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slpdesign99
22-07-2009, 08:58 AM
Some of you may or may not be aware that the NSW Government has decide to make it illegal to raise of lower your car buy more that 50mm even with an engineering certificate to try and stop this a petition has been started and you can go here to sign.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/94/help-save-the-future-of-modified-cars-in-nsw

If you want to read more about the change visit here

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_50_raising-and-lowering-vehicles_17-july-2009.pdf

my interest is I don’t want these laws to impact Victoria as its already to hard for us enthusiasts to modify cars

static1800
22-07-2009, 09:15 AM
I don't care about raising, but lowering yes.

slpdesign99
22-07-2009, 10:59 AM
This will effect everybody. stand up for car modifiers rights. The problem is that the government wants to tell us what we can and can't do with our cars the modified car industry is huge and this is just another step to stop us basically having fun

so i ugre you all to sign remember any ride hight mods will need an engeenering certificate and over 50mm is illegal under these laws !

brad
22-07-2009, 11:58 AM
That's a really crap petition.

The guy is more concerned about chassis fabrication (minority of population) than the +-50mm component which affects the majority of "modifiers".

slpdesign99
22-07-2009, 12:05 PM
Well its the one getting around all and I mean all the forums.

I read that the petition is covering every aspect of the new law.

Did you read the letter ?

hey ist your call if you dont sign just dont compalin when lowered/modified cars are no longer allowed on Australia roads

brad
22-07-2009, 12:15 PM
Well its the one getting around all and I mean all the forums.

I read that the petition is covering every aspect of the new law.

Did you read the letter ?

hey ist your call if you dont sign just dont compalin when lowered/modified cars are no longer allowed on Australia roads

Yes, I read the letter from start to finish complete with lousy punctuation and poor grammar. It rambles on & doesn't get to the point. The Public Servants will be off to the tearoom for a cuppa & a biscuit before they are through the 2nd paragraph.

The letter is supposed to be the argument or grievance that you are putting forward to the lawmakers, not some rambling diatribe better suited to an internet forum.

Here's a copy for everyone else to read:

With Strict new laws being implemented by the New South Wales Roads and Traffic Authority affecting the raising and lowering of suspension on any light motor vehicle, we the Enthusiasts are majorly affected with seemingly nothing that we can do to stop our passion and livelihood in some cases to be destroyed by misinformed state government figures.

We have a passion, a passion for cars and trucks. The Majority of Vehicle enthusiasts are not young P plater "hoons" as the media portray, but in fact people of all ages and backgrounds who share something in common which is the modification of their most prized possetion, their cars.

These new laws that Mr Michael Daley (NSW roads minister) has introduced, affect all aspects of vehicle modifiers state wide.

No statistics have been shown to the public of raised or lowered motor vehicles being the cause of accidents or even increasing the liklihood of an accident !

These laws have been brought in to which seems to be a scare tactic to the rest of the nation who use their cars and the road just for getting from A to B , the government are trying to make your average joe think that our modified vehicles put his life and his families lives at risk, not to mention the media showing cars doing burnouts and street racing , all of a sudden the nation thinks because our vehicle is modified that we are out street racing and doing illegal activity on our roads. Now the fact is some people choose to engage ina cts of stupidity and that is their choice, but enough is enough because we wish to have a modified vehicle we should not be portrayed under the same stereotype as law breaking citizens.

We need to band together, we need to show the public, the government and any governing body that our vehicles' can be modified and can be safe !
one major spanner in the works is the wording in "VSI 50" found at "http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_50_raising-and-lowering-vehicles_17-july-2009.pdf" "Chassis rails must not be notched or cut to lower a vehicle%u2019s ride height." now it has been a law for a long time for regular cars that are a monocoque body can not be tubbed or notched because it potentially can weaken that car and in an accident it could be for the worse. Now with full chassis vehicles such as minitrucks (utes) and hot rods / customs notches have been allowed if done correctly and certified by an RTA approved automotive mechanical engineer.
Now the RTA are telling us they will be banned across the board which is going to affect many many businesses and individuals alike !

