Crafter 2.5 Particulate filter

[goober]

howdy, I run a fleet of VW 2007 Crafters 2.5 in Adelaide and we are now experiencing particulate filter problems, the dealer has told me they are not a warranty item and to pay $4700 is ridiculous. I had my own mechanics take one off and we heated up the blocked front portion with a oxy torch without melting anything and from the rear end they blew compressed air.....the filter unblocked and then we made a funnel to run compressed air until the unit blew out all the particles of soot.
The vehicles are used for city work and are rentas.......
has anyone else here had problems with the DPF, and I am wondering when the golf diesels etc start to have problems I can see that people will remove the DPF and take the guts out of the unit.

[phaeton]

Has your company used the correct oil in the Crafter?

[Transporter]

How many km's have you done? Also as phaeton pointed out, using right oil is vital!

[h100vw]

Removing the filter alone isn't the way to go. There's already lots of DPF deleting going on in the UK. Put it into google and see what you get.

Gavin

[goober]

Has your company used the correct oil in the Crafter?

yes, we have been using the recommended oil by VW, apparently its the short trips that does the clogging up, if it were owner/ operator I could understand but being renters its hard to tell someone that when a light appears.....drive at this speed for this amount of time etc.........thus rather than pay $4700 for a newbie the cleaning of the unit is what we reckon works.

But talking to the service dept at VW adelaide, they have told me that they are seeing many DPF vehicles come in on limp mode and having to tell an owner they need to pay 000's to rectify the problem is causing grief at the counter

[phaeton]

Yeah short trips with diesels with DPF is not good.

Thats why if I do buy my next VW it will be a petrol.

[Cousin]

Subaru is having exactly the same problem with their new diesels. Too many suburban plodders.
Cars are coming in at 7,000 ks with the engine light on. DPF is nackered because they're just putting around the shops and kids to school.
It's going to cause a massive swing away from diesel if a fix isn't thought out.


M

[bushnut]

there was a few problems with early DPFs but newer DPFs were installed in later models i think we are on a third generation DPF now there is also a software update to improve regeneration times not having to drive on highways for 20 Min's to clear out the DPFs/ regeneration and there is also a software update for stop start driving such as courier drivers stopping and starting but is rarely done as Volkswagen group Australia has reservation's of this one as it is a final solution and can cause blockages. if its a early DPF i would expect VGA to replace it as a good will warranty claim. if you've driven it round with the DPF light on the dash for some time over 500K's or so VGA will probably deny the claim as the manual says to take to a vw dealer as soon as possible excess driving will cause damage to the DPF the engine control unit will log the kilometers when the light came on the dash so the ks driven can be seen . also i think there a recall going on at the moment for this software update depending on Vin range. there is also problems with the DPF pressure sensor that reads how full the DPF is by means of reading the airflow through the DPF pipe at the front of the DPF and one at the rear works out the difference of air flow from front to rear these can be faulting not reading correctly and bring the light on early meaning a visit to the vw workshop. when in the workshop we do a forced regeneration with diagnostic tester. if you have a fleet of them kick up a bit of a fuss and say i own x amount of these vehicles am looking at replacing them with new and wont be buying Volkswagens in future and mention Mercedes as there the same van with different engine but allot more money. if you have no joy with the dealer contact VGA themselves. hope this helps you

[The_Hawk]

third generation DPF now there is also a software update to improve regeneration times not having to drive on highways for 20 Min's to clear out the DPFs/ regeneration

Seems I have been living under a rock, can someone link me to a thread or some info on what this whole DPF thing is and how your supposed to look after it (being that we are now driving a shiny new TDI with a DPF)??
Two or three days a week it will get a decent run but in reality the rest of the week it is stop / start traffic to the shops and back... Should we be doing something special?

[goober]

there was a few problems with early DPFs but newer DPFs were installed in later models i think we are on a third generation DPF now there is also a software update to improve regeneration times not having to drive on highways for 20 Min's to clear out the DPFs/ regeneration and there is also a software update for stop start driving such as courier drivers stopping and starting but is rarely done as Volkswagen group Australia has reservation's of this one as it is a final solution and can cause blockages. if its a early DPF i would expect VGA to replace it as a good will warranty claim. if you've driven it round with the DPF light on the dash for some time over 500K's or so VGA will probably deny the claim as the manual says to take to a vw dealer as soon as possible excess driving will cause damage to the DPF the engine control unit will log the kilometers when the light came on the dash so the ks driven can be seen . also i think there a recall going on at the moment for this software update depending on Vin range. there is also problems with the DPF pressure sensor that reads how full the DPF is by means of reading the airflow through the DPF pipe at the front of the DPF and one at the rear works out the difference of air flow from front to rear these can be faulting not reading correctly and bring the light on early meaning a visit to the vw workshop. when in the workshop we do a forced regeneration with diagnostic tester. if you have a fleet of them kick up a bit of a fuss and say i own x amount of these vehicles am looking at replacing them with new and wont be buying Volkswagens in future and mention Mercedes as there the same van with different engine but allot more money. if you have no joy with the dealer contact VGA themselves. hope this helps you

Agreed, I still think that here in Aust it will be an issue that will cause grief. If someone purchases a Hyundai i20 diesel (of which i was going to buy 15 of them as renta cars) butI know Europcar in Aust has purchased them, but should the light come on and the need for regeneration occur our limited "freeway" systems means that one cannot get the exhaust hot enough to perform the task....thus limp mode occurs. And for a car costing say 20k AUD a DPF would make up 30% of the purchase price.....this alone is madness. I also know that diesel in Aust is of a different grade than the EU and whether this changes the problem I dont know.

In the end fleet owners will have to decide or pressure the manufacturers with Euro 5 emission systems but clearly this entire thing has the hallmarks of a bureaucrat without thinking the average owner's needs. And what happens when these DPF's start to hit the second hand market for the second hand buyer will invariably not look at regeneration processes.

personally I reckon its a mistake, VW have not assisted because the regen process was not completed as per their instruction.....like derr, how would a 1 day renter worry about it, just keep driving and let someone else worry about it.

[phaeton]

Seems I have been living under a rock, can someone link me to a thread or some info on what this whole DPF thing is and how your supposed to look after it (being that we are now driving a shiny new TDI with a DPF)??
Two or three days a week it will get a decent run but in reality the rest of the week it is stop / start traffic to the shops and back... Should we be doing something special?

Hi Aaron :)

One major tip is to use the correct oil specs which can be found in the manual I think there are only 2 or 3 oil suppliers that actually comply with manufacturer specs the Genuine Oil, Penrite & elf I think Transporter has mentioned.

Using the wrong oil will block the DPF.

Second tip read the manual ;)

[The_Hawk]

The van is likely to only be serviced by VW (or a VW specialist) so oil shouldn't be an issue.


Second tip read the manual ;)

As for the manual, I had a quick flip through pretty much all of it and didn't notice anything, but to be fair I wasn't having a good read. I'm planning to pull it out and have a proper read through, although everytime I go to grab it I realise my wife is out with the car (and the manual) :P

[Greg Roles]

DPF blockage occurs both from soot, and from oil ash. I'd HIGHLY recommend anyone with a DPF gets a Provent or similar high quality oil blowby seperator, and plumbs it inline from the tappet cover and inlet , as there is a lot of oil vapour entering the stock VW inlet. Since hobbling my oil blowby via a Provent, then into the exhaust ( illegal ) I've not had a single regen happen that I'm aware of. It's probably doing them automatically every several hundred kms or whatever the minimum default is, but before I was getting an obvious, higher idle one every week or so. Has to be something in that. Also, you HAVE to drive the thing hard enough to get the EGT's up, and thus burn off the soot from the DPF. An EGT gauge is a valuable tool there, for now I drive at higher revs, and avoid off boost sub 1800rpm at all times. I never hit 6th on the freeway, and am often in third at 50-60kph. Lugging it along sub 1800rpm is producing a TON of soot. Not sure how good the DSG box is at doing this.

