1.4 APR Chip - First Impressions [Archive]

GTom

09-06-2009, 09:41 PM

Today I got the APR Stage 1 chip for the 1.4L GT TSI (I believe it's the same as the 118TSI in the Mk6)...

Currently on the market I believe there are now 3 tunes (Revo, Oettinger, APR)
- Didn't go with Oettinger as the price was too high for me ($2500)
- Revo, didn't really look into this one as I didn't want to reflash the car by myself (~$1500)
- APR well I went with this one ($1620 with the 10% discount in June with 2 programs - I got stock and '98' programs - the savings are now in the "Toms new wheels fund" :D)

Due to boredness of studying (there's only so much you can take :duh:) took the car out for an hour....

Anywho the APR chip.....
Put simply.... Think the current smoothness in the twincharger, but with amplified power and torque.

- Down low the car is more responsive
- The car seems to benefit from the tune up high as well
- Bit more torquey in the mid range
- No MASSIVE surge of power anywhere in the rev range, so it makes it seem like there is no lag at all...
- You can definitely feel the extra torque when you put your foot down.

Changing between the programs is fairly easy (the clip on the apr site makes it look difficult, i thought that anyway)

I'll try to get a video out comparing the two programs... But don't know when

Any questions more then happy to answer them!

Creniac

09-06-2009, 11:12 PM

GTom, I'm also looking at the APR Chip also so it's good to see you have jumped in first.... dude I'm keen to know all your experiences with it in the next few weeks....

kaoticice

10-06-2009, 08:07 AM

the gt tsi has 125kw, whilst the 118tsi has 118kw if im not wrong... BUt yeh congratz on the tune ey! expect a huge gain :nana:
any dyno graphs of before and after?

Fanaki

10-06-2009, 08:25 AM

Thanks for the write up GTom!

I've just had my 15k service and will be visiting the local APR rep as soon as I can get a few days free...

But in the mean time, I am keen to hear how much of a difference the tune makes to fuel economy, driveability at low revs (ie nice and smooth off idle, no stuttering) and how many car lengths you can get on a V8 :driver:

Look forward to hearing more soon ;)

Guy_H

10-06-2009, 09:27 AM

Sage

10-06-2009, 10:18 AM

one question.. was it worth the money?

PROJET - L

10-06-2009, 04:22 PM

Very interested in the outcome for this.
I am looking at trading my Passat in on a Jetta TSI or Octavia TSI
and would like weight up the tuning potential of both.

Keep us updated.:smile:

kaoticice

10-06-2009, 09:27 PM

Hey GTom - Thanks for the review.

The big difference when you jump form say a GTI to a twincharger is the seamless onset of power. The GT is almost like a normally aspirated car, where the GTI the power & torque comes in pretty hard at 2500 - 300rpm with a bigger surge.

If only they could apply the twincharger to bigger capacity motors, the technology is awesome.

I completely agree with the similarity of the twin-charger behavior with an aspirated engine. Another problem turbocharged cars is it lacks the throttle response, making the tsi appear faster.:driver:

Maverick

10-06-2009, 09:59 PM

I completely agree with the similarity of the twin-charger behavior with an aspirated engine. Another problem turbocharged cars is it lacks the throttle response, making the tsi appear faster.:driver:

The TSI can appear faster all it wants doesn't change the fact it's slower!

I can't say I've noticed any lack of throttle response in the GTI, maybe on the cars with the K04 and larger turbos but all you have to do is adjust your driving style to adapt to the slower turbo spin up time.

BarneyBoy

10-06-2009, 10:34 PM

I completely agree with the similarity of the twin-charger behavior with an aspirated engine. Another problem turbocharged cars is it lacks the throttle response, making the tsi appear faster.:driver:

Completely true observation. That's one reason why the TSI is so nice to drive.
While one of the better turbo engines for spooling up quickly, the GTI can never deliver its ample power as seamlessly as the TSI.

It just depends what you prefer. Personally, most of my driving is done below 3000 rpm - around town. And the little that occurs above 3000 is perfectly enjoyable for me.

It'd be nice to see how this APR chip compares with the Revo and Oettinger.
Anyone have either of these?

GTom

11-06-2009, 01:48 AM

Well just got back from work .... The drive back home was great.

Like guy said there is no sudden onset of power. If you didn't know it was a 1.4L with two chargers connected to it you would think it is Naturally Aspirated..

Another thing noticed is the traction control likes to kick in a bit more now :D.

The extra torque is now noticeable especially in the 2500 rpm range (as guy pointed out)

Was it worth it.... With the 10% off I think so... Putting into perspective the prices of the competitors (I can't comment on the other two as I have never driven any car with the chips)

I have footage of both the stock tune and the APR tune... I will try and edit to put the two side by side...

kaoticice

11-06-2009, 08:44 AM

The TSI can appear faster all it wants doesn't change the fact it's slower!

I can't say I've noticed any lack of throttle response in the GTI, maybe on the cars with the K04 and larger turbos but all you have to do is adjust your driving style to adapt to the slower turbo spin up time.

i get a lag in throttle at really low speeds in compared with our outlander. But once the car is running at a speed the throttle lag disappears. At first it was kind of stressing coz due to the throttle lag you'll automatically react by giving more gas, then u get this massive surge of torque and in a blink you're doing 60 :biggrin:
Use to it now, though my dad is complaining at the moment haahahaha.

Paul_OH

11-06-2009, 10:09 AM

The TSI can appear faster all it wants doesn't change the fact it's slower!

Slower than what Mav, a chipped GTI? I don't doubt it is. But is it slower than a std GTI with equivalent quoted power yet more torque (avail from lower revs) and less weight in the TSI configuration? I imagine that it would be quicker. Until someone comes out with performance figures and confirms your 'fact' I'll be sitting on the fence.

POLARBEAR666

11-06-2009, 12:08 PM

TSI is 40kg lighter at the nose according to VW racing UK's press releases.

and if you take another 40kg out hehehe....:driver:

Maverick

11-06-2009, 01:40 PM

Slower than what Mav, a chipped GTI? I don't doubt it is. But is it slower than a std GTI with equivalent quoted power yet more torque (avail from lower revs) and less weight in the TSI configuration? I imagine that it would be quicker. Until someone comes out with performance figures and confirms your 'fact' I'll be sitting on the fence.

The discussion was about the TSI having no "lag" and that if felt faster. Nothing to do with the chipped TSI.

Having said that I doubt the chipped GT would beat a stock GTI as the power delivery is different (look at the Dyno's and you'll see what I mean)

BarneyBoy

11-06-2009, 06:12 PM

I think the word kaoticice used was "appear" faster, Mav.
He never said it "is" faster. Chill, fella.

And Paul's assertion that the chipped TSI may be quicker due to its power:weight ratio is just as valid (maybe more so) as your Dyno assertion.
But then again, all dynos are inaccurate, aren't they Mav? :biggrin:

Only way any of us will know is a good, old-fashioned standing 400 meters between both cars.

Maverick

11-06-2009, 07:46 PM

I think the word kaoticice used was "appear" faster, Mav.
He never said it "is" faster. Chill, fella.

Read what I said again and toddle off and troll somewhere else.

And Paul's assertion that the chipped TSI may be quicker due to its power:weight ratio is just as valid (maybe more so) as your Dyno assertion.
But then again, all dynos are inaccurate, aren't they Mav? :biggrin:

I never said that, what I did do was quote what the Dyno manufacturers themselves say which is that you can't use Dyno's for comparisons as there are too many variables, tuning is a different story and this is what they're designed for. What is useful is the curve and comparing peak power is useless as it doesn't show the increase that GTI picks up midrange when boost really kicks in.

Only way any of us will know is a good, old-fashioned standing 400 meters between both cars.

Still many variables in that including suspension, tyres, wheels and so on to contend with.

guliver_twist

11-06-2009, 08:34 PM

would love to see a race between a chipped TSi and stock mk5 GTI
GTom is it possible to have you record a sprint from 0-100? of your speedo(or time yourself)? That way we can see how long a modded car takes...
What is the ingeer acceleration like...e.g. pull in 6th gear vs stock 6th
Has anyone chipped their MK6?

BarneyBoy

11-06-2009, 09:36 PM

Read what I said again and toddle off and troll somewhere else.

You said "The TSI can appear faster all it wants doesn't change the fact it's slower!" As I said, he never claimed is was faster.

As for "Trolling":
I have a TSI, you don't.
This thread is _specifically_ about TSIs - that makes YOU the troll.
Before you condescendingly accuse others, go find a mirror and give yourself a long hard look.

Fair dinkum Maverick, you'd have to be about as tactless a human being as is possible. Why not learn how to write? It's an art - there are no visual, audio, or annunciation clues that accompany the words. This forum is what it is - it's not World Peace, it's not a cure for cancer, and it's not a place where Maverick sticks his beak into even threads where he has no specific knowledge only to abuse anybody and everybody who dares to express an opinion.

