Dynamic / Adaptive chassis control (DCC / ACC)

[Kwoka]

I'm planning to get GTI soon once it has been released and everything is comfirmed i'll probably head to the dealers and check it out. I don't really mind waiting a few months to get the specs that i want which will be Xenons, MDI and possibly 18" wheels. I was thinking of getting ACC but i'm just wondering if it is worth it? Does it make the car drive/ride better? Any opinions?

[Corey_R]

There are a few threads on this topic already.

The conclusion is always the same. Everyone's butt is different, so it will only matter what you think. Just like everyone's ears are different so opinions on whether the stereo upgrade is worth it will range from "you're an idiot if you do upgrade" to "you're an idiot if you don't upgrade".

The only thing which will matter is that you go test drive a car with 18" wheels and ACC, and then another with 18" wheels and without ACC. Preferably at the same dealer so you can drive along the same roads.

[windmagnet]

Kwoka,

I pre-ordered a GTI with ACC and 18" wheels. Thought this would be the best of both worlds. Unfortunately only one GTI in first shipment to Adelaide has ACC and that is a fully loaded one which would cost well over $60k. Only one car in first shipment with 18" wheels (which is mine).

The UK GTI Mk 6 forum has some posts on this but it is a bit like the manual vs DSG debate. As Coreying says, you will have to work it out yourself.

Depends where you are but you might be waiting a while before you can test two GTI's with ACC but different wheels. On the Mk V, I felt there was a very noticeable difference in ride comfort between GTI on standard 17" wheels and a Pirelli on 18" wheels. However, the R32 (heavier) I drove on 18" wheels had excellent ride. Based on this, I have opted for 18" wheels without ACC rather than a long wait.

Maybe you could at least get some feel for the difference between the settings on the ACC if you test drive another model Golf with ACC. However, I would not rely on this to tell how it will feel on the GTI.

[ricksterrr]

There are a few threads on this topic already.

The conclusion is always the same. Everyone's butt is different, so it will only matter what you think. Just like everyone's ears are different so opinions on whether the stereo upgrade is worth it will range from "you're an idiot if you do upgrade" to "you're an idiot if you don't upgrade".

The only thing which will matter is that you go test drive a car with 18" wheels and ACC, and then another with 18" wheels and without ACC. Preferably at the same dealer so you can drive along the same roads.

I guess there is also a question mark over the durability of the system since it's relatively new technology. Good news is that I haven't read any horror stories about ACC breaking on the UK Scirroccos and they've had it as standard for a while.

If you're going to sell the car before the warranty period ends, then it doesn't really matter.

But yes, the best way is to compare the two yourself since it's very subjective.

[Kwoka]

Thanks for the quick replies. I hope that i am lucky enough to test drive 2 different models.

[noowve]

Hi All

I am looking to place a deposit for the GTI MK6 next year. What i am contemplating to do though is whether to spend the $1500 in putting in an Adaptive Chassis Control or not. I was told that it is a waste of money but when i test drove the car a couple of weeks ago, i felt that the steering was heavier when i set the ACC in Sports mode or it's just a a psychological?

I have not test drove the car without it though. So if anyone out there has test drove the GTI Mk6 without the Adaptive Chassis Control, let me know what you think?

Any advice would be helpful.

Regards
William

[Nath]

Hi All

I am looking to place a deposit for the GTI MK6 next year. What i am contemplating to do though is whether to spend the $1500 in putting in an Adaptive Chassis Control or not. I was told that it is a waste of money but when i test drove the car a couple of weeks ago, i felt that the steering was heavier when i set the ACC in Sports mode or it's just a a psychological?

I have not test drove the car without it though. So if anyone out there has test drove the GTI Mk6 without the Adaptive Chassis Control, let me know what you think?

Any advice would be helpful.

Regards
William

I think you'll find it's more of a personal choice with the ACC, some people say it's awesome, others dont notice the difference, so I guess drive the car yourself in normal and then play with the ACC to see if you like it.

[elisiX]

I too was told it's nothing that special by the dealer who test drove an MK6 equipped with ACC and one without.

I personally dont plan on tracking my car either but if I did, i'd be going for a coil over/wheel setup before worrying about ACC.

[JasonP]

I have a Mk6 Sports Pack with ACC, & one without ACC.

I definitely notice the difference, & I recommend you tick that option.

If I had my chance again, I would have had ACC on both.

Just my opinion....

[elisiX]

Can you please elaborate.

What is the difference?

Is it a worthwhile option for street driving?

Would it mostly benefit those driving on the edge (track)?

etc. :)

[JasonP]

I have a 118TSI with ACC.
For the most part, I run it in Comfort mode, due to the crap roads in Brisbane.
Even though that's the softest setting, it's still not too bad, & absorbs the potholes very well.
The Normal setting is a good compromise, but I have a few favourite twisty roads, where selecting Sport on the DSG, & Sport on the ACC, transforms the car.

My other one, is a 103TDI with Sports Pack, but no ACC.
Overall, it's a good compromise between ride & handling, very similar to the VE SS I had previously, but with a slightly more comfortable ride.

In summary though, the ACC car is sharper overall, when you want it to be.
The Sport setting on the ACC, also quickens the steering ratio, & you have the option to wind it back to a more comfortable setting for day to day driving.
Quicker steering & sharp handling mean nothing when you're stuck in gridlock, rarely even approaching 60kph.

When you do find a good set of corners that can be enjoyed, you can select either Normal or Sport, & have a go.

I have driven a Mk6 GTI with 18s, but without ACC.
Handling was great, but for me, the 18s made the ride a little too choppy.

For a GTI (personally), I'd go for either a standard setup on 17s, or option ACC for 18s.

That's just me, because I've owned & driven many cars with "Sports" suspensions, & have tired of having a bone-jarring ride all the time, only offset by the occasional blast through some twisty bits.
With the ACC, I can have my cake, & eat it too.

If you can change your order to add ACC, then I'd do so. Judging by your signature, you have a pretty good spec GTI coming. I reckon ACC would finish it off nicely.

My 118TSI was built on April 2, & was delivered on June 29, so if your car is due in March 2010, you'd have to act quickly to make any build changes, as ACC is a Factory Only option.

You've got a very nice car on the way..... Not a cheap one, either.... :-)

[elisiX]

Thanks for your response. Some great first hand advice that's not from a 'review'.

When test driving the car, I didn't notice any harshness in the ride but then again I was running 17" wheels. I will have to try and hunt down a demo in Sydney who has a car optioned with the 18" for a comparison. In my 2006 TTQ, I had H&R Coil overs with 19" wheels. The ride was quite harsh even on a softer manual setting but I also had the car setup with some heavy camber for handling. I'd like to avoid the GTI being this harsh if possible.

I expect that I will change my wheels to something from BBS (not sure which model yet) and now I am a little concerned that i've not selected ACC. I'd probably have to make up my mind by Tuesday to make any changes but I dont really want to be adding any more expensive options which I dont think will get any return in the long run.

[JasonP]

I reckon with the price & spec of your car, the extra $$$ for ACC will be neither here nor there.

At this sort of money, it's only a smallish amount of money to get what exactly you want.

In my opinion, the Sport setting on the ACC is sharper overall than the standard setting on the Non-Acc, & the adjustability is an added bonus.

For a small amount of extra $$$, I think it's worth it.

Enjoy the car in March!

[sgg110]

Thanks for your response. Some great first hand advice that's not from a 'review'.

I will have to try and hunt down a demo in Sydney who has a car optioned with the 18" for a comparison.

Elisix, would be very interested in your thoughts after getting a test in a demo with 18" as I am debating about going for the larger wheels without ACC. I like the look but I am concerned with the hashness of ride.

[noowve]

Hi All

thanks for the feedback.. i to didn't notice a huge difference without the ACC. so it's really a matter of choice at the end of the day. I am leaning towards not having the option put in and will replace with a Xenon headlamp.. that's my gut feeling..

Also guys, what are your thoughts about paint colour? i am going for the white and it's not a metallic paint colour.. Does this make a difference whether it's mettalic versus non metallic?

William

[gerhard]

I'd drop the Park Assist and go for the ACC.

You go forwards through corners far more often than you reverse park.....

[elisiX]

lol.. good point.

The Park Assist came into it when I complained (within my 24hr cooling off period) that they hadn't given me a good enough deal.

They basically said either take $1600 off the car or choose another option. The Mrs liked the sound of Park Assist so I chose that.

If the order is finalized I could always change it to ACC but I would think that PA will be a much more desirable option down the line come resale.

You are right though, I am driving the car much more often than parking it and I am sure someone will say that I should worry about resale either.

[niulf]

ACC is definitely noticeable on GTI. Especially on sport mode. It firms up the suspension and makes the throttle more responsible. It's brilliant when we tested on VW's track day. But when I tested it on normal roads later, the sport mode was too firm, I personally feel very uncomfortable on Sydney's roads. When on Normal mode, there is not much different to normal GTI. That's why I did not put ACC on my option list when I ordered my GTI.

[elisiX]

Looks like PA is staying. :)

Thanks niulf.

[gtimal]

Hi
My main reason going for the Detroits is for looks plus their OEM supplied .
Reading a couple of articles about the ACC and 18's it looks like it can offer the ride of the 17's but the option of a tighter ride when asked .

Any 18"s & ACC owners out there .

Cheers

[Mk6 GTI]

Hi
My main reason going for the Detroits is for looks plus their OEM supplied .
Reading a couple of articles about the ACC and 18's it looks like it can offer the ride of the 17's but the option of a tighter ride when asked .

Any 18"s & ACC owners out there .

Cheers

I get mine in March! I will let you know..

[elisiX]

There's a few threads discussing this already mate. Some reviews say the ACC is too harsh for street driving, others praise it. Everyone has an opinion on them.

[trueman]

Let you know in April !!

[MurphyTheElf]

I have ACC and the 18's and neither I nor my missus have any problems. I'm quite happy to cruise around in Sport mode and only really switch it to Comfort in car parks and, as I mentioned in a previous post, on gravel roads. I've had the car in Sport mode full of passengers and they haven't really complained, although Comfort is definitely better for that.

The things I notice in Sport mode is the tighter steering and suspension. Speed bumps are soaked up quite nicely in Comfort, while you get a jolt in Sport. Definitely noticeable.

I never use Normal (what's the point?) so I can't really give a quantitative opinion on Normal vs either of the ACC modes.

[elisiX]

Mate how long does it take to adjust between each setting?

Actually, how does the technology work? Is it like Koni FSD shocks?

[booya]

I'm getting 18s without ACC. No idea whether I'll find the ride too harsh. Did not have luxury of testing one with 18s when put in order. Found the 17s firm but tolerable, been "told" the 18s don't make that much of difference, guess even if it made the ride tough I don't intend to use it on rough roads or for long distance anyway; only for to and from work and occasional leisure drive on weekends.....Will let you know in 1-2 months how it goes.

[MurphyTheElf]

Mate how long does it take to adjust between each setting?

Actually, how does the technology work? Is it like Koni FSD shocks?

It's a button above the gear shifter. However long it takes to push a button.

Putting it simply, sensors and accelerometers send feedback about the road and driving conditions to a processor that then sends commands to the dampers, springs, steering, engine management, etc, that changes the behaviour of the car based on the chosen setting. I'm not an expert, so you may want to Google more detailed info.

[GTi Crow]

It's a button above the gear shifter. However long it takes to push a button.

Thanks for the feedback. I have ordered 18's with ACC - not sure when arriving yet as only set it up last weekend. - so I assume April or later. It will be a two-way thing - my wife turning it to comfort, me putting it in sport. Reason I got rid of a WRX was the wife hated the hard drive, but she actually really liked the Mk5 GTI drive we had for the last 4 years.

[Christopher]

I'm sure that you'll be more than satisfied with the purchase.
With the delivery, it's been mentioned else where that the first of the 2010 builds are set to arrive around end of April / start of May.

[Corey_R]

I intend to get ACC on my Golf R with the 19" Talladega rims :D

[windmagnet]

I tried to get a car with 18s and ACC but settled for one with 18s and without ACC.

So far (around 2000 kms) over all sorts of roads, the ride has not troubled me. It is a bit rough over broken road sections but so is our Subaru Liberty riding on smaller wheels.

Get the 18s for sure. They look much better and if you really don't like the ride, I am sure you will have no trouble swapping for the 17s

[gtimal]

Hi all
I'm going to go with the ACC ,it will suit where I live when those !@#$ing tractors drop mud on the road its like mini speed humps some times .
A Passat or Amarok would suit where I live better but its time to have some fun again .

Now what to do with the leather option .

Cheers

Mal

[Hail]

I tried to get a car with 18s and ACC but settled for one with 18s and without ACC.

So far (around 2000 kms) over all sorts of roads, the ride has not troubled me. It is a bit rough over broken road sections but so is our Subaru Liberty riding on smaller wheels.

Get the 18s for sure. They look much better and if you really don't like the ride, I am sure you will have no trouble swapping for the 17s

I've also got 18's without ACC and I think it rides quite well, its a stiff ride but never uncomfortable.

[Dubya]

What is the relative cost of rubber for the 18s compared with the 17s?

Are the 18s wider (and so snow chain use a relevant consideration)?

[gtimal]

What is the relative cost of rubber for the 18s compared with the 17s?

Are the 18s wider (and so snow chain use a relevant consideration)?

Looking at the spec's the 18" tyres are the same width but go from a 45 to a 40 profile .

As far as cost go that will depend if the 225x45x17 & 225x40x18 are odd sizes in the market ,where a 225x45x18 could be more common .

Cheers

[Corey_R]

What is the relative cost of rubber for the 18s compared with the 17s?

Are the 18s wider (and so snow chain use a relevant consideration)?

The 18's from the factory have 225/40 as stated above, however, if you're purchasing replacement tyres, 235/40's also work great and get a little extra width.

As for costs, from tirerack in the USA:
Continental ContiSportContact 2 - 225/45ZR17 91W = US$179
Continental ContiSportContact 2 - 225/40ZR18 92Y = US$204
Continental ContiSportContact 2 - 235/40ZR18 95Y = US$238

Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric - 225/45ZR17 94Y = US$135
Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric - 225/40R18 92Y = US$180
Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric - 235/40R18 95Y = US$213

As for snow chains... I'm not sure that 18" 40 profile tyres are suitable for the fitment of snow chains.

[elisiX]

Great pricing on a couple really nice tyres.

[Mk6 GTI]

Hi All!

This may have been covered before.. but what tyres will i be getting on my detroit 18' when i get the car in March? And are they any good?

Cheers!

[elisiX]

I may be wrong here, but I think there have been 2-3 different tyres being used.

[Corey_R]

Hi All!

This may have been covered before.. but what tyres will i be getting on my detroit 18' when i get the car in March? And are they any good?

Cheers!

It could be any of several tyres. Continental, Bridgestone, maybe others, depending on stock at the factory at the time. They are generally considered to be good tyres no matter which option you get, although some people have different opinions on each of them.

At the moment the hands down 'best tyre' based on several motor publications seems to be the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric - and as you can see from above, they have awesome prices on that from Tirerack.com

[Mk6 GTI]

It could be any of several tyres. Continental, Bridgestone, maybe others, depending on stock at the factory at the time. They are generally considered to be good tyres no matter which option you get, although some people have different opinions on each of them.

At the moment the hands down 'best tyre' based on several motor publications seems to be the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric - and as you can see from above, they have awesome prices on that from Tirerack.com

Do they fit Goodyrs from the factory?

[elisiX]

I dont believe they're fitting the Goodyear F1's.

[Mk6 GTI]

I dont believe they're fitting the Goodyear F1's.

hehe yeah i guess they wouldnt be..

One of the less obvious areas to cut costs!

[MurphyTheElf]

Mine came with Bridgestone Potenza.

[Christopher]

My dealer also said the same... More than likely to come with Bridgestone's fitted..

[Corey_R]

hehe yeah i guess they wouldnt be..

One of the less obvious areas to cut costs!

It's got nothing to do with costs (as you can see, in high volume, the Goodyear are cheaper than the Conti's anyway). It has to do with the contracts that a car manufactuer has with tyre manufacturers. For Volkswagen that's primarily Continental and Bridgestone, both of which make good tyres.

It's just that right now, the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric is the best. Could be something else soon :)

[Mk6 GTI]

It's got nothing to do with costs (as you can see, in high volume, the Goodyear are cheaper than the Conti's anyway). It has to do with the contracts that a car manufactuer has with tyre manufacturers. For Volkswagen that's primarily Continental and Bridgestone, both of which make good tyres.

It's just that right now, the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric is the best. Could be something else soon :)

cool, fair enough!

[gtimal]

Hi
Well I placed the order today for our mk6 GTi .looking forward to when its up our drive way :cool:.

Cheers

[G-rig]

I dont believe they're fitting the Goodyear F1's.

As far as i know, GY F1 asymmetrical aren't made/used for OEM tyre, so doubt they would fit it (score if they do).

[gtimal]

Mine came with Bridgestone Potenza.

Hi M
Which model Potenza are they .I have the RE001 fitted on my current car and they don't suffer from scolloping like the old G3's .

Cheers

[MurphyTheElf]

Hi M
Which model Potenza are they .I have the RE001 fitted on my current car and they don't suffer from scolloping like the old G3's .

Cheers

They are RE050A.

[Kirium]

They are RE050A.

Thank God. The RE001's on my MkV are garbage in the dry and dangerous in the wet. Previously had Yokohama Advan Sport V103 and CSC2s, and I've heard the RE050A is up there with those 2 performance-wise.

[astro]

could you have a car with acc an coilovers? or acc is instead of coilovers?

Would i be better off not getting ACC an just buy a decent set of coilovers?

[elisiX]

Well coilovers essentially replace your shocks and springs...

And yes I would just go for coilovers if you plan on adding aftermarket wheels and dropping a little (or a lot).

However if you plan to keep stock wheels, option ACC.

[alphabeatsco]

im purchasing a brand new golf.
im getting the 18 inch detroits.
should i get the ACC with the car or should i purchase coilovers later on if i want stiffer dampers.

the cost of ACC is almost same price as coilovers.

[Tim]

depends.
ACC I would think is for those people that dont want to compromise on daily comfort. Other than that a set of coilovers will allow you to pick a rideheight/damper setting that suits your usage.

For my personal taste id go with a good set of coilovers. But then i dont think its a decision that anyone else can make for you because it has to suit your set of requirements

[noone]

Depends if having the ACC on Sports mode is firm enough for you.

VW's tend to have a soft ride, so I'd think if you want track handling, you need track suspension.

[alphabeatsco]

well if i install ACC now, can i install coilovers later on? or there's gonna be alot of sensors dangling around?

[elisiX]

I went with the 18's and no ACC because I expect to change my suspension to a coil over setup down the track (not for the track).

I think if you want the car stock ride height and wont change your wheels (but choose the optional 18's), you should pick up the ACC.

[Corey_R]

well if i install ACC now, can i install coilovers later on? or there's gonna be alot of sensors dangling around?

This is a question I've yet to see anyone answer on these forums. I'm not sure that anyone here has bought a car with ACC on it and tried this.

But I think that as Tim mentioned, it depends on YOU.

The ACC allows you to press 'sport' for when you want that firm suspension and handling, and press 'comfort' for when you're on crappy roads or in a car park with 50,000 speed humps between you and the exit etc.

Good coilovers are going to allow you to get better handling and fine tune the car the way you want. They're adjustable, but not DURING your drive. They would be far better on the track, and if you're a hoon, they'd be better on the road too ;)

But lets face it, good coilovers are going to cost you far more than the $1500 of ACC. From what I can see the Sachs Coilovers for the GTI are about RRP $3000 plus installation. KW Variant 3 coilovers are likely to be even more. (Kryten001 might be able to post here how much he paid for them to be installed on his Pirelli)

[noone]

But lets face it, good coilovers are going to cost you far more than the $1500 of ACC. From what I can see the Sachs Coilovers for the GTI are about RRP $3000 plus installation. KW Variant 3 coilovers are likely to be even more. (Kryten001 might be able to post here how much he paid for them to be installed on his Pirelli)

If you import from the UK or US, should be considerably less (but then there are potentially warranty issues). Looks like KW V1's are selling in the UK for about 750 pounds. should be less than $2K landed.

[GoLfMan]

you dont have to get V3's for a good quality coilover!

V1, V2 or even Weitec's are goo value!!!

Dont forget H&R which come in under $2k and have a real nice ride quality too :)

I'd wait for coilovers, for me the ACC is just a gimmick..

