Tuning / performance update

[clip]

Just an update on what's been happening with my Tig - for those that are interested.

Had the Tig at Harding's Performance for the new APR tuning maps and torque arm insert.

All I can say is the APR software is bloody great. I have 4 main modes now,
(most of which I will probably not use very often, but still nice to have):
1. standard OEM map (125kW, 280Nm)
2. 98ron map (189kW, 410Nm) - now my "standard map"
3. valet mode - restricts the engine to about 4300rpm max (great for when my lead-foot sister-in-law drives it :biggrin:).
4. security mode - car will start, but no accelerator/throttle control, car will only idle).

Thing that blows me away with all this is that it all works seamlessly with the car's systems and is fully integrated with existing controls. It could easily be a factory option.

As I've said before, the improved performance is just sensational - especially the torque. It's simply awesome and shows on the road in very practical day to day driving.

The torque arm insert has also made a big difference IMO - (crisper gear changes and much improved clutch take-up even on standard power setting).

I love it when things just "work". :)

[Tigga1]

thanks for your update.
As you know, I am also seriously considering the APR tune, and will be contacting Guy H on my trip down south.
I also considered the torque arm insert, as I found it great on my MKV DSG Golf, just not sure if it will make much of a difference on the auto Tig, any thoughts?
The other one that I am considering, is the Haldex gearbox upgrade, which provides a more "sporty" spread of torque front/rear...
thank you also for following up on the wheel offset for 18" & 19"s ;-]
cheers
Tigga

[bxpressiv]

Forgive me for not knowing much at all but from my limited research on APR chips I was just wondering:

For example with program 2 to get those benefits the tradeoff is fuel efficiency for example? If anyone could tell me what it's all about in laymans terms and how much it costs I would be much appreciated...

[Arctra]

Those figures are impressive gains man! I see that you have a 125kW Manual though. I have struggle seeing whether there's anything like that for the TDI's though. Do you know if there is?

I guess my main concern with getting this sort of remapping done is the extra strain it puts on the drive train. Especially with an auto box like I have. As I understand it they de-tune the TDI's somewhat for the auto box as compared with their manual bretheren. Any comments on this?

[clip]

Sorry I can't comment on the TDI's Arctra, other than I know there are remaps for them.
Best thing to do would be speak with Hardings I guess.

bxpressiv - yes there is trade off with fuel economy. If this is a concern for you, the huge benefit of this system, as I see it, is the ability to switch between modes. So in real world terms, you could switch it to mode 1 standard setting which would give you maximum potential for fuel economy when commuting sensibly around town. But then going for a run down the highway, you could set it to mode 2- which I've found actually slightly increases my economy on the open stretches, but also adds the advantage of vastly improved overtaking and hill climbing performance.

Of course if you want a spirited run up through the ranges or quick runs around town etc, leaving it in mode 2 will chew up more fuel but also leave you grinning like an idiot at the end of it!

So as I see it, you have the best of all worlds. But be warned, once you've run it on the performance map, it is very hard to change it back to standard! And, at the end of the day, I'm more than happy to live with the combined average of 9.8 that I'm getting out of the Tig now given it's performance. But this question comes up a lot, so when I get a few minutes I'll do up some comparisons, should be interesting.

As for costs, mine was negotiated in the purchase price of the car, so I can't give you an exact amount of what it cost me sorry. But I think Harding's have prices up on their web site now.

[bxpressiv]

Sounds pretty good to me. Definitely worth investigating further me thinks...

[Pullstarter]

I'm definitely going the APR route also, can't wait for that extra power, just gotta save up for it now :( Pretty sure its $1995 for two programs (i.e. stock and 189kw)

Arctra; there is an APR remap for your TDI, peak power is 125kw not sure on the torque increase though, should be on their website I imagine. Don't be at all worried about the auto box, pretty sure it's the same box that's in the 147 so it can take a lot more than the TDI will put out.

[Paragon]

sorry for the noobness but what exactly is a torque arm insert or even a torque arm for that matter?

[Sharkie]

APR does not do any TDI maps, however their "sister" company Oettinger does. Same company to deal with in Australia, so give APR a call and tell them you want the TDI chip ... :duh:


Actually at constant speeds and "normal" usage a chip actually improves fuel consumption by up to 10% ..... its only when you really start using all that extra power that the fuel consumption dramatically increases.

on my GTI I got std consumption of 6.2l/100km whilst cruising (@115km/h) and with APR 5.7l/100km. Seen the opposite extreme at the track of 29l/100km as well though.

I highly recommend anyone considering a chip to go and visit an APR dealer and have a trial installed to do a test to see if you like it. I have never heard of anybody who has trialled that did not eventually have it chipped ......... it really transforms the character of the car .... :biggrin:

[Sharkie]

sorry for the noobness but what exactly is a torque arm insert or even a torque arm for that matter?

I can't explain in exact tech detail, but here is my view of it. At the back of your gearbox there is a stubby link to the chassis intended to prevent engine movement under accelleration. It is similar to the engine mounts in some respects.

As standard it is mounted in a circular rubber mount (enclosed by a metal ring) and bolted to the gearbox. The std rubber mount is quite soft and allows a lot of movement which contributes to what is called driveline shunt..... a lot ....

The torque arm insert replaces this rubber inner mount with a plasticky silicone like material that is much stiffer. It allows for far less movement of the drivetrain under accelleration and provides a much crisper feel to gear changing. Shunt is greatly reduced .... it does however introduce a bit more vibration so is not to everyone's tastes.

I highly recommend it (had it on the GTI), but make your own decision between very slight reduced comfort and greatly improved gearshifting (auto and manual) as well as improved power down on the road.

Have a look here for more info:
http://www.goapr.com.au/products/engine_mount_insert.html

BTW, a number of companies produce these ..... also APR's Tiguan inserts are on order and should be in Aus in about 3 weeks. (Ive asked :))

[Pullstarter]

APR does not do any TDI maps, however their "sister" company Oettinger does. Same company to deal with in Australia, so give APR a call and tell them you want the TDI chip ... :duh:




Sorry, brain fart :biggrin: I knew someone did one.

