View Full Version : Woops!! APR Motorsport busted cheating!
Big Yellow
25-09-2009, 09:30 AM
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/09/21/478457.html
gtimk5
25-09-2009, 09:57 AM
Happens in all forms of motorsport eh??
They wont be the last ones found cheating, very little detail in that article...
jasn78
25-09-2009, 09:57 AM
so what was the infraction?
Peter Jones
25-09-2009, 09:57 AM
The race-winning No. 171 APR/Gunther VW Volkswagen GTI and No. 181 APR/BBS Volkswagen GTI, both from APR Motorsport, were found to be using unauthorized engine modifications, a violation of the general automobile regulations (4-2.2), following their 1-2 finish.
Wonder what the modifications were?
Pete
Peter Jones
25-09-2009, 10:03 AM
That's wierd, I looked up the grand-am rules (http://admin.grand-am.com/assets/2009GenREGs5.pdf) and found that 4-2.2 refers to battery mounting.
4-2.2 Batteries - 12-volt systems only - must be securely mounted, sealed, and insulated.
I must be looking at the wrong thing I think.
Pete
dubbed
25-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Happens in all forms of motorsport eh??
They wont be the last ones found cheating, very little detail in that article...
No surprise you have an APR chip :emo_baghead:
Manaz
25-09-2009, 10:37 AM
No surprise you have an APR chip :emo_baghead:
How is that relevant?
dubbed
25-09-2009, 11:53 AM
How is that relevant?
Er... Really?
DubSteve
25-09-2009, 12:00 PM
That's wierd, I looked up the grand-am rules (http://admin.grand-am.com/assets/2009GenREGs5.pdf) and found that 4-2.2 refers to battery mounting.
I must be looking at the wrong thing I think.
Pete
Must have been running 13v HOLY SHAT batman!
No surprise you have an APR chip :emo_baghead:
And I have GIAC what is your point?
gtimk5
25-09-2009, 12:08 PM
No surprise you have an APR chip :emo_baghead:
And???
You think I am defending??? :brutal:
If you looked at a lot of motorsport classes there is a lot of cheating/bending of the rules that go on and have for years.
APR are not the only ones out there stretching the rules. :confused:
GoLfMan
25-09-2009, 12:08 PM
keep ya head out of APR vs GIAC People.... how freakin hard is it to GTF over it!
dubbed
25-09-2009, 12:16 PM
haha VW owners are the most sensitive I know.
Okay okay leaving this thread...
Water Boy
25-09-2009, 12:45 PM
I think its just a matter of when you will be caught. There are so many little things that may not give a competitve edge but may be seen as cheating.
quozl
25-09-2009, 01:26 PM
There has been cheating in motorsport since the first Chariot wheel hit the floor of the Colosseum, I find it funny that the general public *(not the members here but the great unwashed masses) are so shocked that there is. I can guarantee you that every single motorsport race you have ever watched someone was bending the rules, the old saying in motorsport goes its not cheating unless you get caught.
In saying all this and coming on top of of the Motor Tuner tyre fiasco I think a few fan boys will be getting some mileage out of this. :biggrin::biggrin:
tinto
25-09-2009, 01:33 PM
That's wierd, I looked up the grand-am rules (http://admin.grand-am.com/assets/2009GenREGs5.pdf) and found that 4-2.2 refers to battery mounting.
I must be looking at the wrong thing I think.
Depends how anal the inspectors are I suppose.
I'd suspect the winning cars get a more thorough going over than those in 10th place and up...
Maverick
25-09-2009, 01:51 PM
The race-winning No. 171 APR/Gunther VW Volkswagen GTI and No. 181 APR/BBS Volkswagen GTI, both from APR Motorsport, were found to be using unauthorized engine modifications, a violation of the general automobile regulations (4-2.2), following their 1-2 finish.
The rule states "4-2.2 It is prohibited to add or remove weight or change to a lighter component during the race."
source: http://admin.grand-am.com/assets/KONI09rulesforweb9.pdf
tinto
25-09-2009, 02:16 PM
The rule states "4-2.2 It is prohibited to add or remove weight or change to a lighter component during the race."
source: http://admin.grand-am.com/assets/KONI09rulesforweb9.pdf
Weight saving there would be on par with a king sized bowel movement.
Sounds like a witch hunt to me.
Perhaps they upset Honda.
anthony_VWJET
25-09-2009, 02:37 PM
keep ya head out of APR vs GIAC People.... how freakin hard is it to GTF over it!
Spot on GoLfMan, everyone knows Unitronic is better then the two! :P
:emo_baghead: im out...
