7 sp DSG niggle.

[cme2c]

A really minor thing, but I wonder if anyone else has experienced it. If I take off from a standstill moderately in D, the DSG appears to change from 1 -2 followed very quickly by 2-3 causing a slight but noticeable hesitation almost like a misfire (but it's not). Anyone else experienced this?

[thamwk]

i believe this is the DSG qualms that many car reviewers are talking about. i get the same thing, but you learn to adapt after a while... and the quick change in gears is just the programming of D, seeing that it is trying to save you fuel.

but of cos when you move to S it all goes away :)

[cktsi]

A really minor thing, but I wonder if anyone else has experienced it. If I take off from a standstill moderately in D, the DSG appears to change from 1 -2 followed very quickly by 2-3 causing a slight but noticeable hesitation almost like a misfire (but it's not). Anyone else experienced this?

When you say hesitation, do you mean you get no "drive" as if the car is in neutral? Or do you mean a 'bunny hop" or lurch that is like something from a misfire?

[cme2c]

When you say hesitation, do you mean you get no "drive" as if the car is in neutral? Or do you mean a 'bunny hop" or lurch that is like something from a misfire?

It's more like something from a misfire, but not as bad. I have had cars in the past that misfired. Usually needed to adjust the points....
Like I said, no big deal, just a little niggle. And oh yeah in S no problem. Of course I am a bit hesitant to use S too much on a car with less than 1000 kms on the odo.

[anthony_VWJET]

It's more like something from a misfire, but not as bad. I have had cars in the past that misfired. Usually needed to adjust the points....
Like I said, no big deal, just a little niggle. And oh yeah in S no problem. Of course I am a bit hesitant to use S too much on a car with less than 1000 kms on the odo.

Fill the shoes with a bit more lead and that should take care of the problem! :rolleyes:

[gerhard]

^^ Correct.

You aren't giving it enough juice.

[scotty1991]

Sport wont ruin your car by using it before 1000km's, use it if you wish
Its a good idea to run a varied range of revs when running the engine in, not keep it all down low.

[cme2c]

Fill the shoes with a bit more lead and that should take care of the problem! :rolleyes:

and possibly the car in front:brutal:

[gerhard]

and possibly the car in front:brutal:

I don't have that problem in my GTI, and you car is slower :banana::banana:

[cme2c]

Sport wont ruin your car by using it before 1000km's, use it if you wish
Its a good idea to run a varied range of revs when running the engine in, not keep it all down low.

Thanks. Trying to vary speeds etc. Traditionally I have given engines _occasional_ full throttle in the second 500 kms on a new engine, to seat the rings..

They have always given me good service. An example is a Volvo 2.3 l 4 that i had for 200,000 kms in 2 years. It still used less than 1l of oil between 10, 000 km changes.

This is the first supercharged engine though so I wonder about cylinder pressures. Also, in sport it tends to change at 5000 revs. At 60ks its in 4th, not 7th. This is cool, but 5000 revs on a new engine?

[anthony_VWJET]

I don't have that problem in my GTI, and you car is slower :banana::banana:

:stupid: plus im not sure where you're looking, but if i see myself heading into the car in front of me, i usually step on the brake... :P

[cme2c]

I don't have that problem in my GTI, and you car is slower :banana::banana:

:tear::tear::tear:

[cme2c]

:stupid: plus im not sure where you're looking, but if i see myself heading into the car in front of me, i usually step on the brake... :P

Note to self. Look at road, not MFD.:emo_baghead:

[gerhard]

Thanks. Trying to vary speeds etc. Traditionally I have given engines _occasional_ full throttle in the second 500 kms on a new engine, to seat the rings..

They have always given me good service. An example is a Volvo 2.3 l 4 that i had for 200,000 kms in 2 years. It still used less than 1l of oil between 10, 000 km changes.

This is the first supercharged engine though so I wonder about cylinder pressures. Also, in sport it tends to change at 5000 revs. At 60ks its in 4th, not 7th. This is cool, but 5000 revs on a new engine?

