WARNING - Do NOT put a pen in the Car manual compartment in the glovebox!

[ricksterrr]

Hey everyone,

About a month and a half ago, I found that the climatronic system in my GTI had stopped working all of a sudden (no air at all from any of the vents) and figured that it must have been some sort of electrical gremlin that caused it to fail.

Took it in to get it fixed today and lo and behold, it turned out that a pen had made its way into one of the aircon vents and had apparently jammed up the main blower fans, causing the failure of the entire air con system. Of course this got me confused initially since I don't have any kids and I certainly would not have deliberately stuck a pen into one of the vents (nor would it have fit)

After trying to think as to how a pen could have possibly made it into the aircon unit in the first place, I suddenly remembered that I had left a pen in the compartment in the glovebox that holds the car manual (for convenience reasons, obviously). This pen must have found its way into the venting system after driving around on bumpy roads. I later confirmed this by checking out the glovebox of the courtesy Mk6 Golf TDI that was loaned to me by the dealership... turns out there are significantly sized gaps at the back of the compartment that holds the car manual that could have easily swallowed pens. Obviously I had not noticed these gaps before I put the pen there. Since it is a fault of my own, I will have to pay for the replacement unit... and it's not cheap :(.

Moral of the story - don't put ANY objects in this compartment besides the car manual! I hope that by documenting my unfortunate experience here due to my own carelessness will prevent others from making the same mistake.

[ConR]

Oh man..that sucks bud! My opinion is that you shouldn't have to pay a thing though. I didn't know there was a clause in VW warranty that says do not leave a pen in your glove box. The glove box is meant to hold items, and it's expected that ALOT of people will keep pens in there (get into an accident, write down info, etc.).

I would complain to VW on that one.

[team_v]

Hey everyone,

About a month and a half ago, I found that the climatronic system in my GTI had stopped working all of a sudden (no air at all from any of the vents) and figured that it must have been some sort of electrical gremlin that caused it to fail.

Took it in to get it fixed today and lo and behold, it turned out that a pen had made its way into one of the aircon vents and had apparently jammed up the main blower fans, causing the failure of the entire air con system. Of course this got me confused initially since I don't have any kids and I certainly would not have deliberately stuck a pen into one of the vents (nor would it have fit)

After trying to think as to how a pen could have possibly made it into the aircon unit in the first place, I suddenly remembered that I had left a pen in the compartment in the glovebox that holds the car manual (for convenience reasons, obviously). This pen must have found its way into the venting system after driving around on bumpy roads. I later confirmed this by checking out the glovebox of the courtesy Mk6 Golf TDI that was loaned to me by the dealership... turns out there are significantly sized gaps at the back of the compartment that holds the car manual that could have easily swallowed pens. Obviously I had not noticed these gaps before I put the pen there. Since it is a fault of my own, I will have to pay for the replacement unit... and it's not cheap :(.

Moral of the story - don't put ANY objects in this compartment besides the car manual! I hope that by documenting my unfortunate experience here due to my own carelessness will prevent others from making the same mistake.

Jesus, that sounds pretty vicious.
Hopefully it all gets sorted out for you.

Will be checking out my glovebovebox to find said gaps before i put anything in there.

[booya]

A glove box which you can't keep anything resembling a pen in (doesn't matter if its in the area for the book), it should be under warranty. Hope you win this one.

[ricksterrr]

Oh man..that sucks bud! My opinion is that you shouldn't have to pay a thing though. I didn't know there was a clause in VW warranty that says do not leave a pen in your glove box. The glove box is meant to hold items, and it's expected that ALOT of people will keep pens in there (get into an accident, write down info, etc.).

I would complain to VW on that one.

Yup I tried to get them to pull some strings, but to no avail. Apparently I am the first one to have had a pen stuck in the aircon system in a mk 6. Not exactly something I wanted to be a pioneer at but alas...

Actually it would have been completely fine for pens to be in the glovebox itself...but in my case I had chosen to place the pen in the car manual compartment instead.

