First service at 7,500 km?

[Golf Mark 6]

Hi guys,

I've tried searching through the forums but I couldn't find the answer to this question. If it's been addressed before I apologize!

there seems to be a major difference between the service intervals recommended by the logbook in my car (every 15,000) and the dealer's sticker (7,500).

[STV4SYT]

Official service intervals are every 15k. the handbook says 7,500 "In extreme conditions"

Dealer obviously trying to get more servicing out of their customers. servicing every 15k will not do any harm or invalidate your warranty.

[Golf Mark 6]

Surely this is illegal?

I can just imagine the dealership making rubbish up when I try trade the car in for my next car that they can't offer me the full value because I havebn't serviced it every 7,500 km...

[Maverick]

Hi guys,

I've tried searching through the forums but I couldn't find the answer to this question. If it's been addressed before I apologize!

there seems to be a major difference between the service intervals recommended by the logbook in my car (every 15,000) and the dealer's sticker (7,500).

Did the dealer tell you that you had to get the car serviced every 7500km/6 months? Or is it just the sticker you're relying on? Some dealers offer a free inspection at 7500kms/6 months and that's what it could be with an oil top up if required at no charge.


Official service intervals are every 15k. the handbook says 7,500 "In extreme conditions"

Dealer obviously trying to get more servicing out of their customers. servicing every 15k will not do any harm or invalidate your warranty.

Service at 15,000kms if operating under "Severe Condtions" will create warranty issues. And unless I misread the OP it doesn't say what the 7500km/6 month service is for and it may be an inspection.

Severe operating conditions
If the vehicle is used under severe operating conditions some jobs will have to be performed before the next service due or at shorter service intervals.

Severe operating conditions as defined by Volkswagen.

Regular short trips or stop and go operation in urban traffic
High percentage of cold starts
Vehicle is used in areas with winter temperatures over a long period
Regular long periods of idling (e.g. taxis)
Vehicle is often driven under full load or towing a trailer
Using diesel with elevated sulphur content
Regular operation in areas with high levels of dust

[Golf Mark 6]

Unfortunately, no it's not an inspection, it's a service.

Just called the dealership and asked exactly what was involved in the service, and it's pretty much an oil change and nothing much else. For this they charge $320.

My previous car was a Barina, and that seemed to be able to go for 10,000 between servicing, pretty sure my German built engine can do the same.

I'm not peeved with the oil change, I know how important lubrication is to an engine, and I'll probably get the oil change done at another specialist mechanic, I'm just peeved that the dealership is fleecing people out of an extra $300 every six months for what amounts to an oil change I could probably do on my driveway (using the correct oil of course).

Especially when the car is designed for servicing every 15,000.

[Maverick]

Unfortunately, no it's not an inspection, it's a service.

Just called the dealership and asked exactly what was involved in the service, and it's pretty much an oil change and nothing much else. For this they charge $320.

Negotiate the price down or find another dealer. I pay ~$157 for my 6 monthly oil changes. The oil used is a 504.00/507.00 oil as well so worth over $100 retail.


My previous car was a Barina, and that seemed to be able to go for 10,000 between servicing, pretty sure my German built engine can do the same.

Was it turbo and/or supercharged as well?


I'm not peeved with the oil change, I know how important lubrication is to an engine, and I'll probably get the oil change done at another specialist mechanic, I'm just peeved that the dealership is fleecing people out of an extra $300 every six months for what amounts to an oil change I could probably do on my driveway (using the correct oil of course).

Especially when the car is designed for servicing every 15,000.

I'd check with the other dealers to see what they charge.

As for the servicing intervals really depends on the driving, most of Australia fall under the severe servicing interval IMO and whilst the NA cars could easily go the 12 months 15,000kms I wouldn't want to do that with a turbo and/or supercharged car.

[Corey_R]

I'd sit in the middle of Maverick and the dealer and the owners manual.

I'd say just get the thing serviced every 15,000km/12 months, but change the oil and the filter yourself every 7,500km/6 months. The spares/service dept will be happy to order you a few spare filters and bottles of oil. Or you could source them somewhere else if you wanted.

This way you still have the log book stamped appropriately for your warranty and resale, plus the piece of mind of having fresh oil and filter :)

[Supreme]

7,500km is just an oil change. Do it yourself, it's pretty easy.

15,000km is a real service.

[MaccaTSI]

In regards to the first service, has anyone had a look at the service section in the MFD??

I've had my car a few months now, but the MFD says the service is due at 17,800kms or 444 days :eek:

I'm pretty sure last time I checked it, it showed 16,000 odd km, so it seems to be going up.... :confused:

[Preen59]

The oil used is a 504.00/507.00 oil as well so worth over $100 retail.

Man i'm glad i don't pay retail! The Brad Penn oil ("Green Oil") we put in the dragster's mill is $120/case, and that's going in a blown Nitro engine!

[chris.]

first inpection service is at 1000kms

then first service is at 15000kms or one year whatever comes first

then 30 000
45 000
60 000 & so on

it was probably a screw up at PD (pre delivery)
we always get weird service stickers come from them say 5k 7.5k one even said 100 000kms lmao
they are a bunch of twats & are normaly not to do with the dealership or service department.


on a side note its not a bad thing at all to service your car sooner than what is sepcified

i do mine every 2.500 - 3000kms with mobil1 ($130) plus filter & other parts if needed :thumb:

gl with it man :)

[cme2c]

All you guys who service every 3000km Do you do a decoke? adjust the brakes? grease the grease nipples? clean the points? No, of course you don't.

Modern oils are far, far better than anything around when the service schedule for my Bedford was put out in 1975. I now get that serviced every 10,000kms.

The service interval on the MFD in the Golf was on 24000 last I looked. The recommended service interval in Europe for my Peugeot is 20000 MILES! (32,000 kms.)

I am happy to follow the 15,000 Kms on the Golf, and have been following the 20,000 km with my Peugeot with no apparent ill effects in over 90,000 kms. The Peugeot runs fully synthetic ELF oil.

Changing oil 5 times as often means 5 times as much waste oil. Unnecessary, polluting and expensive. If anyone has oil analysis to prove me wrong, I'd like to see it.

[Corey_R]

Changing oil 5 times as often means 5 times as much waste oil. Unnecessary, polluting and expensive. If anyone has oil analysis to prove me wrong, I'd like to see it.

Yeah, I've been having this discussion with a friend of mine recently. Whoever come up with this 10,000km thing did so a long long time ago. Everything else in the world has improved, so why do people think that the quality of engine manufacturing and oil hasn't improved?!

[Maverick]

Modern oils are far, far better than anything around when the service schedule for my Bedford was put out in 1975. I now get that serviced every 10,000kms.

And engines and oils are different now. Modern oils may be improved but they have a lot more to do.

Chevron Oil has a technical doc that shows 70 percent of the parasitic drag is from the shearing of oil molecules between bearing surfaces and bearing journals. Change the oil more often and it reduces this.

Oils are lighter now and are expected to work harder which reduces their life as does the temperature of the engine which are hotter than ever before (for efficiency reasons). More power is being extracted as well, there are closer tolerances and engines work harder.


The service interval on the MFD in the Golf was on 24000 last I looked. The recommended service interval in Europe for my Peugeot is 20000 MILES! (32,000 kms.)

That's good but how does that apply to Australia which has different conditions?


Changing oil 5 times as often means 5 times as much waste oil. Unnecessary, polluting and expensive. If anyone has oil analysis to prove me wrong, I'd like to see it.

The oil is recycled, fuel consumption drops with fresh oil and it protects the engine. Changing the oil often is really the best way to maintain an engine in top condition.

[pomme]

I might consider 7,500 for the first one or two... but probably slip to 15,000 oil changes after that.

I would seriously think every 2,500 to 3,000 is overkill, but good on you if you want to keep it as fresh as possible.

[Golf Mark 6]

Thanks for the advice guys.

At the moment I'm thinking of booking in the Golf at a specialist VW/ Audi mechanic for the 7,500 oil change and using the dealer for the 15,000 km.

[Diesel_vert]

Mobil 1 Test Results (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html)

According to this experiment, the most wear occurs in the first 3,000 miles (5,000 km).

