Flywheel and a useless warranty

[teresi]

Hi All,
I posted a while back to see if anyone was having troubles with the Golf Mk6 Diesel manual. The problem seems to be with the flywheel - a horrible shuddering and hammering at around 20000 revs and if it's warm, a burnt rubber smell.

It's been in the workshop this week for three days, and the official 'statement' back from the service centre was that this is being investigated in other Golf's and Passats, but at this stage Volkswagen doesn't consider this 'concern' to be a 'fault'. Rather it's a 'characteristic' of the engine. I wonder how that'd go down if i tried to sell the car???

So, VW's official response is that even tho' this car is about 2 months old with less than 5000 ks on the clock, not being able to get the engine passed 20000 revs in first and second gear is merely a 'characteristic'. Because it's not seen as a fault i can't get it fixed. The service centre wont even investigate to see what's causing it because VW wont back the warranty to do so.

I can't express a) how disappointed i am because in every other way i love this car. and b) how indescribably dumbfounded I am! What's the point of having a warranty if VW gets to decide if it's a fault or not?? You can't just call it something else to worm your way out of fixing a mistake?!

Anyway, is anyone else having as much joy with the Mk 6 and warranty? or am i the lucky lonesome sucker who got both a lemon car and lemon warranty??

cheers.
t.

[Arctra]

I presume this is a typo and you mean 2000rpm? Formula 1 cars a couple of years ago were hitting 19000rpm and I seriously doubt a diesel engine would reach those stella revs :P

Anyway, back to the point, is this a common characteristic of all Mk6 TDI's, or just your one? Coz surely you would have picked this up when you test drove the car if it was common? If it's not common, then that is a very strange response from VW. Surely such shuddering and hammering means the flywheel isn't properly balanced and that's going to destroy your bearings? You may have to destroy your engine before they then fix it under warrenty. Maybe that's a way you would "encourage" them to repair it now rather than when it'll cost them a lot more? Otherwise you may need to investigate whether there is some sort of industry ombudsman you can complain to about it?

Hope you get it sorted out though mate!

[teresi]

cheers - yep it must be 2000 revs (to get deeply technical - the '2' on the taco).

There was no problem with the car when i first got it. It developed after around 3000 kms. And it doesn't do it every time either, but it's getting worse.

I think it's disgraceful to be honest. The mechanic that came for a test drive with me experienced it and agreed that something's wrong, but they can't do anything unless VW 'okays' it. As long as VW doesn't acknowledge there's a 'fault' rather than 'characteristic' they wont do anything about it.

He also told me this is happening with a number of the mk 6s and some of hte passats, so I guess it's a more common 'characteristic'.

Anyway, cheers for the reply. I guess all I can do at the moment is complain to CAV and ACCC and hope enough people also complain and VW has to do something about it. In the meantime, i'll keep putt-putting around at 2000 revs, and hope the engine doesn't blow up at an inconvenient time. So much for the peace of mind in having a new car under warranty!!

[Swallowtail]

I have to say this really made me laugh cos of the 20,000rpm thing. Apologies to the OP, I don't mean to take away from your obvious issue with the car, but it was the best laugh I have had all day. Especially when you said that "not being able to get the engine passed 20000 revs in first and second gear is merely a 'characteristic'." Brilliant. I had a motorbike once that rev'ed to 12,000rpm, and that was amazing enough. And by the way, it's a "tacho" not a "taco" - the latter is something you eat with refried beans and salad.

On your issue - if it's a genuine concern, don't let them put you off - if the mechanic has verified that it does it, put the pressure on the Service Manager to get the VW service rep to come and drive it with you also. Be polite yet persistent.

[ox518]

Is this problem only on TDI model?

[teresi]

Haha. this is why I buy new cars ...so i don't have to have this conversation over whether it's taco or tacho :)

The only thing i really care about is whether or not my brand new car runs or not, and if it doesn't whether or not VW will stand by their warranty.

