GTI Build Quality Concerns Holding Me Back

[OSienna]

I went for a back-to-back test drive of the GTI and the R32 on the weekend. It was hard to erase the experience from my mind even having visited a Lexus (IS250) and a BMW showroom (130i) immediately after.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why I would fork out an extra $15K+ for the R32 when you can have just as much fun in the GTI. True, you get a V6 donk, all-wheel drive, German build and the rest of the bells and whistles for the extra dosh but the GTI is already packed with some decent equipment - plus it has a bigger boot than the R32!

Anyway, I'm close to making a decision on a five door GTI but after reading some of the forum posts about leaking sunroofs, poor paint finish, squeaks and rattles, blank LCDs and faulty cruise control stalks it has made me a little uneasy. I don't have a problem with it's South African origin as I've owned a 3 series previously and it was flawless, though that's no guarantee I can expect the same with VW.

Should my quality control concerns about the GTI push me towards the R32? I'm happy to bleed the wallet dry for the range-topping Golf if I know I'm going to get some trouble-free motoring out of it. Suggestions anyone?

[srbsta]

go for the GTI you will love it....i have had my GTI now for over 7 months and i have not had one rattle untill i crashed it on sat :mad: but yeh its a very good car...go for it:D


5 star rating for the safety...thank god

[VWGTi]

I went for a back-to-back test drive of the GTI and the R32 on the weekend. It was hard to erase the experience from my mind even having visited a Lexus (IS250) and a BMW showroom (130i) immediately after.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why I would fork out an extra $15K+ for the R32 when you can have just as much fun in the GTI. True, you get a V6 donk, all-wheel drive, German build and the rest of the bells and whistles for the extra dosh but the GTI is already packed with some decent equipment - plus it has a bigger boot than the R32!

Anyway, I'm close to making a decision on a five door GTI but after reading some of the forum posts about leaking sunroofs, poor paint finish, squeaks and rattles, blank LCDs and faulty cruise control stalks it has made me a little uneasy. I don't have a problem with it's South African origin as I've owned a 3 series previously and it was flawless, though that's no guarantee I can expect the same with VW.

Should my quality control concerns about the GTI push me towards the R32? I'm happy to bleed the wallet dry for the range-topping Golf if I know I'm going to get some trouble-free motoring out of it. Suggestions anyone?

Hi OSienna,
Welcome to the forum.

The concerns you have are valid - but as Andrew (gtimk5) has said on another thread, the problems that have surfaced are relatively minor issues - and perhaps they are more prominent on the early/earlier models of the GTI?
I've had mine (GTI with DSG) for ~ 6weeks - admittedly haven't done as many KM's as many of the guys here (now approaching 2000kms)- and it's still running as beautifully as brand new (touch wood).

And I totally agree with your analysis of the R32 VS GTI - the GTI is heaps of fun to drive and saves you burning a hole in your pocket.

Besides, my local dealer is only 5 minutes around the corner from me and so far have shown quite good follow up service.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Thomas

[VWGTi]

go for the GTI you will love it....i have had my GTI now for over 7 months and i have not had one rattle untill i crashed it on sat :mad: but yeh its a very good car...go for it:D


5 star rating for the safety...thank god

Hey Srbsta,
how did you go with your insurance claim? any news yet?

[Subie25L]

I have 07spec GTI with 8,000km on mine and the only problem i have had was a knocking sound from the rear swaybar that was fixed with no hassel at all and the ski port latch which they replaced.

Like others have said these are all minor issues. Have a look over at the MRT forum with regards to oil usage issues in the N/A 2.5 and 3.0L manual Subaru Liberties. There are a couple of guys on their 3rd engine because they are using too much oil. eg 500ml in 1000km

[Hilton_K]

I've had my GTI for nearly 3 weeks now (3000Km's on the clock already!!!) and the only rattle I have noticed is the boot cover rattling over really bumpy roads. When it's on the open road she's quite as a mouse. No other problem at all, car drives great!!!

[drb999]

...

For the life of me, I can't figure out why I would fork out an extra $15K+ for the R32 when you can have just as much fun in the GTI. ...

I second everyone elses comments about possible minor hassles and the R32vsGTI, but if you're still concerned about all the quality and non-German build, go for an Audi A3 2.0T quattro, that will give you a very similar experience to the GTI and a "better by name, at least," quality. Haven't actually driven an Audi with that engine in it, but just going on Audi build quality and the fact it is the same engine.

[Dr Spine]

I've had my 07 GTI with DSG and sunroof for almost 6 months and have absolutely no complaints. There was a minor issue with some sort of fuel pressure valve but it was diagnosed and fixed so fast (VW were great) that to whinge would be unfair. Other than that tiny thing it has been 100% flawless. You should not have anything but lots of joy from a GTI. Go for it!

[pinzvidz]

I second everyone elses comments about possible minor hassles and the R32vsGTI, but if you're still concerned about all the quality and non-German build, go for an Audi A3 2.0T quattro, that will give you a very similar experience to the GTI and a "better by name, at least," quality. Haven't actually driven an Audi with that engine in it, but just going on Audi build quality and the fact it is the same engine.

Don't forget ppl, the 3dr GTI comes from Wolfsburg. :D

[REDMKVGTI]

I was gonna say, do what I did and get the 3dr!

[Panman]

Hi OSienna, I went the whole hog and got an R32. I drove both back to back (and a 130i), and for me the R32 was the right choice (Mine has the Recaros which helped make up my mind). The factors that sold me - Recaros as a factory option, AWD, 6 cylinders, and OMFG that soundtrack..... And, it's a bit less common.

This isn't a hit at GTIs, they are awesome as every test will tell you. Just my choice, and my reasons.

Either way you'll be happy.

[Panman]

Ohh, and sorry for the DP - feels like it is made of solid rock. Part of it is the different suspension tune to the GTI, part of it is the 18"s not a squeak or a rattle or anything except the sound of automotive sex (I've never even turned the aircon on, all I do is drive around with the windows open :-) )

Drive both- "hardish" and one will suit your driving style better.

[seadog]

I too recently went for back-to-back drives in a GTI and R32. My conclusions were rather different. In some respects the GTI felt quicker than the R32, although that is entirely subjective. It is not. The R32 is a heavier vehicle and feels more 'planted' on the road than the GTI. It certainly can explore the limits of cornering with more forgiveness than the GTI. (Have you seen the Stigs lap times on Top Gear - quicker than an Audi S4). The price difference is not as high as you suggest, when you take into account the standard spec of the R32 includes leather, bi-xenon headlamps etc - and of course there's the bloody amazing V6 motor with the most thrilling engine note of any hot hatch. I couldn't wipe the smile off my face after driving both cars, but the R32 left me awestruck.

However, it's not much car for the money, which also prompted me to check the Lexus IS250 (I already own an SC400 Limited which is brilliant), but of course is a very different car, albeit at the same money. Fuel consumption on the R32 is starting to look alarming, which is hardly surprising given the engine capacity. Add insurance costs and re-sale and the Lexus probably is the sensible choice. And 98 octane fuel - yet more $$$.

But the R32 has really gotten under my skin. i can afford it, but the question is whether I should. The problem is of course, will I always feel I settled for 2nd best if I bought the GTI? (Which will no doubt offend all GTI owners, but that's just me.).

Then there's the soon-to-be-released Golf GT, with the 1.4 TSI engine (which is probably more relevant to CO2 obsessed Europe. Perhaps if we ratified Kyoto there might be more encouagement to such vehicles). But the car I really want to drive before finally making up my mind is the Golf GT with the 170HP BMN 2.0 litre turbo-diesel with DSG box. Now, a small sacrifice in performance would be a small price for the amazing economy. But will we see it here...?

[brackie]

Then there's the soon-to-be-released Golf GT, with the 1.4 TSI engine (which is probably more relevant to CO2 obsessed Europe. Perhaps if we ratified Kyoto there might be more encouagement to such vehicles). But the car I really want to drive before finally making up my mind is the Golf GT with the 170HP BMN 2.0 litre turbo-diesel with DSG box. Now, a small sacrifice in performance would be a small price for the amazing economy. But will we see it here...?
Welcome, seadog.
Will we see it? I doubt it. VW Australia will look first at its sale potential and I think this will be restricted, however the crucial factor is whether Australians have gone far enough down the "diesel road" to buy a car such as this. I definitely don't believe that we are conscious enough about air quality (yet) for the pluses of this car to make much difference.

[jb747]

Looks like the back to back R32/GTI test drives are how we're all amusing ourselves at the moment. I'm a total newbie to VW, and did the drive with two DSG equipped cars just the other day, and I came away extremely impressed.

I loved the DSG, and whatever I buy I'll be having that. The cars themselves left me with somewhat mixed feelings. I hated the Recaros that were fitted to the R32 (I'm 51 so perhaps that colours things), but I've currently got Recaros in another car, and have used them extensively in the past, and these ones were just a bit too extreme.

In many ways I liked the feel of the GTI better than the R32. I guess it just felt a bit more explosive as the turbo came on boost. But, she who must be obeyed preferred the R32.

Both of the cars were suffering from some rattles. They both had about 10,000 kms on them, which I guess were all fairly hard 'demo' miles, but nevertheless, my 96 MR2 was rattle free at 75,000 kms. I gather the GTI is made in SA, but what about the R32?

The fuel recommendations were interesting too. I can understand the need for pulp in the GTI, but I was a little surprised that the R32 also requires it. Whilst it's a hot little engine for a Golf, it's really non much hotter than in most mainstream cars, and they get by with standard fuel. Not an issue around home, but if I go ahead with this car, it will be visiting some places from which pulp won't be easy to get.

[pinzvidz]

I gather the GTI is made in SA, but what about the R32?

The R32 (regardless of 3 or 5 door) and the 3 door GTI are made in Germany. The 5 door GTI comes from Seth Efrika.

[Panman]

Interesting on the seat/R32 comment above - I'm 43 and my better half is 33- She hates the Recaros, I do a reasonable amount of 2-hour plus drives and find them great, so go figure - It's very much an individual thing - like DSG, I drove both an R32 and a GTI with DSG, and settled on a manual R32.

It's good that one manufacturer gives us enough choice in the one body style to accomodate all of those personal differences.

Mazda doesn't - no AWD option on the Mazda 3 MPS, and the Mazda 6 MPS is at best unconvincing (and when option to the level of an R32 is more expensive, and not as well made)

Subaru doesn't - If you want uncivilised and not well built (as a former STi and WRX owner, and president of the QLD WRX club I'm qualified to comment on this) buy a WRX or STi - If you want better build quality, but not much edge Liberty GT... Again the price is higher than an R32.

Mitsubishi - Nope

Nissan - Nada

Audi - Well if you wish to pay $30K more for your R32 or GTI (and call it a TT) go right ahead.

Yet with the GTI and R32 we get two well built, reasonable value for money, exciting performance cars. How good is that... There are no wrong choices, just preferences!

[flu!d]

We definately will be getting the TSI engine.

[brackie]

Most of my TDI kms (now almost 10,000 of them) have been done on hilly, twisty, bumpy country roads here in Tassie and I can honestly say that she has no rattles. Not one. My farm driveway is a fair length and is cut up by the semis that take out milk and bring in feed and other stuff as well as my 5 and 8 tonne tractors but every time I take the car out I can drive it's length without hearing a rattle or a squeak.

[Dr Spine]

Yet with the GTI and R32 we get two well built, reasonable value for money, exciting performance cars. How good is that... There are no wrong choices, just preferences!

Beautifully said Panman. At the end of the day we all make individual choices for our own reasons. Comparing the GTI and the R32 is a distraction in some ways I think. They're both great cars in their own right and offer different strengths.

For mine, I'd like to see VW build the next gen GTI with AWD. I'd definitely put money down for something like that. I feel (as a previous WRX driver) that that is GTI's only "flaw". I say "flaw" because the handeling and ride are still super. Just get an R32 I hear some say......possibly a fair point but I'm addicted to the surge of power that the turbo gives.

[Subie25L]

For mine, I'd like to see VW build the next gen GTI with AWD. I'd definitely put money down for something like that. I feel (as a previous WRX driver) that that is GTI's only "flaw". I say "flaw" because the handeling and ride are still super. Just get an R32 I hear some say......possibly a fair point but I'm addicted to the surge of power that the turbo gives.


+1. If there was a AWD GTI i'd order one tomorrow. I too came from a Subie and it's the only thing i wish the GTI had.

It would be good if you could at least have the option. I'd tick the box. So what do you recon $5K option ?

[seadog]

Sounds like what you really want is an Audi S3.

[OSienna]

+1. If there was a AWD GTI i'd order one tomorrow. I too came from a Subie and it's the only thing i wish the GTI had.

It would be good if you could at least have the option. I'd tick the box. So what do you recon $5K option ?

AWD adds weight and changes the dynamics completely... besides, what's stopping you from buying an Audi A3 Sportback Quattro? It's essentially a repackaged GTI with AWD. It's a little bit more than a $5K option though!

[Dr Spine]

+1. I too came from a Subie and it's the only thing i wish the GTI had.

So what do you recon $5K option ?

I think that it's interesting (and I've heard it more than a few times) that it's often the ex-WRX drivers (me included) that think it's the only point that would make the GTI greater (it's already fantastic).

Once you've known the feeling (and envelope pushing security) of AWD, you definitely notice it when it's absent. What do the R32 owners have to say?

I think it would be hard to make it an option in some ways. There would need to be too many build differences from the stock GTI. I imagine that they'd need to build it with the R32 production line at wolfsburg and drop in the turbo engine there. I don't really know how all of that works so what I've just said may be a heap of crap?

Why not an Audi S3 quattro? I love the VW's and the look of the GTI. Even though the A3 might better meet my desired description, there is something about the GTI that just does it for me. The GTI is not a compromise for me. I could have bought lots of other possible cars (some more expensive) but chose the GTI for the overall package of how it makes me feel every time I drive it.

[seadog]

Why not an Audi S3 quattro?.

$65,000 + on road costs.
Manual only (no DSG)
3 doors

But quicker around the 'Ring than a GTI or R32 (seen the german video with Sabine Schmitz driving? You can find it on YouTube I think)

[Subie25L]

GTI looks better :D
Needed DSG
Needed 5doors


I love my GTI - Just miss the AWD when pulling out of side streets in the wet

[raja_187]

I'd like to start of with saying hi, I just signed up to this forum recently and I have an R32 DSG (4months ago).

Following on from Panman's comments, I have explored different options on which car to buy before I settled for the R32.

I went to the VW dealership to test drive the golf GTI, it just so happend that the first R32 had just arrived at the Mascot dealership so I gave it a go as well, what impressed be was the smooth acceleration and obvoiuse build quality. Compared to the GTI which was still a fairly zippy ride but wasn't as quick in & out of corners. The standard options such as the Bi-Zenons, upgraded audio system etc which are optional on the GTI made the desicion even easier, not to mention AWD and that exhaust note "music to the ears".

However before I put my money down I wanted to explore my options so I looked at the Mazda 3 MPS, quick as but no grip what so ever, I took it out on a fairly wet day and the front wheels were bouncing all over the road. Then I took a look at the Magane, an aquired taste for the looks and just not quick enough. The STI was a serious option but the idea of being pulled over by the cops every time I drive through Bankstown is not my cup of tea, plus the with the amount of them on the road now a lot of money will need to be spent to stand out in the croud. The Audis are just too expensive for me. And the Evos which are probably the quickest and most fun to drive was simply not practical, not to mention the every 5000km factory service which isn't too friendly on my hip pocket.

My brother in law just got the GTI dsg and he is quite happy with it. I'm not sure if it has been discussed but he tells me you can get a factory retune which can increases the engine out put by a fair few KWs.

[blur32]

Did the same thing as just about eveyone else....and it's funny how we all covered the same yet varied choices: RS 225 Cup, STi, R32, 130i, Audi Sportback, RX8 (for me i loved this thing) & IS250....

....but once I found a tunnel, opened the windows and had a listen to that howling metallic 3.2 narrow angle masterpiece....my choice was made! The hardest part was the waiting!

My only quality issues have been a horrible noise from the front end at low speeds on near full lock (see my post "My new toy...and it's noises!") and the very poor quality, low rent, brittle plastics on the steering column shroud and indicator and wiper stalks