TSI squeal noise problem on acceleration

[coastie]

I have the 118 TSI and upon acceleration there is a squeal noise coming from the front end. I took it to the dealer and the tech was honest and said he had just read about this problem in the GT TSI that the water pump solenoid which is associated with the supercharger clutch assembly make a squeal for a brief time when accelerating.

The tech bulletin stated there was no known fix from VW but that my warranty would not be affected if there was a problem later on?

Has anyone else had this occur. It is a June 17th Tech bulletin so just a recent problem. Mine is 5000km and 2 months old.

The squeal is driving me nuts as I now consciously listen for it. I first thought it was a brake pad not clearing but it is definitely upon acceleration and the supercharger clutch sounds more like the area,

[Ozram]

Sure you don't have a boost leak? If one of the turbo / supercharger hoses is damaged or not sealing it can give a squealing noise.

[coastie]

No that would last longer this is a brief 1-2 second squeal, I've had a turbo hose leak and it's not the same. This has a metallic squeal so the clutch solenoid idea seems to point in the right direction.

[gldgti]

sorry, i couldnt help it - tyres braking traction? :-D

[Greg Roles]

Hamster stress?

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/06/hamster_wheel-2.jpg

[coastie]

That's funny,

[mr gee]

had the water pump changed on mine at 7000km

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1799

Youtube video on a 1.4 rocco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2XVbJmLEuU

[coastie]

This is exactly what I have going on with the acceleration squeak, the utube vision seems a bit higher in the rev range than mine and possibly associated witha gear change. Mine is a little lower in the rev range but consistent on the beginning of acceleration. As stated in original post there is a Tech Bulletin issued by VW that says they know of the problem but have no fix. I would like to see how Burwin got the replacement waterpump through as my VW dealer won't attempt anything until it is authorised as they won't be reimbursed by VW for the replacement part.

Thanks for the help.

[chylld]

Another youtube video of a user with the same problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLu73I1QD7M

Is this a widespread problem? Is there anyone with a 118TSI that does NOT have this problem?

[ox518]

I don't want to believe, but it seems a common problem on MKVI 118TSI now. Although I am still waiting for my new golf, I am so worried about this problem.

[mr gee]

What I'm surprised with is that I haven't noticed any reports of this problem on Mk Vs even though this engine originated on the Mk V as the GT.

Its seems to afflict the Scirocco and the Mk VI. Perhaps there's a batch or change in spec in the magnetic clutch.

[coastie]

I have written to VW to seek a response about addressing this annoying problem but I am still waiting. My dealer won't go any further referring constantly to the Tech bulletin from VW stating it won't harm the vehicle or affect my warranty claims. this is not good enough IMO. The noise comes from something that is not correct but they won't look for the problem.

[saveferris]

I have written to VW to seek a response about addressing this annoying problem but I am still waiting. My dealer won't go any further referring constantly to the Tech bulletin from VW stating it won't harm the vehicle or affect my warranty claims. this is not good enough IMO. The noise comes from something that is not correct but they won't look for the problem.

Its totally understandable......Its not only the point that it won't harm the vehicle or affect warranty claims, you paid premium coin for a car that was stated/advertised as having superior refinement and noise suppression. Really... what is the point of suppressing wind noise, tire noise and engine noise when its just been replaced with a noise "screech" even more so unbearable instead.

The dealer knows this and so does VW. Good on you for making noise, keep at them, they have to be held accountable.

[coastie]

VW Australia have responded very quickly and have requested I return vehicle for full inspection to address my problems. Have to wait 2 weeks for the loan car to be available so the saga continues. Thanks Dermot for the suggestion, it may just be that simple, I just don't like the initial response that there is nothing we can do at the moment.

[chylld]

I think Dermot's reply will prove to be very helpful in fixing this issue. I know when I get my 118TSI, if it has the problem I'll be going straight to the dealer and say "the guy at Wangara Volkswagen fixed this same problem before, and it was just a pully that needed lubricating."

Dermot: are you able to say which pully exactly?

[ox518]

I think we still need an official answer from VW to explain why the MK6 has such problem. It seems a really common problem worldwide.

[markw1009]

I hope they can fix this issue soon. I have just ordered a Jetta with a 118TSi but it is due for delivery in Sept. hope they can fix before then. I am somewhat concerned now.

[Paul_OH]

What I'm surprised with is that I haven't noticed any reports of this problem on Mk Vs even though this engine originated on the Mk V as the GT.


GT driver here, I have the same issue but haven't really let it bother me. I'll subscribe to thread though and if a fix is found will get it sorted next service.

[mr gee]

Paul,
you're the first Mk V I know of with this issue. Been searching stacks of forums on Mk Vs without anyone posting it as an issue. Maybe the Mk VI is that much quieter that everything else sounds loud lol.

[Rufus]

Is this issue only DSg or does it also apply to manual???

[coastie]

It is from the waterpump magnetic clutch upon acceleration. I have DSG but it is related to the waterpump pulley on acceleration not the gearbox.

[coastie]

Vehicle has now been officially inspected by the volkswagen dealer for the second time and again I have been advised this is a known operating noise for which there is no repair available.

They used an air compressor to blow around the supercharger/waterpump pulley and claim the noise is now gone but they expect it to return. Have driven the vehicle and noise is gone. Dealer suspects it will return, he likens it to a noisy air conditioner clutch and the metallic slip they can get when full of dust.

Not happy with response from VW but the noise is gone for the moment. When it returns I will be back on the VW Tech for a solution. I even mentioned the replacements made by Burwin and the suggestion about lubricating it from WA but they would not budge on the NO FIX available and we won't do any more.

[cktsi]

Unfortunately my comfortline 118 TSI started developing this problem monday of last week. I called Five Dock VW who encouraged me to take the car in, but they said that this is a known issue & "feature" of the car.

I'm not going to accept that answer.

I'm also glad to hear Dermot's answer. It really does sound as simple as lubricating a belt or some kind of part to make the noise go away. Whilst replacing the water pump may make the sound go away, I get the feeling it will just return without some good ol' lube.

Hopefully if enough of us 118TSI owners complain, VW will realise there's a systemic issue and will do a recall of some kind.

[Paul_OH]

This has been discussed a little here:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85976&highlight=tsi

The more I listen to it the more I think it is the S/Charger belt slipping momentarily upon the magnetic clutch engaging. For some reason though if I ease on the throttle to full boost it is silent however if I stomp it then it squeaks.
I'm still not too bothered though if a fix is found I'll be lining up to get it sorted.

cheers,

Paul

[GTom]

I'll put my hand up for another GT owner who has the noise.

Like Paul haven't really let it bother me as it happens rarely and before the supercharger (or while it is about to kick in)

[guliver_twist]

I think I have started noticing this on my car as well... It seems to happen around the 1800/2200 RPM mark... Its not very loud but can be heard..
also I don't accelerate hard when I hear it..
I do hope VW releases a fix..

[coastie]

Well I've just done 250km's since the dealer had a go at fixing it and you can guess what has happened.

Not as prominent as it was but I can still make it happen on some acceleration. I suspect it will progressively worsen to the point where it happens all the time upon acceleration. Mine didn't matter if I stomped it or applied it gently just the movement of the accelerator down would cause the squeal.

Back to the drawing board for VW. Being a "feature" or "known operating noise" was not featured when I bought the car. Perhaps an addendum to the advertising material. TSI the squeak included.

[cktsi]

This has been discussed a little here:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85976&highlight=tsi

The more I listen to it the more I think it is the S/Charger belt slipping momentarily upon the magnetic clutch engaging. For some reason though if I ease on the throttle to full boost it is silent however if I stomp it then it squeaks.
I'm still not too bothered though if a fix is found I'll be lining up to get it sorted.

cheers,

Paul

It does sound like something to do with the belt suddenly engaging whatever pulleys are engaged when the supercharger clutch comes "on" hard during moderate to heavy acceleration. I like the theory someone had about it actually being a pulley.

Hmmm... unfortunately it will bother me more than most cos I have the sunroof open a lot. I like hearing the whistle & whoosh of the supercharger! :biggrin: I can do without the chirp !! :duh:

Well Coastie, I think it won't be as bad as you make out. It will probably be like what the rest of us experience - only under heavy load. For those with a DSG (like me)... that'll be most of the time if you leave it in "D" :mad:

[coastie]

Dealer says it is the dust in the pulley/clutch on the waterpump slipping when the supercharger is just starting to boost causing a "millimetre of slip" and thus the noise. When they used the compressed air to remove the dust the noise went away although temporary. They are standing by the normal operating noise no known fix statement.

[saveferris]

I haven't heard of a manual TSI 118 with this is issue......is this only a known problem with just the DSG?

[hkogti]

I got some similar noise, took 2 months for the parts to come in...

Apparantly it is a part in the DSG failed...

[cktsi]

I haven't heard of a manual TSI 118 with this is issue......is this only a known problem with just the DSG?

OK, took it into Five Dock. They said it's a known problem on the tech bulletin and no fix for it. Apparently there's a butterfly flap for the induction tube going into the supercharger that makes the squeaky noise.

Supposedly VW Australia have instructed the workshops they will not pay the workshop to rectify this as a warranty fix.... so sounds like I have to write to VW Australia about this - and I will.

My angle is that if the cause is the butterfly flap, I want it replaced.

Straight afterwards I walked to the front of the building to the sales area & asked to test drive a 118TSI DSG demo car with more than 2,000km on the odo. I was taken for a drive with one more than 3,000. Sure enough, the squeak is also there.

The squeak required more provocation on this car than in mine to produce the squeak.

OX518... looks like you will probably have this same issue in some form & anyone else out there looking for a 118TSI.

As to the question on whether this appears in the manual - make take on this is it is likely to be there. However, having driven manuals for years (this DSG is first time I've owned an auto shifter), I know that manual drivers probably allow for more revs before changing to a higher gear thereby reducing the chance of a sudden load requirement on the supercharger. The takeup of the clutch engagement in manuals will be a lot smoother & more gradual than in the DSG.

So outwardly I'm thinking manual drivers will not see this issue as much. However, if they floor it while already in gear at below 3,300rpm, they probably will be able to reproduce the squeak.

DSG owners will see this because the gear change whilst smooth, is more 'sudden'. Also the DSG enjoys putting more load on the supercharger at lower revs (compared to my manual style of shifting which allows more revs before a gear change).

My tip for those with new 118TSI's is to run the car in very gently. Unfortunately I went with the philosophy of allowing more revs & trying to teach the DSG gearbox to change gears aggressively... don't force the car.

The other thing is if I shift the gears manually in the DSG, in ordinary driving I don't get the squeak. I only get it in sudden acceleration when driving in a sporty mode or if I leave the DSG in "Drive" when it rushes to 7th gear (it "struggles" in 6th & 7th gear).

[guliver_twist]

i drive a manual and it has the noise...
I dont think it is transmission related..
lets hope vw comes up with a fix.. it is a bit of a let down since the car is otherwise exceptionally quiet.
i shift around 2k-2.5k so high reving manual driver thing is not logical.

[dopey]

Sounds like a bloody HKS SSQV Blow-off valve in the videos!! VW have been watching too much The Fast & The Furious.

Well, there's one solution in the meantime. Turn up the music.

[MorganTSI118]

I have just discovered my car has started to do that annoying 'eek' sound. I have now done around 5000km in my TSI 118 DSG but I am unsure of when it actually started. It is starting to drive me mad!!!

I really hope someone finds out what is going on with the cars and a decent long lasting solution!

[Prawn07]

TSI118 DSG, developed same squeal noise at 1400km. Its irritating! Maybe I should have got the turbo diesel instead. I bet this is the only car in the world that makes this sound!

Took it to VW Chatswood, got similar response, no fix yet, VW are working on it, & asked me to get an update at my next service. I've asked them to ring the Wangara boys because they claim to have a solution.

I hope this is fixed for good in the next 6 months.

[Tommy]

Hi Folks

I've been reading with great interest your replies. My car developed the chirp at about 1500kms and VW says that this is normal and is a "characteristic" of the car. Pig's bum its normal. Its driving me nuts and they are refusing to fix it.

I have also had major issues with my brakes and the pedal assembly, booster/servos and electronics were replaced because there was a loud repetitive donging noise and vibration through the pedal. A couple of days later the noise came back so the whole job had to be done again.

The window wipers were shocking dragging across the glass and the whole assembly was replaced in about the 3rd week I had the car.

My car had a loud ticking noise from the B pillars which VW didn't know how to explain or fix until this week. They removed the doors and windows on my car to see if they could track down the noise. They couldn't. They re-attached the doors and have now put felt and other materials under the black glossy B pillar facade and they think this has fixed the noise.

At around 2500kms my car developed a loud grating clunking noise at slow speed stop start type driving on the freeway. They at first thought this was a software issue but this did not fix the problem. While they were testing the DSG it completely failed and they are now going to take a DSG out of a brand new car and put it in mine. Its madness.

My car has spent a total of 20 days in the VW workshop so far and there is no end in sight. I have begged VW for a new car or my money back but they won't budge. They've even threatened me with legal action if I contact them again!!! Can you believe it???

I reckon they've done around $30 000 in repairs, 3/4 the cost of the car. The DSG alone is $14 000 apparently.

All-in-all my Golf is a complete and utter disaster. World car of the year? World lemon of the decade.

[ox518]

Guys, seriously.....do you think I should withdraw my order??????? Maybe I should go for focus or even Mazda 3?????

[gregozedobe]

Guys, seriously.....do you think I should withdraw my order??????? Maybe I should go for focus or even Mazda 3?????

Golfs are really nice to drive, but a there do seem to more lemons than you'd expect.

Mind you, there are lots of Golfs driving around with zero problems that you never hear about, but if someone has an issue they tend to go looking for more info and are a lot more vocal about it than the satisfied customers. I call it a biased, self-selecting sample.

At least VW are (usually) pretty good at fixing things under warranty (for straight forward problems, anyway).

[Tommy]

I'll be dumping mine as soon as I get the damned thing back...

Mazda 3 SP25 looks the ticket.

Interestingly, the loan car VW supplied is a brand new Jetta 147TSI. The DSG on that is as rough as guts too. I just think the DSG must be fundamentally flawed in terms of design.

The Golf is fun to drive and it looks stylish but.... This is my third and it will be my last. My previous two Gen 5s were much better, but even still, the quality was questionable with squeaks and rattles and poorly fitted trim. I thought the new German built Gen 6 would be far superior, well it isn't, in my case anyhow....

[ox518]

Im still waiting for the offical solution from VW，hope it will be out before I pick the car........

[saveferris]

Hi Folks

I have begged VW for a new car or my money back but they won't budge. They've even threatened me with legal action if I contact them again!!! Can you believe it???




Was that threat from your dealership or VW Australia...its quite hilarious that they are trying to scare you, The last thing they want is bad publicity especially with a new model, i would be making as much noise as possible, or you could do what a mate of mine did......Fill the car up with lemons, leave it on the road outside the dealership with a nice sign, stating not to buy the car. Lets just say the dealership bent over backwards after that, he ended up with a new car. It was very amusing. (BTW) it was a Toyota.

[ox518]

Although I don't have my car yet, I still think we should do something about this issue. Maybe a protest outside VW AUS or a major dealership to give them some pressure.

