VW rated 3rd worst in most reliable car makers list

[geojack555]

Check this out! I thought VW was much better than this; but this is the fact--
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-most-reliable-cars-20100319-qjc6.html

[Sharkie]

yeah, saw that too .... not good ... so much for trying to be a premium brand .... :rolleyes:

[freddyt]

Makes me think about cancelling the GTI order and getting a ford or hyundai.
I won't enjoy it if I constantly have to bring it back for faults................

[Stump]

Yes, but when you think about it, most people would not wish to let on they even owned some of the top brands..Lincoln, Buick, Mercury...:P
Let alone, letting on they had a problem...:banana:
Maybe we just report more things because we're fussy buggers, and LOVE our cars to be right. :cool:

[hcvo1]

Just remember that this is a US report it does not reflect what happens in Australia

[MurphyTheElf]

Maybe we just report more things because we're fussy buggers, and LOVE our cars to be right. :cool:


You could be onto something. VW is more of a bridging marque between the budget brands and the true luxury brands. Many customers buying VW are looking for luxury, but they are still on a budget. This comes with certain expectations - squeaks and rattles that may be acceptable or even expected on a lower-end budget car are suddenly unacceptable because the wallet has been hit that little bit more.

Or maybe the problems reported in the forums are more widespread than we'd hoped. :rolleyes:

[nau]

Check this out! I thought VW was much better than this; but this is the fact--
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-most-reliable-cars-20100319-qjc6.html

Im very skeptical about it ... didnt ToYoTa had 2 massive recalls recently and yet they are top5 (or they think that its not a problem when some one admits that there is a problem?)

and Im sorry I lived in Canada for a while and drove few US cars(Lincoln, Fords Cadilacs) ... and Im sorry they just falling in to peaces after 2-3 years


EDIT:
Just saw KIA there in a middle and PONTIAC - have u ever driven a PONTIAC????? ... its like driving a can with leather inside
(all tho I have to say Im very impressed with the latest KIA 7 year warranty even if its limited)

[markwid]

Makes me think about cancelling the GTI order and getting a ford or hyundai.
I won't enjoy it if I constantly have to bring it back for faults................

I can only reference from personal experience of owning Golf Mk4 and Mk5. I wouldn't say there are no problems at all but over the 4 years of running these 2 cars, it has been mostly problem free and where there was a problem it was minor.

Speaking of Hyundai, I test-drove the i30 2.0L petrol recently as a lot of reviews have commended it. Quite happily surprised, I must say. It has improved a lot compared to earlier models. Do have some negatives that I can't live with. The steering is too light and lifeless that I don't know what the car is doing when cornering. The 2.0L engine is lethargic and just doesn't like revving. In that sense, a Golf Mk5 2.0 FSI beats the i30 hands down.

[jessv3]

This result isnt surprising at all. Every one knows how reliable toyota and lexus's are and how unreliable german cars can be. But thats not why we buy them, right?

[freddyt]

Yeah but we pay a premium for a worse product??
Sure I think VW drivers are often enthusiasts so can be picky and lets face it who gets on a forum and raves about their Hyundai Getz or Toyota Corolla.
VW could use it as a wake up perhaps...................

[xblode]

I wouldn't even bother reading these results.

If you bought a Hyundai Getz and a piece of trim was not lined up 100%, you'll more than likely just live with it. If you are $50k lighter in the pocket and your dream car's trim isn't right, I guarantee you'll be at the dealer asap.

Another way, are you more than likely to complain about a BigMac for a few dollars or that $50 steak they charcoaled?

[xblode]

Yeah but we pay a premium for a worse product??
Sure I think VW drivers are often enthusiasts so can be picky and lets face it who gets on a forum and raves about their Hyundai Getz or Toyota Corolla.
VW could use it as a wake up perhaps...................

LOL! just as I was typing Getz too!

[Corey_R]

Yeah - although there is another thread on here discussing a rather concerning topic, this thread and the results do not concern me at all.

This is not a 'reliability' study - although SMH called it that. The people doing the study said it was a register of "Problems per 100 vehicles" out of a defined list of "198 problems".

So what is a problem?
A customer bumps a button on the dash and causes the CD player to just play the first 10 seconds of each song and they don't know how to turn it off? I mean, that's a problem, it could show up on this result.

