Petrol or Diesel

[denilu]

Hi all

Newbie here - my name is Lou and I am in Sydney - excuse the dumb questions as I know very little about how to fix what is under the hood.

I am tossing up between current Golf 2.0FSI and 2.0TDI. I am not sure whether to go petrol or diesel. I have rented diesels o/s and had not issues. I am not sure about maintenance costs for the diesel compared to the petrol version.

I read somewhere that diesels are a lot more hassle for mechanics and that they will cost much more to service.

99% of my driving will be around Sydney in traffic - will I see the lower fuel costs in the diesel of it that for country driving?

I also read on another thread here that VW are getting rid of TDI and moving to common rail diesel. Does that mean I should wait or perhaps get a petrol car?

I am looking for a car we can keep for at least 6-7 years.

Any tips would be appreciated.


Thanks

[eestison]

hi, and welcome

i had the same decision to make and ended up going for the 2.0TDI. i have had mine now for ~15 months.

i do mainly city driving in brisbane and manage to get 800km out of a 55l tank of diesel with a weighted foot, the economy is great, on the highway i get a little over 1000km from a tank now that the car is run in. i have done just under 17000km.

as for the servicing costs, i am not sure. i have have free servicing for another two years. i believe the scheduled costs begin around $350 for the first sevice and then go up in small increments per 15000km service interval. i think the 60000km service is around $450 to $500.

my car used approximately 600mL of oil in the first 10000km, over an 11 month period. it has used no more oil since the first service at 12mths.

as for the TDI being phased out... well, yes and no. the TDI will still be a TDI, but the PD (pump duse or unit injector) type engines are being replaced by CR (common rail) engines.

The current 2.0TDI engine code is BKD, the 2.0TDI (with CR technology and DPF) engine code is BMN. The BKD engines are good for 103kW and 320NM of torque, the BMN engines are good for 125kW and 350NM of torque.

The BMN engines are being used in the euro spec VW/Audi models, they are not yet available in the models we get here - i am hoping to see them here soon :-).

The BKD engine is capable of the same figures as the stock BMN engine. There are a number of companies offering software upgrades for this, oettinger is one of them.

http://www.oettinger.com.au/oau_vwgolf5_et.html

hope this helps.


*edit

and i forgot to mention the most important thing. the 2.0TDI is loads of fun, aside from a little lag off the line it goes exceptionally well. from a standing start or accelerating in gear this car gets up and goes very well indeed. i drove both the 2.0FSI and the 2.0TDI on extended runs in mixed conditions and the 2.0TDI won hands down... the only thing that i preferred in the 2.0FSI was the engine note at high rpm. The 2.0FSI punches out 110kW (an extra 7kW or 10HP over the 2.0TDI) and 200NM of torque.

2.0 TDI = torque = fun :-)

*edit mk II

my apologies. i stand corrected, the 125kW 2.0TDI with DPF is not a CR engine - so i am told. apparently the CR engines are yet to even be in production - this is news to me. oh well, any improvement made by VW is sure to be a blast to drive over and above the PD 103kW and PD DPF 125kW engines.

boy is my face red. haha. oops. i should not have rattled off that it was CR before i knew for sure.

watch this vwvortex thread for more info... http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3099705

[shogun2]

hi, and welcome
and i forgot to mention the most important thing. the 2.0TDI is loads of fun, aside from a little lag off the line it goes exceptionally well. from a standing start or accelerating in gear this car gets up and goes very well indeed. i drove both the 2.0FSI and the 2.0TDI on extended runs in mixed conditions and the 2.0TDI won hands down... the only thing that i preferred in the 2.0FSI was the engine note at high rpm. The 2.0FSI punches out 110kW (an extra 7kW or 10HP over the 2.0TDI) and 200NM of torque.

2.0 TDI = torque = fun :-)

If you want more you can always chip it.
The 2.0 TDI with chip is awesome!
I have the Diesel Power chip, and whilst I haven't done a dyno on it they say that I should be getting 30% extra power and 400nM! Fuel consumption is approx the same as without the chip - but driving is a hell of a lot more fun! Just need to change tyres, cos they have a habit of squealing too much.

[Sportie]

Hi all, new member with first post. Hope I know what I'm doing.

Wheels magazine did a comparison test between the two. I think it would have been 2005 or early 2006. You may be able to see it at your local library (which is where I saw it). They divided it into sections and each model had it's share of wins. From memory they decided the FSI by a nose, because it was cleaner at the fuel pump, but I must say my memory isn't the best. Certainly worth a read. If you don't have any luck I may be able to find again.

[phaeton]

Welcome denilu & Sportie :D

denilu- if you have the money wait for the GT with TSI that would be the best overall ;)

Sportie-Yeah I remember that article too, IIRC was the Prius also involved with that test ?

[Sportie]

Just 2 golf's.

[GoLfMan]

diesel hands down mate!!!! :D

[phaeton]

Just 2 golf's.

O cool thanks ;)

They did a later one with a Prius IIRC as well :)

[gldgti]

Hi all, new member with first post. Hope I know what I'm doing.

Wheels magazine did a comparison test between the two. I think it would have been 2005 or early 2006. You may be able to see it at your local library (which is where I saw it). They divided it into sections and each model had it's share of wins. From memory they decided the FSI by a nose, because it was cleaner at the fuel pump, but I must say my memory isn't the best. Certainly worth a read. If you don't have any luck I may be able to find again.

welcome mate....

but..

wheels magazine is possibly the crappiest car mag around, the people who do the testing and writing are not clever or practical, hence the new bommadore being car of the year last.

there is a common dislike of diesels among "aussies" which is a total load of crap. all the best aussies care about is the future of the planet and our fine country yes? so the diesel should win hands down every time... even if it was half as powerful and cost twice as much.... but its not, so theres a nice bonus.

now, stepping off my soap box...

[Guy_H]

Just got some info from my friends inside VW:

125kw diesel Golfs due in April - its a 3rd model, sold for more than the 103kw & 1.9l

Golf GT 1.4 TSI is due in June (we are ready!)

http://www.oettinger.com/navi_e.php?motor_id=1028

The higher output diesel will arrive in the Jetta & Passat in the MY 08 models.

:cool:

[Sportie]

Car of the Year. Wonderful decision thatj: . I was listening to ABC radio the other night & they said that Holden invited Robbo (I think he’s the editor) back from Europe a few years ago to observe all of the development work and testing with a view to writing a book at the end. It’s just been published. Suddenly it all became clear.
Anyway, can’t be too critical because when they did their “megatest” of the top hatches the winner was GOLF. That led me to the wonderful Sportline that keeps me smiling:) day after day. Of course that led me here to dream that one day I may be in the terrible position of having to decide whether to buy the GTI or R32. Bloody wheels magazine.

[blue_r32]

I haven't driven the petrol version, but the loan TDI that I picked up this morning is a great car to drive, it surprised me when it came on boost actually!

I would certainly buy one (for the missus, I'm keeping the .:R), very low fuel consumption is great.

[fergVdub]

Hi Denilu,

i am the happy owner of a TDI Jetta, I drive around the city but regularly drive in the bush and this is obviously where the diesel comes into its own, but I must say that being somewhat lead footed and still getting 750K + in he city whilst getting 990+ on the highway does it for me, and I stll get performance when I push the peddle. I have about 5k+ on the clock at the moment and from what I understand the fuel consumption will only improve as the engine beds down.

How fast do you need go whilst still saving fuel and being kind to the planet,as has been previusly said go the diesel!!

good luck

ferg

[dilbert_rocks]

Hi all

I am tossing up between current Golf 2.0FSI and 2.0TDI. I am not sure whether to go petrol or diesel. I have rented diesels o/s and had not issues. I am not sure about maintenance costs for the diesel compared to the petrol version.

I read somewhere that diesels are a lot more hassle for mechanics and that they will cost much more to service.

99% of my driving will be around Sydney in traffic - will I see the lower fuel costs in the diesel of it that for country driving?



I test drove a Jetta TDI (DSG), and basically had to stomp the pedal to the floor to get the thing to move up a gentle incline. Once it got into the boost range though I didn't notice much difference with the Turbo FSI (except for the noise). I think I read somewhere that both the FSI and TDI are a better match for the manual box.

I thought the TDI was noisy at low revs, but there are other posts that mention that after about 10,000km they quieten down. The salesman told me by 10dB - which I think is just blowing smoke up my exhaust. 9dB = 2^3 (ie: 8 ) times as soft. Put another way, 1 new TDI is louder than 8 "run-in" TDI's put together. Sorry - don't believe it would be that much.

I have heard similar stories about diesels requiring qualified diesel mechanics (ie: less common) to service them, but is anyone besides VW qualified to service your vehicle anyway? That's a concern I still have. :? Fuel consumption is tempting though.

[gldgti]

I test drove a Jetta TDI (DSG), and basically had to stomp the pedal to the floor to get the thing to move up a gentle incline. Once it got into the boost range though I didn't notice much difference with the Turbo FSI (except for the noise). I think I read somewhere that both the FSI and TDI are a better match for the manual box.

I thought the TDI was noisy at low revs, but there are other posts that mention that after about 10,000km they quieten down. The salesman told me by 10dB - which I think is just blowing smoke up my exhaust. 9dB = 2^3 (ie: 8 ) times as soft. Put another way, 1 new TDI is louder than 8 "run-in" TDI's put together. Sorry - don't believe it would be that much.

I have heard similar stories about diesels requiring qualified diesel mechanics (ie: less common) to service them, but is anyone besides VW qualified to service your vehicle anyway? That's a concern I still have. :? Fuel consumption is tempting though.

your maths on dB is correct... but i dont think that assumption is accurate.

besides, its still not going to be noisy per se.... i guess you need to priorotise whats important in a car for you. for me, its someting like:
0) longevity
1) mechanical robust-ness
2) general build quality
3) handling
3) power/efficiency
4) cost
5) comfort
6) useless crap that you pay extra for - ie gadgets.

[brackie]

I test drove a Jetta TDI (DSG), and basically had to stomp the pedal to the floor to get the thing to move up a gentle incline. Once it got into the boost range though I didn't notice much difference with the Turbo FSI (except for the noise). I think I read somewhere that both the FSI and TDI are a better match for the manual box.

That's not how to drive a diesel! If you "stomp the pedal" you're wasting fuel and your time. I guess it's a bit like Dirty Harry... "Just squeeze the trigger, Sonny..." Driving diesels is all about torque and feel. Sure, they don't leap off the blocks like an equivalent petrol engined car, but they suffer from turbo lag much less. You get boost in the 1500 to 1750rpm range and then you use the gears to keep it on boost. With a DSG box the ECU does it for you.

[brenno]

We've got both an FSI 6A and a TDI DSG.

I prefer the FSI by a fair margin for city use. The TDI is just too noisy and laggy to drive for stop start stuff. You get over the massive torque hit that the TDI delivers pretty quickly.

The FSI is smoother to drive, and the instantaneous torque delivery is far better for city driving.

If I was going to drive to Canberra tomorrow though, I'd probably choose the TDI.

[brackie]

Fair call and you would be in the best position to make a comparison. I rarely drive in the city. There's no doubt that the petrol engine would be quicker off the blocks. On my country driving and long journeys the TDI is an absolute joy.

[dilbert_rocks]

There's no doubt that the petrol engine would be quicker off the blocks.

Yes, I was meaning from a standing start, and I was actually quoting the salesman "stomp on it"! :o

Given that most of my driving is stop/start and signalised intersections, the sluggish takeoff was v.annoying. Plus, we enjoy listening to opera / classical music while driving - hence the concern with cabin noise. I want to test the T FSI again to see how intrusive the turbo noise is when cruising. Is 100km/h in the boost range?

[acdcfan]

diesel hands down mate!!!! :D

I agree 120%, i

[acdcfan]

diesel hands down mate!!!! :D
VW, it aint just a car, its a way of life.
I am new here, just signed up
I agree 120%. Three weeks ago I bough my first diesel car 2.0 TDI Golf. Briliant German engineering

[brackie]

Nice to have another Western Australian aboard (I'm homesick :( )

Yes, there are +es and -es for both petrol and diesel. For me there is no argument but then I'm a Diesel Nut. :D

I agree that the diesel is noisier, I agree it's not instantaneous in its pickup and I agree that it costs more to service. However I still believe it's quiet enough, the torque if you know how to use it more than compensates for the initial tack of take off (9.2sec to 100kph ain't bad by any estimation!) and in the long run it will be cheaper to service than a petrol equivalent. It's all about choice.

