My MK2 GTI on the dyno

[benough]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbcqDiao8rk

[velly_16v_cab]

i have pants headphones in work but was it pinging on the first two runs???


was that power @ wheels?
seems spot on for a stock aussie motor

[benough]

Yeah it was. I advanced the dizzy a touch to get a bit more power but on the dyno it pinged so I wound it back again.

Yeah that's at the wheels.

Mind you it has the MK3 twin exhaust manifold and downpipe, high-flow cat and the airbox silencer removed with a K&N

On the pinging issue. If the timing is a touch advanced can you eradicate the pinging with some octane booster?

[velly_16v_cab]

sometimes, was you running optimax?

but 8v's generaly run a max of 6 degs of advance.

[benough]

Well I always run BP ultimate. Does Optimax give a higher octane count generally?

By octane booster I meant the additive you can buy at the servo

Yeah right. Will get my hands on a gun and do it proper.

[Spyda]

It sounds prity good man. Dont use octain booster, if anything itll make you loose power.

[tommymac]

dman i thought the GTI has more KW at the wheels than that

[tommymac]

edit, just use 98 mate it may help pinging

[velly_16v_cab]

a std 8v (aussie spec) is 100bhp @ fly (pretty poor!!! lol)

there is a tuning guide on clubgti.com/forum for setting up a 8v digi.

i will find it and copy and paste it.

[velly_16v_cab]

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124949&highlight=8v+tuning


Too many people complain about flat performance and 'digi-lag' on their 8vs. Not many people know that this isn't actually
how the car is supposed to run, and is the result of the car not being set up properly. After spending an afternoon setting the timing, idle & CO properly my GTI is like a rocket with instant throttle responce and blistering performance

First thing to do is buy a new Blue temp sender from VW, it only costs £13. It's listed on ETKA as being for cars equipped with a catalyst, but it is the right one for your car! Don't bother with GSF ones as they tend to fail prematurely!
Next replace all the vacuum lines from the inlet manifold, these are VERY important as the Fuel Pressure Regulator is controlled by inlet vacuum, any leaks and it will lag behind the throttle!
Don't forget the blanked off line BEHIND the throttle body, its easy to miss [:Y:]

Invest in an exhaust gas analyser & timing light, it will save you money and time in the long run. Plus you wont have to gamble that your local numpty mechanics know how to set up a Digifant properly!

Idle/CO:
1. Get the engine up to temp, at least 80 degrees on the MFA oil temp display
2. Turn the engine off and remove & plug the intake side of the breather pipe between the 'flying saucer' on the rocker cover & air intake
3. Hold the MFA button in and turn the ignition on, off and on again, then start the car. This puts the MFA into a 'secret' mode. Put the MFA switch to setting 2 and press the button till you get the digital rev counter, position 2 I think
4. Unplug the blue temp sender and rev the engine cleanly over 3k rpm 3 times, letting it return to idle each time.
5. Check the RPM display, adjust the idle with the idle screw on the throttle body to about 850-900 rpm. Clockwise to decrease, anticlockwise to increase
6. If you have a CO meter, block off one of the talipipes (i use a load of duck tape) and shove the probe up the pipe. Follow the manufacturers instructions, and set the CO to about 1.8ish using the allen screw on the MAF, clockwise to increase, anticlockwise to decrease. NOTE: You must take the reading when the rad fan ISN'T running, once it cuts in it'll throw outr the reading a little!

If you don't have a CO meter, turn the screw in until the engine starts to sound rough then back it out gradually till the idle sounds smooth & even. Check the aerial or bonnet stay for vibration, you want it smooth as possible. This will get you close, then take it to a garage to get it set properly.
7. Reset the idle to 850-900 rpm if it has changed, and adjust the CO accordingly, repeat till you get 1.8 at 850-900 rpm

Timing:
1. Take out spark plug #1 and turn the engine over by hand with a spanner on the crank pulley nut until the piston reaches the top of its travel. Check by either shining a torch doen the hole or putting summat long & thin down there like a dowl rod.
2. Next check the punched hole on the inside of the camshaft sproket lines up with the head surface, with the cam cover removed. If not slacken the tensoner and move to suit.
3. Take the dizzy cap off and make sure the rotor arm is lined up with the mark on the dizzy, which should correspond to spark plug lead #1, if not loosen the tensioner and turn the intermediate shaft. This is a little tricky with the cambelt cover in place, though I managed to do it by removing the bolt here and bending the cover outwards.