From what I understand of the actual makeup of the VW DPF, blowing it out in reverse will be a temporary fix at best, and if you do indeed need to start getting DPF's replaced, would highly recommend looking into DPF delete tunes which give both more power AND more economy, or upgrading to a decent aftermarket DPF from specific manufacturers such as Donaldson. This is going to be a huge issue for the current gen of diesels, and it's why I've been going on and on about Provents for some time now.

[Transporter]

The van is likely to only be serviced by VW (or a VW specialist) so oil shouldn't be an issue.



As for the manual, I had a quick flip through pretty much all of it and didn't notice anything, but to be fair I wasn't having a good read. I'm planning to pull it out and have a proper read through, although everytime I go to grab it I realise my wife is out with the car (and the manual) :P

As Greg said, install Provent.
I suggest, drive normally, don't turn the engine off if you make very short trips (if possible), use premium diesel with the higher CN and use diesel fuel additive. I use Morey Diesel Engine Smoke Killer everytime I buy fuel and at every oil change I put bottle of WURTH CR Diesel additive or LiquiMoly Diesel SpeedTec in the tank.

[Greg Roles]

Absolutely, good point Miro, I'd NEVER run standard diesel in my DPF equipped car. BP Ultimate or
Vortex ( when BP not available ) for me.

[Cousin]

Absolutely, good point Miro, I'd NEVER run standard diesel in my DPF equipped car. BP Ultimate or
Vortex ( when BP not available ) for me.

According to the Caltex website they have 65 outlets with Vortex diesel (as opposed to diesel or biodiesel) in Victoria

Sadly BP have this on their website,

" Release date: 18 May 2010
BP Ultimate Diesel was launched in Australia in 2007 and since then it has become a favourite with many motorists in Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia.

In late 2009 Ultimate Diesel was temporarily withdrawn from the market as BP developed changes to the manufacturing process.

These changes are now complete and a modified version of Ultimate Diesel is to be reintroduced to the market in Queensland and South Australia during May and Western Australia in June.

Results from BP’s in-house testing facility in Bochum, Germany, combined with local independent testing confirm that Ultimate Diesel still offers all the benefits you would expect from BP Ultimate advanced performance fuels. This includes improved fuel economy and reduced emissions compared to regular diesel.

Customers seeking more information should contact the BP customer service helpline 1300 1300 27.
More information from

Jamie Jardine,
Media Relations Manager: 03 9268 3534 or 0410 479 002 "


What seems to be the problem with NSW and VIC?

Might give her a call tommorrow.



M

[Cousin]

Txt Jamie asking when Vic will get Ultimate diesel, reply back "Next year, providing we can secure tank space".

Looks like Caltex is the only option for us Mexicans at the moment.


(and I think it's 'him' not her)



M

[Greg Roles]

I used Caltex Vortex the entire time BP Ultimate was out nationally, and didn't have an increase in my apparent lack of obvious DPF regens - so I'd rate it as good as BP soot wise, and didn't notice any performance difference swapping back to BP.

[Silver Caravelle]

I wonder if the ' bush mechanics' out there (including me) will eventually expand on the mentioned proposition of mechanically sucking or blowing out the contents when the DPF becomes blocked.

Makes me wonder whether the DPF could have an inspection plate cut in and added, so in the event of a blockage, the inspection plate could be undone and contents could be sucked out. Could this be possible? I hate this notion that something as solid as a DPF cannot be recondtioned and all those old bush mechanic and engineering skils are slowing disappearing!

Even if this had be done every 100 K or so, is better than forking thousands of dollars. Or as you all mention the DPF delete path.

Regards,

Scott

[goober]

I wonder if the ' bush mechanics' out there (including me) will eventually expand on the mentioned proposition of mechanically sucking or blowing out the contents when the DPF becomes blocked.