Bug_racer
25-09-2009, 02:59 PM
Spot on GoLfMan, everyone knows Unitronic is better then the two! :P
I second that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p2bjlNvvVs
Big Yellow
25-09-2009, 03:02 PM
http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100924
gloat gloat gloat then BAM!! FAIL lol
Peter Jones
25-09-2009, 03:14 PM
The rule states "4-2.2 It is prohibited to add or remove weight or change to a lighter component during the race."
source: http://admin.grand-am.com/assets/KONI09rulesforweb9.pdf
Thanks for the link Mav, I was having trouble finding the exact supp regs for this series, I'm not too familiar with their rules.
Got to wonder exactly what the issue was.
Still doesn't make sense, the article quotes an illegal engine mod. The 4-2.2 you found relates to bodywork and the 4-2.2 I found relates to electrical systems.
I'm sure it'll pop up on line soon.
Pete
Big Yellow
25-09-2009, 04:41 PM
apparantly it was something to do with the intake (according to a member from the states who contacted the winning driver himself). and they've had this "illegal issue" the whole season LOL.
fuzion
25-09-2009, 04:46 PM
maybe it was an italian football player driving?
:eek::eek:
mikinoz
25-09-2009, 05:04 PM
I say park it in the armco next round.
Greg Roles
25-09-2009, 07:51 PM
apparantly it was something to do with the intake (according to a member from the states who contacted the winning driver himself). and they've had this "illegal issue" the whole season LOL.
It was one of these wasn't it?
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/09/echarge1-2.jpg
The_Hawk
25-09-2009, 07:57 PM
would it have been that hard for the guys the writing that article to put in some... well ANY detail?
No457 Snowy
26-09-2009, 09:05 AM
I wouldn't get too excited guys it may not have even been intentional.
Also very unprofessional for a business pushing a competitor product to be relaying this around the net without knowing the full details. :brutal:
I wouldn't get too excited guys it may not have even been intentional.
Also very unprofessional for a business pushing a competitor product to be relaying this around the net without knowing the full details. :brutal:
Thats a bit of a harsh statement. Whilst Big Yellow may be a fan of a competing product. He is hardly an employee/affiliate.
I think the real problem lies with the APR marketing machine continually telling us that their product is the best. As with any person/business that sticks their head out, someones eventually gonna try and cut it off.
As Australians we love a good tall poppy story.
goodfella
26-09-2009, 10:07 AM
Are we discussing the nature of the infraction or the fact that "Regulation Interpretation errors" occur in Motorsports?
With regards to so called cheating, I have heard some interesting anecdotes of certain "creative engineering efforts" on behalf of a certain Nissan Touring Car team from the 90's. Sure they won some great races, but evidence suggests its wasnt exactly to the letter of the law. Dont get me wrong, I love seeing the Aust Supertrolleys get beaten by the GTRs or even Sierras of the day.
Having said that, who actually believes that technology from Motorsports improves road cars... I cant wait to order my Mk 7 GTI with KERS option, Ceramic Brakes and centre lug hubs! Still waiting for the inbuilt jack system on the spec sheet as well.
Still waiting for the inbuilt jack system on the spec sheet as well.
Anything would be better than the widow maker!
No457 Snowy
26-09-2009, 10:17 AM
It may be harsh, but from a business perspective it's true.
Having a company name emblazoned under your posts while finger-pointing at the faults of competitors, is not flattering to the professional profile of that business.
If he's not associated, then it's all good.
gregozedobe
26-09-2009, 11:45 AM
Are we discussing the nature of the infraction or the fact that "Regulation Interpretation errors" occur in Motorsports?
With regards to so called cheating, I have heard some interesting anecdotes of certain "creative engineering efforts" on behalf of a certain Nissan Touring Car team from the 90's. Sure they won some great races, but evidence suggests its wasnt exactly to the letter of the law.
In some (many ?) racing series there seems to be an attitude of "It aint cheating 'til you get caught". As the profile of a series increases, so does the pressure on the team to get results (ie win), so it is no surprise that some teams will resort to "creative interpretation" of the rules and regulations to gain an advantage.
Many series have a cat and mouse game going between the teams and the regulators, where the regulators keep closing off loop holes, but the engineers and mechanics and programmers keep finding new ones.
I like the concept of the "low cost" series that have a claiming rule. If you (illegally) spend more than you are supposed to (and thereby make your car too good), a competitor can simply claim your car and pay the fee (eg $2,500 or whatever the limit is supposed to). It certainly puts the focus back on the driver's skill rather than how deep the team owner's (or sponsor's) pockets are.
Its interesting that there seems to be no information in regards to the details of this issue published anywhere yet. Even the threads on golfmkv and the koni challenge forums seem to have been gagged until an official press release is made in the next day or so..
Soooo much speculation.. it just fuels the rumour fire!
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