Gear change speeds

[newtogolf]

Hi guys,

I've just picked up my 118 TSI manual. The book doesn't seem to have any where that suggests what the optimum speed/revs to shift. Any suggestions or am I missing something in the manual?

BTW so far this car is amazing.

[Maverick]

Optimum for what?

If you want performance you change up just before the acceleration starts to slow. If you want fuel economy you change up the gears as soon as the engine lets you.

Just drive the car and you'll soon work out the best points to change for your driving.

[coastie]

Change before your reach 8000 rpm:eek:

[mickofoz]

There are videos on the German VW site on fuel economy and how to drive your manual car to achieve best fuel economy. I assume you don't speak german. According to VW, you should be in 4th gear by the time you hit 40km/h and always drive in the highest gear. The more you coast in gear, the more fuel you'll save as the fuel supply is completely shut off if you coast while you are still in gear. Even coasting for small streches, it adds up over a tank full. I have gained about 100km out of one tank this way. It's not much fun while you're driving but alot of fun at the bowser. You'll soon get used to the low revs and it becomes "normal".

[guliver_twist]

Could you please post a link to the vids?

[cme2c]

There's a pdf in english http://www.volkswagen.com/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/de/Unternehmen/mobilitaet_und_nachhaltigkeit/downloads/spritspartipps.Par.0008.File.pdf/effizient_unterwegs.pdf

How come only Bluemotion gets change up indicators in the MFD?

[Corey_R]

Because it's a gimmicky feature.

You're not supposed to be driving along with your eyes on the MFD, but on the road. And it's to save fuel instead of add performance.

[mickofoz]

Here is the link to the German Video site:
http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/de3/unternehmen/video.html
Once the page has loaded, click on "Ökonomie trift Ökologie" and then "Spritspartraining". Enjoy

[cktsi]

When I owned a Mk5 2.0 FSI manual, I found it instructive to see when the 2.0 auto gearbox was changing. I got a 2.0FSI auto as a loan car at various times when servicing my Mk5.

Before I drove the auto I was shifting around 2,300rpm, but realised that the auto was letting the engine change around 2,000rpm for most of the shifts.

I then had a ‘rule’ that basically is 10km/h for each gear on level road. So 1st gear max is 10km/h, 2nd is 20km/h etc… so by 60km/h I would be in 6th. For inclines my rule was 15km/h per gearchange. Btw… these speeds are the one on the speedo, not actual speed which is actually lower than the speedo’s reading.

The result is I was shifting probably around 1,900 rpm in the 2.0FSI.

The 7spd DSG on the 118TSI is nearly following this rule… but its aggressive rush to higher gears means under light to moderate acceleration it’s doing around 8km/h per gear change…. So on level road the DSG is in D7 when doing 56km/h! (and realise this is the speedo readout which is higher than actual speed)

I mention the DSG as it’s indicative what VW have programmed as an acceptable compromise between fuel efficiency and not allowing the engine to labour too much.

So I reckon the 1 gear per 10km/h rule isn’t too bad since you’d be doing 6th at 60km/h in top gear

I use the tiptronic majority of the time (ie shift my own gears) and follow this rule (except the DSG won’t let me go to 2nd until at least 15km/h when I’d rather shift at 10km/h) and always shift around 1,900rpm.

This is just my personal opinion on the topic.

Oh, in rpm terms, the DSG is progressively shifting at lower rpms in the higher gears…. Something like 1,900 rpm 1,700rpm, 1,600rpm 1,500rpm 1,400rpm 1,300rpm

[Lima]

Because it's a gimmicky feature.

You're not supposed to be driving along with your eyes on the MFD, but on the road. And it's to save fuel instead of add performance.

Yep, the S3 (6sp manuals) have this. It recommends to change gear between 1500-2000rpm.

[Corey_R]

So I reckon the 1 gear per 10km/h rule isn’t too bad since you’d be doing 6th at 60km/h in top gear

Yeah - this is what my Golf GTI with 6Spd DSG did too. It worked fine.
I basically follow that when conserving fuel in my Polo GTI with its 5 speed manual... except 5th gear on a hill at 50km/h is a bit low for the Polo :)

[newtogolf]

Thanks guys for the responses.

I would never of thought to be in 6th gear at 60km!

[Stealthy]

Don't know if I'd try it in the TDI though.
I struggle to cruise at 60(ish)km/h in 4th gear!
I only ever use 6th gear travelling at over 100km/h.

[cube_3]

As the others have said gearing earlier is better for fuel economy but personally I think the car feels more sluggish gearing to early and is probably best suited to Freeway driving. I go for a blend of performance / economy.
I have a 1.6 MK4 manual and travel 100Ks a day (to and from work). Its about 40% stop start and 60% freeway, and then weekends is the general suburban start / stop, shops etc. I mix up the traffic lights, sometime smooth and sometimes with a bit of oomph just to make sure the old girl is alive.
I have a long term average of 6.1Litres/100Km doing this. Its all about listening to the engine and I generally find the upshift to 2nd is between 10 and 20Km, 3rd at 40Km, 4th at 60Km and 5th at 80Km.
I reckon If I had the 118TSI I'd be doing close to 5L/100Km .... now if I could just get my hands on one :)

[Corey_R]

The 1.6 MK4 is a non-turbo right? (sorry, forgive me, my knowledge of the MK4 is not great). That's the speeds that I used to do with my previous NA cars. The 6 speed turbo VW's are different though. As stated above, upshift to 2nd ~20, and then 3rd 30, 4th 40, 5th 50, 6th 60 etc. That is literally what the DSG does for economy, so can't be too wrong ;)

[cktsi]

The 1.6 MK4 is a non-turbo right? (sorry, forgive me, my knowledge of the MK4 is not great). That's the speeds that I used to do with my previous NA cars. The 6 speed turbo VW's are different though. As stated above, upshift to 2nd ~20, and then 3rd 30, 4th 40, 5th 50, 6th 60 etc. That is literally what the DSG does for economy, so can't be too wrong ;)

Not to mention the 2.0FSI is in a different league to the 1.6 NA. I've driven an auto 1.6 mk4 NA before as a VW loan car... lived with it for 3 weeks... the shift points definitely need to be higher than the 2.0 FSI or any turbo vehicle.

