IDI turbo

[oracle1]

I am thinking of buying a MK1 four door diesel which i am going to look at tomorrow. A turbo and IDI are essential as I like my biofuel.General opinion on 1.5 turbo isn't good and I am looking for an IDI engine in that family, 1.6 looks good with a higher pressure mechanical pump to mimic DI systems mentioned elsewhere in the threads. All advice helpful. I like the 1.9 but I don't know how it (DI) will handle thicker fuels.

[gldgti]

hi mate,

turbocharged really isnt necessary for running biofuels, though it helps. i know a few people (including myself) who've run many many tens of thousands of km on n/a IDI diesels.

vw have 1.5,1.6 and 1.9 IDI diesels. 1.9's are rare as hens teeth in australia, and 1.6's too.

it was thought that turboing the 1.5's was a bad idea but it seems time and tuners have proven that theory wrong - the 1.5 is OK to turbo provided you take some precautions (oil cooler, intercooler, good exhaust, limit fuelling) and understand that it cant be pushed to the limits that the turbo engines can.

[hiho]

also, replacing the head bolts with studs that thread deeper into the block is rumoured to alleviate the block cracking tendancy of the 1.5D when turboed

[oracle1]

I am really reluctant to just throw this 1.5 away. Its no pacesetter but its nice to drive, crisp and has a clean exhaust even when pushed. It doesn't burn oil and has an overhauled fuel pump with 800 bucks worth of receipts. However the clutch is tired and the 4 speed revs the engine too hard on the highway.


gldgti I currently run a landcruiser with a 1HZ engine IDI which has an aftermarket turbo. The 1HZ is renowned for failing under turbo. The reason is heat and the way the head absorbs the heat through the swirl chamber. As we know the IDI engine is less thermally efficient as it has a greater surface area in contact with combustion gases causing heat to be wasted through the cooling system. Put a hairdryer pumping in hotter air and bang.Toyota solved these problems by doing what volkswagen did 30 years ago, going to DI, beefing up the little end bearings (1.5 to 1.6 turbo mod), and putting oil spray into the base of the pistons to dissapate heat. The reason my turbo doesn't fail, its easy only 8 psi, intercooled, oil cooler, centrifugal oil filter, oil change at 5000 and most of all you wont catch me on fraser on sunday afternoon digging holes in the sand at 40c with my egt pegging the boards, with no forward motion.

I hear you on the 1.5 and if its exhaust manifold stud pattern is the same as the 1.6 or 1.9 then if it fails and lets face it it eventually will then hey I just bolt on the manifold to the new block and off I go again. If anyone knows those details please let me know. I am in the market for a 5 speed and certain turbos and manifolds if they fit, bigger brakes, new shocks and springs. If anyone can recommend crew in Brisbane for parts I would be most grateful as used to work for repco and I just know the attitude when you ask for european parts. The eyes roll over cause they have to buy it in an work harder instead of pressing the computer out of internal stock.

My wife's car is n/a IDI patrol and it has a marked decrease in fuel economy on bio compared to the turbo, I now have 40k on bio in that vehicle. I know my bio backwards and I am a shameless salesman.

Hiho good tip I will try thanks all again for help

[gldgti]

I am really reluctant to just throw this 1.5 away. Its no pacesetter but its nice to drive, crisp and has a clean exhaust even when pushed. It doesn't burn oil and has an overhauled fuel pump with 800 bucks worth of receipts. However the clutch is tired and the 4 speed revs the engine too hard on the highway.


gldgti I currently run a landcruiser with a 1HZ engine IDI which has an aftermarket turbo. The 1HZ is renowned for failing under turbo. The reason is heat and the way the head absorbs the heat through the swirl chamber. As we know the IDI engine is less thermally efficient as it has a greater surface area in contact with combustion gases causing heat to be wasted through the cooling system. Put a hairdryer pumping in hotter air and bang.Toyota solved these problems by doing what volkswagen did 30 years ago, going to DI, beefing up the little end bearings (1.5 to 1.6 turbo mod), and putting oil spray into the base of the pistons to dissapate heat. The reason my turbo doesn't fail, its easy only 8 psi, intercooled, oil cooler, centrifugal oil filter, oil change at 5000 and most of all you wont catch me on fraser on sunday afternoon digging holes in the sand at 40c with my egt pegging the boards, with no forward motion.