Post after post after post you seem to be able to crawl right up many, many folks arses, all through incompetent choices of words. And if it's NOT an incompetent choice of words, I fear that would make you a 1st class prick, and I'm extending you the benefit of the doubt in that area.

The forum is supposedly a friendly exchange of opinions - you have successfully transformed it into an "I'm always right, and you're a ****head if you don't agree with me" forum.

Thanks for nothing, now piss off.:crazy:

POLARBEAR666

11-06-2009, 09:40 PM

PUT HIM ON IGNORE... like i have.

kaoticice

11-06-2009, 10:05 PM

aw, c'mon guys.. chill it!!

I think Marv was just making a straight opinion on my post, and i didn't think the comment was intended to offend me and others in anyway. Maybe he's a little 'too' directive in his way of commenting (maybe some sentences aren't suppose to be there in the first place), that may possibly generate misunderstanding.

Let's all stop the :brutal:.. instead we should all resolve this with :drinkbeer::drinkbeer:

continuing the thread... can we see the video comparison sooon? :biggrin:

sameatworld

11-06-2009, 10:09 PM

I agree

Have been following both this and mkv forum for over a year and am just sick of Mav's antics. Jesus just shut the hell up!! :brutal:

I have a chipped GTI but also have driven TSI on many occasions as my flat mate has one. It's a fantastic engine with absolutely no lag. I would assume that APR tune will make it more punchy without the crazy amount of wheel spin you get in mine when you give it some.

:cool46:

Maverick

11-06-2009, 10:24 PM

You said "The TSI can appear faster all it wants doesn't change the fact it's slower!" As I said, he never claimed is was faster.

And I never claimed that he said it was faster, you can try and twist my words around all you like but it doesn't change what I wrote.

kaoticice said that turbocharged cars lack throttle response to which I said that the GTI with the K03 doesn't suffer from turbo lag like other cars and I found the throttle response to be good. The comments were all related around the topic of throttle response and the way that the twin charger delivers power differently to a turbo.

As for "Trolling":
I have a TSI, you don't.
This thread is _specifically_ about TSIs - that makes YOU the troll.

Try again, did you miss the GTI reference that I was responding to, oh I guess you're too busy trolling to notice that.

blah blah blah blah.....
Thanks for nothing, now piss off.:crazy:

Try taking your own advice :duh:

Golf Houso

11-06-2009, 10:35 PM

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/06/tumbleweed-1.jpg

h100vw

11-06-2009, 11:03 PM

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/06/tumbleweed-1.jpg

Nice weed!:biggrin:

Golf Houso

11-06-2009, 11:07 PM

Nice weed!:biggrin:

Why thank you Sir, how kind of you to notice :biggrin:
I think it sums up pretty well how myself and probably the majority of other people are feeling towards this thread in its current state...

VW Convert

11-06-2009, 11:11 PM

Why thank you Sir, how kind of you to notice :biggrin:
I think it sums up pretty well how myself and probably the majority of other people are feeling towards this thread in its current state...

I'm getting this feeling of Déjà Vu!

Cheers

George

Golf Houso

11-06-2009, 11:15 PM

I'm getting this feeling of Déjà Vu!

Cheers

George

Yeah me too George, I also have a feeling it won't be the last time either :duh:

At least the tumbleweed made a comeback :)

BarneyBoy

11-06-2009, 11:37 PM

PUT HIM ON IGNORE... like i have.

Good advice, Polar.

This thread is like tucking into a nice bowl of soup and then discovering a pube in it.

Anyway... as I was saying... It'd be nice to see how this APR chip compares with the Revo and Oettinger.

Anyone have either of these?

stephen8512

12-06-2009, 04:21 PM

chipped GT TSI vs stock GTI.....

dunno about anyone else but I'd be very interested as to what the outcome of this would be.

mav was saying that there were too many variables regarding a 1/4 mile drag between the 2 cars. I agree with the comment regarding wheels, but I can't see how the other variables might hinder the outcome if its against a STOCK GTI vs a STOCK GT TSI with an APR chip (yes, technically its not STOCK anymore but stock in terms of suspension, etc).

for argument sake, if both cars had the same fresh wheels (same wheel make and model etc) and if they both went down the 1/4 mile, it would be very interesting as to where the chipped GT comes in. i'd think itd be a very close outcome

I suppose to compare, it should also do a run against a completely stock, non chipped GT TSI with the stock GTI.