You'd be better off just changing the oil filter and topping up every 7,500 km. Saves the environment (meh), saves you money (good) AND saves your engine (nice) over the long term.

[Diesel_vert]

Copy and pasted from Volkswagen Deutschland;


Diesel-Kraftstoff mit erhöhtem Schwefelanteil
In einigen Märkten enthält der Diesel-Kraftstoff einen erhöhten Schwefelanteil, dann gilt ein Ölwechsel-Intervall von 7.500 km. In welchen Ländern ein erhöhter Schwefelanteil im Diesel-Kraftstoff enthalten ist, erfragen Sie bitte bei Ihrem Volkswagen Partner.

Basically it says that markets in which the diesel has high sulfur content, the oil should be changed every 7,500 km. Since 1 January 2009, Australia's diesel sulfur content is now the same as that of the EU (10 ppm) so this no longer applies to us. TDI drivers down under, rejoice!

[Diesel_vert]

For the benefit of everyone - taken from the Volkswagen UK website;


LongLife Servicing and Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow Longlife III

How advanced engineering and oil has changed the way your Volkswagen is serviced.

LongLife Service regimes
The LongLife Service regime is so called because there are no set service intervals and, depending on how you drive your vehicle, and the conditions of use, a service will be required anywhere between 15,000 km or 12 months (whichever occurs first), up to a maximum of 30,000* km or 24 months (whichever occurs first).

This LongLife service regime has been made possible due to the development of new Volkswagen engines with the latest technically advanced LongLife oil. These engines use built-in sensors that continually monitor the oil quality, making it possible to enjoy reliable and confident motoring for up to a maximum of 30,000* km or 24 months (whichever occurs first).

*Please consult your Volkswagen Retailer or repairer for full information.

It’s your choice
All new Volkswagen cars (except Fox) are now manufactured with the LongLife Service regime activated and the engine filled with Castrol LongLife oil. However, your car is also capable of being serviced at a more traditional time of 12 months or 15,000 km (which ever occurs first), this regime is known as Time and Distance. Your Retailer will explain both systems and can reset your car to the Time and Distance regime at the Pre Delivery Inspection if you wish. Whichever regime you choose, the vehicle dashboard service indicator will remind you when the service is due. With the LongLife service regime it could be anywhere between 15,000 km or 12 months up to a maximum of 30,000* km or 24 months, depending on the way the car is driven and/or its operating environment. The Time and Distance regime will be around 15,000 km or 12 months (which ever occurs first).

What LongLife Servicing can mean to you
• Fewer visits to your Retailers or repairer’s workshop.
• Lower lifetime service costs.
• Less oil to dispose of, an environmental benefit.
• Fuel saving.

Your Retailer will have a calculation available that can illustrate the likely savings you will make on both the maintenance of your vehicle and the fuel bill using either the LongLife or Time and Distance regimes.

Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow LongLife III engine oil
Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow LongLife III has been co-engineered with Volkswagen and uses Clean Performance Technology™ to give you a low level of emissions resulting in a clean car and clean air. The combination of Castrol oil and the Volkswagen Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) reduces ash deposits by up to 50% when compared to some other fully synthetic engine oils, thereby helping to prolong the life of the filter.

Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow LongLife III top up kits
In the event that you need to top up the engine oil between services Castrol have a Check It Kit containing:
• 1 litre of Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow LongLife III.
• Dip stick wipe.
• Disposable gloves.
• Disposable funnel.
• Contained in a black vinyl case attachable to the luggage compartment lining.
So now you can easily check your oil level and ensure that the correct oil is used.
These kits are available from your Volkswagen Retailer.

Answers to the most frequently asked questions

Is the LongLife regime more expensive than the more traditional Time and Distance regime?
No, the basic service cost hasn’t changed, but because you need fewer services, you will save money. However, LongLife oil is more expensive than conventional oil. So, if you choose the LongLife regime, there will be a corresponding increase in the cost of the oil replaced during a service. Importantly this increased cost must be seen in context. Over a period, the reduced number of services means that the cost of ownership nearly always comes down. Your Retailer has a calculation that can illustrate the likely savings you will make on both the maintenance of your vehicle and the fuel bill.

What is LongLife III oil?
LongLife oil is a high grade, fully synthetic oil with increased resistance to ageing at high temperatures. When LongLife servicing was originally introduced it was generally designated SAE 0W-30 and met Volkswagen standards 503 00 for petrol engines and 506 00 and later 506 01 for diesel engines. With the introduction of new emission limits for passenger cars in 2005 requiring the fitment of exhaust gas after-treatment devices, Volkswagen have upgraded their LongLife specifications to 504 00 for petrol and 507 00 for diesel. LongLife oils meeting 504 00/507 00 are now SAE 5W-30 viscosity. Apart from a few exceptions*, these new specifications replace the earlier 503 00/506 00/506 01 specifications. Oils meeting the new specifications are designed to work with the latest emissions control equipment, such as diesel particulate filters (DPF). Use of oil which only meets earlier LongLife specifications can halve the life of a DPF.

*All diesel vehicles fitted with R5 (5 cylinder) and 5.0ltr V10 engines and manufactured prior to 1 January 2006, cannot use oils meeting Volkswagen standard 507 00 even if equipped with a DPF. These engines should use oils meeting Volkswagen standard 506 01 (eg. Castrol Professional Longtec LongLife II 0W-30) for both LongLife and Time and Distance servicing regimes.

Important note
In order to maximise the life of the DPF, all DPF equipped Volkswagen vehicles (except pre 2006 R5 and V10 engines) must use an engine oil meeting the new 507 00 specification even when on Time and Distance servicing regime.

Do I have to use LongLife oil all the time?
Yes. If you want to take advantage of the LongLife service regime. Please note that if the engine is topped up with more than ½ litre of non-LongLife oil between services, the service indicator will come on earlier and the time or distance between services will be reduced.

Can I really save money on my fuel bill?
Yes. Extensive tests carried out by Volkswagen have demonstrated that Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow LongLife III provides improved fuel economy - equivalent to 15 km extra per tank on the Volkswagen Passat 2.0 FSI (UK spec) compared to a 15W-40 viscosity oil.

If I am on the LongLife service regime, I might not have my car serviced for up to 2 years; will this affect my warranty?
No. The warranty covers against defects of manufacture. However, if a component fails due to your car not being serviced to the Volkswagen recommendations, then this is not covered by the warranty.

I am concerned that my car can be used on the road for 2 years without any safety checks
Many components are far longer lasting than they used to be. The front brake pads are electronically monitored, as is the engine oil level. The battery is maintenance free. Tyres are the most vulnerable item and you have an obligation to check these on a regular basis.

The instruction manual explains that the service indicator can be reset via the trip display button
This is correct. However, if this resetting method is used, the service regime will automatically change to Time and Distance (Selected models only).

I am not sure which service regime is best for me
The choice or regime can be dependent on how the car is driven and the conditions of use, it is impossible to state any hard and fast rules. However, if you are not sure, Volkswagen recommends that your car be set to the factories default of the LongLife regime. The service indicator will tell you when the first service is due. Your Volkswagen Retailer or repairer will then discuss the best regime suitable for you to adopt. To help you identify which regime may be best for you, please refer to the following guidance.

LongLife Regime
To obtain the most benefit from the LongLife service regime, the car should to be generally driven in a style/condition of use listed below:
• Mainly longer distance journeys
• Limited number of cold starts, engine is kept at operating temperature over a longer period of time
• Daily mileage above approx. 40 km
• Constant speed
• Vehicle used regularly

Time/Distance Regime
It your car is driven in a style if listed below, it may be more appropriate to opt for the Time and Distance regime:
• Extremely uneconomical driving style ie continual maximum acceleration ie. ‘foot to floor’
• Vehicle fully loaded
• Mainly short journeys
• Frequent cold starts
• Frequent hill climbs
• Frequent towing
• City centre driving

For further information concerning the servicing regimes, please consult your Volkswagen Retailer or repairer for full details.

Please note
All mileage stated is an approximate guide as the service indicator system uses kilometres as the distance measurement. For our benefit I've changed the figures from miles to kilometres.

Last updated September 2007.

In summary, 15,000 km intervals should be a doddle, ON THE CONDITION that you use an officially approved and certified 504 00/507 00 oil, (click here (http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf) for a list of suitable oils).

DO NOT use any oil that is not on that list except for emergency top up purposes and/or to maintain mobility (at least during the warranty period).

[Maverick]

Copy and pasted from Volkswagen Deutschland;

Basically it says that markets in which the diesel has high sulfur content, the oil should be changed every 7,500 km. Since 1 January 2009, Australia's diesel sulfur content is now the same as that of the EU (10 ppm) so this no longer applies to us. TDI drivers down under, rejoice!

The EU is moving to sulfur free diesel as well, we'll be 20 years behind once again :banana:


For the benefit of everyone - taken from the Volkswagen UK website;

In summary, 15,000 km intervals should be a doddle, ON THE CONDITION that you use an officially approved and certified 504 00/507 00 oil, (click here (http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf) for a list of suitable oils).

DO NOT use any oil that is not on that list except for emergency top up purposes and/or to maintain mobility (at least during the warranty period).

Except under severe conditions which are pretty normal for Australia.


Service at 15,000kms if operating under "Severe Condtions" will create warranty issues.

Severe operating conditions
If the vehicle is used under severe operating conditions some jobs will have to be performed before the next service due or at shorter service intervals.

Severe operating conditions as defined by Volkswagen.

Regular short trips or stop and go operation in urban traffic
High percentage of cold starts
Vehicle is used in areas with winter temperatures over a long period
Regular long periods of idling (e.g. taxis)
Vehicle is often driven under full load or towing a trailer
Using diesel with elevated sulphur content
Regular operation in areas with high levels of dust

[Corey_R]

Maverick.... they are saying there that 15,000 IS for severe conditions, and that otherwise you can service them up to every 30,000 / 24 months. So the fact dealers do the service every 15,000 km here means that they're already acknowledging the severe conditions of this country and our driving style.

[Diesel_vert]

The EU is moving to sulfur free diesel as well, we'll be 20 years behind once again
Depsite the implied meaning, the term "sulfur free" actually means "10 ppm sulfur" in the industry - think it's something to do with technical feasibility .


Our "Severe Operating Conditions" reads a like lot like their "Time/Distance Regime", no?

Time/Distance Regime
It your car is driven in a style if listed below, it may be more appropriate to opt for the Time and Distance regime:
• Extremely uneconomical driving style ie continual maximum acceleration ie. ‘foot to floor’ = Not accounted for in Oz?
• Vehicle fully loaded = Vehicle is often driven under full load or towing a trailer
• Mainly short journeys = Regular short trips or stop and go operation in urban traffic
• Frequent cold starts = High percentage of cold starts; Vehicle is used in areas with winter temperatures over a long period
• Frequent hill climbs = Not accounted for in Oz?
• Frequent towing = Vehicle is often driven under full load or towing a trailer
• City centre driving = Regular short trips or stop and go operation in urban traffic; Regular long periods of idling (e.g. taxis)

Using diesel with elevated sulphur content - irrelevant in Australia since 2009
Regular operation in areas with high levels of dust - okay maybe this (Sydney dust storms anyone :D though perhaps exception rather than the rule)


I've nothing against good maintenance, I just hate to see Aussie Veedubbers get ripped off needlessly by the dealers (esp. considering the way they treat some of us). Why is it that under the exact same set of severe conditions that we must get our cars serviced every 7,500 km (if that is in fact what the book says) but they can go 15,000 km? One possibility is the lack of 504 00/507 00 oils on the shelves of every Autobarn store et. al. But unless proven otherwise (and I'm happy to stand corrected), I call shenanigans on this one.

[Maverick]

Depsite the implied meaning, the term "sulfur free" actually means "10 ppm sulfur" in the industry - think it's something to do with technical feasibility .

Sulfur free doesn't mean 10 ppm.

10 ppm sulfur is ultra-low sulfur (ULSD)

"Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) (sulfur is also spelled “sulphur”) is a term used to describe a standard for defining diesel fuel with substantially lowered sulfur contents. As of 2006, almost all of the petroleum-based diesel fuel available in Europe and North America is of a ULSD type."

"Certain EU countries may apply higher standards or require faster transition.[2] For example, Germany implemented a tax incentive of €0.015 per litre of "sulphur free" fuel (both gasoline and diesel) containing less than 10 ppm beginning in January, 2003 and average sulphur content was estimated in 2006 to be 3-5 ppm."

"Since 2003, a "zero" sulfur and very low aromatic content (less than 1% by volume) diesel fuel has been made available on the Swedish market under the name EcoPar. It is used wherever the working environment is highly polluted, like where diesel trucks are used in confined spaces such inside boats in harbours, inside storage houses, during construction of road and rail tunnels & in vehicles that are predominantly run in city centres, etc."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel


Our "Severe Operating Conditions" reads a like lot like their "Time/Distance Regime", no?

Has nothing to do with it. Do VW fit a tropics pack to cars in the UK? No they don't. Do VW fit a tropics pack to cars in Australia? Yes they do.


I've nothing against good maintenance, I just hate to see Aussie Veedubbers get ripped off needlessly by the dealers (esp. considering the way they treat some of us). Why is it that under the exact same set of severe conditions that we must get our cars serviced every 7,500 km (if that is in fact what the book says) but they can go 15,000 km? One possibility is the lack of 504 00/507 00 oils on the shelves of every Autobarn store et. al. But unless proven otherwise (and I'm happy to stand corrected), I call shenanigans on this one.

Australia is different to the UK, completely different traffic and different weather. And it has nothing to do with 504.00/507.00 oils as these are readily available.

Volkswagen make the car and Volkswagen have said that in Australia cars must be serviced a maximum of every 15,000km and 12 months. They list a set of circumstances under which the car should be serviced more frequently. You can ignore Volkswagen and claim that this is part of a plan to rip us off or you can follow their advice with servicing under the assumption that their engineers who spend tens of thousands of hours testing cars and engines under all different circumstances know what they're doing.

[Diesel_vert]

I hate Wiki sometimes.


Sulfur free doesn't mean 10 ppm.
For all intents and purposes, the term “sulphur free” or “zero sulphur” corresponds to a sulphur content of <10 ppm (see note [13]) (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:52008DC0799:EN:HTML) and is a common definition used by legislation and industry. Here is one of many examples where "zero" implies "10 or less" - European Environment Agency - Assessment April 2009 (http://themes.eea.europa.eu/IMS/IMS/ISpecs/ISpecification20041007132328/IAssessment1226918420756/view_content).

The only fuels which truly don't have sulfur (negligible or trace amounts) are synthetic fuels (think Fischer-Tropsch), such as EcoPar, which I don't see becoming mainstream for a while yet.


Do VW fit a tropics pack to cars in Australia? Yes they do.
That's pretty neat, I guess Oz delivered cars won't have any problems dealing with the heat... so why the shortened intervals if it can cope?


Australia is different to the UK, completely different traffic and different weather.
Traffic congestion is traffic congestion, be it Sydney or Berlin. Seriously, what's the difference? And is a 30°C day in Melbourne any different from a 30°C day in Paris? The wording might be different but they imply the same thing.


They list a set of circumstances under which the car should be serviced more frequently.
I'm interested why this condition - Extremely uneconomical driving style ie continual maximum acceleration ie. ‘foot to floor’ - demands a shortened interval of 15,000 km over there, yet lesser conditions over here demand a 7,500 km drain interval...


You can ignore Volkswagen and claim that this is part of a plan to rip us off or you can follow their advice with servicing under the assumption that their engineers who spend tens of thousands of hours testing cars and engines under all different circumstances know what they're doing.
Are you adamant because you think I'm wrong or because you know something we don't (TSB's, confidential documents, etc.)?

[cme2c]

And engines and oils are different now. Modern oils may be improved but they have a lot more to do..

And they can handle it much better. The revolution goes all the way from whipper snippers to power generation equipment.


Chevron Oil has a technical doc that shows 70 percent of the parasitic drag is from the shearing of oil molecules between bearing surfaces and bearing journals..