another thing written in "VSI 50" is "Drop axles/spindles must not be used to lower a vehicle%u2019s ride height." Now there isno reason for these to be made illegal they are infact a great way to lower your vehicle, they maintain factory suspension geometry and in most cases lower the vehicle by 2 inches which is now the limit under the new legislation.

obviously the lowering of vehicles is more so affecting us but also rasing too, there are many thousands of 4x4 enthusists in this country. They go off the road they need to raise their suspension , and have larger than factory tyres. These new laws are now going to stop this from being possible if they wish to drive on the road and lets face it if done correctly and in some cases engineered then they are very safe for our roads and it is not likely that all 4 wheel drive owners that modify their off road designed vehicles are going to have another large vehicle that can tow their vehicle to where they wish to go offroad.

now these new laws as a whole have been released on the 17th of july 2009 and have been proposed to take affect on july 31st 2009. that is 2 weeks from release date. Now 2 weeks is not satisfactoy, i myself know of at least 50-100 vehicles being built within workshops and inhome garages, a lot are under instruction of engineers before they are finished and inspected. Now these vehciles apparently unless they are completed , engineered and registered by the 31st of july 2009 will no longer be able to be registered in NSW, this means potentially millions of dollars of motor vehicles that will never see our roads because of laws that are not fair nor needed.

Now the RTA have told me on the phone that they do not know anything more than what they read on VSI 50, so if they dont know , we don't know then who knows ?

there is much more detail this can go in but we will leave it at this at this point.

please sign this petition if you wish to see a review on these new laws that affect a large part of the automotive industry and community.

Blitzen
22-07-2009, 01:39 PM
Like I have said before...Just register your car in another state...Cheaper too...

team_v
22-07-2009, 02:40 PM
I don't see it working.

Petitions themslves are worthless without a proper register of the correct details of people who have signed.

Online petitions are even more worthless as there is no proof that anyone has actually signed up for it.

Best of luck with it though.

Seano
22-07-2009, 03:37 PM
As a professional bureaucrat (not in NSW and not in automotive) I don't think your petition has much of a hope...

For starters....the 'ride height' rules stated in the VIS for lowering are based primarily on ground clearance....not stock ride height.

And they are a) ground clearance in a fully laden vehicle must not be less than 100mm within 1 metre of either axle AND b) must be more than 1/30th of the distance between the front and rear axles. Also - the running clearance (distance from the surface on which an unladen vehicle is standing to the lowest point on the vehicle excluding unsprung mass) must also be more 100mm. And the vehicle must be able to traverse a peak either side of a 1:15 gradient (basically a speed hump).

With respect to lowering......none of these rules seem particularily impractical. Sure there are restrictions in the methodology with respect to chassis mods and drop axles but just how common are these things in the VW community?

The_Hawk
22-07-2009, 04:04 PM
As a professional bureaucrat (not in NSW and not in automotive) I don't think your petition has much of a hope...

For starters....the 'ride height' rules stated in the VIS for lowering are based primarily on ground clearance....not stock ride height.

And they are a) ground clearance in a fully laden vehicle must not be less than 100mm within 1 metre of either axle AND b) must be more than 1/30th of the distance between the front and rear axles. Also - the running clearance (distance from the surface on which an unladen vehicle is standing to the lowest point on the vehicle excluding unsprung mass) must also be more 100mm. And the vehicle must be able to traverse a peak either side of a 1:15 gradient (basically a speed hump).

With respect to lowering......none of these rules seem particularily impractical. Sure there are restrictions in the methodology with respect to chassis mods and drop axles but just how common are these things in the VW community?

Thats how I read it too... can anyone point out what the actual changes are to this part of the standards?

