Golf R vs WRX vs Evo vs Megane RS250

[First VW]

Gents,

I know this is a bit out of the blue but I am interested in knowing what other people think of the above comparison? I read the comparison between Golf R vs RS250 vs Focus RS and its really interesting on the outcome.

Cheers. :cool:

[G-rig]

Golf R is the best.

[team_v]

The thing is, a Golf R isn't a pure track machine.
It's just a glorified AWD daily and as such will never be on par with a proper track spec'd RS250 or Evo 10 etc.
You lose all of the tracky feel and gain creature comforts like sat nav, leather seats, xenon lights, airbags and have a 4Mo AWD system that isn't as effective as a full time AWD system.

[Corey_R]

It completely comes down to your requirements.

All rounder? The Golf R hands down.
If you have specific requirements such as a track day car, or a need to draw attention to yourself via boy-racer-look body kits, or having a car which "full-sic-doof-doof-car-stereo installers" are already intimately knowledgable with so you can install your 5000kW stereo in, then one of the other three is possibly better suited :)

[G-rig]

The OP was fairly vague and so was I..

Different goals and different markets.

Depends if you want to look like a boy racer or have an awesome all rounder.

[REXman]

Well coming from owning very quick Jap cars to a quickish German car.. I still say the R. No question in my mind. Thats why Im here. :P

I consider many things when buying a car. Exterior, Interior, Performance, Brand and Image for example. My needs for sheer quality and refinement have outweighed my needs for sheer speed. I mean you couldnt take the Megan RS anywhere and be taken seriously. Doesnt that have a roll cage standard?

A lot of my past cars have had Strut tower braces, big turbo's/TMIC and FMIC's and did high 11 and 12's by the time I was finished with them. But you see, you can get a datsun 180 whack in an SR20DET in it and that will smash the lot.

Gimme enough straight line mumbo, whack a smile on my face while doing the deed, and build it like its going to be used for shelter in WWIII.

R baby all the way.

When I was a bit younger I couldnt see why you would want an M3 over a heavily done up skyline, or a WRX thats worked with $10K on it.. Or because a 200SX with $10K spent on it will pull a mid 12 easily. And sound mighty raw doing so.

But you actually drive an M3, and feel the WAY that it does a 13 flat quarter.. its different.

Its a different set of cars mentioned here but the idea is still very similar, as mentioned by others above.

Some people talk about the track.. sorry but other than some quarter mile runs, I wouldnt use my only car to race on a track.

If I had that sort of coin, Id get a Carrera 4S or an ELISE as my track car and be done with it in fantasy land.

But some people might very well be hardcore tracksters, in which case these cars would be completely stripped out etc.. different story again.

[REXman]

PS is the Ralliart and WRX in the RS250's competition, or is it in the EVO, STI and R market??

[REXman]

The thing is, a Golf R isn't a pure track machine.
It's just a glorified AWD daily and as such will never be on par with a proper track spec'd RS250 or Evo 10 etc.
You lose all of the tracky feel and gain creature comforts like sat nav, leather seats, xenon lights, airbags and have a 4Mo AWD system that isn't as effective as a full time AWD system.

a) No need to bag the R cause you own a tiguan.

b) The 4WD in the R is actually very good.

[team_v]

a) No need to bag the R cause you own a tiguan.

b) The 4WD in the R is actually very good.

How about realising that your golf isn't the "be all and end all" and stop trying to stir ***** in every thread.
It's just a normal Golf with AWD and all the trimmings that you can get on the lower models.

Note how nowhere did i say that the Tiguan was better yet you still jumped to that conclusion.


If the 4Mo system in the R was so good, then why would APR have a solution to fix the issues with it?

[G-rig]

How about realising that your golf isn't the "be all and end all" and stop trying to stir ***** in every thread.
It's just a normal Golf with AWD and all the trimmings that you can get on the lower models.

Note how nowhere did i say that the Tiguan was better yet you still jumped to that conclusion.


If the 4Mo system in the R was so good, then why would APR have a solution to fix the issues with it?

What fix and what issues? The R comes with Haldex Gen 4 which is the best out there. You can't get AWD on the lower models so it's a bit unique that way.

