Scirocco Quattro Turbo Project

[twin eng, twin turbs]

I purchased my MK2 GTI 1983 rocco many years ago with the intention of building a show / race car that could still be streetable and legal. This project has no real budget... and will be completed some day..

Although i have yet to complete half of the body work i have made many alterations to it allready with the aim to improve aerodynamics as much as possible whilst keeping it tasteful. I have grafted in the original bodykit pumping the guards out a little and manufactured fibre glass bumpers, mirrors and rear wing.

The 2+ litre 16v turbo engine features so far...
* JE forged pistons 83.00mm diameter 8.5:1 compression ratio.
* Pauter " X beam" connecting rods with arp bolts.
* Forged Knife Edged Crankshaft with 92.8mm stroke, enlarged oil gallerys and linished.
* Billet 4340 forged ligthened flywheel with 6 puck ceramic sprung centre single plate clutch rated 580hp
* Extensively ported and polished head, flow bench tested with new guides.
* Supertech 1mm oversize valves inconel coated on the exhaust ones.
* Supertech valve springs with titanium retainers.
* Light weight INA hydraulic lifters.
* Cat Cams turbo grind.
* Techtonics Tuning adjustable cam gear.
* Autotech light weight intermediate shaft gear.
* Aluminium light weight pulley kit for serpentine belt setup.
* ARP headstuds, main studs and flywheel bolts.
* Schrick cast alloy sump.
* vw motorsport sump windage tray.
* Custom alluminium inlet manifold with 4" plenum chamber and 2 1/4" tapered bellmouthed runners.
* Custom billet 80mm throttle body matching inlet manifold.
* Water to Air intercooler 3" inlet and outlet 1200hp flow capacity 260 by 260 by 110mm core.
* 600cc turbo logic fuel injectors.
* Custom stainless steel fuel rail.
* Bosch 910 fuel pump to 1.5 litre surge tank bosch 044 pump to fuel rail.
* Malpassi 1.5:1 adjustable rising rate fuel pressure regulator, with autometer gauge.
* 30 row oil cooler with braided hose and thermostatic flow control.
* Custom steam pipe 4 into 1 equal length exhaust manifold.
* Garrett GT30r turbo with 4" inlet 0.7 air ratio compressor housing, customised 4" outlet 0.86 air ratio exhaust housing with 38mm Tial wastegate off the side.

To buy and manufacture list...

* Aftermarket engine management purchased last as technology is allways improving.
* Manufacture hollow stainless steel intermediate shaft for weight savings.
* Full gasket kit with cometic head gasket.
* Toga high volume oil pump and racing engine bearings.
* Alluminium radiator and heat exchanger for water to air intercooler.

The drive train i am using is the 02M 6 speed quattro with haldex from the audi S3, should prove interesting to fit.... I will be cutting and raising the floor tunnel between the firewall and back seat for clearance as i also plan to fit a 4" stainless polished exhaust system.

Lots of pics coming...

[GoLfMan]

WAHHH!!!! :D

another crazy build! Really looking forward to pics!

[jasonO]

drooled on my pork whistle.

[Jarred]

Can't wait to see this!

[Oneofthegreats]

Now this sounds like one hell of a project & even more one hell of a parts list.

Very interested to see how it goes.

I also have a GT3076R but with a .82A/R exhaust. I didn't think they made a .86?

I'm thinking of down grading to a .63A/R to promote faster spool due to my capacity staying 1800cc & hopefully running an auto with a high stall convertor

But depending financially & how power hungry I may get, will end up upgrading to something like a GT3582R with a .63 or a Borgwarner, Precision equivalent due to Garrett products going down hill & also a 44mm Tial Wastegate

My advice is maybe look at upgrading your injectors, cause you'll be able to max them out quite easily I reckon, cause with a turbo like that 450hp is easily within grasp.

You should try & avoid ever going past 80% duty cycle on your injectors as a matter of safe guard.
I'd personally be looking at something like a 680+cc.

A good base to start with...

5cc for every HP you plan on making.

eg. 400hp = 100hp per cylinder = 500cc + safe guard = 550cc injectors

One other thing is to maybe consider upgrading your rising rate fuel reg.
I've tried & had several friends use a Malpassi rising rate & they are junk. They have never been able to keep the fuel pressure stable under boost.

My personal choice & alot of sport compact racers is one of these for these kind of power levels is....