[Tommy]

Hiya

This was through VW Australia and also the dealership who has chosen to ignore me.

They even said that they would involve my employer because I've sent emails during work hours.... Real 100% bullying behaviour there....

God forbid VW should be inconvenienced in any way... its not like I have?? sheesh.

I like the lemon idea. Where can I get hold of a heap of lemons? ;-)

[ox518]

I am really wondering if anyone got the 118TSI DSG but does not have this noise problem????????????????????

[saveferris]

Hiya

This was through VW Australia and also the dealership who has chosen to ignore me.

They even said that they would involve my employer because I've sent emails during work hours.... Real 100% bullying behaviour there....

God forbid VW should be inconvenienced in any way... its not like I have?? sheesh.

I like the lemon idea. Where can I get hold of a heap of lemons? ;-)

Wow, they really are trying to walk allover you, I really despise this ( walking all over the little man) because i'm quite spitefull when it comes to things like this, i would do the lemon thing, especially on a Saturday, there busiest day. When they see potential customers looking at your car reading the list of problems then driving away......... bottom line pain for the dealer principal.

I'm actually getting angry reading this. Ha!

[mr gee]

[QUOTE=Tommy;364623]Hi Folks


My car had a loud ticking noise from the B pillars which VW didn't know how to explain or fix until this week. They removed the doors and windows on my car to see if they could track down the noise. They couldn't. They re-attached the doors and have now put felt and other materials under the black glossy B pillar facade and they think this has fixed the noise.

I noticed that the Italian Golf Forumer reported some fix on the creaking B pilar though google translation left the details a bit vague

http://74.125.153.132/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=it&tl=en&u=http://www.vwgolfcommunity.com/vbulletin/scricchiolii_porta_sinistra-t11414.html&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgKMFkTq-8H0UXEWkoLdYC1uam9xA

[chylld]

I think I'll stick to my hyundai after all. Appears that my reliability concerns with VW weren't unfounded.

I had a similar disaster experience with my brand new Honda civic. 35 warranty problems in total, including a failed engine mount, loose airbag and broken brakes. Kicked up a huge s&$t getting things fixed (got someone at Honda fired in the process) but in the end realised that the best warranty in the world won't help you if the actual car you have is a lemon.

[JasonP]

I am really wondering if anyone got the 118TSI DSG but does not have this noise problem????????????????????

My 118TSI has done 2500 kms without any noise or concerns re the DSG, nor any other engine/gearbox related sounds.

Occassionally hear a faint ticking noise from the B Pillar on the drivers side though.......... thought I was going crazy......

However, I haven't heard it for a couple of weeks.

[Guest]

If you want to hear the correct issue!!!!! it is when the super charger is kicking in it causes a vibration which you hear as a squeak it is caused by the metal plate gripping the clutch plate on the water pump it is obviously going to cause a noise!!! Volkswagen know this and are in the process of a solution they have not forgot about you!!!!:biggrin: so replacement parts and lubricating are just short term fixes you just have to be patient for the long term fix dealers are being instructed not to do anything eg; replacing water pump or lubricating due tho the fact if you lubricate it who knows what happens the the friction lining of the clutch plate????? Or replacement parts are just being redebited back the the business. They did not build the car so why should they pay for it???? My Sunshine Coast VW dealer has explained the issue to me and i was very happy with what the Foreman explained. I would rather wait for a long term fix than a quick one ie; lube or replacment. I say be patient and a long term solution will come P.s it also happens with DSG's and Manual's also with Golf V 1.4 T.S.I Golf VI's are quieter so thats why the noise is more prominent :)

[rosslm]

I am looking at buying a TSI 90 however with the Comfort package you still get the Trendline seat trim so I have had to take another look at the TSI 118. Had a good test drive today, the demo had about done 3500K, windows down I did hear the so-called squeal once but I have to say I didn't find it to be loud or even annoying. I would describe it a bit like a whip sound probably less than a second. I am sure a fix couldn't be to far away. Compared to myriad turbos I hear waste gates popping, cracking and farting generating all manner of strange sounds this was tame.

[Tommy]

Hiya

I've been told that the screech comes from the supercharger clutch. VW at this stage states that this is normal and a known "characteristic" of the car. If this is so, why is this not advised at the time of purchase? They know if they did that they'd lose more than a few sales... This is an issue for sure... a very annoying one.

I was told that whilst testing my car at the workshop the other day, the DSG completely failed. I was at first told that this too was "normal". I now wonder what damage may have been done to my car while I've been driving it around with a faulty DSG? I believe that the DSG is around $14 000 to replace, don't know if this includes labour. My calculations put repairs to my car in the region of $30 000. This is incredible considering that my car is only 3 months old and VW kept saying that nothing was wrong with it.

VW why won't you admit defeat and give me a new car? Its been in your damned workshop for 15 days now with no end in sight. This car is a lemon, purely and simply....

[Guest]

The super charger and water pump are the same clutch!!! :brutal:

[Guest]

Coastie i dont really understand your problem? Would you rather wait for a long term fix? So noise is than gone for good? or just a short term lube or replacement? So the noise then comes back. My bet is they will have a replacement part with a different material for friction lining so noise is forever gone.

[guliver_twist]

How far away is the longerm fix?

[Tommy]

Hi There

I just had my DSG replaced under warranty and it seems to have made the supercharger screech disappear so I'm wondering if this is just a coincidence or if the noise is related to the transmisison in some way?

[guliver_twist]

Hi There

I just had my DSG replaced under warranty and it seems to have made the supercharger screech disappear so I'm wondering if this is just a coincidence or if the noise is related to the transmisison in some way?

Should not be...as mine is manual and exhibits the squeak..

[Paul_OH]

Back to the MkV, I just returned from a 3200km driving holiday and upon return nary a squeak to be found. I can't make it happen no matter what I do, strange and eerily quiet! :rolleyes:

[rosslm]

Here is a good overview of the technology, I suggest the electromagnetic supercharger clutch may have been changed slightly since the original GT 125KW where it doesn't seem to be as problematic. Or a slight change of design or possibly a batch of clutches causing noise problems in Golf VI TSI 118. I suspect it is in the dynamic supercharger range from approximately 2000-3500 RPM that this noise would be annoying as it can cut in and out depended on load variation at a steady speed

see

http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en2/experience/innovation/powertrain/technology.html

click TSI twincharger link

next click More efficiency link and [1] The interplay of turbocharger and compressor [2] Dynamic compressor control

then click More Power link and [1] The individual components [2] Processes when pulling away

I have read some posts where the compressor can be heard at idle, this may be the case after hard driving where the motor management system is anticipating the need for charge at idle speed, normally at idle the supercharger is off

this will give a good overview of the technology

hope this helps

[cktsi]

see

http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en2/experience/innovation/powertrain/technology.html

click TSI twincharger link

next click More efficiency link and [1] The interplay of turbocharger and compressor [2] Dynamic compressor control

then click More Power link and [1] The individual components [2] Processes when pulling away


That's a really cool link!

And yes... even on the website, when I press the accelerator hard in the Flash presentation I get the squeak, so it must be a feature!!

j::rolllaugh:

(just joking)

[MIRSAD]

Hi,
My story:
Mar 09 118TSI with DSG - happy
2 months after squealing noise - worried
Stretched between dealership, VW customer care and technical support - angry
Water pump replaced - no squealing noise - happy again
4 weeks after noise is back - disappointed
After written respond from VW Australia that squealing noise is normal - really angry
I decided to take action (with Dep. of consumer protection) at the same time I recorded noise on iphone and posted on You tube under VW GOLF 118TSI NOISE... - this is address
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLu73I1QD7M
New Dealership (Wangara WA) where I bought my car wanted to test it for 2 days.
They found that problem is (as some people indicated) pulley - lubricated it and I am without noise 7 - 8 weeks for how long they can't tell me ... I am hoping that when problem is identified and short term solution found that permanent solution should not be far away
Then I found this website... after hearing about all the problems - I am worried again

[Guest]

ALl well and good. But how long will the lubrication fix it for? And do you think its a good idea to lubricate something that is meant to grip ie: the clutch? What if it starts slipping? What are the long term effects of lubricating the friction material? Because i know gearbox clutches dont like getting oil on them.

[MIRSAD]

Thank You on that information,
Really I am not technical person and I am going to ask service manager about that when I go there next time.
I am really not sure what was lubricated (he was talking about pulley)... I was so happy when noise is gone and if they are "factory trained technicians" with experience who would be thinking that they are going to do something stupid.

[tinto]

Are you guys talking about the sc chirp when it engages/disengages or something more prolonged?

If it is the chirp... I found that just one of the cool sounds of the twincharged engine and never considered it something to worry about.(mkv gt sport)
Feels like a tiny sound is being blown out of proportion if we are thinking of the same thing.

Edit : are you on and off the accelerator on that video clip or is that normal driving?
If that is normal driving / steady on the accelerator then the repetitive chirp is pretty annoying, but if you're on/off the accelerator, then see my comments above... I found it a charming sound :P

It is like filing a complaint that there is sound coming out of my exhaust when surely it is only for gasses. ;)

[MIRSAD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLu73I1QD7M
You can hear it on this You tube address - I recorded it on iphone

[tinto]

Yep, edited my post after watching it.

[MIRSAD]

It is coming when you press accelerator ... for me it is annoying (like metal on metal) especially for so quite car.

[tinto]

yep - it is fair enough that you want that system to be quiet.
I enjoyed the noises my GT TSI made, IMO a twincharger certainly makes more interesting sounds than my Pirelli GTI does.

different strokes for different folks - good luck in your dealings with VW.
I hope that those who want a resolution/fix get it before they lose faith in a great car.

[Tommy]

I've lost faith. My 118TSI is the biggest hunk of junk on the road, its falling to bits. Its had around $30 000 of repairs and its only 3 months old and there's still more to fix... I'm over it....

[cktsi]

Had another drive with the VW Service Centre at Mascot. They confirmed it’s not a butterfly flap, but the waterpump pulley when it engages – just like everyone else is saying here.

They also said that there’s a tech bulletin out there and currently no known fix.

I asked them about lubricating any of the pulleys, but their response is that the squeak happens when the clutch engages… it has to be a high friction surface… so they didn’t want to lubricate anything at all as it’s contrary to the way the part is intended to work.

They also didn’t want to replace the water pump only for the problem to return – fair call.

They are hoping for some resolution as they do know it’s a widely reported issue. They couldn’t promise anything (of course) and hinted that VW are working on some fix.

[MorganTSI118]

I am yet to have any dealings with VW because I definately know they are aware of this problem and will have to come up with a fix soon. I have not lost faith in my car!! I love it!! I think some cars are just going to be lemons like the one mentioned above.
My family has bought 3 golfs - 2 are gen 5 and then mine which is gen 6. One of the gen 5's is fine and approximately 3 years old. The other one is around 4 years and has just started all these problems. The DSG failed the other day on my sister and the car had to be towed to a service centre and VW are refusing to pay for it (as it is no longer in warranty). But really.. should this happen to a 4 year old car? The DSG is supposed to set my dad back a nice $11,000!!!!! The car would be what? worth 16,000? It is ridiculous. He is angry and going to trade it in as soon as possible for something cheap and japanese.

He has lost all faith in VW and has let them know it. Telling them he is going to get rid of all his cars including his Tiguan which doesn't even use a DSG. I am not letting him get his hands on my car as I love to drive it even if that squeal drives me insane and I have to turn the music/radio up loud. I know something will have to be done about it eventually...

[MorganTSI118]

I was just looking around and found this website -
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/291308/1929508.aspx

One of the posts mentioned something about an email/letter than suggests a fix will be ready in about 2-4 months! Thats in England I think but its still promising!

[Flighter]

The other one is around 4 years and has just started all these problems. The DSG failed the other day on my sister and the car had to be towed to a service centre and VW are refusing to pay for it (as it is no longer in warranty). But really.. should this happen to a 4 year old car? The DSG is supposed to set my dad back a nice $11,000!!!!! The car would be what? worth 16,000? It is ridiculous. He is angry and going to trade it in as soon as possible for something cheap and japanese.

He has lost all faith in VW and has let them know it. Telling them he is going to get rid of all his cars including his Tiguan which doesn't even use a DSG. I am not letting him get his hands on my car as I love to drive it even if that squeal drives me insane and I have to turn the music/radio up loud. I know something will have to be done about it eventually...

Just because it is out of the *express* warranty does not mean that VW is off the hook. Most people are unaware that the *statutory* or *implied* warranty still applies after the express warranty is over. For example, you drop $3,000 on a 50" TV and it comes with a 1 year warranty. Month 13 rolls around and it dies. The store that sold it is still liable, as a reasonable person would consider that such a TV should last longer than a year. They won't admit to this, but the law is on the side of the consumer. Note that merchant generally transfers responsibility for warranty issues to the customer and the manufacturer, but technically (i.e. legally) the contract is between the customer and the merchant, hence warranty claims are the merchant's problem.

So, should your sister's DSG have lasted more than 4 years? Depends whether it has seen reasonable use or not. Running 250,000 kms through it would likely lead the reasonable person to conclude that it had a fair life. But for only 40,000 km or so, I'd say the opposite would be the case, otherwise it could not be seen as a product of *merchantable quality*. If your sister's car falls into the latter category, she may wish to pursue the matter, although it will take patience and a willingness to get the ACCC or others involved should VW refuse. VW would be aware of their responsibilities in this regard, and possibly like everybody else, they rely on the ignorance of the consumer, or pure bluff, to get away with avoiding it. Sometimes it's as easy as saying "sure, the *express* warranty is over, but not the *implied* warranty." Personally, I wouldn't take no for an answer, although I would expect to make some token payment towards the solution just to make them feel better about it.

The ACCC web site has useful info on how to make a complaint properly; i.e. politely, in writing, stating what is wrong, how you want the matter dealt with etc., so why not suggest your sister take a look. www.accc.gov.au

Good luck

Flighter

[MaccaTSI]

Just noticed this morning that I have the squeaking noise. Only seem to notice it when gearbox is under heavy load like others have mentioned. Had the stereo off so hopefully I won't notice it too much when driving normally with the stereo on.

Hopefully there will be a fix for it soon!

[Tommy]

The TSI engine has been around for about 4 years in the form of the GT, you would think that all issues with it would have been ironed out by now? I'm also confused as to what exactly this problem is. Some people have been told its the supercharger clutch, others have been told its the water pump and others have offered completely different explanations/theories. I'm beginning to think that VW doesn't have a clue? Why has it taken VW 4 years to come up with a 'fix', this would support my notion that they are clueless?

The DSG was replaced in my car a few weeks ago at 2500kms and the chirp seems to have largely disappeared, I have only heard it a couple of times since. This kind of suggests to me that the issue may have something to do with the clutch mechanism.

My car has been plagued with a long list of issues which are ongoing. I'm looking for an opportunity to offload it as soon as I can. Its a shame, this was my 3rd Golf and after being treated so badly and in a threatening manner by VW, there will never be another VW in my garage. the build quality simply isn't there....