Pretty good overall package and i'd prefer one to an Evo or Megane considering all things.

[team_v]

What fix and what issues? The R comes with Haldex Gen 4 which is the best out there. You can't get AWD on the lower models so it's a bit unique that way.

Pretty good overall package and i'd prefer one to an Evo or Megane considering all things.

It fixes the power delivery and transfer with the Haldex switch.
To clarify, yes it does have AWD which set's it apart from the normal golf range but it will almost never get used to it's potential.
Hell i couldn't even get the Mk6 GTI to loose control at the driver training day.

It is a good overall package but it isn't "the greatest car ever made" which most new Golf R owners tend to believe (especailly one in particular)

I would probably prefer one over the renault and jap cars as well but i would get a GTI over the R purely becasue there is no need unless you are going to track in, in which case you get a lotus or an MX5.

[G-rig]

I think youll find the switch is for the older Gen 2 controller. The new Gen 4 haldex can shift as much as 100% power to the rear wheels in certain circumstances.

Anyway I agree the GTI is fine for around town and may not get the most out of the R unless you are on the track.

[simonm]

Anyway I agree the GTI is fine for around town and may not get the most out of the R unless you are on the track.

Or you live in wet/icy climates, travel to the snow, use dirt/gravel country roads etc. where AWD gives you a genuine advantage.

[team_v]

I think youll find the switch is for the older Gen 2 controller. The new Gen 4 haldex can shift as much as 100% power to the rear wheels in certain circumstances.

Anyway I agree the GTI is fine for around town and may not get the most out of the R unless you are on the track.

The Gen 4 can shift 100% to the rear's but you cannot control how it does so on a stock R.
I believe the remote control (which works on Gen 4 Haldex unit's) is in place to allow you to specify the power split ratio but am happy to be proven wrong.

see here: http://www.goapr.com.au/products/Info_gen4.pdf




Or you live in wet/icy climates, travel to the snow, use dirt/gravel country roads etc. where AWD gives you a genuine advantage.

Generally there are no VW dealers in Australian locations with those conditions though.
And if you are in those conditions you won't be using the 188kw to it's potential anyway.

[G-rig]

Gen 4 > Gen 2. But perhaps Guy could chime in.

You can't fit the switch to Gen 4 can you?

[anthony_VWJET]

The Golf R is a great car thats been detuned for our *****ty Australian roads. Cant you just leave it as that?

[simonm]

Generally there are no VW dealers in Australian locations with those conditions though.
And if you are in those conditions you won't be using the 188kw to it's potential anyway.

There are no VW dealers in Canberra? Who did I give my deposit to?

The ACT and surrounding region also has some very nice paved roads for having fun on (Cotter/Tidbinbilla region, coastal roads etc), so I think there's plenty of opportunity to use the 188kw to its potential.

[team_v]

There are no VW dealers in Canberra? Who did I give my deposit to?

The ACT and surrounding region also has some very nice paved roads for having fun on (Cotter/Tidbinbilla region, coastal roads etc), so I think there's plenty of opportunity to use the 188kw to its potential.

And how often do you drive on these roads in these conditions?
It does get cold in Canberra but the roads have never frozen over with a layer of ice on top of them when i have been there.

[Rocket36]

There are roads in Canberra (and surrounds) notorious for being icy in winter... I can attest to that!

[team_v]

There are roads in Canberra (and surrounds) notorious for being icy in winter... I can attest to that!

That's interesting to know.

How often would one drive on these roads at a speed that would require an AWD system?

[triode12]

It fixes the power delivery and transfer with the Haldex switch.
To clarify, yes it does have AWD which set's it apart from the normal golf range but it will almost never get used to it's potential.
Hell i couldn't even get the Mk6 GTI to loose control at the driver training day.

It is a good overall package but it isn't "the greatest car ever made" which most new Golf R owners tend to believe (especailly one in particular)

I would probably prefer one over the renault and jap cars as well but i would get a GTI over the R purely becasue there is no need unless you are going to track in, in which case you get a lotus or an MX5.