Re is it only TDIs? no idea sorry. Was just told it's being looked at on passats and golfs. Apparently tho' it's a common golf thang with previous versions so perhaps VW's pretending all's well and they haven't reproduced the problem...again.

Have done a bit of searching on the forums this morning, and it seems VW make a habit of dodging the warranty on flywheel problems even when they happen in brand new cars that are FOTB. Wish I'd know that six months ago when i was choosing!
t.

[gregozedobe]

I agree that this is totally unacceptable. Even to the point of saying that if they won't fix it you want all your money back or a repalcement vehicle. You need to put pressure on both the dealer and VWA (easier said than done), but remember to stay calm and determined.

I'll take a guess that it is a DMF issue. If so, VW (and Skoda too) definitely know about this, and it is a "problem" not a "characteristic".

Tell them you want written advice (signed by at least the dealer principal, if not a senior VWA person) stating that it isn't going to harm your car, as sometimes that places them in such an awkward position that they replace the faulty part rather than commit a lie to writing :(

If it is the DMF and it fails completely it will be quite expensive for VWA to fix, as it often takes out the bell housing and sometimes even the gearbox housing too. I've heard that in the UK they have had so many DMF failures (and the replacements are also failing) that VW have actually given up on DMFs and are replacing them with single mass flywheels (but there are recent reports that the latest sachs DMFs are faring better than the previous DMFs)

Because of the design of DMFs, I prefer to keep my TDI engine revs above 2,000 any time I want the engine to produce serious amounts of power (accelerating, going up steepish hells etc), as there are less engine power surges and vibrations for the DMF (and engine bearings) to absorb if you keep your revs up a bit.

If it does fail, I suggest you insist on an equivalent loan vehicle while yours is being fixed (that means you aren't disadvantaged while they muck about waiting for parts, approvals etc), and it also gives them the incentive to fix your car sooner rather than later.

[Brisben]

Hi All,
I posted a while back to see if anyone was having troubles with the Golf Mk6 Diesel manual. The problem seems to be with the flywheel - a horrible shuddering and hammering at around 20000 revs and if it's warm, a burnt rubber smell.


t.

My sister had the same problem with hers, cannot recall the exact RPM, however warranty wouldn't pay up. The flywheel was warped and needed replacing. The burnt smell is the clutch friction plate I presume.

She had it done independantly. Although if I were you I would persist.

Good luck bro.

[cktsi]

Just ask the salesman who sold the car to you for a test drive in a demo and compare the results.

Yeah, if it becomes an issue the Sale of Goods Act states that goods sold must be of "merchantable quality". Having a burning smell & rough running doesn't seem to meet the legal standard.

[teresi]

Don't mean to sound like I was born yesterday, but I reckon this is scandalous. It looks like in the States, UK and here, VW has gotten away with not replacing these flywheels (cheers gregozedobe for all your info there!) under warranty 'cos they call it a 'clutch' problem - therefore wear and tear. But how can wear and tear be the issue on a car with less than 5000 ks?? I drove my last car for 150000 ks of city and some country driving and never had a clutch issue... or any issue for that matter... wish i'd never sold it now!!

Of course, now I'm worried about safety - if the flywheel/clutch/gearbox catastrophically fails on the freeway or something... I'm 7 months pregnant and bought this car primarily for the 5 star rating.

Anyway, I'll definitely take all of your advice and lodge complaints - cheers for that. Have already written to the dealer, cool and collected like, and will chase up the TPA and sale of goods act angle if i get no joy.
t.

[Swallowtail]

Good move to have written to them.

I had issues with a Mazda 6 last year with a strange intermittent fault. Took me 6 months and it cost Mazda thousands of $ in working on the car and providing me with a loan car whilst they worked on it. At one point they had the car for 6 weeks straight. The important thing that helped me was that I was always pleasant to the dealer Service Manager, we ended up on first name terms, and that I was persistent with both Mazda Australia and the dealer, and that I was always polite (albeit a little frustrated and forceful on a couple of occasions).

I had to demonstrate the issue to the dealer staff on multiple occasions, and also Mazda staff too. In the end the Service Manager was calling me telling me that the mechanics had done this or that at Mazda's direction, and thought they'd fixed it, but that he'd taken it out and was still not happy... so it pays to get the Service Manager on side.

So hang in there and persist!

[Greg Roles]

So greggo why haven't any of the GT TDI's let go given the higher torque load, or the Transporters etc for that matter?

Is it a 103kw thing?

[gregozedobe]

So greggo why haven't any of the GT TDI's let go given the higher torque load, or the Transporters etc for that matter?

Is it a 103kw thing?

Actually it seems to be a lot more prevalent on the 1.9 TDIs (of whatever power output) than the 2.0 and 2.5 TDIs.

It is very common indeed on Skoda Octavias with the 1.9 TDI. I wonder if they are often owners that are looking to drive as frugally as possible, so they work their engines very hard indeed at low revs to minimise fuel consumption - I am often disconcerted when they describe their driving styles and how high a gear they get into at very low road speeds. They may be saving pennies on fuel but it is costing some of them a lot of pounds in repairs to DMFs and turbos.

My theory (with no supporting facts) is that the 1.9 motor is "rougher" (ie has more violent power pulses and vibrations than the 2.0s and 2.5s) and/or VW specify a less robust DMF because it is a cheaper and lower powered engine. It also seems to pull better at lower revs so some drivers tend to work it at lower revs which is the rev range where it puts more strain on the DMF.

The 125Kw 2.0 TDI has a bigger turbo so has less torque and power at low revs, so less strain on the DMF, plus the owners may tend to use slightly more revs (to get the extra torque and power that they paid more money for).

Maybe the 5 cyl engine in Transporters has more even power pulses or a more robust DMF ? Certainly they do seem a lot less prone to DMF problems than Transporters with the 1.9 engine.

[oracle1]

Don't know about other states, or if its the relevant court but in QLD you can pursue a claim for up to $8500 in the small claims tribunal for the princely sum of about 85 dollars. The great thing is if the claim for damages fails you don't have to pay costs.

I had an absolutely rip off plumber drag me through the courts for 12 months after I told him I wasn't going to pay him for a bogus amount over and above a set contract we had. The result, he got an extra hours pay on top about $100 after trying to claim $3000 grand more. The lesson for me, I got stuffed around for 12 months for 100 bucks but saved $3000.

If you reach the end of the line, and give them every opportunity to not to go there first, and your problem IS completely unnacceptable (read scandalous at 5000k), then $85 is small bikkies to at least to take a few almost free pot shots and if they loose they have a big problem. Just make sure that this is the relevant venue. Above all wiser heads are right do not take no for an answer and very politely persist, even though we all know its not right.

[Greg Roles]

I've read that the "earlier" DMF were a Luk brank, and later a Sachs unit was used, which appears more robust. Still odd for such a new car to have problems so soon. Fight for a decent repair Mum!!

[teresi]

Thanks Oracle1 - yep i think our equivalent in Victoria is VCAT - 'tho I think they're damages claims - i.e. where i have to get it fixed myself first? I guess then, there's all the various trades practices and fair trading legislation. But in a perfect world VW would call the well known concern a 'fault' and not make all us poor schlebs have to waste precious time maneuvering them in to a position where they'll admit that some of their cars are shoddy.

Although I don't drive the car in fuel-saving mode (high gears at low revs), it's hardly unusual driving for a car they're selling as a green alternative to hybrids. It's disappointing to hear they'd make a car so damn fragile it busts if someone doesn't flog it.

Anyway, 'nuff said. Cheers for the pep talks, will definitely hold out and try and get it fixed... and in the meantime I'll ride out the deathly silence coming from the dealer and the service department that I wrote to, and avoid driving my brand new car past the point where the engine warms up so it doesn't blow up on me or suffocate me with burnt rubber fumes. grrrrrrr!:mad: