GTi Question

[GTi3dr]

I'm in the market for my first hot hatch. The Golf GTi is a joint front runner after driving a few, the other is a 3 MPS.

I just have a few questions I need some answers for before I make a decision.

I've been reading reviews on the MK6 GTi and the ESP isnt switchable, which is a problem for me as I will be using it for hill climbs, track days, motorkhana's and anything else that takes my fancy. Is there an aftermarket flash that lets it be turned off when the button is pushed?

And my final question is, is there an actual Flash box that you can carry with you to upload tunes on the run or when the car goes back to VW it can be flashed back to stock? All I seem to read about is software updates and I dont like the idea of losing the tune if VW has an 'update' one service and paying out $1500 again.

Cheers Mat

[triode12]

I'm in the market for my first hot hatch. The Golf GTi is a joint front runner after driving a few, the other is a 3 MPS.

I just have a few questions I need some answers for before I make a decision.

I've been reading reviews on the MK6 GTi and the ESP isnt switchable, which is a problem for me as I will be using it for hill climbs, track days, motorkhana's and anything else that takes my fancy. Is there an aftermarket flash that lets it be turned off when the button is pushed?

And my final question is, is there an actual Flash box that you can carry with you to upload tunes on the run or when the car goes back to VW it can be flashed back to stock? All I seem to read about is software updates and I dont like the idea of losing the tune if VW has an 'update' one service and paying out $1500 again.

Cheers Mat

You want a MkV not a MkVI. Cheaper and you don't have to fuss about with getting a flash to disengage ESP.

[GTi3dr]

You want a MkV not a MkVI. Cheaper and you don't have to fuss about with getting a flash to disengage ESP.

That doesnt really help me now does it, I'm buying new hence the questions

[iBoost]

Hi Mat,

The ESP can be switched off, although from reviews I have read "off" is not off completely. It still will cut in, all be it once you're way out of control. As I understand it, it lets you have more than a bit of fun before it comes to the party. Not sure if this would affect track usage, maybe others can comment further.

As far as tunes go, most can be switch between stock and the upgraded tune quite easily. If VW were to reflash your car with an update, you simply go back to the shop who did the flash tune and they will reflash it free of charge. I've not heard of anyone being charged to have their tune redone before.

Hope this helps. Having owned the previous 3 MPS, it is a monster of a car, great acceleration as well, and with the new model also comes with a few more goodies thrown in such as sat nav etc. I do think that the GTI is a cut above it overall though and is only a flash tune away from MPS eating power. Best of both worlds in my opinion.

[GTi3dr]

Hi Mat,

The ESP can be switched off, although from reviews I have read "off" is not off completely. It still will cut in, all be it once you're way out of control. As I understand it, it lets you have more than a bit of fun before it comes to the party. Not sure if this would affect track usage, maybe others can comment further.

As far as tunes go, most can be switch between stock and the upgraded tune quite easily. If VW were to reflash your car with an update, you simply go back to the shop who did the flash tune and they will reflash it free of charge. I've not heard of anyone being charged to have their tune redone before.

Hope this helps. Having owned the previous 3 MPS, it is a monster of a car, great acceleration as well, and with the new model also comes with a few more goodies thrown in such as sat nav etc. I do think that the GTI is a cut above it overall though and is only a flash tune away from MPS eating power. Best of both worlds in my opinion.

Ah interesting with the tune, thanks, so there are no box's that you can carry with you?

With the ESP, the reason I'm concerned is mostly is the fact of the handbrake use around a wet skidpan and ESP going crazy trying to correct it for me.

[trueman]

Wow expensive car to thrash like that.
Perhaps a jap car would be better.:eek:

[dave_r]

Wow expensive car to thrash like that.
Perhaps a jap car would be better.:eek:

LOL you're not serious are you? What better way to make good use of the purchase!!

May as well get a barina with free sunroof and drive from a-b!

[Rocket36]

Wow expensive car to thrash like that.
Perhaps a jap car would be better.:eek:

Drive them to the limits. What's the point in owning something and not using it to its full potential? Especially when the full potential of the higher performance models costs a lot more. I'd hardly call driving a car within the limits of its capability "thrashing". I had mine at a track day for its run-in, two days after I bought it!

[triode12]

That doesnt really help me now does it, I'm buying new hence the questions

There are still new MkV GTIs or demos to be had.

[niulf]

Bluefin handset device from Superchips allows you remap your ECU by yourself.

[noone]

ESP can not be fully switched off, I don't think VW want you to be able to fully disengage stability programs. On the Polo with ESP switched off, you can happily spin the wheels, ABS and other items stay on.

You MAY be able to pull a fuse to disengage these systems (but may just cause car to run slower as it detects a fault).

MPS has rev limiter in 1st and 2nd from memory, so you are likely to have similar issues / limitations with the Mazda's as well.

APR program is switchable (have a look at GOAPR.com.au). I believe APR (and likely other vendors) will reload software if it happens to be wiped (just ask).

Personally, for a track car I think the Golf is pretty heavy (1343kgs?) You MAY be interested in the new Polo GTI which will supposedly have the 1.4 TFSI engine, will not be far off a Tone curb weight. No dates on the Polo, GTI may not even be this year...

[Lima]

First things first ... GTI

...not GTi.

Secondly, I reckon in a skid pan environment you'll still be able to have enough fun with the ESP "off". I don't think it stays on that much so as to thwart super extreme conditions.


...MPS has rev limiter in 1st and 2nd from memory, so you are likely to have similar issues / limitations with the Mazda's as well...

Yeah, the S3 is similar to this, although I haven't found any literature to confirm this. But if you have the car in neutral and put your foot flat on the gas pedal the car won't rev past 4000rpm. While there is a two stage switching process to turn off ASR (traction control), then ESP, when I had the S3 on the skidpan I was unable to properly spin the wheels from a standing start.

However, power sliding out of corners was still possible (http://www.liam27.com/audi/S3-skidpan-02.gif) (after using handbrake to induce the slide)!

[GTi3dr]

ESP can not be fully switched off, I don't think VW want you to be able to fully disengage stability programs. On the Polo with ESP switched off, you can happily spin the wheels, ABS and other items stay on.

You MAY be able to pull a fuse to disengage these systems (but may just cause car to run slower as it detects a fault).

MPS has rev limiter in 1st and 2nd from memory, so you are likely to have similar issues / limitations with the Mazda's as well.

APR program is switchable (have a look at GOAPR.com.au). I believe APR (and likely other vendors) will reload software if it happens to be wiped (just ask).

Personally, for a track car I think the Golf is pretty heavy (1343kgs?) You MAY be interested in the new Polo GTI which will supposedly have the 1.4 TFSI engine, will not be far off a Tone curb weight. No dates on the Polo, GTI may not even be this year...

They both will be reflashed anyway. So nobody has heard anything about the ESP being turned off via tuning?

[Corey_R]

First things first ... GTI

...not GTi.

Thanks for saying that, I was starting to think that GTi3dr thought he looking at a Peugot or Suzuki :)


So nobody has heard anything about the ESP being turned off via tuning?

An APR representative has stated somewhere (sorry, I can't find the post right now) that they can completely disable the ESP on a car designated for track use. You may wish to give Guy @ Harding Performance in QLD a call and ask him the question. Please note that I'm not sure on the legal situations around this and whether they're allowed to do it for a car which will also be road registered etc, so please talk to them directly.


so there are no box's that you can carry with you?

As niulf said on the previous page, Bluefin have one which is available. A friend of mine has one for his GTI Pirelli. I'm not really sure of the benefit of one, it's rather rare for VW to reflash your ECU....

[philthy]

Revo Technick, GIAC and ChippedUK all do hand held boxes as well.

[KWICKS]

Yeah, the S3 is similar to this, although I haven't found any literature to confirm this. But if you have the car in neutral and put your foot flat on the gas pedal the car won't rev past 4000rpm. While there is a two stage switching process to turn off ASR (traction control), then ESP, when I had the S3 on the skidpan I was unable to properly spin the wheels from a standing start.My Liberty 3.0R-B does this, albeit with a 5000RPM limit in 1st, clutch in. It's drivetrain protection against full bore dumps.

[pologti18t]

For a track car maybe one of these is better... pity no new ones still around

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=8233366&keywords=r26&tsrc=allcarhome&__Ntk=CarAll&__Nne=15&__Dx=mode%20matchany&__D=r26&silo=1011&seot=1&__sid=11C52270E001&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294963762% 204294963380&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_PriceSort_D ecimal%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Make_String%7c0%7c%7cpCar_Mod el_String%7c0&__Qpb=true&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Cr=5&__Ntt=r26&trecs=7

[AdamD]

Motor magazine has done a few write-ups on the MkVI GTI, and are pretty critical of the fact the ESP can't be fully disabled. They claim it slows the car substantially in terms of track lap times when in the hands of a pro, and from the way they describe it, I would not automatically conclude that the ESP OFF button raises the ESP threshold much, if at all. I recall reading that all the ESP OFF button does is disable the traction control (happy to be corrected if this isn't the case, but it'd be good to get a definitive answer either way).

If motorkhana is your thing, and you're not 100% clear on what the available mods can do for you, I'd hold off on a purchase till you can verify the car's behaviour meets your needs (or otherwise).

[trueman]

LOL you're not serious are you? What better way to make good use of the purchase!!

May as well get a barina with free sunroof and drive from a-b!
you'd look good in a barina dave:cool:

[trueman]

Drive them to the limits. What's the point in owning something and not using it to its full potential? Especially when the full potential of the higher performance models costs a lot more. I'd hardly call driving a car within the limits of its capability "thrashing". I had mine at a track day for its run-in, two days after I bought it!
Lets get a survey going. Not everyone who buys a "sportscar" is a boyracer!
I am sure if diehards like yourself were the only purchasers the GTI wouldn't exist ie limited market.:brutal:

[Rocket36]

I'm sorry. Where did I claim to be a "boyracer"? I don't even know what one is. I enjoy the full potential of my car in safe, controlled environments such as closed tracks at driver training facilities. Just as I do on my B-King. I only race in race cars.

All I said is what's the point of spending such a large amount of money on something and then not fully utilising it? It'd be like buying a brand new high spec computer to play minesweeper... Let's get a survey going and see how many people think that'd be a good idea. :D I apologise if you mis-understood the point I was trying to make. I should have been clearer to start with.

[GTi3dr]

Thanks for the info guys, I've got all the info I need :toast: