R32 Alignment Settings

[Vdubya]

Hey guys i've just had my car returned from doing a 4-wheel alignment and although it drives nicely, noticed that the steering wheel isnt aligned to the center, and the car slightly leans to the right driving on a straight surface. I suspect its a result of the wheel alignment itself, and I have a print out of data, and was hoping someone could shed some light into which results appear to be causing this?

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v24/lighthammer/?action=view&current=Picture002-1.jpg

[bazzle]

Did they reset the electic pump steering tracking?

Bazzle

[Vdubya]

I don't think they would have, since it wasn't included as part of the service. I pretty much delivered my car to them, "tyre specialists", and got given a $75 4 wheel alignment, and inflating/deflating tyres to appropriate spec.

I may need to ask them about the "pump steering tracking".

What strikes me as odd is the "rear axle -left camber" at -2 deg 01', in comparison to the rear axle -right camber" at -1 deg 28', shouldnt they be close to identical?

In truth i have to admit to being abit unsure what to make of all these specs.

[Jarred]

I believe your rear axle alignment was better to start off with, at -1.5 and -1.3.

I would go back to them, I personally wouldn't be happy with over half a degree of camber difference.

[aristocrat]

What strikes me as odd is the "rear axle -left camber" at -2 deg 01', in comparison to the rear axle -right camber" at -1 deg 28', shouldnt they be close to identical?

I think more negative camber is good if you drive hard since it will then scrub evenly. If you don't spend too much time driving hard, then too much of a negative camber will scrub the inner wall of the tyre, leading to uneven wear.

To that the right camber being less than the left side is normal practice, since they probably done the 4 wheel alignment without the weight of the driver (say 80Kg) on the right side, which then should increase the negative camber on the right side to about the same as the left side. This is all assuming that you normally have no passenger next to you.

If I were you, I'd go and ask them some questions as to how they actually did the wheel alignment. I would also check what the factory recommends as the correct camber/castor settings and the method they use.

The professionals have sand bags on the drivers side to emulate a driver being there BEFORE they adjust the camber/castor/toe in values. They also should "lock" the steering wheel in the dead centre position and adjust the tie rod ends to suit - in that way, the steering will always be 'centered'.

[Vdubya]

Hey thanks for the advice guys, im going to just bring the car back in as they guarantee the wheel alignment for 30days anyway, and based on my driving style i usually have one passenger in the vehicle of equal weight as myself, so having bias to the "right camber" won't be ideal for me.

Knowing these mob though, they will probably go out of their way to extort me for a tyre rotation, but we shall see. The car leans quite alot to the "right" and i need to pull the car to the left in order to straighten the steering wheel becoming quite an annoyance.

[brad]

I'll preface this by saying I've never aligned an R32 or seen the factory specs. I haven't done a wheel alignment for money in 20+ years but the theory doesn't change much.

That looks wrong. (why haven't they got the target data collum populated?).

I did find some MKIV R32 specs (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1807901).

Rear camber should be -1.5+-0.2. I would have left those cambers where they are (near enough IMO).
The rear toe is worrying. I'd almost guarantee you will get tyre wear problems from those settings.
The left tyre was pointing outwards 0.8mm, the right pointing inwards 1.4mm. for a combined of 0.6mm. IIRC this is about where it should be (total toe) so they should have pointed the left tyre inwards & the right outwards - you want about 0.5mm-1mm toe-in on R32s I believe (opposite to what I would set most cars at). So their 4mm toe-in = WTF?

On the front, I thought the R32 had adjustable camber? Anyway, if possible I'd give it more -ve camber (-1.0 would be nice), with a fraction extra on the LHS.
I would have backed the RH toe off a fraction (positive toe = toe-in IIRC) to make it closer to zero (maybe 0.5mm toe-in) as it's front drive & when you get the power on, the wheels creep inward.

Take it back, ask them to explain how they decided to set it where it is.

The -2.0 degrees on the LHR is making it drive to the right. The excessive rear toe-in will cause a truckload of rear tyre wear (IMO).

All that toe-in on the front with the small amount of -ve camber it is carrying will wear the outside edges of the tyre prematurely.

i wouldn't be overly concerned about sandbags, 1 person/2 persons - it's only a road car.

[Vdubya]

Thanks for the further comments guys, i gave this mob the benefit of the doubt and to fix the errors of their ways, and used the info and this thread to argue my point. It was discovered the excessive camber was causing the vehicle in tracking "right". I was mentioned realignment close to the settings brad supplied, as a search shows near identical results from our users with R32's.

The problem appears to be "marginally" fixed, and i demanded another wheel alignment sheet of the further results. They have now made changes to the

rear axle -left camber, -1deg25'
rear axle -right camber -1deg25'

------------
rear axle -left toe, +1,1mm
rear axle -right toe, +1,1mm

=======================

total: 2,2mm

========================

front axle -left camber, -0 deg54'
front axle -right camber -0 deg59'

------------
rear axle -left toe, 1,0mm
rear axle -right toe, 1,0mm

=========================

total: 2,0mm

=========================

Castor

Castor left 7deg,04'
Castor right 7deg,15'

=========================

K.P.I. (Kingpin Inclination)

left 14deg33'
right 14deg38'

=========================

Setback: 0deg07'

[Vdubya]

Do you guys think these results are acceptable? The car doesn't feel like driving the same way as before i booked it in. Which could be a combination of tyre pressure/the alignment, or generally just giving the vehicle time to settle in with the changes.

Or otherwise am i better off in bringing the car for a second opinion to somewhere like a VW dealership and getting a realignment to factory specs done?

[brad]

The cambers are much better.

I won't comment about the rear toe-in becuase I'm not sure..... I used to set my AWD Liberty with 1mm toe-out to make it turn into corners better but the R32 is a different setup.

I think the front still has too much toe-in, but again that's based on general experience & Subarus. It's better to see what the tyre wear was like before changing settings.

Generally, I'd recomend you try Heasemans at Tempe but lately I'm not so sure.

As the others have mentioned, I thought there was some type of VagCom/VCDS reset that was needed?

What part of Sydney are you in?

[Tim]

Factory specs for all golf model wheel alignments should be listed in the following document. Scroll down a bit to find the R32 ones.

http://www.vr6.com.au/images/golf%20alignment%20specs.pdf

[brad]

thanks Tim,

So the rear is 10 minutes +-12.5minutes.

you actually need the tyre diameter to convert it properly but 1' is roughly 0.21mm so 10' is ~2.1mm which makes the rear close enough.

Fronts appear to be within spec too - so 2nd chance has resulted in correct settings.

If it feels weird, did they do any tyre rotations, or have they set the tyre pressures wrongly?

[Tim]

define weird?

[r32dsg]

Do you guys think these results are acceptable? The car doesn't feel like driving the same way as before i booked it in. Which could be a combination of tyre pressure/the alignment, or generally just giving the vehicle time to settle in with the changes.

Or otherwise am i better off in bringing the car for a second opinion to somewhere like a VW dealership and getting a realignment to factory specs done?

I was in the same situation a couple of months back. Took my r32 to the local tyre specialist and after the alignment the car felt slightly off centre and pull to one side. After a couple of visit going back and couldn't get it rectified i took my car to VW for a second opinion.

It was better but still wasn't completely satisfied. Costing $180 all up and a week of numermous visit there an back i gave up. Its about 7000kays now and i have notice my inside edge of the tyre is slightly worn at the front. Might give Trutrack a try next and was quoted $140.

[Vdubya]

Hi Tyre totation, wasn't done as part of the service, just a 4 wheel (front and rear) alignment. Pretty certain tyre pressure was also adjusted at this time.

Thanks for your responses guys, the "weird" driving effect is the car feels like it has a natural bias to drift to the right position. Alot more steering input is required to navigate the car to the left and especially on turns.

According to the document, Tim it does appear they have made a more correct alignment so rather then rushing to the conclusion of foul play, ill check my tyre pressure in the event one of them is over/under inflated. Under normal driving conditions and based on my tyres 225/40, i should be running at 40.3PSI each wheel.

Will report back results, thanks again for all your feedback guys its been greatly appreciated!

[brad]

define weird?

Not as it felt in the past? Not feeling stable/normal/as good as previous?

I know from my old Liberty that moving the rear toe from 1mm toe out to 2mm made it too lively for relaxed driving.

Changing the front from 1mm toe out to 1mm toe in had significant affect on the turn-in and general feel in the steering.

[Vdubya]

Hi Brad, its hard to convey in words but it is noticably different from before i sent the car for a wheel alignment. At the time i brought it in, the car was tracking straight, but the steering wheel was abit slumped to the right.

This was enough to annoy me, and having never done a wheel alignment before i thought why not check, since i had on occasion gone over some nasty potholes. In hindsight, i was kind of wishing i never did this and almost tempted enough to bring the car back to where i bought it and get them to make adjustments so its defaulted to factory specs.

Suffering pretty much the same symptoms as "r32dsg" has determined in his post.

[Vdubya]

Just an update i thought id bring my car into "heasman" having heard alot of rave reports about them, and determined what the problem was to the handling of the car, which no form of alignment would have fixed.

One of the apprentices, drove the car with me for a good 30mins, and couldnt forsee a problem, the car tracked straight turn in right/left and steering wheel was centre aligned. Decided to bring the car up on a hoist, because when reverse gear was engaged he heard a "clunk", which i thought was normal, and just a DSG gearbox oddity.

Only then discovered that "i think" its referred to as the front control arm, which was attached to the left wheel was quite loose (was easily able to wedge a flathead screwdriver in the gap and move it around).

He mentioned something about possibly having to replace the front control arm, but doing some research wouldnt it be easier to just replace the bushings?

Said before another alignment was attempted this would need to be soughted and he would call VW for a quote. I'm still covered for manufacturer warranty so would a "control arm" be classified as a wear-tear item?

[brad]

Said before another alignment was attempted this would need to be soughted and he would call VW for a quote. I'm still covered for manufacturer warranty so would a "control arm" be classified as a wear-tear item?
A fair few of my Subaru buddies have had the lower control arm bushes replaced under warranty.

It's worth giving it a shot as I'd guess about $400+ to do the job (if you have to buy a whole arm).

I'd also be asking the other mob for your money back as part of doing any alignment is to check the suspension for wear. There is no point doing an alignment if there is uncontrolled movement in the suspension assembly.