Digital radio

[tiguan_hunting]

Hi all,

I was shopping around for a new car audio for my other car and was told by the salesguy that we will be getting digital radio signals in about 2 years time. The run-out audio model that I was keen on will not receive a digital signal. However this will not be a problem as I will still be able to listen to the radio even if the unit cannot receive a digital signal. Has anyone heard annything about this? Can the Tig with the RCD310 receive digital signals?
And it's also got me thinking about the TP function on the RCD310. With certain radio stations in Melbourne I get the title of the song when I press the TP function. Does this have anything to do with a digital signal?

Thanks

[Arctra]

My understanding is that digital radio will require a specific digital receiver, much like digital TV needs a decoder.

What you are experiencing with getting song titles on some stations is called RDS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System). As far as I know, we don't have TP (Traffic Programme bulletins) in Aus.

I wouldn't mind knowing whether the RCD310 supports an external digital radio receiver though. I suspect it won't though.

[clip]

...was told by the salesguy that we will be getting digital radio signals in about 2 years time.
that must have been 2 years ago when you were talking to him, or he's 2 years behind the times.

On 1 July 2009 all ABC Radio services started broadcasting on digital radio along with three new music stations — ABC Dig Music, ABC Country and ABC Jazz.
Digital Radio is an established broadcast platform in the UK, Europe and parts of Asia and now it's Australia's turn to switch on to digital radio, the next generation of radio broadcasting.

Initially, Digital Radio will be available in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth with plans underway for the future extension of services to other capital cities and regional areas.
Digital Radio is not replacing current services; it simply provides another choice.

ON-AIR. ONLINE. ON DIGITAL RADIO.
To listen to digital radio you will need to purchase a digital radio receiver. These are also known as DAB+ receivers. DAB stands for Digital Audio Broadcasting and DAB+ is the digital radio technology standard for Australia. Digital radios are being stocked by leading electronics retailers.
It's not just the ABC that will be available on digital radio. SBS, commercial and community broadcasters will also be part of this digital evolution.

WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF DIGITAL RADIO?
GREAT SOUND
Digital radio delivers better sound quality than traditional AM and FM radio.

BETTER RECEPTION
Digital radio offers interference-free, digital-quality sound. The digital radio receiver locks onto the strongest signal in your area to provide crystal clear reception.

MORE CHOICE
As well as its existing stations, the ABC will be offering three new music stations—ABC Dig Music, ABC Country and ABC Jazz—from 1 July. More stations will be on air on digital radio over time.

EASY TUNING
No need to remember your favourite station's frequency. You can tune by station name. Simply scroll through the list of stations and with one touch, you're tuned and listening to your ABC.

PAUSE AND REWIND
Some digital radio receivers are able to store the program you're listening to and let you pause and rewind the program for a few minutes. It is also possible to store it for later listening via a memory card. No need to miss the news, sports results or weather. Just pause and rewind.

ON SCREEN INFORMATION
Digital radios have small screens which can display program-related information, such as 'now playing' details, in text and—on some receivers—graphics. News headlines, weather details, traffic updates and so on can also be provided on-screen. Some receivers are also able to display and electronic program guide, allowing you to search for programs.

:)

[Pullstarter]

Clip is 100%, these digital stations have been available on set top and foxtel boxes for ages (maybe 2 years+?). Maybe the dude was talking about the commercial stations going digital?

[tiguan_hunting]

Clip is 100%, these digital stations have been available on set top and foxtel boxes for ages (maybe 2 years+?). Maybe the dude was talking about the commercial stations going digital?

Thanks for the info guys. Yes most probably he was talking about commercial radio.

The question then is ... is RDC310, RDC510 or RNS510 have a digital receiver?

[Arctra]

Thanks for the info guys. Yes most probably he was talking about commercial radio.

The question then is ... is RDC310, RDC510 or RNS510 have a digital receiver?

Because I'm an increadibly sad individual that finds reading VW manuals and booklets more interesting than Harry Potter books, I can tell you that if you look in "Booklet 3.4 - RCD 310" on page 18 you'll find the RCD310 is cabaple of DAB... IF you have an integrated DAB radio receiver. I'd be willing to bet the Aus systems don't have the integrated DAB though, as it appears my system doesn't have it. :frown:

According to these guys (http://www.my-gti.com/719/differences-between-the-volkswagen-rcd-210-rcd-310-rns-310-rcd-510-and-the-rns-510) "DAB Radio is a £150 option in the UK. Exact details of what is included or retrofitting are not available."

The guys at VW Audi Forum (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=73488&page=2) say that with the RCD310 if you get the DAB you can't have an iPod adapter. So logically you'd be able to get an aftermarket DAB receiver that uses the MDI.

I guess the short answer to your question for the moment is that it's in the "too hard" basket.

[dwaynem]

It appears that my Tiguan does have a DAB+ digital radio - upon the launch of DAB+ yesterday now pretty much all the commercial stations are broadcasting the song title and artist.....? Strange thing is VW Australia and Bill Buckle the dealer don't seem to know this...and worse still there are no manuals that cover the radio that I have in any Tiguan they have on the lot.

I would love to get a manual, but don't even know the model number of the radio installed in my car.

[NZTiguan]

It appears that my Tiguan does have a DAB+ digital radio - upon the launch of DAB+ yesterday now pretty much all the commercial stations are broadcasting the song title and artist.....? Strange thing is VW Australia and Bill Buckle the dealer don't seem to know this...and worse still there are no manuals that cover the radio that I have in any Tiguan they have on the lot.

I would love to get a manual, but don't even know the model number of the radio installed in my car.

Have you checked in the back of your Tiguan Manual ? In mine the radio (RCD510 in my case) has its own booklet as the last section of the manual.

Cheers

[Maverick]

It appears that my Tiguan does have a DAB+ digital radio - upon the launch of DAB+ yesterday now pretty much all the commercial stations are broadcasting the song title and artist.....? Strange thing is VW Australia and Bill Buckle the dealer don't seem to know this...and worse still there are no manuals that cover the radio that I have in any Tiguan they have on the lot.

The standard head units have been capable of this for a while and it has nothing to do with DAB.

[Moonan]

Make sure when researching this that you know that Australia's digital broadcasting is DAB+ and not the older DAB that is in Europe (with DAB+ just coming out). A DAB+ receiver will work with either, but a DAB receiver will not pick up DAB+, and so can't be used in Australia.
Both ABC and major commercials in capital cities are now broadcasting in digital (DAB+)

Enjoy if you can get it, here in the sticks (Newcastle) it's not even on the horizon!

[mickofoz]

I have just received this reply from my dealer about the RNS510 head unit in my new Tigga.

"The radio in your car is digital capable. When the time comes, there will become available a “set top” style box that will be added to somewhere behind the dash that will then allow for receiving of digital stations.
Currently some of the FM stations are broadcasting track information on the FM band and this can be viewed on the radio in your car..."

So there you go. When the times comes....
I wonder how long before time is here.:rolleyes:

[clip]

who would know? and even when it does, it will probably be way over-priced anyway!

[Maverick]

who would know? and even when it does, it will probably be way over-priced anyway!

Define over priced chip?

Something that is sold and supported in a country where the annual sales are less than those of one state of the USA? A country which is using a standard which has not yet been finalised and which no other countries are using yet? A country where DAB+ is only in limited areas further limiting the potential market? A country populated by slow adopters further limiting the potential market?

Looking forward to your reasoned response.

[clip]

A country populated by slow adopters further limiting the potential market?
Maverick you know the names clip, not chip (but if that's a reference to the fact that I have a modified Tig, then I would much prefer the correct terminology which in this case would be "remap" or "reprogram", but certainly not "chip"). But please explain "slow adopters" before I give you a "reasoned response" :).

[G-rig]

That's not bad.. VW do a good job of developing the add-ons after bringing out the head unit. The MDI is a good example.

It may not be cheap but could be better than buying a new head unit (like if you had an after market one).

I'm not that interested in digital radio yet and chances are it will most likely be compressed and not even sound as good.

[Maverick]

Maverick you know the names clip, not chip (but if that's a reference to the fact that I have a modified Tig, then I would much prefer the correct terminology which in this case would be "remap" or "reprogram", but certainly not "chip"). But please explain "slow adopters" before I give you a "reasoned response" :).

Slow adopters refers to the fact that Australia is a slow adopter of new technologies. The digital TV take up is a clear indicator of this and the cutover has been delayed something like 4 times now.

As far as technology goes this country is way way behind and the market for the DAB+ upgrade for the RNS 510 is going to be very limited and might only number in the 10's for retrofitting.

