MKVI GTI ECU Upgrade...Which is Best?

[PAPA GTI]

Hi All,

Just bought a new GTI Mk6 DSG and am loving it......However, I am looking to upgrade the ECU to get a little more pace and torque.

Has anyone done an ECU upgrade to the Mk6 (or MK 5) GTi and is it responding well, especially with a DSG gearbox?.

I am considering to flash the ECU with APR's software, however I understand that their is oettinger, GIAC etc.... and all work differently.

Some advice on which is better would be a great help.

I do understand that APR upgrades give almost factory like increase to performance. Though is it value for money and why would I not choose this software over something else?

Cheers
Papa GTI

[elisiX]

All much of a muchness in the end but personally, i've only used APR.

Reason? Guy can be contacted directly and will stand by his product.

Even if it is a little defensive at times. I trust what they're doing.

[fuzion]

GIAC & Unitronic seemed to have the higest output of power at the last K04 Dyno Day and Sydney Dyno Day's amongst other dyno results i have read.

You have UNITRONIC, APR, REVO, Bluefin and GIAC for choices.

Its a matter of preference.

I know what i would be personally choosing however it wouldn't be what you mentioned from experience with them.

And elis, i can show you 3 people who he did 'not' stand with his product where they all went to rival companies mentioned above.

[elisiX]

P I am sure that there are crap loads of examples of things going wrong and people going to other tuners.

It's just that in my experience Guy has always been around, the products well known and it has run flawlessly on my TT.

[Lams]

not this again...

[Corey_R]

Oh jesus - another one of these threads! lol

These go about as well as a thread discussing which religion is the best!

[noone]

procedure for choosing a tune:

1: be aware of warranty issues, if you are overly concerned about your warranty, dont do it.

2 Gather some dyno / power / features / other specs on each of the tunes you have in mind. If you don't plan on making any other engine mods, not much more to think about really.

3: think about what other people say about various brands and brand reps

4: talk to the company you think you want to do your tune. if you feel a connection and there would be support in the event of something going wrong

5: Just do it, it will be better than what you have now and the difference between the 2 'fastest' ones will be much less than the difference between 2 drivers capabilities.

[iBoost]

I'm probably going to go with APR when I get mine as they seem to have the most customers and support on forums like this.

The REVO seems to be cheaper and give more power but I've heard you can't switch programs back to stock without buying the switch to toggle this. Maybe someone here can elaborate...

Also, from reading on US forums I've heard that the Mark VI ECU can't be flashed without being removed first. There's been some talk about it being obvious the ECU has been tampered with unless you replace the screws which were removed with new ones.

[Tim]

Also, from reading on US forums I've heard that the Mark VI ECU can't be flashed without being removed first. There's been some talk about it being obvious the ECU has been tampered with unless you replace the screws which were removed with new ones.

Guy can probably clarify but based on his post in this thread http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=41008
It looks as though they are removing the ECU and bench flashing it on mk6 GTIs as well. Im not aware of a company that can flash the new ECUs direct though the diagnostics port.
I could be wrong though? depends on what sort of plug is on the end of the cable i guess?

[Tim]

looks like this thread here shows the process in action
http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4742085

Again correct me if im wrong. But this is my understanding of the current situation. Just trying to correct the misinformation not create more.

[fuzion]

Guy can probably clarify but based on his post in this thread http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=41008
It looks as though they are removing the ECU and bench flashing it on mk6 GTIs as well. Im not aware of a company that can flash the new ECUs direct though the diagnostics port.
I could be wrong though? depends on what sort of plug is on the end of the cable i guess?

pretty much spot on dude..

either way at the end of the day, its WHO you choose and WHO you want to go with.

opinions are opinions, go with who you think is best for you and who is closest.

[Guy_H]

Depending on build date, the method will vary! VW is retrospectively re-flashing 1024 bit encryption onto earlier build cars. All 15 APR dealers now have the new tools to do all models regardless of build date.

As far as i know there have only been two MKVI's on dyno's around the country, mine & Derek's (from European Autotech www.europeanautotech.com.au).

Since you are in NSW, pop in & see Derek & you can see his own MKVI demo car.

Look for some pictures shortly of our MKVI buildup!

Also when looking at dyno plots, look at the power curves, and more importantly, the torque curves. It's not peak numbers you should concentrate on :)

[iBoost]

Thanks for the info Guy. I'll definitely drop in and see Derek, unfortunately I won't have the car until June though. :)

[HereGoes]

Bugger no Blufin any more...

I just wanted a little bit of extra grunt to play with and i could justify $1,000 doing it but now you are talk almost double that for APR plus the risks with new car Warranty. It is fast becoming just not worth it really :(

[Maverick]

Bugger no Blufin any more...

I just wanted a little bit of extra grunt to play with and i could justify $1,000 doing it but now you are talk almost double that for APR plus the risks with new car Warranty. It is fast becoming just not worth it really :(

The benefit of the APR system is that you can switch on the fly to stock mode if the car is being serviced. Plus if the power is disconnected say after an accident or an electrical problem the car is back in stock mode with no way to tell that it's been flashed unless you enter the code (optional feature).

[KWICKS]

Since you are in NSW, pop in & see Derek & you can see his own MKVI demo car.
I spotted it on the road the other day heading up Mona Vale Road at 5:30pm-ish. Looks flashy.

[Corey_R]

Depending on build date, the method will vary! VW is retrospectively re-flashing 1024 bit encryption onto earlier build cars. All 15 APR dealers now have the new tools to do all models regardless of build date.


The benefit of the APR system is that you can switch on the fly to stock mode if the car is being serviced. Plus if the power is disconnected say after an accident or an electrical problem the car is back in stock mode with no way to tell that it's been flashed unless you enter the code (optional feature).

But now that these new VW's (and older cars depending on whether VW have 'retrospectively re-flashed with 1024 bit encryption') need to have the ECU physically removed to be flashed on a bench with the new APR equipment, is there actually any point to the 'security lock out' feature of the APR? Like if the dealers can tell the flash has been done just by looking at the screens on the ECU module/cover ?!

[Lima]

"MKVI GTI ECU Upgrade...Which is Best?"

GIAC is best.

I read it on the internet.

[Tim]

"MKVI GTI ECU Upgrade...Which is Best?"

GIAC is best.

I read it on the internet.

haha i know youre takin the piss but GIAC hasnt even released their MK6 GTI upgrade yet. As usual they arent first to the market but as you say im sure they will be the best :P

[Qikas]

..is there actually any point to the 'security lock out' feature of the APR? Like if the dealers can tell the flash has been done just by looking at the screens on the ECU module/cover ?!

A security lock-out feature could make it easier to spot, maybe more so than tell-tale signs the ECU had been removed or tampered with. If the OEM ECU numbers don’t show up on their diagnostic equip (happens with some generic maps), then that’s obvious. ...they could also hold the cruise control button for a few seconds too, just to check :confused:

[fuzion]

Go with what suits you and whoever is closest.

At the end of the day, everyone has their opinion who they think is better, and how they're car feels to them..

GIAC
UNITRONIC
APR
REVO

your money, your choice

at the end of it, its all the same **** !

[Maverick]

A security lock-out feature could make it easier to spot, maybe more so than tell-tale signs the ECU had been removed or tampered with. If the OEM ECU numbers don’t show up on their diagnostic equip (happens with some generic maps), then that’s obvious. ...they could also hold the cruise control button for a few seconds too, just to check :confused:

Dealers can't tell if you have the APR flash without sending the ECU away to be checked which they're not going to bother doing except in extreme cases like they suspect it's been flashed (ie higher boost).

They can't only hold down the cruise button if the security lockout hasn't been purchased, if this has been purchased there is no way they can tell it's there.