Aeromotive (http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/regulators/efi-regulators/13101-a1000-injected-bypass-regulator/)

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Cheers Golfworx,
I am aiming for 500hp.. that would be violently fast in a hopefully sub 1000kg car!
You are right they didn't make the 0.86 for that turbo i have used one off another garrett GT and machined it out extensively porting and polishing it in the process, making a 4" outlet for it to match the full 4" system i plan on manufacturing. Why 4" some may ask? Because i have the materials and i am chasing every hp i can get.
You are right about the injectors, i will see how it goes when i get to that stage and upgrade them if i need to, its one thing to buy all the best parts and build the best engine i can but its another to really make the power in the end... Im not going to say i will make 500hp from it, though i aim too, what it actually makes is another thing...
Might sell the malpassi and upgrade if they have such a bad reputation!

[twin eng, twin turbs]

A little engine eye candy!

Techtonics Tuning cam gear and Autotech itermediate gear

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/eng1-1.jpg

Supertech valve springs

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/eng2-1.jpg

Bosche 044 pump and K & N fuel filter

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/eng3-1.jpg

ARP bolts and polished oil filler cap

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/eng4-1.jpg

Supertech oversize inlet and exhaust valves

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/eng5-1.jpg

[richo]

nice goodies there marty, keep the pics coming :)

[mrlex]

Wow! another inspiring project from you mate, can't wait to see the process pics.

[roccodingo]

Hopefully a gander at this project ( also a long term job) will fire up some enthusiasm...

Mid VR6 MKI Scirocco (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2636625-Mid-VR6-MKI-Scirocco)

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Hopefully a gander at this project ( also a long term job) will fire up some enthusiasm...

Mid VR6 MKI Scirocco (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2636625-Mid-VR6-MKI-Scirocco)

I just go half a chubby reading that entire thread, the aluminium controls arms oh yeah! It gets me thinking....

Heres a pic of the Pauter '' X'' beam connecting rods for my rocco. Far better than the cheap "H'' beam chinese ones available...

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/001-1.jpg

[Jarred]

schexy!!

you coming to nats again this year Marty?

[twin eng, twin turbs]

schexy!!

you coming to nats again this year Marty?

I sure am! Wakefeild aswell if i can save enough in time, gota get the MK2 GTI tuned again...

[DubSteve]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/001-1.jpg


Frack yeah, this needs to be posted again!

[Golf Loon]

I sure am! Wakefeild aswell if i can save enough in time, gota get the MK2 GTI tuned again...

Get your entry in mate. Time is running out.
Matt

[Jmac]

Im so looking forward to see this animal coming together, great to see this kind of enthusiasm still exists. Wont get to say hello this year mate not going to make it down. Next year for sure. Ill be keeping an eye on this one
Cheers
Jmac

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Cheers J mac, i have some big plans for this project that will come to light in time...

I got stuck into dynamically balancing the crank, front pulley, flywheel and clutch last night.

Once i had machined the knife edge on the factory forged 92.8mm stroke 2 litre crank i linished the main and big end bearings. Then i balanced the crank by itself. It was out of balance by 23.4 grams at the flywheel end and 18.6 grams at the front. By linishing the weight off in the correct positions i brought it back to 0.1 grams at either end. I added the front pulleys, flywheel and clutch pressure plate to the crank and balanced them together. The ultralite 4340 flywheel and clutch were 16.2 grams out and the front pulleys were 4.8 grams out, after carefully linishing off the unbalanced areas the assembly was within 0.1 of a gram balance in all 360 degrees of rotation. The total weight of this assembly would be far less than a standard setup though i do not know by how much.. Forgot to bring my camera into the workshop though to get some picks on the balancer... You can see in the photos where i have removed weight on the flywheel though.

Most standard factory crank shafts are within 4-5 grams of balance, the best i have seen was a BMW M3 crank 1.4 grams out and the worst was an aftermarket 355stroker crank for a bommadore that was 487.3 grams out and through itself off the dynamic balancer!

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/nats2010089-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/nats2010088-2.jpg

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Titanium valve spring retainers and autometer fuel pressure gauge to be mounted on the new fuel pressure regulator... sold the malpassi!
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/015-2.jpg

[richo]

top stuff marty! that crank looks ridiculous!

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Thanks Richo! Some pics of the bodywork... A lot of hours have gone into it and its far from ready for paint yet! I cut and filed this vent into the bonnet on the drivers side.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/008-3.jpg

Here is the drivers side front guard with the original bodykit pumped out 15mm bolted and fibreglassed into the guard along with the side skirt and those who know roccos will spot the bottom corner of the door has an additional steel strip welded on to remove the step in it and blend it into the same profile.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/009-1.jpg

Heres the rear wing, it has the original 83 model steel frame of the wing inside it beneath the fibreglass and aluminium tube frame work.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/010-2.jpg

The side mirrors have been modified also with aluminium sheet giving the basic profile and approximately 4mm of fibreglass over the top.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/011-2.jpg

[gldgti]

Wow Marty, this really is something. Very impressed. And, yes, that crank is crazy :-)

[Jarred]

*runs and gets pop corn*...

[twin eng, twin turbs]

More goodies... JE forged pistons 83.5mm diameter, the machining on these is so nice its almost sexual!
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/0171-2.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/0181-2.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/06/0191-2.jpg

[DubSteve]

Damm they look so good!

[twin eng, twin turbs]

I am trying to decide how to do the S3 driveline and would like everyones opinion on the setup of the rear suspension with the haldex and differential. I have quite a few options really though i aim to have it handle as well as i can and keep the car as light as possible... Please post up pics and or links to awesome builds threads

Option #1: Original rear trailing arm with stub axles cut off and hubs mounted to it, suspension struts mounted offset to clear drive shafts and haldex / differential on fabricated mounts.. probably the lightest option..

Option #2: Use the complete S3 suspension setup i have and rear subframe for mounting the haldex / differential. Fabricate mounts for it, custom coilovers and modified trailing arms.. Heaviest option..

Option #3: Purchase Mk2 syncro rear subframe and hubs and modifiy it to suit haldex setup and fabricate mounts..

Option #4: The cool option.. fabricate a complete independant suspension setup and haldex / differential mounts from aluminium and polish it all up. The most expensive and time consuming option for sure...

[richo]

Option #5: Leave it FWD and don't try and pull so much HP out of it!
Sorry bro, couldn't help myself :stupid:

[GoLfMan]

i recon option 4 :D


Option #5: Leave it FWD and don't try and pull so much HP out of it!
Sorry bro, couldn't help myself :stupid:

your boring

[richo]

i recon option 4 :D



your boring

ha true, but i've been seeing this thing unfinished for 12 years and reckon the less delays the better :P

[twin eng, twin turbs]

ha true, but i've been seeing this thing unfinished for 12 years and reckon the less delays the better :P

HA! Just for that bro Option 4 has it cheers GoLfMan.

I made something today that i think may be a totally original performance modification... I havn't seen anyone else make a hollow steel intermediate shaft before, though i may be wrong? Weight of original VAG shaft 1256 grams, weight of custom shaft 693 grams. Stainless Steel tubing with 2mm wall thickness is used for the main body with drilled out lengths of 4340 steel tig welded on the ends and machined between centres to original dimensions. I made one of these for my MK2 turbo 8v a couple of years back aswell.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/07/042-1.jpg

[gldgti]

I've never seen one on the web - i'm sure it would at least be original in so far as you can't buy one - but as you know, there are a lot of golf tuners out there, someone might have done it before.

Needless to say, good job anyhow. Can I ask - where/how/what did you do for the gear end? Is it bolted on?

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Needless to say, good job anyhow. Can I ask - where/how/what did you do for the gear end? Is it bolted on?[/QUOTE]

Thanks, the gear has 0.04mm interference on the shaft. I heated the gear to 200 degrees which is not hot enough to soften it or change the grain structure of it and press fitted it to the shaft. I ran a weld around it with the tig aswell.

[twin eng, twin turbs]

I setup my wilwood six piston front calipers today on a face plate and machined them down on the lathe removing the "wilwood" casting and creating a better starting point for polishing them and also clearance for wheels in the future.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/07/0051-2.jpg

[Jarred]

oh only six pots... bah....

:O

[DubSteve]

Make sure your harness is done strapped in with those brakes you will go through the front window!

[jayjay]

Make sure your harness is done strapped in with those brakes you will go through the front window!

x2. you'll probably also go through the back window with that motor, if you dont strap in!

[Preen59]

Brakes are only as good as the tyres. :P

Nice work there, Marty.

[16v_kid]

Wow!

Just went through the whole thread. Love your work dude.

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Thanks guys, obviously i need to run some serious discs to match the calipers so i got a set of alcon race ready burnished 2 piece discs.
PR3000 and PR2000 series.
328mm diameter X 32mm thick front and 302mm diameter X 26mm thick rear. I will probably machine up new aluminium centres to suit the required offset for the calipers in the future.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/07/025-2.jpg

[DubSteve]

God damm so much win, me likey!

[twin eng, twin turbs]

My inlet manifold i made some time ago with the intention of running a front mount intercooler but due to the gains and efficiency of a water to air intercooler i changed my mind so the throttle body flange pictured below at an angle will be removed in favour of a new style which is the peice pictured between the manifold and throttle body. It will be seamless with the throttle body and run straight accross the engine bay into the water to air intercooler.