I just took a photo of the car manual compartment and as you can see, there is a massive hole there that can easily swallow a couple of pens.

imgur: The Simple Image Sharer (http://imgur.com/DF8hs)

[phantomcamel]

Oh man..that sucks bud! My opinion is that you shouldn't have to pay a thing though. I didn't know there was a clause in VW warranty that says do not leave a pen in your glove box. The glove box is meant to hold items, and it's expected that ALOT of people will keep pens in there (get into an accident, write down info, etc.).

I would complain to VW on that one. warranty covers damage caused due to a manufracturers fault, not damage caused by the driver or their passenger(s). You can't hold the manufracturer liable for foreign objects entering the a/c duct.
You certainly wonder how it could have gotten in there that easy though...

[Guest1306]

Oh man..that sucks bud! My opinion is that you shouldn't have to pay a thing though. I didn't know there was a clause in VW warranty that says do not leave a pen in your glove box. The glove box is meant to hold items, and it's expected that ALOT of people will keep pens in there (get into an accident, write down info, etc.).

I would complain to VW on that one.

Owners Manual, Page 100, Seats & Stowage:

In some vehicle models, the glove compartment contains apertures, for example behind the compartment for the vehicle wallet. Small items could fall through the apertures and become trapped behind the trim. This could cause unusual noises and damage to the vehicle. For this reason you should not store small items in the glove box.

[logger]

Owners Manual, Page 100, Seats & Stowage:
In some vehicle models, the glove compartment contains apertures, for example behind the compartment for the vehicle wallet. Small items could fall through the apertures and become trapped behind the trim. This could cause unusual noises and damage to the vehicle. For this reason you should not store small items in the glove box.
Apart from that statement covering VW RRRRs, it shows that VW are aware of what could be argued as a design fault. Would be better if they placed a warning label on the poorly designed stowage.

[Corey_R]

Hmm. Not sure I'd be really happy with that. Although it does say not to put small things in the glovebox in the manual, I'm sure that most people would consider the glovebox the obviousl place TO put a pen. To me it makes more sense that VW should just cover that hole which is large enough for a pen to go through... but then again, I'm not a car designer :)

[Syd118TSI]

Sounds like the manual is pretty clear about this, though it's bloody unfortunate for the OP and you'd think that perhaps VW could come to the party a little on this and perhaps only charge for parts.

It's not something that you expect to have to allow for, it seems a perfectly logical place to keep a pen without having meticulously read through the manual before operating the vehicle.

[Maverick]

Sounds like the manual is pretty clear about this, though it's bloody unfortunate for the OP and you'd think that perhaps VW could come to the party a little on this and perhaps only charge for parts.

It's not something that you expect to have to allow for, it seems a perfectly logical place to keep a pen without having meticulously read through the manual before operating the vehicle.

Actually I find it perfectly reasonable to expect you to have read the manual before operating the vehicle. So many times you see people asking the most basic of questions because they haven't bothered to RTFM and this time it's lead to damage of the car.

Pens can be put in the glovebox but just not in the section which is only for the manual. I don't want to see VW cover the car in warnings because people are too lazy to read the manual.

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[Corey_R]

No No No No No, it says not to put them in the compartment for the manual. It stands to reason that they know there is a risk of damage from objects going in there. However there is obviously a need for the hole, or they would not of gone to the trouble of writing a section into the manual for it. If the manual said, do not put CD's into the CD Player upside down or you may cause damage, would you do it? No.

Yeah - It is fair enough - because it is clear and specifically says that compartment for the manual. It's just unfortunate I guess :)

[logger]

Actually I find it perfectly reasonable to expect you to have read the manual before operating the vehicle.
Maverick why don't your comments surprise me? Next thing you'll be saying is we have to pass an exam on the manual as well.
How do you get on when you rent a car? Read the manual from cover to cover before you set off do you ; -)

PS nice choice of phone dude.

Sent from my Nexus one using T@p@t@lk

[Maverick]

Maverick why don't your comments surprise me? Next thing you'll be saying is we have to pass an exam on the manual as well.

