LSD for DSG on a GTI

[John Deere]

Struggling to get the power down through the corners, and from all accounts an LSD will help. The search turned up a little, but not much specific to DSG.....So I have a few questions:

Has anyone installed one?

What types have people used?

Any reliabiliy issues that people know about?

How much to a)purchase and b)install?

Who is Sydney should I trust my girl to??

[Maverick]

Check out golfmkv.com but for general road use they seem to be a waste of time, they're good on the track but not on the road.

I'd check out your front tyres first, it's they cheap tyres get something decent as this will play more of a role than a LSD and if that fails changing your driving style is all there is left.

The standard LSD's fitted are around $3500 IIRC with a proper LSD $5-6000.

[John Deere]

The problem mainly exists at the track. Tyres are Yoki Advan AD08 (Semi Slicks) and I dont think they are the weak link.
The problem is not the wheels spinning all the time (I try not to let that happen), but a matter of wanting to get more of the available power down through the back of the corners.

Thanks for the figures.

[Timbo]

Welcome to tracking FWDs :frown:

[noone]

The issue is the pressure on your inside wheel is less than that on your outside wheel (which you obviously know).

What about an upgraded or added swaybar or stiffer suspension?

[John Deere]

A very logical thing to consider. Only issue is I like the comfort of the daily drive as it is....and LSD probably would not affect that, suspension would, though a sway bar or two, not so much (and have been thought about a few times).

The balancing act continues.

[TRGTI]

i have one installed on my GTI.
although i have VF STG3 kit installed so i need it anyways. gotta get the power down somehow:cool:
i got the Peloquin LSD for DSG.
cost me all up 2K landed and another $800.00 fitted, but that was with the DSG already off the car. labour will cost more if the workshop has to take the DSG out themselves.

if you track your car than the LSD is worth it.
no more inside wheel spinning!

[PASHN8]

Much difference on the street or launch, or is it really more for corner exit traction?

[TRGTI]

Much difference on the street or launch, or is it really more for corner exit traction?

there is a difference on the street. i found that out doing a U-turn. lol forgot that i had the LSD in and was expecting the inner wheel to spin but nope. the car basically tracked where the wheels were facing and i nearly went straight over the median strip again. launching is also better. but corner exit is where you can feel the extra traction. you can actually feel it pull the car out of the corner.

[John Deere]

Great info, thanks.

Where did you get it from?

[schoona]

Peloquin and Quaifes are the ones you are looking for. Possibly Wavetrac make one too.

Lots of US tuning sites have them, I think APR and Quaife are in partnership also.

[TRGTI]

Great info, thanks.

Where did you get it from?

i got mine from Lucas @ EUROSPEED.

[NabzGTI]

I was also looking into getting an LSD kit for my GTI. There are only 2 you can buy for the DSG at the moment:

Peloquin: http://www.peloquins.com/products_02E2W.html
Quaife: http://www.quaife.co.uk/VW-DSG-ATB-diff

You can easily shop around by using the model numbers in google or something. They are very similar in reviews.. it all comes down to preference.

Personally, I dont think you should go down the LSD path unless you go big turbo upgrade first. Stick to things like suspension, mounts/inserts, tyres, swaybars and anti lift kits.

From what I've heard, the Whiteline Anti Lift Kit (WALK) is the best bang for buck and is the best way to reduce wheelspin after LSD. LSD is definitely the "best" way, but you may get caught out on normal street driving, not to mention it's cost.

If you do decide to go down the LSD path, make sure you take it to someone VERY experienced with the DSG gearbox.. it is very intricate and is worth in excess of $10,000 on its own.

Good luck either way.

[bazzle]

In my past................. front lsd's were a pain, gave massive understeer under hard power apps. You had to change your whole driving stlye, ie. hard into corner slight throttle lift to bring rear around a bit and then power out. Bit hard to do on the road though.

Bazzle

[schnitzel baby]

I've now had three FWD cars with limited slip diffs and I wouldn't have one without it now. Seb recently installed one (Peloquin) in my MKV just before I did the ATC at Lang Lang and it made a remarkable difference.

Cost is somewhere between $2500 and $3500 installed and you want to get a Quaiffe or Peloquin. The standard open diffs send power to the wheel with least grip, the torque sensing (Torsen) Peloquins and Quaiffes send power to the wheel with most grip. Also, torque steer has been virtually non existent.

[johnc]

My Peloquin should be arriving on Monday. Cleared customs on Friday.

[johnc]

Just came in. Heavy little sucker. Package weighed in a 10.6kgs.

Will post some feedback after I have Derek fit it.

Probably won't have much to say till the next track day in April.