It's very different to reliability - parts failing of the car, trim breaking, gearboxes failing etc.

[geojack555]

Yeah - although there is another thread on here discussing a rather concerning topic, this thread and the results do not concern me at all.

This is not a 'reliability' study - although SMH called it that. The people doing the study said it was a register of "Problems per 100 vehicles" out of a defined list of "198 problems".

So what is a problem?
A customer bumps a button on the dash and causes the CD player to just play the first 10 seconds of each song and they don't know how to turn it off? I mean, that's a problem, it could show up on this result.

It's very different to reliability - parts failing of the car, trim breaking, gearboxes failing etc.


But we wouldn't know what was in the list....I had a bad experience with my VW golf, had to replace the DSG in first 4 months! So it could be a mix of both..

[4wheels]

No relevance for us I think. Aren't most American VW's made in America by Americans (or is it Mexico).

Brian.

[nicandlance]

My car was only 4 weeks off and written off by hail, but I have to say that I was loving my Golf so far. Smooth, quiet and zippy - didn't compare to anything else I had driven in the past......
Every car is going to have it's faults (like the Beetle I had before hand), but the Golf was looking to be a long term prospect.

I am fairly pedantic... was looking for rattles, trim detail, the works.... everything was dandy until the hail.... DOHHHH!

[hoi polloi]

Yeah but we pay a premium for a worse product??
Sure I think VW drivers are often enthusiasts so can be picky and lets face it who gets on a forum and raves about their Hyundai Getz or Toyota Corolla.
VW could use it as a wake up perhaps...................

That's right - I once owned a Toyota Corolla and it ran like a swiss watch until the day I traded it in... The problem with it was it was as boring to drive as can be - this being long after tightening emissions standards killed off the Corollas with more exciting (read powerful) engines at least...

People just fell asleep when I told them I went 130,000km of driving mainly on city and suburban Sydney roads on the first set of brake pads... So no, nothing really interesting about it whatsoever...

Regards,
- Anthony.

[NiekSavio]

VW has been the leading brand in Europe for many years and if the product was really that bad then why are sales going through the roof after all these years? I think it's more a case of Euro bashing once again. Sure, all car makes have problems and VW is not exempted from that.

[Mk6 GTI]

Sadly.. my mk4 gave me hell so i can see where they could be coming from..

I really hope this GTI proves to be the opposite or i dont think i will ever get one again..

I do agree about the jap cars being a bore to drive.

Id would still rather be in VW :P

[Corey_R]

Sadly.. my mk4 gave me hell so i can see where they could be coming from..

Yeah - I had a friend who got a MK4 when it first game out. It spent the majority of the first 4 months in the dealer having numerous issues (mostly electrical) being resolved.

In the end the MK4 ended up being considered a very reliable and well built car. So it must've just taken them a while to figure things out or something :)

[Coxy09]

I see they say nothing about Alfa romeo, must be cause they are so good:emo_baghead:

[markwid]

That's right - I once owned a Toyota Corolla and it ran like a swiss watch until the day I traded it in... The problem with it was it was as boring to drive as can be

The boring bit is a real problem for Toyota - it took a long time and a change of guard at the top to recognize the issue. I believe the new Toyota chief has stated that new Toyota cars are to be designed to be exciting to drive.

[VW Convert]

Makes me think about cancelling the GTI order and getting a ford or hyundai.
I won't enjoy it if I constantly have to bring it back for faults................

Don't talk about it, do it. we'll sit back and wait to see how you feel about it in a year or two.

Cheers

George

[Corey_R]

The boring bit is a real problem for Toyota - it took a long time and a change of guard at the top to recognize the issue. I believe the new Toyota chief has stated that new Toyota cars are to be designed to be exciting to drive.

Well I guess not being able to stop your car from accelerating is one way to get the heart racing ;)

[VW Convert]

Check this out! I thought VW was much better than this; but this is the fact--
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-most-reliable-cars-20100319-qjc6.html

To quote a famous saying attributed (correctly or otherwise) to Benjamin Disraeli, there are lies, there are damned lies and then there are statistics.

You can make statisitcs support any argument you would like to promote, not necessarily will you see the truth.

Cheers

George

[nau]

Yeah - I had a friend who got a MK4 when it first game out.:)
I have to say if my Golf6 will be the same as my Golf4 was I will be more thn happy

had no major issues with my 4 ... few minor fuk ups but over all it was fantastic

but yeh on a topic ... would be really nice to see methodology for the "test"

[Coaster]

Ford & Mazda, BMW & Mini have shared the same tech for many years, yet achieve completely different results.
I've seen Mazda come out on top of similar surveys, yet are 8th last in this survey. For example:

Mazda wins JD Power’s 2009 Australian Vehicle Ownership Satisfaction Study
http://www.theautoindustrieblog.com/2009/06/mazda-wins-jd-powers-2009-australian.html
This clearly demonstrates that using the US survey to gain an understanding of Australian vehicles is a waste of time.
Also interesting to note in the Aus survey is that MB, Peugeot, VW & Suzuki were included in the survey but not ranked due to the small sample size.

[Frankenstrat]

You should be very cautious when it comes to survey results. Usually they are taken from a small population and can be skewed by the people conducting the survey.

An example: Channel 7 state on Today Tonight that "95% of people support..." whatever.

That's 95% of people who:
a) view Channel 7 in that capital city
b) watch Today Tonight
c) could be bothered responding to the phone-in survey

It proves nothing.

In my household, 50% drive white cars
100% drive non-Australian cars
100% have 5-door cars

What can you deduce from that? Not much really. But supposing those results were published: "100% of Australians in a survey drive imported 5-door cars".

[cube_3]

[QUOTE=nau;479823]Im very skeptical about it ... didnt ToYoTa had 2 massive recalls recently and yet they are top5 (or they think that its not a problem when some one admits that there is a problem?)

As I understand it this survey is based on cars that are 3 years old i.e. how have they been like to live with etc for the last 3 years. So they should be 2007 models. The surveys would have been done before all the toyota problems surfaced. Toyota will probably suffer in the upcoming surveys.

[G-rig]

Maybe we just report more things because we're fussy buggers, and LOVE our cars to be right. :cool:

Fussy is the word.

[Yevvy]

i do believe that those stats are correct. after owning my vw for just under a year i ran into numerous "faults" costing almost as much as buying a second vw. i really love my car and hopefully after feeding it buckets of money it will be a true performance motor...or if this continues i'll become bankrupt (already am :().

[G-rig]

I think the newer generation VW's are much better (ie mk5-mk6), and only seems to be small niggles (besides the DSG faults).

[trueman]

Fussy is the word.
We need to be fussy when paying a premium

[G-rig]

We need to be fussy when paying a premium

That's true and i'm probably one of the fussiest, but it's still not the Audi premium by which the car wouldn't have the niggles/build issues. It's like wanting an Audi without paying for one, but the gap is being closed and VW are much better value if you can deal with the minor quirks.

Still a premium over Japanese cars etc.

[GHW]

FWIW JD powers is the benchmark for many of us working in the automotive supply (oem) industry. You can believe it.
Every car manufacturer whether they admit it or not want to be at the pointy end as does every supplier as it's worth big money due to big contracts if you fare well and (obviously) the opposite applies.

[Golf Houso]

I think the newer generation VW's are much better (ie mk5-mk6), and only seems to be small niggles (besides the DSG faults).

the older gen cars are much easier to service, you only have to look at the MKV engine mounts or window regulators to see how much more difficult they are.

Not that most people who own them atm. will ever notice

[Highlander]

FWIW JD powers is the benchmark for many of us working in the automotive supply (oem) industry. You can believe it.
Every car manufacturer whether they admit it or not want to be at the pointy end as does every supplier as it's worth big money due to big contracts if you fare well and (obviously) the opposite applies.

And I am pretty sure that if VW was at the top of the list, many members of this forum would be quite as happy to quote it as gospel.

When the Mk VI Golf range won the Wheels Car of the Year, there were plenty of proud posts on here.

When the Hyundai i30 diesel was rated by NRMA as better value than the Golf 103 TDI, we decided that the NRMA didn't know what it was talking about.

We must have disagreed too as we drove the i30 and bought the Golf.

Beauty (and Quality) it seems are in the eye of the beholder. I am a fussy car owner who changes my cars each 3-5 years and I think they are usually in better condition when they leave me than the day I purchased them.

Toyotas are cheap and bulletproof. VW charge a good premium for the Golf over other cars in its class and I expect the car to be best in class in all ways for the honour of forking over that premium.

Better to drive and as or more reliable than cheaper makes.

I would chip our VWs but the talk of DSG failures on this forum alone is enough to stop me doing anything for a year or so to see that those problems have been ironed out. Even the long term Skoda run by wheels magazine had to have its DSG replaced because of collapsed bearings in the first 6 months of its life (a problem which Skoda/VW say has now been rectified). Cringe, Cringe at Skoda/VW I am sure as Wheels expressed concerns about the long term reliability of the marque.

If I was selling a make against VW I would have these surveys and tests lying around my waiting room. VW has to hate them and I can only summise that the decision to relocate Mk VI Golf manufacture to Germany had more to it than reduced manufacturing costs as its bread and butter Golf was receiving less than favourable quality reports in many quarters of the world.

The "rumours" were enough to make us hold off for the Mk VI and so far its done 19800Km in 9 months and apart from being immobilised for a short while while the MFD told us every globe in the vehicle was blown, it hasn't missed a beat, looks brand new and is an absolute pleasure to drive. We hope it stays that way

It's my daughter's car and she travels a lot for business and is in and out of a variety of hire cars and she always loves the drive back home from the airport in her Golf.

I suppose an interesting exercise would be a poll to see that, amongst those that intend to keep their cars more than three years, who intends to take out extended warranty and those who don't. Good indication of owner confidence in the model I would say.

[G-rig]

the older gen cars are much easier to service, you only have to look at the MKV engine mounts or window regulators to see how much more difficult they are.

Not that most people who own them atm. will ever notice

Having something less than four years old is probably the key and eliminates a bit of trouble shooting. I had a B5 A4 that was a pretty big money pit.

[dave_r]

Makes me think about cancelling the GTI order and getting a ford or hyundai.
I won't enjoy it if I constantly have to bring it back for faults................

LOL, not going to read the rest of the thread given that it is 4 pages long but I'd still take the chance with the VW!

Fords (Aussie built at least) are RUBBISH and when you have a problem, the muppets they have working on them are even worse! I could write a book on the topic!

I can't say I've had any negative experience with respect to VW reliability and service compared to what I have with the 2 big aussie names.

[trueman]

LOL, not going to read the rest of the thread given that it is 4 pages long but I'd still take the chance with the VW!

Fords (Aussie built at least) are RUBBISH and when you have a problem, the muppets they have working on them are even worse! I could write a book on the topic!

I can't say I've had any negative experience with respect to VW reliability and service compared to what I have with the 2 big aussie names.

Well Just looked at ford fiesta (german made). Not bad for sub 20K with way more options(bluetooth , voice control etc) than std GTI!!!! for twice the price. Obviously a different car but compared to entry level polo its hard to go past.

[G-rig]

Yeah it's pathetic that Bluetooth & usb/ipod isn't standard now on VW's .. Maybe in 2011!

[trueman]

Cheaper brand vs VW perhaps

"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."

[PassatB6]

JD Power nonsense. Check out Warranty Direct for real reliability figures, not owner complaint surveys masquerading a reliability studies. 250,000 + vehicles rated on actual repairs not owner opinions.

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/

Back to JDP
Look at their definition of Initial Quality
Initial Quality: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction, or where controls or features may work as designed, but are difficult to use or understand.

i.e it all works fine but because it might be complicated for anyone who hasn't read the manual or has difficulty with a new technology then this is defined as a manufacturer problem.

and also this nonsense about being able to "predict" vehicle reliability:

Predicted Reliability: Derived from historical trending for a vehicle and/or manufacturer in our Initial Quality and Vehicle Dependability Studies, Predicted Reliability is a forecast of how reliable a newer vehicle might be over time.

I just don't get what all the fuss is about JD Power's opinions.

[nau]

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/


mmmmmmm... how can I put it ....
top 10
Rank Car Make Index Rating

1 SUZUKI 31.13
2 HONDA 33.17
3 MAZDA 53.5
4 TOYOTA 56.22
5 SKODA 58.87
6 SMART 66.4
7 CITROEN 66.61
8 HYUNDAI 66.97
9 NISSAN 70.02
10 FORD 70.71

Worst 10
Rank Car Make Index Rating

1 JEEP 231.09
2 PORSCHE 221.39
3 LANDROVER 213.73
4 ALFA ROMEO 158.4
5 CHRYSLER 155.61
6 JAGUAR 146.13
7 AUDI 142.35
8 MG 131.08
9 MERCEDES 129.89
10 SAAB 126.12

how did all the top brands end up at the bottom?

[AdamD]

how did all the top brands end up at the bottom?

Well, the Japanese brands like Honda, Toyota and Mazda are a pretty sure bet for reliability in many of the more prominent surveys I've read over the years. And based on experience, a survey that places Alfa Romeo well down the order sounds right on the money to me. ;)

Skoda's up there too. And just see these results from their website:


2009: (UK) Škoda named Best Car Manufacturer 2009,
JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey
2009: (UK) Škoda Superb named 2nd Best Car of the Year,
JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey
2009: (UK) Octavia named 3rd Best Car of the Year,
JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey
2008: (UK) Škoda 2nd overall, in top 5 for last 13 years,
JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey
2007: (UK) Škoda Best Manufacturer,
Top Gear Reader’s Poll


And Skodas are pure VW under the skin. Results like that suggest the mechanical fundamentals are sound. I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest difference between Skoda, VW and Audi in terms of quality is buyer perceptions and expectations.

[MurphyTheElf]

Notice how Suzuki and Porsche are at completely opposite positions on the two indexes? How can we possibly believe either of them?

[G-rig]

Seems like Skodas are built slightly better than VW's, maybe they take an extra bit of care? Still not as desireable or look quite right yet but very promising (I wouldnt mind a new VR sedan though) .

[PassatB6]

I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest difference between Skoda, VW and Audi in terms of quality is buyer perceptions and expectations.

Bingo! Expectations and perception seems to me to be the major reason. That is why Skoda is high, VW is middle and AUDI is low. Expectations go up and ratings therefore go down. Many parts are shared.



mmmmmmm... how can I put it ....
how did all the top brands end up at the bottom?

Because the ratings are affected by repair costs.


Notice how Suzuki and Porsche are at completely opposite positions on the two indexes? How can we possibly believe either of them?

One is about actual repairs, while the other (JDP) is about owners perceptions. Owners perception of a problem is affected by initial cost, expectation, manufacturer reputation etc. IMHO its a less objective measure.

[Hooligan]

Vw owns porsche the most reliable car in the world that is built in Germany.
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-most-reliable-cars-20100319-qjc6.html

The Vw cars that are in those statistics the most are the brazilian Mexican
built Vw not the German ones.

[nicandlance]

We had a Mazda for years and it was a terrific car... really loved it. Reliable, nice to drive, gripped the road really well. I was actually tossing up between the Mazda 3 and the Golf this time around..... (of course, I also loved my Golf for the short time I had it), but you only need to look at any forum on any car to find discontent with one thing or another.

[PassatB6]

Found JD Power's 2009 Owner satisfaction Survey results for the UK. A completely different result from the US one reported earlier yet many of the cars are the same. VW 13th top manufacturer and above industry average.

Small family sedans VAG models got 4 out of the top 10 spots!

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-owner-satisfaction-2009/small-family-cars-1-10/240819

[Spook]

Vw owns porsche the most reliable car in the world that is built in Germany.
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-most-reliable-cars-20100319-qjc6.html

The Vw cars that are in those statistics the most are the brazilian Mexican
built Vw not the German ones.

Hmmm.. will be shopping for a wagon soon for the growing family. Should I be worried about the Golf wagon?

[jj77]

Hmmm.. will be shopping for a wagon soon for the growing family. Should I be worried about the Golf wagon?

The VW dealer (where I ordered my new Golf) told me that Golf wagon is cheaper than Golf we know because they are Mexican built and some other reasons I can't remember.

...
Prior to my Polo (now waiting for new Golf 118TSI), I had Honda, Hyundai, Mazda, and Holden (for a short while). But since my Polo, I will never drive any other brand but VW (to be more specific Polo or Golf).

J