At the end of the day, a chip is to increase the performance and remove the restrictions from the factory ECU and it seems like the APR chip definitely has done that. As to whether or not a chipped GT is faster than a stock GTI, who really cares? if a GTI really is faster, so what? everybody got their car for whatever reason and these sorts of comparisons are useless. Whatever makes ya happy is what counts....

Creniac

12-06-2009, 06:56 PM

Alright guys, I've run it through a 1/4 mile calculator........we all know the GTI (stock) comes in with 147KW and weighs 1340kg in 6 speed manual ....
TSI (chipped APR) comes in with 151KW and weighs 1310kg in 6 speed manual......

Before we run it through any of the online calculators we need to convert the KW to HP and the KG to Lbs.... being an Engineer we know 746watts = 1 HP and 1kg = 2.2 Lbs (close enough)

So here it is:

converted GTI (stock is) 197HP and weighs 2948 Lbs
converted TSI (chipped) 202HP and weighs 2882 Lbs

Now for the calculator:

GTI (stock) 1/4 mile in 14.35 secs @ 94.95 miles an hour (152.8 Km/h)
TSI (chipped) 1/4 mile in 14.13 secs @ 96.48 miles an hour (155.43 Km/h)

Theoretically the chipped TSI wins on paper....... BUT ONLY JUST!!!!

Disclaimer: MAV NO COMMENTS PLEASE!!!:drinkbeer:

GTom

12-06-2009, 07:14 PM

LoL... thought this thread was going to go off topic...

Sorry haven't posted for a while busy with other commitments....

Within the same amount of distance on the stock program I got to a top speed of ~90..... with the chip ~100 (this was on a freeway...)

If anyone with a DSG GTI wants to make a clip of a dash to 100 from standstill and send to me I'll include it on the mash up.... OR even someone with the other chip for the TSI would be nice also....

I've recorded it but it starts from 30km/h (I forgot to press the record button when at standstill....) just have to format it into split screen..

From what I've seen from above the stock program keeps par with the flash until about ~40-50 Km/h then the flash gets faster...

I've been trying to plan to go to a few meets in Sydney..... But they are all freaking on days I work WTF!

However if anyone is around my area and wants to see it in action send us a PM might be able to organise something!

mr gee

12-06-2009, 08:12 PM

the gt tsi has 125kw, whilst the 118tsi has 118kw if im not wrong... BUt yeh congratz on the tune ey! expect a huge gain :nana:
any dyno graphs of before and after?

The big diff between the two is more about a 7 speed DSG that is supposedly limited to 250nm vs a 6 spd DSG (350nm)

Paul_OH

12-06-2009, 08:19 PM

The big diff between the two is more about a 7 speed DSG that is supposedly limited to 250nm vs a 6 spd DSG (350nm)

And I understand tuned to get improved economy 7.7l/100km for the 125kW vs 6.6l/100km for the 118kW - quite a healthy difference for the sake of 7kW!

I wouldn't mind any feedback you have re: economy too GTom

Greg Roles

12-06-2009, 09:22 PM

Treza360

12-06-2009, 09:37 PM

Who would have EVER though when the mighty MKV GTI was released that in a few years time close competition would come from a 1400cc motorcycle engine version, or even worse, an oil powered version. Speaks volumes for just how good the engineers at VW are, when they can take two fairly limited powerplant designs, and get them to within a second or so of the car of the year. Who cares which is faster outright. The TSI has a massive displacement disadvantage, yet, there it is nipping on the "big boys" heels.
Just awesome.

It will be interesting to see just how far you can push these engines with bolt ons though. As we've seen with the APR Stage 3 GTI you can get some phenomenal power out of the 2L donk. It also shows just how under stressed the GTI is (albeit to the extreme but look at the S3 and even the Pirelli as well).

Whether the TDI or TSI motors are capable of this kind of thing would be interesting to see. Still mighty impressive though.

Cheers,
Trent

Creniac

12-06-2009, 09:57 PM

Well Said Cogdoc!!!

POLARBEAR666

12-06-2009, 10:47 PM

It will be interesting to see just how far you can push these engines with bolt ons though. As we've seen with the APR Stage 3 GTI you can get some phenomenal power out of the 2L donk. It also shows just how under stressed the GTI is (albeit to the extreme but look at the S3 and even the Pirelli as well).

Whether the TDI or TSI motors are capable of this kind of thing would be interesting to see. Still mighty impressive though.

Cheers,
Trent

I think the limit on an iron block like the 1.4 is the head bolts. Heads normally start to lift once you pass 25psi-28psi and then you need head stud kit. However VW motors may have really good head bolt setups and not need an upgrade.

The only other probable weakness is the pistons. The rods won't have an issue as torque won't get near anything to bend the rods unless they are really tiny.

I have seen a stock EJ207 short block subaru motor run 30psi day in day out with motec m800 and a really sharp tune running wideband lambda. Tuning is the key if you wanna push things. Motor never popped! ran 460hp@wheels.

spiff

13-06-2009, 04:32 AM

And I understand tuned to get improved economy 7.7l/100km for the 125kW vs 6.6l/100km for the 118kW - quite a healthy difference for the sake of 7kW!

I wouldn't mind any feedback you have re: economy too GTom

I'm glad someone raised this. I've read a bit about the limitation placed o the 7 spd dsg. Is that limitation in place for the purposes of fuel economy? Or is there something more to it?

Is it true that tuning/chipping and engine mods reduce the life of the engine? Or is it just a general statement that applies to heavy mods that push the engine to its limit?

I am thinking of chipping at some stage - thinking after the car has run in and I've had a feel so I can compare - in the future, and I don't mind sacrificing a little fuel economy for heaps more fun..so I'm also waiting to hear back about fuel economy differences in the chip v unchipped.

Unlike some others, I definitely want to keep my car around for more than 3,4,5 years..

:)

golfyvic

13-06-2009, 09:03 AM

warhead

13-06-2009, 09:24 AM

With the APR tune, is VW's adaptive ECU functions still enabled?

I hate how my car "adapts" to the way I drive and at one point even stopped the turbo from spooling unless I went WOT. Did a reset and it was responsive for all about 10km and now it's starting to revert back to it's lethargic state.

I drive "normally" most of the time.

kaoticice

13-06-2009, 10:29 AM

all i can say is ...... VdUb !!
1.4 tsi is an amazing engine imo.. why can't they just have a 2.0 twincharger version on the GTI :duh: Lolz

the 2.0tfsi without re-mapping is also fairly restricted, note the gain on apr stage 1 : 400nm+ tyre ------> :brutal: <------driver *fatality*

So in my conclusion; both engines are well engineered :bowdown::bowdown:

GTom

13-06-2009, 02:28 PM

Yep I agree...Got my TSi cos apart from the fact it looks awesome, loved the idea of the super charger and the turbo.. By the way, getting the APR upgrade next saturday after Volkspower (in Vic), gave me a 6 hr free trial. All they do is load up the software for the trial, and it runs for 6 driving hours. Made a massive difference especially down low...:biggrin:

I got the TSI for the exact same reason!

Yay, someone else who can answer the questions as well :biggrin:

The consumption varies alot on how you drive it.... If you drive normally I have found it to be pretty much the same but if you give it some it will chew more than giving it some on the stock chip.... Hope that helps answering the consumption question....

I'll have the comparison up and running on YouTube Monday arvo.....

BarneyBoy

13-06-2009, 05:13 PM

I'm glad someone raised this. I've read a bit about the limitation placed o the 7 spd dsg. Is that limitation in place for the purposes of fuel economy? Or is there something more to it?

It seems to be a design decision based on efficiency/economy/packaging.

The original 6 speed used wet clutches, with the new one being dry clutches that are apparently cooler running & more efficiently. It's also smaller, weighs 7 kg less and only uses 1.7 litres of oil vs 5.5 litres on the 6 speed.

This first version seems to have been designed with models like the Polo in mind - smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient, and with its torque limitations, not likely to be an issue with their smaller engines. Doubtless a more heavy duty version is in the works so that it can be fitted to diesels and engines like the GTIs.

There's some info about the 7 speed DSG here:
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/dsg-7-speed.htm

spiff

14-06-2009, 03:40 PM

thanks for that barneyboy. :)

i also saw a similar question asked on the mk6 golf subforum, and it mentioned that there's quite a large buffer.. so i'm not too worried if that's the case.
i'm sure after the run-in, there will be more people who have had various chips installed.

if fuel consumption isn't that much different when driving normally, then maybe there won't be a need to keep switching it between the stock and one of the chipped modes.

POLARBEAR666

17-06-2009, 01:49 PM

How are the tunes going guys.... does car feel like its getting faster now that computer has adapted a bit?

My car is flying atm in the cold weather and without a supercharger cover I am getting only 3-5 degrees difference between ambient and intake air temps hehe. My traction light at light throttle is flashing all the time.

KWICKS

17-06-2009, 02:25 PM

I just read this whole thread. Part of me laments the fact we weren't patient enough to hold out another 3 months for the GT TSI we ordered. The GTI is good, but the TSI is a better day to day proposition becasue it is less jiggly and the power is available immediately. Bugger hey, and congrats on your choice to upgrade.

golfyvic

17-06-2009, 09:43 PM

I got the TSI for the exact same reason!

Yay, someone else who can answer the questions as well :biggrin:

The consumption varies alot on how you drive it.... If you drive normally I have found it to be pretty much the same but if you give it some it will chew more than giving it some on the stock chip.... Hope that helps answering the consumption question....

I'll have the comparison up and running on YouTube Monday arvo.....

No worries.... got the car booked in for the ecu flash sat morning. Gonna be nice and cold too so I'll probably get home in record time, (I'll try not to speed):driver:

BarneyBoy

17-06-2009, 11:06 PM

all i can say is ...... VdUb !!
1.4 tsi is an amazing engine imo.. why can't they just have a 2.0 twincharger version on the GTI :duh:

Apparently over 1.8 litres the reciprocating masses and internal friction deliver diminishing returns. They chose 1.4 litres as many European countries offer significant tax advantages for sub 1.4 engines. But I agree, it's too bad. :frown:

blue_reality

18-06-2009, 08:07 AM

I went with the REVO tune on my MK4 Golf GTI. Certainly sounds like a lot of fun can be had with the 1.4.

Most of you may have seen this but as on topic, here is a link to the process of chipping my VW with dyno runs etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLvvxMCUo5E

PROJET - L

25-06-2009, 01:51 PM

Doesn't the new S3 7speed DSG handle 350Nm?

Is this the same box as the GT and Jetta box?

Guy do you know anything to shed light on this.

I would be alot happier doing a flash on Jetta TSI
knowing that it can take 350Nm.

(BTW I have a Jetta TSI loan car while my Passat in
in for service. All I can say is what a sweet engine:driver:)

Guy_H

25-06-2009, 02:13 PM

Torque control is not an issue on these.

A lot of work has been done on the factory symbiotic mapping between the engine & gearbox torque control.

You would be pretty comfortable to add over 40% to the 350nm figure for a destructive level.

Maverick

25-06-2009, 04:00 PM

Doesn't the new S3 7speed DSG handle 350Nm?

Is this the same box as the GT and Jetta box?

No. It's a completely different gearbox designed for AWD applications that's rated for 550nm.

Volkswagen DSG – 7 Speed Dual Clutch Gearbox (High Output) (http://www.my-gti.com/887)
http://www.my-gti.com/887/volkswagen-dsg-7-speed-dual-clutch-gearbox-high-output

Volkswagen DSG – 7 Speed Dual Clutch Gearbox (http://www.my-gti.com/847)
http://www.my-gti.com/847/volkswagen-dsg-7-speed-dual-clutch-gearbox

Volkswagen DSG – 6 Speed Dual Clutch Gearbox (http://www.my-gti.com/840)
http://www.my-gti.com/840/volkswagen-dsg-6-speed-dual-clutch-gearbox

More info on DSG here (http://www.my-gti.com/category/drivetrain/dsg)
http://www.my-gti.com/category/drivetrain/dsg

benno

25-06-2009, 04:28 PM

Guy_H

25-06-2009, 04:54 PM

It does, but it's not that simple - there are hundreds of intertwined tables.

You will see (from dyno's that can measure torque & drivetrain loss) that a DSG in most cases will transmit almost exactly the same level of torque as a manual car. There are exceptions, but its nothing to worry about.

The Nurburgring Scirocco's ran DSG outputs & APR hardware - on DSG gearboxes in race conditions for 24 hours (and they ran for weeks on engine / drivetrain dynos before that). - Stock DSG mind you!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3855643

AstraOiler

25-06-2009, 06:04 PM

So here it is:

converted GTI (stock is) 197HP and weighs 2948 Lbs
converted TSI (chipped) 202HP and weighs 2882 Lbs

Now for the calculator:

GTI (stock) 1/4 mile in 14.35 secs @ 94.95 miles an hour (152.8 Km/h)
TSI (chipped) 1/4 mile in 14.13 secs @ 96.48 miles an hour (155.43 Km/h)

Theoretically the chipped TSI wins on paper....... BUT ONLY JUST!!!!

Using the calculator i've got:
GTi(stock) 1/4mile is 14.98@94.1mph
TSi (chipped) 1/4 mile is 14.78 @ 95.5mph

Just as another point of reference :)
Checking up round the forum seems the first set of results is closer.

Yevvy

25-06-2009, 06:42 PM

Using the calculator i've got:
GTi(stock) 1/4mile is 14.98@94.1mph
TSi (chipped) 1/4 mile is 14.78 @ 95.5mph

Just as another point of reference :)
Checking up round the forum seems the first set of results is closer.

Can you send a link to a calculator?

benno

25-06-2009, 07:23 PM

PROJET - L

26-06-2009, 09:35 AM

No. It's a completely different gearbox designed for AWD applications that's rated for 550nm.

Volkswagen DSG – 7 Speed Dual Clutch Gearbox (High Output) (http://www.my-gti.com/887)
http://www.my-gti.com/887/volkswagen-dsg-7-speed-dual-clutch-gearbox-high-output

Volkswagen DSG – 7 Speed Dual Clutch Gearbox (http://www.my-gti.com/847)
http://www.my-gti.com/847/volkswagen-dsg-7-speed-dual-clutch-gearbox

Volkswagen DSG – 6 Speed Dual Clutch Gearbox (http://www.my-gti.com/840)
http://www.my-gti.com/840/volkswagen-dsg-6-speed-dual-clutch-gearbox

More info on DSG here (http://www.my-gti.com/category/drivetrain/dsg)
http://www.my-gti.com/category/drivetrain/dsg

Maverick since when did the S3 have a longitudinal engine install?
You are wrong it seems. This isn't the gear box for the S3.
Thanks for the links BTW.

I would assume that the S3 7 speed is a totally different beast.
A variation on the transverse box to include the haldex?

Anyone know about this?

Maverick

26-06-2009, 10:54 AM

Maverick since when did the S3 have a longitudinal engine install?
You are wrong it seems. This isn't the gear box for the S3.
Thanks for the links BTW.

I would assume that the S3 7 speed is a totally different beast.
A variation on the transverse box to include the haldex?

Anyone know about this?

It seems you're unable to read :eek:

Orientation: Longitudinal & Quattro

Volkswagen DSG – 7 Speed Dual Clutch Gearbox (High Output) (http://www.my-gti.com/887)

PROJET - L

26-06-2009, 11:30 AM

Whoa your reputation really does proceed you.

The information you put up only talks about the
seven speed box for quattro and longitudinal installs
it would also specify quattro transverse installs as well
would it not?
I am making the assumption that there are two ratings
on clutch packs and this is where the difference with the
outputs is.

Like I said anyone care to post who KNOWS anything
about this.

smoothcall

26-06-2009, 12:10 PM

It seems you're unable to read :eek:

Orientation: Longitudinal & Quattro

Volkswagen DSG – 7 Speed Dual Clutch Gearbox (High Output) (http://www.my-gti.com/887)

Isn't he asking about the S3 DSG?

Pointing out longitudinal and quattro isn't actually answering his question.

Is the DSG for the S3 the same as the one in the new S4? I didn't think it was

AstraOiler

26-06-2009, 02:29 PM

Can you send a link to a calculator?
Imperial units so weight in pounds and power in HP

Speed at 1/4 mile point = 220 * (HP / Weight) ^.3138
Quarter Mile time = 6.9446 X (weight / HP)^.2841

POLARBEAR666

13-08-2009, 06:30 PM

:troll:

BACK ON TRACK

How are the tunes going?

GTom

13-08-2009, 06:34 PM

:troll:

BACK ON TRACK

How are the tunes going?

HA! I was gonna ask you the same question a few days back lol...

Mines better then ever very fun :driver:

Now the car will be getting new suspension setup :D

POLARBEAR666

14-08-2009, 05:35 PM

What we need is for someone who has the APR tune to go get it dyno'd

An independent dyno won't have any bias issues and they should also be able to put on the chart a GTI's dyno result for comparison if they are a european workshop.

POLARBEAR666

03-09-2009, 10:01 PM

Looking at the USA prices for APR tunes makes me sad =(.

How does $600 us convert into $1800. If it was $600US I would get my twincharger tuned tomorrow as thats about right for a generic tune without even a before and after dyno sheet in my books. :(

Vehicle Application Guide Year Model Engine 91 Octane Stage I 93 Octane Stage I 100 Octane Stage I Price
2005-2008 Audi A3 2.0T FSI 246hp / 282lb-ft 252hp / 303lb-ft 270hp / 322lb-ft $599.00 Buy One Now
2005-2008 Audi TT 2.0T FSI 246hp / 282lb-ft 252hp / 303lb-ft 270hp / 322lb-ft $599.00 Buy One Now
2006-2008 VW GTI 2.0T FSI 246hp / 282lb-ft 252hp / 303lb-ft 270hp / 322lb-ft $599.00 Buy One Now
2005-2008 VW Jetta 2.0T FSI 246hp / 282lb-ft 252hp / 303lb-ft 270hp / 322lb-ft $599.00 Buy One Now
2005-2008 VW GLI 2.0T FSI 246hp / 282lb-ft 252hp / 303lb-ft 270hp / 322lb-ft $599.00 Buy One Now
2006-2008 VW Eos 2.0T FSI 246hp / 282lb-ft 252hp / 303lb-ft 270hp / 322lb-ft $599.00 Buy One Now
2005-2008 VW Passat 2.0T FSI 246hp / 282lb-ft 252hp / 303lb-ft 270hp / 322lb-ft $599.00 Buy One Now

Golf Mark 6

15-10-2009, 12:21 AM

Any update on the APR tuned GT video?

Maverick

15-10-2009, 12:45 AM

Looking at the USA prices for APR tunes makes me sad =(.

How does $600 us convert into $1800. If it was $600US I would get my twincharger tuned tomorrow as thats about right for a generic tune without even a before and after dyno sheet in my books. :(

The Golf GTI is half the price in the USA, that's a $20K saving over the Australian price.

Fuel is a third of the price in the USA.

Homes are cheaper in the USA.

The average wage is lower in the USA.

The USA has less taxes.

The USA has a bigger market, Texas alone sell more Volkswagens in a year than all of Australia.

In other words, comparisons between the USA and Australia are pointless as there are so many variables. Personally $1800 for a ECU flash considering the gains is a reasonable price, on the other hand I'd view buying a $10,000 watch as excessive, a waste of money and so on. Everyone has their own priorities however.

Golf Houso

15-10-2009, 12:59 AM

In other words, comparisons between the USA and Australia are pointless as there are so many variables. Personally $1800 for a ECU flash considering the gains is a reasonable price, on the other hand I'd view buying a $10,000 watch as excessive, a waste of money and so on. Everyone has their own priorities however.

Have to agree there, but can we please keep it back on topic :)

I was going to ask whether anyone with a chipped car has driven a MKVI but then I realised that nobody on here has even put a GTI in drive, let alone drive in :duh:

Guy_H

15-10-2009, 09:31 AM

If driven several new GTI MKVI's

They are awesome, I have driven Stage 1 & stage 3 cars (In Japan & the US).

Stage 3 with 380+ HP is pretty nice!

They are a nice upgrade over the MKV.

Pics of the ones we drove are here:

http://www.ozvolks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=751

POLARBEAR666

16-10-2009, 12:21 AM

The Golf GTI is half the price in the USA, that's a $20K saving over the Australian price.

Fuel is a third of the price in the USA.

Homes are cheaper in the USA.

The average wage is lower in the USA.

The USA has less taxes.

The USA has a bigger market, Texas alone sell more Volkswagens in a year than all of Australia.

In other words, comparisons between the USA and Australia are pointless as there are so many variables. Personally $1800 for a ECU flash considering the gains is a reasonable price, on the other hand I'd view buying a $10,000 watch as excessive, a waste of money and so on. Everyone has their own priorities however.

All of the stuff you just mentioned is to do with government regulation and market size. Fuel is cheaper as the USA gov artificially keeps it low etc etc. Cars are more expensive here due to small market size and HUGE taxes.

I don't see any government regulation that causes a variance in the ECU flash price. ECU flash's are almost identical world wide so APR can't use the market size argument.. the market is global with hardly any changes needed to adapt to each market.

$1800 is the price for about 6-10 hours of custom mapping on a dyno with a wide band lambda probe and a really good tuner.

So please forgive me for being unimpressed at a generic flashmap getting peddled for $1800 cold.

pologti18t

16-10-2009, 12:02 PM

Fuel is cheaper as the USA gov artificially keeps it low etc etc.

Correction... it's because they tax it at a much lower rate than we do.

G-rig

11-01-2010, 07:46 PM

$1800 is the price for about 6-10 hours of custom mapping on a dyno with a wide band lambda probe and a really good tuner.

So please forgive me for being unimpressed at a generic flashmap getting peddled for $1800 cold.

How many hours did you spend scrapping the sound deadening off with your fingernails, that would have been 6-10 hours alone and made stuff all difference (except a noisier cabin).