[clip]

chances are it will most likely be compressed and not even sound as good.
that's the really funny thing at the moment and indicates just how gullible we can be. For years and years we have been striving to produce better recording formats for listening to music. We had LP's, tapes, CD's, DVD Audio, etc etc. Now we have little choice in our music but a lossy, compressed format that sounds average at best. But we are now happy to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on amps, speakers and players - just to listen to mp3's! It's hilarious :rolllaugh:

[mickofoz]

that's the really funny thing at the moment and indicates just how gullible we can be. For years and years we have been striving to produce better recording formats for listening to music. We had LP's, tapes, CD's, DVD Audio, etc etc. Now we have little choice in our music but a lossy, compressed format that sounds average at best. But we are now happy to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on amps, speakers and players - just to listen to mp3's! It's hilarious :rolllaugh:

Clip! As much as I hate to admit it, you are 100% right.
Can someone explain the difference between DAB and DAB+?
Is the signal heavily compressed?
In terms of quality, is DAB+ compareable to mp3 or CD or better?

As for overpriced... if a map update for the rns510 is over $400 (which is overpriced) then I don't have much hope for a reasonable price on the DAB+ add-on.

[G-rig]

Yeah i now try not to listen to compressed music at all. Defeats putting a lot of effort into a good sound setup. But on a good system MP3 will still sound ok (at <256kbps) but just not amazing.

You'd want the radio stations to transmit over 96kbps or higher preferrably.

The MDI and my ipod with apple lossless sounds quite good enough for the car, worth it for the convenience.

[Maverick]

Clip! As much as I hate to admit it, you are 100% right.
Can someone explain the difference between DAB and DAB+?
Is the signal heavily compressed?
In terms of quality, is DAB+ compareable to mp3 or CD or better?

DAB+ used a more efficient audio code that can transmit the same or better audio quality using a bit rate that is a third of DAB.

DAB = MPEG Audio Layer II (MP2)
DAB+ = High Efficiency AAC v2 (MP4/AAC+)

DAB generally 128 kbps.
DAT+ generally 40 kbps which is equal to or better than 128 kbps.


As for overpriced... if a map update for the rns510 is over $400 (which is overpriced) then I don't have much hope for a reasonable price on the DAB+ add-on.

What is the correlation between the two, I fail to see how a DAB add on that will work with all the third generation headunits correlates to the price a dealer charges for map updates (especially when some dealers do them at no cost).

The option in the UK is only 200 pounds. Most additions are a similar price in Australia so I would expect around $500 for the parts.

[G-rig]

It's a bit like having digital TV with only 5 free to air stations, what's the point if there's nothing on.

I dont really listen to radio but would if we had a whole variety of genres like in the UK and internet radio stations. But i'd want over 128kbps at that sounds rubbish to me. 192 is listenable.

[G-rig]

As far as technology goes this country is way way behind

Sure is, Korea developed Digital Multimedia Broadcasting (DMB) years ago and almost all their standalone sat nav units have this feature so enabling you to watch TV and pretty cheap too.

People in japan also watch tv on their phones (not chewing up data like here).

We pay a premium here for old technology.

[Arctra]

OK, so I've found out a bit, and have some more questions.

If you go to this link you'll see most stations are allocated 192kbps channels: http://www.digitalradioaustralia.com.au/files/uploaded/file/Digital_Radio/Multiplex%20info.pdf
According to Sept 2009 issue of APC magazine, broadcasters are given 128kbps for each of their analog stations though. Of the allocations, the stations can choose what they want to push through, so for instance Austereo has split it's 128k pipe into two 64k pipes to push 2dayFM and Pink Radio. But because DAB+ can transmit data along with the audio stream, realistically the 64k stream is split further into 40-56k audio with the remainder used for datacasting (weather, breaking news, etc).

OK, so that's background info. Now as far as DAB+ for the car, I enquired with old Oskar about DAB+ support in the WD6050 replacement. Now Mav, I know you aren't a fan of this unit, but please humour me here. Oskar reckoned if you opt for the headunit with the built in digital TV tuner (DVB-T) it would support digital radio too. Now I don't have a digital TV tuner at home to test this, but hopefully someone can test this and tell me if it's true. Does an Australian DVB-T decoder support DAB+ broadcasts?

Thanks in advance for your responses

[Swallowtail]

No I don't believe so... I was setting up a DVB-T card in a PC yesterday, and when it scanned it found all of the TV stations and the 4 usual audio only channels that have been there for ages - DiG, etc. I think he's dreaming...

[G-rig]

64k would sound rubbish, what's the point unless you want to listen to the cricket..

[Swallowtail]

That's what I was thinking too... I know a 64k MP3 sounds pretty crap.