AFAIK it's always been 100mm of clearance, the rest I'm not sure, although it would be interesting to see a proper 1:15 testing rig somewhere to try and drive over. (mind you I would suggest that many (if not most) speed humps are worse that 1:15)

edit: I do note that it says ALL lowered vehicles need to be certified, this may very well be a change. So does this mean if your car is already lowered you now need a certificate to say it's fine??

Mind you with coils there it's not exactly hard to wind it up, get it checked, then wind em back down now is it?

Mrk_Mickey
22-07-2009, 04:16 PM
I installed my suspension myself, so the authorities have no idea when it was put it. I could just say it was installed in 2000 and it's passed rego 9 times since then...haha

ozgti
22-07-2009, 05:32 PM
Thats how I read it too... can anyone point out what the actual changes are to this part of the standards?

AFAIK it's always been 100mm of clearance, the rest I'm not sure, although it would be interesting to see a proper 1:15 testing rig somewhere to try and drive over. (mind you I would suggest that many (if not most) speed humps are worse that 1:15)

edit: I do note that it says ALL lowered vehicles need to be certified, this may very well be a change. So does this mean if your car is already lowered you now need a certificate to say it's fine??

Mind you with coils there it's not exactly hard to wind it up, get it checked, then wind em back down now is it?


All the docs, both the VSI50 and the press release state that you can not change the height of the suspension without going for an engineer's certificate, NOR go more than 15mm in tyre diameter. That means, you put a set of H&R -15mm, you need to get a cert. IF you car has a cert and you get defected for whatever reason, you have to go over the pits and are then subject to the new regs, not the original regs you were engineered at.

basically, if you change the height of the centre of wheel to bottom of wheel opening dimensions, then you can be defected and in essence are driving an illegal and dangerous car!

In all honesty, PIGS ARSE!!! but it's the govt throwing their weight around... well Mr Daley actually

Maverick
22-07-2009, 07:20 PM
Like I have said before...Just register your car in another state...Cheaper too...

And not legal either, you may as well not bother registering or paying CTP because you won't be covered by the CTP and your car will be deemed to be not registered after a period of time.

The NT for example deems your car to be unregistered if you are a resident in the NT and have not transfered the registration withing 28 days. Even for visitors you only have 3 months. Most of the other states have similar laws.
http://www.nt.gov.au/transport/mvr/general/infobulletins/ibg07.pdf

CTP won't cover you either as they consider it to be fraud and refer it to the police. TAC state it clearly on their website and other states all have similar conditions.

http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/jsp/content/NavigationController.do?areaID=25&tierID=1&navID=EFDFDAC17F0000010110F06769A6061E&navLink=null&pageID=1088


The TAC Charge for a motor vehicle varies according to the type/use of the vehicle (class) and the postcode where it is usually kept (risk zone) and whether it is owned by an eligible pensioner.

http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/jsp/content/NavigationController.do?areaID=25&tierID=1&navID=165D7EB07F00000100FE73810015C08D&navLink=null&pageID=1742


OFFENCES AND PROCEEDINGS UNDER THE TRANSPORT ACCIDENT ACT 1986
Part 8 of the TA Act 1986 outlines the provisions of the Act in respect of offences committed by a person which involves:

fraudulently obtaining or attempting to obtain, any benefits
providing false or misleading information
obtaining benefits that are not payable
failing to pay the full amount of the transport accident charge
obstructing or hindering the administration of the TA Act.

And there's insurance hassles if you insure in another state as this falls under you not disclosing relevant information and they can refuse to pay out any claims and cancel your insurance (leaving you with a black mark against you for a long time that will cost a lot in extra premiums).

It's false economy to fraudulently register a car in another state because when you claim there is a high risk that you'll be caught out.

Preen59
22-07-2009, 08:04 PM
I installed my suspension myself, so the authorities have no idea when it was put it. I could just say it was installed in 2000 and it's passed rego 9 times since then...haha

Considering you were barely out of preschool in 2000 i doubt that will cut it dude. :nana:

Preen59
22-07-2009, 08:19 PM
People really have brought this on themselves.