I am sure others will disagree (and they are entitled to their opinion as I am to mine)...IMHO, I feel the R is better than the MkVI GTI because it is more fun to drive. It feels closer to a MkV GTI/Pirelli than it is to the MKVI GTI. The MKVI GTI is technically a better car than the MKV but the resultant refinement has made it lose some of the MKV GTI's sparkle (like it is too composed and has lost that "fly by the seat of your pants" feel - one feels slightly disconnected from the car - perhaps one is too cosseted in the MKVI GTI).

The new R has has managed to put the fun back into the drive (which I know defies logic since it too is a MKVI). If I had the money to spend, I would opt for an R with no options rather than a MkVI with options. There is something about the R that stirs the soul when you drive it (like the MKV did). I can't explain it - it just does.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

[G-rig]

The GTI feels faster which could br half the fun (especially after a retune), and not hard to add an exhaust if you want more noise.

Always something faster around, you could be in a plane and it doesn't feel fast.

[Greg Roles]

That's interesting to know.

How often would one drive on these roads at a speed that would require an AWD system?

As often as possible!

[Silverarrow]

To clarify.

The R comes witha Gen 4 Haldex which is a significant improvement over the stock Gen II Haldex (R32), the option offered by Guy is the upgraded Haldex Gen 4 (As there was an upgraded Haldex Gen II for the R32). The same remote switch will work for both.

I have the upgraded "Blue" Gen II controller in my R32 with the remote switch. The upgraded controller offers 3 modes - Stock, Sport and Race - Stock being equivalent to the standard Gen II, each mode in order is more agressive at transferring drive to the rear.

With the Gen 4 Haldex the upgraded version offers Economy, Sport and Race modes, again each being more agressive with torque transfer to the rear, the same switch works with the UPGRADED Gen 4 controller that works with the upgraded Gen II controller. The Gen 4 is the same unit as fitted to the Audi S3.

The Gen 4 (even stock) is an improvement on the previous versions. In my own experience (Gen II stock vs. Gen II Blue) the upgraded controller is primarily worthwhile if you are tracking (given commensense usage on public roads).

I wouldn't position the upgraded controller and switch as a "Fix" for anything, but more of a good upgrade for owners who wish to track the car and gain the additional benefits of more aggressive drive transfer.

However, I am coming from a position of experience rather than bias on this.

[REXman]

How about realising that your golf isn't the "be all and end all" and stop trying to stir ***** in every thread.
It's just a normal Golf with AWD and all the trimmings that you can get on the lower models.

Note how nowhere did i say that the Tiguan was better yet you still jumped to that conclusion.


If the 4Mo system in the R was so good, then why would APR have a solution to fix the issues with it?

But it is a very nice car, and I love everything it is and does. I have no such feelings for the Tiguan.

Its just that I find you trying to bag out the R, when you don't have one, on a pro-VW website. Obviously everyone here enjoys VW. So go to another forum if you want to bag other owners rides out.

-On one hand your talking about not needing AWD cause the conditions never warrant it..? Or you would only use that on a track (again where you dont seem to need it) Not sure where you live but in Sydney, it rains. And having a performance edge will always be fun to me.

-On the other hand your talking about it losing its track feel and being a glorified AWD thats just a base car at heart.

Well guess what buddy, I have created a list just for you.

-Impreza-->WRX---> STI
-Lancer-->Ralliart-->EVO
-Golf-->GTI-->R
-Commodore-->SV6-->SS-->GTS
-BMW 318-->BMW 335-->M3
-C180-->C500-->C63
-Porsche Carrera--> Carrera 4S--> GT3

The performance of the last in each of the lists not being needed unless your on a track. :banana:

Im not going to begin to start on you about the Tiguan again and its position, but please dont come here, expect to bag the R with things (untrue and unsubstantiated) like how bad its AWD is.

Even the R32's (one of the reason I am getting an R) AWD is really good, anyway.

[REXman]

PS, If AWD is not a need of yours.. why did you buy a TIGUAN?

[Karlosovic]

I would probably prefer one over the renault and jap cars as well but i would get a GTI over the R purely becasue there is no need unless you are going to track in, in which case you get a lotus or an MX5.This is kind of my stance for Golf Vs others. I see the GTI/R as taking a preference for refinement in daily living as opposed to an edge on track day Vs other in price-point



GTI is fine for around town and may not get the most out of the R unless you are on the track.Or you live in wet/icy climates, travel to the snow, use dirt/gravel country roads etc. where AWD gives you a genuine advantage.I fully agree with both these sentiments, and as I live in the middle of the biggest city in the country, the GTI will serve me well
Having said that, I have previously lived in the country, with dirt roads, and I can appreciate the extra traction AWD/4x4 can offer


Generally there are no VW dealers in Australian locations with those conditions though.
And if you are in those conditions you won't be using the 188kw to it's potential anyway.This is a stupid comment, however. The first part is just wrong, and the second point is wrong and irrelevent. Regardless of any validity to the claim you don't need power in slippery conditions, who says the same car will only ever be driven in those slippery conditions? Who says you won't want grip one day, and power the next?

Which decends into:
How often would one drive on these roads at a speed that would require an AWD system?How does a guy with a Tiguan call to question the validity of AWD ? Do you live in the outback and therefore "need a four wheel drive" ? Or are you just another .... person .... with a 'Chelsea Tractor' ?

[Corey_R]

Guys, what's the deal with YET ANOTHER Golf GTI/R vs Tiguan discussion?
But I'm actually interested in the answer to the question:

Which decends into:How does a guy with a Tiguan call to question the validity of AWD ? Do you live in the outback and therefore "need a four wheel drive" ? Or are you just another .... person .... with a 'Chelsea Tractor' ?
If AWD wasn't important, then surely a Golf Wagon or Skoda Octavia Wagon would give the same quality, space, and features as the Tiguan, minus the "useless" AWD (in fact, I'm sure both the Octavia and Golf Wagon's have MORE cargo space than the Tiguan).

[team_v]

I chose the Tiguan becasue i will be taking it on soft-roader/snow mountain/rainforrest trips when i break it in, these trips will be happening at least once a year so the benefit of AWD will be realised for me.
I wouldn't be comfortable taking a golf or similar spec'd car on the dirt roads/softroader treks because of their low clearance and the fact that they are FWD only which means i am more likely to get into trouble on the softer roads.

It also comes in a lot cheaper than the "competitors" and provides all the benefits or the higher spec'd cars i.e. AWD, hill assist, Realised safety rating etc.

[G-rig]

Good point, I don't know why you'd buy a tig if you didn't think AWD was worthwhile.

[Corey_R]

Thanks for the reply team_v. So with that guys, since team_v has clarified that he didn't buy the Tiguan in some belief that it is better than a GTI or R for performance, lets put this Tiguan vs GTI/R stuff to bed again :)

[team_v]

No worries Coreying.

[Karlosovic]

I chose the Tiguan becasue i will be taking it on soft-roader/snow mountain/rainforrest tripswhen i break it in, these trips will be happening at least once a year so the benefit of AWD will be realised for me.
I wouldn't be comfortable taking a golf or similar spec'd car on the dirt roads/softroader treks because of their low clearance and the fact that they are FWD only which means i am more likely to get into trouble on the softer roads.

It also comes in a lot cheaper than the "competitors" and provides all the benefits or the higher spec'd cars i.e. AWD, hill assist, Realised safety rating etc.I thought you said those roads don't exist in australia (or maybe just not within range of a VW dealer, which begs the question of how you will get from a dealer to those raods?)

Further to your point of not needing both AWD and power... why are you getting an APR tune?

I must be honest; you sound exactly like every single other person who buys one of these 'soft roader' vehicles and blithers on about how you "plan to go camping" and/or "safety"
I bet you have a 'Baby on Board' sticker, too

[team_v]

I thought you said those roads don't exist in australia (or maybe just not within range of a VW dealer, which begs the question of how you will get from a dealer to those raods?)

Further to your point of not needing both AWD and power... why are you getting an APR tune?

I must be honest; you sound exactly like every single other person who buys one of these 'soft roader' vehicles and blithers on about how you "plan to go camping" and/or "safety"
I bet you have a 'Baby on Board' sticker, too

APR provides better fuel economy over the stock map which was a benefit to me.
It also provides the additional power for overtaking on the single lane highways that i will be driving on to get to said destinations.
I wouldn't consider taking a small FWD car to those locations as they are just not capable enough in my mind.

I am planning for the future hence why i bought a car that i will find suitable for the next 20 years as i see no point throwing money into an asset and taking a depreciation hit then throwing more money into another asset.
I am already booking the first snow mountain holiday trip for August/September.

I'm leaving it at that due to Coreying's request.

[hooba]

On the topic of the AWD in the R, I can confirm that it will kick out the rear end and allow a small amount of oversteer if you try hard enough.

As for the original question, I'm a bit confused as the title and actual post list a different group of cars, some them not available in Australia. For our market, I can't think of any other direct competitors than the STI and EVOLUTION, and they are really more of track focused option.

[oshuyi]

check out fifth gear Scirocco R Vs Focus RS Vs Megane 250 Cup Vs Boxster

YouTube - Fifth Gear: Scirocco R Vs Focus RS Vs Megane 250 Cup Vs Boxster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voY2Eu4JzWw)

[Dubya]

There are roads in Canberra (and surrounds) notorious for being icy in winter... I can attest to that!
... and if you didn't attest we'd be completely convinced of their notoriety!

[Golf Houso]

The haldex AWD was always designed as a money saver, not a performance oriented driveline. It never was meant to be a proper torsen AWD, and no number of blue, red, pink or purple haldex upgrades will change the nature of that. Its good for what it is don't get me wrong, but I'll still pass on a hydraulically controlled 'AWD' which more often than you realise, switches to a FWD...

If you want a real AWD, get an Audi or a Subi/Evo...

[hooba]

The haldex AWD was always designed as a money saver, not a performance oriented driveline. It never was meant to be a proper torsen AWD, and no number of blue, red, pink or purple haldex upgrades will change the nature of that. Its good for what it is don't get me wrong, but I'll still pass on a hydraulically controlled 'AWD' which more often than you realise, switches to a FWD...

If you want a real AWD, get an Audi or a Subi/Evo...

You need to drive the R in order to reassess your opinion on the Haldex. :cool2:

[G-rig]

The Audi S3 comes with Haldex Gen 4 too, does that mean it's not a torsion system, or were you referring to other Audis?

[Corey_R]

I presume he means not the A3/S3/TT series as they're all using Haldex too.

[Golf Houso]

I presume he means not the A3/S3/TT series as they're all using Haldex too.

Correct, they're all East/West drivelines and hence are all Haldex.


You need to drive the R in order to reassess your opinion on the Haldex. :cool2:

I've driven an R32, handled ok but still a massively underwhelming car, still had nothing on a suby and I doubt the R will be any different I'm sorry!!!
A great car let down by its AWD system :(

[G-rig]

Maybe you should drive the R or an upgraded haldex car ;).

[hooba]

Maybe you should drive the R or an upgraded haldex car ;).

You don't need to drive one to be able to offer your opinion on the interwebz. ;)

[Corey_R]

You don't need to drive one to be able to offer your opinion on the interwebz. ;)

Are you SERIOUS!? You mean people are giving opinions on cars they've never driven... that's just unpossible!

[Silverarrow]

Are you SERIOUS!? You mean people are giving opinions on cars they've never driven... that's just unpossible!

Hey this is the interwebz, not only can people have opinions on cars they've never driven they can give you a complete run down of your personality flaws without ever having met you, and PROVE that anything they own is better than anything you will ever own unless it is exactly the same as theirs.

[Mr_Bob]

I've driven an R32, handled ok but still a massively underwhelming car, still had nothing on a suby and I doubt the R will be any different I'm sorry!!!
A great car let down by its AWD system :(

I drove an R32 and it didn't thrill me either.
Drove an R and i'm sold

FYI, my daily drive is a Forester on Tein coilovers, so that's what i'm comparing to
even though the R is 100KG heavier, it felt more balanced and nimble.

[hooba]

Hey this is the interwebz, not only can people have opinions on cars they've never driven they can give you a complete run down of your personality flaws without ever having met you, and PROVE that anything they own is better than anything you will ever own unless it is exactly the same as theirs.

You're just trying to justify your decision / car by allowing me to delude myself into believing that you are insinuating that I / my car are inferior and react by starting an internet argument with you. :toothless:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/Internet_argument-1.jpg

[ccoops79]

I drove an R32 and it didn't thrill me either.
Drove an R and i'm sold

FYI, my daily drive is a Forester on Tein coilovers, so that's what i'm comparing to
even though the R is 100KG heavier, it felt more balanced and nimble.

Hey mate. Are you going for the DSG or manual ? :banana:

[Buller_Scott]

You lose all of the tracky feel and gain creature comforts like sat nav, leather seats, xenon lights, airbags and have a 4Mo AWD system that isn't as effective as a full time AWD system.

that shouldnt matter, though.

i mean, you have all of those creature comforts in a scirocco R which is FWD, and it spanked the evo 10, and simply murdered the STI, around tsukuba raceway.

this forum is funny. i've never seen so much bagging of VW's on any other forum. but i do find the chipped tiguan vs. golf R discussion to be rather interesting.

just a question, REXman- i'm genuinely really interested as ive never tracked my cars nor dragged them... you talk about CRAZY nissan silvias, for example, vs. moderately quick german cars like an M3.... yet over the quarter mile, according to your post, there's only 0.5 of a second in it.

and i've noticed this with other folk as well.... over a quarter mile, is it really a case that a ''worked'' 12.5 second japanese car will be considered BRUTALLY FAST, and yet a german car in close to stock trim, that's only half a second off the pace, will be considered ''quick enough"? for example, i've seen people talk about how brutal big V8's are, and how pathetic all VW's are by comparison...

yet on hsv forums, people are posting VZ HSV clubsport 13.6sec 0-400m times, and polo drivers with just chip/ dump pipe/ fmic are posting high 13's.... resulting in a whopping 0.2-0.3 seconds being the apparent difference between ''brutal V8 power/ acceleration" and "really quite slow, but a nice, comfortable all-round package".

cheers,

scott.

[REXman]

that shouldnt matter, though.

i mean, you have all of those creature comforts in a scirocco R which is FWD, and it spanked the evo 10, and simply murdered the STI, around tsukuba raceway.

this forum is funny. i've never seen so much bagging of VW's on any other forum. but i do find the chipped tiguan vs. golf R discussion to be rather interesting.

just a question, REXman- i'm genuinely really interested as ive never tracked my cars nor dragged them... you talk about CRAZY nissan silvias, for example, vs. moderately quick german cars like an M3.... yet over the quarter mile, according to your post, there's only 0.5 of a second in it.

and i've noticed this with other folk as well.... over a quarter mile, is it really a case that a ''worked'' 12.5 second japanese car will be considered BRUTALLY FAST, and yet a german car in close to stock trim, that's only half a second off the pace, will be considered ''quick enough"? for example, i've seen people talk about how brutal big V8's are, and how pathetic all VW's are by comparison...

yet on hsv forums, people are posting VZ HSV clubsport 13.6sec 0-400m times, and polo drivers with just chip/ dump pipe/ fmic are posting high 13's.... resulting in a whopping 0.2-0.3 seconds being the apparent difference between ''brutal V8 power/ acceleration" and "really quite slow, but a nice, comfortable all-round package".

cheers,

scott.

Hey,

yeah i believe that a descent looking $20K japanese car that does a 11-12 sec 1/4 mile is quick. very quick for the road daily driver.

And 0.5 sec in a quarter mile is a big difference. a 13 and 13.5 for example.. are 2 very different times in drag racing.

Lastly, M3 = huge Coin Japanese fun box = Not so much coin

Cheers, Scott.

[AdamD]

...and i've noticed this with other folk as well.... over a quarter mile, is it really a case that a ''worked'' 12.5 second japanese car will be considered BRUTALLY FAST, and yet a german car in close to stock trim, that's only half a second off the pace, will be considered ''quick enough"?

A good mate of mine has an 11-second Skyline R32 GTR, and brutal is an excellent word to describe it. But it produces all that power relatively high in the rev range (it's running 20+psi with big aftermarket turbos), and doesn't really get into its stride until you've exceeded sane (road legal) speeds. The rest of the time, it feels immensely laggy and slow, and my stock GTI would walk away from it at lower speeds (assuming he's off boost and I have traction).

I'm not for a moment suggesting that all modded Japanese cars are this way - some are amazingly flexible, and huge fun (SR20DET being a great platform to work from) - but it's my observation that, often, mods made in an effort to bring big power gains and murder the standing quarter tend to come at the expense of low-end driveability. The VWs we're talking about are just so flexible and urgent down low as-is, I'm always impressed. They feel accessibly fast without being so quick that you must have a track to appreciate them - which, for me, is perfect.

[OilBurna]

priced for 42k for the Cup - 47k for the Trophee with Recaro sports front seats. Xenons are optional, can switch ESP of for track mode. 184kw. Yes bluetooth and I Pod connect is std.

Renault - HOME MEGANE R.S. 250 CUP (http://www.renault.com.au/cars/meganers/home.html)

[Prodigy]

priced for 42k for the Cup - 47k for the Trophee with Recaro sports front seats. Xenons are optional, can switch ESP of for track mode. 184kw. Yes bluetooth and I Pod connect is std.

Renault - HOME MEGANE R.S. 250 CUP (http://www.renault.com.au/cars/meganers/home.html)

Jeez, i like the look of that and priced decently too.

[dave_r]

Jeez, i like the look of that and a priced decently too.
Ewww, looks like the HSV astra! But I do like the brakes etc. I think the R for the price it is and being the top performance model, should have a bit more attention given for items such as the brakes. Whether they work better or not, I'm not sure but a nice set of big calipers just finish a car off IMO.

PS, their spec sheet says Recaro's are also optional?

[Prodigy]

Ewww, looks like the HSV astra! But I do like the brakes etc. I think the R for the price it is and being the top performance model, should have a bit more attention given for items such as the brakes. Whether they work better or not, I'm not sure but a nice set of big calipers just finish a car off IMO.

PS, their spec sheet says Recaro's are also optional?

It's not that bad, a lot better looking than the Astra..

I agree though Dave, the R would look hot with a nice set of big red Brembo's on it. The red callipers on the rex looked great.

[dave_r]

It's not that bad, a lot better looking than the Astra..
Not a hard feat hehe


the R would look hot with a nice set of big red Brembo's on it.
Nah big silver ones!

[ethosguy]

Guys,
Contant AWD doesn't mean drive to all wheels all the time - it's subject to the differentials...
My 03 WRX: APS 210kw, Whiteline handling package including a performance oriented wheel alignment and standard differentials will given the wrong driver inputs...
spin the inside front wheel mid corner and not accelerate
power-on understeer...

A throttle lift, brake jab or delicate modulation can help depending on the situation...watch WRC footage to see how they manage mid corner understeer; you'll see the front suspension dip slightly...

Driving technique requires a late and abrupt turn under brakes to unsettle the rear to control understeer. This is tricky to get right because if turn in speed is sensitive - too slow and the weight transfer doesn't happen and poor drive, too late/fast and plough understeer past the apex corner over cooked

Both conditions are frustrating leaving a seemingly eternal wait for drive. Get it right though, and corner exit feels fantastic and fast...
In many regards a front driver requires the same technique and suffers the same limitations but, ultimately, cant deliver the 'I've been launched' feeling. IMO.

Mechanical correction for these conditions, Tight centre and front diff settings compromise daily driveability with tyre scrub during tight manovering. I've not been prepared to compromise to tune these behaviours out.

Electronic/electro-hydraulic smart diffs have become the accepted solution.

Haldex 4 is pre-emptive; electro-hydraulic pump primed and switches according to a variety of sensor inputs, namely throttle and is unlike earlier versions; differential speed primed.
The aftermarket controller resets the speed and amount of torque to te rear depending how fast (& far?) the throttle is modulated.

I don't agree with the AWD and/or Controller is only a benifit for track use, in fact I'd argue it has more application on the street where entry speed (commitment) can be lower where the grip and rear bias can be use to punch out of a corner.

I'm guessing the rear drive dis-engages when torque deminishes which ultimately, in theory could reduce braking performance but ESP/ABS will be overiding anyway so probably moot...

$60000 questions is what does a Stage 1/Haldex controller R drive like compared to an STI/EVO with smart differentials? No one is going to let me learn the balance of their car then explore it's/my limits...