A couple of Mk. 2 GTI questions............

[Rossco_111]

Being new to the VWwatercooled forum and the Mk.2 GTI model, please excuse me if the following questions have been covered by others in the past..............

1. I believe the Aussie Mk.2 has a restrictive exhaust manifold and there are other exhaust mainfolds from other VW (and SEAT?) engines that fit and would improve the breathing. Can anyone advise where a suitable manifold could be sourced and the approximate cost?

2. People talk about a 2L bottom end modification. What is this? And what are the benefits?

Many thanks!

Rossco

[velly_16v_cab]

you can import an manifold from europe ;P
or fit a mk3 and get it made to fit the standard system.


2.0 is a simple swap, the only hard bit is that the block is taller so you need a longer downpipe on the exhaust and the throttle body will hit the bonnet when shut! but you can fix this with a hammer ;) I will upload a photo of what i mean later tonight.

2.0 gives the car more torque and nicer to drive:banana:

[dubstar]

you can import an manifold from europe ;P
or fit a mk3 and get it made to fit the standard system.


2.0 is a simple swap, the only hard bit is that the block is taller so you need a longer downpipe on the exhaust and the throttle body will hit the bonnet when shut! but you can fix this with a hammer ;) I will upload a photo of what i mean later tonight.

2.0 gives the car more torque and nicer to drive:banana:


I did a AGG 2.0L bottom end swap on my K-jet Mk2 GTI. You don't need to use a different downpipe and it didn't touch my bonnet. The only time the exhaust will foul the firewall is if you have headers. Was a simple swap and produced great reults. Here's my build thread:

http://www.vask.org.nz/index.php/topic,5099.0.html

In terms of exhaust, any 8v Golf 3 manifold and downpipe will fit, but perhaps go for a set of headers to match your swap?

[velly_16v_cab]

mine was a 3E bottom end and a digifantnot k-jet, maybe that why there is a difference

[dubstar]

3E? Do you mean 2E?

[rob64981]

you can import an manifold from europe ;P


'What' is the difference and 'why' was this?

And how much of the exhaust is different?

I thought my MK2 GTI did not seem to be as strong as the ones i had in the UK.

Thanks Rob

[velly_16v_cab]

yeah 2E...my bad lol

exhaust were different as UK ones never had to run CAT's so can free'er flowing.

[Spyda]

The 2E bottom end is 2cm taller, which gives it a longer stroke and thats where it gets the extra displacement. Because the piston has to travel further the engine wont rev as well as a 1.8 but will produce more torque.

The AGG bottom end is harder to find and comes on some audis, i think its also called a buble block. It has a larger bore instead of a longer stroke. So it is the same hight as a 1.8 but because of the larger bore it has greater displacement and will also rev a bit more freely BUT it produces a bit less torque than the 2E IIRC.

The mk3 exhaust manifold and duel downpipe is a cheap and easy mod that will realy free up the head flow. Its the closest you will get to extractors using a standard exhaust.

I have a 2E bottom end on mine and a mk3 downpipe and exhaust manifold. The engine revs alot better than the RV with the toilet bowl manifold. The first time i drove it i kept bouncing off redline becuase it reved up so unexpectedly quick.
I dont realy see a problem with the intake manifold clearing the bonnet and im asuming because i have the downpipe it already compensates for the 2cm taller block. All the 2cm realy means is that the exhaust will be 2cm closer to the heat shield.

A 2E bottom end and duel downpipe is a fantastic way to spend $600, it will turn the boring RV in to an actual GTI.

[Golf Loon]

AGG is common Spyda, late model Golf 3s.
The 3A is the 2L Audi engine and is the shortblock 2L. Not very common

I have never had clearance problems putting 2Ls into Mk2s.
Mk1s will hit on the bonnet, but Mk2 is sweet.
Even the ABF in my Mk2 was fine.

The Golf 3 Downpipe and manifold is a good upgrade for an Aussie Mk2 as it is freer flowing. It will hit on the subframe and will need a small bit chopped out, unless you are running a taller 2L engine.

The UK GTIs were 110Hp and the Aussie ones are 90Hp. the differences are manifold, cam and valves and ecu.
Aussie intake valves are 32mm UK ones are 38 and South African ones are 40!

[Rossco_111]

thanks for the replies guys and the good ideas..........

as I said, I'm new to Mk.2's so are still a bit green.

There seems to be many very experienced people on this Forum!

Sounds like a Mk. 3 manifold and twin down pipes and a new exhaust is a recommended and worthwhile 'cheap' modification to make to an Aussie Mk.2.
(would it be possible to bend the down-pipes slightly rather than cut the sub-frame?)

Any idea where to source a 2nd hand Mk.3 manifold? I guess the down-pipes would have to be 'factory'?

Cheers!

Rossco

[velly_16v_cab]

i really need to change my manifold, still running std RV one :emo_baghead:

[ozgti]

I have a 16v Magnex exhaust on my gti, will be for sale soon as I'm going back to mildly modified... Sounds awesome, but then again, I have the UK Kjet!!!

[rob64981]

So let me get this correct..

If i get a UK MK2 GTI exhaust manifold i can use it here in OZ?(Adelaide)

Even though it has no CAT.

Can some one recommend any other bits from the UK GTI would be worth getting for my OZ MK2 GTI?

Might get myself a shopping list going for my friend who is on his way over with a container.

Supposed to have house stuff but i am sure he could squeeze some parts in for me.

Rob

[Spyda]

AGG is common Spyda, late model Golf 3s.
The 3A is the 2L Audi engine and is the shortblock 2L. Not very common

Ah ok, my bad. I knew it was somthing like that though.



I have never had clearance problems putting 2Ls into Mk2s.
Mk1s will hit on the bonnet, but Mk2 is sweet.
Even the ABF in my Mk2 was fine.

The Golf 3 Downpipe and manifold is a good upgrade for an Aussie Mk2 as it is freer flowing. It will hit on the subframe and will need a small bit chopped out, unless you are running a taller 2L engine.

The UK GTIs were 110Hp and the Aussie ones are 90Hp. the differences are manifold, cam and valves and ecu.
Aussie intake valves are 32mm UK ones are 38 and South African ones are 40!

I looked up info on the digifart ecu and could find how UK digi2 ones where different to ausi digi2's...or any other digi2 ecu for that matter.

Is the UK head EV? and whats the South African just out of interest?

It seems that alot of power is lost in the difference in the heads. I know that along with other small bold up mods, a worked EV head with intake and exhaust valve size increase to 38/40 makes about 150 at the fly.

[GOLFBALLS]

I've seen EV's from the UK and South Africa. Do they still have different sized intake valves even though the engine code is the same?

The EV is often referred to as the 'big valve' 1.8 head.

Also in regards to having the cat, it depends on the year of your car. I think if it's post 1988 it needs to (legally) have one??

I've got another question while i'm hijacking...:rolleyes: My old grey GTI (UK EV) had an Audi 1.9 bottom end according to the old rebuild receipts. Which block is that??? It went great!

Cheers,
Wade

[ozgti]

I've seen EV's from the UK and South Africa. Do they still have different sized intake valves even though the engine code is the same?

The EV is often referred to as the 'big valve' 1.8 head.

Also in regards to having the cat, it depends on the year of your car. I think if it's post 1988 it needs to (legally) have one??

I've got another question while i'm hijacking...:rolleyes: My old grey GTI (UK EV) had an Audi 1.9 bottom end according to the old rebuild receipts. Which block is that??? It went great!

Cheers,
Wade


Isn't the Audi a 2E block?

The cat isn't in the fanimold, it's further down stream (well it is in the UK!)

[Golf Loon]

EVs in Australia have the small valves. Jap Spec Engines for Aussie emmissions.

I have put the heads next to each other with a UK import engine and the UK ones are bigger.

The ECUs are also definately different, the UK ones throw more fuel in.
No benefit on an Aussie car without headwork.

1.9 Audi Engine is a SD engine code.

Early Audi 2L is a 3A. The 2E engine is a tall block found in early Golf 3s and SEAT GTIs and is too tall for an Audi.

[jayjay]

i thought aussie inlet valves were 35 or 36mm

but yeah, a good cheap quick 8v i would have would entail 3A block, south african head, mk3 twin downpipe, and CIS-E.