I'm not saying it was anyone here, but you only have to look at some of the crap driving up the street in the opposite direction to you to see why these laws are being introduced.

Look at all the crap that is way too low with cut springs (some even re-set with an oxy and a bucket of water!) etc. These cars are driving around the streets and the idiots behind the wheel are crashing them. And sometimes this is attributed to the dumb **** Ryobi springs they've got in them.

I'm completely against it, but once again, the ****head minority ruins it for the responsible majority. :duh:

The_Hawk
22-07-2009, 08:37 PM
It's an interesting one, the last line says "This VSI applies to vehicles modified or presented to an AUVIS after 31 July 2009."

So unless you need a blue slip or make a modification AFTER that date, you technically don't need a certificate.

Of course that doesn't mean you can't be issues with a defect notice and be forced to get the car checked and prove compliance, but then there is nothing new in that, you could get a defect notice today from a cop who thinks your car car is too low, or loud, or anything else outside the ADR's.

Assuming your not stupidly low and assuming you don't drive like a tool, chances are you won't get picked up.

slpdesign99
22-07-2009, 08:38 PM
People really have brought this on themselves.

I'm not saying it was anyone here, but you only have to look at some of the crap driving up the street in the opposite direction to you to see why these laws are being introduced.

Look at all the crap that is way too low with cut springs (some even re-set with an oxy and a bucket of water!) etc. These cars are driving around the streets and the idiots behind the wheel are crashing them. And sometimes this is attributed to the dumb **** Ryobi springs they've got in them.

I'm completely against it, but once again, the ****head minority ruins it for the responsible majority. :duh:

So why not try and do something about it . at least I am trying something .or a we all that lazy and prepared to sit on our hands while the gov shafts us well done guys good forum !

if you dont want to sign then a least email the member the proposed these ill written changes why should the minority stiff it for all.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/members.nsf/d890a06557517cedca256e700008765e/f81ed499e90a76a7ca25705700192d10!OpenDocument

five2
22-07-2009, 08:42 PM
Sign a petition, write a letter or email to Mr. Daley... do something guys. In my opinion you are not a motoring enthusiast if you are going to sit back and say nothing.

This is a big deal whether you live in Vic,NSW,W.A... etc.

According to the new regulations if you have aftermarket suspension with the means of raising or lowering a vehicles ride height (eg. coilover suspension) you will require an engineers certificate for your vehicle to be roadworthy.

This isn't some bull**** law that may or may not come in to play, it's in for real on August 1st.

Do your bit for motoring enthusiasts across Australia.

five2
22-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Assuming your not stupidly low and assuming you don't drive like a tool, chances are you won't get picked up.

Is that a chance you're willing to take? Police love a bit of revenue raising.

Get busted, pay the fine, pay for an engineers certificate to certify your king springs/coilovers etc.

Sounds like you enjoy gambling

I hope you don't own a 4wd either that may have had some mud tyres put on it or a slight suspension raise... you'll get busted for that too

Preen59
22-07-2009, 08:52 PM
So why not try and do something about it . at least I am trying something .or a we all that lazy and prepared to sit on our hands while the gov shafts us well done guys good forum !

if you dont want to sign then a least email the member the proposed these ill written changes why should the minority stiff it for all.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/members.nsf/d890a06557517cedca256e700008765e/f81ed499e90a76a7ca25705700192d10!OpenDocument


Settle down dude I've signed the petition. :) I just don't think there is anything that will stop them because no large motoring body in Australia is going to question them. :frown:

five2
22-07-2009, 08:53 PM
"taken from 4wdaction.com.au"


This is a letter pen'd up by King Nothing over at outters for people to use edit paste copy whatever...... it is great penmanship and if you are not up to writing your own , may I sugest you us and mod this one......

Again Nice writting King Nothing

Mr Michael Daley,
Governor Macquarie Tower,
1 Farrer Place,
SYDNEY 2000

Dear Mr Daley

Vehicle Standards Information 50, Raising and Lowering Vehicles

I am writing to you regarding your press release on the 16th of July and
the release of VSI 50 on the RTA website on the 17th of July.

Apparently, according to your press release and this new standard, I am a
hoon. However I have never received a speeding fine, never been pulled over
for anything other than a random breath test, let alone even attempted a
burnout. Yet now, since I own a car with modified suspension, I am now a
“hoon”. My car was modified legally two years ago, and met all required
laws for registration and insurance. Yet now, with only two weeks warning,
my car may or may not be legal.

I take great offence at being labelled a hoon. I do not have a criminal
record, I pay my taxes and follow the road rules. I work as a professional
engineer and come from a family that traditionally votes Labor. However,
this new standard, and the direct and poorly managed impact it has had on
me, has caused me to re-think my voting decision come the next state
election.

I have a number of questions regarding this new standard, and how it
affects me. I have tried calling the RTA, they could not answer my
questions and have a number of questions themselves that need answering. I
tried calling my insurer, the NRMA, to see how my policy will be affected
after the 31st of July, and they could not give me a definite answer
either.

1. What statistics do you have that proves lowered or raised vehicles are
over-represented in vehicle accidents in NSW?

2. Have you consulted with insurance companies to determine the impact on
policy holders? My insurer cannot tell me if my car will be insured after
the 31st without an engineer’s certificate. This is completely
unacceptable.

3. I have been told by people that your staff are now hanging up on people
when they call your office to enquire about VSI 50. Why? The RTA cannot
answer our questions, so hopefully your office can.

4. Have you consulted properly with the industry groups that will be
affected by this? From my reading the Australian Automotive Aftermarket
Association has not been informed of these changes. They employ real people
in real jobs, Mr Daley. In this economic climate the government should be
doing everything in its power to protect jobs, not endanger them with
rushed policy. These companies invest thousands of dollars to ensure that
their products are engineered and constructed according to all relevant
standards. Yet you somehow feel that your judgement of 50mm is correct,
based on no evidence?

5. If this standard is implemented, who is required to prove if a vehicle
has been modified before the 31st of July 2009? Is it up to me to find a
receipt for work done 2 years ago, or is it up to the RTA or the police to
prove it was done after the 1st August? The best the RTA could tell me was
“if it looks older than two years old due to wear and tear”. They also
could not tell me who is responsible for providing proof. This is not
acceptable.

6. Have you consulted with any stakeholders whatsoever prior to this
announcement? To me it is clear that insurance companies, component
manufacturers, four wheel drive groups, car clubs, even the RTA itself have
not been consulted at all.

7. Do you feel it is even possible to have every car with modified
suspension in the state either engineered or returned to standard within
the next 10 days? Especially considering the complete lack of communication
to the public.

8. Is the NSW government going to offer a buyback scheme for those who have
already invested thousands of dollars ensuring that their suspension is
roadworthy and engineered in the 50-150mm bracket? These people, who have
followed the law to the letter and spend thousands doing so, are they to be
left in the cold due to these changes?

9. Is the NSW government going to offer subsidised engineering to those
whose suspension falls within the 0-50mm bracket?

10. Have you investigated the effect that this law will have on remote
communities which require tourism from the 4WD community to survive?

11. Why have RTA approved engineering signatories been told by the RTA that
all work after the 17th of July is invalid? Is this to prevent those who
have already spent thousands from registering their vehicles under the old
law?

12. How will police enforce these rules? Will every officer be issued with
a tape measure and a book stating the height of vehicles as specified by
the manufacturer?

13. What about so-called “dealer specials”, cars that have been
modified by car dealers to sell them? They are not how the manufacturer
supplied them, yet there are many on the roads and for sale in caryards
today. Not to mention ex-highway patrol cars bought at auction from the NSW
government with lowered suspension. Will these cars also be illegal after
July 31st?

