Flat battery problem after installing 9000-1 - any suggestions ?

[vincent]

Hi

well all is not rosy...got the AVC 9000-1 installed professionally by FHRX, drove the car 500 kms each way in a weekend (no probs) and then parked it for 7 days - would not start - got VW assist to jump start it - drove 500kms in one trip (food stop etc though) parked it for 5 days and it would not start. Jump started it, drove 500kms home and turning it on each day is fine but leaving it 5 days clearly is not.

Dealer has been looking at it overnight ..rang to say the problem seems to be that the VW multiplexing system (?) is looking for the VW radio, cannot find it and hence the multiplexing system will not turn itself off and it is drawing 0.5 to 0.8 amps.

Has anyone heard of this problem or "explanation" before ? Dealer (Bill Buckle) said they did not know whether they could fix this or not.

cheers Vincent

[clip]

Dealer (Bill Buckle) said they did not know whether they could fix this or not.
Bill Buckle??? Brookvale??? OMG please don't tell me they are still in business.

[vincent]

HI clip - yes they seem to own brookvale now - more brands than you can think of !! cheers

[clip]

HI clip - yes they seem to own brookvale now - more brands than you can think of !! cheers
I think I remember when BB only sold Toyota's - same time I used to go to Brooky oval and watch Manly kick arse (I was very young though!). :)

[Sanman]

Read through this thread :
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74855&highlight=WD6050&page=173
There is a problem, not common, it seems to be that the earlier version of the Canbus controller does not shut down properly and can cause a current drain issue.
The solution is to measure the current draw about 2 hours after shutdown compared with the OEM radio. There is a VW canbus controller update to solve this problem. but it could also be a faulty canbus in the AVC9000.
Sorry the solution is so technical, but I guess that's why you pay big $ for the OEM stereo.
There is a radio fuse under the bonnet you can pull if you know you are going to leave it sit

[clip]

...the VW multiplexing system (?) is looking for the VW radio, cannot find it and hence the multiplexing system will not turn itself off and it is drawing 0.5 to 0.8 amps.
When I had that dreaded chip done (:rolleyes:), and had the car hooked up, the system threw up a fault saying it could not find the VW radio (I had the AVC installed). We disabled it so it would not report the fault. However, I then lost steering controls. So we switched it back on and ignored the fault code. Never had a problem with flat batteries or anything. Just a thought that maybe your dealer is disabling it which is allowing the unit to stay on. Maybe ask them if they are doing this, and if so, get them to re-enable it and allow it to report the "fault". It won't hurt anything other than reporting the error and may just fix your problem with any luck. :)

[ploz58]

was thinking about a 9000-1, have contacted Auspack but they arent responding to phone calls or emails.

Is this a common problem?

thanks for the heads up
kind regards
Phil.

09TDI, mountain grey, panorama roof, comfort kit

[clip]

was thinking about a 9000-1, have contacted Auspack but they arent responding to phone calls or emails.
Is this a common problem?
Try in a week or two.

[ploz58]

thanks
Phil

[vincent]

Rob emailed me today so he is on email - no suggestions from him re the battery. Dealer still has the car. For those of you who have used an AVC 9000-1 or equivalent waywell or even an Alpine - was there anything special you had to do re the canbus - I was pretty sure it was just plug & play ?

thanks

:frown:

[clip]

plug and play all the way for me. Only thing is (as I mentioned before) if you don't tell your dealer about the error code coming up (system can't find radio), then they will disable it so it doesn't keep throwing up the error code. But then you lose steering controls and the unit won't switch off/on when you turn the ignition key on/off. My dealer just did it again :duh: so have to take it back into them :duh::duh:

[ploz58]

hey vincent
other than the flat battery issue are you happy with the AVC?
has it met your expectations

kind regards

Phil

[vincent]

Hi - generally happy - stanav screen directions work fine, bluetooth works fine, changing radio stations on a long drive where the stations change not very intuitive/easy to use whilst driving but that may change - have not yet used audio on the nav or tried the bluetooth steering wheel controls - car has now spent more days at Bill Buckle service than I have driving it though so hard to comment..will let you know what they say tomorrow !

cheers

[vincent]

Clip - Hi - I will pm you - at this stage I would be happy to lose the steering wheels control if your dealer can tell Bill Buckle how to turn off the multiplexer thing which is draining the battery !!

cheers

[vincent]

Clip - Hi - the dealer says the audio unit is shutting down but the canbus multiplexer is not (I don't know if this makes sense)?

Any suggestions on how to to test ?

thanks

[NZTiguan]

Sounds as if you need an installer who knows his business !!

[qsilverza]

Have you spoken to Marty at FHRX ? He quite resourceful you know.

[clip]

I don't have the AVC9000-1, but I'm sure the connection is the same. You would have got an external adapter that plugs into the back of the unit which then plugs into the VW plug.

Now if you're steering buttons are working, then all is good. The dealer hasn't disabled it. Therefore the unit should be turning on and off with the ignition switch etc as well - so not a problem with the car.

As for the can bus multi-plexer thingy, I think what he's saying is that power is still available, as it should be, even when the unit is off. For example, with the unit off, when you engage reverse the unit senses a video feed and switches on and displays the video screen for the rear camera (it then switches off when you take it out of gear). BUT, this should not work unless the ignition is on. Is yours working with the key out of the ignition? If it does, then it means it is still getting power (and hence your flat battery).

But forgetting all that, I reckon that the most likely cause is a bent pin or bad connection at the adapter point. Either that, or the unit itself does have a fault. It's a 10min job to pull it out, so might be worth having a look yourself.

[CatonaPC©]

The problem is nothing to do with the car but the head unit itself hasn't been installed correctly or it's faulty. The VW headunits have constant power to them but enter a sleep mode when directed to by the car.

Mate, this car never ceases to amaze me!

[Fhrx]

Maverick,

You've insinuated numerous times within this thread (five by my reckoning) that the installation itself is the cause of the fault and that the car should be taken back to the place where the aftermarket unit was installed. As stated in the initial post of this thread; we are the people who installed it, the car is presently here and you can rest assured it has been checked and re-checked and there is nothing untoward regarding the install.

On another note; you'll appreciate from the images below that there are only two loom plugs that interface with the car itself - the main loom plug and the aerial plug. Both of these plugs possess specific shapes and lock clamps making installation of them upside down or backwards impossible. In other words; it's going to somewhat difficult for any installer to get this wiring wrong - period. You'll also notice all the pins are straight and are not bent in any way shape or form.