I hear you on the 1.5 and if its exhaust manifold stud pattern is the same as the 1.6 or 1.9 then if it fails and lets face it it eventually will then hey I just bolt on the manifold to the new block and off I go again. If anyone knows those details please let me know. I am in the market for a 5 speed and certain turbos and manifolds if they fit, bigger brakes, new shocks and springs. If anyone can recommend crew in Brisbane for parts I would be most grateful as used to work for repco and I just know the attitude when you ask for european parts. The eyes roll over cause they have to buy it in an work harder instead of pressing the computer out of internal stock.

My wife's car is n/a IDI patrol and it has a marked decrease in fuel economy on bio compared to the turbo, I now have 40k on bio in that vehicle. I know my bio backwards and I am a shameless salesman.

Hiho good tip I will try thanks all again for help

Welcome! glad to have another bio-D proponent on board and a diesel head at that -

all you have said i can't agree more with, and all i can add is to adress your manifold questions - yes, the 8V diesels all share common exhaust port spacing and configuration, all manifolds are interchangeable. inlet manifolds hada revised port shape with the 1.9 heads but the different manifolds will still physically bolt up and work, some port matching is recommended :-)

to help you along the way, i can't refer you to any repository better than www.vwdiesel.net - definately the place to look for vw diesel information. the FAQ section is where you want to drop in first.

[mollins]

I like the 1.9 but I don't know how it (DI) will handle thicker fuels.

i have a mk1 with a 1.9 turbo DI (1Z). I have run it on pure bio since i installed the engine about 3000k's ago. No issues so far, but it's still early days.
The Bosch VE pump seems to cope with anything upto pure vege oil, as long as its warmish.

mike

[oracle1]

Just the man I was hoping to talk to, I bought myself this

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/P1040807-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/P1040809-1.jpg


the 1.5 is really sweet in it and I am reluctant to play with it, however, I have good experience with bio, make it myself and have centrifuges the whole bit, no probs with good quality fresh bio in DI engine, however I make some interesting blends and have heat exchangers in my cruiser so I would prefer IDI, however these things are so damn frugal i don't mind feeding a DI the finest bio I think. Will stick a turbo and intercooler on 1.5 aand baby it until it dies and then fit 1.9, still researching next is turbos. VERY INTERESTED in your fuel pump! Watch the bio in winter however it gels

[oracle1]

the jury is still out on common rail and electronic injectors with bio

[mollins]

mmm.. mexico beige GLD goodness...

that looks great mate.

Feel free to throw some questions my way. I'm getting better consumption than a 1.5 and it goes a heap faster.
I haven't had any issues with gelling this winter, however I live next to the beach, so it never gets below 5 degrees. :)

[oracle1]

yeah the colour is different but i can paint so.... I considered keeping it the same color for about 4 days for originality but I just don't know.... I have a really nice can of a dark green pearl in the shed i am considering. Just curious your engine is it IDI swirl chamber or DI just to confirm. Also wondering if you have gone to a higher pressure DI mode that I have read about, caught a snippet about some sort of cam plate in the pump but was flicking in a hurry and need to absorb more. I need to do some more reading about the pumps before I ask any foolish questions. Wondering how a swirl chamber engine will react if DI pump was used and bumped up the injection pressure.

[Jarred]

have a look through the rat and retro mk 1 picture thread, i'm pretty sure there's a picture of just about every colour mk 1 in there!

[gldgti]

hey mate,

mollins' car uses the 1z TDI engine which is the first generation VW direct injection engine. its uses the same bosche VW rotary pump with all the same interior workings as is present on the IDI engines, but with component differences (cam-plate, plunger diameter, throttle assembly, dynamic advance settings) to bring it up to DI spec. the injection pressure is ofcourse higher than with the IDI pump.

the injector pump on mollins' car is a purpose built pump from www.dieselvw.com to suit the "M-TDI" conversion (mechanically controlled throttle instead of drive by wire, as fitted to the 1st gen TDI's).

this pump is a 1.9 IDI TD pump (as fitted to my mk3 turbo-diesel) with the camplate replaced with a TDI spec camplate.

VW had a far broader technology bridge between IDI and TDI (compared with other manufacturers) - and were selling both kinds of diesel concurrently all over the world for about 6 years (a testimony in itself to the exceptional characteristics of the VW IDI engine). ultimately, VW have gone down the DI path purely for thermodynamic reasons, and nothing else. because of the prechamber in the IDI head, more heat is lost thus reucing efficiency. with DI, ofcourse this is no problem.

it should be noted that differences between the 1st generation TDI's and concurrent IDI's are very few indeed. the 1.9AAZ TD IDI and 1.9 1z TDI share the following engine components

cylinder block
crankshaft
camshaft/valvetrain/valves
all engine ancillaries
turbocharger, manifolds

only the engine management, fuel system, pistons and head casting are different!

[oracle1]

Hi all I want to try the following combo and was hoping for a critique

Im going to bolt this turbo onto the 1.5 whilst i build myself a 1.9 IDI turbo block up from scratch

http://www.dieselvw.com/16TurboConversion.htm

wondering if it will handle the 1.9 later on?

Also I want to run the

http://www.dieselvw.com/RebuiltMTDIPump.htm with this head


http://www.dieselvw.com/AAZCompleteHead.htm and these injectors


http://www.dieselvw.com/16TDMercedesInjector.htm


I would be especially interested in any knowledge of how that injector would behave in an IDI head with 155 bar pressure and also what bar the mtdi pump runs at, is it higher than 155 bar


thanks


george

[gldgti]

i cant tell you the break pressure of the TDI injectors, but 155bar is generally considered a bit on hte high side for VW IDI setups. 135-140bar seems to be about the upper limit for economy and power.

the turbo kit you have linked to is coming to me in the mail as we speak (my dads getting it) and he'll be bolting it on a 1.5. that turbo is a diesel K03 equivalent - the same turbo that came out factory on 1.9TDI's, so its not badly sized for a 1.9 - very "streetable" turbo, but definately not anything that'll get huge screaming horsepower, purely because its such a good restriction and wont flow too much. i'd guess a 100-110hp limit on a diesel.

i should also point out that all the turbo's sold on that website are chinese made by YEQI under licsense. for a chinese company, they appear (through my research) to be quite good. i've only held one of their turbo's in my hand before, and it looked OK. he offers 12months warranty on all the turbo's sold from there so they cant be time-bombs. but, its good to know what your buying :-). like i said, i've got that turbo kit on order, plus a T3 40 trim from there aswell for my 1.9 :-)

[oracle1]

was hoping to use the style of injector for its ability to cope with thicker fuels,


this looks more appropriate

http://www.dieselvw.com/16NAInjector.htm



my five speed, seat cordoba rear brake upgrade and 210 mm clutch/ flywheel and some other toys should be here wed or thurs from camden gti and once that's done I am going to order that turbo kit and get an I/C from fleaybay stay tuned for pics


Its hard to tell with the chinese stuff some of it is quite good


also noted that 1.9 sleeves are available 1.9 is a wet sleeve block ? Was the block ever cast in alloy if it was it would make a wicked A/C engine

ty gldgti

[gldgti]

wow mate, your quick off the mark! well done (you wont know yourself with the brake upgrade stuff :-) )

take a look at the thread in the mk1 section "swallowtail goodness" with the build of mollins' mk1 tdi - i've posted some pics of hte intercooler setup that we installed in his car a few weeks back :-)