I have advocated that before, make the owners read the manual and pass a test before driving away. It would reduce the posts on here by 60%.


How do you get on when you rent a car? Read the manual from cover to cover before you set off do you ; -)

I normally hire falcons and as their target market is knuckle draggers there isn't much to learn. If it's something like a maxima I'll take a quick read of key areas.


PS nice choice of phone dude.

:)

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[ricksterrr]

Well I am kicking myself for making such a mistake. It's not something that I ever thought about when I shoved that pen there, but a close read of the manual would've prevented me from doing so. Now I'll have to pay for the damage from that one stray pen.

I guess an upside (if there is one) is that the damage was limited to the climatronic unit... and that doesn't affect the driving experience in anyway. The car is still a pleasure to drive, climatronic has not been used since winter hit, it's just a bit of a pain in the arse when the windows fog up and I can't remove the condensation :P

Hopefully my unfortunate experience will prevent this from happening in anyone else's car

[Zaul]

Wow, thanks for the heads up ricksterr..something I definitely won't do. Bad luck, mate.

To be honest when I get my car and read the manual, I'm not sure a section on the glovebox would be something I would really absorb in detail.

[thelairster]

To summarise, I think laying blame on anyone is almost impossible. It's an unfortunate incident and hopefully the OP may prevent a repeat incident in the future.

[Frankenstrat]

I normally hire falcons and as their target market is knuckle draggers there isn't much to learn.
Hey, Maverick, you may have just shot yourself in the foot there! :)

Sent from my office using a PC

[Maverick]

Hey, Maverick, you may have just shot yourself in the foot there! :)

Just showing that I'm open minded enough to drive a Neanderthal car built with 15 year old technology!

[maca]

Hey, Maverick, you may have just shot yourself in the foot there! :)

Sent from my office using a PC

That part made me laugh!

In my opinion; you shouldn't have to read a section of the manual on how to operate/store items in your glove compartment. If Volkswagen has to be that pedantic about it, they need to reconsider the overall design for it.

I'm sorry but inserting the CD into the HU upside down is a bad example. Everyone knows how to use a CD player in the same way everyone knows how to use their glove compartment. Regardless of whether you drive a Falcon, Golf or Maxima, the average person will place smaller items (such as pens, chocolates (the compartment is meant to be climate controlled), mobile phone accessories, etc) in the glove box so Volkswagen being the "People's Car", should be catering for these simple requirements.

OP: I'm really sorry to hear about your problem and I hope everything works out smoothly for you. I'm sure your experience will prevent future mishaps regarding pens in gloveboxes :banana:

[Corey_R]

Thinking about things, much of this is really nothing new. The globebox is just like a kitchen drawer, there are obviously gaps around the edges etc and it's unsealed, that's what gives it the ability to open and close etc. The issue in a car, is that bumps can make things bounce, and not necessarily come down in the same place they were put, and hence get outside the 'tray' of the globebox. I remember this happening to my dad when I was a kid.

I guess the surprise to me about this, is that the pen was then able to end up in the aircon system.

[brad]

So the Golf doesn't have a pen holder on the lid of the glovebox? & a clip next to it to hold shopper dockets, business cards, etc? You guys have been severely ripped.

[Highlander]

That part made me laugh!

In my opinion; you shouldn't have to read a section of the manual on how to operate/store items in your glove compartment. If Volkswagen has to be that pedantic about it, they need to reconsider the overall design for it.

:

I have searched my CC manual high and low to find out which way to turn the steering wheel to make the car go to the right and which way to turn the steering wheel to make the car go to the left. Nothing anywhere to be found. Not even a footnote

[night_flight]

I have searched my CC manual high and low to find out which way to turn the steering wheel to make the gar go to the right and which way to turn the steering wheel to make the car go to the left. Nothing anywhere to be found. Not even a footnote

hahaha this truly made me laugh today!