So I'll thank you in advance for not insinuating that our workmanship is the cause of the issues at hand here. To everybody else; we have another deck here now which we are going to try. Either Vincent or I will keep you informed of our findings.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/1-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/2-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/3-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/4-1.jpg

[CatonaPC©]

FHRX,

Maverick has not "insinuated". He has suggested two possible and plausible explanations on why the unit is draining the battery.

I, and others on this forum, would be interested if you succeed in tracking down the problem. We'll be keeping our fingers crossed that the problem IS the headunit.

[NZTiguan]

Presumably, as you pulled the whole thing apart, even "you" weren't sure if you had installed it correctly ? Also you're now replacing the whole unit without (it appears) being aware as yet what the exact fault "is" OR where the fault is to be located ? Frankly, until the issue is resolved I wouldn't be poking any borax at members here for expressing their views.

[Fhrx]

Presumably, as you pulled the whole thing apart, even "you" weren't sure if you had installed it correctly?

We pulled it apart because the manufacturer sent us another unit to try.

Just as aside; those who know about us will tell you we take plenty of high resolution photos of each and every install we undertake. We then present these images the owner on a CD for their own records. From memory in addition to viewing the photos taken we did know it was installed correctly (it's a little hard not install correctly) but we're certainly not above double checking our own work to make doublely sure while we have a chance. :)

[G-rig]

Sounds like a head unit problem to me. These cheap units may be feature packed but still don't work as well as OEM.

[Sanman]

Those who know anything about us know we take plenty of high resolution photos of each and every install we undertake. We then present these images the owner on a CD for their own records. From memory in addition to viewing the photos taken we did know it was installed correctly (it's a little hard not install correctly NZTiguan) but we're not above double checking our own work to make doublely sure.

And seeing as a replacement deck was sent to us to trial we knew it was coming out anyway.

This is a pretty good testimony to FHRX - they're following up the problem rather than running away and telling the owner to contact warranty or giving the Cheap Chinese story. Pity they're in Sydney, otherwise I'd be heading their way

[Fhrx]

I'll say what I want thanks, you can take it however you want and clearly you have taken what I have said as an attack. People can make up their own mind but I won't be wasting my time recommending you again or buying from you if this is the way you carry on.

Surely you're not surprised to read someone defending their own business? I have an obligation to put the record straight just in case someone reads your comments to have a different meaning to the one you claim was intended. You cannot blame me for doing that.

In any case; let us move along. I came onto this forum to help people out with their systems, not get into pointless squabbling. Without trying to sound immodest; we have the better part of one hundred years of experience at our disposal and Volkswagens are one of our most commonly installed cars. I'm more than happy to share our experiences with people (which is why I put up the tutorial thread) but by the same token; if you want me to leave I certainly can.

[Swallowtail]

Guys play nicely or take it elsewhere...:frown:

[vincent]

Guys - Hi

Time to cool the discussion...as the car owner/OP the way I see it is :


I don't know if the car originally had the same problem with the factory fit radio as the car was down at the audio shop within hours of me getting it
the dealer was saying there was still a draw (although heavily reduced) with the factory radio back in
the purpose of this thread was to seek comments from other posters based on their own experiences as this forum is usually very helpful
clearly this car is from the latest batch of Tiguans off the boat so there might be something new there and it is a 125 Tsi - most other 9000-1 units seem to have gone into the 103 diesel which was released months earlier
the camera seems an unlikely culprit as it draws only 6 milliamps when in use.



The dealer was friendly although not that experienced (I found another dealer over the phone who was much more knowledgeable - in contrast VWassist were no use at all.) If the dealer had been able to test putting a VW 510 satnav unit in (as I hoped they would but they have none to try) that would have been more useful as I know from thread responses here and the UK forum that VW has had canbus issues in Golf's when they tried to upgrade VW radios to better VW radios and such a test would then have probably eliminated the car as being the problem which is still possible.

Marty at FHRX has been very helpful and professional. The car is back with him not because I or he doubted the install (as he says those big connector plugs are rather specific ! and many users have done successful self installs) but because he is best placed to do some independent tests, then to install another 9000-1 head unit which Rob from Auspack has sent up and if the worst comes to the worst, forget the 9000-1 altogether if another brand does not cause the same problem. (Rob had asked for info from his manufacturer but a stony silence has ensued from them.)

To date I would say I am just feeling darn unlucky, glad I don't need the car at the moment, but appreciative of the fact that Marty & co at FHRX are providing high quality customer care in trying to narrow down the problem (which may after all end up being either a VW problem or a head unit problem).

Each test / change needs to be monitored overnight for battery draw so it is a slow iterative process - hopefully by the end of the week the murky picture will be clearer ! and I will gratefully let you know the outcome.

cheers Vincent

[CatonaPC©]

. . . .I came onto this forum to help people out with their systems, not get into pointless squabbling.

And this is what has been bothering me a bit.

According to the times stamps, your first post was in this thread. You next 3 were about installing the speakers.

I have to be honest. I got the impression that as the installer named in this thread, you signed up to defend your business. No issue with that and not saying your intentions were otherwise, but it was just an impression I got when I saw your post.

I think we all agree that you can make a valuable contribution to this forum, so, please stick around.

[G-rig]

I have to be honest. I got the impression that as the installer named in this thread, you signed up to defend your business. No issue with that and not saying your intentions were otherwise, but it was just an impression I got when I saw your post.


Nothing wrong with drumming up a little business, better if you're a site sponsor though.

The speaker install DIY is a nice contribution though. I'd make sure it was reversible and you could put the stock speakers back in.

[clip]

... the RNS 510, it's works perfectly
ummm, not from all the threads I've read. They do seem to have their fair share of issues and I would be extra upset about that after having paid over $3000 for one.

[G-rig]

ummm, not from all the threads I've read. They do seem to have their fair share of issues and I would be extra upset about that after having paid over $3000 for one.

You have to admit there is really not many problems at all with the RNS-510, compared to other units (like the W6050, which is up to page 177 of problems on the mkv site).

If you are paying 3k you'd get a 2 year warranty and some vendors have them in stock and will swap it straight over in most cases.

[Sanman]

The AVC and W6050 have so many problems that affect their operation I can't believe that people keep buying them. They're up to the fifth revision now with the W6050 and they keep introducing new issues with each release.

The $3K that I spent on my RNS 510 was easily one of the best purchases ever made, the unit is flawless in operation, sound is good, it integrates into the car and is excellent quality.