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/PeloquinLSDDSGb.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/PeloquinLSDDSGa.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/PeloquinLSDDSGc.jpg

[tinto]

Nice one John, you bit the bullet!

[Tim]

Noice!

Is there any grade written on the bolts that come with it? I have heard a few stories of Peloquins sheering bolts now so its something to be cautious of.

[johnc]

Credit to you for the lead Mart. Forgot to mention that. I got it from Peter Lindvall (thescirocco.com) who you helped point me in the direction off. :thumbup:

He was great to deal with. Lots of good communication along the way. Top bloke.

[johnc]

Noice!

Is there any grade written on the bolts that come with it? I have heard a few stories of Peloquins sheering bolts now so its something to be cautious of.

The supplied info states that they're the new ARP 2000 bolts. The bolts themselves have ARP PRO written on them. All of the required torque specs are listed.
This one took a little longer as they were producing it late last year.

Also got offered a race spec with a 380NM breakaway over the regular 100NM which I declined. I think the 100NM breakaway would be more effective with my turbo/tune.

[Tim]

cool. I had heard they had started shipping with ARP bolts.. was just curious to see if it was the case

[John Deere]

Where did you get it from John, and what made you go for that over a Quaife?

[johnc]

Where did you get it from John, and what made you go for that over a Quaife?

Tinto pointed me in the direction of Peter Lindvall @ thescirocco.com.

Went for it over the Quaife just based on various commentary across the range of forums and just general googling. There was outright and absolute reason why I went with Peloquin. At least not to my current memory. I'd been reading various stuff about them over the past year of so and seemed to come to the conclusion that I was going with a Peloquin.

Contact Peter: peter@thescirocco.com if you'd like to order one.

[AusScare]

Since no one has mentioned it yet, ECS sell the dsg lsd.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Drivetrain/LSD/

[10d]

Just came in. Heavy little sucker. Package weighed in a 10.6kgs.

Will post some feedback after I have Derek fit it.

Probably won't have much to say till the next track day in April.



John,

Lemme know when you sending your car to Derek. I might meet you there.

[John Deere]

I would love to hear some feed back on the mod after it is installed.

[johnc]

I'll have some proper feedback after a track day. Lap times might help, but sadly I'm not that consistent a driver just yet. Couldn't better 1.14.5 @ Wakefield (which isn't great for my spec, but okay for my first time). Will see what I can do next time round.

[John Deere]

I'll never be a great track driver, but its a helluva lot of fun...and I imagine even more with an LSD.

(I couldn't break 2:07's around Eastern Creek and there was a stock GTI running 2:05's.)

[tinto]

if the discipline to perform 'slow in / fast out' and feeding on the power didn't feel so boring.... we'd all be Pro!
MASH correct, MASH understeer, MASH sliiide (thats the theme of my first few laps at any track day)

[John Deere]

Hehe, yeah, mashing happens!

[FIR-26T]

Hi John, I too have exactly the same dilemma as you wanting to get more power to the ground and through corners with the DSG PIRELLI…
Trust me LSD is worth every penny…..
Not only will you have more grip taking off, breaking will be improved and acceleration through the corners will amaze you….
Like others have said you can actually feel LSD pull the car out of the corner with so much more traction….

I owned a Renault Megane R26 which has an LSD and let me tell you it’s the BOMB…..
I tracked the Renault Megane R26, way too many times and even though I had less power I was overtaking modified GTI’s and modified R32’s on the track…. I must say i am an aggressive driver "a bit" and like to test the limits.....
That could have been you that I have overtaken several times on the race track ;)
You will improve your lap times by 2-3 seconds easily…. If you’re a pro driver then expect more…..
To give you an idea around Wakefield Park my best lap time was 1:11.85 and first time at Eastern Creek I got a 1:55….. Could easily drop another 3-4 seconds at EC as I was taking it easy ;)
If your chasing times on track then an LSD is the way to go…..
If anyone attends a track day im more then happy to attend and give you a few pointers, driving lines etc......
Hope to see a few of you guys on the track soon....

The LSD is great and for general road use its even better, safer and NOT a waste of time….. Several times while driving the R26 on public roads, I had to slam my brakes because of cars merging into my lane out of the blue…. The LSD will assist and compliment the ABS and will not pull your car to one side as I have found out with the PIRELLI……
I cannot stress how much I want an LSD to be installed on my current PIRELLI…..
Every time I enter the corner with the PIRELLI I laugh at how different the cornering is without a LSD.....
At one stage I wanted to sell the PIRELLI and go back to the R26 just because of that….
BUT I must say the VW are better build and user friendly….. AND I fell in love with the DSG, can’t believe I said that, even though I prefer a clutch….. Bit of contradiction….
So I’m making an effort to mod a few things……

QUAIFE is a company in the USA who manufacture/import LSD for various cars as others have mentioned…..
I already inquired and an LSD for a 2008 MKV Golf GTI PIRELLI will cost $1600 plus $200-$300 postage….
Labour cost to install the LSD I am not aware of…..
Since some of you fellas are going to Derek, how much is he charging for labour????

Obviously a good set of sticky tyres will compliment the LSD and further improve the cornering capabilities….
Tyre pressure is very crucial…..
Try a tyres pressure of 25 PSI (COLD) on your front tyres when you’re on the track to make the tyre flex and do its job properly….
Don’t get scared if the tyres look deflated…..
The PSI will increase once the tyres warm up by 5-10 PSI, depending how hard you drive, meaning it will rise to 30+ and once the tyres warm up bring the PSI up/down to 30/32 (HOT)….
You will need to repeat this process 2-3 times coming on and off the track, try to match the tyre pressure that suites you and your driving… I see way too many drivers going on the track with too much pressure in their tyres…. They start of with 40 PSI (COLD) and by the time the tyres warm up the PSI rises to 50…….

If you install a sway bar and upgrade your suspension, once again you will notice minor changes COMPARED to the LSD….
Saying that, I would rather invest in an LSD, then if you are planning some serious track work then upgrade the above bits and pieces….

[FIR-26T]

Spoke to Derek (APR) and got quoted $2000 for labour/installing an LSD....

[Manaz]

Not only will you have more grip taking off, breaking will be improved and acceleration through the corners will amaze you….
Like others have said you can actually feel LSD pull the car out of the corner with so much more traction….

I'm very interested in knowing how an LSD helps braking (I've never heard it before, if you have data, please share, and no, I'm not taking the piss, I don't have any personal experience with an LSD, so am keen to learn before I make the decision to go with one myself!)

For what it's worth, if anyone is considering getting an LSD from ECS, let me know, I may be able to help out with a price (just ran a big GB with them, considering running another shortly).

[FIR-26T]

I am interested for sure.... Let me know how you go????

GOOD POINT, there is no actual fact (that i know of) to state that the LSD is beneficial when it comes to breaking....

Talking from personal experience while racing and owning hot hatch front wheel drive cars.... I actually mentioned it in the same post.

"I had to slam my brakes because of cars merging into my lane. The LSD will assist and compliment the ABS and will not pull your car to one side as I have found out with the PIRELLI"

PRO's of LSD;

- Both wheels will grip the road surface at the same time, no matter if its dry, wet, gravel etc....

- Assist, compliment & enhance the ABS, ESP, EBD.....

- From racing experience, you can break in the corner at high speeds (NOT recommended :) ), as a result the LSD will be more responsive, give the driver a greater feedback and control of the car....

- Reduces understeer if you decide to break in corners......

CON's of not having an LSD;

- If your car does not have LSD, like my PIRELLI, when you slam your breaks my front right wheel seems to do all the work (greater load on that side) while the left wheel seems to be odd and starts pulling the car to one side.....

- I can only imagine how bad the pull "to one side" will be once on the race track, if i decide to break in the corners :banana: ....

[John Deere]

I don't want to break anything, but i sometimes brake in corners!! /spelling nazi :p

Seriously, thanks for the info! They are some mighty impressive lap times too....best I could rustle up with an APR stage 1 GTI was about 2:05.

If there is a group buy and the timing is right I could be in!!

[FIR-26T]

I don't want to break anything, but i sometimes brake in corners!! /spelling nazi :p

Seriously, thanks for the info! They are some mighty impressive lap times too....best I could rustle up with an APR stage 1 GTI was about 2:05.

If there is a group buy and the timing is right I could be in!!

THANKS... Im looking at several options for buying and installing an LSD....

Will keep you fellas posted....

[Jeffie]

Come on, just get an R26 again, you know you wanna :P


Check out golfmkv.com but for general road use they seem to be a waste of time, they're good on the track but not on the road.

I'd check out your front tyres first, it's they cheap tyres get something decent as this will play more of a role than a LSD and if that fails changing your driving style is all there is left.

The standard LSD's fitted are around $3500 IIRC with a proper LSD $5-6000.

Gotta love keyboard veterans that know how everything works... in theory, from what others say on the net.

An LSD is GREAT on the road as all of those that have actually experienced one have stated. On a wet day on Moss Vale road, powering hard out of slow corners my R26 just gripped and launched up the road. No ESP intervention, no wheelspin, just acceleration.

[Golf Houso]

Gotta love keyboard veterans that know how everything works... in theory, from what others say on the net.

An LSD is GREAT on the road as all of those that have actually experienced one have stated. On a wet day on Moss Vale road, powering hard out of slow corners my R26 just gripped and launched up the road. No ESP intervention, no wheelspin, just acceleration.

Definately, its so easy to complain something you have no concept of but until you drive a high HP fwd with an LSD you'll understand exactly what its for. The car is just begging you for a rapid launch, let alone the assistance it provides through corners.

Pirelli, I reckon you'd easily shave off 0.5 of a second off your WSID time with it no less...

[FIR-26T]

Gotta love keyboard veterans that know how everything works... in theory, from what others say on the net.

An LSD is GREAT on the road as all of those that have actually experienced one have stated. On a wet day on Moss Vale road, powering hard out of slow corners my R26 just gripped and launched up the road. No ESP intervention, no wheelspin, just acceleration.

+1 totally agree with you

[FIR-26T]

Gotta love keyboard veterans that know how everything works... in theory, from what others say on the net.

The LSD is a waste of time, EVEN though VW decided to install the unit on the MK6 :rolleyes::banana:

ANYWAY, seems to be an expensive option ATM....

WILL get in contact with my Race Event organisors and they might be able to help me out with the LSD + Labour costs... Will keep you fellas posted....

[Big Yellow]

The LSD is a waste of time, EVEN though VW decided to install the unit on the MK6 :rolleyes::banana:

ANYWAY, seems to be an expensive option ATM....

WILL get in contact with my Race Event organisors and they might be able to help me out with the LSD + Labour costs... Will keep you fellas posted....
Mk6 has LSD?? i thought it was some quasi-electro torque thingy, not a proper mechanical LSD

[Jeffie]

Im pretty sure its an electro torque biasing diff, but i'll wait until mav has scoured the internet and posted something hes found.

[FIR-26T]

Mk6 has LSD?? i thought it was some quasi-electro torque thingy, not a proper mechanical LSD

Thats TRUE... Its a mechanical/electronic/software thingy NOT a proper hardware LSD unit....

[TRGTI]

Come on, just get an R26 again, you know you wanna :P



Gotta love keyboard veterans that know how everything works... in theory, from what others say on the net.

An LSD is GREAT on the road as all of those that have actually experienced one have stated. On a wet day on Moss Vale road, powering hard out of slow corners my R26 just gripped and launched up the road. No ESP intervention, no wheelspin, just acceleration.

LSD on the road is def worth it. with the amount of power our cars are making, it helps heaps.
i've had mine in for a year now and you can definitely feel it working.
the car actually goes where you point it. which is a lot better than sitting there with the inside wheel spinning.

[johnc]

Some progress pics attached. Looks pretty elaborate to me, Derek said it was actually quite simple.

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG1.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG2.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG3.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG4.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG5.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG6.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG7.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG8.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG9.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG10.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG11.jpg

http://www.illektronik.com/GolfMKV.com/EA_Opened_Golf_DSG12.jpg

[benough]

Great pics. So that's what a DSG box looks like. My brain still makes no sense of it.

[johnc]

Great pics. So that's what a DSG box looks like. My brain still makes no sense of it.

Derek tried to explain some of it, but that's like teaching a cat to bark. Shame I can't be there for the process due to work as I probably would learn something.

[benough]

haha, a cat to bark, nice!

Yeah I have always wanted to see/understand a gearbox being built. It's the last (mechanical) frontier for me. That and women...

[johnc]

LOL. Good gearbox vs Good Woman. I'll take the Good Woman. They're simple to operate. Plug & Play so to speak. :) :wife_2:


haha, a cat to bark, nice!

Yeah I have always wanted to see/understand a gearbox being built. It's the last (mechanical) frontier for me. That and women...

[benough]

HAHAHA!

That said I need a thinner oil in my woman, maybe a 10W-40. She takes too long to warm up!

:bolt:

[solo72]

Hey Guys, just got my quaife lsd for my mk5 gti pirelli.........can anyone please tell were i can go and have it installed (melbourne)?????????????. they would need to have done some at least . i dont want yeah we can give to go bull****..any ideas would be great

[Guy_H]

Due to the side bearing failure issues that can plague the Quaife's in DSG's, make sure its someone who has done that particular brand before. Your retailer should have an approved installer list.



Hey Guys, just got my quaife lsd for my mk5 gti pirelli.........can anyone please tell were i can go and have it installed (melbourne)?????????????. they would need to have done some at least . i dont want yeah we can give to go bull****..any ideas would be great

[VW Central]

Hey Guys, just got my quaife lsd for my mk5 gti pirelli.........can anyone please tell were i can go and have it installed (melbourne)?????????????. they would need to have done some at least . i dont want yeah we can give to go bull****..any ideas would be great

Just out of curiosity why did you go down Quaife route when peloquin is the better LSD for not much more money?