Yes, it's always been the case. that's one of the reasons oils are now lighter


Change the oil more often and it reduces this..

Evidence? The study quoted by Diesel vert seems to reach a different conclusion


Oils are lighter now and are expected to work harder which reduces their life as does the temperature of the engine which are hotter than ever before (for efficiency reasons). More power is being extracted as well, there are closer tolerances and engines work harder.

less blowby, less fuel in the oil, less crap in the fuel, better filters. All these things make the oils job easier. Would you run an engine hard when the oil's cold?


That's good but how does that apply to Australia which has different conditions?.

Peugeot Europe 30000 kms, Aus 20000 kms, dealer 10000 kms.




The oil is recycled, fuel consumption drops with fresh oil and it protects the engine. Changing the oil often is really the best way to maintain an engine in top condition.

So, you have oil that has had its long chain molecules chopped up, it's no good according to this philosophy. You strain it, add some more additives and put it back in an engine. How does this make more sense than extending the oil change intervals in the first place?

[Maverick]

For all intents and purposes, the term “sulphur free” or “zero sulphur” corresponds to a sulphur content of <10 ppm (see note [13]) (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:52008DC0799:EN:HTML) and is a common definition used by legislation and industry. Here is one of many examples where "zero" implies "10 or less"

That wasn't what you said and it wasn't what I responded to. You said


Depsite the implied meaning, the term "sulfur free" actually means "10 ppm sulfur" in the industry - think it's something to do with technical feasibility .


I'm interested why this condition - Extremely uneconomical driving style ie continual maximum acceleration ie. ‘foot to floor’ - demands a shortened interval of 15,000 km over there, yet lesser conditions over here demand a 7,500 km drain interval...

Severe conditions recommend that they use the distance/time method. You'll find that the same recommendations apply as they do in Australia where the car is serviced more frequently. Elsawin seems to indicate this as well.


Are you adamant because you think I'm wrong or because you know something we don't (TSB's, confidential documents, etc.)?

I'm not adamant at all, what I said was


Volkswagen make the car and Volkswagen have said that in Australia cars must be serviced a maximum of every 15,000km and 12 months. They list a set of circumstances under which the car should be serviced more frequently. You can ignore Volkswagen and claim that this is part of a plan to rip us off or you can follow their advice with servicing under the assumption that their engineers who spend tens of thousands of hours testing cars and engines under all different circumstances know what they're doing.

Shouldn't we follow Volkswagens recommendations rather than trying to read into European recommendations?

[Maverick]

So, you have oil that has had its long chain molecules chopped up, it's no good according to this philosophy. You strain it, add some more additives and put it back in an engine. How does this make more sense than extending the oil change intervals in the first place?

Did you read what I wrote? I was responding to the claim that it's not environmentally responsible to change the oil frequently. The days have long gone when oil was tipped into the sewer or out the back of the mechanics and they recycle it now for use as something else.


The oil is recycled, fuel consumption drops with fresh oil and it protects the engine. Changing the oil often is really the best way to maintain an engine in top condition.

Note: the oil is recycled and fresh oil is added.

[Preen59]

Wow.. Lots of excellent discussion here..

I service the Caddy every 5,000 K's. :)

[Diesel_vert]

That wasn't what you said and it wasn't what I responded to. You said...
True that, though in hindsight I should have worded it better. But you can see where I'm coming from, yeah?


Severe conditions recommend that they use the distance/time method. You'll find that the same recommendations apply as they do in Australia where the car is serviced more frequently. Elsawin seems to indicate this as well.
I'm simply saying that our "severe" conditions are not that dissimilar as people might think if you think about it, and that 7,500 km is a bit short if you use 504 00/507 00 oils (and just to clarify to everyone, I'm not advocating the "LongLife Regime" in Oz).


I'm not adamant at all, what I said was...
Adamant was probably too strong a word. As you know my views are my own. Is your disagreement based on your own opinion or something more factual? I've been to your site - you seem to have access to a lot of internal VW information and thought 'have I been arguing with a VW insider who's secretly hanging out on a car forum?' or something like that... j:


Shouldn't we follow Volkswagens recommendations rather than trying to read into European recommendations?
I'm grossly oversimplifying here, but VW were probably faced with the old "here's three, pick two" scenario when designing the 504 00/507 00 oil.

Extended-intervals/Low-SAPS/cheap.

They clearly chose the first two options.

Why not take advantage of this technology VW offers? Since it's potentially good for 30,000km, or 15,000 km in severe conditions (i.e. foot-to-floor driving), it should be good to drain every 15,000km. If one still wants further peace-of-mind, just change the oil filter and top up every 7,500 km (replenishing regularly, because even small amounts of top up oil can do wonders (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html)). Now I know why the car manufacturers keep banging on about topping up fluids.

But if one is still not convinced, save yourself the stress of deciding and/or the cost of 504 00/507 00 oils - buy a 502 00 oil and drain every 7,500 km instead.

Either way - breathe easy!

[Diesel_vert]

Peugeot Europe 30000 kms, Aus 20000 kms, dealer 10000 kms.

Just to expand on this, Peugeot's official service intervals (for most engines) are set at 30,000 km for normal conditions and 20,000 km for severe conditions (with a "fluids top up only" service at 15,000 km and 10,000 km respectively). Like VW, Australia was deemed by Peugeot to fall in the "severe" category, hence the 20,000 km intervals. But unlike VW, they then didn't go and cut the official severe interval by half again to 10,000 km (i.e. your 7,500 km interval).

There is a small minority of dealers who charge money (but not exorbitantly) for a "service" every 10,000 km (which basically just amounts to an oil change) despite the official recommendation. This sort of behaviour was also common in the US when the TDI engines were introduced in 1999 with 10,000 mile (15,000 km) intervals via the mandatory use of 505 01 oils. VW dealers, either through incompetence or knowingly, took advantage of the ingrained American culture of 5,000 km oil changes and charged accordingly. Many debates and flames ensued on the forums, and in the end the dealers were found to be needlessly changing and charging - I refer to this forum, TDIClub Forums (http://forums.tdiclub.com/).

Not that the Peugeot info has anything to do with us, which is merely an interesting observation. However the VW info on the other hand...

[harbour2929]

Well guys for what it is worth I have actually contacted Volkswagen in Germany asking them about oil change intervals and associated "severe" conditions. I was driven to that action because of all the contradictory info I was reading and hearing. The Germans were very polite and said that they appreciated my concerns and that they had passed my enquiry to Volkswagen Australia for them to answer my questions.
Uh-oh I thought - here we go - on the merry go round... never to be heard from again..... BUT... I was pleasantly surprised and contacted by a customer service rep to discuss and work out a solution to my concerns. I told him that I was worried about 15,000km / 12 month servicing as I considered my car operated under severe driving conditions. (90% of trips are of less than 15 minutes duration).
He said he would talk to his technical people to see what would be appropriate for my car. The end result was that the car should properly be serviced at the 15,000km / 12 month interval. The oil in the car's new engine was indeed a special running in oil and was not to be changed prior to the specified interval. The engine and the oil are designed to operate efficiently and safely under the recommended schedule. It is interesting to note that this advice was exactly the same as I received from my selling dealer when I queried it with them some months ago - at the beginning of this saga.
So, I guess, take it or leave it - I used to change the oil in my WRX and Forester XT at every 2500kms - overkill to be sure.... I still have nightmares about leaving the oil in the engine for these new long periods, but at the very least I have names and written documents to support the advice if ever something happens in the future. Of course I desperately hope that it never comes anywhere near to that....I have to place my faith in those engineers and oil technicians and rely on the fact that they don't spend millions of dollars on research for no reason.... My 2c worth folks......

[Diesel_vert]

10 bucks sez at the next service, the dealer asks you to come back in 7,500 km/6 months :D


But if you feel uneasy about extended drain intervals, I recommend changing the oil filter every six months (sounds like you don't do big mileages) or 7,500 km and top up regularly - even small amounts of top up oil will greatly help prolong the life of the oil (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html). I think this is a smarter use of your resources.