[clip]

sorry for the noobness but what exactly is a torque arm insert or even a torque arm for that matter?
sharkies spot on, only difference with the Tig is that the rubber mount itself is not solid, it has holes in it to further increase it's ability to absorb vibrations etc. what the insert does is fill up those holes, so in effect you now have a solid rubber mount. It takes 2 minutes to install, just one bolt, insert the "insert" bolt back in, away you go.

I've only noticed a slight increase in vibration at idle only (mainly felt through the steering wheel), and the improved driveability far outweighs that (and no one else notices it!).

[Sharkie]

So the prototype I saw at APR went into your Tig then clip? :biggrin::biggrin:

[Paragon]

lol so then really a torque arm in VW speak is what everyone else refers to as a gearbox mount and the insert is just a firmer version of the rubber VW standard one.

Yes it would be easier to install but really I would imagine if you wanted the shifts to be smoother then firmer engine mounts would be the way to go as they would allow for less engine movement esp at higher revs so that your gearbox can engage more precisely. Having said that, I have an auto box so meh :duh:

[dogbowl]

These chips sound awesome. I have two questions:

1. Can the chassis handle such power?
2. What happens to your VW warranty?

Thanks for your assistance.

[Pullstarter]

These chips sound awesome. I have two questions:

1. Can the chassis handle such power?
2. What happens to your VW warranty?

Thanks for your assistance.

Chassis and drivetrain easily handles the power, remember our gearbox is the same as a GTI box and the drivetrain is the same as an R32 so they can cope with a LOT more than we can throw at it.

With your warranty it will basically void the warranty on your ECU ONLY (so I'm led to believe from the dealer), that's if the VW techs actually discover it which is unlikely, not impossible but unlikely. If you get your car serviced at a specialist rather than a dealer, such as I do, and only take your Tig to the dealer for warranty issues it would be even more unlikely that they would discover it. It is a risk yes, but for me the benefit far outweighs that. It is obviously your choice to weigh up the pros and cons though. :)

[dogbowl]

Interesting, thank you.

[Azzamataz]

I didnt think its the same gearbox as the gti. the gti has the dsg gearbox.

Also, i believe if VW found it, they would void warranty not only on the ECU, but everything that is affected by the power increase, gear box, entire engine, suspension etc.

All in all, ive chipped up my old xr6t to over 300rwkw and dealer never knew. Until my gearbox blew up ;)

[Pullstarter]

I didnt think its the same gearbox as the gti. the gti has the dsg gearbox.

Also, i believe if VW found it, they would void warranty not only on the ECU, but everything that is affected by the power increase, gear box, entire engine, suspension etc.

All in all, ive chipped up my old xr6t to over 300rwkw and dealer never knew. Until my gearbox blew up ;)

DSG is an option on the GTI, it comes with a manual box standard.

[NZTiguan]

I didnt think its the same gearbox as the gti. the gti has the dsg gearbox.

Also, i believe if VW found it, they would void warranty not only on the ECU, but everything that is affected by the power increase, gear box, entire engine, suspension etc.

All in all, ive chipped up my old xr6t to over 300rwkw and dealer never knew. Until my gearbox blew up ;)

In NZ the new Mk6 Golf has the DSG standard (as the auto) EXCEPT for the diesel which has the same box as the Tiguan, supposedly something to do with the Torque issue, though that seems strange based on some of the vehicles that have the DSG now !!

Cheers

[Pullstarter]

In NZ the new Mk6 Golf has the DSG standard (as the auto) EXCEPT for the diesel which has the same box as the Tiguan, supposedly something to do with the Torque issue, though that seems strange based on some of the vehicles that have the DSG now !!

Cheers

That does seem strange considering the DSG is standard on the Pirelli GTI which has around the same torque as the diesel, only 20nm difference.

[NZTiguan]

That does seem strange considering the DSG is standard on the Pirelli GTI which has around the same torque as the diesel, only 20nm difference.

The only thing I can guess is that it's the fact that the diesel's torque comes in at much lower revs, but it does seem odd !!

Cheers

[Pullstarter]

So the only auto option on the TDI golf VI is the 6 speed auto rather than the DSG in NZ? Just checking here and they offer it in DSG, only the 6spd though not the 7 spd.

[clip]

how did we get back onto diesels again? :)

[NZTiguan]

So the only auto option on the TDI golf VI is the 6 speed auto rather than the DSG in NZ? Just checking here and they offer it in DSG, only the 6spd though not the 7 spd.

Are you positive of that ? I may be wrong but I was certain I read somewhere that all the Ausi and NZ ones ONLY have 6 speed non-DSG with the Diesel.

Cheers

Update: Just checked the NZ site and you're right, it's 6 speed DSG on the 103TDi Golf IV. Wonder why 6 speed instead of 7 ? guess it just doesn't "need" 7 BUT you'd think it would be cheaper to keep them all the same wouldn't you ??

Cheers

[Pullstarter]

Are you positive of that ? I may be wrong but I was certain I read somewhere that all the Ausi and NZ ones ONLY have 6 speed non-DSG with the Diesel.

Cheers

Update: Just checked the NZ site and you're right, it's 6 speed DSG on the 103TDi Golf IV. Wonder why 6 speed instead of 7 ? guess it just doesn't "need" 7 BUT you'd think it would be cheaper to keep them all the same wouldn't you ??

Cheers

I do remember reading somewhere that the hi torque/output motors (TDI and petrol GTI etc) were only going to use the 6spd, maybe the 7spd is a bit of an unkown quantity as yet?

[clip]

So the prototype I saw at APR went into your Tig then clip? :biggrin::biggrin:
thought I'd better snavel it before you did! :biggrin: Can't tell you what a difference it makes, this is a must-have along with the chip.

[golfyvic]

Just an update on what's been happening with my Tig - for those that are interested.

Had the Tig at Harding's Performance for the new APR tuning maps and torque arm insert.

All I can say is the APR software is bloody great. I have 4 main modes now,
(most of which I will probably not use very often, but still nice to have):
1. standard OEM map (125kW, 280Nm)
2. 98ron map (189kW, 410Nm) - now my "standard map"
3. valet mode - restricts the engine to about 4300rpm max (great for when my lead-foot sister-in-law drives it :biggrin:).
4. security mode - car will start, but no accelerator/throttle control, car will only idle).