Once you've done all that the timing should be pretty close, the next step is to set the dizzy advance. You MUST set the timing to the factory spec, 6 deg BTDC, there is no need to set any further advance as this is done automatically by the ECU. If you don't set it to factory spec, you'll likely REDUCE performance & MPG as the ECU cannot adjust the timing properly.

Heres a nice pic of the marks you're looking for, shamelessly stolen from the vortex, link found by the legendary 'TSC' from ClubGTI
You can see the arrow on the gearbox casing, the large notch with a bit of red paint is the 6degree BTDC mark, and the small round 'dent' to the right is the TDC timing mark. Before you start I'd highlight both marks with tippex to make them more visible

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/11/flywheelmark-1.jpg

1. Remove the green plastic screw in cap in the top of the gearbox, not just the little seethru cap in the middle, the hole isn't big enough to see the timing marks.
2. Get the engine up to temp, at least 80 degrees on the MFA oil temp display and turn the engine off
3. Hook up your timing light as per the manufacturers instructions
4. Start the engine again, switching on the 'secret' MFA rev counter if desired as per above, then disconnect the blue temp sender
5. Rev the engine between 2k-2.5k, and point the timing light into the hole, the 6 degree BTDC mark should now be aligned, if not loosen the dizzy clamp bolt and turn the dizzy as required
6. Rev the engine to 2.5k again, then reconnect the blue temp sensor. The timing should advance by about 30 degrees
7. If the timing only advances about 20 degrees, loosen the knock sensor bolt and retighten to 20 Nm (15 Ibf ft) and repeat. If there is still no improvement, check the wiring and if this is ok replace the knock sensor.
If there is no advance at all, check the wiring to the blue temp sensor.

[robiom]

Cheers Velly.
Mine could do with some tlc. Will give it a go once I replace the cambelt in the next week or 2.
Could do with bining the std exh manifold at the same time....MK3 ft pipe and manifold anywhere anyone ?

[velly_16v_cab]

16v kid had a mk3 manifold and downpipe for sale a while ago ;)

i am going to order a timing gun and co meter and get mk mk2 set up.

Lets make 2010 the year of the mk2's!!!!

[Spyda]

i am going to order a timing gun and co meter and get mk mk2 set up.


Can i borrow them haha.

[velly_16v_cab]

lol..no worries bro. once i can get my head around setting it up we can do yours too...

when is your mk2 going to be back on the road?

[AusScare]

Car looks good on the dyno!

But yeah, not the fastest cars unfortunately the mk2s. A vr6/turbo conversion is the only fix.

[velly_16v_cab]

i like your style ;)

[benough]

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124949&highlight=8v+tuning

I had Julian tune mine and I am pretty sure he has done the high majority of that.

Man I thought this forum was dead but it looks like a bunch of people standing around waiting for something to happen! :rolleyes:

[velly_16v_cab]

Man I thought this forum was dead but it looks like a bunch of people standing around waiting for something to happen! :rolleyes:

HAHAHA.... that really does discribe this place!!!

[gldgti]

hey benough,
shame I missed your mk2 on the dyno - i had to leave about 1:30 not long after my mk1 ran.

Just wondering, seems that your torque/power curve is quite different from mine (same engine). my vid is posted in the mk1 section.

[static1800]

I've heard that Digi leans out a little in mid range, could that explain the curve?

[Spyda]

I've heard that Digi leans out a little in mid range, could that explain the curve?

Some chips usaly fix that.

How much does it cost to run the car on the dyno and what does it include with it? I want to give my mk2 a run when i get a RWC.

[static1800]

Yeah I had a chip in my mk2 that claimed to iron out the mid range problem, no proof that it did though.

[Spyda]

The ebay chip claimed the same thing but all it realy did was get rid of digi lag.

There is a serious chip out there that gives actual gains in all areas, it requires you to adjust the timing and costs about $250.