[acdcfan]

[QUOTE=brackie]Nice to have another Western Australian aboard (I'm homesick :( )

Found out today about this thread. I think, haven't read all of it yet, you can find thing that you may not know about new Golf diesel

[acdcfan]

[quote=brackie]Nice to have another Western Australian aboard (I'm homesick :( )QUOTE]

How many West Australians is ther in this forums ?:confused:
And how do you get picture aginst your name ?
I have gone and reduced one I added to 80x80pixels and still not comming up?:confused:

[brackie]

[How many West Australians is ther in this forums ?:confused:

6


And how do you get picture aginst your name ?

Look in "User Tips" and all will be explained (It's called an Avatar.)


I have gone and reduced one I added to 80x80pixels and still not comming up?:confused:

[acdcfan]

6



Look in "User Tips" and all will be explained (It's called an Avatar.)

it worked. thanks Brackie

[acdcfan]

6

It looks like Westerners are in huge monority here, but this is gettin away from the topic.:D

[acdcfan]

Hi Denilu,

i am the happy owner of a TDI Jetta, I drive around the city but regularly drive in the bush and this is obviously where the diesel comes into its own, but I must say that being somewhat lead footed and still getting 750K + in he city whilst getting 990+ on the highway does it for me, and I stll get performance when I push the peddle. I have about 5k+ on the clock at the moment and from what I understand the fuel consumption will only improve as the engine beds down.

How fast do you need go whilst still saving fuel and being kind to the planet,as has been previusly said go the diesel!!

good luck

ferg

All I do is make sure i change gears on about 2000 RPM and manage to use around 5.7-6.0L/100 town driving but on the freeway i managed 4.6L/100km doing about 100kph in sixth gear.That is around 1700-1800RPM. Ihave GOLF 2.0 TDI 2007 model not even a month old but alread done 1500km.For the first week I just wanted ti drive it
In the mornings whane engine is cold i don't push it at all but slow accelaration until engine warms up that revert to above gear change. recently ( last Wednesday) i filled up and travelled nearly 200 km before nedle moved to half of a frist quater of a tank (( deos it make sence ) So all in all i have no regrets whatsoever buying this little pice of German egnineering

[brackie]

There are a number of posts regarding the speedo error in Mk5s. My mrs checked our TDI with a hand-held navigator borrowed from gtimk5 and confirmed that it's about 10kph "fast" @ 100kph. The tacho reads 2000rpm @110kph on the speedo.

I do very little city driving but consistently get under 5L/100km of country driving.

Important to get the oil hot asap before stressing the engine when running in.

[acdcfan]

[QUOTE=brackie]There are a number of posts regarding the speedo error in Mk5s. My mrs checked our TDI with a hand-held navigator borrowed from gtimk5 and confirmed that it's about 10kph "fast" @ 100kph. The tacho reads 2000rpm @110kph on the speedo.QUOTE]


So if I am sitting on 100kph I am actualy doing 110:(
Who can check speedo because this is very dangerous in respect to your $$$ in your pocket and demerit pionts ?

[brackie]

No, if you are sitting on 110 you are actually doing 100. VW say it's a "Built-in safety factor" apparently.

[acdcfan]

No, if you are sitting on 110 you are actually doing 100. VW say it's a "Built-in safety factor" apparently.

I got it wrong.:rolleyes:

[phaeton]

My Mum will either be buying a 1.9 TDI or 2.0 FSI in Comfortline config.

Which is best for inner city driving ?


Just got some info from my friends inside VW:

125kw diesel Golfs due in April - its a 3rd model, sold for more than the 103kw & 1.9l

Golf GT 1.4 TSI is due in June (we are ready!)

http://www.oettinger.com/navi_e.php?motor_id=1028

The higher output diesel will arrive in the Jetta & Passat in the MY 08 models.

:cool:

Yes yes yes GT TDI ::does happy dance:: lol :D
and in Jetta and Passat :D

How relaible is your source Guy :D ?

[Sportie]

There are a number of posts regarding the speedo error in Mk5s. My mrs checked our TDI with a hand-held navigator borrowed from gtimk5 and confirmed that it's about 10kph "fast" @ 100kph. The tacho reads 2000rpm @110kph on the speedo.

I was of the opinion that the speed calculated by the computer was accurate, ie. set display to show average kph and reset. Reading is current speed. Best to check with cruise on.