[MorganTSI118]

I am pretty sure the car has done around 110,00km. WHich would also make it out of the 100,000 warranty (if the car wasn't already 4 years old). At the moment my dad is trying to be patient but they have come back and suggested that they can replace something else that controls the DSG (Sorry im not up with the technical names)... it is some computer part. THey said it will cost him around 2500 instead of the 11,000. However my dad has read things online where the DSG has still failed after this part has been fitted. Im pretty sure he wants to just pay for it and get rid of the car! He is pissed!!! I would be fighting it as well. I will show them the link and see how they go:) Thanks!.

As for the squeal - it has only been noticeable since the new cars are just soo quiet. I just wish they had done something about the cars in europe before sending them to Australia, as I am sure someone would have noticed in that time.

[soogs]

[QUOTE=Tommy;376484]The TSI engine has been around for about 4 years in the form of the GT, you would think that all issues with it would have been ironed out by now? I'm also confused as to what exactly this problem is. Some people have been told its the supercharger clutch, others have been told its the water pump and others have offered completely different explanations/theories. I'm beginning to think that VW doesn't have a clue? Why has it taken VW 4 years to come up with a 'fix', this would support my notion that they are clueless?

The DSG was replaced in my car a few weeks ago at 2500kms and the chirp seems to have largely disappeared, I have only heard it a couple of times since. This kind of suggests to me that the issue may have something to do with the clutch mechanism.

Am fairly keen to get the new 118TSI in the future but all these negative comments are putting me off. Interestingly, there aren't many posts in Uk forums compalining about problems with MkVI. Their posts are mainly comestic ones.

With the squel, is it the twincharger motor, the DSG or a combination of both. The DSG is also available in the diesel. Do they have the same problems? Like you mentioned, even VW has no idea.

[cktsi]

I'm also confused as to what exactly this problem is. Some people have been told its the supercharger clutch, others have been told its the water pump and others have offered completely different explanations/theories.

It's one in the same thing. The clutch and waterpump are connected together (probably the same pulley). Sorry for the confusion.

I've had the same experience as you Tommy. I had a Mark V Comfortline 2.0 FSI and that had tons of issues.

I also agree that it's strange that we're seeing the issues & we should have expected them to have been ironed out in Europe before the batch of cars delivered to Oz.

[Guest]

The DSG gearbox has nothing to do with it due to the fact it happens on manual gearbox's too!
Also Golf V GT had 6 speed DSG's where as the Golf VI has the 7 speed DSG totally different gearbox's.

[Guest]

The supercharger runs off a belt which is attached to the water pump pully so the clutch cuts in when needed for supercharging hearing the squeak. So the the waterpump pulley is attache to the supercharger clutch being the same item. Has anyone ever heard on older cars the AC compressor cutting in a very similar noise. To the S/charger squeak.

[soogs]

The supercharger runs off a belt which is attached to the water pump pully so the clutch cuts in when needed for supercharging hearing the squeak. So the the waterpump pulley is attache to the supercharger clutch being the same item. Has anyone ever heard on older cars the AC compressor cutting in a very similar noise. To the S/charger squeak.

Yeah my old Honda used to do that when you first turn the aircon on. It was only at start up and also only intermittent. I blamed it on a slippery belt at start up, but that wouldn't explain it happening to a new supercharger would it?

[mr gee]

damn!! It's back. After a 4000km break with the replacement supercharger clutch, a small squek has reared its ugly head.

Oh well, sigh, wait for VW to present a permanent fix.

[rosslm]

Over the past week I have been fortunate enough to first drive a 103 TDI DSG with ACC and today a TSI 118 DSG with ACC. In both cases I covered suburban, freeway and highway driving and I've got to say both cars exhibit a smoothness and quietness to the point where it's hard to choose between the two. The TSI is quieter off the mark but both are super smooth and quiet at speed. In terms of economy I found the TDI approximately 1-1.5 L per 100K better than the TSI but the TSI has a slight performance edge which is a trade off for the TDI economy. In the TDI a run to Wollongong and back including suburban traffic I averaged 4.8L per 100K and short trips around town sometimes with the engine not fully warm averaged 7L per 100K. I specifically wanted to compare the two because of the squeal-chirp reported in some TSIs the TSI I drove has done over 4000K and in 250K I heard it a couple of times but unless you were specifically aware of the squeal-chirp I dare say most people wouldn't even notice it. I noticed in normal driving the engine rarely gets to the rev range where supercharger will cut back in. Most of the time around town the engine is only running around 1100-1500 rpm with seven gears and so much torque from the supercharger which is on permanently up to 2000 rpm obviously there will be no squeal-chirp in this rev range. I found the DSG a tremendous gearbox in both cases TDI 6 and TSI 7 speed, the DSG is intuitive selecting lower gears for engine breaking even in D mode but the speed and smoothness of changes impressed in both. So I'm stuck with the choice of ultimate economy of the TDI or a high tech TSI with the possibility of the occasional squeal-chirp which from what I can see is probably only noticed because the car is so smooth and quiet anyway. I've got to say the TSI is a technological marvel almost turbine like in its power delivery and smoothness. The ACC is also a great option sport on the freeway if only for the sharpness of the steering, I found the ride good in all modes, you would only need comfort mode on the worst of roads and I guess we do have plenty of them. Anyway that's my experience of the two Golf's.

[ox518]

Does anyone have ticking noise from somewhere behind steering wheel? I found this noise these days and it comes all the time unless deadly flat road.

[MIRSAD]

After 2 months 3000 km squealing noise is back,
Next week I am going back to VW dealer.

One dealer replaced w/pump after 4000 km because of noise… noise was back after 2 weeks
Other dealer cleaned and lubricated something and it was OK for 2 months and 3000 km… Next week I am going back to second dealer
I am not sure what was lubricated (I am not technical person and after reading some comments – I am concern) especially when I saw somebody indicated that VW is advising against lubrication - warranty issue.
If anybody is having information what should not be lubricated according to VW, can You please, give me more details...I need them before going back to VW dealership next week

Thank You

[MaccaTSI]

Does anyone have ticking noise from somewhere behind steering wheel? I found this noise these days and it comes all the time unless deadly flat road.

Hey ox, I've noticed this as well sometimes. For me it is the badge on the steering wheel, like the adhesive keeping the badge on is settling or something, mostly only here it on hot days. If you push the badge you might here it a bit...

[sillygogo]

An unofficial update from the VW service center, there will be a new lubricant coming out to resolve the gear change noise issue..don't know when though.

[ox518]

I think mine is from inside behind MFD or Steering Wheel, anyway, I have booked in next Thurs, let you know the results.


Hey ox, I've noticed this as well sometimes. For me it is the badge on the steering wheel, like the adhesive keeping the badge on is settling or something, mostly only here it on hot days. If you push the badge you might here it a bit...

[ox518]

An unofficial update from the VW service center, there will be a new lubricant coming out to resolve the gear change noise issue..don't know when though.

That's a really good news~~

[Tommy]

I solved all of my issues by buying a new car from a different manufacturer. So glad that my Golf will be out of my life in a matter of days.

Soon to be ex owner of Golf 118TSI DSG Sports pack.

[sillygogo]

waaaa, what did you got for the replacement?

[ox518]

Have you traded in your golf? How much value left?


I solved all of my issues by buying a new car from a different manufacturer. So glad that my Golf will be out of my life in a matter of days.

Soon to be ex owner of Golf 118TSI DSG Sports pack.

[Tommy]

Sadly, I've only had the car for 4 months and its been a complete disaster. This was my third new Golf. Prior to this I had two Gen 5s.

I've only done 3200kms in it. Luckily, I got a good trade in value which meant the jump to a $40 000 car wasn't too bad. I thought it best to bail now while it was worth a decent amount of money.

I've gone for a Japanese Zoom Zoom car this time.

[ox518]

My dealership called me this morning regarding the new vehicle experiences etc. I asked him about this squeal noise, he said that what he got from VW was normal noise and we don't actually need to worry about it (same as a lot people got from their dealer). However, he mentioned that VW is working on it and trying to replace some new parts between supercharger and water pump. He also mentioned that some vehicles do not have such noise and some do. But I think the noise will come to mine in one day.......

So, apparently what we need to do is waiting for the solution from VW. They have to come out some fix, otherwise no one will buy 118TSI in the future anymore.

[Guest]

After 2 months 3000 km squealing noise is back,
Next week I am going back to VW dealer.

One dealer replaced w/pump after 4000 km because of noise… noise was back after 2 weeks
Other dealer cleaned and lubricated something and it was OK for 2 months and 3000 km… Next week I am going back to second dealer
I am not sure what was lubricated (I am not technical person and after reading some comments – I am concern) especially when I saw somebody indicated that VW is advising against lubrication - warranty issue.
If anybody is having information what should not be lubricated according to VW, can You please, give me more details...I need them before going back to VW dealership next week

Thank You

VW have informed the dealers not to lubricate the supercharger/waterpump clutch for fear of what it may do to the friction lining of the clutch

[MIRSAD]

VW have informed the dealers not to lubricate the supercharger/waterpump clutch for fear of what it may do to the friction lining of the clutch


THANK YOU
I am going to ask them just to clean it (if some of lubricant is left) and definitely not to lubricate it.

I just don't know what to do my car

[Tommy]

Mirsad I know what you mean. I saw no option other than to sell my car. I took a financial hit but it was worth it. VW wouldn't help and there's no way I would ever give them another cent of my money.

I couldn't put up with the inconvenience any longer, nor could I take a risk with the brakes on my car. To this day VW has refused to put in writing that the brakes are safe. Doesn't fill me with confidence. I'm also pretty certain that the DSG is failing again too. The back doors leak water too and this is a result of them removing the doors. Complete disaster.

I wish you all the best with your car and I hope that you have a happy outcome.

[POLARBEAR666]

Has anyone with a 2007 GT 1.4 got this or is it only the newer mark 6 "made on mondays" that have this
I feel your pain guys, they just don't make them like my car anymore.

[rosslm]

From looking at German forums a fix may not be far away, a modified supercharger clutch assembly

see forums

http://www.michaelneuhaus.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7130&start=75

http://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf6/golf6-probleme.htm

use Google language tools to translate

http://www.google.com/language_tools?q=translation+sites&hl=en

[tdi guy]

Has anyone with a 2007 GT 1.4 got this or is it only the newer mark 6 "made on mondays" that have this
I feel your pain guys, they just don't make them like my car anymore.

No noises apparent on my 08 GT Sport, though of course I had my very own wiring harness issue with my s/charger...

TG

[Schnapp]

I've got a little bit of this squeal noise (on and off) but its not very obvious so dont usually notice it unless its very quiet. Only seem to get it when im in "D".

Not sure if any of you guys experience this but when i put the DSG in "S" when accelerating it sounds all good, but when I take my foot off the accelerator, and the RPM starts to reduce, there is a softish screeching noise (its separate from the down rev of the engine, as you can hear the sound come on top of the engine noise). Happens from >3k rpm down to about 2k rpm, 3rd/4th/5th gear.

Sounds like its maybe the supercharger?

[cktsi]

My dealership called me this morning regarding the new vehicle experiences etc. I asked him about this squeal noise, he said that what he got from VW was normal noise and we don't actually need to worry about it (same as a lot people got from their dealer). However, he mentioned that VW is working on it and trying to replace some new parts between supercharger and water pump. He also mentioned that some vehicles do not have such noise and some do. But I think the noise will come to mine in one day.......

So, apparently what we need to do is waiting for the solution from VW. They have to come out some fix, otherwise no one will buy 118TSI in the future anymore.

I just called up the workshop to see if they could fix this while they were fixing my other engine issues (see separate thread on 118TSI blow up). It was interesting that they told me the same thing that they've seen VW paperwork go through discussing that they are working on a solution to replace the parts Ox has mentioned.

Still no timetable, but it's more information than I've heard previously and it's good to hear this again from someone at VW.

[MIRSAD]

Hi CKTSI
About Your thread - rattling noise - IS IT RELATED TO YOUR CURRENT PROBLEM WITH ENGINE
In my case I am not sure is it rattling noise ... it is difficult to describe noise (especially for me... English is not my first language)
In my case it sounds like ta…ta…ta like tractor, or 2 stroke engine – just for a few seconds when you accelerate just slightly faster from standing (or constant slow driving) position.
It happened 7 - 8 times in 6 months.
Ones...
I stopped (it was just a few degree up hill) and when I accelerated (slightly faster ... not more than 4000 rpm) the noise was so laud and disturbing that I stopped after few hundred meters to see is my exhaust system still there.
In that few seconds it sounded like I was dragging my exhaust sys. or some metal pot on cobblestone.
Otherwise it is not so laud only disturbing and embarrassing
Same thing I couldn't reproduce it when I was visiting dealer
DO YOU (OR ANYBODY ELSE) HAVE NAY MORE INFORMATION
Was that noise related to Your other problems (that You are talking in this thread)

Good Luck with Your car

[cktsi]

Hi CKTSI
About Your thread - rattling noise - IS IT RELATED TO YOUR CURRENT PROBLEM WITH ENGINE

No, I don't think it's a compression issue. The vibration noise was specifically at rpm less than 1,400 rpm and going on any uphill gradient (slight or otherwise)

[MIRSAD]

That address
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=de|en&u=http://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf6/golf6-probleme.htm&prev=/translate_s%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dhttp://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf6/golf6-probleme.htm%26sl%3Den%26tl%3Dde
originally provided by rossim is useful

[Tommy]

Hi Mirsad

When my car was inspected by Consumer Protection they found that the bracket attaching the exhaust pipe to the engine block was almost ready to fall off. The nuts looked like they had only been finger tightened. This seemed to solve the problem for a couple of weeks but the car did make that same awful rattling sound which sounded like a hammer being banged on a sheet of tin when I was taking the car to trade it in.

I think it also has something to do with the heat flashing which looked like it was dropping away from the side of the engine bay.

My car made the noise you are describing in the same manner, accelerating up a hill and also accelerating down a slight hill...

[twotribez]

Hello Guys,

I have stayed away from the forums for quite sometime because of all this stuff??!!!!!!!

Jeez makes me worried again...

I too have this chirping noise and the gearbox clunking noise upon stop go acceleration.

Mind you because of the gearbox clunk, I was given a new car by my dealer as it was the first time I bought a VW. No fuss at all but the noise is still there on the new car and honestly, I can;t be stuffed anymore.

It will be my first and last VW. Quality control is not there and I think it is because they are trying to sell a 35k car with technology usually found in mid 50k cars. Example being the DSG gearboxes. They can't be cheap. So I think if I want good and high tech vehicles next time I will have to opt for the more expensive cars.

But with that said, BMWs and Mercs also have problems but probably not to this level in a brand new car, they usually happen after a few years.

Tommy, I almost had your same idea and head back to a Japanese brand as they have always served me more reliably. But I can't take the hit in dollars plus I am quite fond of the quietness and materials used in the inside of the Golf. Definitely a plus in a 35k car not found in Japanese cars.

I will however be looking to trade mine in probably close to the end of its warranty :)

[Tommy]

Howdy Twotribesz

Sorry to hear about your car. How did you manage to get a new car out of your dealer? This was my third Golf and they wouldn't even answer an email.

Osborne Park Volkswagen, you suck!