[McDub]

The manual may say not to do it, but the purpose of a glove box is for storage of items, and if a normal item in your glove box causes damage, then you could argue that the glove box is not designed in a way that is "fit for purpose"
A clause in the manual saying not to put small items in the glove box does not really avoid liability, rather all it does is admit VW knew of the design flaw, and in a sense makes them liable.
Your reasoning that "well they went to the trouble of writing it in the manual therefore there must be a need for the hole" is not justification for designing it that way. It clearly was just the easiest cheapest way of putting in the required vent, OR the design flaw was discovered it was designed and built. The manuals are finished AFTER the design process.

A pretty gray one if you ask me, and i wouldn't be happy if the dealership did not offer warranty on that.

[hooba]

i wouldn't be happy if the dealership did not offer warranty on that.

No point in getting mad with the poor dealer, it's not their call on whether to offer to cover it under warranty. They need VWA to authorise (and pay for) warranty work.

[REXman]

Personally, I dont think all people who buy a car will read the manual for gods sake. Thats ludicrous. I read it, and I probably read it twice cause Im a bit of an egg like that and it interests me. But it should be expected, that a glove box, can handle, and stow away a pen with no problems and possible damage to your air con system.

And its a bit much for someone to be expected to have read the manual cover to cover. Even I might skim over the storage compartments section.

If its that badly designed (which it sounds like it is), there should be a nice warning label all over it.

I think any reasonable person would feel the same.

[REXman]

No point in getting mad with the poor dealer, it's not their call on whether to offer to cover it under warranty. They need VWA to authorise (and pay for) warranty work.

And I thought it was your workshop who really decides if its worth it, which then the mother ship simply approves.

[McDub]

No point in getting mad with the poor dealer, it's not their call on whether to offer to cover it under warranty. They need VWA to authorise (and pay for) warranty work.
well i do sympethaise with the dealer having to fork out money, but they're the one who sold you the product in the first place. If the customers claim is legally valid, and yet the head office refuses to offer warranty, then that's not the customers problem, that's the dealers problem to sort out.

The way i see it, sure it may put a disclaimer in the manual, but disclaimers are not very legally binding most of the time. Use a bit of common sense here, a glove box should never require an operation manual to use. It is a storage compartment that is very often used by passengers... should buyers of VW cars have to ask each passenger who gets in their car to read the compartment operational manual before entering? I surely hope not. They should not be designed that way, BUT if VW choose to design it that way because there is only a small chance of the problem arising, then they should warrant any repairs as a result when it does happen on the rare occasion. At least that is my humble opinion.

[Maverick]

well i do sympethaise with the dealer having to fork out money, but they're the one who sold you the product in the first place. If the customers claim is legally valid, and yet the head office refuses to offer warranty, then that's not the customers problem, that's the dealers problem to sort out.

Not really, Volkswagen has determined that this is not a valid warranty job and that's that. The dealer isn't in a position to pay for the repair (although they do have a goodwill allowance) and IMO they shouldn't.


The way i see it, sure it may put a disclaimer in the manual, but disclaimers are not very legally binding most of the time. Use a bit of common sense here, a glove box should never require an operation manual to use. It is a storage compartment that is very often used by passengers... should buyers of VW cars have to ask each passenger who gets in their car to read the compartment operational manual before entering? I surely hope not. They should not be designed that way, BUT if VW choose to design it that way because there is only a small chance of the problem arising, then they should warrant any repairs as a result when it does happen on the rare occasion. At least that is my humble opinion.

Putting a pen in the glovebox is not a problem. What is a problem is sticking a pen into the area at the top of the glovebox. These are two very different uses of the glovebox. Would you shove your pen into the AC outlet because a pen will fit in there nicely, just like a holder? The glovebox is fit for purpose and it's clear in the manual that you can't stick anything in the manual area.

Volkswagen produced a manual and all owners should read this, if they don't well that's their problem.

[McDub]

Not really, Volkswagen has determined that this is not a valid warranty job and that's that.

errrrm no it's not that simple, just because Volkswagen head office say that they will not offer warranty for a fault like this, doesn't mean they are correct in not offering warranty.


Putting a pen in the glovebox is not a problem. What is a problem is sticking a pen into the area at the top of the glovebox. These are two very different uses of the glovebox. Would you shove your pen into the AC outlet because a pen will fit in there nicely, just like a holder? The glovebox is fit for purpose and it's clear in the manual that you can't stick anything in the manual area.

i don't recall what the manual section in the MKVI glove box looks like, but it's still a storage section of the glove box. Comparing putting a pen in a certain section of a glove box to sticking a pen in a power outlet, come on now, really?


it's clear in the manual that you can't stick anything in the manual area.

Volkswagen produced a manual and all owners should read this, if they don't well that's their problem.

as i said before "a glove box should never require an operation manual to use. It is a storage compartment that is very often used by passengers... should buyers of VW cars have to ask each passenger who gets in their car to read the compartment operational manual before entering? I surely hope not."

[Guest]

WARRANTY = Manufacturing Defect!
Putting a Pen in the glovebox is not a "Manufacturing defect"
A pen hat it fell into the fan is not the greatest! But Volkswagen did not fit the fan with a pen installed inside it.

[hazamatic]

A glove box should be able to hold a large variety of things. A pen is one such thing. If a glove box is unable to hold a pen, I would say it is a defective glove box.

I can't belive some people really feel you should have to read the car's manual before using the glove box. A glove box is not some new wonderous device. I would say 100% of people who buy a new Golf have some previous experience of how a glove box operates.

When is the last time you read the manual for a computer keyboard? When you press 'A' on the keyboard you expect 'A' to appear on the screen right? Well when I place items in the glove box, I expect them to stay in the glove box.

[Christopher]

A glove box should be able to hold a large variety of things. A pen is one such thing. If a glove box is unable to hold a pen, I would say it is a defective glove box.

True.. if you put something in the body of the glovebox, you would expect it to remain there.. Situation here is that the object was placed in the partial shelf purpose built to only house the car manual... given that the hole is only found behind the shelf and is not big enough for a manual to fall through, no manufactoring defect there.. having said that though, if the hole is not there for a reason, then it would make sense to cover it..

[cameronp]

True.. if you put something in the body of the glovebox, you would expect it to remain there.. Situation here is that the object was placed in the partial shelf purpose built to only house the car manual... given that the hole is only found behind the shelf and is not big enough for a manual to fall through, no manufactoring defect there.. having said that though, if the hole is not there for a reason, then it would make sense to cover it..

I would guess that the hole is the air-con vent for the cooled glovebox. Not quite sure why it doesn't have a grille over it, but perhaps VW assumed that nobody would think of putting anything other than the manual in the shelf.

Personally I prefer to keep a pen in the centre console, that way it's easy to access for the driver or the passenger.

[Christopher]

true - must admit - i think i've only opened my glove box a handful of times; once was to look at the hole and then a second time to make sure nothing fell down there..

agreed on the centre console - although i have to put my sunglasses there as they don't fit in the sunglass compartment.. lol..

[brad]

WARRANTY = Manufacturing Defect!
Putting a Pen in the glovebox is not a "Manufacturing defect"
A pen hat it fell into the fan is not the greatest! But Volkswagen did not fit the fan with a pen installed inside it.

warranty also covers design deficiencies. We used to rebuild/replace corolla engines back in the 80s because of a badly designed crank bolt. There was nothing wrong with the crank bolt, just the design meant it would unwind slightly & lunch the crank.

I've also been involved in plenty of field campaigns & recalls for design deficiencies rather than manufacturing faults. All classified as warranty.


I'm somewhat amazed by how much this subject has gripped the imagination of VWWC.

[bushnut]

just to clear up. A few people are thinking that the pen was in the glove box but was actually in the owners manual compartment in the glove box this was a bit of bad luck. The dealer is being a bit harsh by not covering under warranty. A way to get round this would be to have the pen removed if not yet done then take it to another dealer and say my fresh air blower fans not working no pen in there so they wont know why its failed and end up replacing under warranty were only technicians not detectives the part itself is very easy to replace but is costly if you've just paid for a nice new car.

[REXman]

Decided against it.