VW has already had it past 5000 as it goes onto the rolling road at the end of the production line. 10-15ks it gets a real workout with heavy resistance, revs, etc.

You won't hurt it now.

[coastie]

Have you tried resetting the DSG? With the vehicle stopped and engine turned off press the accelerator completely to the floor including the lower stage where you feel the click and hold it for about 10-15 seconds. this will reset the DSG and it will relearn.

[logger]

A really minor thing, but I wonder if anyone else has experienced it. If I take off from a standstill moderately in D, the DSG appears to change from 1 -2 followed very quickly by 2-3 causing a slight but noticeable hesitation almost like a misfire (but it's not). Anyone else experienced this?
Yes, I use to get caught out with an occasional hesitation on launch but it disappeared once I got my APR tune.

[cme2c]

Have you tried resetting the DSG? With the vehicle stopped and engine turned off press the accelerator completely to the floor including the lower stage where you feel the click and hold it for about 10-15 seconds. this will reset the DSG and it will relearn.

Aaaaah! You might be onto something. This behavior happened after being on the freeway for over an hour, then hitting traffic. I wonder if the DSG has "relearnt" now that my wife has been driving it around the suburbs for the past few days. She always complained that the auto in her Peugeot 307 was rough for a while after I had driven the car, so it may be the learning behaviour. No such problem with the Honda Accord euro she had between the Peugeot and the Golf. I'll stick with my manual GTi (note small i).

[cme2c]

Yes, I use to get caught out with an occasional hesitation on launch but it disappeared once I got my APR tune.

Look, logger, this is my wife's car and I have enough trouble keeping up with it now! It's amazing how anaemic my 206GTi feels under 3000 revs when you've had 240Nm at 1500 for a few days.

[sillygogo]

YeaH...me experiencing the same with the DSG. VW said its normal for the 7speed DSG to save fuel.

Learning to live with it...I found that Gas, let go little and more Gas makes it smoother.

Some members found APR resolve this hesitation.

[mr gee]

A really minor thing, but I wonder if anyone else has experienced it. If I take off from a standstill moderately in D, the DSG appears to change from 1 -2 followed very quickly by 2-3 causing a slight but noticeable hesitation almost like a misfire (but it's not). Anyone else experienced this?

Mine does that as well
not sure why.
does yours have a slight miss when starting and idling when its cold?
heard there's a engine management reprogram for that

[cme2c]

Mine does that as well
not sure why.
does yours have a slight miss when starting and idling when its cold?
heard there's a engine management reprogram for that

No, it's fine, but thanks. All information gratefully accepted.

[Golf Mark 6]

Have you tried resetting the DSG? With the vehicle stopped and engine turned off press the accelerator completely to the floor including the lower stage where you feel the click and hold it for about 10-15 seconds. this will reset the DSG and it will relearn.

Does that mean it returns to factory settings? What sort of data does the DSG "learn"?

[cme2c]

Coastie appears to be correct. After my wife has been driving round the suburbs for a week, the DSG behaves much better. Also, now it has over 1000km on the clock, I found out the traction control works. :)

[geojack555]

I had a similar issue with my DSG in 118TSI after driving for less than a month. The gear seems to be disengaged (or kicked automatically to Neutral) and all it was doing was reving up the engine in the middle of the road. I was really scared as I was trying to cross the intersection. It happened to me again twice later just after few mins when I start the journey. Took it to VW dealer and they said they have not yet heard any similar issues. Later they spoke with VW AU office and did a software reset on DSG. I later found that there were similar issues reported for old generation DSG boxes in US/CA and they were trying to write a petetion to the Govt authorities.

[cme2c]

I had a similar issue with my DSG in 118TSI after driving for less than a month. The gear seems to be disengaged (or kicked automatically to Neutral) and all it was doing was reving up the engine in the middle of the road. I was really scared as I was trying to cross the intersection. It happened to me again twice later just after few mins when I start the journey. Took it to VW dealer and they said they have not yet heard any similar issues. Later they spoke with VW AU office and did a software reset on DSG. I later found that there were similar issues reported for old generation DSG boxes in US/CA and they were trying to write a petetion to the Govt authorities.

The USA problem is known as the "flash of death" and seems to apply to 6 speed DSGs. I have not been able to find reports of it happening in Australia, despite looking for them. The 118TSI is my wife's car and we had trouble with a previous car (not a VW) which would go onto 3 cylinders for no apparent reason. Almost as scary as what happened to you. Since then I research for reports of trouble before buying a car.

[MIRSAD]

DSG problems in USA reports:

http://www.autoinsane.com/2009/08/31/news/recalls-tsbs/vw-dsg-reader-stories-round-3-flash-of-death-woes-lead-to-brand-new-recall/

http://www.autoinsane.com/2009/08/28/news/recalls-tsbs/volkswagen-recalls-53300-new-vehicles-announces-service-program-to-address-dsg-complaints/

[logger]

DSG problems in USA reports...
Which of course pertain to the DSG6 -remember the DSG7 is not available there. If you happen to have a DSG7 in your Mk6 I would not draw too much correlation. They are quite different. Wet Clutch vs Dry Clutch, Different Mechatronic unit, different controller, 3 gear spools vs 2. etc etc.

[MIRSAD]

logger

I dig up this report before I purchased my MK6 GTI, show that report to dealer but he told me that it is MK5 GTI problem ... I thought that DSG from MK5 is used in MK6 GTI or ...
(I am really not technical person)

[logger]

No - I think you are quite correct, it is used in the Mk6 GTI which has the DSG6. Just that is not in the Mk6 TSI sold here in Australia. So while it might be relevant to your config, it is not to those of us with the Twincharger which has the DSG7.

[MIRSAD]

Actually
I traded my 118TSI with DSG7 (because with problems with that squeak - that recorded on Youtube, water pump replaced, and also other, not frequent noise, (only 20 times) but disturbing - like exhaust system is violently shaking)

Because of that,before purchase I did research about MK6 GTI - only negative thing that I dig up from Europe was from one person in UK ("what car" website)
and that report from USA - but nothing reported about that in other countries.

That problem in USA is looking serious and I couldn't find any reports about that from Europe or Australia

[Stoney!]

I think you will find its the supercharger, it does it to me even in the manual sometimes.... The supercharger will sometimes cut in after a gear change if the revs are low but then instantly think its not needed if your being easy on the gas and therefore cut out. The the quick pause your feeling for a literally a second is the time between the supercharger cutting out and the turbo coming on boost.

Take it out into a REALLY quiet area, probably at night time and see if you can hear the supercharger or the supercharger clutch (the clicking sound as it cuts in and out) following the trend mentioned above, I think you will find this is exactly what it is. Also listen for the slight whistle (or whoosh) of the turbo directly after.

Stoney!

[Stoney!]

Anyone else with a manual or DSG 118tsi agree with the above sentiments?

I even had it do it to me on the demo I drove 4 or 5 months ago, so its completely normal, and I think what I've written above is exactly what it is.... I've even had it when driving hard before.....

Stoney!

[logger]

..The supercharger will sometimes cut in after a gear change if the revs are low but then instantly think its not needed if your being easy on the gas and therefore cut out. The the quick pause your feeling for a literally a second is the time between the supercharger cutting out and the turbo coming on boost...
Anyone else with a manual or DSG 118tsi agree with the above sentiments? I am not so sure. I tend to disagree for several reasons.
Firstly the simplistic reason - you are describing turbo lag which is the very thing the engines configuration was designed to prevent.
Secondly along more technical lines, the supercharger does not just cut out at low revs when there there is no demand for boost. If the revs are below 2400 it can in principal run continuously (except for very low load) providing for the regulating flap to modulate closed in ~ 0.2 sec to rapidly boost the engine. Hence the design to avoid turbo lag. With part throttle and revs at 1200 pressing the acellerator will readily increase the boost from 1000 to over 2000mbar in 2 secs. No lag.

Also I think most people will be surprised how briefly the supercharger is used as compared to how often it runs. For example it may boost the engine for as little as 2 seconds as the engine accelerates, before the modulating flap opens allowing the turbo to assume the boost load. There is no bump in the boost pressure as this happens. It is all done smoothly. From what I have observed the supercharger boost generally cuts out before 2400 rpm although it can run up to 3500rpm apparently. It will not run above ~3500 so that it does not $hit itself. It will be doing 17,500rpm at this point!!

BTW I have never heard the clutch clicking noise (must be one of the lucky ones) but I can certainly hear the modulating flap noise when I turn the IGN on and perhaps this is what you can hear in a quite environment with the engine running at low revs.

My guess is CME2C's DSG niggle/lag/pause is more related to how the DSG processes the gear changes and controls the engine torque while doing so. I know from looking at the clutches that it is not uncommon for it to slip the K1 clutch all the way through 1st until it engages K2 for second - So the 1st to 2nd change will happen really quick and early and imperceptibly. It never fully got into 1st you see. At this point is will be in 2nd with K2 engaged without slip, it will have selected 3rd and swap the clutches to take K1 again and 3rd without slip. So possibly it deals with the 1-2 change differently to the 2-3 change. As the DSG7 effects and control the engine torque it could quite will be doing slightly different things for each of the changes. For instance a greater torque drop for the 2-3 change would show up as a pause to the driver. For the 1-2 change as both clutches are slipping the whole way little or no torque drop as the change occurs. Anyway just an idea.

[MaccaTSI]

I think my car does this as well. But I'm not sure if it's the same issue.

Sometimes if I accelerate hard after I've been cruising along, to overtake or something, I'll hit the accelerator and it will rev from about 2k - 4k before accelerating. I thought it was just downshifting before accelerating and that's what was causing the pause, but the other day after reading this I noticed it was staying in the same gear.

It's probably only a one second pause.

Is that the same thing??

[logger]

I am not sure. Doesn't make a lot of sense - Eng rpm doubling without accelerating when in a constant gear, unless a clutch is being slipped.

Here is a small xls spreadsheet showing Supercharger regulation (http://www.nimblefeet.com/QF/Supercharger%20regulation.xls) during a 2 minute drive. It shows to some degree how quickly the supercharger can build the boost. Also shows how briefly it is actually used. May be of interests to some of you.

[MaccaTSI]

It's not like it just doubles, it accelerates a bit but doesn't fully kick in I guess, like it goes a bit, then at 4000 it really accelerates.

I'll have a play around and see if it's just me, have only just noticed it so haven't had a chance to really test it.

Thanks for the info logger, I'll have a read through it

[CatonaPC©]

Have you tried resetting the DSG? With the vehicle stopped and engine turned off press the accelerator completely to the floor . . ..

This is not true. You need a VAGCOM setup to do this and it's a lengthy procedure, I have been told. The above procedure is supposedly something one could do to reset the throttle range. It's most likely a myth.

[cme2c]

I am not sure. Doesn't make a lot of sense - Eng rpm doubling without accelerating when in a constant gear, unless a clutch is being slipped.

Here is a small xls spreadsheet showing Supercharger regulation (http://www.nimblefeet.com/QF/Supercharger%20regulation.xls) during a 2 minute drive. It shows to some degree how quickly the supercharger can build the boost. Also shows how briefly it is actually used. May be of interests to some of you.

Thanks for that, logger, it's really interesting. Seems like an expensive solution to turbo lag from the larger turbo (than the 90TSI) . It certainly works, though. Having driven the GTI which is almost lag free, the 118 is better IMHO.

[logger]

Yes I agree - it certainly seems to work very nicely. I have no complaints and I am very much enjoying the car. Really is surprising how little the S-Charger is used though

[mr gee]

Logger
can you determine when the supercharger clutch activates?