I bought a Mazda and I tell you it doesn't make any unwelcome noises at all. Its as tight as a drum! The cabin is also very quite, and dare I say it, its quieter than the Golf! Maybe that's because it doesn't have a clunking gearbox, exhaust pipe falling off, rattling heat shield and a water pump and supercharger which is designed to chirp and belch every time you drive the car.

They replaced the DSG in my car and I believe it cost around $14 000. The new one was failing too in the last few days I had the car . It decided it liked to slip into neutral as you were reversing or moving forward. Thankfully it didn't happen on the freeway!! Not to mention the hassles I had with the brakes and ticking window frames.... This car totally missed quality control...

My 118TSI was a complete and utter disaster. I will never touch a VW again. And I'm very pleased to say that I am certian I've talked more than a few people out of buying one and I'll keep on working at that after the way I was treated by VW.

Anyhow, good luck with your car.

[POLARBEAR666]

Howdy Twotribesz

Sorry to hear about your car. How did you manage to get a new car out of your dealer? This was my third Golf and they wouldn't even answer an email.

Osborne Park Volkswagen, you suck!

I bought a Mazda and I tell you it doesn't make any unwelcome noises at all. Its as tight as a drum! The cabin is also very quite, and dare I say it, its quieter than the Golf! Maybe that's because it doesn't have a clunking gearbox, exhaust pipe falling off, rattling heat shield and a water pump and supercharger which is designed to chirp and belch every time you drive the car.

They replaced the DSG in my car and I believe it cost around $14 000. The new one was failing too in the last few days I had the car . It decided it liked to slip into neutral as you were reversing or moving forward. Thankfully it didn't happen on the freeway!! Not to mention the hassles I had with the brakes and ticking window frames.... This car totally missed quality control...

My 118TSI was a complete and utter disaster. I will never touch a VW again. And I'm very pleased to say that I am certian I've talked more than a few people out of buying one and I'll keep on working at that after the way I was treated by VW.

Anyhow, good luck with your car.

I think you guys are being a little hard on VW... the gearbox is CUTTING EDGE TECH... of course its not going to be as reliable as a bog stock 6 speed or a simple slushbox. The japs have only just started selling cars with similar gearboxes.

Secondly, if you get a car that is a bit of a lemon it is likely that it will have multiple problems. The systems are all connected and who knows what happened on that day. Maybe the machine that screws a certain type of bolt in was not working to spec and so 20 bolts are a little loose on the key mechanical bits causing failures.

I have seen people have engines and gearbox's pop left and right on some jap cars while others dished out endless abuse and nothing broke.

If you want cutting edge tech stick with german drivetrains.

Most jap cars just have powerful engines because they just have bigger turbo ratios and more capacity than VW motors, they are not that smart technically and they usually whack a simple manual behind the powerful ones. Only now are the EVO's and GTR's catching up to VW Tech.

[cme2c]

Hello Guys,

Snip
But with that said, BMWs and Mercs also have problems but probably not to this level in a brand new car, they usually happen after a few years.

Tommy, I almost had your same idea and head back to a Japanese brand as they have always served me more reliably. But I can't take the hit in dollars plus I am quite fond of the quietness and materials used in the inside of the Golf. Definitely a plus in a 35k car not found in Japanese cars.

I will however be looking to trade mine in probably close to the end of its warranty :)

Mate of mine has a Mercedes C280. The seven speed auto leaked its expensive fluid on his garage floor. This $100k car did this after 2 months. Now, Merc fixed it first time but....
Point is, cars are put together by human beings. I have had Euro, Jap and Aus cars. Most reliable? Hondas, Toyotas, RWD Volvos ( I am old..) Most trouble, an Austin and a Peugeot. OTOH, i have another Peugeot that is fine. What counts is the support from dealer, importer and manufacturer.

[MaccaTSI]

Only now are the EVO's and GTR's catching up to VW Tech.

So true, Germans are so far ahead and don't think you'll be better off with one of those $140k GTRs. After they came out there were heaps of stories about guys having to get their gearboxes replaced because they used launch control too often and Nissan wouldn't cover it under warranty, because they used launch control.

Example of a dude's story here:

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25361

My dad had a 350z manual, great car but it had little annoying rattles in the cabin that the dealer couldn't identify. I remember going on the Z forums and seeing all sorts of complaints from owners having different problems, just the same way people post their issues here. Dad's had the stereo replaced because it stopped reading CDs properly, would just start skipping. After it was replaced, radio reception was bloody average.

Ended up getting rid of the car after 3 years, because in the last 6 months or so, he had to have the clutch replaced 3 times. He wasn't the only person with this problem, he spoke to a guy at a servo who pulled up in another Z who had had his car less than a year and his and also been replaced. After looking into it on the net, found it wasn't an uncommon issue.

Traded the car for a Merc SLK350 2 years ago and hasn't had the slightest issue and the dealer service is FANTASTIC.

I know these cars a bit more expensive than a Golf, but when the top of the line Nissan (GTR wasn't out at the time) has problems, you can't say that Japanese cars are going to be a problem free experience.

[ox518]

Wow, this thread seems like a VW quality control complaints.

I have rattle noise problem from the second week ownership, and after two times repair，I still can slightly hear it on the rough road. Therefore I just give up and I am going to send it to a Syd dealer when the first service comes up.

Anyway, what I am going to say is, none of the car is perfect. Especially on a $35k car which has even better tech and build quality than $50k car. I always believe that you pay for what you got.

Lemons in every brand.

[Paul_OH]

I'm am wondering though how this has become such a big issue? It seems to me (and my GT TSI has done it since new) that it is a byproduct of the correct functioning of the engine. If you think about it, you have a crankshaft spinning at anywhere upto 3000rpm and when your foot demands power - the magnetic clutch has to engage a supercharger which takes a 'LOT' of startup intertia from a standstill to engine speed in a split second!

If this is ever fixed to the satisfaction of all users I'll be very surprised

A Mazda 6 (used as an example as others have already compared them) won't do it because they've got a relatively low tech 2.5NA engine. The TDIs won't do it because they're turbo only.

At the end of the day you're buying a premium (not prestige) Euro brand w/ cutting edge technology for Jap car prices and wondering why everything isn't perfect? We had a previous model Mazda6 and looked at the new model. After driving the Golf the Mazda wasn't even in the same class - although you get a lot of car for the money with the Mazda.
The fit, finish, handling, solidity and sporting tone of the Golf was in our mind a much smarter buy than the cruisy comfort of the Mazda.

[ox518]

I'm am wondering though how this has become such a big issue? It seems to me (and my GT TSI has done it since new) that it is a byproduct of the correct functioning of the engine. If you think about it, you have a crankshaft spinning at anywhere upto 3000rpm and when your foot demands power - the magnetic clutch has to engage a supercharger which takes a 'LOT' of startup intertia from a standstill to engine speed in a split second!

If this is ever fixed to the satisfaction of all users I'll be very surprised

A Mazda 6 (used as an example as others have already compared them) won't do it because they've got a relatively low tech 2.5NA engine. The TDIs won't do it because they're turbo only.

At the end of the day you're buying a premium (not prestige) Euro brand w/ cutting edge technology for Jap car prices and wondering why everything isn't perfect? We had a previous model Mazda6 and looked at the new model. After driving the Golf the Mazda wasn't even in the same class - although you get a lot of car for the money with the Mazda.
The fit, finish, handling, solidity and sporting tone of the Golf was in our mind a much smarter buy than the cruisy comfort of the Mazda.

Agree....I think people just expect too much on this "world car of the year".....

[MorganTSI118]

I agree with the last few posts. I am only 22 and my first car was a brand new polo! I loved that car - it had no power whatsoever but it was nice to drive and I wouldn't have opted for anything else. Since then I traded it in for my Golf. I loooove my car!! Squeals and all! I also get the ticking in the window but have found that to be after my car has been sitting in the heat so it must have something to do with expanding or something.

My sisters have had Mazdas and Holdens and both now have golfs. My parents have had holdens, fords, nissans, subarus, toyotas.. not sure about anything else and now they both have volkswagens. From all the experiences they have had with different manufacturers they still prefer the quality of a volkswagen. They have said they will never touch another Holden, Ford is OK, Subaru's are too hard on fuel and well toyota is just boring! My dad has had a lot of problems with one of the golfs he has bought but still loves taking my car for a drive. The engine is fanstatic, the safety is amazing, its soo quiet.. but basically...you wont see me in a jap car. I will opt for other EUROS over buying anything Japanese or Australian lol.

Also my partner who has a MAZDA 3 will prefer to drive my car everywhere and would love to buy a JETTA for his next car.

I agree that you get lemons with any make of car but you stick to what you love and perhaps dont deal witht he same dealership (which is exactly what my dad is doing abut his one faulty golf - he is no longer going there for services either).

Oh well, each to their own!!

[cktsi]

If this is ever fixed to the satisfaction of all users I'll be very surprised


Be prepared for a surprise then. VW have a database of all customers with the issue & will contact them when the fix is ready. They are currently working on new supercharger plates that will not squeal when engaged.

[Schnapp]

My car seems to have developed this chirp @ 2740km. Its quite audible even when inside the car and all windows closed.

It happens when the supercharger engages. As when I wind my window down, and listen to the engine while driving, you hear the ~0.5-1 sec CHIIRRPP then you here the supercharger kickin straight after. So everytime I let go of the accelerator, the supercharger disengages, and then I give a little on the accelerator, the supercharger engages resulting in a quite audible chirp. I can replicated at will.

Anyone have any updates on when this will be fixed? And will dealers know about this problem. It is rather annoying as sometimes i drive with no radio etc...and to just hear the sharp chirp noise in an otherwise quiet cabin is very annoying.

[soogs]

Check this link http://www.caradvice.com.au/23897/2009-volkswagen-golf-vi-first-steer-review/

at the bottom of the page under comments the bloke Horst Flugel seems to know what he's talking about.

[Schnapp]

Check this link http://www.caradvice.com.au/23897/2009-volkswagen-golf-vi-first-steer-review/

at the bottom of the page under comments the bloke Horst Flugel seems to know what he's talking about.

Thanks very much soogs!

I see there is a date of Nov 2009 being thrown around for a newly designed waterpump. They will replace the waterpump with the newly designed one for those experiencing the problem under warranty.

Looks like I'll have to put up with the chirp till end of the year...

If anyone has any updates be sure to post here!

[petergsydney]

I'm am wondering though how this has become such a big issue? It seems to me (and my GT TSI has done it since new) that it is a byproduct of the correct functioning of the engine.

I can understand that with an engine so quiet, this noise can be irritating. However, I've actually been relieved to find that there has been no other widely reported issue with the new TSI engine. I've done 6000k with mine and am very happy with it. After reading this thread, I listened and yes, I do have this magnetic clutch squeal. But also after reading this thread I realised that the sound didn't indicate a problem.

I'll be interested to see when or if VW come up with a solution to this little quirk, but won't be upset if they don't.

[thamwk]

actually, my new Golf 118TSI just developed this squeak. developed it when I drove up and back from Canberra over the weekend and the car has only done 1,500km. no big issue, and will wait for VW to release the fix for this.

meanwhile, am enjoying the car :)

[logger]

My car seems to have developed this chirp @ 2740km. Its quite audible even when inside the car and all windows closed. Seems like a case of WHEN not IF and yours appears pretty close to the money.
"The noise usually occurs only after a mileage of 3000 kilometers or more."
As I am around the 2,000k mark will keep my ears open with a view to getting the issue noted for future warranty repair WHEN/IF it appears on mine.

[soogs]

Hey guys, check this out http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/301300.aspx

[thamwk]

nice find soogs! though not sure how long before this fix propagates to Australia...

[Schnapp]

Thanks for that soogs!

It says week45 builds get new waterpump.

How do i find out what week my car is built?

[thamwk]

If I have read correctly, this is week 45 of 2009 and if this is the case, then you should be covered because we are only currently in week 40 of 2009 :)

[Tommy]

I reckon they probably mean week 45 of 2008....

I wonder how many waterpumps and superchargers they'll have to replace worldwide....??

must be big numbers....

[Umai Naa!!]

FYI, whatever fix VW comes up with usually takes AT LEAST 2 months to filter through to Australia. Please be patient and remain positive that VW will come up with a solution to the problem. We've only had two cars do it, and both customers have accepted the fact that there isn't a fix for the problem right now, and will be called in as soon as we have something.

Besides, I think they have enough on their plate right now with the Touareg rear spoiler mount issues...

[logger]

..I wonder how many waterpumps and superchargers they'll have to replace worldwide....??
What makes you say the superchargers will need replacing? Is it not just the magnetic clutch on the the waterpump that is the culprit? The Superchargers should be fine or am I missing something?

[thamwk]

my squeak is more prominent now showing up everytime i drive. not that it's driving me up the wall :)

[Golf Mark 6]

My Golf has just started squeaking too... 2000 km on the clock. Have contacted dealership and am going in for them to have a listen tomorrow.

Seeing as it's a known problem I hope that they actually know about it and don't try to tell me it's a "feature" or they'll end up with an agro Latino causing a scene at the dealership...

[coastie]

FYI, whatever fix VW comes up with usually takes AT LEAST 2 months to filter through to Australia. Please be patient and remain positive that VW will come up with a solution to the problem. We've only had two cars do it, and both customers have accepted the fact that there isn't a fix for the problem right now, and will be called in as soon as we have something.

Besides, I think they have enough on their plate right now with the Touareg rear spoiler mount issues...

So I gather from this response you work at VW. This problem has been on their records for nearly 6 months and there has been no official response from VW. Not even an update. There are far more cars in Australia than two doing this at the moment. Many have complained to VW Tech, their dealership and have mostly received the same evasive response, it's a feature of this vehicle or a known occurrence.

When the noise occurs it indicates slippage between the friction materials on the clutch. This indicates increased wear thus leading onto a component wearing out early. None of this has been addressed by any correspondence I have received from VW.

This is the issue that needs to be addressed, not just a wait and see if the noise goes away or the customer gets sick of waiting.

Please enlighten your VW employers so that we don't continually get the poor responses of a generic I don't know. Rant over.

[Tommy]

My Golf has just started squeaking too... 2000 km on the clock. Have contacted dealership and am going in for them to have a listen tomorrow.

Seeing as it's a known problem I hope that they actually know about it and don't try to tell me it's a "feature" or they'll end up with an agro Latino causing a scene at the dealership...

Hey There

Do you mind saying which dealership you'll be visiting? I had no luck with the two inner city dealerships in Perth... They will indeed tell you that its a known "characterisitic"!

[Golf Mark 6]

Hey There

Do you mind saying which dealership you'll be visiting? I had no luck with the two inner city dealerships in Perth... They will indeed tell you that its a known "characterisitic"!

No problem at all Tommy, I'm going in to VW Osborne Park, If that's the answer they're going to give me I won't be happy.

[Umai Naa!!]

So I gather from this response you work at VW. This problem has been on their records for nearly 6 months and there has been no official response from VW. Not even an update. There are far more cars in Australia than two doing this at the moment. Many have complained to VW Tech, their dealership and have mostly received the same evasive response, it's a feature of this vehicle or a known occurrence.

When the noise occurs it indicates slippage between the friction materials on the clutch. This indicates increased wear thus leading onto a component wearing out early. None of this has been addressed by any correspondence I have received from VW.

This is the issue that needs to be addressed, not just a wait and see if the noise goes away or the customer gets sick of waiting.

Please enlighten your VW employers so that we don't continually get the poor responses of a generic I don't know. Rant over.

If previous experiences are anything to go by, nobody outside of VW in Germany will have any idea where they're at with this situation. I personally, am confident there is a fix on the way, which will hopefully address the noise, and any premature component wear.

[Tommy]

No problem at all Tommy, I'm going in to VW Osborne Park, If that's the answer they're going to give me I won't be happy.

Hi There

Yep, went there and they will definitely tell you its normal. They told me the same was true with a few other issues and the other dealership ended up doing $30 000 worth of repairs to a 3 month old car. At least they tried to help. VW O'Park wouldn't do anything at all....

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

[cktsi]

btw... I think if you have the squeak, be happy with it. It's the lesser of two evils.

atm I think my unburnt fuel issue is due to the magnetic clutch not engaging properly (http://http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=34445&page=2)& taking it's time to overcome the springs that disconnect the clutch. I think that's a more disconcerting issue than a mild squeak that you only hear under moderate acceleration without the radio.

I'm starting to hear less squeak, but experiencing more of the unburnt fuel plume... so that's why I think it's better to have all squeak and zero other supercharger clutch related problems.

Either way, I hope that the new magnetic clutch will fix both my problems.

[kingwang]

tbh i think its pretty cool to have this sound. it makes it feel like its super powerful with the supercharger kicking in to power the car.

I take it as a positive and think its normal.
If u hear a normal supercharger working, it is a squeal coming from the engine

[Tommy]

tbh i think its pretty cool to have this sound. it makes it feel like its super powerful with the supercharger kicking in to power the car.

I take it as a positive and think its normal.
If u hear a normal supercharger working, it is a squeal coming from the engine

You would be one of very few people who thinks its acceptable... And try convincing a car dealership that its normal if you ever try and trade it in like i did with mine... its a horrible noise and VW knows they have a big problem on their hands.

[kingwang]

You would be one of very few people who thinks its acceptable... And try convincing a car dealership that its normal if you ever try and trade it in like i did with mine... its a horrible noise and VW knows they have a big problem on their hands.

I think you may have misunderstood me
There seems to be two different sounds being discussed here
One that happens quietly and the other one that is annoying squeal like a bird (short and sharp)
Im talking about the whine that u get from a normal supercharger.

[Golf Mark 6]

Well I went to the dealership and drove around the block with one of the service guys. He pretty much confirmed what we already know - that it's the magnetic clutch on the water pump.

I asked him if it could cause any damage to the components around it and he responded with a no, it was just a known sound from a TSI engine.

Previously VW had told them to change over the water pump, and this solved the issue for a few weeks but then the sound came back. At the moment VW has told dealerships to leave it, but he believes that a solution to the sound could be coming soon from Germany.

Personally, I'm happy that the dealership at least knows the reason for the sound. Given the age of the car, I'm pretty confident my warranty will cover the change-over on the new clutch when it eventually gets here. Don't want to attempt any change if VW has advised against it.

[logger]

...I think my unburnt fuel issue is due to the magnetic clutch not engaging properly & taking it's time to overcome the springs that disconnect the clutch.
I would have thought the clutch would $h1t itself pretty quickly if it slipped for several seconds every time it was engaged. If it really is doing that, you might be in need of a new magnetic clutch sooner than you think. Even if this is what is happening, as there are two intake pressure sensors at separate points downstream of the supercharger wouldn't the correct amount of fuel be scheduled for the achieved pressure in any case? Or is fuel metered to scheduled press as against achieved pressure? Perhaps the cause is totally unrelated to the supercharger and its magnetic clutch.

[Tommy]

I would have thought the clutch would $h1t itself pretty quickly if it slipped for several seconds every time it was engaged. If it really is doing that, you might be in need of a new magnetic clutch sooner than you think. Even if this is what is happening, as there are two intake pressure sensors at separate points downstream of the supercharger wouldn't the correct amount of fuel be scheduled for the achieved pressure in any case? Or is fuel metered to scheduled press as against achieved pressure? Perhaps the cause is totally unrelated to the supercharger and its magnetic clutch.

Howdy

yep, that's what i reckon too. if you've got metal parts making noises like that, there's got to be wear and tear...and what other damage is being done?

sounds like you're a big rig driver... kenworth?

[VW Convert]

Howdy

yep, that's what i reckon too. if you've got metal parts making noises like that, there's got to be wear and tear...and what other damage is being done?

sounds like you're a big rig driver... kenworth?

81,000KW 1,000 L/100km, can't be a truck, it's something much bigger, a boat or an aircraft?

I think this issue is being handled badly by VW in terms of communication but I'm equally certain they are working on and will come up with a solution which will end up with a recall at some stage in the near future. It is likely that they have a policy of saying nothing until a solution is found for legal reasons and dealers are not in a position to make commitments on behalf of the manufacturer.

Part of my job is administration of warranty claims to a major company that manufactures cars, trucks and materials handling equipment amongst other things. From experience I can say that it takes time to identify the nature and scope of the problem, develop and most importantly test a solution, manufacture the parts required, distribute the parts worldwide and contact each individual owner to arrange rectification. Patience is the key here, VW won't walk away from its obligations, they can't afford to and the law won't allow them to.

Cheers

George

[Tommy]

Freight train?

[cktsi]

I would have thought the clutch would $h1t itself pretty quickly if it slipped for several seconds every time it was engaged. If it really is doing that, you might be in need of a new magnetic clutch sooner than you think. Even if this is what is happening, as there are two intake pressure sensors at separate points downstream of the supercharger wouldn't the correct amount of fuel be scheduled for the achieved pressure in any case? Or is fuel metered to scheduled press as against achieved pressure? Perhaps the cause is totally unrelated to the supercharger and its magnetic clutch.

It's not happening all the time... still only around 2% of the time (though it hasn't occurred for 2 weeks now fingers crossed). All I know is 3 weeks ago it happened 3 times in 1 week and the squeak is getting slightly fainter... so I was wondering if there is a correlation.

It's possible the unburnt fuel is unrelated to the magnetic supercharger clutch. I don't know the mechanical setup of the exhaust & how it interacts with the fuel injection - so you could be correct that it's still an unrelated issue. I just made the connection based on my on suspicion + polarbear's internet find.

I thought it may be the supercharger as everything else is mechnically fine. The only way I could rationalise it is that there's lots of unburnt fuel which suggests that there isn't enough air in the mixture i.e. when the engine is under load, the fuel injector is responding with more fuel, but the supercharger isn't forcing in the corresponding amount of air... upshot is I still get acceleration, but lots of unburnt fuel spewing out back.

Like you, I thought it could be something else. I enquired about whether a sensor may be faulty, but the head mechanic said that the sensors were all fine. In the end, we're all really in the dark about the root cause.

[logger]

...sounds like you're a big rig driver... kenworth?

81,000KW 1,000 L/100km, can't be a truck, it's something much bigger, a boat or an aircraft?
Yeah VW Convert you're on the money.


It's not happening all the time...
..It's possible the unburnt fuel is unrelated to the magnetic supercharger clutch. ...
I thought it may be the supercharger as everything else is mechnically fine...... upshot is I still get acceleration, but lots of unburnt fuel spewing out back.... In the end, we're all really in the dark about the root cause.
Lets hope they find a fix for you soon. Tried to hobble my Supercharger clutch today to see if I could create a plume - but no luck. Temporarily disabled my Aux Coolant Pump instead. woops. :eek:

[cktsi]

Temporarily disabled my Aux Coolant Pump instead. woops. :eek:

Woah... are you saying you are using Vagcom to change certain configuration to try to replicate the issue? Wow.. that sounds very high tech & impressive. How do you know what to manipulate & what the values are?

[logger]

Nah nothing as clever as that. Just using Vag-Com to verify I had disabled the correct sensor by physically disconnecting it, which it told me I had not. Was after G582 which is a current sensor. BTW I did get a bit of a plume out the back this arvo, but it was only cos I was giving it too much of a bootful when it was still cold and had only been running for about a minute....

[cktsi]

Nah nothing as clever as that. Just using Vag-Com to verify I had disabled the correct sensor by physically disconnecting it, which it told me I had not. Was after G582 which is a current sensor. BTW I did get a bit of a plume out the back this arvo, but it was only cos I was giving it too much of a bootful when it was still cold and had only been running for about a minute....

So if you have a Vag-com (or access to one), have you tried other "hidden" settings? I read the thread in the Mk5 forum about the rain sensor being able to close windows & sunroof when it detects water (provided the wiper stalk is in the rain sensor mode position). Ever tried something like that one?

[logger]

So if you have a Vag-com (or access to one), have you tried other "hidden" settings? I read the thread in the Mk5 forum about the rain sensor being able to close windows & sunroof when it detects water (provided the wiper stalk is in the rain sensor mode position). Ever tried something like that one?
Yep, I have seen that "rain close" option in the controller coding but it does not appeal to me so I have not activated it. (My guess is it is off by default in AUS for fear of cooking a child in a car in the tropics.) I changed some trivial stuff like the number of lane change courtesy flashes from 3 to 5. I am interested in the Distance Impulse number to tweak/correct the speedo but need to research it more first. Could be wrong but I gather correcting the speedo places and error in the ODO so it is not a good outcome. Anyway as you or someone else mentioned, 106 = 100kph. Yes there is a heap of stuff in there to tweak but one has to tread carefully. Main draw back I see with Vag-Com & our cars at the moment is poor support for the TSI118 Engine and DSG7 and ABS controllers. This will no doubt improve in time though. The other more common controllers like the instrument panel is well supported.

[coastie]

I was reading in those service pdfs logger recommended (ssp359) about the 118 twincharger and on page 50 it mentions that the supercharger will not work if the magnetic clutch fails.

I wonder if this has something to do with the plume of fuel. If the air is not compressed to the level that the fuel is supplied then an incomplete combustion and the excess heading out the tailpipe. Just speculating a bit.

[v.w.dave]

Hey guys,
That noise is the small belt that drives the supercharger getting up to speed or slowing down.
I am probably going over things that some of you already know.
That belt is driven buy the water pump that has a clutch that is in close relations to the clutch on your older style A/C compressure. The differance is it is opperated by P.W.M. (pulse width modulation) What that does is brings the super charger up to speed without julting it harshly and the same with dissingaging it.
EVERY twin charge has this noise and will always have this noise. Some are a little quieter then others but they will all sound the same after about 50000k

[Tommy]

Interestingly, I followed a brand new 118TSI down the freeway on Saturday as it belched black smoke under acceleration and squirted out a large amount of fluid out of both exhaust pipes. This does not look normal at all, nor does it look very 'appealing'... Should a brand new petrol car be doign this sort of thing?

[Guest]

I was reading in those service pdfs logger recommended (ssp359) about the 118 twincharger and on page 50 it mentions that the supercharger will not work if the magnetic clutch fails.

I wonder if this has something to do with the plume of fuel. If the air is not compressed to the level that the fuel is supplied then an incomplete combustion and the excess heading out the tailpipe. Just speculating a bit.Europe has the world best emission standard period! This car actually meets Euro 6 recommendations but its not out yet. If there was an emission problem with unburnt fuel for example then an engine light would 100% be lit up on your dash insert and DTC's would occur in your engine fault memory sayin there is such an issue

[Guest]

Interestingly, I followed a brand new 118TSI down the freeway on Saturday as it belched black smoke under acceleration and squirted out a large amount of fluid out of both exhaust pipes. This does not look normal at all, nor does it look very 'appealing'... Should a brand new petrol car be doign this sort of thing?
water is actually a byproduct of combustion after going through that cat co0nverter you probably seen that coming out of exhaust.

[v.w.dave]

I was reading in those service pdfs logger recommended (ssp359) about the 118 twincharger and on page 50 it mentions that the supercharger will not work if the magnetic clutch fails.

I wonder if this has something to do with the plume of fuel. If the air is not compressed to the level that the fuel is supplied then an incomplete combustion and the excess heading out the tailpipe. Just speculating a bit.

The clutch has a fail safe on it that if the supercharger fails or the clutch is not getting the P.W.M. (signal from the ecu) It has a return spring on it like a starter motor. this insures that if the supercharger fails it will not harm the motor and the same vise versa. It is a fail safe. It is a form of LIMP mode. If this happens the turbo will still work as if the supercharger was never there.
And the check engine light will come on.

[logger]

Hey Dave, I realise you guys would have the proper VW VAG diagnostics machine so I am not sure if it gives you this info....but you wouldn't happen to know which VAG measuring Block the PWM signal gets sent to would you?

I can see the G583 sensor S/Charger pressure at Block 241,1 and was hoping to find the PWM signal in that region as well. Just that I would like to see how it behaves in VAG-COM. Observe the delay between Supercharge clutch commanded on and pressure increase in the manifold and so on.

Thnx.

[v.w.dave]

To be honest with you the vag com has more info on what all the MVB are. As dealer you are only given usefull information. The PWM is changed so quickly the scan too l will not pick up on it. If an when there is a problem we use the DSO scope to messure the PWM. Not a MVB. If you email Ross-Tech they would be able to tell you the MVB that tells you when it is and or isnt ingaged.

[logger]

To be honest with you the vag com has more info on what all the MVB are. As dealer you are only given usefull information. The PWM is changed so quickly the scan too l will not pick up on it. If an when there is a problem we use the DSO scope to messure the PWM. Not a MVB. If you email Ross-Tech they would be able to tell you the MVB that tells you when it is and or isnt ingaged.
Fair enough. You don't have the time to be stuffing around with the trivia when you have things that need fixing and established methods to do so, that work.
I have been doing some research and there is a certain amount missing from the Ross-Tech label files and what they know of the twincharger. But with a little bit of strategic fiddling I have managed to identify a couple blocks that are useful but were previously unknown to them. So far I have found G583 which is supercharger OUT manifold pressure and today I am fairly certain I found G584 which is the regulating flap position. Controlling Air into the supercharger. Its noisy little bugger by the way. Have not found the PWM yet, but will keep looking.

[pologti18t]

Interestingly, I followed a brand new 118TSI down the freeway on Saturday as it belched black smoke under acceleration and squirted out a large amount of fluid out of both exhaust pipes. This does not look normal at all, nor does it look very 'appealing'... Should a brand new petrol car be doign this sort of thing?

Most turbo cars produce a plume of dark exhaust when given full throttle. The ecu runs the mixture rich to prevent detonation etc.

[roy]

The problem (squeal noise) hasn't been fixed yet, right?

[Stoney!]

My car hit 2500k's over night, and today I noticed the supercharger became a lot louder now, never used to be audiable from inside the car, only in car parks with the windows open lol.

I also noticed the aqueek noise from the S/C clutch today for the first time, could these two thing be part of the one thing?

Could they possibly be a little cut back for the first 2500k's and then after it spins harder, which makes the clutch engage more audiable also?

just a thought....

Stoney!