The manifold has 57mm tapered inlet runners belmouthed at the 100mm diameter plenum. The throttle body i have machined from scratch with a 80mm butterfly and 76mm inlet to suit my water to air intercooler outlet. It has a brass butterfly and the throttle shaft runs on ball bearings with wiper seals to seal properly.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/08/0011-1.jpg

[Jarred]

sounds pretty trick marty! keep it up

[DubSteve]

Looking great there Marty :)

[dubbed_up_daz]

stunning fab skills :o spec sounds beastly :)

[twin eng, twin turbs]

So i finally got around to doing a little more work on the manifold heres a couple of pics. Once i have fully linished down the welds and polished it will look the goods but this straight after welding it.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/157-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/158-1.jpg

I tig welded up a mates PWR water to air intercooler for his EVO 3 aswell today adding the bend, mounting bracket and 4" outlet. Note the weld bead on the end of the 3" tubing to ensure the silicon hose dosn't blow off. My water to air for the rocco flows twice the volume of this core!

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/155-1.jpg

[gldgti]

just a straight plenum inside ther marty or have you sneaked in some kind of baffle for flow distribution? Raised ports or not?

[Preen59]

That's a water to air intercooler. It's basically just a high flow heat exchanger.. :)

[twin eng, twin turbs]

The inlet manifold has no baffles though the runners are bellmouthed for improved flow.

For the radiator i am using a 620 x 500 x 70mm triple core unit which removes the need for an expansion tank which will help keep the engine bay neat. I machined up an alloy cap to cover the steel one aswell.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/10/003-2.jpg

A 30 row oil cooler 300 x 230 x 50mm should handle keeping oil temps down easily.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/10/0042-2.jpg

The water to air intercooler flows 1500hp max, with a core size of 260 x 230 x 110mm and 3" inlet and outlet pipes on the end tanks.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/10/0053-3.jpg

A small radiator will cool the water to air intercoolers core measuring 260 x 230 x 50mm with pump controlled by the computer with temp sender switching it on and off.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/10/0022-3.jpg

[Jarred]

this beast is going to be kept cooler than my house!~

[thestu]

Grouse project! :D

[hitoriko]

i would ahte to see the cost so far... - keep it wup though i love crazy builds!

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Found an interesting fact out today about my rocco, its actually a limited wolfsburg edition 1/2 Scirocco. In 83 with the mono wiper, tilt and slide sunroof and wolfsburg decals.

So who wants to see what happens to a mint shell when 9" of metabo angle grinder is unleashed on the floor pan.... :monkeypiss:

[Volksee77]

i don't really want to see any grinder smashing a VW to pieces but i suppose sometimes it's for the best to combat the tin worm

[richo]

marty pls keep this as a "scirocco turbo project" and not a "scirocco quattro turbo project"; hacking up that floor is almost a crime!

[adonventer]

can you please hurry up and get it done, i need some ideas but wants to start sometime this year. it will break my heart to cut up a scirocco as i owned a mk1 and just love them, but i reckon what you are about to do is putting it on steroids so it is called upgrading. good luck with the project.

[adonventer]

if i may ask why are you not using the standard big port intake manifold. vw designed that manifold with sound waves and it works well with turbo setups. we have tried many different manifolds and the standard one still performed better. i am not trying to tell you what to do just want to know what your opinion is on the thought as i myself am never happy with the standard product and always modifies every thing i touch. its good to see i am not the only one going for big hp and there are more than just me to prove that a vw motor can be as good as any other.soon my friend will start installing his 16v turbo motor into a beetle, we might meet up with you someday to go and kick some butt.

[twin eng, twin turbs]

I realise VW did a great job with the tuned length inlet runners on the 16v manifold optimising power and torque accross the rev range for the naturally asperated engine. I didn't just go for a short runner turbo manifold though the runners on mine are also mathmatically formulated from a performance engine building book to suit the cams profile, port size, capacity, compression etc etc tuned to suit top end power and torque without reducing the bottom end to much... Its a compromise. Ill be running the water to air intercooler pictured on a previous page above the gearbox and straight into the inlet manifold keeping the airflow path as short and efficent as possible, by keeping the volume of air between the turbo and inlet manifold to a minimum drivabilty is improved and turbo lag reduced.

[adonventer]

well all the best with your build and good work.

[sports racer]

Any update?

[Dub Toffee]

looking like a great build mate hows it going?

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Its been ages since i have posted though I will complete this project, i have been owner building a new house with seven car garage underneath for all my toys ;) and once complete the progress will come along...

[Jarred]

Pics of the garage, STAT!