7 sp DSG 400Nm?

[cme2c]

Just noticed the European release of the new transporter. Top of the range has a twin turbo 2l common rail diesel. It is claimed to have 132kW /400Nm and run a 7 speed DSG. Hmmmmm.

[gerhard]

Just noticed the European release of the new transporter. Top of the range has a twin turbo 2l common rail diesel. It is claimed to have 132kW /400Nm and run a 7 speed DSG. Hmmmmm.

It will likely be the Audi S-Tronic 7 speeder, published torque up to 550nm.

Not the baby one seen in the cars.

[cme2c]

Thanks, Gerhard. That makes some sense. But using an Audi box in a truck but not a 103TDI or GTI ? I sometimes wonder.

[phaeton]

Cost.......

[cme2c]

Cost.......

Ah yes. I just looked at the Euro prices for the commercials. I suppose its different competing against Vitos than corollas(in Europe)

[Transporter]

It will likely be the Audi S-Tronic 7 speeder, published torque up to 550nm.

Not the baby one seen in the cars.

I think that the Audi S-tronics box is too long to fit transversally. They would have to change engine/box arrangements to fit it.

[gerhard]

I think that the Audi S-tronics box is too long to fit transversally. They would have to change engine/box arrangements to fit it.

I read today something along the lines of "VW has had to beef up their DSG box to suit" http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2009/commercial/volkswagen/transporter/volkswagen-transporter-t5-new-generation-16785

So I looks as though there is plenty of potential in the 7 speeder with dry clutches.

Would that mean the dry 7 speeder will eventually replace the 6 speed oiler across the entire range where the donk is a high torque one?

[cme2c]

I think that the Audi S-tronics box is too long to fit transversally. They would have to change engine/box arrangements to fit it.

They are using it in the S3 http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/09/30/2009-audi-s3-gets-s-tronic-7-speed-twin-clutch/

[Sharkie]

They are using it in the S3 http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/09/30/2009-audi-s3-gets-s-tronic-7-speed-twin-clutch/

Errm, No .... S3 uses a 6speed DSG (S-Tronic) That article is incorrect. (it is also a year old) Have a look at the specs on Audi's websites ....

7Spd DSG (as in Q5) is for a longitidunal engine not for transverse. T5/T6 & Amarok will get the 7Spd.

VAG does not have a 7spd DSG for the transverse engines rated above 250NM. 7Spd DSG for longitidunal engines only rated @ 550NM.

It is a totally different gearbox. It will not fit in a FWD car such as a Golf etc.

[cme2c]

Errm, No .... S3 uses a 6speed DSG (S-Tronic) That article is incorrect. (it is also a year old) Have a look at the specs on Audi's websites ....

7Spd DSG (as in Q5) is for a longitidunal engine not for transverse. T5/T6 & Amarok will get the 7Spd.

VAG does not have a 7spd DSG for the transverse engines rated above 250NM. 7Spd DSG for longitidunal engines only rated @ 550NM.

It is a totally different gearbox. It will not fit in a FWD car such as a Golf etc.

Which brings me back to my original point. What 7 speed DSG is VAG going to use in the transverse engined transporter and could it be grafted to the Golf etc?

[gerhard]

Which brings me back to my original point. What 7 speed DSG is VAG going to use in the transverse engined transporter and could it be grafted to the Golf etc?

Haha, which brings me back to my last post -

"I read today something along the lines of "VW has had to beef up their DSG box to suit" http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...neration-16785

So I looks as though there is plenty of potential in the 7 speeder with dry clutches.

Would that mean the dry 7 speeder will eventually replace the 6 speed oiler across the entire range where the donk is a high torque one?"

[cme2c]

Haha, which brings me back to my last post -

"I read today something along the lines of "VW has had to beef up their DSG box to suit" http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...neration-16785

So I looks as though there is plenty of potential in the 7 speeder with dry clutches.

Would that mean the dry 7 speeder will eventually replace the 6 speed oiler across the entire range where the donk is a high torque one?"

That would be a good thing. OTOH, is the "beefing up" real or have they not changed anything except the spec sheet, crossing out 250Nm maximum and substituting 400? APR seems to have no problem putting 300+ Nm through the 7 speed dry clutch DSG with their 151kW 1.4 twincharger reprogram. This is relevant to me as a 118TSI DSG is off the boat and (slowly) heading in my direction. Also, the reduction in complexity and servicing costs with the dry clutches vs wet would annoy me if I had bought a 103TDI.

