2.0 Twin turbo diesel

[Stoney!]

A recent article on the updated T5 to be released next year with a golf6 style nose and upgraded engines really had me thinking. You see the upgraded engines included a new 132kw, 400nm Twin turbo 2 litre Common rail direct injection diesel.

It makes you wonder why they didn't earmark this for the GTD golf being a much better match for the GTi and not to mention the performance you would probably get out of it also.... Being twin turbo (one small one large turbo) turbo lag would be nigh non existant also.

Anyone else's thoughts?

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2009/commercial/volkswagen/transporter/volkswagen-transporter-t5-new-generation-16785

Also on a side note, a first for the T5, now sports a 7 speed dsg!

Stoney!

[team_v]

The engine is also slotted for the Amarok Ute.

I don't think it would fit in the engine bay of a Golf, hence why it is in the commercial range.

Also it probably doesn't have nice fuel consumption figures compared to single turbo diesel engines.

[GoLfMan]

Also it probably doesn't have nice fuel consumption figures compared to single turbo diesel engines.

what makes you say that mate??

sounds like a cracker engine :)

[Greg Roles]

Last year there was an article in the VW magazine where they mentioned the twin charge / smaller engine concept was the direction VW was heading. They also mentioned twin turbo was the go on future diesels due to eliminating lag. The only reason I'd expect the GTD to be single turbo is the cost involved in this climate, and the fact common rail allows for a much more drivable car than PD ever could. I expect it could give enough of an upgrave over the MKV GT TDI.

Time will tell, but if the GTD is indeed a twin turbo I'm going to be majorily jealous!

FAR more tunability with common rail than PD, but I'm sticking with old school for the time being, plenty of ceiling left in the PD.

[team_v]

what makes you say that mate??

sounds like a cracker engine :)

Well to me, if it had good fuel consumption figures (major diesel selling point) it would have found it's way into the new Mk6 golf, but it hasn't.

In my experience, most twin turbo cars tend to use more fuel than single turbo cars.

[Transporter]

Well to me, if it had good fuel consumption figures (major diesel selling point) it would have found it's way into the new Mk6 golf, but it hasn't.

In my experience, most twin turbo cars tend to use more fuel than single turbo cars.
It would depend how it is set up (tuned), they could be just as economical as single turbo, less turbo lug. In T5.2 they achieve almost 1L better fuel consumption than 5 cylinder engines and are faster from 0-100km/h. ;)
Can't wait to roadtest it.

[gldgti]

probably got way more to do with the engines state of development than anything to do with its size or fuel consumption. :-) if they can put a 3.2l vr6 in a golf, they'll put a twin turbo diesel in one too, eventually.

[Stoney!]

if setup properly there is no reason why a twin turbo would use more fuel than a single. Turbo lag actually uses quite a bit of fuel than that of driving normally, on boost, hence the black smoke you see out of some diesels on take off.

The second turbo added is normally one of much smaller geometry so it can spool up quicker meaning it covers where the lag normally is off the mark, meaning a larger turbo can be added for more top end performance and a flatter torque curve, such as the larger turbo on the 125kw diesel. I doubt it would use any more fuel than that of the Mk 5 GT TDI.

Packaging wouldn't be a problem, as all it is, is a second tubro added, and the VR6 is half an engine width wider than an inline 4.

I too think it owuld be an absolute cracker, and hope it finds its way into a golf some time soon, maybe even a RTDi. It would be on christmas list, even though my 118tsi arrives in 19 days (and counting)

Stoney!

[Greg Roles]

Screw your twin turbos, look what I read about last night in this months Diesel Power!

Single, sequential turbo forthcoming on a new yankie SUV diesel motor. I'm still trying to work out how it actually works....but I want one!!!!!!!
That's a second oval inlet on the top for the second impeller ( on the back of the first one! ), obviously with different geometry. It has VNT on the exhaust as well.
It has two exhaust inlets as it's off a V8.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/09/singleshaftturbow1280-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/09/singleshaftturboc1280-2.jpg

[gldgti]

crikey cog, can you link us to higher res pics? i wanna zoom. where does the 'backside' impeller feed to? cant make it out.

[Greg Roles]

Believe me dude, I'm as anxious to learn about this as you are. As both impellers exit the same outlet, they both dump into the same scroll. Here's the pics from the mag, photographed as best I can.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/09/DSCF2838-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/09/DSCF2836-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/09/DSCF2837-2.jpg

[Sharkie]

It seems like another typical American piece of overengineering everything.

Like desiging a $1million pen to write in space where a simple lead pencil could have done the same job ...... (just ask the Russkies)

and BTW ... BMWs 2.0 TDI twin turbo makes 150kw/400NM .... soon in a few models in Oz.

[Greg Roles]

Yeah, the forthcoming twin's give me wood, but they don't seem simpler than the SST - single sequential turbo above. Here's BMW...

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/09/2544_4mg-2.jpg

[benough]

At last people are talking twin turbo diesels!

I just popped 9 boners.

Golf TDI-R anyone :biggrin:

[Jarred]

woah. glad I clicked on this thread.

TT style set ups I've heard and known about for a while, but this SST looks like an interesting bit of kit. all the benefits of twin turbo's, but in a single turbo package?

[mollins]

Those turbos are very cool..



It seems like another typical American piece of overengineering everything.

Like desiging a $1million pen to write in space where a simple lead pencil could have done the same job ...... (just ask the Russkies)


graphite dust in zero gravity can get into your eyes and cause conjunctivitis..

just ask the Russkies

[Golf Houso]

Some awesome diesel tech there, even I'm getting excited!

^ got a link?

[VW Convert]

Some awesome diesel tech there, even I'm getting excited!

^ got a link?

Interesting concept, appears that the engine is a new Ford truck engine that has been designed with this turbo as a package.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/ford/0910dp_ford_6_7l_powerstroke_diesel_engine/garrett_turbo.html

Cheers

George

[Greg Roles]

..."The Scorpion features a brand new turbocharger design from Honeywell that we will likely see in many more applications in the coming years. It combines the principle of the sequential turbo approach with the variable vane system. However, instead of two separate turbochargers, two smaller diameter ones are mounted in one housing on a common shaft. The smaller diameter reduces the rotational inertia of the system while still allowing for sufficient flow capacity at higher speeds. It also eliminates the extra plumbing complexity of a dual turbo setup."


..."but unlike a “normal” turbo, Ford’s new Single Sequential Turbocharger (SST) uses twin compressor wheels on the intake side. This innovative system was designed with assistance from Garrett Turbochargers, and the SST effectively does the work of a twin turbo setup, using two nearly identical compressor wheels with individual air channels to force the air into the engine. "

[Sharkie]

Went for a 200km drive in a X5 twin turbo diesel today ..... man does it move .... for a diesel .... :)

but .... its no modded TSI, it still has a bit of lag and is not as responsive as the TSI ..... but I could live with it if I had to .... :cool:

that pic (of the twin) is amazing cog, not sure if its any less complicated than the american :duh: ... its got to be a pain to work on ... both of them that is