Thing that blows me away with all this is that it all works seamlessly with the car's systems and is fully integrated with existing controls. It could easily be a factory option.

As I've said before, the improved performance is just sensational - especially the torque. It's simply awesome and shows on the road in very practical day to day driving.

The torque arm insert has also made a big difference IMO - (crisper gear changes and much improved clutch take-up even on standard power setting).

I love it when things just "work". :)

Hi,

Went to see Volkspower in Burwood (Vic), who sell the APR ECU flashes. Dean there gave me the 6 hr trial.... makes a monumental difference!!! Will definately be getting it, (the standard 2 program option). If I purchase before June 30, I get a 10% discount.

Anyone thinking of getting the ECU flash for their GT Sport, they can now get one through APR. The technology has only been out a week for the GT's and apparently I'll be the third GT in the country to have it, (that's what the guy told me anyway).

See Dean at Volkspower in Burwood, very professional and informative, and I highly recomend them...

BTW: He advised APR are currently developing an Exhaust for the GT's, but aren't out yet. He said be careful as there are a lot of places that will sell you an exhaust, but will have no significant power gain. He knows a bloke that spent $4K on an exhaust, for a 4kw power gain. He said once the APR exhaust comes out, they'll have special exhaust ECU upgrade that will complement the exhaust...:driver:

[clip]

He knows a bloke that spent $4K on an exhaust, for a 4kw power gain. He said once the APR exhaust comes out, they'll have special exhaust ECU upgrade that will complement the exhaust...:driver:
Nice having someone that knows what they're doing isn't it. Not holding my breath for a Tig one just yet though.

[Sharkie]

Nice having someone that knows what they're doing isn't it. Not holding my breath for a Tig one just yet though.

APR exhaust and remap specific for it on the Golf GTI delivers 11kw extra.

I volunteered my Tig to take the prototype .....

That said, some other exhaust specialists can do good work. On my GTI I went elsewhere for a custom downpipe and cat and it made 11+kw atw difference.

[clip]

I volunteered my Tig to take the prototype .....

That said, some other exhaust specialists can do good work. On my GTI I went elsewhere for a custom downpipe and cat and it made 11+kw atw difference.
I think we need to get together sharkie! :biggrin:

[Sharkie]

My H&R sport springs arrived :biggrin:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/06/Tig_Stuff2-1.jpg

[team_v]

Looks good Sharkie.
Those RS4's will look ace on the tig, especially when its sitting on the new H&R springs.

[clip]

Sharkie, you don't need those springs yet do you? How about lending them to a fellow tig owner??? :)

[Pullstarter]

See my thread for the end result Sharkie :) Looks like the ET42 rims will probably work too, i must have been extra paranoid that day :duh:

[Sharkie]

See my thread for the end result Sharkie :) Looks like the ET42 rims will probably work too, i must have been extra paranoid that day :duh:

LOL ... I was replying to your thread when you did this. Looks promising doesn't it.


Sharkie, you don't need those springs yet do you? How about lending them to a fellow tig owner??? :)

John, I'd normally have no problem with that .... :) ... BUT .. on hearing from Simon, I figure I won't get them back from you afterwards ... :biggrin:

Time to order some more in from GTI_Dave methinks ..... he's been good to deal with and the price was excellent.

[clip]

Time to order some more in from GTI_Dave methinks ..... he's been good to deal with and the price was excellent.
:biggrin: He can expect a phone call tomorrow! :biggrin:

[qsilverza]

I saw a Tig with some RS4's on this weekend gone by. Looked gooood.

[DieselTig]

Hi,

Two weeks ago I ordered a Diesel Tiguan and want to find out if anyone with same vehicle has reprogrammed the chip for greater performance and fuel economy. If so, what were the results.

[Pullstarter]

I think Oettinger does the 103TDI chip, have a look on their website, from memory it goes up to 125kw but not sure about torque.

[DieselTig]

I will give it a go and see what I can find.
Thanks

[Sharkie]

Speak to Guy at Harding Performance .......

http://www.hp.net.au/



Oettinger Tig TDI info

http://www.oettinger.de/en/products-86/volkswagen-1/tiguan-54/engine_tuning-1.html

103kw/320NM => 125kw/370NM

[DieselTig]

Speak to Guy at Harding Performance .......

http://www.hp.net.au/



Oettinger Tig TDI info

http://www.oettinger.de/en/products-86/volkswagen-1/tiguan-54/engine_tuning-1.html

103kw/320NM => 125kw/370NM
Thanks Sharkie. that looks more like it.
I need to find someone in Melbourne that I can take the vehicle and do it.
I spoke to volkspower in Melbourne but they are very priceyyyy @ $1800 to flash the eprom considering it only takes 20 minutes to do.
I also spoke to Audi Spares and they are @ $950 but he doesnt know yet if GIAC have a flash for it yet.

Keep you posted.

[Sharkie]

Speak to Guy for some more details. The Oettinger reflash includes a full drivetrain warranty which the others don't. To cut costs I believe you can opt out of that though.

Revo and GIAC don't do diesels I believe, neither does APR.

Other options are DPChip for instance

http://www.dpchip.com.au/ these are plugins though and I have some reservations about that ...... it does have some good write ups and are around $1200 I believe.

Tiguan 103kw/320NM => 124kw/368NM

[DieselTig]

Speak to Guy for some more details. The Oettinger reflash includes a full drivetrain warranty which the others don't. To cut costs I believe you can opt out of that though.

Revo and GIAC don't do diesels I believe, neither does APR.

Other options are DPChip for instance

http://www.dpchip.com.au/ these are plugins though and I have some reservations about that ...... it does have some good write ups and are around $1200 I believe.

Tiguan 103kw/320NM => 124kw/368NM
I like the idea of full drivetrain warranty and I guess the costs become less of an issue then. I will be in touch with Guy today to discuss this further.

thanx sharkie.

[DieselTig]

Spoke to HP and this can be done here in Melbourne and the result is 125kw and 370nm. I have though seen around quotes for increase in power and torque to about 30% and this is nowhere near it. I would expect around 400 newtons and at least 130kw.
I will continue researching, I am pretty new to turbo diesels and have a lot to learn.

[Arctra]

Hey DieselTig, in your investigations would you mind asking whether the TDI auto box is the same as the 147's auto box? If they are different, then you may want to investigate whether the box can handle it. I recall reading somewhere that the TDI engine was specifically de-tuned a bit to prevent the auto box from overheating.

I'm not trying to scare monger here. I am interested in getting the tune done too, but not at the expense of my transmission. It's nice that Oettinger offer a warranty on the drivetrain, but as with all warranties it is for a finite period after which the box longevity is unknown. This is a concern for me as I intend keeping my Tig for quite a while. Maybe one of the tuners can weigh in on this topic?

[NZTiguan]

Hey DieselTig, in your investigations would you mind asking whether the TDI auto box is the same as the 147's auto box? If they are different, then you may want to investigate whether the box can handle it. I recall reading somewhere that the TDI engine was specifically de-tuned a bit to prevent the auto box from overheating.

I'm not trying to scare monger here. I am interested in getting the tune done too, but not at the expense of my transmission. It's nice that Oettinger offer a warranty on the drivetrain, but as with all warranties it is for a finite period after which the box longevity is unknown. This is a concern for me as I intend keeping my Tig for quite a while. Maybe one of the tuners can weigh in on this topic?

Remember that in Europe they're already putting 125kw 350nm through the tiptronic box in the 125kw diesel. I understand there's been an issue about the "manual transmission" coping with the torque but NOT the auto. One of the GB guys had his diesel manual Tig replaced with an auto cos he did a lot of towing and it wasn't handling it too well. This was in the early days of Tig though !!

Cheers

[DieselTig]

Now that you have mentioned whether the auto can handle extra newtons, I will investigate this. On the subject of warranty you are right, it has nothing to do with the longivity of the drivetrain. I know for a fact that Xtrail auto is detuned because the auto cannot handle the extra torque and power, so I will look into this and keep you posted.

[DieselTig]

I have been doing a bit of research on net sure enough the 125kw diesel in europe is only offered in manual box. Obviously the extra torque maybe too much for the tiptronic. For ARCTRA's question about the 147 box, I have made some inquiries and yes it is the same as the diesel. But the 147 produces only 280 newtons in comparison to the 320 the diesel produces. So the petrol has more power but at less torque than the diesel.
I am now starting to have second thoughts about the retuning, it maybe beyond the tiptronic's capabilities. I guess I would do this if I get the ok from someone within VW confirming the max torque design specifications of this box. Reseach continues..........

[Pullstarter]

Ask Guy about your tranny concerns, he usually knows all regarding that kind of thing :)

[DieselTig]

I will do that next Monday. Thanks for the advice.

[Arctra]

I have been doing a bit of research on net sure enough the 125kw diesel in europe is only offered in manual box. Obviously the extra torque maybe too much for the tiptronic. For ARCTRA's question about the 147 box, I have made some inquiries and yes it is the same as the diesel. But the 147 produces only 280 newtons in comparison to the 320 the diesel produces. So the petrol has more power but at less torque than the diesel.
I am now starting to have second thoughts about the retuning, it maybe beyond the tiptronic's capabilities. I guess I would do this if I get the ok from someone within VW confirming the max torque design specifications of this box. Reseach continues..........

Sorry if I burst your bubble mate. :frown: But if you're anything like me, you'd rather look after your Tig and keep on keeping on :driver:

The way I'm looking at it, is at least let my Tig get out of its manufacturer warranty, by which time the early adopters will have a better idea of how well the box can handle it. If the box handles it fine, then I'll go ahead and get it done to bring the performance in line with what the flavour of the day is. If it's not handling the tuning so well, then at least I'll have no regrets.

[DieselTig]

I agree with you on this, until there is real evidence of the changes not affecting the reliability of the transmission then I will be happy to experiement, but not on a car new straight out of the box.
Besides, once you have done the change you will get used to improvement and you are back to same situtation, asking yourself can I get more improvements. What I am saying is how much is enough, and being humans as we are, cannot be satisfied with anything.
So, I look at it this way, if the car is delivering what it was designed for, then anymore is a bonus.

So, I will still be on this forum and putting forward my point of view on different aspects of the vehicle. I guess after driving real offroaders for years (hilux crew cab) this is more of a step back 4wd ability but again each vehicle has its uses.

[Sharkie]

Spoke to HP and this can be done here in Melbourne and the result is 125kw and 370nm. I have though seen around quotes for increase in power and torque to about 30% and this is nowhere near it. I would expect around 400 newtons and at least 130kw.
I will continue researching, I am pretty new to turbo diesels and have a lot to learn.

I've yet to see anybody reliably offer more than 125kw/370NM from the 103kw TDI. If you have anymore info on who does this, post it up so we can have a look. :)

[DieselTig]

I have been doing a fair bit of research lately and found out that 125kw/370NM is pretty much the extend you can go without doing mechanical changes to the engine. But there were two places where they said that they can get 130kw/410nm reliably. These places were www.audeespares.com.au and www.turboengineering.com.au both in Melbourne. The turbo engineering place they also have 4wd dynamometer and can actually confirm the output. They (Turbo Engineering) also commented that getting extra power is not difficult but the engine cannot sustain it under continuous load and the exhaust temperatures will go beyond the ~600C allowable limit. There were other technical terms they threw at me but I am not a Mechanical Engineer (Electrical Engineering backround) and was not easy to understand. Hope this sheds some light on remapping the diesels.

[Arctra]

Thanks for that. Was there any mention of the gearbox though?

As I've said before, that's my concern. If there was a way of monitoring the gearbox temp and fluid pressures then I might be tempted to do the chipping earlier, and rely on my monitoring of the temps/pressures to prevent damage to the box, then I might be tempted to chip sooner rather than later.

So does this mean you are a step closer to taking the plunge?

[DieselTig]

These guys including Guy said that the Tiptronic has no issues with extra torque.
I need to get delivery of my Tig and then I will take the plunge myself. I like the 400Nm, my sister has a BMW X5 diesel twin turbo and that punches around 500Nm+ and it is awsome to have you pinned to the seat during acceleration. Having flat torque curve you also get this pulling power nearly all the time. Cant wait.

[Sharkie]

I need to get delivery of my Tig and then I will take the plunge myself. I like the 400Nm, my sister has a BMW X5 diesel twin turbo and that punches around 500Nm+ and it is awsome to have you pinned to the seat during acceleration. Having flat torque curve you also get this pulling power nearly all the time. Cant wait.

Unfortunately if you wanted pinned to the seat acceleration you should have ordered a Tiguan (any 1 would do) with the 2.0TSI motor. With tuning you would have had more than 400Nm and a 4500rmin wide powerband instead of the 2000rmin of the diesel.

The diesel Tig serves a different purpose as it should.

I'm also wary of custom tuning houses such as those mentioned as I have gone down that route before and would not recommend it. There is no way a small workshop can throw the same resources at a tuning solution as the big players in the market. APR/Oettinger/Revo etc do hundreds of hours of work & research on a single upgrade to ensure reliability and performance.

[DieselTig]

I prefer the diesel for economy and like the torque down low which is good when the car is loaded and up the hills. I am not a fun of pertrol turbo's and not into speeding either. I find the turbo diesel smoother and besides, my wife will be doing most of the driving, I will still be driving around in the Xtrail.
I have done lots of test drives of the 147TSI and the TDi and my preference was clearly diesel.

[Sharkie]

I prefer the diesel for economy and like the torque down low which is good when the car is loaded and up the hills.

Which is fine and exactly the purpose of the TDi Tiguan. Just don't expect a chip (any chip) to transform its performance into pinned to the seat acceleration, its not meant to do that. :)

[DieselTig]

Understand that, otherwise I should get the V10 twin Turbo Tuareg.
Also, on the subject of remapping, I will most likely be going with Oettinger,they have a history of working with the German vehicles and invest a lot of time and money as mentioned.

[clip]

Unfortunately if you wanted pinned to the seat acceleration you should have ordered a Tiguan (any 1 would do) with the 2.0TSI motor. With tuning you would have had more than 400Nm and a 4500rmin wide powerband instead of the 2000rmin of the diesel.
It's interesting that diesels are thought of as torque monsters in today's world of engine development. Sure there are easy comparisons around and VW, in particular, pitch major marketing $$$ on just that.

A bit like the common misconception with sports bikes - vtwins inheritantly have more torque than in-line 4's of the same capacity. I don't think so.

[Arctra]

Guys, before chipping your Tig you might want to read a post by a JJJ on the MyTiguan forums that responded to Clip's post on those forums about chipping:

http://www.mytiguan.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6056

There is a lot more to consider than just the engines ability to handle the shipping as you'll see in that post. In fact, there's not just the gearbox on top of that to consider either. It's the ENTIRE drive train you need to consider, in conjunction with how you intend to use your Tig. Granted, JJJ probably puts his Tig through more 4x4 tracks than all Tig owners on this forum combined, so we may not subject our Tigs to having to put all torque through just one wheel, but you may learn a thing or two from his post.

[DieselTig]

Guys, before chipping your Tig you might want to read a post by a JJJ on the MyTiguan forums that responded to Clip's post on those forums about chipping:

http://www.mytiguan.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6056

There is a lot more to consider than just the engines ability to handle the shipping as you'll see in that post. In fact, there's not just the gearbox on top of that to consider either. It's the ENTIRE drive train you need to consider, in conjunction with how you intend to use your Tig. Granted, JJJ probably puts his Tig through more 4x4 tracks than all Tig owners on this forum combined, so we may not subject our Tigs to having to put all torque through just one wheel, but you may learn a thing or two from his post.

Arctra, interesting post. This explains that the majority of remaps I have come across including Oettinger only go upto 370Nm which is a modest 13% increase and below the maximum Aisin TF-80SC Tiptronic torque of 440Nm. This gives enough safety margin for the Tiptronic. Good find.

[clip]

Guys, before chipping your Tig you might want to read a post by a JJJ on the MyTiguan forums that responded to Clip's post on those forums about chipping:

http://www.mytiguan.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6056

There is a lot more to consider than just the engines ability to handle the shipping as you'll see in that post. In fact, there's not just the gearbox on top of that to consider either. It's the ENTIRE drive train you need to consider, in conjunction with how you intend to use your Tig. Granted, JJJ probably puts his Tig through more 4x4 tracks than all Tig owners on this forum combined, so we may not subject our Tigs to having to put all torque through just one wheel, but you may learn a thing or two from his post.
oh please Arctra... for love of whoever, Tig's are not, never will be (in their current form anyway) anything remotely near a 4WD. If you're going to subject your Tig to that, then good luck - even in stock trim - and especially if you've got a sludge box (interestingly, JJJ seems to also assume that we all have auto's).

"But don’t now not chip your engine on account of me. I would recommend asking your chipper of choice – innocently – what the maximum torque is that the transmission can handle, and if he stares at you blankly, you’ll know what to do." (JJJ)

Precisely why I approached Hardings Performance for their opinion and collective knowledge (Oettinger and APR).

"The concern for most people considering chipping seems to be the reliability of the engine, and if it fails, the warranty implication. The general consensus is that it is probably safer to chip a diesel engine due to its lower revving nature and the fact that is has been designed to run at very high compression ratios, so it should be robust enough, providing the extra power is used sensibly."

I have no idea where JJJ gets that "general consensus" from. I think he is actually completely misinformed on this - talking out of his arse and really not based on anything other than his arguably misinformed opinion. Besides, I don't know anyone that seriously chips their diesel for performance. I mean, why bother? It's never going to amount to anything in comparison.

"And this is where the argument fails - the longevity of the engine is unfortunately not the half of it."

What argument JJJ? Hello? But you're probably right, in this respect - I chip my diesel or petrol Tig and then try and turn it into a landcruiser, discovery etc. Blown gearbox, diff, driveshafts etc - I deserve everything I get.

But then at the end of the day please, please don't chip them. In fact, anyone reading this forum and wondering whether or not to make a Tig purchase, please think twice. There's really lots of other good cars out there.

[clip]

.. Oettinger only go upto 370Nm which is a modest 13% increase and below the maximum Aisin TF-80SC Tiptronic torque of 440Nm. This gives enough safety margin for the Tiptronic.
Sorry, but why is 370 a good safety margin? I would have thought 435Nm was a good safety margin, still 40Nm less than maximum. It's not like the engine is going to peak up over 440 or anything. Technically, it should be good right up to 440Nm without any problems. If pushing over that, then I would consider a valid failure, but nothing less.