Do you know if this is correct?

[and133]

I have 2.0 petrol and i would never change it for the LOUDER, more truckish sounding diesel. I am a bit of a leadfoot and have taken the diesel for a bit of a drive when servicing my car.. but i cant stand the diesel sound. I dont hate it any longer though, i appreciate it now. Either are fantastic though. But because of the louder engine the diesel isnt for me.

[TDI DSG]

With regards to the speedo error it is 10%. The odometer however is spot on - so fuel efficiency can be accurately calculated from the distance travelled/litres used. I have tested this as the dealers (several of them) couldnt tell me. If the ododmeter isnt correct economy would seem to be 10% better than it actually is.

[gldgti]

I have 2.0 petrol and i would never change it for the LOUDER, more truckish sounding diesel. I am a bit of a leadfoot and have taken the diesel for a bit of a drive when servicing my car.. but i cant stand the diesel sound. I dont hate it any longer though, i appreciate it now. Either are fantastic though. But because of the louder engine the diesel isnt for me.

i saw you today! driving up the pacific you followed me from Bobbin head road! sorry if i smoked you with my 30 year old diesel. i couldnt help noticing your sweet lookin mk5 with the foggies turned on.

if you didnt notice me, i was directly infront of you at the bobbin head rd intersection.

[brackie]

With regards to the speedo error it is 10%. The odometer however is spot on - so fuel efficiency can be accurately calculated from the distance travelled/litres used. I have tested this as the dealers (several of them) couldnt tell me. If the ododmeter isnt correct economy would seem to be 10% better than it actually is.
Yes, the speedo error is pretty much confirmed by the GPS.
How did you validate the odometer?

[Rod_H]

Adding to the speedo error, Mine is out by 9kph.
Have not been able to get below about 5.3L/100k on highways as yet.
6500k's on clock ... it's improving slowly..:)

[TDI DSG]

Yes, the speedo error is pretty much confirmed by the GPS.
How did you validate the odometer?

I have a car that has an accurate speedo - the odometer reads the same as the golf over a 100k round trip

[acdcfan]

Adding to the speedo error, Mine is out by 9kph.
Have not been able to get below about 5.3L/100k on highways as yet.
6500k's on clock ... it's improving slowly..:)

First day I took it out on the freeway I got 4.7l/100 km and even managed 4.3l/100
I don't accelerate hard when engine cold, instead I wait until warmed up and than go for it

[Jettinabout]

Get the diesel....ya grand critters will thank you for it.....I have a TDI Jetta with 16000 on the clock(drove a suby liberty before that-nice car but the J is better)...the stereo is amazing, yes I listen to opera with it and no problems with noise...they are aqiuet car even at low speed and revs.

Hands up all those that replied to this thread who don't drive both petrol and diesel......then don't comment. If you don't, then tell the guy. He is in all likelyhood going to base an expensive decision on the outcome. Not meaning to flame anyone but we have to be responsible in situations like this.

[shogun2]

Get the diesel....
Hands up all those that replied to this thread who don't drive both petrol and diesel......then don't comment. If you don't, then tell the guy. He is in all likelyhood going to base an expensive decision on the outcome. Not meaning to flame anyone but we have to be responsible in situations like this.

Before our Gof TDI I drove a Subie twin turbo Liberty - I would never go back.

[acdcfan]

Get the diesel....
Hands up all those that replied to this thread who don't drive both petrol and diesel......then don't comment. If you don't, then tell the guy. He is in all likelyhood going to base an expensive decision on the outcome. Not meaning to flame anyone but we have to be responsible in situations like this.

Before I got mine, I drove VS V6 commodore and will never go back to petrol engine:D

[JP_Aircooled_TDi]

After seeing all the diesel performance cars in Europe and Brittain, I promised myself a similar car at home (Oz).

After having spent bucket loads of cash doing up petrol engines, my MkV 2TDi just shames all my previous efforts - and it is standard :)

I could never go back to buying a new petrol car - just can't justify the higher fuel consumption and poorer performance of a petrol engine.

Diesel for me :cool:

(In saying that, just bought myself a '76 MkI to play with :rolleyes: , as the MkV is the family car. I wonder how much effort it would be to fit a 1.9TDi into the MkI ;) )