[harbour2929]

10 bucks sez at the next service, the dealer asks you to come back in 7,500 km/6 months :D


But if you feel uneasy about extended drain intervals, I recommend changing the oil filter every six months (sounds like you don't do big mileages) or 7,500 km and top up regularly - even small amounts of top up oil will greatly help prolong the life of the oil (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html). I think this is a smarter use of your resources.

Hi and thanks for that info - very much appreciated.....

[Golf Mark 6]

He said he would talk to his technical people to see what would be appropriate for my car. The end result was that the car should properly be serviced at the 15,000km / 12 month interval. The oil in the car's new engine was indeed a special running in oil and was not to be changed prior to the specified interval. The engine and the oil are designed to operate efficiently and safely under the recommended schedule.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but VW Australia actually stated that the oil in a new engine (like mine) should actually run for the 15,000km because that's what it was designed for?

You see the problem I have is not strictly financial (though I promise you I won't be returning to my dealer to pay $300 for an oil change), it's the fact that the dealer is seemingly disregarding the instructions from the manufacturer to make a profit.

So far I have to say that I ABSOLUTELY love my car. With all it's tweets, little boot bumps over speedhumps and everything else, it's a fantastic piece of engineering. I'm completely sold on VW.

I'm NOT sold at all on the pathetic customer service I have received. You'd expect the service to be the same level as the car itself, but it seems this is not the case.

It shouldn't be too much to ask for the dealership to communicate exactly what the manufacturer does. How am i supposed to trust these guys with servicing my car if they make up their own rules?

[gti]

I've serviced my gti at 7,500 and 15,000km and plan on getting the oil changed again at 22,700.

[chilliman]

well my gti has a sticker for 15000kms initial service so that's what I am doing. Mind you the rate I am going that'll be in 8-9 months time!!

[Deano]

if you change your oil before 15,000 km's and have oil usage concerns later on within the waranty period VW can refuse to cover costs of repair and the 7,500 service is just a money spinner.

[Maverick]

if you change your oil before 15,000 km's and have oil usage concerns later on within the waranty period VW can refuse to cover costs of repair and the 7,500 service is just a money spinner.

Based on what?

The manual says different and elsawin says different as well.

As for the 7,500km oil changes just being a money spinner, that's your opinion and those that like to care for the engines see if differently.

[Blitzen]

Well guys for what it is worth I have actually contacted Volkswagen in Germany asking them about oil change intervals and associated "severe" conditions. I was driven to that action because of all the contradictory info I was reading and hearing. The Germans were very polite and said that they appreciated my concerns and that they had passed my enquiry to Volkswagen Australia for them to answer my questions.
Uh-oh I thought - here we go - on the merry go round... never to be heard from again..... BUT... I was pleasantly surprised and contacted by a customer service rep to discuss and work out a solution to my concerns. I told him that I was worried about 15,000km / 12 month servicing as I considered my car operated under severe driving conditions. (90% of trips are of less than 15 minutes duration).
He said he would talk to his technical people to see what would be appropriate for my car. The end result was that the car should properly be serviced at the 15,000km / 12 month interval. The oil in the car's new engine was indeed a special running in oil and was not to be changed prior to the specified interval. The engine and the oil are designed to operate efficiently and safely under the recommended schedule. It is interesting to note that this advice was exactly the same as I received from my selling dealer when I queried it with them some months ago - at the beginning of this saga.
So, I guess, take it or leave it - I used to change the oil in my WRX and Forester XT at every 2500kms - overkill to be sure.... I still have nightmares about leaving the oil in the engine for these new long periods, but at the very least I have names and written documents to support the advice if ever something happens in the future. Of course I desperately hope that it never comes anywhere near to that....I have to place my faith in those engineers and oil technicians and rely on the fact that they don't spend millions of dollars on research for no reason.... My 2c worth folks......

If this isn't a defintate answer, I don't know what is...I think that no amount of Google searches can overrule the what the manufacturer states in personal contact, or the operators manual.

[gregozedobe]

If this isn't a defintate answer, I don't know what is...I think that no amount of Google searches can overrule the what the manufacturer states in personal contact, or the operators manual.

Unfortunately the MANUFACTURER of VWs (VW in Germany) did not say any of that.

This is all based on verbal advice from VW Australia (an importer and distributor of VWs). AFAIK this new "Australia only" policy was agreed on at a gathering of some Australian VW service personnel earlier this year in response to issues with excessive oil consumption in some VW engines.

I was told about this special "initial fill of special 'running-in' oil" and not changing oil at 7,500Km despite clear instructions to do so by VW germany (via the owner's manual) if the car is being driven in severe service conditions a few weeks ago.

I was quite skeptical, so I asked if I could have a written copy of this advice. The service manager I was talking to declined to give me anything in writing. Make of that what you will. :rolleyes: I have strong doubts that there is any official advice from VW Germany supporting this approach.

If I had a new VW that I used for mainly short trips I think I'd be insisting on official written advice from VWA specifically telling me NOT to change the oil at 7,500Km before I would ignore what the manufacturer advises me to do in the owner's manual. That might shake things up a bit at VWA (or at least lead to some fancy weasel words justifying why they won't back up their verbal advice with written confirmation).

Of course I might be totally wrong and VW Germany actually do fill VWs with a special running in oil and definitely don't want you to do a 7,500km oil change even though the car is being driven in severe service conditions :confused:

Maybe one of the VW techs or dealer reps that are on this forum can give us more information about this issue.

[Maverick]

If this isn't a defintate answer, I don't know what is...I think that no amount of Google searches can overrule the what the manufacturer states in personal contact, or the operators manual.

The manufacturer didn't state anything, someone at VWA told him verbally and last time I looked VWA has their customer service handled by a third party. And to answer your petty little google attack the main information doesn't come from Google but Volkwagen themself.

1. The MANUAL (written by Volkswagen (NOT VWA) in conjunction with their engineers) states that in Australia we have 12 month and/or 15,000km services EXCEPT under severe conditions under which parts of the service need to be performed earlier.

Severe operating conditions
If the vehicle is used under severe operating conditions some jobs will have to be performed before the next service due or at shorter service intervals.

Severe operating conditions as defined by Volkswagen.

Regular short trips or stop and go operation in urban traffic
High percentage of cold starts
Vehicle is used in areas with winter temperatures over a long period
Regular long periods of idling (e.g. taxis)
Vehicle is often driven under full load or towing a trailer
Using diesel with elevated sulphur content
Regular operation in areas with high levels of dust


2. ELSAWIN also has the same information. Elsawin is the factory repair, maintenance and information source.

3. US Service Manuals, they get the same factory fill that we do. On call cars prior to MY09 they had an oil change at 5,000m, 10,000m and after this at 10,000m intervals (except if operating under severe operating conditions).

4. Oil Analysis done by the US guys. Heaps of info on the oil and the quality after 5,000 and 10,000 miles.

Feel free to actually contribute something useful Blitzen instead of taking the opportunity to have a go at someone.

[Sales @ Mentone Skoda]

Hi Guys,

I know coming from a dealer this will get shrugged off as unsubstantiated dribble but i can assure you that the recommended servicing schedule is and always has been 15,000km/12 months from VGA. There is an option of doing a 7,500km service for those who are adammant the car needs it but in reality it is a waste of good money and the oil is designed to be in there for 15,000km/12 months without any fear of damage or developing issues under normal operating conditions (which would be 80% of owners in OZ). Irrespective of the views given on OS websites, the warranty is honoured by VGA and therefore you should be going by what they deem to be the parameters and that is a minimum of 15,000km or 12 months whichever comes first.

The occassional top up is not uncommon but the car will let you know when it and if it is required.

For a dealer to say that VGA recommend the 7,500km service this is wrong and misleading.

[gregozedobe]

Thanks for that MS, I don't think many dealers are pushing owners to change the oil at 7,500Km/6 months, this discussion is about dealers actively discouraging owners from doing it then even if they do frequent short trips where the engine doesn't get warmed up properly and/or lots of cold starts (see the definition of "severe operating conditions in the owners manual) ie the other 20% of owners in Oz. The type of oil put in for the initial fill is a related issue.

I'm guessing VGA haven't/won't give out anything official (in writing) to owners on either point:

1 Initial fill is a special ''running-in' oil (ie it is different in some way to the normal oils supplied for subsequent servicing),

2 Do not change oil at 7,500km even when driving is "severe service conditions" (which doesn't really make sense when you consider we are required to change it at 12 months, even if you have only driven 2,000Km in that time). This verbal advice directly contradicts what VW Germany say in our owners manuals (and Elsawin etc).

JMO

[Blitzen]

The manufacturer didn't state anything, someone at VWA told him verbally and last time I looked VWA has their customer service handled by a third party. And to answer your petty little google attack the main information doesn't come from Google but Volkwagen themself.

Aww, chin up Mav.


Feel free to actually contribute something useful Blitzen instead of taking the opportunity to have a go at someone.

Hahahahahahaha...This is rich coming from you...Maybe you should consider your own advice sometimes too.

[Corey_R]

Hi Guys,

I know coming from a dealer this will get shrugged off as unsubstantiated dribble but i can assure you that the recommended servicing schedule is and always has been 15,000km/12 months from VGA. There is an option of doing a 7,500km service for those who are adammant the car needs it but in reality it is a waste of good money and the oil is designed to be in there for 15,000km/12 months without any fear of damage or developing issues under normal operating conditions (which would be 80% of owners in OZ). Irrespective of the views given on OS websites, the warranty is honoured by VGA and therefore you should be going by what they deem to be the parameters and that is a minimum of 15,000km or 12 months whichever comes first.

The occassional top up is not uncommon but the car will let you know when it and if it is required.

For a dealer to say that VGA recommend the 7,500km service this is wrong and misleading.

Thanks heaps for that advice and taking the time to post in here :)

[Flighter]

Wow, this is a confusing topic. At the risk of making it more so, here's my experience.

I collected my new car recently, and noticed that it had a service sticker stating 7,500kms. When I asked about why it didn't say 15,000, the dealer said that it wasn't mandatory to change the oil that early, but was recommended. As I expect to only do about 10,000kms a year, I figured I'd just go the whole year between changes (keeping it topped up of course), so he suggested using VW 504 rated oil (e.g. Castrol SLX Long Life III) instead of the more usual VW 502 grade (e.g. Castrol Edge Sport 5W-30).

I've no idea what's in the crankcase now, but I sure wish I did!

Flighter


Hi Guys,

I know coming from a dealer this will get shrugged off as unsubstantiated dribble but i can assure you that the recommended servicing schedule is and always has been 15,000km/12 months from VGA. There is an option of doing a 7,500km service for those who are adammant the car needs it but in reality it is a waste of good money and the oil is designed to be in there for 15,000km/12 months without any fear of damage or developing issues under normal operating conditions (which would be 80% of owners in OZ). Irrespective of the views given on OS websites, the warranty is honoured by VGA and therefore you should be going by what they deem to be the parameters and that is a minimum of 15,000km or 12 months whichever comes first.

The occassional top up is not uncommon but the car will let you know when it and if it is required.

For a dealer to say that VGA recommend the 7,500km service this is wrong and misleading.

[Mk6 GTI]

I'd sit in the middle of Maverick and the dealer and the owners manual.

I'd say just get the thing serviced every 15,000km/12 months, but change the oil and the filter yourself every 7,500km/6 months. The spares/service dept will be happy to order you a few spare filters and bottles of oil. Or you could source them somewhere else if you wanted.

This way you still have the log book stamped appropriately for your warranty and resale, plus the piece of mind of having fresh oil and filter :)

Wont doing it yourself void the warranty??

[MurphyTheElf]

Aww, chin up Mav.

Hahahahahahaha...This is rich coming from you...Maybe you should consider your own advice sometimes too.

As usual, more pointless drivel from you in an otherwise informative thread. I see your "Moderator" title has promptly vanished after the rubbish you've posted in the past few days. I call that a good start....

Thanks to everybody else's input - it shows people really care about their cars. It also provides me with some tips on what I should be paying attention to when dealing with the service centre in the not too distant future. As long as each post has some form of constructive discussion (or a fun comment), then I'm rapt to be a part of this forum. Others just do their best to f@ck it up for everybody.

[Deano]

[QUOTE=Maverick;430051]Based on what?QUOTE]

A customer that had to pay the bill even though the vehicle was still in full waranty, (not goodwill) due to the service book having been stamped with service @ 7,500km's.

[Maverick]

[QUOTE=Maverick;430051]Based on what?QUOTE]

A customer that had to pay the bill even though the vehicle was still in full waranty, (not goodwill) due to the service book having been stamped with service @ 7,500km's.

I really doubt that it's as clear cut as you're suggesting and there would have to be more to it. What sort of repair was it?

Many VW dealers perform services every 7500kms. The manual itself says that is ok. And there are plenty of people all around the world that service their car early.

In the US all cars up until MY09 had a 5000mile oil change followed by a 10000mile service and 10000mile intervals thereafter.

If the oil wasn't VW approved on the other hand I can see them refusing warranty.

[pologti18t]

As usual, more pointless drivel from you in an otherwise informative thread. I see your "Moderator" title has promptly vanished after the rubbish you've posted in the past few days. I call that a good start....
then I'm rapt to be a part of this forum. Others just do their best to f@ck it up for everybody.

Your first entry for someone else's thread and you have a go at someone - lol

[MurphyTheElf]

Your first entry for someone else's thread and you have a go at someone - lol

Yeah, that's a fair cop. But I avidly read all threads on this forum, and petty narky comments don't bring anything to the table. This clown has a very poor recent track record and I'd like him to pull his head in. I've mentioned it twice already but his behaviour hasn't changed. The fact that his moderator status has been revoked may indicate that somebody agrees with me.

[Blitzen]

Your first entry for someone else's thread and you have a go at someone - lol

x2


Yeah, that's a fair cop. But I avidly read all threads on this forum, and petty narky comments don't bring anything to the table. This clown has a very poor recent track record and I'd like him to pull his head in. I've mentioned it twice already but his behaviour hasn't changed. The fact that his moderator status has been revoked may indicate that somebody agrees with me.

Maybe yes, maybe no...We shall never know...(Humms circus music...), I always wanted to be a circus clown, but I don't have the prerequisite big feet, or nose...Or rosey red cheeks...I do however have the baggy pants...And novelty hanky...

We should go back OT...Up to the OP whether he wants to get the 7,500km service done or not. If you feel that your car is driven under tough conditions, then go for it...At the end of the day its your hard earned cash and your piece of mind.

[MurphyTheElf]

We should go back OT...Up to the OP whether he wants to get the 7,500km service done or not. If you feel that your car is driven under tough conditions, then go for it...At the end of the day its your hard earned cash and your piece of mind.

Well said, sir.

[Golf Mark 6]

Hi Guys,

I know coming from a dealer this will get shrugged off as unsubstantiated dribble but i can assure you that the recommended servicing schedule is and always has been 15,000km/12 months from VGA. There is an option of doing a 7,500km service for those who are adammant the car needs it but in reality it is a waste of good money and the oil is designed to be in there for 15,000km/12 months without any fear of damage or developing issues under normal operating conditions (which would be 80% of owners in OZ). Irrespective of the views given on OS websites, the warranty is honoured by VGA and therefore you should be going by what they deem to be the parameters and that is a minimum of 15,000km or 12 months whichever comes first.

The occassional top up is not uncommon but the car will let you know when it and if it is required.

For a dealer to say that VGA recommend the 7,500km service this is wrong and misleading.

Sorry for dredging up an old thread, but I've just moved and have only been reconnected with the internet today. I just had to thank you so much for the information and your honesty. To all the other posters thank you too for your views.

I'll be servicing at 15,000 as per VGA and the logbook.

[Guest]

For the benefit of everyone - taken from the Volkswagen UK website;



In summary, 15,000 km intervals should be a doddle, ON THE CONDITION that you use an officially approved and certified 504 00/507 00 oil, (click here (http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf) for a list of suitable oils).

DO NOT use any oil that is not on that list except for emergency top up purposes and/or to maintain mobility (at least during the warranty period).
That is all well and good what you are saying and is correct but not here but we dont have longlife service intervals in Australia. We go off what is called QG1 15,000km 1 year in other countries they have it set up for QG2 extended service intervals 30,000km 2 years

[brad]

In regards to the first service, has anyone had a look at the service section in the MFD??

I've had my car a few months now, but the MFD says the service is due at 17,800kms or 444 days :eek:

I'm pretty sure last time I checked it, it showed 16,000 odd km, so it seems to be going up.... :confused:


I had a look through & didn't see a reply to this.

Your services appear to be set for QG1 (variable services). If you can reset the display manually it will default back to QG0/QG2 (fixed) services but will be wrong for your current service period.

Personally, I'd live with it until the next service & get the dealer to reset it properly.

[Diesel_vert]

That is all well and good what you are saying and is correct but not here but we dont have longlife service intervals in Australia. We go off what is called QG1 15,000km 1 year in other countries they have it set up for QG2 extended service intervals 30,000km 2 years

Yeah, I know. And for the record I have never advocated the "LongLife Regime" in Australia.

The reason why I copy and pasted that document was to highlight the quality and robustness of 504 00/507 00 oils. The fact that it can last up to 30,000 km under normal conditions or 15,000 km under severe conditions (i.e. "FOOT TO FLOOR" driving - VW ain't messing about!) is testament to the amount of research and engineering Volkswagen has poured into their engines and lubricants.

It is one of my main arguments why 15,000 km/1 year oil changes should be fine, even if driven in severe conditions - as long as you use 504 00/507 00 oils - that is a big proviso. Even though 502 00 oils can be used, I wouldn't expect it to perform as admirably under the same conditions, especially in the more recent VAG engines (direct injection, etc).

[mfl]

Just to relate what I was told.
When I collected my Golf a couple of weeks ago, the sales rep. said that the car should be serviced every 15,000kms or 12 mths. She also suggested that I check the oil on a regular basis if I felt that way inclined.

The recommended oils for topping up, where Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 or Castrol SW30

[Corey_R]

If you're doing oil top ups, shouldn't you have the exact same oil that is already in there?

Or doesn't it matter if you have Castol SW30 in there and then top it up with Mobile 1 ESP 5w30 for example?

[brad]

If you're doing oil top ups, shouldn't you have the exact same oil that is already in there?

Or doesn't it matter if you have Castol SW30 in there and then top it up with Mobile 1 ESP 5w30 for example?


Doesn't matter.

[G-rig]

15,000km is a bit too far apart.

I change mine every 7,500. It doesn't cost much maybe another $160 per year for the piece of mind.

Although the dealer service guy said you don't need to, but they probably only care about it lasting for 3 years and AUS operating conditions could be considered 'servere' but there are no measurable quantities to that definition.

[barrenjoey owl]

15,000km is a bit too far apart.

I change mine every 7,500. It doesn't cost much maybe another $160 per year for the piece of mind.

Although the dealer service guy said you don't need to, but they probably only care about it lasting for 3 years and AUS operating conditions could be considered 'servere' but there are no measurable quantities to that definition.

I'm not trying to start a war but I'd really appreciate it if you could advise me why you don't believe what the manufacturer says about the oil change frequency. Is there something you can post here?

cheers

[G-rig]

I'm not trying to start a war but I'd really appreciate it if you could advise me why you don't believe what the manufacturer says about the oil change frequency. Is there something you can post here?

cheers

Refer to the first few pages.

[Diesel_vert]

15,000km is a bit too far apart.

I change mine every 7,500. It doesn't cost much maybe another $160 per year for the piece of mind.

Although the dealer service guy said you don't need to, but they probably only care about it lasting for 3 years and AUS operating conditions could be considered 'servere' but there are no measurable quantities to that definition.

Australian conditions are considered severe (driving in Sydney is, anyway) hence the fixed 15,000 km/1 year oil changes.

I'd just change the oil filter and top up every 7,500 km, which should be plenty until the next service. No need to drain the oil every 7,500 km unless you aren't using 504 00/507 00 oils or have more dollars than sense.

That said, checking the oil level every 1,000 km and topping up if necessary is important. One of the caveats with extended service intervals is that some of the maintenance responsibilities (just the little things) fall on the owner. Replenishing fluids, especially oil, in between services play an important role in ensuring the longevity of the vehicle long after the warranty expires.

[G-rig]

My R32 requires 502.00 but as i said "It doesn't hurt" and I'm unsure what the exact terms of 'severe' are. Still a bit odd there is no initial oil change after 1000km?

[Brian]

15,000km is a bit too far apart.

I change mine every 7,500. It doesn't cost much maybe another $160 per year for the piece of mind.

Although the dealer service guy said you don't need to, but they probably only care about it lasting for 3 years and AUS operating conditions could be considered 'servere' but there are no measurable quantities to that definition.
From the Valvoline web site and backed up by a friend who is a Valvoline rep.

"VOLKSWAGEN
Golf 118TSI, 1390cm³ Turbo Eng., 6-Spd. Man/ 7-Spd. DSG (2009)

Crankcase

SYNPOWER XL III 5W-30
A premium, long life synthetic motor oil designed for Volkswagen Euro IV engines with DPF (Diesel Particle Filter) technology. The product can also be used where VW 503.00, 506.00, 506.01 are specified. SynPower XL-III 5W-30 is suitable for engines with WIV system and for extra long drain intervals up to 30.000 Km. or 2 years. SynPower XL-III SAE 5W-30 can be used in modern VW, AUDI, Seat and Skoda gasoline and diesel engines and gives excellent protection even under extreme circumstances."

I feel confident I can do a change at 15K with out detriment to the engine when the oil manufacturer says 30K ("even under extreme circumstances"). To me that is a large margin of error. I'm sure the other spec 504 / 507 oil makers will back it up the same. Dont throw your money away unless you have plenty of it.
Brian

[brad]

Crankcase

SYNPOWER XL III 5W-30
A premium, long life synthetic motor oil designed for Volkswagen Euro IV engines with DPF (Diesel Particle Filter) technology. The product can also be used where VW 503.00, 506.00, 506.01 are specified. SynPower XL-III 5W-30 is suitable for engines with WIV system and for extra long drain intervals up to 30.000 Km. or 2 years. SynPower XL-III SAE 5W-30 can be used in modern VW, AUDI, Seat and Skoda gasoline and diesel engines and gives excellent protection even under extreme circumstances."[/B][/I]

I've got that in my 1.8TSI at the moment. I'd assume because it's 5w and a fraction thinner but I get the tiniest bit (maybe half a second) of lifter rattle on cold start compared to the 10w30 Castrol Edge Sport. Will be trying the 504 spec Shell product next time around.

[G-rig]

I feel confident I can do a change at 15K with out detriment to the engine when the oil manufacturer says 30K ("even under extreme circumstances"). To me that is a large margin of error. I'm sure the other spec 504 / 507 oil makers will back it up the same. Dont throw your money away unless you have plenty of it.
Brian

Well it's your car, and it's not exactly a lot of money at stake.

[Diesel_vert]

My R32 requires 502.00 but as i said "It doesn't hurt" and I'm unsure what the exact terms of 'severe' are. Still a bit odd there is no initial oil change after 1000km?

The penny drops. If you're using 502 00, then naturally, one wouldn't feel confident of it lasting 15,000 km under severe conditions. Also, I don't know of any European manufacturer that still has a 1,000 km oil change.

What I can do is answer your question about "severe conditions" - an extract of my earlier post (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showpost.php?p=426651&postcount=19):

LongLife Regime
To obtain the most benefit from the LongLife service regime, the car should to be generally driven in a style/condition of use listed below:
• Mainly longer distance journeys
• Limited number of cold starts, engine is kept at operating temperature over a longer period of time
• Daily mileage above approx. 40 km
• Constant speed
• Vehicle used regularly

Time/Distance Regime
If your car is driven in a style if listed below, it may be more appropriate to opt for the Time and Distance regime:
• Extremely uneconomical driving style ie continual maximum acceleration ie. ‘foot to floor’
• Vehicle fully loaded
• Mainly short journeys
• Frequent cold starts
• Frequent hill climbs
• Frequent towing
• City centre driving

The LongLife Regime is a flexible service schedule ranging from 15,000 km/1 year to 30,000 km/2 years and anywhere in between as the computer deems necessary.

The Time/Distance Regime is a fixed service schedule of 15,000 km/1 year intervals. The conditions Volkswagen have outlined here are the "severe conditions" you asked about - as driving in Sydney or Melbourne will attest. You can see why Volkswagen decided not to implement the LL Regime here - we city folk basically operate under severe conditions most of the time.

We all know 504 00/507 00 oils can hack it, but we don't know if all 502 00 oils can do likewise (LL Regimes didn't exist when 502 00 was conceived). And since we don't know, then I can see why you feel the need to halve the recommended interval.

[Maverick]

The Time/Distance Regime is a fixed service schedule of 15,000 km/1 year intervals. The conditions Volkswagen have outlined here are the "severe conditions" you asked about - as driving in Sydney or Melbourne will attest. You can see why Volkswagen decided not to implement the LL Regime here - we city folk basically operate under severe conditions most of the time.]

The Volkswagen manuals state 15,000km or 1 year service intervals but under under severe conditions more frequent servicing is required.


We all know 504 00/507 00 oils can hack it, but we don't know if all 502 00 oils can do likewise (LL Regimes didn't exist when 502 00 was conceived). And since we don't know, then I can see why you feel the need to halve the recommended interval.

The oil doesn't come into it, the manual states more frequent servicing if the car is driven under severe conditions.

If the owner chooses to do extra oil changes this is their choice, changing every 7,500km or 6 months is NOT overkill and especially important in the higher powered engines (more so if they are chipped).

More dealers are using 504.00/507.00 oils across the board (except in a few specific models) in their servicing and I would expect over time they will all use 504.00/507.00 oils.

504.00/507.00 isn't a magic elixir, like all oils it holds contaminants, it breaks down and it requires replacement. It may last longer than a 502.00 but under severe conditions the manufacturers instructions which are detailed in black and white in the manual and service software should be followed.

Volkswagen like all manufacturers are under pressure to build greener cars, extended intervals and no 1000km oil change are more to do with reducing oil usage than saving us money and those that keep their car long term would be advised to perform extra oil changes due to the low cost.

[Diesel_vert]

If the owner chooses to do extra oil changes this is their choice, changing every 7,500km or 6 months is NOT overkill and especially important in the higher powered engines (more so if they are chipped).

Of course. Those with modified vehicles are expected to service their car more frequently, at their discretion.


Volkswagen like all manufacturers are under pressure to build greener cars, extended intervals and no 1000km oil change are more to do with reducing oil usage than saving us money...

Indeed, manufacturers are heading that way (which is no bad thing IMHO), but it doesn't mean these new challenges haven't been met.

I've visited the forums at TDIClub and made two observations which are relevant to us.

1. Over a period of more than two years worth of UOA's, the general consensus is that 504/507 oils better protect the engine than the previous 505 01 oils - despite the lower viscosity (30 vs 40), SAPS restriction, lower TBN and (sometimes) fuel economy gains.

- We see here that 504/507 enables better protection (tick) and has better environmental credentials. (tick)

2. From the UOA's that I've seen using these oils, there were some which indicated the oil was near its limit at 9,000 mi (14,000 km), and some which indicated the oil would be good for 15,000 mi (24,000 km). But most were good for around the 10~12,000 mi (16~19,000 km) mark.

- This is real world data showing how well suited these oils are for 15,000 km drain intervals - at least for TDI's, because finding UOA's on FSI engines using 504/507 oils seem to be rarer.

[Bayman]

Lots of info here chaps but I have a 7mth old Tiguan 103TDI and have done 9000kms having been too busy at Christmas to get the oil changed. One guy at the dealer says leave it until 15000kms and the other guy says maybe get it done. I ran my Tiguan on Shell Diesel for 5 mths before swapping to Caltex Diesel Premium Vortex and now I am perplexed as what to do? Is the Diesel in Aust high sulphur? Maybe I get the oil changed at 10000kms anyway? I have been told the oil is thinner from the factory fill and is a mix of mineral oil/synthetic and helps bed in the rings so maybe there is merit in this theory.

Anyone willing to provide ideas which way I should proceed? Thanks

[Corey_R]

Diesel in Australia is higher sulphur than Europe. I believe that the BP Ultimate Diesel is one of the first 'low sulphur' diesels in Australia, but it's not that wide spread yet. I haven't personally heard (or maybe I haven't been paying attention) to what Shell and Caltex are up to with their diesel fuels.

As for this debate... do what the manual says - VW Australia will honour the warranty as long as you've followed that :)

[Diesel_vert]

Diesel in Australia is higher sulphur than Europe. I believe that the BP Ultimate Diesel is one of the first 'low sulphur' diesels in Australia, but it's not that wide spread yet. I haven't personally heard (or maybe I haven't been paying attention) to what Shell and Caltex are up to with their diesel fuels.

By law from 1 January 2009, Australian diesel (and likewise in the EU) cannot have sulfur levels exceeding 10 ppm. BP released it prior to the deadline. Caltex was granted an extension until its refineries were up to 10 ppm sulfur standards (mid-2009). Apart from that, our diesel is very much comparable with the EU. In fact, our petrol is now the dirtier fuel as it still allows 50 ppm of sulfur (EU allows 10 ppm for petrol). These measures were created to reduce particulate matter (PM) emitted from diesel exhaust and prevent the new diesel particulate filters (DPF) from clogging up, but had the side benefit of reducing acid buildup in the engine oil, thus allowing extended drain intervals, even with lower TBN.

As for your car Bayman, Volkswagen's 15,000 km/1 year recommendation is quite alright, as proved by the guys over at TDIClub forums (great knowledge base for all things TDI). Save your time and resources on using the car regularly. :thumbup:

[Bayman]

As for your car Bayman, Volkswagen's 15,000 km/1 year recommendation is quite alright, as proved by the guys over at TDIClub forums (great knowledge base for all things TDI). Save your time and resources on using the car regularly. :thumbup:

Thanks Diesel_vert for your comments. Seems after checking out Caltex and BP websites that ultra low sulphur Diesel fuel is now the norm except BP is slow in spreading their Ultimate down to Victoria. It appears since 2008 fuel price scare, the diesel take up with vehicles and hence fuel outlets has slowed somewhat. The cleaning action of these newer fuels hopefully works as well to keep the engine cleaner.

After even further checks of these forums, it appears your comments hold true but VW need to possibly do better in explaining the truth of the first oil change with new car buyers, rather than just put the fear up "should I - shouldn't I" do a 7500kms oil change. As for subsequent oil changes quite happy to do 15,000kms. After running a 2.5L V6 Telstar for 16 years on Mobil 1 oil since new with its tiny oil passages, I never had any issues doing 10,000 or greater oil changes so I am sold on the ability of modern synthetic oils to withstand greater kms as long as better fuels are used as well. I just hope this factory fill oil is true and not some myth the dealers promote to make one hand over the $280 for a oil change. I'll keep dieseling on then Cheers!

[Transporter]

Lots of info here chaps but I have a 7mth old Tiguan 103TDI and have done 9000kms having been too busy at Christmas to get the oil changed. One guy at the dealer says leave it until 15000kms and the other guy says maybe get it done. I ran my Tiguan on Shell Diesel for 5 mths before swapping to Caltex Diesel Premium Vortex and now I am perplexed as what to do? Is the Diesel in Aust high sulphur? Maybe I get the oil changed at 10000kms anyway? I have been told the oil is thinner from the factory fill and is a mix of mineral oil/synthetic and helps bed in the rings so maybe there is merit in this theory.

Anyone willing to provide ideas which way I should proceed? Thanks

Since the everyone driving conditions are different, get the UOA done for a couple of oil changes and then make you decision :)

In case of my T5 I did 2x UOA, and I am changing engine oil every 7,500km.

[Hail]

I have read somewhere (perhaps the manual) first service at 15,000kms or 12 months whatever comes first.

With a service/check-up at 7,500kms or 6 months whatever comes first, basically check fluid levels and top up as required.