[REXman]

A glove box should be able to hold a large variety of things. A pen is one such thing. If a glove box is unable to hold a pen, I would say it is a defective glove box.

I can't belive some people really feel you should have to read the car's manual before using the glove box. A glove box is not some new wonderous device. I would say 100% of people who buy a new Golf have some previous experience of how a glove box operates.

When is the last time you read the manual for a computer keyboard? When you press 'A' on the keyboard you expect 'A' to appear on the screen right? Well when I place items in the glove box, I expect them to stay in the glove box.

Some people are absolute morons.. read the manual to use the glove box.. I love it.

[Maverick]

Some people are absolute morons.. read the manual to use the glove box.. I love it.

Reading the manual when you get the car is a good idea, no one said you have to read the manual to use the glovebox but the manual will warn you of any areas to pay attention to along with how to operate the various features in the car.

And you can put a pen in the glovebox but you can't stick it up in the very top of the glovebox (in the manual holder) where it's open. No car has a full sealed glovebox and they all have areas where items can fall inside the dash.

The morons are those that don't read their manual.

[Treza360]

So you lend your car to a family member or friend, should you have to explain to them how to use the glovebox and/or to be careful of the glovebox. Also should they have to read the manual before they use it?
Maybe a training course should be in order before they drive the car with a test and certification sign off before they drive the car?
They put stickers warning about airbags and other features of the car to be careful of everywhere. If they feel they have to put something in the manual about this there should be a sticker in the glovebox as well.

However a GTI is not a supercar or something unique and special. It's a hot hatch that's meant to be used everyday by anyone with minimal fuss and bother. Having to have something written in the manual about something that should be as simple and foolproof as a glovebox only proves that this is a serious design flaw or at the worst intentional stupidity on behalf of Volkswagen.

Not aiming this at anyone in particular but if you can't admit that and think otherwise you are obviously so blinkered and biased towards VW that you think they can do no wrong. Of course that's my opinion and others are entitled to theirs.

Cheers,
Trent

[brad]

. No car has a full sealed glovebox and they all have areas where items can fall inside the dash..

That's a big call Mav.

Seriously, I haven't noticed a potential for disaster in the Octavia glovebox. And as i previously stated, there's a pen holder on the lid (and a business card/note pad holder). Why is it the budget brand appears to be so much more logical & better appointed. Oh, and the glovebox is air conditioned too.

Somewhat amused that a discussion about a glove box has run to five pages.

[McDub]

So you lend your car to a family member or friend, should you have to explain to them how to use the glovebox and/or to be careful of the glovebox. Also should they have to read the manual before they use it?
Maybe a training course should be in order before they drive the car with a test and certification sign off before they drive the car?
They put stickers warning about airbags and other features of the car to be careful of everywhere. If they feel they have to put something in the manual about this there should be a sticker in the glovebox as well.

However a GTI is not a supercar or something unique and special. It's a hot hatch that's meant to be used everyday by anyone with minimal fuss and bother. Having to have something written in the manual about something that should be as simple and foolproof as a glovebox only proves that this is a serious design flaw or at the worst intentional stupidity on behalf of Volkswagen.

Not aiming this at anyone in particular but if you can't admit that and think otherwise you are obviously so blinkered and biased towards VW that you think they can do no wrong. Of course that's my opinion and others are entitled to theirs.

Cheers,
Trent

well said.

/thread

[REXman]

The morons are those that don't read their manual.

Yeah, right.

[Cossor]

Not mentioned here are problems caused by children.
Kids place all sorts of things where we do not expect it.
Like coins placed into the slot of the CD player (And in older computers, the floppy disk slot)
Toyota has seen fit to place a warning label on current Corolla cars, in plain sight, that the car radio does NOT have a touch screen.
VW could have done the same on predelivery cars, especially where caution is required!
Will be interested to see if my car when delivered has suitable protection.

[Cossor]

Added thoughts to previous post
Re the car dealer, where a possible problem could occur, should not the dealer be aware?
Wher the dealer is carefully shows all the bells and whistles on delivery, should not the dealer also convey due caution?
In other words, it is also the dealers responsibility to read the instruction manual.