The modified car and four wheel drive community is not a group of 17 year
old P-Platers driving around in 15 year old commodores with cut springs, Mr
Daley. Yet somehow you have swept everyone into the same group. Our
community is diverse. From those with properly lowered cars to improve
handling and braking, to people with raised four wheel drives to explore
our country and sustain local tourism. The so-called “Grey Nomads”,
retirees who have raised suspension to safely tow caravans across the
country and enjoy their twilight years. From young men and women in the
city, to farmers in the country. All of these people will be affected.

These groups create and support charity events and community. The Annual
NSW Variety Bash, the children’s charity. Volunteer 4WD enthusiasts who
maintain fire trails and clean up rubbish in our bushland. Countless
classic and modern car clubs across the state who raise money for charity
and support local communities by setting up car shows to increase tourism.
All of these will be affected by your poorly conceived, unrealistic laws.

Mr Daley, please withdraw your statement labelling all those with modified
suspension as hoons, it is offensive and borderline discriminatory. Please
remove the changes outlined in VSI 50, it is unrealistic, unfair, unplanned
and uncontrollable. It clearly has not been thought out properly, it is
simply an act to appear like this government is actually doing something.

How about the NSW government focuses on real problems, such as the
recession, the criminal way in which swine flu is being handled in our
hospitals (I know first hand!), public transport, housing affordability,
homelessness, traffic congestion, and crime, just to name a few. Not
putting on useless band-aid solutions on problems that don't exist, and can
cost people their jobs, in a recession, just so that the cardigan brigade
thinks the government is actually doing something.

I look forward to a personal response from you, Mr Daley. Not an automated
reply from your office staff.

Regards,

Mrk_Mickey
22-07-2009, 08:59 PM
slpdesign99, You're a bit out of line coming to us out of the blue and asking for us to sign a petition, then when we say it's not that great and it seems pointless, proceeding to rhetorically question us and downplay our opinions.

The petition link is there, and people can read the thread and sign if they want. Thanks for the offer, here's hoping it works. I'm closing this thread because it's just another one of ''those threads'' that is eventually going to get out of hand.

static1800
22-07-2009, 09:35 PM
For anyone wanting to email, phone or write Mr Daley see below link.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/Parlment/Members.nsf/c1f0a145443eba46ca256ce000181fd1/f81ed499e90a76a7ca25705700192d10!OpenDocument

I am going to open this thread back up, but it will be under very strict supervision, lets not turn this into a shouting match but use it for proper discussion about this proposed law and ways we as a group can try and squash it.

slpdesign99
30-07-2009, 01:12 PM
VSI50 has been put on hold due to the huge reaction from the both the automotive industry and automotive enthusiasts. Apparently it is being revised with more input from across the industry and RTA, they have said delayed by 12 months.

press release here

http://163.189.7.150/newsevents/dow...cation_laws.pdf

Spyda
30-07-2009, 01:50 PM
So whats the difference between the new law and the one we have now? I mean what do we have to do differently?

Drive it low, get done, go home fix it, drive over to your mechanic, drive to vic roads (or RTA), go home and lower it again....rinse and repeat.

Thinking about all the deadly accidents that have happend in lowered cars I dont realy think having the car at a normal hight would have helped to much. 180kmh is still 180kmh and im no expert but i dont think that stock suspention is going to help that VN SS stop or avoid a serious accident.

Dub_Star_V6
01-08-2009, 09:48 AM
50mm up or down is reasonable in my opinion but if you think you actually NEED any more than that you've probably started with the wrong vehicle.

Any change to a vehicle's suspension should be signed off by someone in the know anyway, as lowering (or raising) a car changes far more characteristics than most people give credit for. Has anyone who has lowered their car 50mm or more ever actually calculated their roll centre? Didn't think so.

How many coilovers have nothing more than a cable tie securing the brake hose to the strut body? Many lowered cars have coils that fall out when you jack them up, 4x4's that have brake hoses that go tight on full droop, body lifted cars that have 2mm of spline left in the steering coupling etc.