2L shortblocks are heaps punchier. :)

[dubstar]

i thought aussie inlet valves were 35 or 36mm

but yeah, a good cheap quick 8v i would have would entail 3A block, south african head, mk3 twin downpipe, and CIS-E.

2L shortblocks are heaps punchier. :)

But finding one with low clicks is going to be hard. The AGG engines are only 10 years old, where as the 3A are now 20-25years old.

[benough]

thanks for the replies guys and the good ideas..........

as I said, I'm new to Mk.2's so are still a bit green.

There seems to be many very experienced people on this Forum!

Sounds like a Mk. 3 manifold and twin down pipes and a new exhaust is a recommended and worthwhile 'cheap' modification to make to an Aussie Mk.2.
(would it be possible to bend the down-pipes slightly rather than cut the sub-frame?)

Any idea where to source a 2nd hand Mk.3 manifold? I guess the down-pipes would have to be 'factory'?

Cheers!

Rossco

Hey Rosco.

I did this on my Aus spec GTI and it makes a big difference. If you aren't changing the block they you don't have to bend or cut anything. You will need an exhaust guy to make up a plate to match the downpipe to the cat but that cost me $40.

Give Brian at GTI Imports a call, he is in Sydney though.

[Rossco_111]

Thanks Ben................. all the chat has been very interesting but it is great to get an answer to my original question. Do you think that Brian could assist with a Mk.3 manifold and down-pipes?

Rossco

[Golf Loon]

We sell Mk3 Manifolds and Downpipes here for $200 and offer prompt mail order delivery.

[joshyd-mk2gti]

thinking about doing this mod. does the mk3 manifold/downpipe have a spot for an oxygen sensor or is it a matter of welding in a bung?

[VwJunkie]

thinking about doing this mod. does the mk3 manifold/downpipe have a spot for an oxygen sensor or is it a matter of welding in a bung?

No it doesnt because the sensor was in the cat itself so you need a bung on the downpipe :)

[joshyd-mk2gti]

thought that might have been the case. pretty sure my current oxygen sensor is shot so I better replace that.

[NeuSpeedGTI]

So based on the info above.. What ECU is an Aus Spec, 1.8 8V MK2 GTI likely to have???

K-Jet? Digifant? Digi2??

[benough]

Digifant 2

[NeuSpeedGTI]

Thanks benough..I thought as much, but my mechanic told me it was K-jet last time I took it down... is there anyway I can double check? ie AFM setup or ECU loom??

[benough]

Put up a pic of what's under the bonnet!

K-Jet will have the silver braided hoses going from a weird horseshoe shaped thing on the airbox.

Digi will be neat all the way through and have injectors on the intake manifold under the throttle body.

[jayjay]

neuspeedgti,

if your car is 91, has big bumpers and no front quarterlight windows, i'm almost certain it's digifant.

digifant has a MAF sensor and looks like this
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/02/3-4.jpg

k-jet looks like a 4-legged spider doing the hankypanky with your engine
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3378/1157ve8.jpg

[NeuSpeedGTI]

Jayjay..

Thanks mate.. its most definately a digifant!!

[robiom]

Hi Rossco,

I have just purchased and fitted one of these for less than $300 AUD.

85-98 VW Golf GTI Jetta 1.8L 2.0L MK Exhaust Header OBX: eBay Motors (item 160431433159 end time Jun-04-10 09:21:13 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160431433159)

From: Racing Parts Depot ( 9648 )

It fits like a glove - just have to get a connection tomorrow from Header pipe to Cat (as the connection is about 7mm larger) !

Cant wait to drive it. Ill drop you some feedback on the differance it makes.:banana:

Rob

[Rossco_111]

Thanks Rob, look forward to what you think

[robiom]

Rossco,

Job completed - makes a huge differance - much closer to a uk spec GTI now.

Loads more mid range power - car revs out consistently now - the whole car is much smoother too. Well worth the $330 it cost all up (fitted it myself)

The header pipe i was sent had a 50mm connection - my car had a 45mm joint to the cat...there is also a 55mm i beleive.
something to be wary of to make life easier !

[8v ggggti]

where did you get the headers from america or the uk?