Heavy handed ?

[gregozedobe]

You broke the rules, you got an infraction. Next time, do things properly and you won't get another. If you want to keep publicly questioning the admin team's decisions (even in this thread), I'll happily give you yet another too.

I often disagree with Maverick (particularly when he is being excessively "undiplomatic"), but in this instance I feel I must support him.

It seems to me like some mods want to feel "above" the general members. I still don't see why we members shouldn't be able to question a Mod's decision publicly - after all Mods can (and do) edit/delete/move our contributions quite unilaterally.

To me VWW is sometimes a bit too much like a dicatorship where any criticism (whether accurate or not, justified or not) is instantly punished without even the pretence of a fair trial, or perhaps like the Pope - he can declare one of his own decisions as "infallible", when we all are human and are quite capable of making mistakes.

In the instance I quoted above, I see obvious threatening behaviour from a mod towards a member (of course mods may interpret that statement differently, as is their right).

Yes, I am quite willing to take my 3 point infraction for "publicly questioning the admin team's decision", as I think this is an issue that seems to need attention every now and then. Things had been going along smoothly for quite a while there, but this censorship issue does keep cropping up in this forum, I wonder why ? :rolleyes:

[/rant]

[jayjay]

I can completely understand where your concern stems from. And whilst every member has a right to voice an opinion, there has to be a certain level of control ( read: moderation ) of things we deem inappropriate.

Amongst the manual sifting of the porn and spam that get through the filter, the deletion or editing of material that can be often blatantly offensive, along with the infraction system is sometimes done with a bit of frustration.

I also agree with the "we are all human" idea. So I think the message I'm trying to get across is, whilst you may often think we/i/mods moderate with a heavy hand, there are instances where frustration may get the better of us.

I'd probably vent that i feel vilified sometimes. I personally am not out to "get" anyone. I don't think that is the purpose of having moderators. More so that, as a public forum that is designed for the sharing of information, members should perhaps show some restraint in the threads that get massively heated and not simply slander one another.

[Maverick]

I can completely understand where your concern stems from. And whilst every member has a right to voice an opinion, there has to be a certain level of control ( read: moderation ) of things we deem inappropriate.

I agree but sometimes mods cross the line and don't come back (not you).


I also agree with the "we are all human" idea. So I think the message I'm trying to get across is, whilst you may often think we/i/mods moderate with a heavy hand, there are instances where frustration may get the better of us.

And without wanting to pick up any more infractions (after receiving three infractions times three points this morning for one post) there are those moderators that do have it in for some members of the forum and that moderator will know exactly who I mean. When you have a moderator willing to set people up so they can ban them they're clearly going too far and you would have to question their ability to be a moderator.


It seems to me like some mods want to feel "above" the general members. I still don't see why we members shouldn't be able to question a Mod's decision publicly - after all Mods can (and do) edit/delete/move our contributions quite unilaterally.

And without commenting specifically thanks to this PM from a "moderator"


Mav, you really don't seem to get the picture here you simply cannot openly critiscise admin's in the public forum. And in every instance like this one, you will be infracted without hesitation.

My issue was around the area that the thread had been renamed to include a personal attack on myself yet had been left there for public viewing which was a clear breach of the forum rules and downright rude.

[brad]

I mod at another forum & we don't allow public "discussion" of mods & request that they bring their issues to PM because public airing just brings out the stirrers.

Then again, all our mods are way over 30, so if we get tired of the grief we just take an interweb holiday ourselves & do something else.

Plus our forum self-moderates very well as it's smaller & we all know each other outside the interweb.

I think some of the mods on VWwc forget that they are also role models to other members.

3 infractions for a single post? Mod co-ordination & communication fail.

[GoLfMan]

this has been raised multiple times over the years, always the same issue.

I really don't moderate that much any more, only to rid us of spammers and when someone REALLY go's too far.

It's a thankless job at which we try and be fair to everyone. We're just trying to keep this VW forum a pleasant place to be, which believe me is VERY difficult.

Mod's usually discuss issues before handing out infractions and the like. We TRY and be fair.

Want to change it??? Why not step up and become Moderators yourselves!!!

[DUB 20V]

this has been raised multiple times over the years, always the same issue.

I really don't moderate that much any more, only to rid us of spammers and when someone REALLY go's too far.

It's a thankless job at which we try and be fair to everyone. We're just trying to keep this VW forum a pleasant place to be, which believe me is VERY difficult.

Mod's usually discuss issues before handing out infractions and the like. We TRY and be fair.

Want to change it??? Why not step up and become Moderators yourselves!!!

hahaha you mod the **** out of me, ill be a mod??? hit me up, the fourm has more mods then members or so it seems,

[brad]

Dub20v
That possibly isn't the type of constructive criticism this thread requires.

[WABIT]

i dont know why a thread like this is even created, try PM the mods or the admin? you bring the point accross more direct rather than putting it in here..... i know it means well and hopefully have some progression, but it WILL create more problems

[Treza360]

What we should all want out of this forum is a friendly and happy community where members give each other positive and/or constructive advice, comments and conversations with patience and tolerance.

Just because someone may have more or less knowledge or has a different opinion to you doesn't mean that you should talk down to them, belittle them or generally constantly argue and engage in tit for tat and condescending comments.

None of this behaviour is helps to create the state and goals outlined in my first paragraph.

In regards to openly questioning a moderator's decision, I think it is good form and polite to discuss any issue you have with any person via personal PM. Having a "go" at anyone in public for their decision only ever leads to the problems I've outlined above. If you are not happy with a response then take it up the ladder.

Some points to remember that I think are not realised:

Moderators are only responsible for specific sections of the forum. They cannot edit, close, move rename threads (etc) in sections they are not responsible for.
Super Moderators can moderate any section of the forum. If you are not happy with the result of a discussion with a moderator take it up with a Super Mod.
The Site Administrators have vast amounts of traffic and information for them. This includes huge amounts of PMs, Emails, Spammers and the general running of the site. Escalate problems through section moderators to super mods and lastly administrators. Responses will generally be quicker this way rather than waiting for an admin to go through their inbox (see further points below).
Admin, Super Moderators and Moderators are normal members as well. They are here due to their interest in VWs. Not just to be a moderator.
Admin, Super Moderators and Moderators have and are entitled to their own opinions as well.
Admin, Super Moderators and Moderators all work normal jobs as well.
Admin, Super Moderators and Moderators can not be all over the forum at all times. The Report Post function should be used.
Admin, Super Moderators and Moderators are not necessarily able to mod at all times. We may just be glancing at the forum on a quick break or to check on a specific thread or item for sale etc.
Just because it says you are online at the bottom of the page doesn't mean you are there. I leave my web browser open and logged in at home all the time.
Everyone is responsible for making this forum how we want it.
Everyone should be setting an example for other users.


Lastly taken directly from the rules:

We are a community and communities should look after each other's welfare. Rules are made to protect the sensible majority from the irresponsible minority. As owners of fine European cars, we have already shown that we are sensible. As members of this forum we have also demonstrated that we want to communicate with others who have similar interests so let's keep our communication socially responsible.

I don't think this thread requires anymore discussion. Everyone should have a long hard think about the points above.

Cheers,
Trent