The 118TSI in particular has 200Nm of torque coming on at 1,200rpm (200nm is the max output of the 2.0 FSI )

[cme2c]

Not to mention the 2.0FSI is in a different league to the 1.6 NA. I've driven an auto 1.6 mk4 NA before as a VW loan car... lived with it for 3 weeks... the shift points definitely need to be higher than the 2.0 FSI or any turbo vehicle.

The 118TSI in particular has 200Nm of torque coming on at 1,200rpm (200nm is the max output of the 2.0 FSI )

Yes, it's amazing. When I contrast the 200Nm @1200rpm (and 240Nm 155-4500rpm!) in my wife's 118TSI with the 190Nm@ 4100 rpm in my NA 2.0l Peugeot 206GTi I'm gobsmacked. The Peugeot gets up and goes, as long as you have 3000 rpm up. (it is 250Kg lighter). When I get back into it, I think there is something wrong.

[guliver_twist]

Hi All,

I tried following the instructions in the PDF in regards to fuel economy, and shifted every 10 km/h 2nd at 20, 3rd at 30, 4th at 40, 5th at 50, 6th at 60... and to be honest was not happy....The car drove ok, but i just somehow felt like the engine was really labouring/(vibrating more than I felt comftorable with)....
Did the same thing but shifted a little higher... so 5th at 60 and found the car to perform much smoother....
doing a fair bit of highway driving and some start stop I found the average to be around low 6L /100km as according to the car display...

I also set my tires at 38PSI (I have the sports pack)...
Just my 5c....
Cheers!


:)

[cube_3]

Yes the 1.6 is NA and is not in the class of the newer FSI and Turbo engines ... I mean the design is over 10 years old! Is still prefer changing a bit later as the ride feels smoother, less laboured and more invigorating. I drove a Subaru Liberty a couple years ago as a service loan car. It has a 2.5 NA engine I believe and its auto changed up to 5th by 50Km/h and it just felt so underpowered and "floaty". Each to their own I suppose.

[Corey_R]

Yes the 1.6 is NA and is not in the class of the newer FSI and Turbo engines ... I mean the design is over 10 years old! Is still prefer changing a bit later as the ride feels smoother, less laboured and more invigorating. I drove a Subaru Liberty a couple years ago as a service loan car. It has a 2.5 NA engine I believe and its auto changed up to 5th by 50Km/h and it just felt so underpowered and "floaty". Each to their own I suppose.

The thing is that you're still comparing apples to oranges. In my Golf GTI with the 2L Turbo, it never felt underpowered and floaty changing into 6th by 60km/h. Yet, like you've stated, almost any other car that would be a silly thing to do.
You should really go test drive one so you understand what everyone else is saying before trying to tell everyone that they're doing something wrong :)

[cktsi]

Reading all these posts made me realise I should restate my suggestion to Newtogolf another way.... if you experiment with different change points, you will soon figure out the revs that the engine falls to AFTER the gear change.

Anyone who owns a 118TSI would agree that at least 1,500 rpm AFTER a gear change will give you just enough performance for day to day suburban driving (in the gear you have shifted TO). 1500rpm happens to be around where max torque is occurring to give you the additional comfort you're not "stressing the engine"... so I say just shift at whatever point happens to give you at least 1,500rpm. That will give you the blend of economy & performance you are looking for.

I've noticed that shifting around 1,900rpm happens to give you this result - but it depends on each gear - but this is a general rule. Of course the rpm's you give will depend on situations such as whether your on a hill, whether you have momentum etc etc

For instance, if you're going downhill, 1,200 rpm is enough to get you going. If you're going uphill, you may want more than 1,500rpm to 'start' with (but I'm amazed that 1,500rpm is enough after a bit of experimentation).

Those who haven't driven an FSI based vehicle recently, you will be amazed at how responsive the engines are these days at low revs. My mk5 2.0 FSI was a revelation. A test drive will put a shock :eek: and grin on your face like countless mk5/mk6 owners with an FSI based engine (I'm including the turbo & TSI engines in this statement as they all use direct injection)

[cube_3]

The thing is that you're still comparing apples to oranges. In my Golf GTI with the 2L Turbo, it never felt underpowered and floaty changing into 6th by 60km/h. Yet, like you've stated, almost any other car that would be a silly thing to do.
You should really go test drive one so you understand what everyone else is saying before trying to tell everyone that they're doing something wrong :)

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying everyone else is doing it wrong, I just have not had the joy have driving the turbo's yet, and it just seems a strange concept in my life of only NA engine experience. Hopefully that will all change in the near future :)

[cme2c]

Reading all these posts made me realise I should restate my suggestion to Newtogolf another way.... if you experiment with different change points, you will soon figure out the revs that the engine falls to AFTER the gear change.



An excellent observation. When you put it that way, both the Golf and my Peugeot do the same thing in different ways. The DSG in the 118TSI as you say puts the engine at maximum torque AFTER the gear change. Similarly , if I change gear in my Peugeot at max power (5500 rpm approx) after the change it is at about 4000 (max torque 4100).