[Pullstarter]

There's some really serious bull***** going on here!! Have all these anti-chip people forgotten that the drivetrain in our petrol Tigs is the EXACT same drivetrain hardware used in the R32?!?!?!?! Do you hear of any of them blowing gearboxes or diffs etc?? They have standard 184kw and handle it with ease and I dare say people drive R32s a damn sight harder than we drive our Tigs!

As Clip says, if you want a hardcore 4wd you would NEVER buy an SUV, you'd get a Landcruiser/Patrol/Pajero etc

I think a lot of people here need to realise that different people want different things from their cars, if you're worried about chipping DON'T DO IT. If you've done your homework and are prepared to take the VERY small risk that something may go wrong with the car as a result of chipping then you go in with full knowledge of this.

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE AN END TO ALL OF THIS NOW, PLEASE?!?!?!

[Sanman]

Sorry, but why is 370 a good safety margin? I would have thought 435Nm was a good safety margin, still 40Nm less than maximum. It's not like the engine is going to peak up over 440 or anything. Technically, it should be good right up to 440Nm without any problems. If pushing over that, then I would consider a valid failure, but nothing less.
It's not black-and-white - the closer you get to the limit, the more likely it is to fail. You can exceed the maximum, if you treat it gently, you can get away with it. But there's alway's a price. Higher torque in a similar model is only a guide, as there are different cooling issues, extra weight causes additional stress. That's why they test. The manufacturers limit things to where the most mechanically unsympathetic drivers drive - its a warranty claim issue, and big mechanical things are expensive. So they limit things for you. Remember, if the manufacturer could get 33% more power for "free" they would.

[smipx013]

Remember that in Europe they're already putting 125kw 350nm through the tiptronic box in the 125kw diesel. I understand there's been an issue about the "manual transmission" coping with the torque but NOT the auto. One of the GB guys had his diesel manual Tig replaced with an auto cos he did a lot of towing and it wasn't handling it too well. This was in the early days of Tig though !!

Cheers

Just to clarify.

In europe (UK at least) you can get the 140ps 2.0 TDi in auto/tip and in manual variants but the 170ps variant is manual only. It's the other way around to what you said. I have the auto 140ps but wanted a 170ps auto. It does not exist and VW told me they knew of no plans to implement. You can confirm this by using the website http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/tiguan/ and configuring one. If you want auto then you are stuck with 140ps (103Kw) or the petrol 200ps TSi.

I then purchased a bluefin ECU device from a company called superchips.co.uk and they told me they could not tune my 2010 model Tig yet because the ECU is the new 2010 Bosch unit with anti-tuning and it had not been cracked by their development team yet. They reckon to have it cracked by the end of the year. Superchips have 25 years of ECU mod experience and are the official tuning partner for Volkswagen Racing UK.

cheers,

Paul (from UK)

[Pullstarter]

Smip is correct, the internals of the Tig manual (apart from the ratios) are the same as the R32, therefore strong as buggery.

[Pullstarter]

Remember, if the manufacturer could get 33% more power for "free" they would.

What a load of BS!! They DO get it for free!! The Tig 125 and 147 are IDENTICAL apart from software. They do this so they can make more MONEY!! It's the same with 103 and 125 TDI, identical engines just different software, more power=more expensive and it doesn't cost the manufacturer a cent! Just a different software profile. Sorry for going off guys but there really is some serious amounts of misinformation going on here!!

[DieselTig]

What a load of BS!! They DO get it for free!! The Tig 125 and 147 are IDENTICAL apart from software. They do this so they can make more MONEY!! It's the same with 103 and 125 TDI, identical engines just different software, more power=more expensive and it doesn't cost the manufacturer a cent! Just a different software profile. Sorry for going off guys but there really is some serious amounts of misinformation going on here!!

Bottom line is that there are reputable companies out there that offer the remaping with modest increases in power and torque and we have the choice to use them or not. My choice is to go with Oettinger when I get around to it. The risk is minimum unless the Tig goes thru some crazy terrain exercises which I am not going to do anyway, my Xtrail does some of that.

[Transporter]

What a load of BS!! They DO get it for free!! The Tig 125 and 147 are IDENTICAL apart from software. They do this so they can make more MONEY!! It's the same with 103 and 125 TDI, identical engines just different software, more power=more expensive and it doesn't cost the manufacturer a cent! Just a different software profile. Sorry for going off guys but there really is some serious amounts of misinformation going on here!!


Indeed. Because 103TDI and 125TDI are internally different.
More power=more heath, so VW revised the 125TDI engine to handle that extra power and the heat. Different pistons, conrods, cylinder head and the head gasket just to name a few. ;)

[Arctra]

There's some really serious bull***** going on here!! Have all these anti-chip people forgotten that the drivetrain in our petrol Tigs is the EXACT same drivetrain hardware used in the R32?!?!?!?!

Hey Pullstarter.

It's great that you're passionate about your chipping and comfortable with your Tigs ability to handle it. I am a risk averse type that likes to make an informed decision. I'm not anti-chipping, not at all, because I am actually very interested in getting it done. But I would like to get some assurance that I'm not unnecessarily puitting the longevity of my Tig at risk.

Far from being BS, there is some valid information and arguments going on here. Just because a piece of info doesn't match your exact circumstance doesn't mean it's BS... it's just not relevant to your situation.


Do you hear of any of them blowing gearboxes or diffs etc?? They have standard 184kw and handle it with ease and I dare say people drive R32s a damn sight harder than we drive our Tigs!

To be honest, I wasn't aware that the Tigs drivetrain is "exactly" the same as the R32's. Is the Tigs weight the same? Does the R32 come with a Tiptronic box like mine? What's teh max torque of the R32 compared with my TDI? All of those variables factor into whether the increased power from the chipping can be handled by the Tig or not.


As Clip says, if you want a hardcore 4wd you would NEVER buy an SUV, you'd get a Landcruiser/Patrol/Pajero etc

Agreed. But VW do offer an off-road pack, and it is marketed as an Off-roader. Where does one draw the line between "casual off-roading with the occassional challenging obsticle that requires full power" and "hard core off roader"?


I think a lot of people here need to realise that different people want different things from their cars, if you're worried about chipping DON'T DO IT. If you've done your homework and are prepared to take the VERY small risk that something may go wrong with the car as a result of chipping then you go in with full knowledge of this.

I couldn't agree with the sentiment of needing to realise different people wanting different things, and that you should do your homework before chipping. Amusingly, that is what I (and I suspect others) am seeking to do on this thread.

I guess one of the problems that might be causing the perception of FUD is the application of information to the wrong set of variables. Maybe we could set those variables out, and then those that have some experience and evidence to support their opinions can contribute on their opinions of chipping. If reps from the major chipping companies could give feedback that would be great (although obviously objectivity and keeping to your own products would be appreciated)

- What is your engine cabaple of in max KW and max Torque? (specific to each model - 125 and 147 Petrols, and 109 Deisel)
- What is your gearbox cabale of? (specific to each model - 125 and 147 Petrols, and 109 Deisel)
- What is the rest of the drivetrain (Diff's, Haldex, who knows what else) capable of?
- How do you intend using your Tig? (street racer, family SUV, off-roader, regular commuter, etc)
- How long do you intend keeping your Tig? (presumably the longer you want to keep it, the longer you want it to last before making major replacements and repairs that might result for the extra powers stress on the vehicle)
- How much time and money are you willing to spend on regular preventative maintenance of the vehicle to ensure the extra power does not compromise the longevity of the Tig?
- What is your level of technical knowledge on the subject of chipping, the limitations and advantages of it, and your ability to identify potential issues that should be addressed before they damage any part of the Tig?

I'm sure there are other variables too, but those are off the top of my head.

To give you an idea of where I am coming from with my questions and concerns:
- I have the TDI 109kW and know it's cabale of at least 125kw with an extra 40NM of torque without compromising the engine. It may be capable of more though?
- I have the auto gearbox and am really not sure what it is capable of handling. As I currently understand it, the TDI has been limited to 109kW to prevent my auto box from overheating. I would love some more detail on what it's capable of though.
- It seems the rest of the drivetrain is capable of handling any upgrade I am likely to throw at it, though I'm not sure of the longer term effects. For 90% of what I'll use it for it should be fine though.
- I mainly use my Tig for communiting to work during the week where I am a bit of a street light drag racer. On the weekends I tend to do longer drives, mainly on paved roads, but I am intending on doing more easy/medium to medium off-roading once I am comfortable with what the Tig can handle.
- This is my first brand new vehicle so I am naturally a little more protective of it. I intend keeping it longer term so the longevity of the vehicle is pretty important to me.
- I'm unlikely to have a hell of a lot of time and money to spend on maintenance of the vehicle so I would rather have the chipping operate within the parameters of what it can handle rather that have it right on the bleeding edge where the extra stresses result in additional costs from maintenance.
- I am a newbie at the chipping game so am very much in an information gathering phase. I learned the hard way when overclocking my PC's that it's possible to push something way beyond what the manufacturer recommends, but something has to give, and that's usually longevity. There is however a sweet spot that you can achieve that gets more performance than the manufacturer recommends without compromisinging the entegrity of the components. That's the sweet spot I am trying to identify with chipping the Tig before I take the leap.

[DieselTig]

Indeed. Because 103TDI and 125TDI are internally different.
More power=more heath, so VW revised the 125TDI engine to handle that extra power and the heat. Different pistons, conrods, cylinder head and the head gasket just to name a few. ;)
That is exactly what the gentleman from Turbo Engineering told me, the 103 and 125 tdi are different engines and the main reason is the overheating. He also stipulated that they do the changes to ecu program and test it on the 4wd dynamometer to make sure the max operating temperatures engine, exhaust and gearbox are maintained within design parameters. He did mention that you can push it a lot higher but the overheating is going to be the problem.

[Sharkie]

Umm, Actra, .... the TDi Tiguan makes 103kw not 109kw .....

Some general info here:

The R32 makes 320Nm @ 2500-3000rmin & 184kw @ 6300rmin

The R32, Tiguan, Passat 4Motion, Audi A3 Quattro, Audi S3, Audi TT Quattro all use the same drivetrain from a 4Motion perspective with only minor differences for its Haldex ECU, gear ratios and the gearboxes hooked up to it.

The TDi makes 320Nm from 1750rmin-2500rmin .... it is very far from a flat torque curve as it climbs very steeply to that point and drops quite steeply from 2500 onwards. It is only flat for 750rmin and far from ideal.

The TSi Tiguans makes 280Nm from 1700rmin - 5000rmin ... which is flat torque powerband of 3300rmin which is amazing. At 1700rmin and from 3000rmin onwards it makes more torque than the TDi. Have a look at the torque curves ...... At crawling speed over obstacles off-road the TSI will have more torque delivered ...... :eek:

The TDi's strenghts are its economy and lazy revving character not its torque advantage ...... :eek: The TDIs gear ratios are chosen to complement this, but in all acceleration tests, including in-gear overtaking it lags far behind the TSIs. :eek:

The ONLY advantage a TDI has over a TSI is economy ....

Its lazy revving nature and economy appeals to a wide demographic which is great but never list its torque as a strenght compare to the TSis, its actually at a disadvantage if you look it closely from a technical perspective.

SO ....

to get back to tuning, all the research by the respected tuning companies have found that the most optimal result from a performance and reliability perspective for the 2.0TSis and 2.0TDis are:

103kw TDI = 125kw/370NM
125/147kw TSI = 190kw/400NM

and these figures are achieved without endangering reliability and longetivity of the drivetrains involved. You could drive all of them 200,000km provided you follow the service schedules and never experience a problem.

It is when you go beyond these that you start exposing yourself to other potential issues. Do so only if you are well informed and prepared to accept any consequences.

I'd recomend anybody chipping their Tiguans as it will enhance the driving experience of all the models ... TDIs and TSIs alike without endangering anything.

[Arctra]

That is exactly what the gentleman from Turbo Engineering told me, the 103 and 125 tdi are different engines and the main reason is the overheating. He also stipulated that they do the changes to ecu program and test it on the 4wd dynamometer to make sure the max operating temperatures engine, exhaust and gearbox are maintained within design parameters. He did mention that you can push it a lot higher but the overheating is going to be the problem.