Its the 80:20 rule. the Chinese Stereos are 20% the price of the OEM RNS510, and perform 80% as well. People take the compromise.

[G-rig]

Its the 80:20 rule. the Chinese Stereos are 20% the price of the OEM RNS510, and perform 80% as well. People take the compromise.

I don't think those proportions are correct, and what's the point of having something that doesn't work as it should..? The 20% would frustrate the darn diddly heck out of me.

[G-rig]

So that's already 40% of the price of a full OEM Sat Nav unit.

I'd pay the extra for less mucking around and annoyance factors even if it meant waiting longer to get one.

[ploz58]

hey maverick,
Where can you get the genuine unit from for $1900.00, i seen prices in the $3000.
Would be interesed to know ,
kind regards
Phil

[G-rig]

See this (http://vwnavi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6698) thread on vwnavi.com.

Keep in mind you don't get the AUS maps or the support you'd get buying locally, however he's got a good reputation and if the unit was DOA I'm sure it would get replaced.

[vincent]

HI the reading I have done is a factory order-fit 510 is a good experience but if not factory ordered and fitted then it can be a challenge to get a local dealer to procure one, fit it and get it working anywhere near 100% as well as the factory unit even for the $3,500 price.

A lot of us (me included) decided to avoid an extended wait so bought cars "on the boat" and do not have the option of the factory fit.

The Tommy 510 versions are about 950 euros plus shipping & insurance (lets say $2,000) and then buying maps locally presumably another $300. Not necessarily bad but when the Waywell 6050/ AVC 9000-1 is less than half the price and has lots of good feedback from many you can understand why some of us try it.

Some readers would be interested to hear the cost & experience of others who bought a 510 aftermarket for a version which takes camera input and with bluetooth and with aussie maps. Grig can you help here ?

Out of interest some people also advertise the Fujitsu unit - any feedback on those ?

thanks

[Swallowtail]

"Skoda Bluetooth is around $600"

Maverick, this seems to get cheaper every time you talk about it :duh:

It's available from Stu in the UK for $750 to $800, plus fitting.

Oh and by the way, Aussie maps from a VW dealer will set you back over $1000.

So an RNS510 at $1850 plus the bluetooth plus legal maps will cost you about $3600, assuming you fit it for free.

[NZTiguan]

All in all the best deal if you want all the bells and whistles is to get the RNS510 factory fitted as original equipment. It may seem an expensive option but when you see the issues around fitment, cameras, hard drives, park assist display, etc etc it become obvious it's not too bad an option for your dollars. If I'd been able to get a Tig with the RNS510 at the time I purchased mine (I have the RCD510) I would have paid the extra happily, particularly for the integrated rear camera and parking aids. So, imho I'd suggest that if you're ordering a Tig from scratch you should give real consideration to this option.

Cheers

[pezza]

All in all the best deal if you want all the bells and whistles is to get the RNS510 factory fitted as original equipment. It may seem an expensive option but when you see the issues around fitment, cameras, hard drives, park assist display, etc etc it become obvious it's not too bad an option for your dollars. If I'd been able to get a Tig with the RNS510 at the time I purchased mine (I have the RCD510) I would have paid the extra happily, particularly for the integrated rear camera and parking aids. So, imho I'd suggest that if you're ordering a Tig from scratch you should give real consideration to this option.

Cheers

Well said Derek. We ordered the RNS510 in our tiggy and it is fantastic. When I read about the problems here people have had, I'm very glad we got the factory fitted option. The integration with the other parts of the car is fantastic. Worth every dollar in my opinion.

[G-rig]

The Tommy 510 versions are about 950 euros plus shipping & insurance (lets say $2,000) and then buying maps locally presumably another $300. Not necessarily bad but when the Waywell 6050/ AVC 9000-1 is less than half the price and has lots of good feedback from many you can understand why some of us try it.

A lot of poeple are giving the cheap chinese knock-offs a go, which may be ok if you aren't as fussy as me and want everything to work as well as the OEM VW one. The good thing about the RNS-510 is that it adds value to the car, at least half of what you paid IMO, whereas the other units may be throw away money if you can't sell it later.



Some readers would be interested to hear the cost & experience of others who bought a 510 aftermarket for a version which takes camera input and with bluetooth and with aussie maps. Grig can you help here ?

I went for the Skoda kit as it is true OEM and works flawlessly (factory microphone in the factory location). It is harder to wire up than the fiscon but would work out the same or cheaper if you fitted it yourself.

Still sorting out the camera input, as the Kufatec universal camera adapter is fairly buggy in terms of not working everytime the car is put into reverse gear. hopefully they sort it out as the OEM one is probably twice the price but would be better than having something that half works.

In a week or so i hope to demonstrate the faults to the Kufatec rep at Northfield.

[G-rig]

Well said Derek. We ordered the RNS510 in our tiggy and it is fantastic. When I read about the problems here people have had, I'm very glad we got the factory fitted option. The integration with the other parts of the car is fantastic. Worth every dollar in my opinion.

Not everyone can or wants to buy the RNS-510 and other options at the time of purchasing the car, and if you tick every box for options you'll end up paying a fortune and not get much of it back.

I think it's great with VW how you can retrofit such items and like many people have saved a lot getting a new unit direct from Europe. I can live with one small issue knowing i've saved a fistful of cash, and lets face it the dealer/factory-fit bluetooth is far inferior to the Skoda kit which i've retro fit as well.

The MDI wouldn't matter who fits it and works well.

I can still see what you're saying though and would recommend reversing sensors and camera from the factory as the Kufatec camera kit doesn't work properly, and the dealer-fit reverse sensors aren't as good either.

[clip]

Also

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SKODA-COLUMBUS-RNS-510-VW-NAVIGATION-MP3-30GB-HDD-NEU_W0QQitemZ270437270976QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTechni k_Auto_Hi_Fi_Navigation_Einbau_Navigationssysteme? hash=item3ef75145c0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
RNS 510 NEW AUD$1453

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VW-navigation-MFD3-rns-510-rns510-sat-nav-gps-radio-cd_W0QQitemZ220462981330QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Audi oTVElectronics_GPSSystems_GPSSystems?hash=item3354 9e20d2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
RNS 510 AUD$1132 + $99 delivery

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VW-RNS-510-MFD3-navigation-DVD-version-B_W0QQitemZ320409651262QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Audio TVElectronics_GPSSystems_GPSSystems?hash=item4a99e 7483e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
RNS 510 AUD$1052

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VW-MFD3-DVD-SD-SAT-NAV-RNS-510-PASSAT-GOLF-5-JETTA_W0QQitemZ250476535928QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_A udioTVElectronics_GPSSystems_GPSSystems?hash=item3 a5190a078&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
RNS 510 AUD$1088 + $97 delivery

what I can't understand is why all these genuine units are so cheap? A couple of those sites do look decided dodgy, and hate to have to try and get a claim from them. So lets forget these suppliers and stick with the real thing so we can compare apples to apples please.