I think the hesitation could be due to the drag when the clutch activates at around 1000rpm before boost compensates. it certainly not so evident when a purposeful prod of the accelerator is used.

[logger]

Logger
can you determine when the supercharger clutch activates? No unfortunately. Thats the one piece of the jigsaw that still has me beat.

I reckon there may be a gap between supercharger clutch engaging and the regulating flap closing to load it up. So I am not sure how much "drag" there would be on engagement. But I cannot know this for sure until I work out how to watch either the PWM or the clutch voltage.

[Stoney!]

Has anyone else noticed (manual) that sometimes when you enter a corner in gear above say 1500 rpm and with foot flat to the floor it feels a bit numb whilst waiting for the turbo to boost, i thought the supercharger was supposed to kick in at call to cover the turbo lag?

Stoney!

[mr gee]

If I enter a tight corner, I drop to "S" mode so that I get a lower gear to deal with that

[Stoney!]

Sorry but what a silly reply, it contributed nothing to the topic of conversation, I already stated I have a manual and was asking why the supercharger wasn't compensating for the turbo lag as its supposed to, good on you for knocking it back a gear, i could do that too but choose not too.

Stoney!

[cktsi]

Has anyone else noticed (manual) that sometimes when you enter a corner in gear above say 1500 rpm and with foot flat to the floor it feels a bit numb whilst waiting for the turbo to boost, i thought the supercharger was supposed to kick in at call to cover the turbo lag?

Stoney!

I know you're looking for a response from a manual driver, but oftentimes I'm driving only with the tiptronic on the DSG, so characteristics should be similar since it's also a clutch setup in the transmission (though the ratios are different). So thought to ask a question & write something about my observations.

Which gear are you in when this happens and are you specifically asking about corners because it only happens in corners? I've played around a bit in straight lines and noticed that the car is more responsive in the 1500rpm rev range between different gears (that goes without saying - duh)... but the point is.... it is quite striking how much the difference is.

The engine spins like a feral in 1st & 2nd, but in 3rd gear it's nowhere near the push in the back sensation I get from 1st & 2nd.

[RW1]

Have you tried resetting the DSG? With the vehicle stopped and engine turned off press the accelerator completely to the floor including the lower stage where you feel the click and hold it for about 10-15 seconds. this will reset the DSG and it will relearn.

This seems to be the first posting of this procedure for the 7 speed DSG on here. Where did you pick it up from?

C.

[dubsub]

I have suffered the problem known as the "Flash of Death" in my Australian Mk5 R32. Volkswagen have tried to fix it on numerous occasions and so far have been unable to.

Has anyone else experienced the same problem?


Actually
I traded my 118TSI with DSG7 (because with problems with that squeak - that recorded on Youtube, water pump replaced, and also other, not frequent noise, (only 20 times) but disturbing - like exhaust system is violently shaking)

Because of that,before purchase I did research about MK6 GTI - only negative thing that I dig up from Europe was from one person in UK ("what car" website)
and that report from USA - but nothing reported about that in other countries.

That problem in USA is looking serious and I couldn't find any reports about that from Europe or Australia


DSG problems in USA reports:

http://www.autoinsane.com/2009/08/31/news/recalls-tsbs/vw-dsg-reader-stories-round-3-flash-of-death-woes-lead-to-brand-new-recall/

http://www.autoinsane.com/2009/08/28/news/recalls-tsbs/volkswagen-recalls-53300-new-vehicles-announces-service-program-to-address-dsg-complaints/


The USA problem is known as the "flash of death" and seems to apply to 6 speed DSGs. I have not been able to find reports of it happening in Australia, despite looking for them. The 118TSI is my wife's car and we had trouble with a previous car (not a VW) which would go onto 3 cylinders for no apparent reason. Almost as scary as what happened to you. Since then I research for reports of trouble before buying a car.