Makes me wonder whether the DPF could have an inspection plate cut in and added, so in the event of a blockage, the inspection plate could be undone and contents could be sucked out. Could this be possible? I hate this notion that something as solid as a DPF cannot be recondtioned and all those old bush mechanic and engineering skils are slowing disappearing!

Even if this had be done every 100 K or so, is better than forking thousands of dollars. Or as you all mention the DPF delete path.

Regards,

Scott

Scott, we tried that as well, we cut a piece the size of a packet of B&H extra mild 25's on the side of the filter then chisled out the contents.....ony problem once the hole was welded was the back pressure pipe could not register any backpressure and the ECU went back to limp mode, when we had the ECU recoded to accept the new parameter (told the dealer it was a sports exhaust without the DPF) the Crafter ran well except at idle it belched out blue smoke which generally means rings are buggered...........leak down test and compression test came up trumps, we put on a DPF that had been cleaned with wide flange oxy torch and compressed air..........no limp mode and no blue smoke.........thus after spending a week with my mechanics scratching our heads we reckon the simple solution is to burn the soot. Considering its a renter we cant expect every customer to abide by the instructions set out by VW.

All said and done, I still reckon it will be a problem down the track for anyone buying a used diesel with DPF or someone who doesnt always read the manual when taking delivery of a new one........and no the dealer/ salesperson doesnt go thru the finer points regarding this issue.

Isuzu is somewhat more insane in that the vehicle needs to be pulled to the side of the road and run for 20 minutes..........tell that to a renter!!!!....I had a 3 tonne tipper delivered and when told what needed to be done I told them to take it back as it defied logic and also breached section 74 of the trades practices act....not fit for its purpose. It now makes sense why Isuzu put all the bells and whistles on their trucks in comparison to Hino and Mitsubishi (who are yet to comply with DPF)...Isuzu needed to sell the DPF with toys.....wtf

[goober]

and yes running an oil with low "saps" is mandatory for anything with a DPF

[Seano]

Delete the DPF and replace the catalytic converter with one of these diesel particulate filters used in the under ground mining industry (where particulate build-up is a BIG BIG deal). They make one in the size required for the Crafter and Transporter.....cost is about $1,500 per unit. This way you'll stay legal for exhaust pipe emission which is what the DPF is all about.

Diesel Catalytic Converter Diesel Particulate Filter Catalyst (http://www.microfreshfilters.com.au/mining-diesel-filters/diesel-particulate-filters.html)

They are also fitted to some of the diesel LPG conversions to control the potentially excessive soot generation...

[sh|tbmxrider]

Isuzu is somewhat more insane in that the vehicle needs to be pulled to the side of the road and run for 20 minutes..........tell that to a renter!!!!....I had a 3 tonne tipper delivered and when told what needed to be done I told them to take it back as it defied logic and also breached section 74 of the trades practices act....not fit for its purpose. It now makes sense why Isuzu put all the bells and whistles on their trucks in comparison to Hino and Mitsubishi (who are yet to comply with DPF)...Isuzu needed to sell the DPF with toys.....wtf

Isuzu are insance with that, agreed... I know that Isuzu are going from the DPF for Euro4 to a OXY-Kat for Euro5... The particles will go thru a oxidation process, and makes them harmless, apparenly... and no need to 'trap' them, if you will.

MAN have been running PM-Kats on all there Euro4's, and we haven't had one block up in Aus.... Because instead of trapping the particles and burning them off, its constantly regenerating, and no chance of a blockage. Euro5 under 340hp we are going to OXY-Kats, 360hp-540hp were going to the dreaded AdBlue(SCR)

Given that MAN is owned by VW, you would think that they would be looking within for better solutions...

[Altered Sprinter]

VW Crafter DPF can be programed by your local dealer for a forced DPF regeneration As to carbon soot contamination this can be reduced to a low Nox at the tailpipe of <0.3 Providing you use a Ultra low Diesel 10/ppm with a 51 cetane rating of which is available in most Australian states.
be aware of Winter grade fuels refereed to as Mountain an Alpine ULSD this is not Ultra ULSD.
Additive as to an upper cylinder lubricants are still required to reduce carbon build up in the intake valve area and carbonizing of injector jet flows.
This fully covered under your existing warranty with VW providing you use flow guard Mercedes or VW renamed brand
OILS LOW SAPS MY YEAR JULY 2006 JUST MAKE SURE YOU USE THE CORRECT FULL SYNTHETIC OILS SUITABLE OR A DIESEL TURBO ENGINE WITH EGR AND DPF
5/40W 10/40 esp LOW SAPS LOOK FOR SCR IF PRESENT DO NOT USE.
0W-40 OILS ARE THE TOP OF THE RANGE BUT HARD TO FIND FOR A CRAFTIER ENGINE 4INLINE OR 5 INLINE: CASTROL EDGE SPORT 0W-40 VW 502 00/505 00 fore fills the former VW 503.01
As many oils have the same API rating 0W 40 beware of which variant you have Euro 3 Euro 4 as an example Euro 3 is rated 229.5 Euro 4 is rated 229.51 with different ACEA ratings.
Euro 5 is now available in Australia from July 2009 through to July 2011 after Euro 6 EEV kicks in.till 2016
The DPF will no longer be used after 2016 as to using an exclusive water cooling system via the EGR system.
Caltex Vortex Diesel (http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=BQ7c7epGVTL78CoSevwOZ2fSDApST8dQBvLrwnRLAjbcBoL tKEAEYASDM1e0TOABQg8e69_3_____AWCliJ6AoAGgAeLkg_AD sgEYd3d3LnZ3d2F0ZXJjb29sZWQub3JnLmF1ugEJNzI4eDkwX2 FzyAEB2gE_aHR0cDovL3d3dy52d3dhdGVyY29vbGVkLm9yZy5h dS9uZXdyZXBseS5waHA_cD01MzM5Nzkmbm9xdW90ZT0xqQLkul IbyHavPsgCzuzdEagDAcgDF-gD4Qb1AwABAMQ&num=1&sig=AGiWqtytfPLtOqooDc6euL8J9bavQfIPsQ&client=ca-pub-3594199019129131&adurl=http://pixel2424.everesttech.net/2424/rq/3/c_8f17b6eb22678e59911aa9513e9d7e01_4794844228/url%3Dhttp%253A//www.caltex.com.au/ProductsAndServices/Pages/VortexPremiumFuels.aspx&nm=4) 10pp/m or less with factory de-foaming and cleaning additives from refinery to pump. After three full tanks of 10/ppm your mileage for fuel economy as to both oils an fuel that meet the M11 FE standards should return at 110 Kilometers an hour with a GVM 3500 KG load of 6.9 liters per hundred kilometers. or 9.5 as a Urban terrorist.
Richard

[chopper1]

my dpf was blocked.
I took it out and filled with degreaser then let it sit for a day.
I then got a hi pressure cleaner and cleaned it out. there was a lot of gunk that came out and i re did the process.
Now no more limp mode or problems.

[gokhanyakin]

The vehicles used in the city are slow and the stop is used because the exhaust does not reach enough heat because the dpf filter is available. It is also necessary to run for 20 minutes and ensure that the exhaust reaches sufficient heat to be cleaned. the exhaust dfp filter that reaches enough heat will burn and exhaust the institutions in the filter. when you start to hear the smell of exhaust rubber burns, your dpf filter is being cleaned. After a while, the dpf filter will burn excess fuel and damage the injectors because of exhaust gas from the exhaust. this is the event we call the land event.
Best regrads.

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[junglebus]

Yep my 2011 Crafty 2.5 had a blocked DPF vw quoted $6000 for a new one inc labour , I found a guy that replaced the sensor and washed out the filter but the core was damaged so he found an after market filter $3000 fitted fine , it’s been 2 years now it’s starting to play up again, what about the egr? Clean or replace?