[CatonaPC©]

I get by with my RCD 300 (MP3 capable), a Melway and a handsfree phone just fine.

[Transporter]

Boys, keep it on topic, please. I don't see how the last few posts help to OP.

[clip]

And the chinese knockoffs perform no-where near as well, for a start the screen can't be viewed in bright light, it has no hard drive, the audio quality is poor, the interface is rubbish, they don't integrate into the car, they don't operate correctly (as can be seen from this example) and you have to constantly mess around with them to keep them running.

Fair enough Transporter, but just to balance the record for others, Maverick's posts do need a response.

I've had my AVC9000 since the car was new and have not had a problem.

and to address some of his concerns:

"the screen can't be viewed in bright light"
- true, it is not great in bright sunlight (bloody awful actually!), but I did go into the dealer to check out the RNS and I wasn't overwhelmed at the difference, although it was much better (but positioning in the Tig is bad for viewing any of them really, would be better if they mounted them lower in the console).

"it has no hard drive"
- true, it does not, but it does have true iPod connection and control, USB connection and SD card access for music, video and photos

"the audio quality is poor"
~ very arguable, the audio quality is as good, and some have reported better than the RNS510. Personally, I run an amp using the line out on the head unit and generally listen to CD's only. The sound quality is outstanding and I'd be surprised if any other head unit would sound significantly better in this situation.

"the interface is rubbish"
~ well, it's not actually, it's just that the stock menus could look better. But everything is there and it works when you touch the screen (of course, they can be customized to your own liking if you have the ability or desire - as I have).

"they don't integrate into the car"
~ not true, the unit does integrate with the car and is supplied with the vw can bus inter-connect, so the car does talk to it and everything works with the exception that it does not link with the MFD, but all other switching etc does work inc. steering wheel button functions.

"they don't operate correctly"
~ mine does, always has.

"you have to constantly mess around with them to keep them running"
~ :confused: - not in my experience.

plus it has:

~ built in blue-tooth that works flawlessly

~ satnav that works flawlessly and fast

And, I did the installation myself, it took about 30 minutes and the unit worked perfectly when I switched it on.

Cost? well, you know the price. The difference I saved, paid for hi quality audio gear inc. 2x amps, sub, and German Maestro splits, and still have money left over.

So you'll never convince me that buying the RNS, and then bluetooth etc. to bring it up to the same "apple" as my cheap Chinese unit is a good choice.

Oh, and as for re-sale as someone suggested, adding an RNS to a Tig because you'll get it back at re-sale is the same as thinking that adding seat covers is going to add to it's resale value.

[Transporter]

To Clip

I like it.

That is a very good summary, I can see that something positive can come from this “battle ground thread”.
Could you do a write up? The Informative post for new buyers, which would help them compare both AVC9000 and RNS510 units, their features and differences including DIY install with pictures, if you wish. Maverick can help since he has a lot of knowledge about both audio units, of course if he would like to.
Once finished we can make it sticky in our section. Remember to be fair and keep in mind that not everyone can afford (or wants) to spend a lot of money on a radio.
Besides it is human nature to always try to save money.

It is the purpose of this forum to help others with information and advice. After all that is what brought everyone of us to VWWatercooled forum.

[clip]

It is the purpose of this forum to help others with information and advice. After all that is what brought everyone of us to VWWatercooled forum.
couldn't agree more with that Transporter :bowdown:

[G-rig]

what I can't understand is why all these genuine units are so cheap? A couple of those sites do look decided dodgy, and hate to have to try and get a claim from them. So lets forget these suppliers and stick with the real thing so we can compare apples to apples please.

I personally wouldn't buy this kind of thing from ebay, but had no worries purchasing from the other overseas vendors (ie Stu and Tommy).



The chinese made units come with pirated operating systems, pirated navigation software and pirated maps so why would you compare this against a unit with "legal" maps. :duh:


I'm pretty sure the chinese models have dodgy software anyway. Do they come with a manual and a CD?



Could you do a write up? The Informative post for new buyers, which would help them compare both AVC9000 and RNS510 units, their features and differences including DIY install with pictures, if you wish.

Maverick has done a nice write up with install pics here on the RNS-510 and OEM Bluetooth for those interested:

RNS-510 and factory bluetooth
(http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51493&highlight=OEM+skoda+bluetooth)

[ploz58]

thanks folks for the "balanced" discussion,
i had just ordered an AVC through rob apparently a new shipment arrives tuesday which has the usb port on the front.
Rob was very honest had mentioned that some people have had trouble but a new head unit had been sent up to help investigate the battery drain.
so no blab blab blab sales talk he appeared to be right behind his product

after reading the current thread and going to all the other sites, i thought id done the wrong thing, but getting a balanced view restored my faith.
Im fully aware of you get what you pay for.

Thanks again, and keep up the good work and i appreciate the experience out there
regards
Phil.

[G-rig]

Back on topic, what was the problem vincent?

[Maverick]

Back on topic, what was the problem vincent?

:???:

From the post I saw on golfmkv he had returned the car to stock and returned the AVC9000. I assume the replacement had the same problem???

[G-rig]

We will never know except that the stock head units don't have a problem :smile:

[Arctra]

:???:

From the post I saw on golfmkv he had returned the car to stock and returned the AVC9000. I assume the replacement had the same problem???

I contacted Vincent on Friday (21 Aug) about it and he's waiting for Rob to send a replacement unit to be installed. FHRX pretty much isolated that it was caused by the headunit, even though it was actually the CANBUS multiplexer that wasn't turning off and was drawing about 0.2A per 12 hours. Once they have the replacement they'll be able to tell if it was just that particular headunit which was the problem, or if it's a fundamental problem with the design of the headunit (therefore all AVC9000-1/WD6050 headunits will cause the same multiplexer problem).

So in summary, it's still a "watch this space" case here...

[ploz58]

ive just purchased one of these units from rob,
but as yet had not had it installed,

Im hoping this is an isolated issue,

Any suggestions on how/where to locate the GPS antenna,

kind regards
Phil.

[Transporter]

Do some search in Golf5 and Audio section there is a lot of info there about the unit and from my reading it is not all the gloom and doom only. Some owners are quite happy with it. :)

[mattyb]

Hi one and all

Ive been following this post and a few other, re the AVC9000-1/WD6050. There are about 188 and counting pages of info on the golf markv forum. My take on the power drain issue is it is a CANBUS issue with certain model VW's.

[Maverick]

Hi one and all

Ive been following this post and a few other, re the AVC9000-1/WD6050. There are about 188 and counting pages of info on the golf markv forum. My take on the power drain issue is it is a CANBUS issue with certain model VW's.

It's actually an issue with the aftermarket headunit not the car.

VW send signals via the CAN bus to switch devices like the headunit on and off, if the receiving device does not power off that is the fault of the headunit or the installation of it.

Poor reverse engineering of the CAN bus signal is the reason for many of these problems. Other problems can come about during installation with poor connections to the CAN bus network. There's information here (http://www.my-gti.com/991/)on repairing the CAN bus network which gives an idea as to how wiring and connections should be made.
http://www.my-gti.com/991/performing-repairs-on-can-bus-wiring

The only problem with factory headunits is where an older model series PQ35/PQ46 (MY08 onwards is fine as are quite a few MY07) has a third generation headunit (RCD 210, RCD 310, RCD 510, RNS 310) installed (excluding the RNS 510) and this requires a CAN bus gateway upgrade which is a $300 project.

Remember that the third generation headunits didn't appear until the MY09/MY10 models so the ability to fit them to a MY06/Previous Series is something you generally wouldn't see from other vehicle manufacturers. But as I said don't confuse this problem with issues with aftermarket headunits.

Info on the problem is in more detail here (http://www.my-gti.com/1101/).
http://www.my-gti.com/1101/upgrading-2nd-generation-radios-rcd-300-rcd-500-to-3rd-generation-rcd-210-rcd-310-rns-310-rcd-510-power-drain-issue

[NZTiguan]

Hi one and all

Ive been following this post and a few other, re the AVC9000-1/WD6050. There are about 188 and counting pages of info on the golf markv forum. My take on the power drain issue is it is a CANBUS issue with certain model VW's.

Is there anything wrong with the vehicle prior to installation of the aftermarket head-unit ?? Answer NO

Therefore there is NOTHING wrong with the CANBUS, there IS something wrong with the aftermarket head-unit in that it's installation does not work correctly with the manufacturer's (in this case VWs) system.

You can't expect the manufacturer of the vehicle to set it up specifically for some aftermarket unit, you CAN expect the aftermarket unit to be engineered to work within the system provided.

[clip]

Simple solution is to buy the AVC9000, not the AVC9000-1. To my knowledge, this problem has not been reported on the 9000 (and mine doesn't have this issue).

[cubes]

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93281

Follow the link above, apparently the AVC9000-1 aka Waywal W6050 has an upgrade which has had certain bugs adressed icluding the power drain issue. The new fascia has a slightly different button arrangment and dosen't try to be an exact replica visualy.

[Maverick]

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93281

Follow the link above, apparently the AVC9000-1 aka Waywal W6050 has an upgrade which has had certain bugs adressed icluding the power drain issue. The new fascia has a slightly different button arrangment and dosen't try to be an exact replica visualy.

I didn't realise the AVC9000-1 was the W6050, the third generation of the W6050 had some CAN bus updates (I think this was when the CAN bus was moved inside the unit?) and that screwed up the shutdown, the unit could either be fixed locally by replacing a component inside the unit or by sending it back to waywell to be repaired.

[vincent]

Guys - Hi

I was perhaps the first Oz Tiguan owner to report the battery drain problem with the 9000-1. (I have a June 30 delivery Tiguan TSI manual).

Rob has just shipped a new unit with an apparently different pcb inside which should work better. The guys at FHRX are testing overnight for battery drain although as a "newer" model it may have an audio antennae quirk yet to be resolved.

As maverick and others have said - had this car been available with the RNS510 it might have been the better way to go - but as it was not I went looking for an aftermarket solution. The Auspack seemed a good choice at the time. As all up cost includes buying maps I am reluctant to go the path of importing an RNS510 from Europe.

The killer is the time lost (1+ hour trip each way) every time I have to take it back to the audio shop - gold stars to FHRX who have been doing the right thing as an audio sepcialist.

I will let you know how it goes later in the week - I am 50:50 on prospects of success.

cheers Vincent

[Arctra]

Hey Vincent.

I'm very keen to hear how this goes! So is this the infamous new "Gold" model that Oskar was peddling on the MkV forums, or is it just an evolution of the Waywell WD6050?

Now that I'm getting used to the quirks of the unit I actually don't think it's too bad. It's certainly not a well polished user experience, but it's good enough. A brighter or transflective screen would be nice on it, and I wish it didn't mute the radio when the reverse camera activates, but otherwise it's fine.

Cheers

[clip]

Arctra, can you customise the screens on your model like you can on the 9000 using the SunEdit software?

[Arctra]

Arctra, can you customise the screens on your model like you can on the 9000 using the SunEdit software?

Haven't tried mate, and to be honest I'm not likely to either. I'm satisfied with the current look and feel. Unless the SunEdit program can change the way the interface behaves?

[clip]

Unless the SunEdit program can change the way the interface behaves? nup, stuck with that sorry.

[Tig2009]

Guys - Hi

I was perhaps the first Oz Tiguan owner to report the battery drain problem with the 9000-1. (I have a June 30 delivery Tiguan TSI manual).

Rob has just shipped a new unit with an apparently different pcb inside which should work better. The guys at FHRX are testing overnight for battery drain although as a "newer" model it may have an audio antennae quirk yet to be resolved.

As maverick and others have said - had this car been available with the RNS510 it might have been the better way to go - but as it was not I went looking for an aftermarket solution. The Auspack seemed a good choice at the time. As all up cost includes buying maps I am reluctant to go the path of importing an RNS510 from Europe.

The killer is the time lost (1+ hour trip each way) every time I have to take it back to the audio shop - gold stars to FHRX who have been doing the right thing as an audio sepcialist.

I will let you know how it goes later in the week - I am 50:50 on prospects of success.

cheers Vincent
Hi Vincent, how is the new avc 9000-1 ?Is this the mk5 version ? I'm keen to hear your thoughts on it as I'm about to buy one from Rob. He tells me the battery drain issue has been sorted.

Thanks

[ploz58]

i have the same problem as vincent, Im hoping rob has it sorted,
happy with the unit but as i leave my car for a few days at a time, ive had to jump start it twice which im not real keen on.

I also have a problem where the GPS loses signal after 30 mins,
Havent worked out whether its the software or the antennae

My tig, 6/09 TDI also had a dual fakra antennae on the back of the stock unit,
i was able to modify the adaptor to come with the unit, to fit, it wont just plug up as it, only involved trimmer the outer of the adaptor, " No volkswagen parts were harmed in the process"

otherwise i found the unit good, the positiion in the dash makes the screen hard to see and people in the back find it really hard to see the screen, particularly if a DVD is playing ( not while driving of course)

the iphone 3gs with blue tooth intergrates well and its so simple just to play the music over bluetooth, and it appears to be in stereo

regards

Phil

[Tig2009]

Hi Phil, do you have the avc 9001 mk5 ? or is it the previous mk4 version ? It still sounds like the CANBUS thing is not sorted yet.

Tig2009

[ploz58]

hi tig,
Well i thought i had the latest unit, its not the one with the "gold body" that appears in other forums.
Im not sure which one vincent has been sent.

looking forward to seeing to see what he has to say

Its not the cars fault, hope we can get it sorted as its not a bad thing.

I dont like jump starting my car, and i do have to leave it for a while, and im not real keen on just pulling out the fuse.

but i do like the unit,
regards

Phil.

[clip]

Its not the cars fault, hope we can get it sorted as its not a bad thing.
sorry to bring up this subject again, but in fairness to everyone, the battery drain problem does actually appear to be the car's problem. Batteries running flat have been reported with the RCD510 and also now with RNS510 units.

[Maverick]

sorry to bring up this subject again, but in fairness to everyone, the battery drain problem does actually appear to be the car's problem. Batteries running flat have been reported with the RCD510 and also now with RNS510 units.

Actually this is not the cars problem. Show me one car that has this problem from the factory.

Is some ways you could blame VW because they have created a range of headunits that fit all their cars both from 6+ years ago and even current models. They have used standard connections, standard antenna connections and have made it easy to swap old headunits into new cars and new headunits into old cars.

But do people thank Volkswagen for this sort of innovate design that also keeps down costs or that allows them to keep developing one family of firmware or that allows new features to be added? No they don't. Instead they complain when they fit a new headunit into an old car and don't follow Volkswagens instructions by upgrading the CAN bus controller.

Because the rest of the car is modular you can also upgrade other parts including introducing new features that were not available for your car simply and easily because of the benefits of CAN bus.

So to make it perfectly clear people flash their headunits with firmware offering new features on a new headunit installed in an old car for which that head unit was never an option for 4 (four) years after that car was made and complain because of a power drain issue brought about by that firmware. Or they fit a headunit from a new model of car and complain about the power drain issue when the replacement of a $200 part resolves the problem.

Perhaps it would be easier to follow the Ford and GMH principles and have a different headunit for every single model of car and make changes to the harness at each mid cycle upgrade so you can't move head units around? Or that didn't use technology like CAN bus and instead have hundreds of wires running around the car and that use relays etc to switch off headunits. Sure you'd lose all the benefits of CAN bus and fuel usage would go up and all the nice little features we get in VW cars we'd lose like automatic lights off, different components talking to one another, lower fuel consumption, being able to alter just about every setting possible and diagnose faults from a handheld device.

Or maybe it would be best if people would accept that they don't know how the car works and that it's not like your run of the mill Ford or GMH before buying cheap headunits that are slapped out for a few dollars from China and seek professional advice when retrofitting headunits like the RNS 510 and RCD 510 into old models.

To sum it up, it's not the cars fault, it's not the headunits fault, it's not Volkswagen's fault but it's the fault of the owner and/or installer for failing to educate themselves and/or taking on a job they clearly are not capable of performing.

[Transporter]

These are very tough words Maveric. I could agree with almost everything what you said and I agree with everything about the aftermarket unit power drain.

These power drains after head unit swapping is discussed quite a lot on net, I saw some people complaining about the power drain issue even with RNS510 units how ever they didn't say if it was in the car that was not tempered with and everything was indicating that they installed the unit after purchase or onto different model.

I'm looking at buying AVC9000 for my T5 and also maybe for the Golf5 we have and I try to follow the discussion about the issue.

So, please everybody do not start to argue about the facts without the hard

evidence. Hard evidence would be someone having a problem with the factory

RNS510 unit that was factory installed at the time when he/she ordered the

car and nobody tempered with the electronics in the car including wiring after

the purchase.

[NZTiguan]

Well said Maverick

[G-rig]

sorry to bring up this subject again, but in fairness to everyone, the battery drain problem does actually appear to be the car's problem. Batteries running flat have been reported with the RCD510 and also now with RNS510 units.

What was the problem and how did you fix it anyway? I doubt it would be the car's problem or the service team would have fixed it? Did you upgrade the can gateway?

[CatonaPC©]

Well said Maverick

I concur, also.

[Maverick]

And to add one last little bit. With the RNS 510 all versions up until firmware revision 1100 worked in all Mark V's with no power drain issues. Firmware release 2660 came out and upgraded the unit to be functionally the same (CAN bus interface wise) as the other third generation head units (RNS 310, RCD 210, RCD 310 and RCD 510) and upgrading this would show a power drain issue with cars with older CAN bus gateways.

But this is not an official Volkswagen release as such and was not performed by the dealers and was not intended for older cars. Any car that had a RNS 510 installed from the factory did not have any problems with this firmware.

Volkswagen are releasing (internally but they will be available on the interweb very soon after) two new firmware revisions in the next week or two.

2700 which is an update to 2660 and hopefully will fix a few bugs like with the location showing up in Germany at startup. It is possible that the location showing up in Germany is because the firmware has been loaded on older hardware that can't support this version fully.

900 which doesn't have voice control but is designed for older headunits A and B revision and doesn't have the power drain issue when fitted in older cars.

I have info here on the problem along with the fix. Volkswagen have a TSB? (I think it's a TSB will have to dig it out) which mirrors what I have listed.

Upgrading 2nd generation radios (RCD 300, RCD 500) to 3rd generation (RCD 210, RCD 310, RNS 310, RCD 510) power drain issue (http://www.my-gti.com/1101/)

[clip]

What was the problem and how did you fix it anyway? I doubt it would be the car's problem or the service team would have fixed it? Did you upgrade the can gateway?
I don't have the problem so never had to fix anything.

[clip]

Thanks for some more clarity around this issue Maverick.

[G-rig]

I don't have the problem so never had to fix anything.

So no battery drain or just on some older cars?

[clip]

So no battery drain or just on some older cars?
It's complicated G rig. As I say, it has not happened to me and I have run an alternative branded NAV unit. But has to others with Tigs and other VW models.

I was merely pointing out that this issue is not confined just to alternative branded NAV units (as many are quick to blame). There is more to it than that, as Maverick indicates.

[ploz58]

a little bit off the subject, but may give some light on this matter of battery drain.

Friends in the USA, purchased for their parents an brand new 5 series BMW,
the car was stock standard but had lots of "nice things".
The parents only had on old chev, and raised all their kids to go to uni and get good jobs etc.


Back to the subject

The car pretty much only got driven to church on sundays, and from new and stock, it was developing a flat battery between drives to church, Multiple visits to BMW to locate the " Fault'. Father wanted his old chev back

The solution for them was to place the car on a trickle charger between Church trips!! This was the solution from BMW and they gave them a trickle charger.

I believe the 5 series uses a Canbus system and BMW have fairly good diagnositc equipment

Just my 2 cents

Forums are a great place to learn stuff

Phil

[G-rig]

That's a good point, if you are only doing very short trips or not using the car much the battery probably isn't getting charged enough, and given other electronics turn on/off fairly regularly then that will drain the battery. Although the battery in most new VW's is pretty good i thought (mine is 640A) and the car should start.

I've got a similar thing with my amps & turn on pop/voltage drop.

[Maverick]

.......
The car pretty much only got driven to church on sundays, and from new and stock, it was developing a flat battery between drives to church, Multiple visits to BMW to locate the " Fault'. Father wanted his old chev back

The solution for them was to place the car on a trickle charger between Church trips!! This was the solution from BMW and they gave them a trickle charger.

I believe the 5 series uses a Canbus system and BMW have fairly good diagnositc equipment..........

But a fault with a BMW has what to do with CAN bus?

That's like saying that one computer on a network is faulty so the whole network is faulty and so are all other networks.

BMW's don't all go flat after a week because of CAN bus, like the VW they can sit for months and still start without a problem. CAN bus is just a way for modules in the car to communicate effectively with a large reduction in the amount of wiring requires which reduces manufacturing costs, improves fuel consumption and reduced number of connections.

And one of the big benefits of CAN bus is power saving where it can shed modules in order to save power. Little things like turning off lights before they drain the battery are all extras and whilst some of the features were around before CAN bus they weren't all integrated and didn't work together.

Problems occur because many don't take take the time to understand what CAN bus is, how it works or the benefits it offers and want to do things the old way which are no longer appropriate or workable. The same people are quick to blame the car and/or CAN bus when in reality the problem is the product and/or the install.

In the past you could be an auto electrician with minimal skills and no computer knowledge, now it requires you to understand a great deal more about the car and no longer can you get by with just a multimeter but specialised tools need to be added to the inventory.


It's complicated G rig. As I say, it has not happened to me and I have run an alternative branded NAV unit. But has to others with Tigs and other VW models.

I was merely pointing out that this issue is not confined just to alternative branded NAV units (as many are quick to blame). There is more to it than that, as Maverick indicates.

Aftermarket head units are where the majority of problems are, it you take a look at the problems the waywell units have had through multiple revisions and there is no pattern as to CAN bus gateway versions nor the version of waywell headunit.

The third generation problem with VW headunits is well documented, consistent and only a recent "issue" which is easily resolved with a gateway change.

Clearly waywell have absolutely no idea what they are doing nor have they taken the time to properly implement their CAN bus interface. I'd put money on them taking another product from any manufacturer (like one of the standalone interfaces for generic headunits) and reverse engineering this and only picking up parts of instructions that work in certain cars and not in others.

You can see this in their development where one issue is fixed and five other problems are introduced. It's very hit and miss and I can see problems occurring when the headunits stop working when VW does an update to the car or changes out a module. The owner will no doubt blame VW. The same will apply when the waywell units are sold, they may have worked in the original car but may not work in the new car.

There are companies that get the CAN bus interfaces to work correctly, the real question is why can't waywell :confused:

[ploz58]

Im getting a little lost,
Is there a good reference that explains exactly what CANBUS does or is ?

kind regards
Phil

[Transporter]

Im getting a little lost,
Is there a good reference that explains exactly what CANBUS does or is ?

kind regards
Phil

Try here (http://www.impartsp.com.au/products/can-bus-controller-area-network-explained.shtml). for more :google: is your friend

[sa-r32]

I just had my first battery drain episode after installing the avc90001 and not driving the car for 3 days.

After reading the thread I'm not certain I saw a fix, is there one ?

Thanks
Paul

[Sanman]

I just had my first battery drain episode after installing the avc90001 and not driving the car for 3 days.

After reading the thread I'm not certain I saw a fix, is there one ?

Thanks
Paul

Contact Rob at auspacks who is an AVC9000-1 reseller
http://members.optusnet.com.au/auspacks/
He has a modified harness for the AVC9000-1 that integrates a relay that disconnects the CANbus when the ignition is off. Solves the battery drain problem

[sa-r32]

Contact Rob at auspacks who is an AVC9000-1 reseller
http://members.optusnet.com.au/auspacks/
He has a modified harness for the AVC9000-1 that integrates a relay that disconnects the CANbus when the ignition is off. Solves the battery drain problem

Thanks for the prompt response, I have already emailed him, hopefully it will be sorted soon.

Paul

[Maverick]

Contact Rob at auspacks who is an AVC9000-1 reseller
http://members.optusnet.com.au/auspacks/
He has a modified harness for the AVC9000-1 that integrates a relay that disconnects the CANbus when the ignition is off. Solves the battery drain problem

But be warned that screwing with the CAN bus can be VERY costly. There was an RNS 510 fried a while back from an installer who hooked part of a bluetooth kit to the CAN bus and it was fine for around 3 months until the head unit ended up shutting off with a loud crack every now and again, Volkswagen refused warranty because of the alterations to the CAN bus network.

Adding in relays to the CAN bus network because a product has a serious design flaw and needs to be disconnected from the CAN bus network to power off is indicative of poor design with no regards to the CAN bus specifications so you have to ask yourself is the product safe to use or could it create thousands of dollars in damage to the car down the track? CAN bus is integral to the operation of the car and obscure faults could be very costly to track down and Volkswagen won't pay if the fault was caused by an external device.

The manufacturers of the CAN bus interfaces commonly used with head units like Alpine, Kenwood and so forth don't have these problems because they developed their CAN bus interfaces correctly and didn't just read some values using a CAN bus sniffer.

If you wanted to keep the head unit and integrate it properly you should use something like these.

Connects 2 Adapters for Golf (http://www.connects2.com/c2search.aspx?catID=24&manID=235&modID=780)

[ctle]

If you wanted to keep the head unit and integrate it properly you should use something like these.

Connects 2 Adapters for Golf (http://www.connects2.com/c2search.aspx?catID=24&manID=235&modID=780)

Hi Maverick,

Thanks for the information.
Do you think using these adapters would fix the battery drain problem?

[Maverick]

Hi Maverick,

Thanks for the information.
Do you think using these adapters would fix the battery drain problem?

I haven't looked into their use for this application too much but if the head unit has standard ACC, Power and so forth leads that are not used (like some of the W6050's derivatives do - waywell recommended to many customers that they don't use the CAN bus but instead used ACC to control power on and off by taking a power feed fed by the ignition) this should work fine. There are many different models from PAC? and Connect so one should do the trick.

And price wise they're pretty reasonable and available on ebay.

The relay disconnect above is IMO the same as unplugging the head unit with the car's battery connected. You can do it and get away with it now and again (VW recommend the battery be disconnected every time you do it) but to disconnect part of the wiring (especially the CAN bus which is a communications network) every time you turn the car off is asking for trouble. I can't imagine that many people would be willing to risk disconnecting and reconnecting their head unit with the battery connected five or more times a day so why risk it with the relay approach.

[clip]

The relay disconnect above is IMO the same as unplugging the head unit with the car's battery connected.
I don't actually think that is correct. I checked that exact scenario with the Aust supplier and was advised that was not the case. I have since disconnected my battery and after reconnecting I had to reset much of the unit systems. This does not happen every time I turn the car on and off.

It fixed my problem and have not had any issues so far.

[Maverick]

I don't actually think that is correct. I checked that exact scenario with the Aust supplier and was advised that was not the case. I have since disconnected my battery and after reconnecting I had to reset much of the unit systems. This does not happen every time I turn the car on and off.

It fixed my problem and have not had any issues so far.

You're misreading what I'm talking about. I realise that the head unit is staying connected to power but I'm not talking about damage to the head unit but damage to the cars system.

When you plug and unplug from the CAN bus network you should disconnect the battery to prevent problems with the CAN bus network (and other parts of the car but the CAN bus network is particularly suspectable to spikes and shorts).

By disconnecting the head unit from the CAN bus network everytime you turn the car off and reconnecting when you turn it back on this is the same as unplugging or plugging in the head unit except you're doing it five or more times every day and you're doing it when the car is starting up which is when everything is being powered up or down and when failures are more likely to occur.

Worse is that the relay will be operating off the accessory power so the relay will operate twice. Once when the switch is turned on and once again after the car is started as the power drops to the accessories when the engine cranks so it will be the equivalent of unplugging and replugging the head unit twice each time you start and stop the car.

The CAN bus network is not designed for the hot removal and addition of device and whilst it will tolerate this I would not be doing this on a long term basis. Volkswagen service instructions are explicit on disconnecting the battery for a reason before doing this type of work.

If it's working for you that's fine but I wouldn't put any faith in the Australian supplier of a cheap head unit that doesn't operate as intended because they have no idea what they're doing telling me that it's ok to put in this dodgy relay fix.

The CAN bus specifications are available online and Volkswagen have in all their service instructions what you are supposed to do so I know who's advice I'd be following.

[sa-r32]

Hi Maverick,

I appreciate the time you have taken to post clear and helpful information in this thread, there are other little glitches with the AVC9000-1 (sometimes takes ages to get satalites, time never seems to be able to be correct for Adelaide, Bluetooth has dropped out a few times) that are starting to make me think I should pull the unit out and put the OEM unit back in.

I suppose you get what you pay for, and if it were just these issues without the power problem I might retain it but I'm becoming more nervous.

Thanks
Paul

[suparockin]

Hi Maverick,

I appreciate the time you have taken to post clear and helpful information in this thread, there are other little glitches with the AVC9000-1 (sometimes takes ages to get satalites, time never seems to be able to be correct for Adelaide, Bluetooth has dropped out a few times) that are starting to make me think I should pull the unit out and put the OEM unit back in.

I suppose you get what you pay for, and if it were just these issues without the power problem I might retain it but I'm becoming more nervous.

Thanks
Paul

A friend of mine binned his AVC9000-1 (well sold it on the net) and got the RNS-510 instead because it continually sucked power even when the Tig was turned off.

[POLARBEAR666]

My 9000 has worked almost perfectly since day 1. My car goes like a week without going flat and I have a tiny 8kg race battery.Reverse camera is great, the SD card holds all my music and the menu's have been redone using sunpower software so they look awesome and even have custom GT golf logo's on them.

If you do the maths there is no way you will add more value to the car by having the factory satnav for $2-3k versus an aftermarket for $<900.When I sell my car I will be advertising MORE features than the factory unit. Mp3, Mp4, Satnav, Reverse Camera, DVD's while moving, Custom screens, USB connection, IPOD connection, Additional Iphone music connection which can be run in tandem, CHASE CAMERA (FTW). This will easily add $1000 to the price of the car to a lay person who does not know its not "factory".

For $1500 I have all that plus a 600W subwoofer setup which is still cheaper than factory unit.

AVC > Factory Sat nav for resale return.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/04/vwmain3-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/04/P4260018-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/04/PianoBlackclose-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/P9210017-1.jpg

[G-rig]

Maybe that one works for you..

In general though i'd want a HU that work as it should and a lot of people obviously having constant problems.

Can you listen to music at the same time you're using the nav or camera, dont think you can with the waywells?

Everyones milage may vary but it's not just $900 vs $1800 (for the RNS510 from europe) considering all the trouble shooting, bugs and time..

Sometime not worth being a tight ar$e and anyone who has done their research will know it's not a genuine unit (can't see the screens properly during the day for a start) and you can also sell the RNS-510 for a lot more if you took it out.