Here's a link to an interesting blog (http://you-have-to-be-kidding.blogspot.com/2009/07/car-hoons-news-release.html) written by a Newcastle-based RTA approved engineering signatory, and the Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association's response (http://www.aaaa.com.au/news.asp?id=66) to the new regulations.

I think the point of this legislation was to stamp out morons installing dangerous mods, which I'm pretty sure everyone will agree is a good thing. Because regardless of who is doing the work, they need to be responsible for what they are doing. Although an arbitrary 50mm limit on raising or lowering cars achieves nothing as even an incorrectly fitted 50mm lift / lowering can be dangerous. That's what they're trying to stamp out with this legislation.

The government has vested interests and, in my opinion, did this as a knee-jerk reaction to appease the anti-hoon lobby. I think parts of it have merit (for the reasons outlined above) but it was rushed and ill-conceived, which is why, as slpdesign99 advises, it's now on hold (http://163.189.7.150/newsevents/downloads/minister_releases/29072009_car_modification_laws.pdf).

No457 Snowy
01-08-2009, 10:37 AM
How many coilovers have nothing more than a cable tie securing the brake hose to the strut body? Many lowered cars have coils that fall out when you jack them up, 4x4's that have brake hoses that go tight on full droop, body lifted cars that have 2mm of spline left in the steering coupling etc.

These are all very good points and very relevant to safety. One simple step forward to prevent a lot of that stuff from happening, I think, would be to make it law that any suspension install/modification must be done by a licensed/registered mechanic using suspension that has an accepted approval, either ADR or such as the German TUV approvals of KW and Bilstein or Koni. (which I believe are probably better standards than anything the ADR/RTA has). As opposed to now where people are buying dodgey springs or even cutting springs and doing backyard installs without training or knowing the ramifications of what they are doing. (such as stretching/snapping an unsecured brake line for instance, or ending up with unmatched springs/shocks).

The date of installation/modification could then be recorded as well as the height, min 100mm ground clearance, etc, of the vehicle when the work was completed and it left the workshop. Of course this would need to include a reasonable settling allowance, much like speedo error includes a +/- percentage.

This would address all of the issues quoted above without the Draconian steps being proposed by the Government and involving Engineers etc. I can't imagine any self respecting, qualified mechanic signing off on any of their own work which showed any of the above defective signs. This would at least address "dodgey" mods and installs "at the source" and time of install by a professional mechanic, without relying on Engineer's Certs and affecting aftermarket companies etc.

I would be happy with that move but others may see it as still too restrictive, what are people's thoughts?

Snowy. :)

Preen59
01-08-2009, 09:54 PM
These are all very good points and very relevant to safety. One simple step forward to prevent a lot of that stuff from happening, I think, would be to make it law that any suspension install/modification must be done by a licensed/registered mechanic using suspension that has an accepted approval, either ADR or such as the German TUV approvals of KW and Bilstein or Koni. (which I believe are probably better standards than anything the ADR/RTA has). As opposed to now where people are buying dodgey springs or even cutting springs and doing backyard installs without training or knowing the ramifications of what they are doing. (such as stretching/snapping an unsecured brake line for instance, or ending up with unmatched springs/shocks).

The date of installation/modification could then be recorded as well as the height, min 100mm ground clearance, etc, of the vehicle when the work was completed and it left the workshop. Of course this would need to include a reasonable settling allowance, much like speedo error includes a +/- percentage.

This would address all of the issues quoted above without the Draconian steps being proposed by the Government and involving Engineers etc. I can't imagine any self respecting, qualified mechanic signing off on any of their own work which showed any of the above defective signs. This would at least address "dodgey" mods and installs "at the source" and time of install by a professional mechanic, without relying on Engineer's Certs and affecting aftermarket companies etc.

I would be happy with that move but others may see it as still too restrictive, what are people's thoughts?

Snowy. :)

I do have to agree with that. :)



TOf course this would need to include a reasonable settling allowance, much like speedo error includes a +/- percentage.


Oh, and the word you are looking for is "Tolerance". :drinkbeer: