Anyone Running APR Stage 3+?

[ScottishPoloGTI]

Just wondering if anyone is running this on their Polo. Doesnt seem to be anyone here in the Uk got this kit on there Polo yet. Just looking for some info about it. Like if they are running standard internals? Awesome GTI (Uk main APR suppliers) say that this kit will be fine on standard internals. Its the 340bhp kit.

Regards Kenny :rolleyes:

[noone]

Good to see you again mate.

Noting I know of, few Ko4-001's, a Ko4-025, lots of chipped Ko3's.

Have a look at the K04 thread close to this one, there is an interesting hybrid I found in there.

Not sure Stage 3 would be cost effective compared to sourcing parts and going to a different tune.

Not sure why there is no fuel pump, injectors, etc listed as required in stage 2 or 3 compared to some of the other tunes...?

Also, if it has not been done for a customer, APR may not have all the parts prepared for this project.

[break]

Standard internals are good for up to 300kw from all reports... which is far more than you'll get with the stage III+

Edit: That said, I think you could end up with more peak power, less lag, and more ability to further upgrade later by going to a good tuner and doing a custom build with an aftermarket ECU. Stage III+ ain't exactly cheap, and the cost of manifold fabrication, doing a fuel system upgrade, cost of a new turbo, cost of ECU, then cost of fitting and tuning would likely be similar in the long run.

[firdausasri]

For stage 3, you need bigger turbo, genesis 380cc injectors, 4 bar fuel pressure regulator, walbro 255lbs alike fuel pump, upgraded fuel rail (if you gone 440ccc injectors onwards), fmic, cams etc but then you'll have lots of headache with the traction. Although stock internal good enough for 300bhp onwards but you've to watch out for the conrod which is the weakest link for the engine.

[noone]

For stage 3, you need bigger turbo, genesis 380cc injectors, 4 bar fuel pressure regulator, walbro 255lbs alike fuel pump, upgraded fuel rail (if you gone 440ccc injectors onwards), fmic, cams etc but then you'll have lots of headache with the traction. Although stock internal good enough for 300bhp onwards but you've to watch out for the conrod which is the weakest link for the engine.

From what I can see on the APR sites, no mention of injectors, no mention of fuel pump, no mention of cams.

Don't think anyone scopes cams as essential.

------

Was talking to a major dealer about the std K04-001 upgrade with code just yesterday.
They suggested the Gearbox was likely to be ongoing issue. Can be rebuilt, but no aftermarket options if ongoing brakage occurs.
They also suggested issues with the clutch, but the clutch can be upgraded to 3rd party aftermarket device.

I'm sure there are cards with K04 and no gearbox issues, guess it depends on how you treat your car.

[whiteVR6]

If your going to run a gt28rs your going to need the following :

440-630 injectors
front mount
Stage 1 clutch min
lsd
spark plugs
tune

The gearbox will handle a mild upgrade like a gt28rs but you'd require an lsd as minimum . The diffs are weak and will break .

Who fitted a ko4-025 ? They are one side of an RS4 twin turbo ? Are you sure its not a ko4-022 or -022 ?

The rods are weak with torque spike which the ko4 is strong enough to break a rod and they dont need to be upgraded until you push the car hard . Piston rings are what will wear out quicker . 300kw , 300 hp , it all doesnt matter your gonna have to eventually rebuild the engine anyway , the numbers just dont equate to anything unless you use them

[noone]

Who fitted a ko4-025 ? They are one side of an RS4 twin turbo? Are you sure its not a ko4-022 or -022 ?

I'm pretty sure, his thread is here (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=31682)




If your going to run a gt28rs your going to need the following:

440-630 injectors
front mount
Stage 1 clutch min
lsd
spark plugs
tune

The gearbox will handle a mild upgrade like a gt28rs but you'd require an lsd as minimum . The diffs are weak and will break.


I think there is a lot of difference between what is required and what makes sense. Is the gt28rs specified as the turbo for any of the Stage 3's?

I don't think the APR needs FMIC, injectors, fuel pump, I can't see where they have stipulated its required.

Those injectors are much bigger than I've seen specified elsewhere.
LSD, makes sense, but is it required? Is the stock diff very weak? Do you have experience with the Polo diff or is it the same as mk4 or another vehicle?
Spark plugs, is there an issue with the stock ones with the additional power, fuel, etc? I know some people have upgraded, but seems to be for their own peace of mind, rather than requirement.

All good info, I'm thinking about going down this path, but with all the extra's needed, think the Polo might not be a great platform.

[break]

All good info, I'm thinking about going down this path, but with all the extra's needed, think the Polo might not be a great platform.That right there summed up exactly why my Polo is only ever going to have its tune, plus the odd thing here or there as it needs replacing.

If you wanted a powerful turbo sports car than can handle, the better value for money is save the cash you would otherwise spend on mods on the Polo and just buy that EVO/STI etc. that you'd really like. You'll end up with a better sports car, that has most of the things you want (more power, better brakes, better handling etc.) from the factory... and you'll have a much better platform to start your modifications.

[noone]

That right there summed up exactly why my Polo is only ever going to have its tune, plus the odd thing here or there as it needs replacing.

the best money i spent on my car:
- chip
- Seat intake
- swaybars
- coilovers
- bushes

The other items help (i like my exhaust sound with the dump pipe and front mount), I doubt I'm done yet, but it makes me smile inside when people talk about traction issues with the K03, front swaybar and coilovers made a huge traction improvement.

[ScottishPoloGTI]

This is the kit am looking at:
http://www.goapreu.com/products/stage3plus_trans.htm

This includes everything i need including software. Works out just over £4K time you add on VAT!

I dont really want to go and buy parts seperate and do a custom build. APR are in my opinion the best tuners out there. Lots of research has went into this kit and mapping it to suit. They say it is fine on standard internals, but am just wondering what everyone else thinks?

Kenny

[VWindahouse]

I looked into this with the Australian distributer and he recommended forged rods for APR Stage III and forged rods and pistons for Stage III+.

[VWindahouse]

Sorry Kenny I just noticed your list of mods in your signature. Have you considered the Custom Code/JBS phase III upgrade? 300whp and you already have the FMIC and TB exhaust and CC Phase II. Maybe they could cut you a deal with Custom Codes progressive tuning discounts?? And from what I have read in all my reseach (results soon to be posted here http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=33911) you won't need to upgrade the internals.

Anyway best of luck whatever you decide :google:

[firdausasri]

From what I can see on the APR sites, no mention of injectors, no mention of fuel pump, no mention of cams.

Don't think anyone scopes cams as essential.

------

Was talking to a major dealer about the std K04-001 upgrade with code just yesterday.
They suggested the Gearbox was likely to be ongoing issue. Can be rebuilt, but no aftermarket options if ongoing brakage occurs.
They also suggested issues with the clutch, but the clutch can be upgraded to 3rd party aftermarket device.

I'm sure there are cards with K04 and no gearbox issues, guess it depends on how you treat your car.

Yeah the cams may not be necessary but it will compliment stg3 mods. Even if you're going to stage 2, some tuning companies like Unitronic insist you upgrade the injectors to 380cc, a range colder plug like NGK BKR7E or Denso IK27 (2 range colder I think), 3.5 bar fuel pressure regulator.

In my opinion, the max usable power for Polo should be 200-230hp on wheels but responsive power delivery which what I'm aiming for :)
Besides stg1 chipped Polo can give plenty of sport cars out there a run of their money :)

[Jmac]

There is a LittleRedDevil on here soon to be :rolleyes: the clue is there:rolleyes:
Bet your glad that snaws awa mate.
Jmac

[ScottishPoloGTI]

Sorry Kenny I just noticed your list of mods in your signature. Have you considered the Custom Code/JBS phase III upgrade? 300whp and you already have the FMIC and TB exhaust and CC Phase II. Maybe they could cut you a deal with Custom Codes progressive tuning discounts?? And from what I have read in all my reseach (results soon to be posted here http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=33911) you won't need to upgrade the internals.

Anyway best of luck whatever you decide :google:


Are you talking about the K03 Hybrid? There has been a few people over here done this set up on there Seats and getting mixed results. Some are great (280bhp at the fly) and some not so good. Oil leaks, boost leaks, turbos going etc, guy through a rod aswell! :( The Hybrids set up has an awful lot of low down torque and thats what is bending and snapping the rods, where as the GT2860RS set up is much more top end and smoother curve (depending on what map). Decisions decisions i guess!? I know what you mean about tractions but if you think 340 BHP is a lot what about a guy that has just fitted a GT30 to his Polo, made 483BHP 386lb/ft at the fly!!!! :eek: 360KW i think???


Yeah Jmac! lol starting again lastnight but never came to anything. Polo is loving the cold weather tho! :banana:

[mikepologti]

correct me if im wrong but i thaught the pog had trouble squeezing in the stage 3 apr set up? how are these guys in the uk , fitting them in?

[ScottishPoloGTI]

Dont think there has been one fitting to a Polo in th UK mate. There has been a couple of Seat Ibiza Mk4's that have had the IHI turbo kit fitted.

[Plautos]

correct me if im wrong but i thaught the pog had trouble squeezing in the stage 3 apr set up? how are these guys in the uk , fitting them in?

I didn't buy the APR set up, because I thought it won't fit...

Now, after my nightmare I'm pretty sure the APR exhaust manifold will fit.

The problem is in the pressurization tubes, intake, downpipe... all made to fit the Golf... I'm not sure if it will be plug'n'play in the Polo.

The APR kit is very complete, there is a video on YouTube explaining most of the kit components.

The only negative point that I saw is the software. In my case, I had to open the ECU and change the chip. It won’t accept direct port programming. You can see a parallel port over it.

Ohh.. Guess what! It didn’t work. I had to ship it to US to be checked… It will be back here in the next week.

My car is running with the APR k04 software.


http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/6886/img0831.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/img0831.jpg/)

[Jmac]

Parallel port allows you to tune with a BDM set up, vehicles from 2010 are going back to BDM set up, which is open ecu again like you have, will be around 12mnths before its back to serial flash, however im surprised that you cant on yours mate, whats the story there???
Cheers
Jmac

[h100vw]

Encryption board or something soldered on there Jimmy. Had this on The Krauts Passat. Had to fit another board with the software loaded on it.

Gavin

[Plautos]

Encryption board or something soldered on there Jimmy. Had this on The Krauts Passat. Had to fit another board with the software loaded on it.

Gavin

The dealer told me that the Stage3 software is older, more complex, this chip have space for only one programming and can’t be access through the cruise control.

I’m surprised it didn’t work. I think it is a hardware problem.

[Jmac]

Encryption board or something soldered on there Jimmy. Had this on The Krauts Passat. Had to fit another board with the software loaded on it.

Gavin

i can sort of see that on a Passat but not a Polo im sure you agree. Wonder how many are like that. Lots of the new stuff like i say has went backwards a little from serial to BDM again. where the Eeprom is there should be a row of parallel pins( female, this is wher the BDM spikes go to do the Zapping. Im very surprised at a POlo ecu having that drama.
Interesting
Jmac

[Guy_H]

Just wondering if anyone is running this on their Polo. Doesnt seem to be anyone here in the Uk got this kit on there Polo yet. Just looking for some info about it. Like if they are running standard internals? Awesome GTI (Uk main APR suppliers) say that this kit will be fine on standard internals. Its the 340bhp kit.

Regards Kenny :rolleyes:

Correct, for street use, stock internals will handle stage 3+ if you are racing or going beyond these parameters (like race gas) then upgraded internals (minimum rods) would be good insurance.


Good to see you again mate.

Noting I know of, few Ko4-001's, a Ko4-025, lots of chipped Ko3's.

Have a look at the K04 thread close to this one, there is an interesting hybrid I found in there.

Not sure Stage 3 would be cost effective compared to sourcing parts and going to a different tune.

Not sure why there is no fuel pump, injectors, etc listed as required in stage 2 or 3 compared to some of the other tunes...?

Also, if it has not been done for a customer, APR may not have all the parts prepared for this project.

On the K04 kit, there is no requirement for extra fuel except the 4 bar fuel pressure regulator. The stage 3 kit requires a lot more fuel.


That right there summed up exactly why my Polo is only ever going to have its tune, plus the odd thing here or there as it needs replacing.

If you wanted a powerful turbo sports car than can handle, the better value for money is save the cash you would otherwise spend on mods on the Polo and just buy that EVO/STI etc. that you'd really like. You'll end up with a better sports car, that has most of the things you want (more power, better brakes, better handling etc.) from the factory... and you'll have a much better platform to start your modifications.

This is an excellent point & the main reason why lots of people have not run out & installed stage 3 on a polo.

[Guy_H]

This is the kit am looking at:
http://www.goapreu.com/products/stage3plus_trans.htm

This includes everything i need including software. Works out just over £4K time you add on VAT!

I dont really want to go and buy parts seperate and do a custom build. APR are in my opinion the best tuners out there. Lots of research has went into this kit and mapping it to suit. They say it is fine on standard internals, but am just wondering what everyone else thinks?

Kenny

Thats a good kit Kenny, but is only for LHD Cars - we have been supplying the RHD specific parts to Awesome GTI (APR UK) for several years for the RHD specific kit - they mainly use them on MKIV GTI's although we have confirmed fitment to a Polo (with full battery relocation & exhaust modification).


correct me if im wrong but i thaught the pog had trouble squeezing in the stage 3 apr set up? how are these guys in the uk , fitting them in?

See above :cool:

[Guy_H]

I didn't buy the APR set up, because I thought it won't fit...

Now, after my nightmare I'm pretty sure the APR exhaust manifold will fit.

The problem is in the pressurization tubes, intake, downpipe... all made to fit the Golf... I'm not sure if it will be plug'n'play in the Polo.

The APR kit is very complete, there is a video on YouTube explaining most of the kit components.

The only negative point that I saw is the software. In my case, I had to open the ECU and change the chip. It won’t accept direct port programming. You can see a parallel port over it.

Ohh.. Guess what! It didn’t work. I had to ship it to US to be checked… It will be back here in the next week.

My car is running with the APR k04 software.


http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/ (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/img0831.jpg/)

EMCS Module (that soldered on module) is not required for stage 3 on AUS or UK specification Polo's. There may be a reason why your Brazillian dealer has used one (I can not think why). Once an EMCS module has been fitted, you can not direct port program a car.

Oh, not much of the Golf stage 3 (LHD KIT) is applicable.

[Guy_H]

Parallel port allows you to tune with a BDM set up, vehicles from 2010 are going back to BDM set up, which is open ecu again like you have, will be around 12mnths before its back to serial flash, however im surprised that you cant on yours mate, whats the story there???
Cheers
Jmac

See above, it's standard ME 7 fitted with an EMCS board. ME7 does not have BDM ports.


The dealer told me that the Stage3 software is older, more complex, this chip have space for only one programming and can’t be access through the cruise control.

I’m surprised it didn’t work. I think it is a hardware problem.

Sounds like something is not right.


i can sort of see that on a Passat but not a Polo im sure you agree. Wonder how many are like that. Lots of the new stuff like i say has went backwards a little from serial to BDM again. where the Eeprom is there should be a row of parallel pins( female, this is wher the BDM spikes go to do the Zapping. Im very surprised at a POlo ecu having that drama.
Interesting
Jmac

Not on ME7, we can load a full stage 3+ programming suite into the Polo via direct port programming. Maybe its a Brazillian thing - or maybe just the Brazillian installer.

[Plautos]

EMCS Module (that soldered on module) is not required for stage 3 on AUS or UK specification Polo's. There may be a reason why your Brazillian dealer has used one (I can not think why). Once an EMCS module has been fitted, you can not direct port program a car.

Oh, not much of the Golf stage 3 (LHD KIT) is applicable.

We are following the instructions given from USA.
But if you are telling it could be done by other way, I will ask how.