[hooba]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/floggingdeadhorse-1.jpg

[Frankenstrat]

The morons are those that don't read their manual.


Yeah, right.

I had to look up something in my manual yesterday. Does that make me less of a moron? Have I edged imperceptibly closer to 'genius' status? I could include it on my CV: Fully conversant with Page 211 of the Golf manual.

Maybe it's time to lock this thread and throw away the key.

[Corey_R]

I can appreciate Maverick's frustration.

Like myself, he has over 2500 posts, with a decent percentage directly answering questions that the members of these forums post. Many of the questions I answer every day, are covered in the manual. By the time you answer the same question 20 times for new members that have come to our forums, and that question is answered in the manual, it can become very frustrating.

As I've said many times before, these cars have become quite complex and after owning Japanese cars all my life and purchasing my first VW I was amazed at all the features my Golf GTI had that I would have never of known about if it had not been for reading the manual. If you've owned european cars before in recent years, maybe the jump isn't as big. If you've owned other VW's before, maybe you can fumble your way through. But there's even large differences between even my MY08 Polo GTI and my MY08 Golf GTI....

So I see the topic RTFM as being two fold:
1) If you don't read the manual, you're bound to need to ask a question here that has been answered 20 times already!
2) If you don't read the manual, you're bound to be missing out on some cool features and the full benefit of a car that you've just spent $30k to $70k on (depending on model and options).

So whilst I personally wouldn't call someone a moron for not reading the manual, I do struggle to understand why someone would spend so much money on an item and NOT be interested in understanding how it all operates and how to take full advantage of what it has to offer. To me it just seems like a bit of a waste when you consider how long it takes the average person to save up that $30k to $70k in comparison to how long it takes to read the manual :)

[Frankenstrat]

Coreying, my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I posted my response. I *know* how helpful Mav can be, and I know how prickly he can be, it doesn't diminish his contribution to VWW.

[hooba]

I told that horse was still moving!!!!! :D

[Corey_R]

Coreying, my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I posted my response. I *know* how helpful Mav can be, and I know how prickly he can be, it doesn't diminish his contribution to VWW.

Fair enough :)

[Cossor]

Owerners manuals are reasonable, if sometimes a bit obscure.
But pity the poor service engineer trying to understand some obscure error readout.
And again, the service or install engineer who does not bother to read the full manual, but takes shortcuts.
This last, as Chief engineer for an X-Ray company, was bane of my life.

[yowie]

So, what lies within the province of good design and what is responsible operation?
Is the product fit for the purpose if you cannot leave a visitor with the car, or a child in the front while packing the back, without worrying they might park a small object into the menu holder, which may later fall somewhere invisible from the passenger compartment causing dollars damage and inconvenience?
And what about us dunces who have read the manual, but can't remember everything, so try to select the most important bits?
In this last case, I would like to think the intrinsic design is sound, such that tiny things one might easily forget over several years ownership would not cause major damage.
I would like to see Sportsbet odds on design change for the MkVII.

[yowie]

PS; fascinating for a thread that I opened thinking my Waterman might be at risk:)

[Maverick]

So, what lies within the province of good design and what is responsible operation?
Is the product fit for the purpose if you cannot leave a visitor with the car, or a child in the front while packing the back, without worrying they might park a small object into the menu holder, which may later fall somewhere invisible from the passenger compartment causing dollars damage and inconvenience?

And what about a child in the front putting something in the CD/DVD slot, or the AC vent, or down the side of the gear selector, or down the side of the glass in the window or .........


And what about us dunces who have read the manual, but can't remember everything, so try to select the most important bits?

If you miss the warning about not putting things up in the top of the glovebox I doubt that a warning stick is going to be noticed :P


In this last case, I would like to think the intrinsic design is sound, such that tiny things one might easily forget over several years ownership would not cause major damage.
I would like to see Sportsbet odds on design change for the MkVII.

The Mark V has the same slots in the top of the glovebox and very few people managed to destroy their blower.

[Maverick]

So whilst I personally wouldn't call someone a moron for not reading the manual, I do struggle to understand why someone would spend so much money on an item and NOT be interested in understanding how it all operates and how to take full advantage of what it has to offer.

I was only responding to the post (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f112/warning-do-not-put-pen-car-manual-compartment-glovebox-45326-5.html)from REXman saying that people are morons for suggesting that people read their manual.

[REXman]

I was only responding to the post (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f112/warning-do-not-put-pen-car-manual-compartment-glovebox-45326-5.html)from REXman saying that people are morons for suggesting that people read their manual.

Yeah Maverick sometimes mate your a bit rich. Its just a "tone" I get from you thats a bit condescending. You always seem to answer people like you have the ****s, or your the chief engineer from VW getting offended by people thinking it stupid to read the manual, in order to operate the GLVOEBOX!!

Surely you can appreciate what people mean, that when you spend a whole lot of dosh on a car, you honestly dont expect us to all be herberts and read a car manual - cover to cover!

You can say what you like, but thats my opinion on reading manuals at length.

Same reason, I might be naive or whatever, but when I sign a contract for something I dont always have time to get through it all.. but most of us go on anyway.

If you actually sit there and read your mobile phone contract for example before signing, thats your business. But it aint normal. I am sure of it.

[yowie]

And what about a child in the front putting something in the CD/DVD slot, or the AC vent, or down the side of the gear selector, or down the side of the glass in the window or .........

The difference with the problem compartment is that an untrained person could put something there in ignorance.
I should say I am not disagreeing with the WVA decision. However, I bought the design philosophy of continual improvement. In this case, ther should be an elegant solution, such as the manual getting a hard cover and the compartment reduced to a pair of rails that it slides into. That or the gaps filled in.

If you miss the warning about not putting things up in the top of the glovebox I doubt that a warning stick is going to be noticed :P

Agreed, Maverick.

The Mark V has the same slots in the top of the glovebox and very few people managed to destroy their blower.
And that I didnt know.

[ConR]

And what about a child in the front putting something in the CD/DVD slot, or the AC vent, or down the side of the gear selector, or down the side of the glass in the window or .........

Sorry, I think you're comparing apples and oranges here Mav...one is six year old who doesn't know up from down, or left from right (I'm sure most adults would know that placing something in any of the devices you listed is not proper)...the other is a grown adult placing something as simple as a pen in what they consider to be a storage compartment for the car. You're argument doesn't hold up to me.


If you miss the warning about not putting things up in the top of the glovebox I doubt that a warning stick is going to be noticed

That's a little naive. We clearly all haven't graduated VW University like you have. I would find it next to impossible to believe that having a warning label in a manual that you read once in a blue moon as opposed to a sticker label on the actual device that you could potentially see every single day would result in the same "misuse" of it. After you visually see things over and over, common tendency is to accept it. You've obviously read every single page of every manual of every item you've ever owned (and memorized them), and have never had anything go wrong for you.

And congrats for the Mark V...this is the Mark VI forum. Agree with REX, your tone is just plain arrogant and rude 90% of the time.

[yowie]

ktrianta,
Thanks, you put it much clearer than I did.
And I think you and Mav are both right about signs and stickers. When toothpicks come with instructions, it makes one wonder about the sanity of the world, to paraphrase Douglass Adams.
The issue is whether an adult might make the leave Biro with manual error.
I am now considering placing hole in the bottom to both dissuade pens being put there, and allow any small object to drop immediately into the glovebox below, removing the risk of blower damage.
Query whether that might affect warranty I guess. Cant see how it would.

[Cossor]

My point in a previous post, is that Toyota saw fit to place a warning label on the radio
advising it was NOT a touch screen.
This was needed while the car was in the SHOWROOM and is removable by the owner.
The same applies to any REMOVABLE sticker after its measage is understood.
My pet gripe relates to installation engineers leaving the protective delivery plastic on a control panel
in place. The operators do not remove it. It becomes torn and dirty. You will see the same on many items
of domestic appliances.