[Glennb]

Do we have any information on what ACC is actually doing to the existing setup?
I'm thinking if ACC is just electronics applied to the stock suspension, or if ticking the ACC box gets you different suspension to the stock cars?

Also comes up as an issue if i wanted to lower a Tiguan that has ACC. Can it be done?

[elisiX]

I've just come off the phone with my dealer after asking him about this. He said to me that he had not had anyone ask him the question before (ie; What happens if you change to coil overs but have ACC optioned?). However what he did say was that when you are submitting an order for the GTI, there is a different code/selection for ACC for both 17" and 18" wheels. And in his opinion, if you select ACC and switch to coils, you will render the system useless as the technology uses the shocks to make adjustments. The way it does this is by limiting the amount of oil available to the shocks (less oil means firmer compression?). I didn't investigate any further beyond this but I cannot see the ACC working if coils are fitted. Perhaps if you just change your springs for a different ride it will work as the shocks are not necessarily replaced, but it might throw the system out as it will be set to work to certain settings. Hence the reason why there are options when ordering for a 17" setup vs an 18" setup based on ride height etc.

[Corey_R]

There ARE obviously other aftermarket suspension systems which allow this, variable oil pressure or magnetic charge etc but they'd be super expensive

[elisiX]

I remember when I was buying the car and I was given a basic explanation of how it works (I guess it was similar to the explanation I gave in my last post), and I compared them to KONI FSD shocks..

but I think I was told it's different to that.

[rosslm]

I now have my 103TDI Sports Pack + ACC done exactly 110km what a car, it's easy to see why Golf VI has taken awards world wide. Getting back to ACC at $1000.00 with the Sports Pack it's worth getting not only the 3 settings but in sports mode it's integrated with the steering as well plus it's dynamic so it's adjusting to the conditions continuously in all modes, so it's not just Comfort, Normal and Sport it is variable within each mode. I'll give you more feedback in a few weeks. As an aside 2 months exactly from being loaded on the boat to my pickup, Not to Bad :P

[tinto]

Some tein coilovers are compatible with edfc (electronic damping force control) which allows in-car changes to damping as you drive.
You can get this for around the same price as a set of kw v3.

More fractional adjustment than acc, but not necessarily oem quality.
A guy on golfmkv has these on his mk5 gti, only a matter of time until they surface for the mk6.

[midlifecrisis]

I now have my 103TDI Sports Pack + ACC done exactly 110km what a car, it's easy to see why Golf VI has taken awards world wide. Getting back to ACC at $1000.00 with the Sports Pack it's worth getting not only the 3 settings but in sports mode it's integrated with the steering as well plus it's dynamic so it's adjusting to the conditions continuously in all modes, so it's not just Comfort, Normal and Sport it is variable within each mode. I'll give you more feedback in a few weeks. As an aside 2 months exactly from being loaded on the boat to my pickup, Not to Bad :P

I am seriously thinking about the sports pack + ACC. I want comfort for the family but the option for better suspension for highways etc I really want an idea of how wheel the Comfort modes takes out speedbumps, pot holes, and off road. And how well the sports mode stops body roll. Anything you can post rosslm would be much appreciated.

[iBoost]

I chose not to go with ACC as I may lower the car down the track and render the system useless.

I guess it depends on what you are used to. For me, I've had S15s, 3 MPS' etc all lowered, so the Golf GTI is already pretty comfy compared to those.

[rosslm]

I am seriously thinking about the sports pack + ACC. I want comfort for the family but the option for better suspension for highways etc I really want an idea of how wheel the Comfort modes takes out speedbumps, pot holes, and off road. And how well the sports mode stops body roll. Anything you can post rosslm would be much appreciated.

Just a quick update, I've only done 200km now and with ACC body roll is virtual nil in all modes even Comfort which is pretty soft in shock absorbing and is still flat around corners. I am sure the system compensates for body roll any way that's all I can report so far. Definitely $1000.00 worth spending. Also $1800.00 for Dynaudio RDC510 is worth getting tremendous clarity and with MDI for $270 just plug in your MP3 with 40CDs in 4GB memory you won't be short of entertainment. 103TDI smooth and effortless, what a ripper.

[Allegiance]

Hi Guys,

Like to get your opinion if the ACC option for the GTI is worth it?

Thanks

[elisiX]

Do a search mate. Been discussed plenty.

[Brendan_A]

I would have thought the GTI would be plenty stiff enough with its ride. The ACC is only going to make it ride even harder and our Aussie roads aren't the best. The comfy setting could be good. Its up to you mate how you spend your money.

[Corey_R]

As elisiX has already said, there are so many threads already discussing this exact topic I can't be bothered even searching for them as the list would be too long....

The general consensus is this:
Go drive one with ACC and one without ACC and make up the mind of what is right for YOU - as everyone has a different opinion of what is 'hard' and what is 'comfortable'.

[Allegiance]

I would have thought the GTI would be plenty stiff enough with its ride. The ACC is only going to make it ride even harder and our Aussie roads aren't the best. The comfy setting could be good. Its up to you mate how you spend your money.

Actually I was hoping ACC on the comfort setting would help make the ride a bit softer. The car will mainly be used by my girlfriend and she thought it was quite rough when we drove one the other day.

[Corey_R]

If the girlfriend thought the GTI was quite rough, and she is the intended driver, can I ask why you're looking at a GTI then?

The GTI, as far as 'hot hatches' goes, is known to be rather compliant. So maybe getting something not quite so 'hot', like a 118TSI would be a better option? Cheaper, has a decent amount of power, and more compliant ride.

[cktsi]

Try one with ACCC and make sure the demo car (and the one you will buy) has the standard 17" rims than the 18" if comfort is a higher priority.

If you still don't like it, then the GTI may not be for you and you might want to consider the 118TSI, but "chip" the ECU to give you the GTI like performance without the harsh ride. It will be more cost effective and give you the comfort.

I found ACCC comfort ride more comfy than the stock comfortline in my car - but the ride in my car doesn't bother me as I prefer to err on the side of handling.

[cktsi]

I can I ask why you're looking at a GTI then?


Check out the timestamp! Think alike and at the same time :-P

[Allegiance]

If the girlfriend thought the GTI was quite rough, and she is the intended driver, can I ask why you're looking at a GTI then?

The GTI, as far as 'hot hatches' goes, is known to be rather compliant. So maybe getting something not quite so 'hot', like a 118TSI would be a better option? Cheaper, has a decent amount of power, and more compliant ride.

Well after having a NA Subaru Impreza for a few years, we am looking for something more powerful. I personally had no problem with the ride of it, and was actually quite impressed with the car as a whole.


If you still don't like it, then the GTI may not be for you and you might want to consider the 118TSI, but "chip" the ECU to give you the GTI like performance without the harsh ride. It will be more cost effective and give you the comfort.

Can I expect GTI like performance from a stage 1 ECU? How does this go with the warranty?

[elisiX]

Yup the 118 will get up there (close enough) with the Stage1 APR tune.

The warranty wont be an issue.

[prise]

Are you talking about the VW warranty? I would have thought you would have no chance getting them to pay for any power train repairs if the car has been chipped.

[elisiX]

If there is not a direct issue resulting from the tune, it most likely will not be a problem with warranty. This also has been done to death so please guys do a search and you will learn all about the APR tune and peoples (100's of people) experience with APR over the last 5+ years. I have had APR on my Audi and i've never had an issue. Nor have I ever heard of anyone having an issue with warranty (but I may have simply not heard of a horror story out there).

[prise]

VW must be more tolerant than Mazda or Subaru (as a previous 99WRX and 2006 6MPS owner having read the experiences of respective forum members) as the VW warranty conditions are unambiguous when it comes to mods.

I guess it depends on the nature of the failure - if for example you had a mechanical failure of a DSG7 gearbox or differential and a chipped engine that exceeded the maximum torque rating of the gearbox I wouldn't fancy the odds.

Some subaru dealers were known to monitor the WRX forums and identify owners who took the car in for warranty work after after removing mods.

[Super]

Hi guys,

I’m currently in the process of narrowing down options on a new Golf GTI, and was looking for people’s experience using adaptive chassis control. One of the original things that attracted me to the Golf is the tech, and so I had always thought I’d add ACC as an option..

The salesperson I spoke to mentioned that because the Golf is a relatively light car, adding ACC won’t make a substantial difference to comfort/sportiness… and that its more applicable if I were to drive long distances. They didn’t have any demonstrators with ACC to test drive so I couldnt find out for myself unfortunately.

So, does anyone have any real world experience with ACC? Do the different modes make a reasonable difference to the comfort or handling? The suspension on the GTI I drove did seem to be fairly stiff (but not to the point where it was uncomfortable). Mind you, Sydney roads aren’t the greatest..

Any comments are appreciated!

[Maverick]

Hi guys,

I’m currently in the process of narrowing down options on a new Golf GTI, and was looking for people’s experience using adaptive chassis control. One of the original things that attracted me to the Golf is the tech, and so I had always thought I’d add ACC as an option..

The salesperson I spoke to mentioned that because the Golf is a relatively light car, adding ACC won’t make a substantial difference to comfort/sportiness… and that its more applicable if I were to drive long distances. They didn’t have any demonstrators with ACC to test drive so I couldnt find out for myself unfortunately.

So, does anyone have any real world experience with ACC? Do the different modes make a reasonable difference to the comfort or handling? The suspension on the GTI I drove did seem to be fairly stiff (but not to the point where it was uncomfortable). Mind you, Sydney roads aren’t the greatest..

Any comments are appreciated!

Search is your friend, plenty of discussion on this topic and feedback from owners.

[AdamD]

There are a few threads on this already. The general consensus is that it's down to personal preference, but your choice of wheel size plays a part. If you plan on buying or switching to 18s, and/or are fussy with ride quality, it may be worthwhile.

See these threads for a start:
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=39098
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=35110
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=39541

Further to this, I haven't had experience of the ACC on a GTI, but I have on a Passat CC. On the CC it was a great feature and a worthy inclusion in the standard kit. I didn't bother adding it to my GTI order, however, as the car is lighter, more focussed and has a very competent ride/handling compromise to begin with. My 2c.

[Super]

Thanks for the links.


Search is your friend, plenty of discussion on this topic and feedback from owners.

Indeed it is - if only i had flipped to the second page of search results!

[WhiteJames]

The Mark 6 GTI rides a lot better than the Mark 5 GTI. It handles the curves with a flatter stance, has greater rebound & compression damping and spring rate is about spot on for comfort/sports driving. Slightly shaken, but not stirred they say.

I had a Manual GTI for half a day test drive around Sydney and it was a pleasure. At times, I felt I wanted a bit more compression & rebound rate in the dampers on some scarred sections of twisty roadway. This was in the city/metro area.

A second back to back comparison of the MANUAL GTI and DSG GTI in a section of the Royal National Park (RNP) confirmed my earlier suspicions & has me convinced that the DSG GTI has a slightly higher spring rate in the front springs. The DSG carries a bit more understeer, due to the higher front spring rate ... up the ante on the twisties and the DSG felt to be the more cohesive package than the MANUAL.

I'd say the MANUAL felt that bit too soft, which was great around town and for limiting turn in understeer, but the DSG handling is the pick, even if it requires a bit more effort around town due to the firmer springs.

I was planning on buying a MANAUL, but after the back to back review of the MANUAL and DSG on the morning of purchase, coupled with the softer front springs on the MANAUL and the electronic throttle intervention taking control away from the driver, I changed my mind and bought the DSG version of the GTI.

Yes ... the std suspension is fine on the Mark 6 GTI on 17" wheels, but there was times I would of liked greater suspension control & firmness.

In addition, the steering firms up with ACC and some reviews indicate that the throttle also sharpens up, but I cannot confirm this as some reviews are conflicting on the throttle change. The ACC automatically reverts to sport once a certain speed is reached. ACC apparently also monitors the roadways condition and ajusts accordingly, but again, this seems to be conflicting from what I have gleaned from magazine and net reviews.

After coming from a Mark 5 GTI with small H&R sway bars front and rear and KW V3 sport coilover suspension, I enjoyed the more comfortable ride of the std Mark 6 GTI.

I optioned up the ACC with my 18" Detriots on my GTI hopefull due mid May 2010. The ability to change the damping level, if only slightly due to the ligher weight of the GTI, is convenient.

The Golf R has 20% firmer springs than the GTI, despite being @130kg heavier, I'd be looking for ACC on the Golf R, esp after reading the UK reviews indicating a nuggety and at times crashy & bouncy ride (Similar to Audi S3, but a tad softer I'm told).

Cheers
WJ

[gtimal]

For what it cost just get it .

Cheers

[quakk]

still not completely sold on this?? sounds more gimmick than anythign to me..

[Corey_R]

And for some people it will be.

That is the thing - go back and read the other threads.
Some people swear by it. Some people don't see any different. And in those 'people', I'm only including people who have tried it - because if you haven't tried it then what does your opinion matter?!

Many people make the good point though, why spend $1500 when that can go into a quality after market suspension which will give you better performance. That is somewhat true. So purchasing ACC for the 'sport mode' does seem a little besides the point.
However, purchasing the ACC for the 'comfort mode' does make more sense - especially for those considering the R with 19" wheels (and by some accounts, even the standard 18" wheels due to the fact that the suspension and sway bars in the Golf R are 20% harder than the GTI).

[iBoost]

I have not tried it, as a demo car with it was not available to me.

However the standard car I drove on 17s seemed more than capable to me. Firm, but not overly so and cornering was flat and precise. I am not one who complains about harsh ride quality, so I've ordered mine with 18s and no ACC. I certainly don't find the GTI to be particular choppy or harsh over bumps, maybe some people need to harden up and realise it's a performance car. ;) j/k

Personally if I want more performance, then I'll install coil over suspension later on. $1500 will go a long way to a decent set of coil overs.

However if you value ride comfort, and this is a subjective thing, then ACC may be of value to you.

[Corey_R]

Yeah - I had my MKV GTI with 18" wheels and that obviously didn't have ACC. Although it could get a bit choppy on some of the roads in my local area, it was always a pleasure to drive within Brisbane, Goldcoast, Sydney (city) and major highways connecting all of them.

I drove the MK6 with ACC and did feel it made an appreciable difference, but not sure I would pick it if I was on a limited budget and had to sacrifice another option to get it.

But I would imaging that if the suspension and sway bars were 20% firmer, as they are in the R, that ACC could all of a sudden make a lot of sense... just saying :)

[quakk]

And for some people it will be.

That is the thing - go back and read the other threads.
Some people swear by it. Some people don't see any different. And in those 'people', I'm only including people who have tried it - because if you haven't tried it then what does your opinion matter?!

Many people make the good point though, why spend $1500 when that can go into a quality after market suspension which will give you better performance. That is somewhat true. So purchasing ACC for the 'sport mode' does seem a little besides the point.
However, purchasing the ACC for the 'comfort mode' does make more sense - especially for those considering the R with 19" wheels (and by some accounts, even the standard 18" wheels due to the fact that the suspension and sway bars in the Golf R are 20% harder than the GTI).


yeah i hear your point...ive read the other threads and its abit hard to judge going by them.. it still would be interesting to see if people with 17's and ACC notice any difference...

[Hoversloth]

yeah i hear your point...ive read the other threads and its abit hard to judge going by them.. it still would be interesting to see if people with 17's and ACC notice any difference...

I can help you out there. I've got ACC on my new car which I picked up last Friday. I've got 17's and I've done about 400km's so far. Yes, you still can tell the difference between sport and comfort however if I was given the option I wouldn't have paid the money for it. I might change my mind once I put some 19's on it but so far while it is a nice to have, I wouldn't be losing sleep if I didn't have it. (As opposed to not having Bi-xenons, which I would miss greatly if I didn't have them!)

[Corey_R]

I might change my mind once I put some 19's on it but so far while it is a nice to have, I wouldn't be losing sleep if I didn't have it. (As opposed to not having Bi-xenons, which I would miss greatly if I didn't have them!)

Thanks for the feedback Hoversloth. And yeah - that's what I was getting to - I'd much rather put that $1500 of ACC towards Bi-Xenons or something.

Please update us after you've got the 19" wheels on it! :D

[elisiX]

Wont there be an issue when fitting 19" wheels with ACC?

Reason being that the car will look like its a 4WD (literally - not AWD) and sit high unless you change the springs (shorter).

Do we know that its possible to change springs and not affect the ACC system?

[quakk]

nice work hoversloth.. thanks for the feedback!

[Corey_R]

Wont there be an issue when fitting 19" wheels with ACC?

Nah - the GTI's 17"x7.5" or 18"x7.5" wheels can be swapped out for third party or 18"x8.5" or 19"x8.5" wheels - with several companies making wheels specifically for the GTI/R32 in this size, such as Oettinger.
On the 18x8.5" width wheels you'd run 235/40R18 and on the 19's you'd run 235/35R19 tyres. You could run 245 width tyres, but then there are reports of rubbing towards full lock etc.

Effectively the rolling circumference difference between the 225/45R17 and 235/35R19 is only 2%

Several of Harding Performance's GTI's have run these 19" Oettinger wheels over the years....

[elisiX]

So the car wont 'look' like its riding really high if you go from 17" to 19" and not change to lowered springs?

[noone]

Normally you would lower the tyre profile when changing the rim size so the rolling diameter does not change (or only by a few %).

Bigger wheels look cool, but less tyre profile means the 1st point of suspension (the air in the tyre) is reduced, making the ride often rougher. If the new rims weigh more, the unsprung weight can change the handling, normally in a negative way, but depends on the rest of the suspension setup.

Are we talking about something different here?

[Sute]

+ 1.

I have the ACC and the 18" combination. Although it will make Sydney's roads fell better when 'confort' setting is selected it's not that noticable on a freeway (IMO). I guess depends on the roads you'll be using the most. I would have been kicking myself now if a heve lost out on the xenons over the ACC. I think the xenons should be the first on your wish list, folowed by 18", leather, ............. ACC somewhere in the bottom half (again IMO).
Good luck

[quakk]

dont get started on the leather!!! another one of those bloody can do-do without issues :brutal:

[elisiX]

Sorry that's right. I wasnt thinking properly before I replied.

Tyre profile will most likely make up for most of the gap.

[sandandsalt]

ACC is worth it just drive one with and one without back to back big difference.

[flappa]

I only ticked 4 boxes , DSG , 18 inch wheels, Bi-Xenon , and ACC.

Why ? Cause I could . . . . and . . . . I love gadgets.

Hoping the Comfort will suit the missus , and I can chuck it into sport if I want.

[Super]

Thanks for the comments guys. The non-ACC car certainly seemed stiff enough for a sports car.. so the real question is whether the comfort mode is noticeably softer to the standard mode.


I think the xenons should be the first on your wish list, folowed by 18", leather, ............. ACC somewhere in the bottom half (again IMO).
Good luck

My thinking is essentially the same. ACC is down the list, but whether the box will get ticked, im still not sure. Looks like im going to have to find a dealer that has a demonstrator with ACC fitted.

[midlifecrisis]

SNIP
My thinking is essentially the same. ACC is down the list, but whether the box will get ticked, im still not sure. Looks like im going to have to find a dealer that has a demonstrator with ACC fitted.

Can you post back when you test drive. I think ACC will make this machine corner much better and generally safer, as well as a nicer family ride. But if its not that different then maybe the $ should go to something else.

[Escell]

I have ACC on my stock 17s and the difference is marked. Just drive over a speed hump and you'll feel a huge difference between comfort and sport.

ACC was a must for me when ordering.

The Sport mode also makes the steering a little more responsive and handles corners like a rock.

IMO - an excellent $1500 option.

[WhiteJames]

ACC is an option that relates to the type of driving your into & type of roadway travelled on.

My last MK5 GTI with KW V3 coilovers and small H&R solid sway bars was fantastic on the Pacific Hwy from Sydney to Gold Coast. Nice smooth freeways were the go for the KW variants. On the other hand, the ride in Sydney Metro and along the New England Hwy through inland NSW cities such as Tamworth, Armidale and Warrick was a bit punishing. Esp with aftermarket sway bars. Just too firm, even with the KW V3 compression and rebound rates set on almost full soft.

ACC is going to allow for softer on New England Hwy and harder on Pacific Hwy. The damping rates may only be subtle, but that's all that would be required imo after test drives on the non-ACC Mark 6 GTI on 17" Denver. Firm suspension is a beatch at lower speeds, but the ride improves as speed rises. Like the GTI's fuel economy, even when under the pump, I like to have my cake and eat it too.

I also felt that an innner city drive along New South Head Road twisties had me wanting a greater level of damping, only about 10-15%, nothing copious. This was in the city at the lower city speed limit. That is damping towards the harder sport setting. Very rarely around town did I opt for any more comfort on the stock non ACC 17" wheeled GTI.

The springs and sway bars in the GTI are well sorted for everyday use, its only the damping that I change in certain conditions. In terms of ride height, imo the GTI sits well low enough, esp with occupant(s) on board with the 18" Detriots.

The reason, I think, that the DSG version of the GTI has firmer front springs is to compensate for the added 20kg of the DSG gearbox.

I had ACC as a definite option with a mind towards handling and usability. I later added Bi-Xenons for a similar reason. Helps stringing corners together at night, making for a less taxing drive and a safer drive, depsite costing about 1K to replace.

I also later added park assist, as rear only sensors would cost @$800 + RVC $500 bringing up the price up to @ $1300. Rear only sensors do not offer the auto-dipping mirror on the Mark 6 GTI, as it's a dealer fitted option for the sensors.

Park Assist with front and rear sensors & auto-dipping left mirror was $1400, so park assist it was (dealer manager later told me RVC was only available with SATNAV, which was contrary to what the salesman told me & incorrect) ... it was a no brainer.

I can park a vehicle like I can manually change television channels by getting up off my butt & pushing the buttons. Front & rear sensors & auto-dipping left mirror is bit like your TV remote control ... less effort involved for the same result.

I'd gladly trade Leather Upolstry for ACC and Park Assist.

Cheers.
WJ

[midlifecrisis]

SNIP


I had ACC as a definite option with a mind towards handling and usability. I later added Bi-Xenons for a similar reason. Helps stringing corners together at night, making for a less taxing drive and a safer drive, depsite costing about 1K to replace.

What do you means $1K to replace?





I'd gladly trade Leather Upolstry for ACC and Park Assist.

Cheers.
WJ

Thanks WhiteJames, that was really helpful since I am looking at ACC and ParkAssist, and Xenons, over getting leather.

[WhiteJames]

For that matter, I'd rather have the Bi-Xenons + ACC or Bi-Xennons + Park Assist over the Leather Seats.

I had leather on my MKV GTI. Leather is too plasticy in texture. At least my MKV GTI had full leather seats, not cloth on the inner centre part of the front seats. I think VW got it spot on with the cloth interior on the Golf R ... cloth/alcantara seats with leather centre console and armrests. They are the only two places you'd want leather, unless you have very young kids & eat/drink and drive alot.

The Xenons on the MKV GTI/R32 were not the swivel type. The swivel function on the new Audi like Bi-Xenons cut the deal for me on the Xenons. Makes an easier and safet drive at night, esp when I head out to my folks farm with plenty of roos at night.

Dealer tells me it costs about $1000 per Bi-Xenon light to replace in an event of an unfortunate episode. Xenons are suppose to last up to 4-5 longer than std headlights, but dealer states that they have seen some premature failure on the Xenon, not common though.

Each sensor on the Park Assist costs @ $300. Not that you should run into anything with park assist, but someone may tap your ride in the carpark when vehicle is unattended.

Cheers.
WJ

[Maverick]

Dealer tells me it costs about $1000 per Bi-Xenon light to replace in an event of an unfortunate episode. Xenons are suppose to last up to 4-5 longer than std headlights, but dealer states that they have seen some premature failure on the Xenon, not common though.

The dealer is full of it. You can pick the bulbs up a lot cheaper than that ($100-150) by purchasing from Europe (mainly Germany). It would be worth buying one in advance as the lead time for delivery is a few weeks if the dealer is charging that much.

Beware of the counterfeit product however so steer clear of the cheapest ones, generally anything like this that ships out of China/Hong Kong is a knockoff.

[WhiteJames]

Mav: You'd be in a better position to know about costs of options/accessories/replacement parts on the Golfer. I think my dealer was refering to complete replacement of the Bi-Xenon in the event of accident damage versus the std halogen. I guess you you'd have some sort of electric motor making the lights swivel.

McGraths Volkswagen Sutherland have a demo GTI for sale with ACC. Perhaps those interested in ACC could source a test drive before it sells. Best route would be thorugh Sutherland towards Wollongong and into the RNP down to the boat shed & return. Good variety of roadways from concrete to freeway, B'grade and tight twisties.

http://www.mcgrathvolkswagensutherland.com.au/specials/index.htm

Options on my Mark 6 GTI and reasons for chosing them are as follows:

DSG - Manual with electronic throttle sucks. Takes too much way from the driver. Good for preseving mechanics & prevent abuse. Manual is like a semi-DSG with electronic throttle. Why do things by halfs.

Detroits 18" - the price of vanity. The 23-24 pound 17" is the better suited for the GTI: Lighter with less unsprung weight which can be multipled x 4 in weight saving in sprung weight, rides better, adds to performance esp cornering. Problem is that they look ordinary & may offer a tad more wheelspin on initial take-off. Have to keep up with the Jones's of the Hot Hatch world ... 18" Detroits @ 28-29 pounds per wheel it is. Heavy bastards, but they are tough wheels. I had the Huffs on my MKV GTI. It not like I'm racing this GTI re: unsprung weight.

ACC - adds to the versitatlity and tunability of the GTI. Get to have my cake and eat it too. Should be able to fit aftermarket coilover kit much later on with VAGCOM to clear any codes (I hope).

Bi-Xenon - Swivel function & self levelling would be fantastic in addition to extra range.

Park Assist - Front & rear sensors & auto-dipping mirror ... 3 in 1 option. Golf with tinted rear glass can be difficult to see out of at night esp in inclement weather. May save kerbing the Detroits wheels (I hope).

Rear Factory Tint - No drama with tint peeling of the rear demister. Uniform apllication of tint. ADR should cover the fact they are tinted more than legal limit (35%). Downside ... front windows will have to be lighter in shade and may not entirely match rear windows. I went for the Street Wise Blue/Black tint (Solar).

MDI - no brainer.

Euro Plates: It's a white GTI. Need a large white plate to cover that large black plate holder. Not so much an issue on a darker coloured GTI.

Options Disgarded:

Sunroof - suffer from dust allegeries & Australia is a hot climate. Too noisey with wind noise.

SATNAV - aftermarket Pioneer SATNAV unit with CD/radio could be had for a little as 2.5K installed when on special. SATNAV costs this much alone.

Dynaudio - see above ... re Pioneer unit.

Leather - some parts cloth. Plastic feeling. Seat heaters are a waste of time in this country ... better with seat coolers like Merc offer. Cloth more comfortable and supportive. Leather will have me sliding around when ACC is in sport model. If only they offered full Recaro on the GTI, only with side airbags when available. On the other hand, if you have young kids ...

Possible Option:

Extended Warranty for @ 1.5-2.0K if keeping the GTI 3-6 years. Have until original warranty runs out (3 years) to make a decision.

Cheers
WJ

[G-rig]

I don't think it's necessay and wouldn't get ACC personally, just another thing to blow money on ( and these days we are easily convinced you need everything).

It just softens the ride doesn't it, not improves performance?

I'd rather spend on aftermarket suspension for performance and looks but depends where you drive and your tollerance.

[Escell]

G Rig - ACC in sport mode tightens up the steering as well as the suspension. It's a clear difference in my car. How it compares to GTIs without ACC I can't say.

As other people have said, you can have your cake and eat it too. Silky steering and no shuddering bumps when you are in comfort mode, solid handling in sport when you're on good quality winding roads.

[WhiteJames]

Having test driven the Mark 6 GTI many times over and having one for half a day, I'd be more inclined to use the 'Sport' button to sharpen the steering and ride/handling. Comfort may be in order for the outback drives, hard to say until my MK6 GTI arrives with 18" wheels. Early criticisims of the Mark 6 GTI was that the steering felt a bit wooden. It's common issue with many makers going from hydraulic to electric steering systems. Drive and steer by wire ... like a dodgem car. Can anyone confirm if ACC sharpens up the throttle senstivity?

On a slight tangent:

Tint - aftermarket tint does offer UV blockage, unlike the factory tint of the rear 3 windows. Not a big concern for me as my ride is not parked outside all day every day. The Street Wise tint going on the two front windows of my ride will offer UV protection, which is where I require it most ... for the driver and front passenger. Only two windows that could peel down the track, rather than 5 windows.

Park Assist - Park assist shows a silhouette on the radio display. With the optional rear camera, you have a choice of seeing the park assist silhouette or the rear camera view ... not both. This was a deciding factor in not choosing the RVC with park assist as the $500 when towards Bi-Xenons.

DSG - the DSG in the Mark 6 offers creep function like a std auto gearbox. The vehicle moves forward when the brake is let off, rather than rolling rearwards on hills as was the case in the previous MK5 GTI. It also feels a little less jerky at car park speeds than the previous MK5 GTI.

Tartan Seats - In respect to dissing the leather option, I'd have to say that the Tartan seats in the Mark 6 GTI look they too have been a victim of cost cutting over the fantastic cloth seats in the previous Mark 5 GTI. Although the Tartan in the Mark 6 look like they could cope better with a food/drink spill.

Value for Money - When purchasing this GTI and my last MK5 GTI, I was aiming for @ 45K driveway. Always end up spec'ing another 3-5K worth of options ... just can't help myself. Resale on options is a terrible investment; but it does make it easier to sell or trade in a few years time (so does not having any aftermarket ECU retune). All in all, most options are just are marginal improvement on an already fine vehicle. This time around I went for the driver focussed options, rather than the luxury options.

Cheers.
WJ

[G-rig]

G Rig - ACC in sport mode tightens up the steering as well as the suspension. It's a clear difference in my car. How it compares to GTIs without ACC I can't say.

As other people have said, you can have your cake and eat it too. Silky steering and no shuddering bumps when you are in comfort mode, solid handling in sport when you're on good quality winding roads.

Cheers, there wasn't much info about it in the brochure and though that the hardest setting was same as standard, then a softer one for those who want softer ride (or are used to sitting in an armchair).

As WJ said options dont equate to much come time to sell or trade it so the main thing is to enjoy them while you have the car (i just dont want to go overboard as it's a bit of a waste, but so are mods but would leave you more to spend on them :) ).



Tint - aftermarket tint does offer UV blockage, unlike the factory tint of the rear 3 windows. Not a big concern for me as my ride is not parked outside all day every day. The Street Wise tint going on the two front windows of my ride will offer UV protection, which is where I require it most ... for the driver and front passenger. Only two windows that could peel down the track, rather than 5 windows.


I like to think tint protects your interior as well from the sun.

Tint should last well over 10 years and not peel unless you got a crappy tint/job. I try and get metallic tints which wont fade like dye tints (think the dealer is dye)..

Never a fan of non-matching tints as privacy glass is always darker than legal.

[Corey_R]

Tint - aftermarket tint does offer UV blockage, unlike the factory tint of the rear 3 windows. Not a big concern for me as my ride is not parked outside all day every day. The Street Wise tint going on the two front windows of my ride will offer UV protection, which is where I require it most ... for the driver and front passenger. Only two windows that could peel down the track, rather than 5 windows.
Modern tints, installed properly, don't tint. Not even after 10 years of use. They don't offer lifetime warranties on them without having confidence in the product. Also - the thing about that VW factory tint not having UV blockage... if it doesnt have that, then how good would the rest of its solar properties be? Like, the TSER (Total Solar Energy Rejection)? Without a high TSER rating you'll use more fuel during the summer days by requiring more Aircon to keep the car cool.

[Maverick]

Modern tints, installed properly, don't tint. Not even after 10 years of use. They don't offer lifetime warranties on them without having confidence in the product. Also - the thing about that VW factory tint not having UV blockage... if it doesnt have that, then how good would the rest of its solar properties be? Like, the TSER (Total Solar Energy Rejection)? Without a high TSER rating you'll use more fuel during the summer days by requiring more Aircon to keep the car cool.

They don't tint coreying? Damn! :banana:

But yes modern tints are great, unless you get some cheap film and it's installed by someone with no experience it should outlast the car. I've seen some shockers around recently on fairly new cars like the magna with the whole rear window with massive bubbles to the point I couldn't see through it during the day! I'd guess they tried to do it using a cheap DIY kit and now are too lazy to pull it off.

[WhiteJames]

This is the official NSW line on window tinting directly from the NSW RTA website:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi03_rev3.pdf

These regs tend to follow ADR's as a general rule, but may vary from state to state.

Interesting to see that on page 2 of 4 it states that most windscreen manufacturers state that 98% of harmful UV rays are dealt with. The film tint version deals with guys that suffer medical conditions ... perhaps an Albino or those suffering dermatitis or similar.

Also an interesting section on the sanwich type windscreen that the Mark 6 has with some form of sound deading incorporated into the front windscreen.

For those considering the Golf 'R' with 19" Talledaga wheels, on other continents, including neighbour NZ, the factory tint is part of the 19" wheel option. Some may not have any choice in this regard.

Fuel consumption:

From Sydney to Gold Coast, using two different routes (New England up/Pacific Hwy down), my MKV GTI used 7.0 litres/100km door to door inlcuding city driving, which is not far from stated ADR fuel consumption claim. From Sydney to Canberra it averages 7.2 litres/100km door to door. I reckon the Mark 6 GTI should cut this by up to half a litre on both journeys (esp Sydney to Qld) .... exciting stuff.

Cheers.
WJ

[Maverick]

This is the official NSW line on window tinting directly from the NSW RTA website:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi03_rev3.pdf

These regs tend to follow ADR's as a general rule, but may vary from state to state.

Interesting to see that on page 2 of 4 it states that most windscreen manufacturers state that 98% of harmful UV rays are dealt with. The film tint version deals with guys that suffer medical conditions ... perhaps an Albino or those suffering dermatitis or similar.

There's many types of UV however and I wouldn't put any faith in claims by windscreen manufacturers as they are talking about UV in general and a lot of your sun exposure also comes from the side windows (especially the arms).

Ordinary glass will block some UV-A and nearly all UV-B.

UV-A (long wave): Most likely to causes cancer and aging of the skin.
UV-B (medium wave): Most sunburn and some cancer.
UV-C (short wave): The ozone layer takes care of this.

[Corey_R]

They don't tint coreying? Damn! :banana: lol - sorry - it's been a BIG week! But yeah, I mean they don't peel. Thank you for being intelligent enough to figure that out :)

[G-rig]

For those considering the Golf 'R' with 19" Talledaga wheels, on other continents, including neighbour NZ, the factory tint is part of the 19" wheel option. Some may not have any choice in this regard.


I don't really like not getting a choice about the privacy glass.. It has a green tinge which i don't really like, but to match the shade the front two windows would probably be darker than legal.

As people have said in other threads (that work in insurance) you won't get your insurance claims denied just because of tints.

Mav how does privacy glass go in terms of head rejection, UV-A & UV-B?

[Pauly]

There's many types of UV however and I wouldn't put any faith in claims by windscreen manufacturers as they are talking about UV in general and a lot of your sun exposure also comes from the side windows (especially the arms).

Ordinary glass will block some UV-A and nearly all UV-B.

UV-A (long wave): Most likely to causes cancer and aging of the skin.
UV-B (medium wave): Most sunburn and some cancer.
UV-C (short wave): The ozone layer takes care of this.

But in Australia at least, we don't really have much of an Ozone Layer left. Are there some tints that do UV-C aswell?

[hoi polloi]

The ACC could be handy for me... Not for any handling benefits but because the roads around Sydney's inner-west must be the worst in the country - "comfort" mode would be used a lot...

Regards,
- Anthony.

[Corey_R]

Mav how does privacy glass go in terms of head rejection, UV-A & UV-B?


But in Australia at least, we don't really have much of an Ozone Layer left. Are there some tints that do UV-C aswell?

I hope that Maverick has some actual specs for the VW factory tint, because I've never been able to find any. I believe that it only shields from 'most' UV-B. As for heat rejection - people on these forums who have cars with it says that it's not fantastic - hence why some forum members have then had a 'clear tint' installed over the privacy tint. But as I said before, clear tint is made using gold foil and is the MOST expensive tint.

Good quality aftermarket tints will shield from over 99% of UV-A, UV-B and UV-C, whilst offering up to 53% of 'Total Solar Energy Rejection' on a 35% tint on the best performing lines. Mind you, even from the same tint company, the lower performing tints can bloack as low as 29% of TSER on a 35% tint!!! (still with >99% UV rejection though). So yeah, it is really worth doing your research as there is a big variance in performance between 35% tints.

[WhiteJames]

One major disadvantage of the factory tint is in the event of an accident for steal from motor vehicle with smashed glass. You'd be ordering a tinted window, not clear, which may add some delay & cost in repairing your ride. In addition, the aftermarket film acts as a lamination in the event of a motor vehicle collision.

ACC and 18" Detroit Wheels:

My test drives were all performed on 17" Denver with std GTI suspension. The 17" Denver weighs @ 23 pounds. This wheel reduces the unsprung weight of the vehicle (i.e. weight under, not over the springs). An alternative view would be to suggest that reducing the unsprung weight of the GTI, inadvertently adds to the spring rate. In other words, with lighter wheels, the suspension is asked to do less in terms of controlling the lighter wheel when bumps & undulations are struck on the roadways.

The Detroit 18" wheel weghs @ 28 pounds. The general rule of unsprung weight reduction is that it has the effect of reducing sprung weight by x 4. Some experts say in certain cases, it can be as much as x 6 in sprung weight reduction. Over rougher B-grade roadways and when striking bumps/undulations, you loose suspension control, firmness and ultimately agility with the 18" Detroits. The damper is fighting the extra 5 pounds in unsprung weight, which may be like 20-30 pounds per corner in sprung weight. This will induce faster wear on the dampers as they become hotter when asked to work harder. Not to mention that the tyre contact patch could be compromised with less effective compression and rebound of the damper struggling against the heavier Detroit wheel.

The heavier 18" Detroits, your ride will be more brittle, this brittleness never goes away as I found out when I turned my KW V3 coilovers to full soft settings. ACC may reduce some of the harsher ride characteristics of the larger 18" wheel & flatter tyre combination when on 'soft'. Alternatively, you have the ability to put ACC on 'Sport', compensating for the added unsprung wheel weight of the 18" Detroits.

Other advantage of ACC in the longer term is that as the damper wears down, and losses its resistence & effectiveness, you could run ACC in sport all the time to create that new car feeling of firmness & agility. In any event, with heavier 18" Detroit wheels, the dampers may wear at a faster rate than having a lighter wheel & tyre combination.

Cheers.
WJ

[G-rig]

I hope that Maverick has some actual specs for the VW factory tint, because I've never been able to find any. I believe that it only shields from 'most' UV-B. As for heat rejection - people on these forums who have cars with it says that it's not fantastic - hence why some forum members have then had a 'clear tint' installed over the privacy tint. But as I said before, clear tint is made using gold foil and is the MOST expensive tint.

Good quality aftermarket tints will shield from over 99% of UV-A, UV-B and UV-C, whilst offering up to 53% of 'Total Solar Energy Rejection' on a 35% tint on the best performing lines. Mind you, even from the same tint company, the lower performing tints can bloack as low as 29% of TSER on a 35% tint!!! (still with >99% UV rejection though). So yeah, it is really worth doing your research as there is a big variance in performance between 35% tints.

That's what i was thinking. What's the point of getting privacy glass if it doesn't do as good a job as after market tint, and also defeats the purpose if you have to tint over it in clear as well. I wouldn't get 19" if that's the case, but 18" would be good enough but not that sold on the Telladega's anyway.

I've currently got Sungard Eclipse on my R32 and as well as looking stunning with it's slightly reflective properties it rejects 62.6% of solar energy.

A lot of people assume you need very dark to get the interior cool but it's all about rejecting the heat.

[G-rig]

Interesting read WJ.

Would you say if you went from OEM 17" to lightweight 18" there would be almost no compromises to the factory suspension and would you need ACC?


Other advantage of ACC in the longer term is that as the damper wears down, and losses its resistence & effectiveness, you could run ACC in sport all the time to create that new car feeling of firmness & agility.

Is that how it would work or would you need to replace the whole damper anyway? Was also wondering the replacement cost down the track of VW ACC suspension and which parts you'd be locked into using and may not allow you to use after market bits later? Just a though as OEM replacement parts are usually quite hefty.

It's easy to justify each option but could end up ticking every box that way.

[Corey_R]

I've currently got Sungard Eclipse on my R32 and as well as looking stunning with it's slightly reflective properties it rejects 62.6% of solar energy.

A lot of people assume you need very dark to get the interior cool but it's all about rejecting the heat.

Exactly. I didn't include any reflective tints in my '53%' comments above because reflective tints are also illegal. HOWEVER, all tints are reflective to a certain %, and as far as I can see the ADR doesn't give a valid maximum %, therefore you can probably get away with lightly reflective tint, and as you've noted, you'll get even more solar energy reduction, and therefore a cooler interior and lower fuel bills :)

[G-rig]

Yeah, when i said reflective it's not like full mirror tint that looks cheap and tacky (and which would attract the wrong attention) however it's fairly subtle but in the right light looks amazing, esp when there are heaps of storm clouds rolling in and it hazes up quite reflective. Still varies from different angles but would get it again.

Wont get lower fuel bills with an R32 though :P

[WhiteJames]

All valid points.

I concede that the aftermarket tints may have a greater range of heat reducing properties, and most likely offer an overall improvement in every aspect of heat reduction. Probably look better to if its like the Street Wise film tint I had on my MKV GTI (front windows of new MK6 - GTI will also have Street Wise Tint).

Whether the benefits of aftermarket tint are substantial or marginal is a bit obscure with no firm comparitive data. Stick on film can be scratched or damaged. It'd be harder for this to occur on the tinted glass.

Given the opportunit to build my own MK6 GTI, similar to building a house. If I was going tint on my home, I'd want the best quality tint in the glass from the factory first & foremost. If this is insufficient for the hot Aus climate in terms of heat reduction, then a film could be applied.

Each to their own on tint. If you work in a hot climate and have your ride outside all day, everyday, then you'd want the best protection. This is not the case with my GTI, which will be garaged most of the time.

Driving the Mark 6 GTI test vehicle for half a day around Sydney, I did notice that I had to have the climate control air-con turned down 2-3 degrees to compensate for no aftermarket tint or privacy glass. Doubt it would affect fuel consumption that much. Having the air-con unit OFF doesn't make much of a difference, I found, in terms of economy.

ACC and Lightweight Wheels:

Forged alloy wheels don't come cheap ... starting price @ $750. Cheaper cast lightweight (not forged) like OZ Racing are available, but probably not up to the job on Aus terra firma. The factory VW Racing wheels ain't cheap either, and don't look bling enough (see BBS-CH-R wheels and you'll know what I mean).

The ACC unit on the Mark 6 GTI would most likely be built by Sachs-Boge suspension makers. Even the Aus Falcon has Sachs-Boge dampers (mono-tube gas).

Aftermarket kits for the Golf may be available for Sachs with ACC in coilover version down the track. Bilstein offer this aftermarket kit. Similar to the Porsche PASM and Nissan GTR factory dampers, which are also made by Bilstein.

For standard coilovers, I can't see any reason why you couldn't eliminate any fault code with VAGCOM and install a set of standard coilovers (Sachs/Tein Euro/HPA KW SHS for comfort/sports).

Cheers.
WJ

[Corey_R]

Whether the benefits of aftermarket tint are substantial or marginal is a bit obscure with no firm comparitive data. Stick on film can be scratched or damaged. It'd be harder for this to occur on the tinted glass.
Two good points there. It's definitely harder to scratch the tint in laminated glass.


Given the opportunit to build my own MK6 GTI, similar to building a house. If I was going tint on my home, I'd want the best quality tint in the glass from the factory first & foremost. If this is insufficient for the hot Aus climate in terms of heat reduction, then a film could be applied.
I've already had both in homes. 'Comfortone Glass' which has a 'bronze' tint laminate inside the glass and is twice the thickness of the usual glass panes used in homes. Awesome, very low internal and external reflectivity which means it's easy to see in and out of, even at night. Also blocked a decent amount of heat.
However, in my apartment it is north facing and on the top floor - so it gets the sun ALL DAY. The comfortone glass just wouldn't be up to the job, so I've gone for a Solargard Solar Bronze 35. It actually rejects 70% of Total Solar Energy - which is over twice that of the Comfortone Glass. The emissivity is also quite good (meaning it retains heat well in winter). But it has the disadvantage of being quite reflective from the outside during the day, and from the inside at night.

The other alternative would have been to get the Comfortone Glass and THEN put the Solargard LX70 'clear tint'. But yeah - just like with the VW privacy glass, this option ends up being about 3 to 4 times the cost of just using a high quality regular tint. LX70 is literally using gold foil. It's SOOOO expensive.

So yeah - until the glass laminate tint gets up to the performance of aftermarket tint film, I'll stick with the film in places which need maximum heat regulation :)

[WhiteJames]

I did forget to mention that the slight reduction in clear view is another reason I'm going with Privacy Glass. Its was only a minor annoyance on the MKV GTI with Solar Street Wise Blue/Black tint. Looking forward to the clearer view of the natural privacy glass. Prepared to forgo some heat insulation for the clearer view. Still have the issue of a slightly obscured view on the two front windows, which leads me to my next point.

With the front of the GTI having the split grill and lower black portion under the grill making it appear a tad front heavy, I'm looking to compensate, starting off with perhaps a slightly less aggressive tint on the two front windows, darkening rearwards with the privacy glass. Not sure how this will end up or how well the two front windows will match the rear privacy glass. 29% was touted for the front going to 35% for the rear 3 windows. My dealer uses Solar, as they have their workshop directly behind McGraths Sutherland VW. I'll leave it up to Solar to judge the best type & level of tint to match the privacy glass. Dealer did say they would go for the Blue/Black Street Wise tint as this appeared to most closely match the factory privacy glass.

For those looking for options -v- no options, here is a review of a bog standard 3 door manual GTI (no options):

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/6BD90FC7BD349E23CA2576BF007C789D

I like it when they say:


After one especially spirited driving session we checked our fuel consumption figures, and too our amazement we were averaging sub-10L/100km numbers. Speaking of having your cake…

Cheers
WJ

[G-rig]

Different reivew.. they didn't exactly like the steering and sounds like it was a bit firm around town (which is where ACC may be worth it if the chassis is that bit too stiff).

Wonder what they would have thought about the DSG.

[Corey_R]

With the front of the GTI having the split grill and lower black portion under the grill making it appear a tad front heavy, I'm looking to compensate, starting off with perhaps a slightly less aggressive tint on the two front windows, darkening rearwards with the privacy glass. Not sure how this will end up or how well the two front windows will match the rear privacy glass. 29% was touted for the front going to 35% for the rear 3 windows.
Sorry - I may have misunderstood what you are saying, but if you want to go lighter on the front windows, then the tint % will be higher. The lower the % the darker the tint - as the % is refering to VLT (Visible Light Transmittance).

[Pauly]

getting abit off topic arnt we? This thread is about the Adaptive Chassis Control, not window tinting.

I know coreying may not like me saying this, but maybe a new thread is in order for windows tinting?

[Corey_R]

Nah - there's already a thread for it ;)

[Pauly]

I cant seem to find if anyone has asked this before.

But what is the GTI's stock suspension similar to in an ACC equipped version?

for example:

is the stock GTI suspension similar to the ACC Sport Setting? or the Normal Setting?

is the NON GTI suspension similar to the ACC Comfort setting?

[Maverick]

I cant seem to find if anyone has asked this before.

But what is the GTI's stock suspension similar to in an ACC equipped version?

for example:

is the stock GTI suspension similar to the ACC Sport Setting? or the Normal Setting?

is the NON GTI suspension similar to the ACC Comfort setting?

See page 1 and the links plus search as this has already been covered :troll:

[G-rig]

I wouldn't call him a troll.. We need a do not spoon feed the noob sign.

[Corey_R]

We need a do not spoon feed the noob sign.

lol! That'd be great :D

[WhiteJames]

My bad ...


With the front of the GTI having the split grill and lower black portion under the grill making it appear a tad front heavy, I'm looking to compensate, starting off with perhaps a slightly less aggressive tint on the two front windows, darkening rearwards with the privacy glass. Not sure how this will end up or how well the two front windows will match the rear privacy glass. 29% was touted for the front going to 35% for the rear 3 windows.

Fat finger sydrome ... 39% front film tint and 35% rear privacy glass. Have to re-read what I'm posting in future.

Returning the topic re ACC:

Most are ordering the heavier 28-29 pound Detriot 18" wheel. How we luv them Detroits. The heavier weight of the Detroits makes for a more convincing case to option in the ACC as a matched pair; unless going aftermarket down the track.

Still not clear on whether ACC adapts immediately pro-actively in milliseconds to bumps/pot-holes/undulations in normal mode. As stated before, NORMAL mode does default to SPORT mode after a certain speed to aid handling, agility & safety. Earlier UK reviews and MOTOR Mag in Aus seem to think that the throttle sensitivity is adjusted in addition to steering. Pity you cannot separate each individual ACC setting: Steeering/Dampers/Throttle responsivenss as allowed on BMW's.

On a tangent regarding traffic rules (Mav may like this one).

The head honcho of Mercedes Benz speaks out about Australian Road Rules:

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/speed-doesnt-kill-says-benz-20100304-pjin.html

Cheers.
WJ

[G-rig]

Another approach could be to buy lightweight 18" wheels with the money you would have spent on ACC+18" upgrade, but OEM is kind of cool.

[WhiteJames]

Problem I find with aftermarket wheels on the GTI is that the GTI loses it character and definition. The Mark 6 GTI is difficult enough to distinguish from the other Golf variants. Wheels will only excerbate this problem. Me ... I'm sticking with the Detroits/Huffs, despite the extra weight.

On another issue:

Park Assist - have to remind you guys that it comes with front and rear sensors + auto-dipping left mirror + Silhouette interior display that works in low visibility conditions (fog/rain/darkness). I'm putting $600 a piece for front & rear sensors and $200 for auto-dipping mirror (or $500 a piece & $400 for auto-mirror). Sensors take the guesswork out of parking the GTI, should save on kerbing alloys, which can be easily done when rushed to park. Auto-dipping mirror is the best feature imo. Always have to take that bit more time to lower the left mirror manually. Handy to have it automatically done in an instant. Golf with max tinted rear windows ain't so easy to see out of at night, esp wet nights. Can't see where the front of the Golf ends due to pedestrian safety laws forcing higher bonnet lines and crash safety dictating higher waist lines (blame SUV vehicles for that one).

Cheers.
WJ

[G-rig]

I agree WJ, the huffs/detroits really suit the GTI and make it easily to identify. Still think the 17" look a bit too small on the mk6.

Wouldn't mind more of an oem look next time even though there are some very nice wheels out there. Still keen to get some black/gun metal wheels one day. The mk6 does seem to nice to mod though .

Still don't think 18" would be that much to worry about on a gti, they are meant to feel a bit sporty not soft like a camry. You could also put 1-2 psi less in the tyres.

Personally i wouldn't get ACC as nobody will care about that option or know what it is come time to sell, and is money gone straight away (at least you can see a sun roof and adds to the luxury of the car - most people would still prefer a car with one given the choice).

[triode12]

DSG - the DSG in the Mark 6 offers creep function like a std auto gearbox. The vehicle moves forward when the brake is let off, rather than rolling rearwards on hills as was the case in the previous MK5 GTI. It also feels a little less jerky at car park speeds than the previous MK5 GTI.



Cheers.
WJ

Actually, the hill assist function was added on to the DSG Golfs from MY08 onwards.

[Mk6 GTI]

Problem I find with aftermarket wheels on the GTI is that the GTI loses it character and definition. The Mark 6 GTI is difficult enough to distinguish from the other Golf variants. Wheels will only excerbate this problem. Me ... I'm sticking with the Detroits/Huffs, despite the extra weight.

On another issue:

Park Assist - have to remind you guys that it comes with front and rear sensors + auto-dipping left mirror + Silhouette interior display that works in low visibility conditions (fog/rain/darkness). I'm putting $600 a piece for front & rear sensors and $200 for auto-dipping mirror (or $500 a piece & $400 for auto-mirror). Sensors take the guesswork out of parking the GTI, should save on kerbing alloys, which can be easily done when rushed to park. Auto-dipping mirror is the best feature imo. Always have to take that bit more time to lower the left mirror manually. Handy to have it automatically done in an instant. Golf with max tinted rear windows ain't so easy to see out of at night, esp wet nights. Can't see where the front of the Golf ends due to pedestrian safety laws forcing higher bonnet lines and crash safety dictating higher waist lines (blame SUV vehicles for that one).

Cheers.
WJ

totally agree with u about the wheels.. Love the 18's!!

[WhiteJames]

MOTOR Mag April Issue has the journos collecting their 'Long Termer' 3 door Red Golf GTI with 17" Denvers on std suspension (No ACC). They were hoping for a GTI with ACC and 18" wheels, but delays on delivery of GTI's (them like me) are persisting at VW Wolfsburg.

The journos at MOTOR Mag state that this is the first GTI without ACC they have driven. They claim that the GTI rides on the firm side on std non ACC suspension and 17" wheels. GTI still has the big bump (high speed compression) compliance that puts it a class ahead of the competition like the Mazda MPS3.

MOTOR Mag indicate that the GTI on std non ACC suspension lacks the ACC low speed urban ride in COMFORT, which was expected imo. What was suprising was that MOTOR state that std non ACC suspension also lacks the ACC all-round suppleness when ACC was on NORMAL setting. This may suggest that ACC may be a proactive system that is constantly changing to the varied roadway conditions. If this is the case, this would be great ... talk about having your cake and ....

More info to come from MOTOR on subsequent reviews on this issue with this long termer GTI.

Taking account of the firmish ride of the GTI on std suspension, MOTOR journos would still opt for the 18" Detroits. So would I. The price of vanity.

My opinion on these remarks with limited time in the GTI with similar wheels & std suspension:

I'd say that the journos are close to the mark. I found the low speed compression and rebound rate of the MK6 GTI close to the KW V3 coilovers I ran on my MKV GTI. The KW V3 coilover felt only slightly firmer in this regard travelling on smooth roadways like General Holmes Drive (near Barlowworld VW, Mascot-Sydney). The extra spring rate of the KW V3 coupled with lower ride height and extra spring rate from the aftermarket small solid H&R sway bars aided handling on my MKV GTI, but further detracted from ride comfort versus the MK6 GTI on std suspension.

Having read these initial reviews has me thinking that 'maybe' ACC is proactive in varying the compression and rebound rates of the dampers when they react with undulations on the roadway. This would also back up claims by others that ACC seems to feel softer than the 'one size fits all' std suspension. If this is the case, I'd say ACC would definitely be a worthwhile option to have for $1500. That's still a bit 'IF' as this is not conclusive evidence.

Spring rates for ACC versus non-ACC wouldn't vary imo. No reason for them to vary the spring rate (Manual -v- DSG appears to vary as discussed before).

Audi offer HSV GTS/Ferrari type of magnetic dampers that proactively change the damping rates as you drive in NORMAL mode. Audi charge $2400 for their magnetic version of ACC (VW version does not use magnets). On the other hand, Bi-Xenon lights on the Audi A3 costs only $700 as an option versus $2,000 for the GTI.

Overall - this is good news on the ACC option I'm paying $1500 for. Having said this, I haven't driven the ACC version, but time will time.

Cheers.
WJ

[G-rig]

Everyone made do without ACC on the MK5...

Is this just a money grab (like a lot of the options lately) or is the MK6 Chassis really that stiff?

Also is the stock GTI suspension under dampened like the R32 stock suspension?

cheers,

[STV4SYT]

500km into my ownership and having no ACC and 18's i thought id comment.

Where i live at there are a lot of speed bumps and tram tracks. after reading all the posts about get ACC if you order 18's i was a little concerned.

In the end, its still a comfortable ride, handles speed bumps well and bar the occasional bad bump in the road where its a tiny bit less comfortable than a car with smaller wheels or softer suspension im more than happy with how it behaves.

Save your money...

[Leagle]

I was going to post a response to the ACC debate after I read the Motor article in the April 2010 edition, but Whitejames beat me to it!

I don't own a Mark 6 Golf but recently bought a Passat CC which features Adaptive chassis Control as standard.

Having previously owned a WRX (and yes, I toyed with the idea of a Golf Gti but wanted/could afford a larger sporting sedan/coupe) I thought that I would mainly leave ACC in "sports" mode. Funnily enough though, I now leave it in "comfort" mode most of the time. Blame our substandard aussie roads.

But if I was buying a Golf Gti, I would probably pass on ACC, only because I consider the GTi to be a more focussed - if not slower in a straight line ;P - sportscar than my CC.

If I bought a GTi, I would go 6sp manual, white (or maybe red), sunroof, wouldn't bother with the tech gadgets such as park assist. Funnily enough the CC that I bought is DSG, silver, no sunroof, but is loaded with the tech gadgets. Funny that!

[G-rig]

It's so subjective as everyones comfort levels/tollerance is different. How comfortable does it have to be, you don't want to fall asleep!?




But if I was buying a Golf Gti, I would probably pass on ACC, only because I consider the GTi to be a more focussed - if not slower in a straight line ;P - sportscar than my CC.

If I bought a GTi, I would go 6sp manual, white (or maybe red), sunroof, wouldn't bother with the tech gadgets such as park assist. Funnily enough the CC that I bought is DSG, silver, no sunroof, but is loaded with the tech gadgets. Funny that!

:laugh:

[Escell]

ACC in normal mode is not just "somewhere between comfort and sport".

It stays supple at low speeds and tightens up with spirited driving.

[G-rig]

is there a button to change it or does it change when the speed is greater than 'X'??

[Escell]

I can't tell if it's revs or speed that tightens the Normal mode.
There's no button to change it during normal mode - but you can obviously manually set comfort or sport.

Sport, as I've said before, noticeably tightens the steering and makes it more responsive, not silky and dampened like in comfort mode.

[G-rig]

Cheers, can you change it when in motion and notice much difference?

[WhiteJames]

ACC in NORMAL mode automatically changes setting to SPORT once a certain speed is attained. Issue I'm trying to clarify is whether the ACC has a mind of its own in NORMAL mode and firms & softens relative to the roadway conditions ... like the magnetic dampers in the HSV GTS/Ferrari/Audi's.

That standard suspension in the Mark 6 GTI is much improved over the MKV GTI. Nice mix of comfort & sports. In some areas, I'd like some more sports, esp with throttle and steering sensivity change. Pity you can't set each function individually from one another (suspension/steering/throttle).

As for a gimmick, wait and see. I'm doubting that ACC would be pointless; although any option on the GTI is a marginal improvement on what is already a nicely rounded package.

On yeah ... the earlier comments with the KW V3 coilovers was referring to the KW V3 being set to almost full soft. Anyting more than half way to max becomes very stiff indeed.

Cheers.
WJ

[Escell]

G-Rig, yes it's noticeably more smooth in comfort. And if I go round a bend at speed in comfort mode I instantly notice far more cabin lean.

It's such a decent difference I always change the settings on the fly depending on what the road is like within a ten minute drive to work.

Whitejames - I'm pretty sure the ACC doesn't adapt to the road type itself.

This would be impressive though. As I have ACC, I can tell you it's definitely not a gimmick. I think it's the best thing you can add to the Mk6 as when you couple it with sport vs drive on a DSG, you can essentially own two cars in one.

[G-rig]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Being a bigger vehicle hard to know if it would mean as much on a Golf (just like park assist and all the other options you 'need' these days).

[R34]

My dealer kindly let me test a CC with ACC and a std R36 back to back.
I picked a course that had a mix of smooth and rough backroads.
Obviously the CC was a lot softer in it's swaybar settings compared to the std R36.
But as far as shockabsorber settings I'd say the CC in sport mode felt stiffer than the R36 shocks.
I'd ordered the ACC for my R36 and am glad I did.
Normal seemed to be the best of both worlds.
Just have to wait 6 months now for my car to arrive

[dencar]

"Whitejames - I'm pretty sure the ACC doesn't adapt to the road type itself."

My interpretation of this is that it does.

http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en2/experience/innovation/running_car/dcc.html

[WhiteJames]

Thanks for the link to the brochure and explaination of the ACC (DCC in Europe?). The brochure indicates that ACC does constantly adapt to roadway conditions, going as far as stating that even in comfort mode, fast lanechanges result in dampers settings moving to sport depending on drive technique. Statements like:


This allows the system to react within milliseconds to bumps in the road, changing lanes or bendy roads.
The innovative system ensures that the suspension is constantly adapting to suit the road and driving situation.

The control system always remains active and is ever ready to ensure sporty stiff suspension when changing lanes, even in “Comfort” mode.

This is good. Adds to comfort & handling. The added agility when you most need it is another enhanced safety measure.

Cheers.
WJ

[G-rig]

Sounds good, and i guess all the good cars are coming out with some form of magnetic dampening, even if they are mostly saloons etc.

May be worth it and give after market suspension a miss (as it's hard to get right with NVH anyway).

[Lima]

All they need to add is a flexible ride height. :P

[G-rig]

Agree, half the fun is changing the cosmetics and removing wheel gap as well as handling.

I don't think i'd bother with ACC on a Golf though, as it is meant to feel more firm/sporty than the basic models.

Could be good on the larger cars.

[Corey_R]

Thanks for the link to the brochure and explaination of the ACC (DCC in Europe?).

From what I can tell, VW have realised that ACC keeps getting confused for Automatic Climate Control and Adaptive Cruise Control and have decided since there was already two ACC's in their TLA's that they're start calling Active Chassis Control by the new name of Dynamic Chassis Control and thus use the DCC TLA.

[Pauly]

For those who are intrested:

The Motor Report posted up a review of the Golf 6 with a DSG Box and Adapative Chassis Control.

They have tested a GTI with and without ACC, so it seems good for people who want to compare:

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/49980/2010-vw-golf-6-gti-dsg-road-test-review

"There are two suspensions offered for the GTI – a conventional coil-and-damper arrangement or a similar system with electronically adjustable dampers.

The standard set-up is a bit stiff for regular road use, but the optional Adaptive Chassis Control offers three settings: Normal, Comfort or Sport.

Normal mode is close to the standard non-adjustable suspension tune, but Comfort is softer, less jarring and easier to live with over pockmarked roads.

Indeed, Comfort is perhaps the better mode for a serious backroads blast, the more compliant tune soaking up bumps that would otherwise unsettle a more stiffly-damped car.

Sport, on the other hand, tightens the chassis to a degree that’s suitable for the occasional trackday sprint. However, we don’t recommend it for your daily commute.

On more sedate drives, the GTI’s ride can be a problem. It’s hard - not spine-breakingly so, but hard nonetheless – and unless you opt for the Adaptive Chassis Control system there’s not a lot that can be done about it.

Options like the 18-inch alloys and Adaptive Chassis Control bump up the retail price by $1200 and $1500 respectively, and in our opinion the variable damper technology is a box that should be ticked."

[WhiteJames]

I think the issue of ACC aka DCC being proactive, that is reacting to each & every undulation with a consummate change in damping rate every millisecond, has been put to rest. ACC is proactive.

Change in steering sensitivity and weight is also a clear cut case.

The issue with the change in throttle sensitivity is still unclear. > Some reports on the MANUAL version state that the throttle sensitivity is enhanced. Other reports failed to note any change in throttle actuation. None of the reports on the DSG indicate any change in throttle sensitivity.

In respect to aftermarket suspension for the MKV and MKVI Golf:

Tug'n'Release and Spring Bind are common problems with lowering springs. To a lessor extend, strut top bearings. Most strut type progressive lowering springs have some form of spring bind. Tug'n'Release is a real problem with the heavier Golfs (R32 and probably Golf R). Best suspension identified so far AFAIK that are Spring Bind and Tug'n'Release free are:

KW V1-V3 coilovers.
Tein Euro coilovers (comfort/sports).
HPA KW SHS coilovers (comfort/sports).
Sachs Street Performance coilovers.
Bilstein PSS (not confirmed on some issues with noise).

Additional aspect of aftermarket suspension is not having the installer screw up the installation.

With the electronic XDS (XDL) diff, sway bars are not such a requirement on the MK6 GTI. The MK6 GTI carries less factory understeer than the MKV GTI.

Bi-Xenons:
The replacement cost for one headlight on a Merc C63 AMG is $2638.
The @ $1,000 that my dealer est to me for a complete replacement of one Bi-Xenon seems understated compared to the Merc.
In any event, when driving in the country at night and attempting to avoid Roos, best to slow down by knocking off 20-30kph of your speed.

Cheers.
WJ

[G-rig]

RE: the Bi-xenon's, they would be covered under warranty for 3 years, and I'd take out extended warranty if i kept the car for 5 years (so not much to worry about for a fair while and not that many people would keep the car longer than that?).

[WhiteJames]

This is a short Swedish Review of the Golf R with 19" wheels on Standard Suspension:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alltommotor.se%2Ftester%2Fbilar %2Fvolkswagen%2Fbuskul-golf-r-kostar-skjortan-1.20763&sl=sv&tl=en

Translation is not good, but ... similar issues keep turning up ... re:

1. Excessive Golf R fuel consumption -v- claimed figures (as opposed to the GTI); more to the point ...

2. Golf R on standard suspension with 19" wheels gives a hard ride.

Recommended fix for point (2) ... ACC (DCC) Adaptive Chassis Control Dampers.

On a tangent:

In respect to the MANUAL gearbox in the Golf, whether it be a GTI or Golf R, point made in this thread was that the gear ratios are too close and the throw/actuation of the MANUAL gearbox too long & cumbersome for a truly sporting drive.

I share the same view regarding the MANUAL tranny; better give it a miss.

Read on later into page 2 of the thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4757750

Cheers.
WJ

[Maverick]

On the other hand, Bi-Xenon lights on the Audi A3 costs only $700 as an option versus $2,000 for the GTI.

Actually you'll find it's $1800 Xenon headlights and $750 for the adaptive cornering option so $2550 instead of $2000 on the GTI.

[G-rig]

I think i'd definitely get ACC with the 19" option on the Golf R, coudl be a pretty hard ride as the MK6 chassis is a fair bit stiffer. Still undecided whether i'd need it on the GTI with 18", probably nice to have.

[Maverick]

Bi-Xenons:
The replacement cost for one headlight on a Merc C63 AMG is $2638.
The @ $1,000 that my dealer est to me for a complete replacement of one Bi-Xenon seems understated compared to the Merc.
In any event, when driving in the country at night and attempting to avoid Roos, best to slow down by knocking off 20-30kph of your speed.

Cheers.
WJ

Complete replacement is $2500-3000 for the Bi-Xenon and ~$1500 for the halogen (each).

[Maverick]

Personally i wouldn't get ACC as nobody will care about that option or know what it is come time to sell, and is money gone straight away (at least you can see a sun roof and adds to the luxury of the car - most people would still prefer a car with one given the choice).


Sounds good, and i guess all the good cars are coming out with some form of magnetic dampening, even if they are mostly saloons etc.

May be worth it and give after market suspension a miss (as it's hard to get right with NVH anyway).


Agree, half the fun is changing the cosmetics and removing wheel gap as well as handling.

I don't think i'd bother with ACC on a Golf though, as it is meant to feel more firm/sporty than the basic models.

Could be good on the larger cars.


I think i'd definitely get ACC with the 19" option on the Golf R, coudl be a pretty hard ride as the MK6 chassis is a fair bit stiffer. Still undecided whether i'd need it on the GTI with 18", probably nice to have.

I'm getting confused stop changing your mind! You remind me of Pauly!

[G-rig]

I'm getting confused stop changing your mind! You remind me of Pauly!

:laugh:.

Just hard to know if you really need it or not.

It would be worth it if you could install lowered springs and maintain the comfort.

[WhiteJames]

Mav ... your worth your weight in gold re: info on the GTI specs & pricing. I spoke my local Audi dealer for a comparison of the Audi A3 Quattro (AWD) -v- MK6 GTI (XDS). He showed me the options list, but didn't say anything about the extra for the xenons. ACC Magnetic was $2400 which is certainly pricey compared to what Volkswagen are offering.

The replacement cost of each headlight - both Halogen and Bi-Xenon - is criminal. How can they justify such a cost?

Having said that, I'm most keen on trying out the Bi-Xenon Headlights and ACC when my ride arrives.

ACC Example:

Firstly; bear in mind I haven't driven the Adaptive Chassis Control GTI.

Outside my local Volkswagen dealer is a pothole that has been half repaired, butted up against a lip in the roadway. Striking this bump with my old MKV GTI with sports KW V3 coilovers on almost full soft had the MKV GTI stiff legged and nuggety. Suprisingly ... when test driving the new Mark 6 GTI with std suspension and 17" wheels, I struck the same half-baked pot-hole and sure enough, the std GTI felt very similar to my KW V3 GTI with H&R sway bars. Even one of the salesmen complained that the dip into the hole was jarring, stiffed legged and nuggety (Salesman Clinton). This type of bump at slow speed refers to the slow-speed compression and overall rebound of the damper setting. Now ...

If I was driving the ACC(DCC) Adaptive Chassis Control damped Mark 6 GTI when I struck the same half-baked pot-hole, the electronics feeding to and from each individual damper would reduce the compression & rebound rate of the damper on that wheel, creating some suppleness ... instead of a stiff-legged, nuggety and jarring ride. ACC would give me suppleness in an instant when I require it; and stiffer agility in an instant, when things become demanding. For instance, when in comfort and having to avoid that wombat or Roo, swerving in comfort will automatically have the ACC (DCC) move the setting into sport when the situation arises ... in the instant that you do require it. Similar thing for that last second overtaking. ACC is your friend all the time, whatever setting you choose - sport, normal or comfort.

Adaptive Chassis Control dampers are being fitted to many of the upmarket rides these days: Everything from BMW M3, HSV GTS, Ferrari's, Maserati, Audi's, whether in magnetic form or electric form. This technology, like Bi-Xenon Headlights, is now available on everyday vehicles (relatively speaking) for reasonable prices. Guys with H&R Sports/Bilstein PSS10/KW V3 would like more comfort at times; other with HPA KW SHS, Tein Euro or Koni FSD/Eibach Prokit would like some more sports control & agility at times, rather than comfort. Edit: Executives are now expecting to have a function that allows them to have a supple ride for everyday use, then a sport setting when things become demanding or for track day blasts. Esp when getting over that 50K $$$ mark. No one wants a stiff legged, jarring, nuggety ride all the time. The manufacturers are catering for the demands of the market.

ACC (DCC) gives you the best of both worlds in an instant or at a touch of the button.

There is always a concern that the changes from Comfort - Normal - Sports is minimal. I beg to differ, from my research. Guys like MOTOR's race driver like Cam McConville are indicating that the Sport mode on the GTI is too firm for everyday use on Aus roadways, as many other reports have also suggested. I think Sport mode has plenty of use for me on certain roadways, but wouldn't want to run Sport mode all the time, as was the case with the aftermarket KW V3 coilovers - great on most of the Pacific Hwy ... not so great on the New England Hwy.

Ride Height:

The Mark 6 is a tad lower than the MKV GTI. About 7-8mm lower at the front and similar at the rear. The Mark 6 GTI will sag 5mm-10mm after @ 12months, making it a tad lower. Not to mention any occupants will also lower the GTI with extra sprung weight. The Golf R is not 25mm lower than the GTI ... its 25mm lower than a regular GTI ... or about 7-8mm lower than the GTI.

Chassis:

Mark 6 GTI chassis is stiffer than the MKV GTI. The extra 40kg of weight has primarily been put into the chassis, if not more as apparently the EA888 motor is slightly lighter than the MKV's EA113 motor. My MKV GTI had leather interior, which I discarded this time around in favour of Bi-Xenon & Park Assist Sensors. The leather (or plastic outers) of the rear seat would creak driving out of my steeply graded horseshoe driveway and up driveway lips. The stiffer suspension, namely the sway bars, was creating some flex in the rear of the chassis, causing the body of the vehicle to move against the leather, making the noise. My friend has a similar problem with his R32. Cloth is much quieter in this repsect, with added comfort and grip as a bonus (still like the MKV GTI cloth seats better). I feel the Mark 6 chassis has less flex than the MKV GTI in the short test drives I have conducted.

Park Sensors/Park Assist:

Other continents have the option of front and rear sensors with auto-dipping mirror for @ $700; and a second option for Park Assist with front & rear sensors & auto-dipping left mirror for $1400. In Aus, we only have the Park Assist Option, otherwise I would opt for just the front and rear factory sensors with auto-dip left mirror.

Cheers
WJ

[pologti18t]

Mav ... your worth your weight in gold re: info on the GTI specs & pricing. I spoke my local Audi dealer for a comparison of the Audi A3 Quattro (AWD) -v- MK6 GTI (XDS). He showed me the options list, but didn't say anything about the extra for the xenons. ACC Magnetic was $2400 which is certainly pricey compared to what Volkswagen are offering.

That (magnetic) system is far more advanced than the system available on the Golf GTI.

[WhiteJames]

Can't see how Magnatec can be that complex. Tiny metal particles in the damper fluid with an electrical current changing viscosity of the fluid. Having said that, not sure how the Adaptive Chassis Control works ... I'm banking on ACC (DCC) having a small electric motor turning a valve with same/similar sensors as the magnatec working out the optimum damper rate in reaction to each bump on each individual wheel.

On the aftermarket front, should you wish to upgrade to a coilover, the wiring within the vehicle is in place if you wanted an electronic adjustable type of PASM Porsche style coilover that is adjustable on the fly from a controller within the vehicle. Sachs may offer an aftermarket coilover that may be a simple plug in substitute ... similar to changing or adding an aftermarket SATNAV system that can be linked to the steering wheel controls.

Another reason to look at ACC, rubbing on lower ride height with slightly wider offset (ET) aftermarket wheels as this thread suggests:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4802420

Question:

Why will this forum not allow me to post attachments?

Do I need any special permission?

Cheers
WJ

[G-rig]

Question:

Why will this forum not allow me to post attachments?

Do I need any special permission?

Cheers
WJ

It doesn't seem to have the option, I was looking for it too.
Just use Imageshack (http://imageshack.us) to host the pics for free.

Cheers,

Ps. Not sure i get the part about lower ride heights or different wheels. Does that guy have ACC and lowered springs?

[WhiteJames]

^He has lowered the vehicle with ET44 BBS wheels and is now considering rolling his guards due to front tyres rubbing with the front quarter panel guards. Vehicle does look good. Too low for my liking. Maybe I'm getting old.

Cheers.
WJ

[G-rig]

So if someone is looking to lower their car I assume you'd give ACC a miss? Or is there likely to be a whole new range of new aftermarket suspension that takes advantage of the new technology?

[Corey_R]

So if someone is looking to lower their car I assume you'd give ACC a miss? Or is there likely to be a whole new range of new aftermarket suspension that takes advantage of the new technology?

I'd presume that there would be new aftermarket suspension taking advantage of these features. It's not like VW are the only ones out there with one of these buttons anymore...

[WhiteJames]

I'd say in time that aftermarket suspension companies would take advantage of the ACC and ACC software and create a similar aftermarket plug in go product. After all, companies like Boge-Sachs, H&R, KYB and Bilstein often supply their products as OEM in various Volkswagen models. ACC would mostly likely be developed by these companies, and tuned by Volkwagen chassis engineers. ACC itself takes away the need to fit aftermarket suspension in the first place.

Lowering is great for looks, but the lower you go, the harder the ride has to be to compensate for the reduced ride height and shorter suspension travel. Not to mention the issues with rubbing tyres on guards and camber change that may require a slight change in wheel alignment (toe-in; reducing turn-in response & crispness).

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

This is another review with a GTI optioned with DCC (Dynamic Chassis Control). Yahoo 'expert' reporter suggests that DCC set to 'Normal' is the only adaptive setting (other than comfort & sport). Adaptive setting is clarified, stating that dampers adapt to driving conditions. This is why some are saying that the DCC option makes the vehicle both more supple or softer, while at the same time not losing anything in dynamic firmness or ability. Read on:

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/29092009/36/volkswagen-golf-gti-0.html


Our test car rode on optional 18-inch wheels, but also featured VW's ACC adaptive chassis system, which adjusts the steering and suspension three ways between Comfort and Sport. The middle 'normal' setting is adaptive, which means it firms up progressively the harder you drive. In its softest setting the steering is light and the ride squishy - though never wallowy - while in Sport the ride and steering are noticeably stiffer, adding an edge of dynamism and feel to cornering. The Golf is never the most engaging car, yet it's much sharper than its day-to-day comfort and usability suggest it will be.

A short drive on smooth roadways may not prove enough of a sample in contrast to the std non-DCC equiped GTI (or Golf or R). During my test drives, I used a favoured little section of roadway in the Royal National Park (RNP) just South of Sydney; basically the short concrete bridge that runs over the Hacking River at the Boat Shed at Audley (for the Sydney folk). The low lying bridge itself is comprised of segreggated squares of concrete with the ends of each square not lining up with each other. The approach to the bridge involves some bumps, esp driving out of the Park entrance up to the nearby toll both. Here, the GTI's I test drove strike a bump coming off the bridge at the same time you negotiate the tight bitumen uphill left hand turn, which unsettles the vehicle on corner entry. No need to be going hard core or anything, but a great short test location for a suspension comparison. While not noticing too much difference on the freeway with the new Mark 6 GTI as opposed to my older MKV GTI with aftermarket suspension, the Boat Shed Bridge drive shows up a lot of difference, esp in agility & handling in 'real world' conditions. Strike this same bump as mention leaving the Koisk towards the Boat on egress out of the park, the MANUAL Mark 6 GTI took a few seconds to regain its composure, forcing a wide line into the corner, missing an early & tight apex. The new Mark 6 GTI DSG was felt slightly better over this short section of roadway and the more overall cohesive package in terms of handling, agility and maintaining a tight line leading up & down to the Boat Shed & Kiosk (firmer front springs from but-o-meter). In comparison, my old Mark V GTI with KW V3 coilovers & small H&R sway bars (front set on soft & rear on hard), dispensed with the same exit off the bridge, over the bump and into the tight left uphill turn, in half the time it took the new Mark 6 GTI. No excess of wallowing or pushing wide ... Simple up & down in a second and on with the job. The near neutral chassis tune of my older MKV GTI did not require any lift off from the throttle to tighten the line ... simply prod the gas & steer into the corner with an unwavering line. On the negative, my old MKV GTI did go about it's business in a cruder manner than the supremely refined new Mark 6 GTI with electronic XDL diff. NVH of the aftermarket KW coil springs were as good if not better than the stock MKV/MKVI suspension, despite the lower ride height. KW V3 were set on almost full soft for rebound and low-speed compression (higher speed compression is fixed-rate from factory).

In a nutshell: If you happen to take the DCC optioned Golf/GTI/R for a test drive, make sure you find some 'real world' challenging routes with plenty of mid corner bumps to gain a greater appreciation of whether its worth the spend or not. A short drive up and down the freeway is not going to explore the damper settings or adaptive chassis damper rate controls to their full extent.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Post # 234 of the WJ Suspension & Wheel Thread has pics & relates to this statement - see link:

On a side issue for prospective MK6 Golf owners that may be considering Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC):

WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com (http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100863)


The pics below are of a white GTI with Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) with aftermarket Eibach ProKit Springs fitted. You may not require shortened dampers for a mild drop of about 10-15mm while running with DCC electronic suspension. In other words, it appears that a 10-15mm drop is still safe enough (apparently) to prevent dampers from bottoming out.

Sexy GTI in the pics below. I'd go for the BBS CH-R wheels with silver lip or OEM MK6 Optional Shadow Volkswagen Lightweight Racing Wheels. Still prefer the KW coilovers rather than Strut style Eibach Prokit Springs, as KW are more linear in spring type & offer better NVH (not KW strut springs though). Also look at H&R OEM Strut type springs for a mild drop (maybe less noisey than Eibach Prokit) or Nuespeed Sports Spring (maybe a tad too soft).


Cheers
WJ

[G-rig]

Are you going to mod your ACC GTI WJ? I don't think I'll touch mine as there are bound to be some side effects ie NVH and not sure if the controller would act the same way etc.

Be ok if lowered springs worked lie OEM and let ACC maintain the comfort through the dampening.

I don't feel that the wheel gap is too bad with the 18" as the look to fill thr area more than my r32 did with stock suspension.

[elisiX]

Do you have any plans to change your wheels though? If not, stock ride height is perfectly fine I think.

Personally, I didn't option ACC because I knew i'd most likely be changing wheels and didn't want any potential issues.

[G-rig]

Nah not changing wheels or suspension on this car, can't be bothered paying labor twice and got ACC so I wouldn't be tempted to.

OEM is good anyway and enjoying the silence and good ride.

[elisiX]

Smart move I think.

I've always modded my cars (other than the Mazda 3) and am keen to do so again.

But I expect to take it relatively easy. Wheels, suspension and tune is plenty.

[Corey_R]

The problem is the suspension and brakes on a GTI and R are already so good, you end up paying $3k+ suspension and $5k+ for brakes to get something better than what's already there! Eek :)

[elisiX]

I certainly would not be bothering with the brakes.

The exhaust might get a closer look :)

YouTube - APR VW GTI MK6 GTI 2.0 TSI 3" RSC Exhaust Compared to Stock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtRMzwosBCw)

30 secs in sounds awesome.

[Maverick]

Do you have any plans to change your wheels though? If not, stock ride height is perfectly fine I think.

Personally, I didn't option ACC because I knew i'd most likely be changing wheels and didn't want any potential issues.

Huh? Have I missed something? What do the wheels have to do with the ride height? The same circumference is retained so it makes no difference what size wheel you fit (17, 18 or 19) as the gap will still be the same.

And why would optioning ACC create issues with aftermarket wheels as long as you fit suitable ones for the car?

[WhiteJames]

The post with the White 3 door DCC equipped GTI was to evidence that a small amount of lowering is possible with DCC. Long term, it’s unknown how DCC will cope with a slight drop in ride height.

Eibach ProKit – A few reasons I wouldn’t be rushing to install a set of progressive strut type aftermarket springs. Noise levels & spring bind would be the two biggest negatives. Progressive strut springs also create a hover craft type of feel with better ride, but a trade off in linear spring rate and driver feel. Progressive rate springs do create a fun factor in the drive with the changing spring rate keeping you guessing as to what the chassis will do. I’d prefer the linearity of the OE springs or the KW coilovers.

If I was to run Eibach ProKit Strut Springs again, I’d mate them with a set of Koni Std Reds or Bilstein Std Blacks (prob Koni for a better ride). KW Comfort Coilover would still be my first choice if I didn’t have DCC. When running the KW V3, friends would comment that when I got in the GTI, the ride height didn’t budge any lower, as would be the case with OE suspension or Eibach ProKit or similar strut type aftermarket spring.

Many owners of HSV GTS Commodores with Magnetic dampers have also managed to lower their rides @ 10-15mm – but not a lot of room to go lower with the HSV Magnatec.

Changing wheels on the MKV and MKVI Golf isn’t a drama so long as they are the same or very close to the OE 50mm offset.

The MK6 GTI sits a little lower than the MKV, esp at the front. Once the springs sag 5mm-10mm over time or you carry a passenger adding weight, or a combination of both, the MK6 GTI will look plenty low enough imo, esp given that the MK6 is designed to look wider & lower.

Me, I’m keeping mine stock as it is reasonably well sorted straight from the factory.


Cheers
WJ

[elisiX]

Huh? Have I missed something? What do the wheels have to do with the ride height? The same circumference is retained so it makes no difference what size wheel you fit (17, 18 or 19) as the gap will still be the same.

And why would optioning ACC create issues with aftermarket wheels as long as you fit suitable ones for the car?

I meant to say changing wheels and suspension. My bad.

So because I am looking into adding PSS10's, it'd be a waste to have bought ACC.

My experience since picking up the car yesterday is that stock suspension with 18's is quite firm, perhaps a little too firm.

ACC would be #1 on my options list next time if I ordered the 18's and had NO PLANS TO CHANGE WHEELS OR SUSPENSION.

Seeing as I would like PSS10's and 19's.. ill still have a firm ride - but it'll look / handle aweeeeeesomeeeeee :D

[Mk6 GTI]

Hi all,

I have had the car for a month now and i say that ACC is worth it.. esp with the 18". If you want to stiffen things up fpr better steering and handling feel sport mode is great. But if your on your way to work and havent slept enough and just want comfort, then comfort mode is great. Normal is good if your not fussed either way.

Well worth it i think for a GTI or above..

:)

[BBP]

Firstly, Adaptive Chassis Control is worth getting because it actually works. There are noticeable differences between all the settings.

Secondly, it is worth getting because, when you consider the technology involved, it is a bargain.

Thirdly, if it means you can't lower the car too much then that has to be a good thing. "Slammed" Golfs look silly and immediately suggest that the owner is yet to mature.

[G-rig]

I think it's quite worthwhile especially with 18" wheels. The MK6 chassis feels a lot stiffer than MK5 so it's a good balance now however i usually leave ACC on the 'normal' setting. It's quite noticeable changing modes on a bumpy road (like the Hornibrook highway going over to redcliffe) and can feel the difference immediately on each setting.

Would be nice if it dropped the ride height as well but does a good job and feels better than the stock R32 suspension.

I also got it so i wouldn't be tempted with after market suspension on this car, as there are always a few sacrifices changing the design and I'm sure the VW engineers do a better job of it.

[gtimal]

Hi
I have only had the car 2 days and I'm very happy I got the ACC with the Detroits .

Cheers

[G-rig]

I should try and test drive a stock one with detroits to see how choppy it is. The 'normal' setting on ACC adjusts 1000 times a second, so think it would be better than the stock setting on a non ACC model.

[elisiX]

If you were in Sydney G you could have a rap in mine mate. :)

I've gotta say that while the 18's are quite firm without ACC, the car is still completely compliant and 100x more comfortable than the Mazda SP23 with stock 17" wheels. It certainly doesn't feel harsh or jumpy on the road at all. In hindsight I wish I opted for ACC simply to tighten things up rather than soften them further.

[gtimal]

Where I live tractors have a bad habit of dropping mud all over the road so hitting the comfort button really helps to smooth out the ride .

Cheers

[G-rig]

If you were in Sydney G you could have a rap in mine mate. :)

I've gotta say that while the 18's are quite firm without ACC, the car is still completely compliant and 100x more comfortable than the Mazda SP23 with stock 17" wheels. It certainly doesn't feel harsh or jumpy on the road at all. In hindsight I wish I opted for ACC simply to tighten things up rather than soften them further.

Yeah I wouldn't usually order too many options as some can be gimmicks, are nice to have but not 100% essential - you got to draw the line somewhere. Having said that enjoying the ride, sports mode is good too on good roads but obviously not as firm handling as after market coilovers and sway bars, it's more the dampening that's firmer and the steering becomes quite heavy.

[ddre78]

For me, ACC was the best option I spec'ed. I wasn't entirely sure how much of a difference it would make, but its huge. I drive in Comfort mode for normal driving, switch to Normal or Sports when im having a go. The ride in comfort mode is excellent.

[G-rig]

I find normal mode is fine, but may use comfort mode on bad roads.
Agree its a good option

[WhiteJames]

DCC – Dynamic Chassis Control


Comparing the older MKV GTI steering –v- the new MK6 GTI steering:


MKV GTI

The MKV GTI’s steering was heavier at low speed than the MK6 GTI. Many professionals would complain that the steering on the MKV GTI was too heavy at car park & low speeds, but weighing up nicely as the speed increased & when loaded up in corners (like an old Ferrari).

MKVI GTI

The new MK6 GTI has steering that is too light at higher speeds. It’s nice to have light steering at car park & very low speeds and in this respect, the lighter steering hits the mark for city driving.


Having driven the 130km from Canberra to Batemans Bay recently, with some of the best tight & medium speed bends in NSW traversing the Clyde Mountain - with Araluen Way down to the township of Araluen (NSW) thrown in for good measure (this roadway has 90 & 100kph speed limits most of the way, with 15-25-35-45kph medium & tight corners leading deep down into a valley) in damp/wet conditions. I’d have to say that the steering on the MK6 GTI is too light in normal mode with DCC.


The chassis of the MK6 GTI feels clinically & nicely taunt sitting flat in bends, with less understeer than the MKV GTI, due to the larger rear 24mm hollow sway bar & XDS electronic diff smoothing out the whole corning process. The steering does not entirely match the chassis tune as speed rises above 60kph during cornering. In corners, the steering wheel refuses to weight up as it did on the older MK5 GTI, failing to provide the ultimate in driver feel & interaction with motor vehicle.


I’m guessing VW lighten up the steering for (1) The diversity of ownership of this product; (2) Americans like light steering (similar thing with the VE Commodore for export – if VE was for Aus only, it’d have firmer steering). American is the largest market for the Golf GTI outside of Europe.


I know on the DCC equipped GTI the steering has resistance added to it at @ 100kph – 110kph – even in Normal mode. This speed is too high for Australian driving conditions & regulations. The DCC should be re-programmed to default into Sport Steering mode at 80kph imo. Australian do not as a general rule travel at Autobahn speeds. The tuning of the steering should be set for local conditions, not European conditions.


The bends on the Kings Highway from Canberra to Batemans Bay on the South Coast of NSW have speed limits of 70-80-90-100kph, where most corners are driven at less than 100kph-110kph, failing to set the steering resistance from normal (too light) to firm (just right for a proper GTI Hatch). This detracted from the driving experience. It would make for a much better drive to have the suspension set on ‘Normal’ and steering set on ‘Sport/Hard’ mode. Unfortunately the damper & steering settings cannot be independently adjusted.

On the return trip from Batemans Bay to Canberra: I played with the DCC settings.

The sport mode firms the steering for a much improved drive; so much so, that for day to day driving, you’d be apt to run the GTI in Sport all the time above 80kph just to have the improved steering feel & heavier steering weight. Around the tight twisties – I’d want to be running the Sport mode for steering only all the time, regardless of speed.


Not sure if the non-DCC MK6 GTI’s steering firms up at speed; I would like to think so. If it doesn’t, it’d be a real travesty for those without DCC – the steering is too dodgem car like when loaded up around tight and flowing corners.


On the smooth single carriageway NSW roads - Sport mode was fantastic: firm & controlled without filtering every single minor undulation of the pimply coarse chip bitumen roadway as aftermarket dampers can often do with too much rebound rate on our rough textured roadways. Sport setting on DCC is certainly a good thing for smooth roadways – highly recommend it.


The changes in damping rate has me thinking that the damper gives half as much compression adjustment as rebound adjustment (0.5/1.0) – no different to any coil over suspension without independent compression & rebound adjustment (Bilstein PSS10 or similar). Compared to winding up the KW-V3 coil over suspension from a quarter to a half – the changes in DCC from – Comfort – Normal – Sport – are slight rather than overwhelming.


Is this good or bad?


Imo, it has proved to be well judged as on longer country drives, small changes in suspension tune make a big difference – sort of like having a rattle that you can tolerate for 40km as opposed to 400km, where it drives you mad after a while (screaming & fighting kids will also drive you mad).


Sometime later:

I conducted another drive from Queanbeyan (NSW) to Captains Flat along Captains Flat Road.


Captains Flat was a booming mining town until the mine was closed many years ago. Now this township is almost a ghost town. The Captains Flat Road has heaps of undulations during its 45km each way journey & is mostly 100kph speed limit. Conditions were damp/wet.


After about 5km on this roadway, I went from Normal mode to Soft mode and it did make a difference.


The Comfort mode allows for greater compliance and absorption of bumps coupled with a greater time to contain vertical movement & a greater wafting over bumps. Comfort mode takes half as much time longer than Normal setting to recompose the MK6 GTI. Although at times the GTI feels as if it will bottom out on Comfort when diving into dips in the roadway, this was never the case.


I ran almost the rest of the 45km journey to Captains Flat in comfort, which felt to be about 5-10% softer than normal mode – still with the lighter feeling steering wheel pressure. Comfort in town does have the MK6 GTI pitching fore & aft versus the Normal mode, making you think the dampers are worn out at times. Alternatively, the MK6 GTI does not lose that sporty GTI feeling – the springs & sway bars still point to the sporting aspect of this vehicle & it’s still ahead of the MKV GTI in the suspension firmness department. The MKV was underdamped - the MK6 GTI is heading to slightly overdamped in Normal mode.


On my return from Captains Flat, while still in the process of running in the GTI with 1100km on the odometer, I tried all three settings:

Comfort – Sport – Normal.


Comfort was best for this type of poor B-grade roadway with no shoulder & sunken edges in some areas (warning signs say - watch for damaged edges of roadway). Reducing the damping only varies one aspect of the suspension tune, with the other two – springs & sway bars – remaining constant. The Comfort mode reduces the vertical movement & takes some of the sharpness out of the chassis, creating a sort of BA Ford Falcon XR6 suppleness & similar to the HPA KW SHS comfort/sports coil over for the MKV GTI/R.


Sport mode induced faster vertical movement with greater force in rebound stroke & added some sharpness & roadway feel. The Sport setting was still liveable on this poor B-grade roadway, but not desirable – esp. after using Comfort mode. DCC on Sport mode is still not has stiff or firm as my old MK5 GTI with KW V3 coil over suspension & aftermarket H&R sway bars. It’s not too far off, within 5% (Aftermarket sway bars, esp. solid bars, really detract from ride comfort). The Sport setting is never stiff legged or jarring as some aftermarket euro suspension kits can be. Over a bridge I drive on, the KW V3 MKv GTI would exhibit pogo effect over short & deep roadways undulations, focussing on the ultimate in suspension control. The MK6 GTI is no where near that controlled in the low speed compression department.


The biggest advantage of having the DCC in Sport mode is the steering weight & feel. At 100kph weaving through the flowing Captain Flat bends, the steering weight & feel was great. The steering in Sport give great incentive to keep the DCC in Sport mode when I should have had the GTI in Comfort or Normal for the crap B-grade roadways.


Normal mode puts the dampers & steering into Sport mode at a certain speed. I haven’t determined the exact speed yet, but it appears to be @ 100kph (+/- 10%). Normal is the best of both worlds. Although I never found any of the three settings stiff legged or nuggetty like sports aftermarket suspension can be. Normal in town does offer more damping control that is tangible to feel. Comfort mode is probably better for under 60kph city driving, although as a sole occupant in the GTI, I’d probably keep the GTI in Normal mode around town as the trade-off in ride comfort is not overwhelming. Comfort would be the go if your carrying passengers - passengers will relish the added comfort. Given time driving on the concrete of Parramatta or Canterbury Roads may change my opinion re: Normal –v- Comfort for Sydney City driving.


An advantage of the ACC - Dynamic Control System is that the driver’s selection is the default setting after switching off the vehicle and turning it back on. Switch it off in comfort, return later to start the GTI up in comfort.


Is DCC worth the $1500 spend? I’d have to say that the fact that you can change the steering and make it harder & firmer is worth @ $800+ alone. This leaves another $700 for the dampers. I also relish the fact that I can make subtle, but notable & worthwhile changes to the dynamics of my Golf GTI within 1-2 seconds on the fly from the driver’s seat. On the MKV GTI with KW V3 coilovers – I had to spend my limited time to drive to the mechanics, put the MKV on the hoist, adjust the suspension, pay a fee for this service, and drive out. Now I do it at the touch of a button.

See pics on other forum site for the Araluen Road & Araluen Valley.

Cheers.
WJ

[REXman]

DCC – Dynamic Chassis Control


Comparing the older MKV GTI steering –v- the new MK6 GTI steering:


MKV GTI

The MKV GTI’s steering was heavier at low speed than the MK6 GTI. Many professionals would complain that the steering on the MKV GTI was too heavy at car park & low speeds, but weighing up nicely as the speed increased & when loaded up in corners (like an old Ferrari).

MKVI GTI

The new MK6 GTI has steering that is too light at higher speeds. It’s nice to have light steering at car park & very low speeds and in this respect, the lighter steering hits the mark for city driving.


Having driven the 130km from Canberra to Batemans Bay recently, with some of the best tight & medium speed bends in NSW traversing the Clyde Mountain - with Araluen Way down to the township of Araluen (NSW) thrown in for good measure (this roadway has 90 & 100kph speed limits most of the way, with 15-25-35-45kph medium & tight corners leading deep down into a valley) in damp/wet conditions. I’d have to say that the steering on the MK6 GTI is too light in normal mode with DCC.


The chassis of the MK6 GTI feels clinically & nicely taunt sitting flat in bends, with less understeer than the MKV GTI, due to the larger rear 24mm hollow sway bar & XDS electronic diff smoothing out the whole corning process. The steering does not entirely match the chassis tune as speed rises above 60kph during cornering. In corners, the steering wheel refuses to weight up as it did on the older MK5 GTI, failing to provide the ultimate in driver feel & interaction with motor vehicle.


I’m guessing VW lighten up the steering for (1) The diversity of ownership of this product; (2) Americans like light steering (similar thing with the VE Commodore for export – if VE was for Aus only, it’d have firmer steering). American is the largest market for the Golf GTI outside of Europe.


I know on the DCC equipped GTI the steering has resistance added to it at @ 100kph – 110kph – even in Normal mode. This speed is too high for Australian driving conditions & regulations. The DCC should be re-programmed to default into Sport Steering mode at 80kph imo. Australian do not as a general rule travel at Autobahn speeds. The tuning of the steering should be set for local conditions, not European conditions.


The bends on the Kings Highway from Canberra to Batemans Bay on the South Coast of NSW have speed limits of 70-80-90-100kph, where most corners are driven at less than 100kph-110kph, failing to set the steering resistance from normal (too light) to firm (just right for a proper GTI Hatch). This detracted from the driving experience. It would make for a much better drive to have the suspension set on ‘Normal’ and steering set on ‘Sport/Hard’ mode. Unfortunately the damper & steering settings cannot be independently adjusted.

On the return trip from Batemans Bay to Canberra: I played with the DCC settings. The sport mode firms the steering for a much improved drive; so much so, that for day to day driving, you’d be apt to run the GTI in Sport all the time above 80kph just to have the improved steering feel & heavier steering weight. Around the tight twisties – I’d want to be running the Sport mode for steering only all the time, regardless of speed.


Not sure if the non-DCC MK6 GTI’s steering firms up at speed; I would like to think so. If it doesn’t, it’d be a real travesty for those without DCC – the steering is too dodgem car like when loaded up around tight and flowing corners.


On the smooth single carriageway NSW roads - Sport mode was fantastic: firm & controlled without filtering every single minor undulation of the pimply coarse chip bitumen roadway as aftermarket dampers can often do with too much rebound rate on our rough textured roadways. Sport setting on DCC is certainly a good thing for smooth roadways – highly recommend it.


The changes in damping rate has me thinking that the damper gives half as much compression adjustment as rebound adjustment (0.5/1.0) – no different to any coil over suspension without independent compression & rebound adjustment (Bilstein PSS10 or similar). Compared to winding up the KW-V3 coil over suspension from a quarter to a half – the changes in DCC from – Comfort – Normal – Sport – are slight rather than overwhelming.


Is this good or bad?


Imo, it has proved to be well judged as on longer country drives, small changes in suspension tune make a big difference – sort of like having a rattle that you can tolerate for 40km as opposed to 400km, where it drives you mad after a while (screaming & fighting kids will also drive you mad).


Sometime later:
I conducted another drive from Queanbeyan (NSW) to Captains Flat along Captains Flat Road.


Captains Flat was a booming mining town until the mine was closed many years ago. Now this township is almost a ghost town. The Captains Flat Road has heaps of undulations during its 45km each way journey & is mostly 100kph speed limit. Conditions were damp/wet.


After about 5km on this roadway, I went from Normal mode to Soft mode and it did make a difference.


The Comfort mode allows for greater compliance and absorption of bumps coupled with a less long time to contain vertical movement & a greater wafting over bumps. Comfort mode takes half as much time over & above Normal setting to recompose the MK6 GTI. Although at times the GTI feels as if it will bottom out on Comfort when diving into dips in the roadway, this was never the case.


I ran almost the rest of the 45km journey in comfort, which felt to be about 5-10% softer than normal mode – still with the lighter feeling steering wheel pressure. Comfort in town does have the MK6 GTI pitching fore & aft versus the Normal mode, making you think the dampers are worn out at times. Alternatively, the MK6 GTI does not lose that sporty GTI feeling – the springs & sway bars still point to the sporting aspect of this vehicle & it’s still ahead of the MKV GTI in the suspension firmness department.


On my return from Captains Flat, while still in the process of running in the GTI with 1100km on the odometer, I tried all three settings: Comfort – Sport – Normal.


Comfort was best for this type of poor B-grade roadway with no shoulder & sunken edges in some areas (warning signs say - watch for damaged edges of roadway). Reducing the damping only varies one aspect of the suspension tune, with the other two – springs & sway bars – remaining constant. The Comfort mode reduces the vertical movement & takes some of the sharpness out of the chassis, creating a sort of BA Ford Falcon XR6 suppleness & similar to the HPA KW SHS comfort/sports coil over for the MKV GTI/R.


Sport mode induced faster vertical movement with greater force in rebound stroke & added some sharpness & roadway feel. The Sport setting was still liveable on this poor B-grade roadway, but not desirable – esp. after using Comfort mode. DCC on Sport mode is still not has stiff or firm as my old MK5 GTI with KW V3 coil over suspension & aftermarket H&R sway bars. It’s not too far off, within 5% (Aftermarket sway bars, esp. solid bars, really detract from ride comfort). The Sport setting is never stiff legged or jarring as some aftermarket euro suspension kits can be.


The biggest advantage of having the DCC in Sport mode is the steering weight & feel. At 100kph weaving through the flowing Captain Flat bends, the steering weight & feel was great. The steering in Sport give great incentive to keep the DCC in Sport mode when I should have had the GTI in Comfort or Normal for the crap B-grade roadways.


Normal mode puts the dampers & steering into Sport mode at a certain speed. I haven’t determined the exact speed yet, but it appears to be @ 100kph (+/- 10%). Normal is the best of both worlds. Although I never found any of the three settings stiff legged or nuggetty like sports aftermarket suspension can be. Normal in town does offer more damping control that is tangible to feel. Comfort mode is probably better for under 60kph city driving, although I’d probably keep the GTI in Normal mode around town as the trade-off in ride comfort is not overwhelming. Given time driving on the concrete of Parramatta or Canterbury Roads may change my opinion re: Normal –v- Comfort for Sydney City driving.


An advantage of the ACC - Dynamic Control System is that the driver’s selection is the default setting after switching off the vehicle and turning it back on. Switch it off in comfort, return later to start the GTI up in comfort.


Is DCC worth the $1500 spend? I’d have to say that the fact that you can change the steering and make it harder & firmer is worth @ $800+ alone. This leaves another $700 for the dampers. I also relish the fact that I can make subtle, but notable & worthwhile changes to the dynamics of my Golf GTI within 1-2 seconds on the fly from the driver’s seat. On the MKV GTI with KW V3 coilovers – I had to spend my limited time to drive to the mechanics, put the MKV on the hoist, adjust the suspension, pay a fee for this service, and drive out. Now I do it at the touch of a button.

See pics on this site for the Araluen Road & Araluen Valley.

Cheers.
WJ

Great write up.

[gtimal]

Great write up.

+1 on WJ's right up .

Cheers

[G-rig]

Great write up WJ, glad to hear you think its worthwhile. I haven't tested at what speed the steering gets heavier but dont mind sports mode either, and most roads are quite good up here. The steering may be a little heavy in sports mode for parking and slow driving but worth it over 60kmph.

[ddre78]

Thanks for taking the time to get that up WJ.

[WhiteJames]

Further info on DCC:

I may have led you guys astray on the previous WJ post.
Please allow me to clarify now that I have some additional miles sampling the DCC – Adaptive Chassis Control on the Mark 6 Golf GTI.

Route:

Bungendore – Tarago – Goulburn – Sydney.

Distance: 300km.

Types of roadways:

Dual carriageway (bitumen & concrete); good & medium B’grade single lane country tourist routes. Nothing as bad as Captains Flat Road.

Clarification:

I mentioned earlier that the steering in the Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) equipped Golf GTI firms up at speed. This appears true for both ‘Comfort’ and ‘Normal’ settings.

The misinformation was that the steering in ‘Normal’ setting was put into ‘Sport’ mode by default at a certain speed (100kph @ +/- 10%).

This is not correct.

The DCC ‘Sport’ mode puts greater weight on the steering than ‘Normal’ mode. Sport mode steering is an entirely different weight to ‘Normal’ mode when driven at speed. Travelling on dual carriageway at 110kph it is now clearly evident that DCC put into ‘Sport’ mode puts the steering weight into another league – the extra weight is tangible.

The steering weight at 110kph in either ‘Comfort’ or ‘Normal’ settings is the same – it’s just the damping rate that changes, quickening or slowing the compression & rebound response times of the chassis.


Sport – Comfort – Normal:

DCC in Sport showed that the electronic steering wheel has greater resistance on your arms & hands and as a result, your body tends to firm up as extra physical effort is required to be applied to manoeuvre the Golf GTI around bends. The tenser state of body results in hustling the GTI a bit quicker than you normally would, well on the 110kph freeway anyway – it’s like a mind –v- body thing, but in reverse. Sport mode with the extra steering weight and tighter control of chassis movements, including less body roll, is very confidence inspiring at higher freeway speeds.


Sports mode brings the driver closer to the track car feeling, providing the roadway is smooth. Despite what the professional journalist state, the Mark 6 GTI still carries some slight to mild understeer, with the electronic XDS diff taking care of any incorrect steering movements or corner entry speeds – also makes a more clinical type of driving experience.


‘Sport’ mode contains the GTI chassis movements, reducing understeer, as the GTI chassis does not lean as hard or as much on the front outside tyre. The reduction in understeer with DCC in Sport is really noticeable at higher speeds, creating a greater sense of control from the driver’s perspective. This was really a highlight of the Dynamic Chassis Control system.


If you’re looking for the ultimate in a neutral chassis tune – better look towards a set of H&R adjustable solid aftermarket sway bars, if you’re not too concerned with ride comfort (not sure how aftermarket sway bars & XDS will work together). Me, I wouldn’t bother as a bit of slight to mild understeer is good for a street vehicle.


DCC in Sport constantly reminds you that DCC is in Sport setting, unlike ‘Comfort’ setting where it’s easy to forget that you left the GTI in ‘Comfort’. After about 3-4 bumps I think, “Damn Sport mode.”

Alternatively: after driving for 15 minutes only to look down at the console & find I’ve forgotten the GTI is riding in ‘Comfort’ mode. Comfort may not be good for driver attention as the better ride comfort allows your mind to wonder from the task at hand – Sport mode keeps you focussed after every damper compression with the GTI bobbing up & down over the minor road surface irregularities.


Normal mode suspension setting also reminds you that you have purchased a GTI and can also be annoying on not so good B-grade country roadways. Normal setting also suggests that the non-DCC std GTI suspension is about as firm as you’d want for country touring on single lane roadways, concrete freeway or for city suburban commuting. The non-DCC MK6 GTI is almost at the point of having a tad too much rebound damping in respect to the spring rate.


Concrete freeways are the enemy of sport aftermarket suspension kits & large diameter/low profile wheel/tyre combinations. Concrete roadways tend to have small troughs & peaks in waves that make themselves apparent in Normal and Sport mode with DCC. Comfort mode helps in this regard, but does cause some loss of confidence with the wafting ride & less chassis body control. Sport mode works a treat on smooth bitumen, which tends to be flatter & softer and more 18” Detroit wheel/tyre friendly.


In town: Driving on roadways around my home suburb on Sydney’s South Coast – Comfort was the pick of the three modes. Comfort does feel a bit vague around town, but does a fine job of isolating minor low speed compression bumps that are so ubiquitous in Sydney. The GTI also dives & squats a little when stopping & starting, which is eliminated with the other two settings.


Normal transmitted a bit too much information & vertical movement into the cabin. Sport was not really an option for putting around the burbs. Having said that, the Normal and Sport settings in town are tolerable – but just not desirable, esp. if you have passengers on board.


It’s important to note that hard suspension ride improves at higher speeds when bumps are struck with greater velocity. Softer suspension rides better at low speeds, but tends to lose composure at higher speeds.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

On a tangent to this thread:

While breaking-in the GTI, I stopped by the Marulan Driver Training Centre , Marulan South (MDTC), to check out the handling course & have a yarn with its owner, motor sport identity Gary Willmington.

The MDTC is a fantastic course. Gary Willmington used very small pebbles in the bitumen to make it super smooth – he also built in on/off camber, sometimes in the one turn with a few rises, dips & bumps thrown in to help replicate a public roadway.

The smoother asphalt, low speed tight corners, short straights and flowing nature of the course doesn’t kill the tyres, making for a cheaper day out for those looking to improve their skills on a budget. Gary reckons tyre wear on this course is way less than than Wakefield Park or Eastern Creek Raceway.

Highly recommend taking any sort of driving course & believe a basic & advance course should be mandatory for learner & provisional drivers. MDTC could be a good fore-runner to taking on Wakefield Park, then the superfast Eastern Creek Circuit - build your skills up in stages.

See link to MDTC:

Marulan Driver Training Centre | Home (http://www.mdtc.com.au/index.html)

Racing Car Driver Gary Willmington gives the GTI the thumbs up ... see pic in WJ S&W Thread.

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

New MK6 –v- Old MK5:
The Mark 6 GTI has 4 improvements over the MKV GTI. The hollow rear anti-roll bar on the MK6 is 2mm larger at 24mm. Secondly – EDL which apportions torque to the outside loaded wheel/tyre coupled with XDS electronic diff that applies the brake to reduce understeer at higher speeds – most people called both XDS, although EDL works at lower speeds and XDS at higher speeds. There is no need for concern about the brake heating up or wearing out with XDS as there is a sensor that switches off the brake/traction control should this occur (i.e. track use, hill climb, mountain pass). Thirdly – slightly higher front spring rate which compensates to a degree for the upgraded rear anti-roll bar. The front anti-roll bar is the same for both the MK6 and MK5. Fourthly, extra damping rate front & rear. Lastly: The MK6 has some extra chassis stiffness over the MK5 GTI.

Changes in the MK6 cause the GTI to corner flatter than the MK5 GTI. The MK5 would roll onto it’s outside front tyre with positive camber change, scrubbing & tearing the outside of the tyre out. The larger rear anti-roll bar in cohort with the stiffer front springs has made a reduction in understeer on the MK6 GTI. The steering wheel on the MK6 requires less effort & stabs at it to corner and the GTI feels closer to the Aussie offerings of the Falcon/Commodore in terms of amount of understeer (although with no power oversteer). Steering around bends on the MK6 has a greater fluidity about it, with the driver being able to make a smoother arc around a bend.

The MKV GTI/R32 was harder work in this regard when pressing on. Leaving the front sway bar the same size as the MKV GTI and upping the spring rate allows for greater independence of the front wheels of the MK6 GTI, improving grip levels of each wheel over irregular surfaces – in additional to EDL and XDS.

When the MK6 GTI feels like understeering, the EDL/XDS diff steps in to pull the GTI into the corner, taking the driver out of the equation to a degree. The experience leaves the driver thinking, ‘what just happened? Am I missing a couple of seconds of driving?”

Driving up steep tight bends, such as those found in Kangaroo Valley, inland of Wollongong, NSW – I noticed that the MK6 GTI does not spin the inside front wheel. Even at slow speeds, the inside wheel has less distance to travel around a bend than the outside wheel, causing the inside wheel to spin up at any speed. The lack of wheel spin in this type of driving would be attributable to the XDS electronic diff applying slight & imperceptible brake pressure to the inside wheel to stop it from losing traction in addition to forcing the torque to the outside wheel.

Note that although the GTI doesn’t feel like an AWD R32 or Tiguan – grip levels are enhanced considerably on the MK6 front wheel drive GTI. In 1500km of wet weather driving, I haven’t seen the traction control light appear – even when driving in the wet uphill through valleys.

Given that driving around a tight corner, you’d expect the inside wheel to spin up to a small degree as the outside wheel has to travel further around a larger arc, causing the inside wheel to unload. Not the case so far in the MK6 GTI. Bear in mind driving & throttle application have been gentle to date. The MK6 is definitely an improvement over the MK5 for ease of driving & grips levels.

Cheers
WJ

[hooba]

Keep posting about your experiences and adventures WJ, I love reading them.

[WhiteJames]

Which is the better drive?

The new MK6 GTI (DCC) –v- The old MK5 (KW V3/H&R)?


City:

Around town the Mark 6 DCC equipped GTI wins hands down. Being able to select ‘Comfort’ mode around town on the fly offer more comfort than either of the two aftermarket kits (Eibach/FSD – KW V3) on the old MKV GTI.

DCC in ‘Normal’ mode is similar to the Eibach/FSD combo and DCC ‘Sport’ mode gives firmer damping than the Eibach/Prokit package about the same spring rate (hard to compare progressive –v- linear OE springs).

KW V3 was in another league of firmness regarding damping & spring rates and not ideal for a daily cruiser imo.


Freeway:

DCC Mark 6 GTI wins by a very slight margin on freeway (more so concrete freeways) in a tightly fought contest. DCC has ‘Comfort’ for even concrete freeway joints and ‘Sport’ for the smooth bitumen. In other words, the DCC wins on its adjustability and ease of adjustability.

DCC also wins in the steering department with the steering being able to be firmed up considerably in ‘Sport’ mode. When heavier Sport mode steering is mated with the harder Sport damper setting with some factory induced understeer that is okay at higher freeway speeds, the MK6 DCC GTI feels very good indeed – confident, inspiring & reassuring at higher speeds. The MK6 GTI steering on Comfort and Normal modes is feels lighter than the MKV GTI steering. Steering on Sport mode is firmer than the MKV GTI/Comfort/Normal by a good margin.

The KW V3 would come in second place due to the higher linear cone shaped spring rate not suffering in ride comfort on smooth roadways as it does in the city or on terrible B’grade tarmac. This kit also offer supreme control, but can be firm & very telegraphic of roadway imperfections, even on smooth freeways.

Eibach/Koni FSD lagging behind in third place due to the hovercraft initial softness of the progressive rate strut springs, initial overdamping earlier in the spring compression rate and less overall chassis control. The Eibach Prokit/FSD combo can lean heavily on its outside front wheels compared to the MK6 DCC and KW V3 coil over.


B-Grade Roadway:

Eibach Prokit/Koni FSD (or rather HPA KW SHS coil over) wins on the bad side of the B-grade roadway. The Koni FSD damper has it’s high speed compression setting giving a softer ride than the DCC in ‘Comfort’ mode. From Comfort – Normal – Sport the DCC modes vary slightly, but notably after being driven for extended periods of time. Changes in damping rates is nothing like turning up a KW V3 from 10% - 50% damping rate; where at 50% the KW V3 does not appear to move under harder braking, race car style.

I would not opt for the Eibach Prokit/Koni FSD kit due to the excessive noise of spring bind that they exhibit - Not on a 50 grand vehicle; although ProKit/FSD does offer supreme ride over harsh B-grade routes like Captains Flat Road (Go the HPA Motorsport KW SHS coil over or KW Comfort coil over instead for better NVH & linear front spring rates).


DCC comes in at second position as it does not soften up sufficiently enough to match the trademark Koni FSD carpet type of ride on rougher B’grade bitumen. The DCC suspension offers damper valving more in line with Sachs/H&R suspension (I think they are made by Boge-Sachs).

The sport focussed KW V3 being a distant third place (even when on almost full soft adjustment) as the slow speed compression is still firmer than the DCC in Sport, although high speed compression is somewhere between DCC - Normal to Sport - mode.


Tourist Drive:

The MKV GTI with the KW Variant 3 coil over and H&R sway bars is the better drive than the MK6 DCC GTI. The lower ride height, stiffer springs & damping is a factor, but not the biggest factor in the KW V3 win. The aftermarket H&R solid adjustable anti-roll bars with front on soft and rear on hard made the old MKV GTI near neutral in chassis tune. Nothing beats a near neutral chassis tune for the ultimate in driver connection & satisfaction. The KW V3 – H&R aftermarket kit makes for a fantastic drive, providing the tourist route is a reasonably smooth roadway (wet weather excepted).

The MK6 DCC GTI on ‘Sport’ setting with XDS electronic diff simply doesn’t provide the thrills & driver involvement that the old MKV KW V3/H&R GTI did. The KW V3 with H&R sway bars was more fluid to drive with a direct feel. Hustling the KW V3/H&R MKV GTI was a breeze on dry roadways.

When the XDS on the Mark 6 intervenes to tighten the vehicles line, the KW V3 with H&R sway bars would often be in trail braking lift off oversteer with the chassis turning from it’s central axis like a downhill skier. This makes for a more engaging drive, but at times unnerving when you find yourself steering in the opposite direction on corner entry. The KW V3/H&R MKV GTI, although inert under 7/10ths, really delivered from when leaned on from 8/10ths onwards.

Disadvantages of the KW V3 coil over suspension kit is that, like many sports biased suspension kits, they can be stiffed legged around town & on harsher B’grade roadways, sometimes pogo over high frequency undulations and be harsher when striking uneven concrete joints. With the KW V3 sports coil over kit – there certainly was a tangible trade-off in comfort for sports handling.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

With a view to the breaking-in of the TSI motor, the GTI was taken for a run out from Sydney to Bathurst and Mount Panorama.

Additional time was spent sampling the different modes of the Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC).

The trip to Bathurst allowed some time to lean on the chassis through some nice flowing 60kph - 80kph bends in addition to driving on a variety of roadways and roadway textures in dry conditions with the temperature ranging from 8.0 degrees Celsius to 20 degree Celsius.

1. DCC Sport:

DCC in Sport mode as the default setting for motorways: M4, M5 and M7. With exception of the motorways, about 1/3 of the trip could be driven in Sport mode. The majority single lane highway was smooth enough to allow for this, as was the Mount Panorama. Sport mode also became the preferred setting for tight bends running through the great dividing mountain range. The GTI really began to impress with the chassis sitting flat, with the larger rear anti-roll bar and EDL/XDS making a notable reduction in understeer in the mountain bends. This is the first completely dry day that the GTI has driven in – the earlier drives were in wet or damp roadway conditions. I did get caught out on in Sport mode on a section of rutted roadwork that was initially not pleasant until I managed to fumble out Comfort mode. On smoother roadways and travelling around 100kph and above, the Sport mode is the setting to have, keeping the GTI firmly planted to the roadway, especially when it came to overtaking slow moving vehicles. The firmer Sport mode steering also assists in this regard as the steering is more direct and requires less driver input to achieve the same or better result than the two softer modes. Sport mode did offer too heavy steering for suburban roundabouts; the heavy Sport steering improves with speed.


2. DCC Normal:

The in-between Normal mode was chosen for 1/3 of the country drive. This was for when Sport was too punishing and Comfort felt too loose and uncontrolled. Steering could still do with a tad more weight in Normal. All roadways being equal in smoothness & texture, Normal mode is good for speeds between 60kph and 100kph. At lower speeds the damping can be a tad firm, with Normal at higher speeds not as confidence inspiring or stable as Sport.

3. DCC Comfort:

Comfort was the default setting for Bathurst City. This country city had rough roadways in the centre of town, which had me thinking about ditching the 18” Detroit Wheels for 17” Denver in addition to running DCC permanently in Comfort mode. In Normal mode in Bathurst CBD, the relationship with the GTI was becoming strained with the GTI being to feel nuggetty & stiff legged: GTI + Normal Mode + 18” Wheels = Too Firm for Bathurst Country. Comfort mode was also the default for any road works encountered along the way and was used intermittently throughout 1/3 of the trip when the roadway quality deteriorated or was very undulating. The low-speed compression and rebound of Comfort mode in riding over a series of continuous bitumen patchwork along was fantastic – not quite a carpet smooth Koni ride, but not far off on the Great Western Highway . All roadways being equal – Comfort mode is great at speeds under 70kph – but any more than 70kph and comfort does compromise handling, agility and steering with less vertical body control , chassis roll in corners exhibiting extra understeer over Normal or Sport– this does rob the driver of some confidence.


Result:

On a trip from Sydney to Bathurst and return – each setting was used for about 1/3 of the time (M4, M5 and M7 excepted).


Other Issues:

The B-pillar plastic strip around the seat belt strap holder has developed a squeaking noise, which was also a problem with the old MKV GTI. A plastic rubbing against plastic type of sound. Disappointing that Volkswagen did not correct this. Some noise could also be coming from the base of the passenger’s front seat.

Oil Temperature ranged from 93 degrees to 105 degrees for the duration of this drive.

Fuel consumption was 6.9 litres per 100km – already better than the MKV GTI.

The Mark 6 GTI requires 38 psi in the Bridgestone RE050A tyres – the old Mark 5 GTI only required 35-36psi (extra weight of the MK6).

Don’t miss the leather interior at all – money well spent on Bi-Xenon’s & Park Assist. Cloth has added support & comfort.

The exhaust scavenging resonating sound between 2400rpm-2500rpm was heard intermittently on this trip. The rougher coarse chip bitumen drowns out the hissing sound. The resonation is easy to hear when driving around Mount Panorama that is bordered by concrete walls.

At sea level with humid air, the Mark 6 GTI feels sluggish. At higher altitude with cool dry air, the GTI feels more powerful with greater crispness to acceleration.

The GTI does have a hint of torque-steer, esp. in the higher gears (3-6) and compared to the MKV GTI. This suggests to me that more than 280Nm of torque is being put through the front wheels – perhaps more like @ 300Nm.

Old EA113 Mark 5 GTI motor felt more crisp and linear, esp. off boost. New EA888 Audi developed TSI motor in the Mark 6 GTI has greater punch in the mid-range, but feels slightly retarded in spark timing (maybe due to being 95RON compatible instead of 98RON).

Bathurst’s Mount Panorama always has the element of the unknown – like coming across an EMU on approach to Skyline on top of the hill.

See images of Bathurst on W&J Suspension Thread:



Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - Page 12 - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com (http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100863&page=12)

[giddleberry]

Keep up the good work WJ.

I'm ordering with ACC now, maybe VWA should start paying you a commission...

[REXman]

Wj that was a great read. Love your work.

[gtimal]

I have clocked up 1200K's in 10 days and 90% of it has been in the Comfort setting ,the other 10% has been in Sport mode with the DSG in sport mode as well .
I'm very pleased with ACC and when spring & summer comes around and the tractors stop dropping mud on the road I might be able to have the Sport mode selected 90% of the time .

Cheers

[WhiteJames]

There are a few additional observations I’ve made with the Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) on the Mark 6 GTI.


Weather Conditions:


DCC in Sport mode offers a good drive in dry conditions where the roadway offers maximum grip levels. DCC Sport mode keeps the GTI sitting flatter & harder, offering the maximum possible grip by pushing the tyre harder & faster into the tarmac with extra rebound/compression damping & preventing any additional positive camber roll of the tyres. When roadway conditions turn damp or wet, changing the DCC from Sport to Normal or Comfort mode offers additional chassis compliance & body roll that is helpful when grip levels deteriorate – helps the driver feel their way around the chassis of the Golf in low grip situations. Riding in Sport mode makes the GTI chassis less forgiving in damp conditions, with the threshold of grip to slip occurring in a slightly more abrupt manner, leaving less room for driver error. In dry conditions – harder damping of Sport is great. Wet or damp conditions favour a softer tune of Normal or Comfort offering a more forgiving nature to the chassis tune.


Driver Fatigue:


Another observation is that when running DCC in the harder Sport setting for several hours - sometimes the driver may prefer to relax a little at the steering wheel. The steering does firm up considerably. Changing the DCC setting from the harder Sport setting with firm steering resistance to Normal or Comfort mode, which offers lighter steering resistance, puts the driver at ease on longer trips. Being able to change the feel of the Golf from sport to a relaxed setting is a bonus – sort of like having the earlier MKV Golf GTI steering, only firmer for when you want Sporty driving; and Toyota Camry style light steering for relaxed carefree cruising.


Sydney - Metropolitan Driving:


The first drive in Sydney Metro area with the Mark 6 GTI + DCC was conducted this week. I was keen to take the Golf GTI onto Canterbury Road to compare how the GTI rode crap Sydney suburban roadways between Canterbury and Bankstown in comparison to my old MKV GTI with KW V3 aftermarket sports coil over suspension & H&R aftermarket sway bars. The speed limit on Canterbury Road is generally 60kph.


I’ve read articles stating that the damping rate is - speed - roadway – driving style - sensitive. I’d agree with this. The steering resistance appears to firm up as speed increases – which I knew. The DCC damper mode in Normal gives a nice blend of ride & control on the freeways & B-grade roadways at higher speeds as does a standard Mark 6 GTI without DCC optioned. Based on my last MKV KW V3 GTI ride, I was anticipating that DCC Normal mode on Canterbury Road would ride too firmly with far too many roadway imperfections transmitted through the chassis causing the cabin to bob up & down making my journey less comfortable.


Normal mode rode fantastically on Canterbury Road– so much so – DCC was put into Sport mode – which still provided an adequately comfortable ride at 40kph - 60kph. This was paradoxical to what I was expecting based on my old Mark 5 KW V3 GTI. Out on the tourist routes / highway / freeway with higher speed limits, DCC Sport mode offers something closer to the rebound & compression rates to the KW V3 on full soft settings.


In contrast, the KW V3 coil over suspension rode like an beatch on Canterbury Road – esp. the concrete sections near Bankstown (18” huff wheels didn’t help either). Frequent city drives on this roadway in the old MKV GTI had me opting to replace the KW V3 coil over suspension with the softer tuned HPA Motorsport KW Street Handling System (SHS) for the old MKV GTI just prior to selling it to make way for the new Mark 6 GTI (KW now offer KW Street Comfort Coilover for the MK6 Golf).


In terms of Dynamic Chassis Control being speed & roadway sensitive – DCC allows you use Sport setting at a variety of speeds, making the Mark 6 GTI with DCC a much more liveable & likeable motor vehicle for day to day use. The aftermarket coil over suspension was a fantastic drive out on the open roadways, but compromised low speed comfort for handling in the inner metro areas with a stiff legged and nuggetty ride. I’m liking this new Mark 6 GTI much more than the MKV GTI as it offers the best blend of both worlds in terms of sports handling & ride comfort in the one vehicle. The steering in Comfort or Normal is also better suited for the daily grind of peak hour traffic – the heavier Sport steering is the pick for the tourist routes – highway – mountain climbs - until the novelty of a sporty style of driving wears off or driver fatigue occurs.


Cheers
WJ

[Leagle]

Hey White James, ever thought about a professional career as a motoring journo?

[WhiteJames]

DCC is always put into sport mode for mountain climbs and is the default setting for the tight twisting routes. DCC provides a flatter ride, less understeer, and more direct - reactive - firmer - weightier - steering that requires less input from the driver when negotiating the roadway from tight bend to tight bend.

Many others say DCC in Sport setting is only good for a speed greater than 80kph in regards to steering weight & reactivity – I’d agree, but with the exception that DCC Sport is also default setting for the tight twisting bends, provided the roadway texture is reasonably good.

The steering resistance does increase in every mode as speed rises – this also includes Sport mode, but does not feel as pronounced a change as is the case with Comfort/Normal modes. All modes feel lighter at car park speeds – Comfort/Normal modes considerably lighter in weight & resistance than Sport mode at very low speed.

In city commuting, and referring to demo non-DCC equipped GTI riding on 17” rubber that I had for half a day test drive - the DCC GTI riding on 18” wheels very rarely feels underdamped when striking city irregularities. The demo non-DCC on the same routes had me wanting extra compression & rebound rate in the dampers on certain sections of roadway. The DCC version has the electronics adjusting the damping rate continuously to all but eliminate any feeling of inadequate damping rate. This ensures that the ride on DCC is always controlled and that the chassis sits flat and undisturbed, while at the same time, providing for a subtle ride. In other words: DCC is providing an improvement in handling and comfort at the same time – not an easy thing to achieve with conventional suspension set-ups.

The ride of the previous MKV GTI on similar roadways with aftermarket KW V3 coilover suspension on almost full soft & H&R sway bars was nuggetty and stiff legged at very low speeds offering a very brittle feeling on 18” huffs. There seemed to be no way to eliminate the old Mark 5 GTI of that brittle feeling. The sensation of a brittle ride is never the case with DCC on the new Mark 6 GTI, despite the Mark 6 DCC GTI also riding 18” wheels. This makes me very happy.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Just want to add this link re:

Magnatec -v- Dynamic Chassis Control.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f112/acc-vs-audi-magnetic-ride-46153.html

Magnatec is the choice for Ferrari, Audi and HSV.
Dynamic Chassis Control is the pick for Volkswagen, Opel.

Some useful links in this thread.

Cheers.
WJ

[Prodigy]

I've been wondering for a while whether i made the right choice in not ordering ACC in my R (I know it's too late now) but reading a lot of this makes me think i should of. Unfortunately neither of the cars i test drove had this option fitted and to be honest i thought the ride on the 19's was smoother and more compliant than my WRX with it's 18's and Whiteline lowered springs.

I guess as long as i don't drive one with ACC i won't know any different when my car arrives and hopefully will be happy with the standard ride.

I wonder how many other people with R's/Gti's on order decided against ticking the ACC option.

[simonm]

I wonder how many other people with R's/Gti's on order decided against ticking the ACC option.

The two main reasons I ordered ACC are partly because I like gadgets, but mostly because I wanted the comfort mode to optimise the Wife Acceptance Factor when seeking purchase approval. :)

Which is also one of the reasons I didn't order the 19s (harder ride, more expensive rubber over the life of the car, I like the silver headlights with the Rising Blue, and I once came back to my WRX after dinner out to find it up on bricks with no wheels - only had standard rims, was in a busy, well lit multi storey carpark, and it kind of ruined my night. Not really interested in any wheels that might be considered more attractive!)

[Cossor]

, and I once came back to my WRX after dinner out to find it up on bricks with no wheels - only had standard rims, was in a busy, well lit multi storey carpark, and it kind of ruined my night. Not really interested in any wheels that might be considered more attractive!)

So that's why VW have anti theft wheel bolts!

[Corey_R]

Which is also one of the reasons I didn't order the 19s (harder ride, more expensive rubber over the life of the car, I like the silver headlights with the Rising Blue
Yep I agree with all 3 of those points, plus to add to that, if you are actually serious about driving, the 19" rims will be slower around a track due to them being heavier and having less sidewall height and therefore offer worse handling. In fact, with the GTI, the std 17" wheels are faster around a track than the 18" Detroits, so the 19" Talladega's are only going to be even further in the wrong direction!

[hooba]

In fact, with the GTI, the std 17" wheels are faster around a track than the 18" Detroits, so the 19" Talladega's are only going to be even further in the wrong direction!

You got numbers or testing to back this up, or is it just theory being used to arrive to a conclusion? :cool:

[Corey_R]

Yeah... numbers from a car review in Australia somewhere. There was a link on this forum in one of the threads.... argh. Do a search ;)

Edit:
Here you go (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f112/18-detroit-alloys-41844-2.html). It's a link to the 18" Detroit's thread on this forum where they were discussion the results of an Evo UK magazine comparison of the GTI with 17" vs 18" wheels with the same tyre brand. 2.5 seconds improvement around a track which only takes 60 seconds to lap is pretty decent!

Also, Top Gear Australia has shown that tyres with lower profiles don't always mean better lap times either (HSV with 22" wheels vs 20" wheels for example). In addition to this, you have basically every racing series in the world using higher profiles than we commonly use on "performance cars" on the roads. F1, Indycar, Nascar, V8 Supercars etc etc etc. Admittedly these days they all have regulated wheel sizes, they were regulated at the sizes they are after many years of teams being able to find their own balance and coming to their conclusions... tyres are an integral part of your suspension system, so although having huge sidewalls means sloppy performance, once you get to a certain point, reducing the sidewall further negatively impacts dampening/rebound and thus grip.

[hooba]

Yeah... numbers from a car review in Australia somewhere. There was a link on this forum in one of the threads.... argh. Do a search ;)

Me and the search function on this forum don't get on. I recently tried searching on "MDI niggles" and got zero results, so instead I manually scrolled through the thread list. For what is quite a modern forum version, the search functionality is really poor IMO.

[Corey_R]

sorry buddy... I've just edited and updated my post... but we both effectively did that simulatenously :)

[simonm]

So that's why VW have anti theft wheel bolts!

The police offers that attended the scene said that lock nuts don't make a huge amount of difference, the thieves just get a socket that is slightly too small and hammer it on, then they can wrench the lock nut off.

[Prodigy]

The two main reasons I ordered ACC are partly because I like gadgets, but mostly because I wanted the comfort mode to optimise the Wife Acceptance Factor when seeking purchase approval. :)

Which is also one of the reasons I didn't order the 19s (harder ride, more expensive rubber over the life of the car, I like the silver headlights with the Rising Blue, and I once came back to my WRX after dinner out to find it up on bricks with no wheels - only had standard rims, was in a busy, well lit multi storey carpark, and it kind of ruined my night. Not really interested in any wheels that might be considered more attractive!)


Yep I agree with all 3 of those points, plus to add to that, if you are actually serious about driving, the 19" rims will be slower around a track due to them being heavier and having less sidewall height and therefore offer worse handling. In fact, with the GTI, the std 17" wheels are faster around a track than the 18" Detroits, so the 19" Talladega's are only going to be even further in the wrong direction!

I have no real intentions to take the car on the track and opting for the 19's over the 18" was an easy choice for me, plus i prefer the look of the black headlights.

I know a few guys in the UK are running on 19"s without ACC and the majority of their roads are in a lot worse condition than ours yet they don't seem to have any major complaints, so i'm hoping all should be fine for me. I think i'm just having one of those "should i have' moments.

[pologti18t]

Yep I agree with all 3 of those points, plus to add to that, if you are actually serious about driving, the 19" rims will be slower around a track due to them being heavier and having less sidewall height and therefore offer worse handling. In fact, with the GTI, the std 17" wheels are faster around a track than the 18" Detroits, so the 19" Talladega's are only going to be even further in the wrong direction!

Seems true from what I have read etc.

[BBP]

Bigger wheels = faster is a myth.

The larger diametre tyres can't get the same traction as smaller ones. The contact patch on smaller tyres is larger under load hence more grip. That's why drag cars and F1 cars have big side walls.

[WhiteJames]

Dynamic Chassis Control can be split into 3 parts:

1. Steering resistance.
2. Dynamic control function.
3. Comfort – Normal – Sport - modes.

1. Steering Resistance: Steering increases with speed as per the non-DCC Golf GTI. After having driven over 4,500km in my GTI equipped with DCC, with about 90% of driving out in the country & mountains, I generally stick to DCC -Normal mode for the most part. The Sport mode is really a plus in the tight twisty mountain routes. Reason being is that at lower speeds the standard Comfort/Normal steering is a too light – that is around 50-80kph. The DCC Comfort/Normal mode makes the GTI difficult to place on the roadway when snaking up and down the tight s-bends at lower speeds. This can be annoying and not as confidence inspiring, leaving the driver having to be very light on steering inputs, in addition to feeling like the chassis is up to the task, but not the steering. Sport mode’s heavy resistance steering makes the GTI much easier to place on the roadway, the driver is able to concentrate on smoothing out the bends with less effort with direct & responsive steering. This makes driving on these types of roadways more enjoyable – brings that element of go-cart accuracy into the drive experience. After a couple of month of ownership, DCC - Sport setting on the highway is not always actively sought, as the lighter Comfort/Sport steering makes for a relaxing drive on the freeway. Sport mode is always chosen for Sporty driving environments like mountain hill climbs. I get the impression that the engineers at Volkswagen have really hit the mark with the Dynamic Chassis Control option.

2. Adaptive control function: Basically, regardless of the mode that the DCC is put into, the electronics determine what the exact amount of damping is required for every occasion. For example: In DCC – Sport: the chassis is stiff until a pot hole is struck mid corner, which in this case, the DCC will soften momentarily to absorb the shock of the pot hole, offering compliance to prevent the pot hole from unsettling the chassis and punting the vehicle offline and into the nearby bushes. Dynamic computer controlled suspension keeps the GTI on course sitting flat through turns all the time. Similar thing with series of pitted and scarred roadwork patches – the driver expects the series of patchwork undulations to unsettle the ride in a straight line, but the DCC adapts almost instantaneously to soften up the series of pits and patchwork in the roadway. The vice versa is also true when DCC is in comfort mode. Comfort mode at 50kph is much softer than Comfort mode at 110kph and any large hits struck along the roadway are stiffened up momentarily to prevent under-damping or hitting the bump stops. As stated before: Adaptive dampers manage to be both supple and firm in almost every instance. This really improves the ownership experience and I never tire of driving the GTI in any type of conditions.

3. Comfort – Normal – Sport modes: This is the basic variation in the chassis tune. The three modes of Comfort – Normal – Sport are distinct from each other. Initially the variations in chassis tune didn’t feel like a huge difference, and are not likely to on a short demo test drive, but after over 4,500km the differences in the DCC become stark.

Cheers
WJ

[Prodigy]

So would the stock setup of a Golf R without ACC be similar in feel to any one of the three setups or is it completely different again.

[G-rig]

So would the stock setup of a Golf R without ACC be similar in feel to any one of the three setups or is it completely different again.

You would have to drive both, but Normal Mode ACC isn't the same as no ACC as it monitors and adjusts the dampening 1000 times per second.

[hooba]

You would have to drive both, but Normal Mode ACC isn't the same as no ACC as it monitors and adjusts the dampening 1000 times per second.

Agreed, drive both and ask yourself what is wrong with the no ACC car. VW's chassis tuners seemed to have gotten the right answer even without the benefit of ACC.

[Prodigy]

Agreed, drive both and ask yourself what is wrong with the no ACC car. VW's chassis tuners seemed to have gotten the right answer even without the benefit of ACC.

I've already ordered mine without ACC, unfortunately none of the dealers i visited had a demo to drive with ACC fitted and up until reading this never thought i would really benefit from it.

However, i was still very impressed with the overall handling and ride quality with the cars i drove without it, was just curious to know if it was similar to any particular one of the ACC settings.

[WhiteJames]

Pictures of Golf R -v- Golf GTI - Audi A5 Coupe 2.0TSI Sportline:

WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - Page 13 - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com (http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100863&page=13)

Have a friend with all three vehicles under consideration. Audi wins hands down in the looks dept. Second pics is screw that Volkswagen discard in top of inner front guard when optioning 19" wheels on the new Mark 6 Golf R. Plastic tab is folded under the metal flange. Still another up to 10 screws holding inner linning in place. Still believe that with 235 X 19" on any golf will have the screw or screwless tab rubbing on harder hits with loaded suspension in downhill tight corners. Love the black Golf R headlight cradles and factory tinted rear windows - not sure about the 19 x 235 series combo. The non-DCC -v- DCC Golf GTI ride very similar - pretty much the same in normal DCC. DCC covers damping for all occassions - reducing the likelihood of a low speed stiff-legged ride or lack of damping when the going gets tough or at higher speeds.

Cheers
WJ

[ccoops79]

Hi WhiteJames,

Have you had the opportunity to test drive the Golf R with the manual gearbox rather than DSG?
With your superior extensive knowledge i am very interested to read your views on the Golf R and how it rides/drives/handles/power delivery etc etc with the manual gearbox, thank you.

[hooba]

Hi WhiteJames,

Have you had the opportunity to test drive the Golf R with the manual gearbox rather than DSG?
With your superior extensive knowledge i am very interested to read your views on the Golf R and how it rides/drives/handles/power delivery etc etc with the manual gearbox, thank you.

I have, and if you can get the search to work for you (I think it was on page 4 of the GTI V R thread), you can read my thoughts on it based on my inferior limited knowledge. ;)

[ccoops79]

I have, and if you can get the search to work for you (I think it was on page 4 of the GTI V R thread), you can read my thoughts on it based on my inferior limited knowledge. ;)

Hey Hooba,

Thankyou very much for your write up. Nice little read. Do you think you will make the transition from the GTI to the R anytime soon? :cool46:

[G-rig]

I think it's good either way unless you live somewhere with bad roads.

I'd like to know how to lower by 1" or so with ACC/DCC, while still taking advantage of the technology. Assume lowered springs only is the answer but probably not recommended. Although it may be possilbe to adjust the limits of the travel settings apparently.

[HPSOV]

My thoughts on ACC after a month.
The difference between normal and comfort is pretty minimal, the car 'wallows' a little in comfort mode, but in terms of how it handles potholes/poor road surfaces I cant feel much difference.
Sport mode does stiffen it up, but again the difference isn't huge. You really need to drive the same route in each mode to be sure of the differences. Driving over a pothole in Sport mode causes a very loud crash. I've 'attacked' a few corners and sport mode does assist in keeping the car flat.
In terms of steering feel, I notice no difference between comfort and normal, and it is heavier in sport. Coming from a WRX I find the steering heavy to start with so dont feel the added weight in sport to be of any benifit.

To those who aren't getting ACC I wouldn't be too concerned, I've done 95% of my driving in normal. The reason I got the ACC is for track days where I feel sport mode will definately add to the handling of the car.

[logger]

Interesting feedback HPSOV. I test drove a tsi118 with ACC and did not see enough difference between the settings to warrant me coughing the dough for it. I am sure the settings differ - but to my liking they did not differ enough for me. BTW with a username like that you'd have to have a cousin called PRV?