[gerhard]

That would be a good thing. OTOH, is the "beefing up" real or have they not changed anything except the spec sheet, crossing out 250Nm maximum and substituting 400? APR seems to have no problem putting 300+ Nm through the 7 speed dry clutch DSG with their 151kW 1.4 twincharger reprogram. This is relevant to me as a 118TSI DSG is off the boat and (slowly) heading in my direction. Also, the reduction in complexity and servicing costs with the dry clutches vs wet would annoy me if I had bought a 103TDI.

You could be right there, VW quotes a spec which in the case of both the 6 and 7 speeders is way below the danger level.

The "beefing up" is probably only to the clutch spring strength, similar to what APMitchell has done on his turbo R32, now feeding 500+hp through the DSG (and way more than the 350nm specc'd limit).

The servicing cost of ~$400 for the 6 speed DSG every 60,000k is not excessive by any auto transmission service standards. But the lesser cost of the 7 speeder is better still.

[logger]

Could it be that the 250Nm "limit" is not to do with stress on the gearbox per se, but instead, its ability to reliably change gears in a smooth and satisfactory fashion? So while it can cope with the extra Nm's without fear of damage, the average user may not be satisfied with the quality and smoothness of all the changes. Planned improvements to the software controlling the DSG may be able to alleviate this. Just a thought, based on limited observations with my tuned car.

[cme2c]

You could be right there, VW quotes a spec which in the case of both the 6 and 7 speeders is way below the danger level.

The "beefing up" is probably only to the clutch spring strength, similar to what APMitchell has done on his turbo R32, now feeding 500+hp through the DSG (and way more than the 350nm specc'd limit).

The servicing cost of ~$400 for the 6 speed DSG every 60,000k is not excessive by any auto transmission service standards. But the lesser cost of the 7 speeder is better still.

Last 2 autos we had(2003 Peugeot and 2007 Honda) both had transmissions that were sealed for "life". Servicing costs zero. Of course, if it broke that would be expensive.

[gerhard]

Last 2 autos we had(2003 Peugeot and 2007 Honda) both had transmissions that were sealed for "life". Servicing costs zero. Of course, if it broke that would be expensive.

Yes, my Jackaroo has a "sealed for life" transmission also.

Believe it at your peril :) I have serviced that "sealed for life" auto every 50,000k with a filter kit and fluid replenishment. The transmission is identical to the earlier Jackaroos, which were not rated as "sealed for life". So how can an identical transmission receive a different engine in front of it and become magic for life? - it can't......and it doesn't.

Those on the Jackaroo forums who have never changed are whinging loudly about the $5000 repair bill due to the fluid being worn out and filthy, causing failure.

[cme2c]

Could it be that the 250Nm "limit" is not to do with stress on the gearbox per se, but instead, its ability to reliably change gears in a smooth and satisfactory fashion? So while it can cope with the extra Nm's without fear of damage, the average user may not be satisfied with the quality and smoothness of all the changes. Planned improvements to the software controlling the DSG may be able to alleviate this. Just a thought, based on limited observations with my tuned car.

That's interesting, logger. So, you've noticed a difference between standard and tuned. Maybe the map for the DSG needs to be altered too (or perhaps it has been) In these days of computer controlled engines, torque limiting on changes doesn't seem that difficult. We have autos that blip the throttle on downchanges, after all.

I've seen clutches explode and I remember when Holden stuck an Opel box behind sixes and IIRC small v8s. Disaster ensued. How does torque damage gearboxes? Is it a limit to the strength of the gear teeth? Stress on bearings? end float from helical gears? not being an engineer, I dunno.

[phaeton]

Just finished reading the full T5 press release from what I read the 7spd DSG unit is brand new developed for the LCV family.

So future Caddy and possibly Amarok models may receive this unit in future no doubt.

[cme2c]

Yes, my Jackaroo has a "sealed for life" transmission also.

Believe it at your peril :) I have serviced that "sealed for life" auto every 50,000k with a filter kit and fluid replenishment. The transmission is identical to the earlier Jackaroos, which were not rated as "sealed for life". So how can an identical transmission receive a different engine in front of it and become magic for life? - it can't......and it doesn't.

Those on the Jackaroo forums who have never changed are whinging loudly about the $5000 repair bill due to the fluid being worn out and filthy, causing failure.

I did put life in quotation marks. I agree that there is no magic:cool: Lubricants have improved but there are still clutches, bands etc. and gears that put shear forces on the fluids. Both of my earlier cars were traded in before 50000. Life as far as most manufacturers is concerned is the end of the warranty.

[cme2c]

Just finished reading the full T5 press release from what I read the 7spd DSG unit is brand new developed for the LCV family.

So future Caddy and possibly Amarok models may receive this unit in future no doubt.

If it fits in a Caddy it will probably fit in a Golf. The Anorak is much bigger of course.