[Corey_R]

Yeah - as Maverick said, the APR ECU's security lock out feature made it impossible for the dealers to tell. Holding the cruise control does nothing if its enables.

But now that the ECU appears to need to be physically removed from the car... that's a bit more concerning.

[shaq]

If you forked out bucket loads of mula for a new Golf with new warranty, id leave the car as is till the warranty runs out, cause the car as it is is powerful enough. yes of course the more the better cause its more fun, but id wait till the warranty finishes then start modding your @ss off ! :cool:

[iBoost]

That's 6 years away shaq, I'm impatient. :D

And besides, I'll probably only have the car 3 - 4 years. Chip is going on it for sure, just a matter of which one.

[Guy_H]

APR still undetectable & security lockout (if you purchase it) still works!

[Lima]

haha i know youre takin the piss but GIAC hasnt even released their MK6 GTI upgrade yet. As usual they arent first to the market but as you say im sure they will be the best :P

Yep, just fooling around. :toast:

[Qikas]

Yeah - as Maverick said, the APR ECU's security lock out feature made it impossible for the dealers to tell.

Yeah ok, wasn't sure. But what would happen if for eg, a dealer tech decided to load a complete new OEM ECU program (and the security lock out was activated)?? Would that prevent them from loading it (and make it obvious something was in there)? ..don't they have ways to check for flash counts, boost logs etc as well? dunno

[Maverick]

Yeah ok, wasn't sure. But what would happen if for eg, a dealer tech decided to load a complete new OEM ECU program (and the security lock out was activated)?? Would that prevent them from loading it (and make it obvious something was in there)? ..don't they have ways to check for flash counts, boost logs etc as well? dunno

Flash counter is the same as it was when you loaded the flash.

No boost logging (even if they did APR etc would only need to reduce the log amount by the amount of extra boost to get around it).

And they can load over the top of the APR (and other flashes) without any problems. All you do than is go back to your APR (or other flash supplier) and get them to reflash you.

The security lockout only stops you from changing programs.

[gldgti]

Flash counter is the same as it was when you loaded the flash.

No boost logging (even if they did APR etc would only need to reduce the log amount by the amount of extra boost to get around it).

.

must only be me using mechanical guages nowadays.... :-(

[logger]

But now that these new VW's (and older cars depending on whether VW have 'retrospectively re-flashed with 1024 bit encryption') need to have the ECU physically removed to be flashed on a bench with the new APR equipment... Do they need to do it on a bench? I thought it more likely the first time APR see a new ECU code they needed to see it at HQ, but now the appropriate Equip is at the 15 distributors they not longer need pull it and send it back to HQ. My guess is they can still do it in situ. Could well be wrong though.

[schoona]

Bugger no Blufin any more...

I just wanted a little bit of extra grunt to play with and i could justify $1,000 doing it but now you are talk almost double that for APR plus the risks with new car Warranty. It is fast becoming just not worth it really :(

You have just bought a mk6 GTI and dont have 2k gfor the product it deserves. ? Weird...

Im not saying buy APR, but if thats what you needed/chose as per what Fuzion said, your deciding factor is i dont have 2k....

[Corey_R]

Do they need to do it on a bench? I thought it more likely the first time APR see a new ECU code they needed to see it at HQ, but now the appropriate Equip is at the 15 distributors they not longer need pull it and send it back to HQ. My guess is they can still do it in situ. Could well be wrong though.
Guy_H would be the best person to answer, but looking at this thread (http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4742085) that Tim supplied, it looks as though they literally have to remove the ECU from the car to plug it into the new APR flashing hardware.

[Maverick]

Guy_H would be the best person to answer, but looking at this thread (http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4742085) that Tim supplied, it looks as though they literally have to remove the ECU from the car to plug it into the new APR flashing hardware.

Shouldn't be long before APR have the ability to flash via the obd port going by their past performance either I would think.

[Highlander]

APR still undetectable & security lockout (if you purchase it) still works!

Is there any logging of torque maximums through the DSG that can be accessed by VW service.

The apparent number of DSGs replaced under warranty mentioned on these forums gives me some cause for concern. Although it may not be attributable to increased torque, I am sure that the replacement debate with the dealer may be a little more difficult if 400 + NM have been logged through my TDIs DSG.

[logger]

Guy_H would be the best person to answer, but looking at this thread (http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4742085) that Tim supplied, it looks as though they literally have to remove the ECU from the car to plug it into the new APR flashing hardware. Yes I agree - He's the Man. Suspect its more a case of, they can chose to, but do not have to, remove the ECU to reflash it. Allows a customers to send their ECU to tuner without the car which would be convenient in some situations. They certainly did not have to remove the one in my MK6, but its not a GTI, its is older and its a different tune.

[Corey_R]

Is there any logging of torque maximums through the DSG that can be accessed by VW service.

The apparent number of DSGs replaced under warranty mentioned on these forums gives me some cause for concern. Although it may not be attributable to increased torque, I am sure that the replacement debate with the dealer may be a little more difficult if 400 + NM have been logged through my TDIs DSG.

I'm not sure there is to be honest.
Also, I don't think that the DSG issues are related to torque. Clutch failures sure, but not issues requiring the replacement of the DSG itself.

APR have had Stage IV GTI's (I have no idea what stage iv even is, apart from it is able to launch a GTI from 0 to 100 in about 4 seconds and do over 300kph) with DSG gearboxes, and VW themselves equiped the Scirocco 24 hour cars with the DSG - so the 6sp wet-clutch DSG can take WAAAAAAAY more than 400NM :)

[logger]

Is there any logging of torque maximums through the DSG that can be accessed by VW service.

The apparent number of DSGs replaced under warranty mentioned on these forums gives me some cause for concern. Although it may not be attributable to increased torque, I am sure that the replacement debate with the dealer may be a little more difficult if 400 + NM have been logged through my TDIs DSG.
As far as I can see the DSG controller does not log torque. On the other hand a Fault Message may get logged if certain conditions are met. A properly built tune should not place the engine or gearbox in situations where faults are generated any more so than stock.
If you were unlucky enough to have a power train issue (engine\gearbox) after an ECU tune, your first port of call should perhaps be to the tuner. They may then be in a situation to remove the tune, and clear any fault messages that may or may not be attributable to it prior to taking it to your dealer. For this reason the accessibility of your tuner down the track may be a factor when you decide who to go with.

[Tim]

Yes I agree - He's the Man. Suspect its more a case of, they can chose to, but do not have to, remove the ECU to reflash it. Allows a customers to send their ECU to tuner without the car which would be convenient in some situations. They certainly did not have to remove the one in my MK6, but its not a GTI, its is older and its a different tune.

Due to the new encryption its looking like all applicable ECUs need to be flashed on the bench. No doubt someone will crack it eventually. At this stage it looks like for GTI owners that ECU removal will be required from most tuners. Its no big deal really. It wasnt that long ago that chips were being soldered in.

[HereGoes]

You have just bought a mk6 GTI and dont have 2k gfor the product it deserves. ? Weird...

It is not about not having 2k to spend it is about cost/benefit. 1k for a little more power to play with that you will only get to use one in a while makes a lot more sense that 2k. That is a nice holiday! Priorities that is all.

[Corey_R]

It is not about not having 2k to spend it is about cost/benefit. 1k for a little more power to play with that you will only get to use one in a while makes a lot more sense that 2k. That is a nice holiday! Priorities that is all.

lol.... you shouldn't post stuff like that. It makes it very obvious that you haven't done your homework.

'A little more power' would be the BIGGEST understatement EVER about what any of these companies ECU flashes do.

Trust me, once you've gone and tried one of these, either by driving someone elses car that has already been flashed, or taking up a 'trial flash' from a company like APR, you'll understand why 'The biggest performance improvement you could perform for only $2k' would still be an understatement.

The entire reason that APR offers a security lock out and the ability to switch back to factory tuning is that there is such night and day between a GTI stock and a GTI with the Stage I flash, that any dealer would realise it had been done simply by turning the car on to move it from the car park to the service bay! They are THAT impressive :)

[HereGoes]

They are THAT impressive :)

I Get the impressiveness and the sheer difference between the two, and i have done all the homework short of the actual test drive. (If anyone want to offer one i will take it =P)

But for me it come down to do i want to spend 2k on extra power that i really do not need (but want) and knowing me will cost me even more points or would i rather pay for a flight to some adventure in a far of country? Simple economics really, allocation of resources.

[elisiX]

If you're saying spend $2k on APR or $2k on a holiday. I say take the holiday.

Doesn't for a second take away from what coreying has stated about these performance tuners.

[Corey_R]

I Get the impressiveness and the sheer difference between the two, and i have done all the homework short of the actual test drive. (If anyone want to offer one i will take it =P)

But for me it come down to do i want to spend 2k on extra power that i really do not need (but want) and knowing me will cost me even more points or would i rather pay for a flight to some adventure in a far of country? Simple economics really, allocation of resources.

Having said that, you're spending $40k+ on a car which many would argue already gives you more power than you need! You could've saved $20k and bought a Hyundai ;)
An additional $2k is nothing when looked at the overall purchase of the car - it's probably only 3.6% to 5% of the cost of the car (depending on the options you got). Compare this to the fact that it increases power by 22% and torque by 44% - it's awesome value!

BUT... although I doubt the quality of a holiday which only costs $2k, I'd be tempted to take elisiX's advice if that $2k meant the difference between being able to take a holiday or not... ;)

[Guy_H]

It's only $1700 for 2 programs, not 2k for a single program!

Some of the others on the market have a lower price for a single program, but that doesn't help you if you need to go back to stock for any purpose (included in our product).

If you have a dealer reflash, your APR is re-installed (no cost from APR) - has been the same way for many years now.

Anyway HereGoes, since you are in Toowong, pop over & visit us & have a chat! We can show you all the ins & outs of the MKVI!

Logger is correct on the DSG torque monitoring, but there are several factors that also influence what information gets sent to the DSG box as well. The "overtorque" situation is something that is controlled by the fuzzy logic part of the DSG controller (or the adaptable part), if the transmission is "expecting" a certain torque, it's not a problem.

[HereGoes]

Having said that, you're spending $40k+ on a car which many would argue already gives you more power than you need! You could've saved $20k and bought a Hyundai ;)
An additional $2k is nothing when looked at the overall purchase of the car - it's probably only 3.6% to 5% of the cost of the car (depending on the options you got). Compare this to the fact that it increases power by 22% and torque by 44% - it's awesome value!

BUT... although I doubt the quality of a holiday which only costs $2k, I'd be tempted to take elisiX's advice if that $2k meant the difference between being able to take a holiday or not... ;)

I agree, it is a small amount to pay considering the power and the value of the car, but am i really going to get to use it to its full potential to justify paying that much for it... We will see... and if/when i do APR is at the top of the list.

And the holiday is definitely happening regardless, 5 week in South America (If it has not be natural disastrous away to nothing!) in august, $2k got me the flights :banana:

[HereGoes]

Anyway HereGoes, since you are in Toowong, pop over & visit us & have a chat! We can show you all the ins & outs of the MKVI!

Thanks mate i will, just not too soon though because i know as soon as i actually drive with it i am going to want it!

[Corey_R]

I agree, it is a small amount to pay considering the power and the value of the car, but am i really going to get to use it to its full potential to justify paying that much for it...

I think you will. It's not a situation where the additional 34 kw is only available beyond the revs of the stock 155kw etc - the additional power and torque is there ALL through the rev range. So it's always there. So you can use it all the time.... driving along in 6th gear at 60kph and need accelerate up to 80kph to overtake another car but can't be bothered changing gears - it's just so much easier with the ECU as you've got 44% more torque. I think it's really the torque which makes all the difference.

Anyway - as Guy has offered, go up and check it out when you're back from holidays. As you're last post says, I'm pretty sure the only regret you'll have when you finally take the jump, is that it took you so long to take the jump :)

[AdamD]

As far as I can see the DSG controller does not log torque...

Slightly OT: does anyone know whether the use of launch control is logged at all?

I'm not about to use it when I get my GTI (I'm a mechanical sympathist and suspect it puts too much load on the clutch pack, gearbox, driveline etc), but I am interested nonetheless.

[Corey_R]

I think that for anyone looking into a flash ECU upgrade, unless you ONLY drive in metro locations, it is a MUST to get an ECU upgrade which allows switching back to stock.

The Polo GTI and Golf GTI (MK6) allows the car to be run on 95 octane. Even the MK5 GTI you could get away with 95 octane if you really had to.

Why would you want to run 95 octane? Well, you wouldn't. But if, like me, you sometimes drive from one state to another, or have to visit a country town, sometimes you simply cannot get 98 octane fuel. If you have an ECU tune which doesn't allow switching, well ping baby ping.

So far I'd only seen people mention that the ability to switch back to stock is useful for servicing of the car. But I've unfortunately been in the situation where I've had to use it due to the available fuel - yet I've not seen anyone else mention that yet, so I thought I should let ya'all know :)

[Tim]

Most tuning companies offer tunes that are compatible with 95. That really shouldnt be a problem unless the tune is super aggressive or the fuel is of very poor quality.

[h100vw]

I have run 95 in my S3 and the Custom-Code is written for 98. It doesn't go half as well but there's no damage done. I drove for 4-500ks on that tank.

If you have to use some 95 because there's no 98 available, don't fill the tank right up unless you know there's no 98 on the horizon. It will take longer to get back to undiluted 98.

Something would have to be pretty bad for you to hear pinking.

Gavin

[Corey_R]

If the tune is optimised for 98 octane though - wouldn't it have difficulties on running on 95?

Unless they're optimised for running on 95 which means you're giving up some of the potential power if you're using 98.

I know that APR has tunes which are optimised for 91/95/98 and 104 - and you can then switch between them, within a minute using the cruise control selector.

[Swallowtail]

If the tune is optimised for 98 octane though - wouldn't it have difficulties on running on 95?

It should just retard the timing to suit as if it was a bad batch of fuel - the engine will do this automatically without any tune, so I can't see how a tune would make any difference to that functionality?

[Corey_R]

I'm not sure - cause I'm not a mechanic and I make no claims to understand what the ECU is doing or is capable of.

In my Polo GTI (which we all know has a 15 year old Audi 1.8T motor), when I had to put 95 in that, it was not happy. It'd even sound as though it was going to stall at idle when initially turned on. Changing back to stock was ok.

My friend has a Nissan Skyline R33 Series II GTS-T (whatever they called the turbo non-awd model). He's had a fair amount of upgrades and the engine has been custom mapped whilst on 98 octane fuel. He had to put a few litres of 95 in there due to the local stations being out of 98 a few months ago - the engine was pinging like crazy any time he put even a moderate amount of power down.

So yeah - I don't claim to know the whys or hows - I'm just sharing my observations of these cases.

[noone]

ECU is able to retard timing / other settings to deal with 95 petrol. Can't speak for the Skyline, other than to say its a completely different car, manufacturer and design.

Personally, if you get 95 and have the APR, switch the map back to stock until you can get 98 in it again.

[Corey_R]

Personally, if you get 95 and have the APR, switch the map back to stock until you can get 98 in it again.

And really, that's all I was trying to say. If you have an ECU flash which is optimised for the highest quality fuel we have (98) and you're unable to use it, at least APR offers the ability to change back to stock. Not all ECU suppliers offer this feature.

[sandandsalt]

All tunes have same outcome with different needs more Nm or HP and where in the range over the RPM. Revo/ APR. etc etc.Same with different peak output thank you for the choice as the this market is huge.

[Timbo]

And really, that's all I was trying to say. If you have an ECU flash which is optimised for the highest quality fuel we have (98) and you're unable to use it, at least APR offers the ability to change back to stock. Not all ECU suppliers offer this feature.

Actually, most do. I had a REVO on my previous Polo GTI, with a select switch, which gave me 91, 95, 98 and 104 plus valet and anti-theft.

Currently I have GIAC with Flashloader, which gives stock plus a 98 optimised program.

I also trialled the Bluefin, which also allows switching between the stock program and enhanced tune.

I don't know about Custom-Code or Unitronic -- someone care to comment?

I would simply add that if you are looking at ECU tunes, there's quite a variety available in Australia, and the three above, including switches, are very price competitive although the dealer support will vary with location -- APR certainly has the edge there.

[AdamD]

I would assume that a good tune is capable of retarding the ignition (to a point) when it detects knock, irrespective of what RON rating it's been optimised for. After all, that's exactly what the stock ECU map manages. I suppose the question is how well an aftermarket tune has been programmed to detect and deal with knock, and this may well vary from tune to tune. And maybe tuners like APR give you the ability to preselect a tune that's optimised for a certain fuel because they (and you) would rather it not get to the point where the car needs to detect knock before it switches to an alternate map.

We know the stock setup is good for 95 RON because VW have advertised the car can handle it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the tune can detect higher RON fuel and advance the timing to give you better power and economy in such cases. In other words - it may well not run the same timing for 95 and 98 RON.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here... Guy, feel free to pipe up? ;)

[Guy_H]

Me ? :)

the timing table (or spark) does get modified & has a certain upper & lower limits, but it can only go so far.

Example:

Stock spark map might have a zero point for 94 ron and will adapt up or down maybe 12 degrees of pull or advance (there is more to it than just fuel itself).

If you change the zero point up (in this case make the central point for 98 ron) then you will still have maybe 12 degrees of adjustment either way.

There are limits to these tables, and also the sensor inputs that control them as well. - this is a very rough, basic explanation, there are many intertwined factors & other engine control tables that intertwine with the spark tables. Some ECU's will have 8 to 12 individual spark tables internally as well.

[Guy_H]

P.S. Generally you will get away with 95 ron on a 98 map. But a really hot day, you could get into trouble, so most of the posters are correct - run 98 ron with a 98 ron map. Run 95 ron with a 95 ron map or stock ECU program!

[Corey_R]

Thanks for the information Guy_H. It's always great to get it directly from the source :)

[QuickA4]

Giac have released their Mk6 Australian software.
Most of them are in car flash.
A lot of US delivered cars are bench flash.

So if your in sydney, call arthur at exoticars.

[PeDiES]

haha i know youre takin the piss but GIAC hasnt even released their MK6 GTI upgrade yet. As usual they arent first to the market but as you say im sure they will be the best :P

it came out yesterday, the initial read off the ecu to get the stock file needs to be done out of the car but the flash can be done through the obd port, im yet to 100% confirm but thats what ive been told

[Tim]

yep Lucas has just confirmed with me today that Exoticars have a mk6 in this weekend that theyre flashing.

Pricing starts from $1095 I believe. Same as the other 2.0 TSI cars

[PeDiES]

yep Lucas has just confirmed with me today that Exoticars have a mk6 in this weekend that theyre flashing.

Pricing starts from $1095 I believe. Same as the other 2.0 TSI cars

yep $1095 and the official sheet for the file has power gain down as "a lot" lol. :P

[iBoost]

Great, I'm interested to see what "a lot" equates to! :D