[v.w.dave]

Fair enough. You don't have the time to be stuffing around with the trivia when you have things that need fixing and established methods to do so, that work.
I have been doing some research and there is a certain amount missing from the Ross-Tech label files and what they know of the twincharger. But with a little bit of strategic fiddling I have managed to identify a couple blocks that are useful but were previously unknown to them. So far I have found G583 which is supercharger OUT manifold pressure and today I am fairly certain I found G584 which is the regulating flap position. Controlling Air into the supercharger. Its noisy little bugger by the way. Have not found the PWM yet, but will keep looking.

Have you looked at MVB 00 that is the running numbers that the ECU see's. It does most of its calculations based on the those numbers. Those numbers are a direct feed from different sensors on the motor. I would almost bet you would see one of those change as the PWM was changed. I am not sure as to how long the delay would be from when it happend to when it would show up on there though. MVB 00 is how we can see if the fault memmory has been changed in the few days before a car come in with a problem. When the fault memmory is cleared I think 7 or those numbers will reset to 128 untill all of the basic settings have all been set (The Readiness code of the car).
Just something you could look at.

[Paul_OH]

FYI, my MkV TSI has just hit 32K and I haven't noticed this chirp for a long time, probably the last 3 months or so (approx 4000km).
As stated previously it never really bothered me so didn't realise for a long time that the noise wasn't present.
Nothing else other than the fact that it may not be a permanent "feature" :crazy2:

[logger]

Have you looked at MVB 00 that is the running numbers that the ECU see's. It does most of its calculations based on the those numbers. Those numbers are a direct feed from different sensors on the motor. I would almost bet you would see one of those change as the PWM was changed. I am not sure as to how long the delay would be from when it happend to when it would show up on there though. MVB 00 is how we can see if the fault memmory has been changed in the few days before a car come in with a problem. When the fault memmory is cleared I think 7 or those numbers will reset to 128 untill all of the basic settings have all been set (The Readiness code of the car).
Just something you could look at.
I don't think I can get MVB 00 with VagCom, if by that you mean measuring block 00 as in zero. VAGCom has measuring block 001 through 253 with four fields in each. But perhaps your 00 is the same as my 001 field 4 or 001,4 which seems to contain Basic Setting requirments as a binary number. I can see from my old logs already that this changes when I disconnected the Regulating Flap control Unit. So will take a close look to see if it also changes with PWM. Thanks for the suggestion.

[logger]

Eureka - I have finally worked out how to do it. I can now see the supercharger magnetic clutch in VAGCOM. :banana:
So I can now log the magnetic clutch, the pressure regulating flap and the supercharger output pressure along with lots of other stuff. None of this is documented by Ross-Tech for the MK5 BLG or MK6 CAV twinchargers. So I have got me a pretty unique label file for these engines now. I will add this to my comprehensive DSG7 label file, and I will be set. I have also found two simple methods of disabling the SCharger. Drives a bit different when there is no boost until 3000rpm. Bit like a GTI I expect :P
Standby for some CSVs showing what is really going on with the supercharger.

[MaccaTSI]

Awesome work Logger!!

Can't wait to see the results

:D

[cktsi]

Thats amazing that you worked out how to disable the scharger.

So does this mean the control flap is still closed when u disable the scharger till the rpm where it starts to handover to the turbo (around 2500rpm according to the vw site)? Can you also control when the flap opens?

I also look forward to the updated spreadsheet.

An update for those worried about the squeak i now only get it under hard acceleration so it dissipates with time. However i will go with the fix in case it solves my other issue

[coastie]

Nice work, can you post up the vagcom blocks you are measuring as well as the csv file. It will be interesting to try on mine as the sound if still there at the 15000 service they asked about it and they gave an update from VW who are still seeking a solution. Lots of if's but's and maybe's but no definitive answer to when it will be fixed.

[MurphyTheElf]

I have also found two simple methods of disabling the SCharger. Drives a bit different when there is no boost until 3000rpm. Bit like a GTI I expect :P

Yes, a 1.4 litre GTI. :rolleyes:

[logger]

Thats amazing that you worked out how to disable the scharger.

So does this mean the control flap is still closed when u disable the scharger till the rpm where it starts to handover to the turbo (around 2500rpm according to the vw site)? No - Would seem it that it is a pre requisite for the mag clutch to be engaged for the flap to close. So when it is disabled, no clutch and therefore no flap action.

Can you also control when the flap opens?
Not exactly - But I can disable it too.


I also look forward to the updated spreadsheet.

An update for those worried about the squeak i now only get it under hard acceleration so it dissipates with time. However i will go with the fix in case it solves my other issue I sometimes get the chirp too. I was only able to identify it after downloading a sound recording of it from erwin. To me it is a non event, however I appreciate how it could bug others.


Nice work, can you post up the vagcom blocks you are measuring as well as the csv file. Sorry - Nope not yet. Bit much time and effort has gone into finding them. Want to chat with the Ross-Tech guys first but will prolly make the whole label file avail soonish.
It will be interesting to try on mine as the sound if still there at the 15000 service they asked about it and they gave an update from VW who are still seeking a solution. Lots of if's but's and maybe's but no definitive answer to when it will be fixed. Yeah I would not be holding your breath on a fix anytime soon.


Anyway here is the XLS log. Again, like some of the other stuff I have posted, it highlights how briefly the SCharger actually runs for. Typically the Magnetic Clutch is engaged for 2 or 3 seconds at a time. Three minute drive at varied speeds, I think it runs about Ten times. Also records the torque commands from the gearbox as it often intervenes. Unfortunately the sample rate is ~ 1/sec. A trade off between sample rate and logged blocks.

Enjoy...

Charger Log (http://www.nimblefeet.com/QF/Charger%20Log.xls)

[coastie]

Thanks for the spreadsheet. Interesting data and I like the comment notes it helps explain a lot more. I hope the Ross Tech staff reward your effort and IP.

[nicandlance]

Wow, they really are trying to walk allover you, I really despise this ( walking all over the little man) because i'm quite spitefull when it comes to things like this, i would do the lemon thing, especially on a Saturday, there busiest day. When they see potential customers looking at your car reading the list of problems then driving away......... bottom line pain for the dealer principal.

I'm actually getting angry reading this. Ha!

I had really bad experiences with VW as well. My 2006 beetle had this annoying groan between gear changes and when I went accelerate. At first they treated me as though I was imagining it, until the noise progressively got louder and they couldn't ignore it. Went back to the dealer around 12 - 14 times within 6 months, came back 'fixed' about 4. Noise reoccured again. I wrote to VW demanding a new car too. No joy. I was angry, frustrated and bitterly disappointed that my beautiful new car could give me so much grief. Ended up the noise was a solenoid valve (or actually - something attached to it) 10 months down the track, finally fixed.
It is incredibly annoying to sit down and painstakingly research a car to make sure you've made the right choice, only to have ****ty niggly and frustrating things happen....

[logger]

Did another run this morning. 32 minutes drive around suburban Melbourne. Supercharger ran for total of 109 seconds or 6% of the time. From a cursory look the average engage time was still just on 2 seconds with the max period of around 3 seconds. XLS is ~ 8,000 lines and 0.5mb. If someone is good with Excel & feels so inclined....it would be good to to work out what the actual min, max and average clutch engaged periods were. along with the number of cycles.


138.6
138.72
138.83
138.94
139.05 engaged
139.19 engaged
139.3 engaged
139.41 engaged
139.53 engaged
139.64 engaged
139.77 engaged
139.9 engaged
140.01 engaged
140.12 engaged
140.23 engaged
140.36 engaged
140.47 engaged
140.58 engaged
140.7 engaged
140.81 engaged
140.96 engaged
141.07
141.19
141.31
141.42
141.54
141.65
141.76
141.88
142
142.14
142.26
142.37
142.48
142.59
142.71
142.82
142.93
143.04
143.15
143.28 engaged
143.4 engaged
143.51 engaged
143.62 engaged
143.73 engaged
143.85 engaged
143.96 engaged
144.07 engaged
144.18 engaged
144.29 engaged
144.41 engaged
144.52 engaged
144.63 engaged
144.74 engaged
144.85 engaged
144.98 engaged
145.1 engaged
145.21 engaged
145.32 engaged
145.43 engaged
145.55 engaged
145.66 engaged
145.77 engaged
145.89 engaged
146 engaged
146.14
146.25
146.36
146.47
146.58
146.71
146.82
146.95
147.07
147.19
147.32
147.44
147.55
147.66
147.77
147.9
148.02
148.13
148.24
148.36
148.49
148.61
148.73
148.84
148.97
149.1
149.22
149.33
149.44
149.55
149.69
149.8
149.92
150.03
150.14
150.27
150.39 engaged
150.5 engaged
150.61 engaged
150.72 engaged
150.86 engaged
150.97 engaged
151.09 engaged
151.2 engaged
151.31 engaged
151.44 engaged
151.56 engaged
151.67 engaged
151.78 engaged
151.89 engaged
152.03 engaged
152.14 engaged
152.26 engaged
152.37 engaged
152.48 engaged
152.61 engaged
152.73 engaged
152.84 engaged
152.95 engaged
153.06 engaged
153.2 engaged
153.32 engaged
153.43 engaged
153.54
153.65
153.78
153.9
154.01
154.12
154.23
154.35
154.46
154.57
154.68 engaged
154.79 engaged
154.91 engaged
155.02 engaged
155.13 engaged
155.24 engaged
155.35 engaged
155.48 engaged
155.6 engaged
155.71 engaged
155.82 engaged
155.93 engaged
156.05 engaged
156.16 engaged
156.27 engaged
156.38 engaged
156.49 engaged
156.61 engaged
156.72 engaged
156.83 engaged
156.94 engaged
157.05 engaged
157.18 engaged
157.31 engaged
157.42
157.53
157.64
157.77
157.88

[logger]

This one shows the Current regulation to the supercharger mag clutch at 0.1 sec intervals. Interesting how if can spike the Amps to 1.5 on engagement and then back off a fraction of a second later. Perhaps this is the PWM doing its thing to minimise engament jolt. Also it appears to regulate the Amps within a run cycle too. Significant point is that there is more to it that just ON or OFF.


Time Amps
167.55 0
167.67 0
167.78 0
167.89 0
168 0
168.12 0.44
168.23 0.52
168.34 0.48
168.45 0.56
168.56 0.56
168.69 2.72
168.82 2.72
168.93 2.72
169.04 2.72
169.15 2.72
169.28 2.72
169.39 2.72
169.5 2.72
169.63 2.72
169.74 2.72
169.88 2.72
170 2.72
170.12 2.72
170.23 2.72
170.34 2.72
170.46 2.72
170.57 2.72
170.68 2.72
170.79 2.72
170.9 2.72
171.03 2.72
171.15 2.72
171.26 2.7
171.37 0.74
171.48 0.54
171.6 0.26
171.71 0
171.82 0
171.93 0
172.04 0
172.16 1.52
172.27 0.7
172.38 0.48
172.49 0.52
172.6 0.56
172.73 2.52
172.85 2.7
172.96 2.7
173.07 2.7
173.18 2.7
173.3 2.7
173.41 2.7
173.53 2.7
173.65 2.7
173.78 2.7
173.91 2.7
174.02 2.7
174.13 2.7
174.24 0.6
174.35 0.5
174.47 1.52
174.58 2.7
174.69 2.7
174.8 2.7
174.91 2.7
175.04 2.7
175.16 2.7
175.28 2.7
175.39 2.7
175.5 2.7
175.63 2.7
175.74 2.7
175.87 2.7
175.99 2.7
176.13 2.7
176.24 2.7
176.36 2.72
176.47 2.7
176.58 2.7
176.71 2.7
176.83 2.7
176.94 2.7
177.05 2.7
177.16 2.7
177.3 2.7
177.41 2.7
177.53 1.24
177.64 0.56
177.75 0.5
177.88 0.08
178 0
178.11 0
178.22 0
178.33 0
178.47 0
178.58 0
178.7 0.44
178.82 0.62
178.93 0.5
179.06 0.58
179.17 1.16
179.28 2.7
179.39 2.7
179.51 2.7
179.64 2.7
179.75 2.7
179.87 2.7
180 2.7
180.12 2.7
180.25 2.7
180.37 2.7
180.48 2.7
180.59 2.7
180.7 1.24
180.82 0.56
180.93 0.5
181.04 0.08
181.15 0
181.26 0
181.38 0
181.49 0
181.6 0
181.71 0.7
181.83 0.48
181.96 0.5
182.07 0.5
182.18 0.54
182.29 2.66
182.4 2.7
182.52 2.7
182.63 2.7
182.74 2.7
182.85 2.7
182.96 2.7
183.09 2.7
183.21 2.7
183.32 2.7
183.43 2.7
183.54 2.7
183.67 2.7
183.79 2.7
183.92 2.68
184.04 2.7
184.18 2.7
184.3 2.68
184.41 2.7
184.52 2.7
184.63 2.68
184.75 2.7
184.86 2.7
184.97 2.7
185.08 1.08
185.19 0.58
185.32 0.54
185.44 0.06
185.55 0
185.66 0
185.77 0
185.9 0
186.02 0
186.13 0

[LiFers]

XLS is ~ 8,000 lines and 0.5mb. If someone is good with Excel & feels so inclined....it would be good to to work out what the actual min, max and average clutch engaged periods were. along with the number of cycles.

Pivot tables are your friend. They will take MBs of data in clean tables and show you calculated values within seconds. They can be graphed with 1 click.

If you want instructional help with excel pivot tables, please msg me.

Dom.

[golfyvic]

I'll put my hand up for another GT owner who has the noise.

Like Paul haven't really let it bother me as it happens rarely and before the supercharger (or while it is about to kick in)

Yeah me too... Hasn't happend for a while, all though now I notice sometimes when I put smash the pedal down (not when the engine's cold!) I get a total loss of power for a second. Extremely annoying!!!!:mad:

[cktsi]

Yeah me too... Hasn't happend for a while, all though now I notice sometimes when I put smash the pedal down (not when the engine's cold!) I get a total loss of power for a second. Extremely annoying!!!!:mad:

Do you have a DSG? If it's a DSG that "loss" of power may be due to it swapping cogs if it "guessed wrong" when trying to anticipate the gear change.

If it's a manual.... whole different kettle of fish.

[golfyvic]

Do you have a DSG? If it's a DSG that "loss" of power may be due to it swapping cogs if it "guessed wrong" when trying to anticipate the gear change.

If it's a manual.... whole different kettle of fish.

Yep DSG, but take off from first, shouldn't do that....

[cktsi]

Yep DSG, but take off from first, shouldn't do that....

Yes 1st shouldnt do that. But the dsg is just an automated clutch than a traditional auto torque converter so the dsg will need to find friction point first or it will stall the car.

My tip for quick takeoff is either let the clutch engage before smashing down the accelerator or do the following

1. Before take off light accelerator with right foot while putting left on foot brake. Floor your right and lift your left off the brake on take off.

2. Same as 1 but use hand brake instead of foot brake.

For 1 i notice dsg disengages the clutch after a couple of seconds so you apply light throttle while foot braking just 1 second before your planned take off.

I use method 2 cos sometimes i find i get bogged down in method 1.

Sadly 7dsg doesnt come with launch control or you wouldnt have to do this

You will win most traffic light races. ;)

i am posting on mobile but when i get access i will post link of dsg discussion.

[cwcarruthers]

Back to the thread topic... my August/September (can't remember which) build car was initially silent. Then from about 500km it started making (and still does) a soft sneezing/blow off noise when the supercharger disengages. It is very much not a squeak though.
I assume it is when the supercharger disengages because it occurs after I've squeezed the pedal for some performance (love the torque!), but then backed off to light throttle somewhere between 2000-3000 rpm.

Does this timing match with the infamouse squeak, and if it is indeed a different noise, does anyone think perhaps it indicates that the factory has made a change?

[njdavis103]

Hi all,

I am in Devon, UK and have had the GT TSI 1.4 for two weeks. I've done over 2000 miles already and at 1200 miles it started to squeak on acceleration. A short, sharp squeak, audible in the car but worse with the window down.

I went to the dealer yesterday who said it was 'a known fault', so no new news there! However, I then did some digging around the internet to discover this:

In Germany: Cars built from week 45 will have a new waterpump (and Magentkupplung- whatever that is, from the forums of the same site below), so contact your dealers/VW UK now!

http://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf6/golf6-probleme.htm

Translation

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf6/golf6-probleme.htm&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&usg=ALkJrhil1V4LET-e1DGmBDLV1ltZFRX2dw

So from the end of September 09 cars have been built to this spec, yet VW are not officially advising any changes to cars built prior to this date. They are still waiting to see if this resolves the problem! It is very frustrating but the UK dealer assured me a fix will be on its way and be resolved but could not give a timescale. I hope this new information and it helps.

[cktsi]

Yep DSG, but take off from first, shouldn't do that....

Here is a better thread (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=36524) to pose DSG questions. It delves into how the DSG works... if anything it will help you understand & better what to expect from the DSG.

It's probably worth posting in & reviving this other thread for DSG questions as this particular thread is about the magnetic clutch issue for the supercharger.

[GTom]

Just for those who are having this problem, I'd recommend you contact your dealer again as apparently VW have come up with the solution.

I had the problem (after 20k km) and then the dealer lubricated it a bit and it was fine for 6 months.

The squeal came back however.

Anyways long story short I can't remember exactly but they either replace the pulley or the pulley belt (was occupied doing a few things at once when I rang unf.)

This apparently fixes the problem with the squeal...

[coastie]

Back to the thread topic... my August/September (can't remember which) build car was initially silent. Then from about 500km it started making (and still does) a soft sneezing/blow off noise when the supercharger disengages. It is very much not a squeak though.
I assume it is when the supercharger disengages because it occurs after I've squeezed the pedal for some performance (love the torque!), but then backed off to light throttle somewhere between 2000-3000 rpm.

Does this timing match with the infamouse squeak, and if it is indeed a different noise, does anyone think perhaps it indicates that the factory has made a change?

Completely different the squeak is evident upon accelerating and the initial engaging of the supercharger magnetic clutch. It does not sound when you back off on the accelerator.

[coastie]

Just for those who are having this problem, I'd recommend you contact your dealer again as apparently VW have come up with the solution.

I had the problem (after 20k km) and then the dealer lubricated it a bit and it was fine for 6 months.

The squeal came back however.

Anyways long story short I can't remember exactly but they either replace the pulley or the pulley belt (was occupied doing a few things at once when I rang unf.)

This apparently fixes the problem with the squeal...

This type of fix was attempted in Sydney or Melbourne for someone in an earlier post about six months ago. VW last advised me in late November 09 that there is still no definitive answer yet. Was your fix as a result of a VW Tech bulletin or your dealer just trying something to resolve the problem.

[brodzta_GTI]

its strange.. when there new theres no noise.. then they seem to develop it over time.. we had 3 in the one week at one stage.. personally i love the nosie.. but i can also understand people's frustrations with a "strange" noise comming from the front, they've spent $35,000 on a car..

[logger]

Completely different the squeak is evident upon accelerating and the initial engaging of the supercharger magnetic clutch. It does not sound when you back off on the accelerator.
Hey Coastie, What makes you so sure it is happening during engagement of the supercharger magnetic clutch and not disengagement? I would challenge most people to be able to pick when the magnetic clutch engages unless they can see the telemetry. It is just that I reckon it actually occurs on disengagement of the clutch which also occurs during acceleration and typically only a couple of seconds after engagement.
Very often by the time you back off the accelerator the mag clutch has already disengaged long ago. So this is often not the trigger for disengage, although depending on how you drive it can be.
Logger.

[Guest]

Hey Coastie, What makes you so sure it is happening during engagement of the supercharger magnetic clutch and not disengagement? I would challenge most people to be able to pick when the magnetic clutch engages unless they can see the telemetry. It is just that I reckon it actually occurs on disengagement of the clutch which also occurs during acceleration and typically only a couple of seconds after engagement.
Very often by the time you back off the accelerator the mag clutch has already disengaged long ago. So this is often not the trigger for disengage, although depending on how you drive it can be.
Logger. As the water pump builds up with solenoid clutch, the one-piece anchorage plate on the outer pulley starts to vibrate. The volume of the noise depends on the operating conditions. STRAIGHT OF THE VW TECHNICAL BULLETIN

[coastie]

Hey Coastie, What makes you so sure it is happening during engagement of the supercharger magnetic clutch and not disengagement? I would challenge most people to be able to pick when the magnetic clutch engages unless they can see the telemetry. It is just that I reckon it actually occurs on disengagement of the clutch which also occurs during acceleration and typically only a couple of seconds after engagement.
Very often by the time you back off the accelerator the mag clutch has already disengaged long ago. So this is often not the trigger for disengage, although depending on how you drive it can be.
Logger.

Point taken, just my personal experience that it occurs immediately after I press the accelerator down (my impression milliseconds) however does not sound when I lift the accelerator up. That you have produced the telemetry indicating engagement and disengagement of the item makes it even more confusing as there is not a large period of time between the two events. I suspect sometime in the process the friction material between the two surfaces is slipping due to dust or similar by product of the friction material surface causing the noise or as vwweirdo submits a vibration causing the noise.

[logger]

As the water pump builds up with solenoid clutch, the one-piece anchorage plate on the outer pulley starts to vibrate. The volume of the noise depends on the operating conditions. STRAIGHT OF THE VW TECHNICAL BULLETIN
That doesn't actually clarify the engage/disengage thing. The water pump "builds up" all the way to the engines max rpm regardless of mag clutch position, because it is always driven by the ancillary belt and camshaft pulley. The solenoid clutch "builds up" all the way to momentarily after it is commanded to disengage when it does whatever the opposite of building up is. It does point the finger at the (outer) water pump pulley and not the supercharger pulley though, so thats useful info.

Point taken, just my personal experience that it occurs immediately after I press the accelerator down (my impression milliseconds) however does not sound when I lift the accelerator up. That you have produced the telemetry indicating engagement and disengagement of the item makes it even more confusing as there is not a large period of time between the two events. I suspect sometime in the process the friction material between the two surfaces is slipping due to dust or similar by product of the friction material surface causing the noise or as vwweirdo submits a vibration causing the noise.
Yeah I am not sure either. Intuitively I would have thought clutch slipping one or other end of the cycle, but it appears from vwweirdo's reference a high freq vibration of the water pump pulley is what we can hear. From a quick observation I thought I was hearing the chirp just as the solenoid switched OFF, but will recheck. Perhaps it is more inclined to vibrate in an audible manner when it is suddenly NOT clamped to the adjacent supercharger pulley by a strong electromagnetic field.
I will use the VCDS time stamp tool to mark when the chirp occurs and cross reference this to solenoid status and current so I can see for sure what end of the cycle it is at.

You still after the S/Charger data blocks?

[coastie]

Yes please, you can pm them if you wish. I don't have many chances to log but I am keen to put the VCDS to some better use than scans.

[brodzta_GTI]

^^ i second that.. ive read it enough times to know

[logger]

Yes please, you can pm them if you wish. I don't have many chances to log but I am keen to put the VCDS to some better use than scans.
Here you go - I am happy to make them public now:



;# Loggers CAV Supercharger measuring blocks#
;
232,0,Regulating Flap control Unit (J808)
232,1,NFI, (related somehow to G584/J808)
232,2,Regulating Flap position,(actual or commanded), 0-100% = Closed-Open
232,3,Regulating Flap position,(actual or commanded)
232,4,Voltage,Flap Potentiometer (G584), ,Specification: 0.7...4.0 V (5.1 v = sensor disconnected)
;
237,0,Magnetic Clutch Supercharger (N421)
237,2,Magnetic Clutch Current.
237,3,Magnetic Clutch Supercharger,Range: ON/OFF
237,4,Magnetic Clutch Supercharger,Range: ON/OFF
;
241,1,Intake Manifold,Pressure (G583 S/Charger)
241,2,Boost Pressure,(actual)
241,3,Boost Pressure,(specified)
241,4,Boost Pressure,(specified)
;

PM me if you need a complete label file and simple instructions on how to install it.

[Guest]

Here you go - I am happy to make them public now:


PM me if you need a complete label file and simple instructions on how to install it.
just for your own info i know this 236, display field 4, the condition of the solenoid valve (on/off)

[logger]

just for your own info i know this 236, display field 4, the condition of the solenoid valve (on/off)
Yeah thanks, it is already in my label file, however I left it out of the list above simply to remove duplication. . 236,3,4 replicate 237,3,4 but Block 237 is better as it also includes the solenoid current at 237,2 (perhaps by way of PWM) which is missing from block 236.

[gozamet]

Hi all
I'm from Poland and I'm quite new here.
We have also squeal noise problem here :(
But I have also somthing extra ;)
GOLF 1,4 TSI 118kW
I can hear some clicks from the engine by 1000rpm. No gear, pressed clutch and acceleration. I can hear some switching on and off of some device.
And this is my question: which device makes this cliks compressor or water pump?
Please see movie 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5afa_kSzLRI

Next near by 3000rpm I can hear squeal noise (well known problem).
Please see movie 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7DtumvYqG0

And my second question: is the same defect (water pump makes these cliks and squeal noise) or two different (compressor and water pump)?
Thanks for answer and sorry for my english.

[Silvery_one]

I visited a Dealer the other day and they mentioned that some cars (118Tsi) in Sydeny had a retro fit part they were testing over the next few weeks on cars.

If this works then they will retro fit ALL... Hope he was not just keeping me HAPPY...

Stay tuned.

[Guest]

I visited a Dealer the other day and they mentioned that some cars (118Tsi) in Sydeny had a retro fit part they were testing over the next few weeks on cars.

If this works then they will retro fit ALL... Hope he was not just keeping me HAPPY...

Stay tuned.No def is 100% true i know this first hand

[logger]

No def is 100% true i know this first hand Could you say that again in plain English? Call me old fashioned, but it makes no sense to me.

[Guest]

Could you say that again in plain English? Call me old fashioned, but it makes no sense to me.Sorry i know this definetly is true. I know that a replacment part is being trialled. Only trialled but.

[logger]

OK thanks. Now I understand. Interesting that they are trialling here in OZ.

[Guest]

OK thanks. Now I understand. Interesting that they are trialling here in OZ.Not just OZ other coutries too. Its just a bit hush hush cos it may not fix it yet.

[GTom]

I'm getting a new water pump put in, in the new year I believe. It seems that I only get this problem in very hot weather and then it stays around for a while.

There are a couple of dealers who are doing this, but they lubricate the pulley first and if this doesn't work they try something else.



Hi all
I'm from Poland and I'm quite new here.
We have also squeal noise problem here :(
But I have also somthing extra ;)
GOLF 1,4 TSI 118kW
I can hear some clicks from the engine by 1000rpm. No gear, pressed clutch and acceleration. I can hear some switching on and off of some device.



Czesc Gozamet,

I don't think anyone over here has had this problem. The squeal in your second vid seems like the squeal that I get when the S/C engages.

[Brian]

Another youtube video of a user with the same problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLu73I1QD7M

Is this a widespread problem? Is there anyone with a 118TSI that does NOT have this problem?

Sorry , I dont seem to have this problem with my 118TSI DSG. 8500Kms
Brian

[Mutley251]

2 x manual TSI's in my drive and both do it!

Only on the gear changes, but not on take off.

[jy01752684]

Hey. Is there any update on this issue? Will the newly ordered TSIs still have the same problem?

[MIRSAD]

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=de|en&u=http://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf6/golf6-probleme.htm&prev=/translate_s%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dhttp://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf6/golf6-probleme.htm%26sl%3Den%26tl%3Dde

That German website michaelenehouse is talking about new water pump from 03/2010

[jy01752684]

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=de|en&u=http://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf6/golf6-probleme.htm&prev=/translate_s%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dhttp://www.michaelneuhaus.de/golf6/golf6-probleme.htm%26sl%3Den%26tl%3Dde

That German website michaelenehouse is talking about new water pump from 03/2010

Thank you Mirsad. Are the dealer going to retro-fit the new water pump with this fix?

[Guest]

There is a new water pump/magnetic clutch with a different friction lining that does not make the noise they have been testing it now it has gone out to be fitted to the cars with the noise

[cktsi]

There is a new water pump/magnetic clutch with a different friction lining that does not make the noise they have been testing it now it has gone out to be fitted to the cars with the noise

I actually had an update last Friday when I picked up my car from service. I thought not to post and raise excitement unnecessarily because it seems like we keep hearing about updates for fix release only to find nothing tangible is happening to aussie 118TSI owners.

Since you’ve made the post, I thought may as well share what I have.

Last week VW five dock service centre received written notice from VW that they will be sending parts out and be engaging in a recall campaign for affected VINs. As usual, no timeframe was given on when the parts would be delivered nor when the mailout will be done. They know that it’s a fair number of vehicles that will be affected.

[POLARBEAR666]

It is probably just the friction material that they USED to use on the Golf GT and GT sport.

No mk5's suffer from the squeel as far as I am aware. Anyone know of any mk5's with the issue?

[MariusGT]

i rather enjoy hearing a squirrel yelp every so often when i accelerate!!!

:mouse:

but seriously.. does it affect performance? and aside from the noise being annoying to some people - is it damaging any other parts in any way?

Polar--> didn't you mean MK6's are not affected?

i thought it was a common trait/idiosyncrasy of both mk5 GT/GT Sport and 118tsi?

[idaho]

i rather enjoy hearing a squirrel yelp every so often when i accelerate!!!

:mouse:

but seriously.. does it affect performance? and aside from the noise being annoying to some people - is it damaging any other parts in any way?

Polar--> didn't you mean MK6's are not affected?

i thought it was a common trait/idiosyncrasy of both mk5 GT/GT Sport and 118tsi?

My wife's GT Sport doesn't do it. You just hear the supercharger click in (getting ready for action ??) when you put your foot on the clutch.

From reading the Erwin SSP for the 1.4TSI, the supercharger is engaged a fair bit of the time. Perhaps in the Mk6 VW have changed the engagement strategy in a bid for better economy which has resulted in the cuurent woes.

[cktsi]

From reading the Erwin SSP for the 1.4TSI, the supercharger is engaged a fair bit of the time. Perhaps in the Mk6 VW have changed the engagement strategy in a bid for better economy which has resulted in the cuurent woes.

That's interesting. I've always wanted to know what the real differences were between the two generations of engine. This has given a bit of insight. :thumbup:

[logger]

From reading the Erwin SSP for the 1.4TSI, the supercharger is engaged a fair bit of the time. From observing the cars telemetry I can tell you that it isn't. The supercharger engages very briefly but quite frequently. Without looking back at my notes I recall it typically engages for between 2 to 3 seconds which to my way of thinking is not at all a fair bit of the time. Be interesting to know what the minimum torque requirement to engage the S/Charger below 2400rev is, because it certainly does not run anywhere near all the time in that rev range.
Perhaps VW changed the friction material in the mag clutch simply to increase its life which would be kind of ironic for them.

[GTom]

No mk5's suffer from the squeel as far as I am aware. Anyone know of any mk5's with the issue?

Yes, and the dealer knows a few others.

I'm having the above work done next Monday.

[cktsi]

From observing the cars telemetry I can tell you that it isn't.

I think he was making the comment in relation to the MkV TSI


I'm having the above work done next Monday.

hey hey... this is new. Which dealer? Did you specifically receive the recall letter?

[GTom]

hey hey... this is new. Which dealer? Did you specifically receive the recall letter?

It's not a recall. I had the issue intermittently and then it comes back for about 5 weeks and goes away. Dealer lubricated the clutch and the noise went away for 6 or so months, then again came back on.

Dealer then basically said (this was before Christmas) that they'll replace it with the new design.

[idaho]

From observing the cars telemetry I can tell you that it isn't. The supercharger engages very briefly but quite frequently...


I think he was making the comment in relation to the MkV TSI...

Yes, I was referring to the BLG engine code version of the 1.4TSI in the Mk5 as described in ERWIN SSP 359. Page 13 in the section Constant boost range of supercharger says "From a minimum torque requirement and up to an engine speed of 2400 rpm the supercharger is constantly activated. The supercharger boost pressure is controlled via the regulating flap control unit."

From Logger's observations this is obviously not the case with the Mk6 TSI engines.

[logger]

..and nor is it for the BLG engine. As I stated "Be interesting to know what the minimum torque requirement to engage the S/Charger below 2400revs is...." If you re read your reference you will see it does not say the SCharger is constantly active below 2400rpm. It says from some nominal "minimum torque requirement" of x & up to 2400rpm it is constantly active. I am wondering what x is.
So when x torque is commanded revs rise quickly to 2400 rpm and SCharger clutch disengages because boost demand is now met by turbo alone. This takes 2-3 seconds. When < x torque is commanded revs rise slowly to 2400 and beyond without SCharger.
If indeed it was constantly active <2400rpm with any torque requirement then whenever you cruise along leasurly at 80kph in top gear on a flat road it would be running. It wont be. Hook your BLG up to VAGCom and you will see what I mean.
What significant differences there are between the BLG and CAV engines? For one the latter has a more modern ECU. Beyond that I dunno.

PS.. mine has the squeal these days and it does not bother me a bit.

[MariusGT]

Logger--

your detail of the engagement of s/c below 2400rpms is exactly what my understanding was.

However I am sure I read somewhere that the s/c can be active ABOVE that 2400 threshold when required.

Does this mean both s/c AND turbo are cranking together at some
points? What would that (y torque value?) requirement be??

OR- gear selected (in manual mode or 6m) is too high for the turbo to
cope by itself so the s/c gives a helping hand?

[logger]

Logger--

your detail of the engagement of s/c below 2400rpms is exactly what my understanding was.

However I am sure I read somewhere that the s/c can be active ABOVE that 2400 threshold when required.Yes you are quite correct. It can run above 2400 and up to 3500 which corresponds with the SChargers rev limit of 17,500 rpm. My reference to the 2400 was simply to clarify a misconception about when it runs in this band.


Does this mean both s/c AND turbo are cranking together at some
points? What would that (y torque value?) requirement be?? YES. The Turbo will always be spinning while exhaust is passing through its turbine however it needs certain amount of exhaust pressure to produce boost. Supercharger meets this brief gap by rapidly coming online, boosting the engine which in turn boosts the turbo which takes over from the supercharger. Thereby significantly reducing boost lag and allowing for boost at much lower revs than the turbo could achieve.


OR- gear selected (in manual mode or 6m) is too high for the turbo to
cope by itself so the s/c gives a helping hand?
Yeah I expect it would run in a tall gear when there is a high torque demand. Not sure what the actual torque figure is though and it will only be an arbitrary ECU torque in any case. This y value would probably be a curve.

[kriss60]

Just been advised by VW here in the UK that a resolution has now been found to the squeal problem. They have advised me to contact my local dealer asap who will fit new parts under warrenty - Did'nt say what parts but will find out tomorrow when I book the car in.

[coastie]

Waterpump replacement is what they did for mine this week.

[Corey_R]

So just to clarify because I haven't read the entire thread but I am interested here...

The squeal is caused by the waterpump and replacements of that is the solution.

But this is different from the 'other sound' which is caused by the solenoid engagement the supercharger and there is still no solution for that issue.

Is that right?

[logger]

The "other" sound is considered normal so perhaps no solution in being sought.

The supercharger solenoid and clutch is attached and integral with the water pump. Both sounds emanate from this same area. One, the "Squeak/Chirp" is thought to caused by the clutch material, which I understand has been changed on the new waterpump. The second noise, the "clicking" sound, can occur on solenoid disengagement. "When the magnetic clutch is switched off, three leaf springs pull the friction plate back to the starting position. Due to the high forces, a normal “clicking” of the magnetic clutch can occur".

I am not sure how prevalent the second sound actually is on the MK6. It predates the CAV engine and occured on the MKV BLG. So one would think they had already made mods to the WP clutch, prior to the latest fix to minimise its occurrence.

The "Squeak/Chirp" seems to be more common. I get it on my car. But not the clicking.

It will be interesting to see if you get a new waterpump too Kriss.... and if they roll it out as a warranty fix for the rest of us who are effected.

[Corey_R]

Thanks logger :)

[RW1]

Just been advised by VW here in the UK that a resolution has now been found to the squeal problem. They have advised me to contact my local dealer asap who will fit new parts under warrenty - Did'nt say what parts but will find out tomorrow when I book the car in.

Yes it will be interesting to hear how you get on in the coming months.

In Germany and UK, factory build post pump change new Scirocco 1.4TSi's (about Wk04/2010 build complete onwards) are reporting the "chirp" earlier, as early as 300 miles from new!

Replacement pumps fitted with the new modified clutch are reporting at about 1,000 miles.

This is the CAV type engine with the new pump: 03C 121 004 J, a new version of "J" reputed not to squeak. (VW haven't changed the part number!)

I somehow think VW have not solved it yet!

C.

[POLARBEAR666]

Just been advised by VW here in the UK that a resolution has now been found to the squeal problem. They have advised me to contact my local dealer asap who will fit new parts under warrenty - Did'nt say what parts but will find out tomorrow when I book the car in.

Bet they are just giving you ear plugs... or maybe a can of WD40

[Guest]

Yes it will be interesting to hear how you get on in the coming months.

In Germany and UK, factory build post pump change new Scirocco 1.4TSi's (about Wk04/2010 build complete onwards) are reporting the "chirp" earlier, as early as 300 miles from new!

Replacement pumps fitted with the new modified clutch are reporting at about 1,000 miles.

This is the CAV type engine with the new pump: 03C 121 004 J, a new version of "J" reputed not to squeak. (VW haven't changed the part number!)

I somehow think VW have not solved it yet!

C.
03C 121 004 J is the new part number for the waterpump/scharger clutch and does not squeak we fit one to a car about 4 months ago and he still said its not making a noise no noise is good noise

[triode12]

It is probably just the friction material that they USED to use on the Golf GT and GT sport.

No mk5's suffer from the squeel as far as I am aware. Anyone know of any mk5's with the issue?

My MKV GT TSI with 23K kms on the clock is squeal less. :banana:

I wonder if VW's quest to cut costs with the MkVI has also cut quality and ultimately reliability as well.

[MariusGT]

08 gt sport tsi... Occasional squeal.

For some (maybe strange) reason it doesn't bother me. In fact it jut reminds me the s/c is switching away doing it's thing building rpm's/exhaust gas for the turbo.

I say again- Love driving with windows down stereo off... Just so I can listen keenly to the little 1.4 gem!!! :banana:

Im yet to hear if the "squeal" has any detrimental performance or other effect? Other than annoying some people?

[triode12]

08 gt sport tsi... Occasional squeal.

For some (maybe strange) reason it doesn't bother me. In fact it jut reminds me the s/c is switching away doing it's thing building rpm's/exhaust gas for the turbo.

I say again- Love driving with windows down stereo off... Just so I can listen keenly to the little 1.4 gem!!! :banana:

Im yet to hear if the "squeal" has any detrimental performance or other effect? Other than annoying some people?

Marius,
You are not referring to the normal SC whine/whistle (like a whistling kettle on the boil) do you? Mine does that as would all SC'd cars but doesn't squeal.

[MariusGT]

Marius,
You are not referring to the normal SC whine/whistle (like a whistling kettle on the boil) do you? Mine does that as would all SC'd cars but doesn't squeal.

Oh no- I know the myriad noises coming from the engine and the mechanical whine of the sc and whistle of the turbo are not what I meant-- it is a distinct short sharp squirrel squark noise when the s/c kicks open..

[Frankenstrat]

Here's a link to YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLu73I1QD7M) with the chirruping noise in evidence in this clip. You may want to read the comments by Mirsad1999.

[logger]

08 gt sport tsi... Occasional squeal.

For some (maybe strange) reason it doesn't bother me. In fact it jut reminds me the s/c is switching away doing it's thing building rpm's/exhaust gas for the turbo. I dont mind the Squeak either.

... I'm yet to hear if the "squeal" has any detrimental performance or other effect? Other than annoying some people?
".....explain to the customer that this noise is normal and that no damage to the solenoid clutch will occur after the warranty period."
(from the VW Technical Service Handbook)

[Olaf the Golaf]

118 TSi manual and at about 1200kms i've developed the squeak. :(

Will be contacting my dealer later today to try and get it sorted.

[MariusGT]

Thanks for that logger..

I didn't think it was the sound of a suffering engine- more a quirk of the unusual engineering.

So how many sounds have we got going on now?

chirp/squark, hiss/whine, whistle, fluffy fart (dsg!)

go golf!!!!

[Paul_OH]

Interestingly on my GT I had intermittent chirp or squeak between 10K & 20K km but in the last 10-15000km or so it hasn't made a noise, FYI I'm now at 37000km.

[ctan]

Hey coastie, I am curious if the water pump replacement has fixed the squealing noise. That is about a month ago when it was replaced.

[silvaxt]

jumping in a little late here but my experience is of a 5000 kms old 118 TSI that delevoped the much talked about "squeak" - just as the SC kicks in. Took the car for a drive with one of the guys from the service department at Essendon and he comfirmed the noise came from the water pump / supercharger clutch assembly - known issue. Anyway the pump has been replaced under warranty with a revised version so I hope thats that. Other than that, the car has been great

[coastie]

Hey coastie, I am curious if the water pump replacement has fixed the squealing noise. That is about a month ago when it was replaced.
Yes no more noise, the car is great 2300km further since the replacement. It has just had its first birthday and I still feel like I'm driving a brand new car. The car has over 25000km.

[coastie]

I dont mind the Squeak either.
".....explain to the customer that this noise is normal and that no damage to the solenoid clutch will occur after the warranty period."
(from the VW Technical Service Handbook)

Just hypothesising but if there is a release of noise then there is a loss of energy and frictional loss creates wear as indicated by the noise. Consider that your tyres made a chirping noise due to slip on the road each time they took off. (not that that has ever happened) We all know that this is wearing the tyres faster than if they were to grip and not make any noise.

[MIRSAD]

According to German magazine Auto Bild and some forums new pump is not fixing squealing noise as it was expected.

This is translation from Auto Bild:

Google Translate (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=de%7Cen&u=http://www.autobild.de/artikel/vw-aerger-mit-tsi-motoren_1205846.html%3Fbild%3D6%26now%3D20&prev=/translate_s%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dmichael%2Bvw%2Bgolf%26 sl%3Den%26tl%3Dde&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgiVSFMTmFxQefy2H_nB8c7iXrfYg#mmg)

[Cossor]

Can appreciate concern re this clutch. got me worried too.
Hope my MY11 build will be better.
However, clutch MUST have some slip on engagement.
Consider dry clutch system in DSG. Quite possible also makes slight noise on engagement, but not audible, due to being inside housing.
Do not know design of clutch, but consider it possible magnetic system used to disengage, rather than engage.
In which case, if magnetic area made from ferrite (Ceramic) this is extremly hard surface. EG, chirp not due to metal on metal 'spalling'

[Stoney!]

Haha, agree totally, the more sounds thre better!!! Go Golf!!!

Stoney!

[prise]

My TSI is making the noise occasionally with the colder weather so I had a look at what the VW erwin database had to say about the noise for my VIN last weekend. Bottom line is that it is a recognised fault, they have made a production change and there is a part replacement you can get done under warranty if you can demonstrate the noise to the dealer. My last car (Mazda 6MPS) had a diff harmonic at a specific road speed and Mazda decided to do nothing and tell all the owners it was a normal characteristic of the car so it's good to see VW being proactive in this instance.

Here's an abridged version of what they had to say:

Description:

Clear, brief, high frequency squeaking noise.

Technical background:

As the water pump builds up with solenoid clutch, the one piece anchorage plate on the outer pulley starts to vibrate. The volume of the noise depends on the operating conditions.

Production Change:

Improved water pump with solenoid coupling from engine no.

CAV* 154 174

Measure: (I've omitted the bit about stationary testing as it can't be performed with DSG's which most of us have)

1. Constant speed in 2nd or 3rd gear at 2000-2200 rpm
2. Brief acceleration (1 second)
3. Repeat a few times

With engine codes BMY, BLG, BWK, CAV* fit the water pump with solenoid coupling with part number 03C121004 J.

[Guest]

My TSI is making the noise occasionally with the colder weather so I had a look at what the VW erwin database had to say about the noise for my VIN last weekend. Bottom line is that it is a recognised fault, they have made a production change and there is a part replacement you can get done under warranty if you can demonstrate the noise to the dealer. My last car (Mazda 6MPS) had a diff harmonic at a specific road speed and Mazda decided to do nothing and tell all the owners it was a normal characteristic of the car so it's good to see VW being proactive in this instance.

Here's an abridged version of what they had to say:

Description:

Clear, brief, high frequency squeaking noise.

Technical background:

As the water pump builds up with solenoid clutch, the one piece anchorage plate on the outer pulley starts to vibrate. The volume of the noise depends on the operating conditions.

Production Change:

Improved water pump with solenoid coupling from engine no.

CAV* 154 174

Measure: (I've omitted the bit about stationary testing as it can't be performed with DSG's which most of us have)

1. Constant speed in 2nd or 3rd gear at 2000-2200 rpm
2. Brief acceleration (1 second)
3. Repeat a few times

With engine codes BMY, BLG, BWK, CAV* fit the water pump with solenoid coupling with part number 03C121004 J.

That TPI has been out for about 2years now!
Also the new water pump is still not fixing the noise on some
They are testing a new compound at the moment