oil catch can

[jesum]

anyone done this for our car? i would be interested to know
a) where you mounted the can / tank?
b) where do i attach the hoses?

thanks.

[VWindahouse]

I'm going to have a crack at installing this one for a MK4 Golf GTI this weekend

Catch Can Breather Kit, MK4 1.8t - 034 MOTORSPORT (http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-components-18t-catch-can-breather-kit-mk4-18t-p-19167.html)

I will let you know how it goes!!

[jesum]

ok! will wait for your successful results :)

[blackbetty]

im curious as to why you think you will need one?
our vw's normally are fine with the factory arrangement, especially since VW spent time making sure it all worked.
are you consuming oil and suspect its coming out as vapour via the pcv?
if so, i'd investigate the reason behind this.
unless your car is heavily modified and its always in the higher rev range, in which case you'll need one.

or you have an old chrysler....:P

[anthony_VWJET]

im curious as to why you think you will need one?
our vw's normally are fine with the factory arrangement, especially since VW spent time making sure it all worked.
are you consuming oil and suspect its coming out as vapour via the pcv?
if so, i'd investigate the reason behind this.
unless your car is heavily modified and its always in the higher rev range, in which case you'll need one.

or you have an old chrysler....:P

Read and learn..
• View topic - Carbon build up (http://www.eurorevolution.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=239)

[VWindahouse]

im curious as to why you think you will need one?
our vw's normally are fine with the factory arrangement, especially since VW spent time making sure it all worked.
are you consuming oil and suspect its coming out as vapour via the pcv?
if so, i'd investigate the reason behind this.
unless your car is heavily modified and its always in the higher rev range, in which case you'll need one.

or you have an old chrysler....:P

Do you class a Phase 3 tune which more than "Doubles" the factory HP output a heavily modified car???

[Guy_H]

Carbon build up is not an issue on a Polo GTI with port injection - It is however a big problem on direct injection cars (like MKV & VI GTI's)

[Jmac]

Ive had plenty of 1.8Ts stripped down due to carbon, here and the UK. Main problem was carbon build up in the oil feed and return pipes, changed plenty of turbos as a result, oh and must not forget a couplke that had missed a few services and then got fresh nice oil and all the carbon made its merry way into the oil pick up in the strainer and the result the oil light stays on and its a sump off to at least clean the strainer or if you are unlucky its a new pump and a set of shells. Also in the field have just looked at a 1.8T Audi which was an APU , so turn it around and you have an AGU, AJL, BAM etc and someone had fitted a new turbo because it had failed and never checked the reason why it failed. So new turbo goes on and fails soon after. On inspection the inside of the turbo oil feed was Clean, as in it had little or no lub. Result another blown turbo. It really pays to check why the failure in the 1st place, anyway moving along , my opinion is the whole range is bad for carbon if they are not serviced regularly and correctly. Im in no way disputing the direct Inj ones are bad , actually i do agree there, i check the cap when i do the service ( oil cap ) and ive seen a few with a fair build up there, so if its bad there how bad is it in the guts???? Hmmm.
By the way Anthony didnt realise when i spoke to you today you got it from 034!! These guys are onto it mate, dealt with them for decades,i actually helped a guy on here JVLR32 on here with his race car, he was looking for a gearbox mod and i knew these guys were heavy into that, followed them for years mate so all good
Jmac

[VWindahouse]

Sorry guys as it turns out there is no fuse box bracket on the Polo's fire wall like there is on the Golf so Jimmy is going to fabricate one for me soon!!! Thanks Jmac.

[jesum]

any progress on this?

[noone]

Well, I've caught up to the idea of a catch can.

I'm intrigued by the 42 Draft Design one (on this page, down a little) (http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categories/products/catchcans.html).

The idea is that fumes / oil / water come from the engine back into the TIP, but this connection is usefull. The catch can collects the crap you don't want in your car.

Interesting reading here (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4655220-42-Draft-Designs-NEW-FSI-Stealth-Oil-Catch-Can-Kit-225)

I'm asking about getting a few in to cut down transport costs, if they respond, I'll let you know...

[ssman]

I have been doing a intake mod which required cutting the forge tip below the port that comes from valve cover and you would not believe the oil/tar gum that was coming into the turbo, catch can goes in tomorrow. I will put up photos tomorrow.

Cheers

[vwthunder]

Cool, cant wait to see pics and how it all goes Van

[ssman]

Ya i have been very busy in the engine bay, massive changes. I have had it running once since the cams went in (Awesome) and hope to be driving on Thursday.

Cant wait

[noone]

Looking forward to an update SS.

Recieved a reply from 42 DD, they are going to get some pricing for me.

I think their product looks good, its amazing the amount of fluid that some people have collected in as little as 1000miles, I cant see how a properly designed catch can will do anything but improve the engine longevitiy (maybe even improve the flow if i get it right).

[jesum]

my catch can just arrived. my problem now is trying to figure out where the hoses go and where to mount the tank. any pointers?

also, now i'm starting to feel paranoid. do i need to open up everything (intercooler, turbo, TIP, PCV etc) to check for tar / sludge???

[noone]

I'll show you, what catchcan are you getting.

[jesum]

a brandless, generic ebay unit. :P i just need something functional.

[noone]

I have not seen one on Ebay I'm happy with (by no means does it mean there is anything wrong with them).

So I am basing my install on a single input, single output design (maintaining 3/4" Connections do minimise flow restrictions).

Here is a pic from Vortex:
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/Update2CatchCanPCVSystem-1.jpg
From this (one of many) thread (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4671445-Catch-can-Question)

Basically, 1 line from join or 2 fresh lines into can, 1 back to PRV (Hockey Puck).

You can run an VTA (Vent to Atmosphere), but from what i've read the connection to the TIP provides some pull of the fumes / fluids.

So thats where i'm headed, as per usual there are a million ideas and a million idiots doing what someone else did without thinking too much about it.

IMO, read the 250 threads on Vortex and do some testing / check it after 10k's.

[vwthunder]

Guess it is nice to make it as simple as possible, venting to atmosphere keeps less hoses in the engine bay

I see on the Vortex, the way it is designed, something goes back to the oil filter ????

Can you get rid of the hockey puck ???

[noone]

VTA means you don't get any pull from the intake vaccum.

Removing the Hockey puck does not seem to be common with recirc designs, but i'm still reading.

When I am the master of Catch Can DIY threads (IE I only know what people have posted) then I'll put up some more info.

My 2c, recirc, leave the hockey puck and get a can that is properly designed, not just a can...

[Greg Roles]

Catchcans all come down to the mechanism inside, that is, just how much oil it actually "catches".

Not that I'm a world expert, but the TDI's suffer dramatically from oil blowby with their high compression, and I have a top end Mann and Hummell Provent and even it struggles to pull all the oil out of the blowby. The generic ones you see on ebay do very little, but adding some thick stainless scouring pads will help the oil condense and settle to the bottom. Just don't pack it too tight, it has to flow! The next step are the nicer ones from 42DD and Allards in the UK, both of which I'd love to get a sample of and test against the purpose built Provent. Allards seem to be a cheap yet possibly nice bit of kit, worth investigating, but I can't vouch for the effectiveness. I'm keen on a 42 DD cat back to be honest, so if you're not in a rush, perhaps we could combine and organise a 42 DD group buy.

Venting to atmosphere is illegal, and as I've played around with the oil blowby extensively, I have to say it's tremendously smelly at idle, enough to make you and those around you ill. I'd HIGHLY suggest venting the remainder back into the inlet, or at the very worst into the exhaust as the older muscle cars used to do. This is still an illegal mod these days.

Finally take it from me you really need to make sure your blowby system can flow the sheer amount of blowby gas, for my first early attempt saw me force oil out my turbo seals, which sure made for a bit of smoke. Be sure to keep your plumbing big, and remember elbows and the like often go down considerably in size, and a lot of hose etc that is readily available at the hardware will melt or in the very least deform in the engine bay heat. I spent eons trying all manner of hose until I stumbled upon the nice silicon stuff that is both flexible, oil and heat resistant. It's indeed tough to find, and I've wasted a lot of money at specific hose suppliers in my quest.

Interested to see how you go, but yeah, it's a highly recommended mod, especially in the oilers.

[noone]

Thanks Greg. I had been reading a thread about the Mann and Hummell ones, they look pretty good and I agree the catch can is much more of a requirement on the Diesels than Petrol.

I think the 42DD ones look great, come standard with 3/4" barbs, so should be good to go.
The reason I'm going the 42DD path is they have a flow emulation (if only 2 pics) on the Vortex site. It does not give you all the answers, but thats much more than I have seen on any of the other brands. I don't think sticking a can onto some tubing is going to do much, as it no doubt heats up, there is less option for condensation, so down to the design. the little grills in the 42DD ones seem to allow the gasses to collect and drip down somewhere. Also the asking price for the Stealth unit is very cost effective for what it is IMO.

Let me know if you are interested in a can, I can inquire into the catback as well, it may go down the path of being a big groupbuy (which I would then have to hand over to someone as I live in a 1 bedroom appt)... Hoping to get them landed and distributed for around $150 a piece, but until I have a quote, I may be dreaming.

[vwthunder]

it may go down the path of being a big groupbuy (which I would then have to hand over to someone as I live in a 1 bedroom appt)... Hoping to get them landed and distributed for around $150 a piece, but until I have a quote, I may be dreaming.

I would be interested in one if you went ahead

[ssman]

Almost finished, pics tomorrow

[Plautos]

This is a big problem in my car.... I'm going for my third setup and I'm not sure if the problem will be solved.

[noone]

What issues have you been facing Plautos? Any thoughts on the 42DD one?

If it flows well and still catches, can only do good from what I've read, but keeping the flow could be difficult.

[noone]

FYI, group buy in For Sale area for 42DD cans. Please express interest there, may help get the numbers together.

[Plautos]

Oil vapor condensing where it not should... I’m not sure if the problem is in the cylinder head, I think it is not deflecting the oil correctly.

I notice the major vapor flow come from the cylinder head, so I decided to connect the head’s breather to the engine block and from the engine block I don’t know what to do yet… maybe I will use a breather or a catch can.

In this picture one hose delivers vapor and fluids from the cylinder head and the other hose is the exit which I don't know what to do yet.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7132/img1756b.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/img1756b.jpg/)



What issues have you been facing Plautos? Any thoughts on the 42DD one?

If it flows well and still catches, can only do good from what I've read, but keeping the flow could be difficult.

[noone]

So I take it you don't want to route it back into the intake.

I've read a few people feeding it into the dump / exhaust on an angle to help get rid of the fumes, makes sense if done right...

I'm going to make a dodgy DIY can to see what happens, welcome the siver bullet;
http://www.boxvox.net/images/2008/01/06/sappora.jpg

[ssman]

Few pics: http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/008-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/007-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/009-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/013-1.jpg

Used a drift catch can re-polished it, added a drain petcock with a hose run to the bottom of car so when I need to drain it drop a pan on the ground and drain it, easy as. Put in a check valve to stop the boosted pressure from back charging the tank.
And than added bling.

Finished engine bay:
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/014-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/015-1.jpg

Hope you all approve

[vwthunder]

Wow that engine bay is looking so sexy, you must have been a busy man

Can I ask how you run the Diverter valve on fully venting.
My car idles funny when venting to atmosphere, if you come up to a set of lights, say at 4000rpm and push the clutch in, it will stall

[vwthunder]

Oh also is that some kind of boost device in the front on the engine bay, I see 2 knobs lol

[ssman]

dump valve is a struggle right now might have to vent it back to tip and yes it is.

[vwthunder]

Have you played around with the boost, how does it go, it is the one the guy on Vortex is selling (Boost Machine or something)??

[ssman]

Havent got it sorted yet (mod shack)

[Whubbsie]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/015-1.jpg

Hope you all approve

HOLYT CRAP MATE!!! seriously nice... wish I knew how to do that

[Plautos]

About the 42DD catch can, it is a good looking piece, it looks very well projected, but where is the space to put it? I’m removing lots of stuff from the engine bay, but I’m not being able to clear a big site for a descent catch can.

Returning the fumes to the intake is not an option… I removed the entire stock breathing system to clear the intake of any impurity.

Dump the fumes to the exhaust pipe is in my opinion the best choice.

I use it in my other car and I had tried to use it in the Polo, but in the Polo it was restricting… the valve was holding 0,2bar inside the engine.. It was doing more harm them good. The solution was to use two valves… but once again I have the lack of space.



So I take it you don't want to route it back into the intake.

I've read a few people feeding it into the dump / exhaust on an angle to help get rid of the fumes, makes sense if done right...

I'm going to make a dodgy DIY can to see what happens, welcome the siver bullet;
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

[noone]

Best space would be where the secondary pump is / was. well, I have not planed it, but that's the only space I've made for it.

[Plautos]

HOLYT CRAP MATE!!! seriously nice... wish I knew how to do that

X2 very cool!! nice job!