Interesting. See, I would have thought the 103TDI and 125TDI would have been pretty much the same parts (as it sounds the 125 and 147 petrols seem to be), but if the 125TDI has been uprated then it makes sense it's capable of more.

I don't suppose your chippers would be willing to say what the TDI's auto box is capable of?

[DieselTig]

Sharkie, I can sense a bit bias against diesels here. Each to their own I guess.

[Sharkie]

Sharkie, I can sense a bit bias against diesels here. Each to their own I guess.

Not at all, I'm actually trying to correct bias ..... proponents of the TDI VW's need to be realistic of its place and strengths and weakness. Its good but not to the extent it's generally made out to be.

BTW ... I have a T/Diesel DualCab 4WD as well .... a real 4WD :) .... in addition to 2 SUVs now (for the moment) .... :duh: .... and I won't ever take the SUVs to the same places as I do the DualCab.

Edit ...
AND ... I'd be far more comfortable taking the "other" SUV on to a beach for instance than any Tiguan. Its has permanent 50:50 AWD and weighs 300kg less .... and in its current form is no slower than a stock TSI Tiguan.

[Arctra]

Yeah, great info there Sharkie, though I already have a TDI so the TDI vs TSI isn't really relevant. I guess it would be to prospective buyers though. :)

Those "safe" figures you quote from the big tuning houses... are you assuming they're safe because that's what the tuning houses are offering, or do you have access to further information that we don't?

I guess the skeptic in me is just uncomfortable with the "trust me, this is the best" info that's currently available. My background is in auditing so I am naturally skeptical. I'd love to sink my teeth into the justifications for that to see whether I am comfortable with the assumptions and compromises the tuning houses use when making the decisions on where they stop their tuning.

I'm not for a second questioning whether anyones decisions to chip or not chip, or to get a TSI vs a TDI, or anything. I am trying to make the best decision for me. And as I said before, I am very grateful that there are more knowledgeable users on this forum willing to give their opinions and advice.

[clip]

Those "safe" figures you quote from the big tuning houses... are you assuming they're safe because that's what the tuning houses are offering, or do you have access to further information that we don't?
I'm guessing that Oettinger and APR - the "big tuning houses" - do know exactly what they are doing and probably more so than what VW actually know or are willing to share at least.

But does anyone, even for one moment, seriously think that Oettinger or APR would supply a modification that would result in potential disaster to engines or drivetrains? That is their business. If they started doing that it would take - at a guess - no more than a few weeks before the "word" got out. They would very soon be out of business. I know people that have been running these mods for as long as they have been available for VW's. I personally do not know and have never heard of any problems caused by these remaps (not saying there hasn't been, but not in my experience).

[sama13]

I'm here with Clip, I have been tuning cars with Revo since 2003 and no problems at all, remember Oettinger and APR both work together with VW and now in the US you can get a APR version GTi from VW USA, if the 4 motion is the question, check HPA with the turbo R32's there are plenty of US tuners and some germans doing over 500hp on those cars and they never mention a problem on the transmission on the forums. I know from personal experience that if you tune to the extreme any car with auto transmission the torque converter suffers more and you might need to change it faster (ex. CLK55 with Kleemann supercharger after 4 years of use, torque converter came out purple of extreme use, changed it and perfect again!)

[Sharkie]

... remember Oettinger and APR both work together with VW and now in the US you can get a APR version GTi from VW USA ...

You have to take note that APR and Oettinger have had really close relationships with VAG (VW Audi Group) for years, and I'm not talking about Australia either. In Germany Oettinger and VAG have worked together for a long time and they even have access to technical info and bulletins (and design info) that nobody else outside has. Same for APR and VW USA.

As Sama says, often limited edition specials through VW are built by these 2 tuners. VW Singapore's limited edition Golf GTI for instance 3 months ago for instance is all APR ....... :eek:

So if a modification through these guys are available I'm pretty certain that everything possible have been taken into consideration. The last thing they want is a "bad" product that will not only cost them customers and loss of market reputation but also damage their relationship with VAG. :eek:

You can buy from these guys with confidence, they have an entire R&D organisation AND inside links to VAG going for them, .... doing something through a lone tuner in his workshop ...... not too confident about that regardless of his skills. :eek:

[DieselTig]

:-D
You have to take note that APR and Oettinger have had really close relationships with VAG (VW Audi Group) for years, and I'm not talking about Australia either. In Germany Oettinger and VAG have worked together for a long time and they even have access to technical info and bulletins (and design info) that nobody else outside has. Same for APR and VW USA.

As Sama says, often limited edition specials through VW are built by these 2 tuners. VW Singapore's limited edition Golf GTI for instance 3 months ago for instance is all APR ....... :eek:

So if a modification through these guys are available I'm pretty certain that everything possible have been taken into consideration. The last thing they want is a "bad" product that will not only cost them customers and loss of market reputation but also damage their relationship with VAG. :eek:

You can buy from these guys with confidence, they have an entire R&D organisation AND inside links to VAG going for them, .... doing something through a lone tuner in his workshop ...... not too confident about that regardless of his skills. :eek:

Good conclusion Sharkie and Sama. Oettinger have been 60+ years in existence and this may say something about them. I think this subject is done to "death".

[Pullstarter]

:-D

Good conclusion Sharkie and Sama. Oettinger have been 60+ years in existence and this may say something about them. I think this subject is done to "death".

I agree, time to draw a line under it. If people can't make a decision from all the info in this thread they never will.

[clip]

But what about ca intakes and exhaust Simon? and then there's fuel pump and turbo upgrades to go. Should be good for close 400hp :bigok:

[DieselTig]

But what about ca intakes and exhaust Simon? and then there's fuel pump and turbo upgrades to go. Should be good for close 400hp :bigok:

For 400HP the cheapest way is to buy aussie HSV with the vintage 6L V8 and that wil also give you a good 800+:checkeredflag: Newtons.

[Pullstarter]

For 400HP the cheapest way is to buy aussie HSV with the vintage 6L V8 and that wil also give you a good 800+:checkeredflag: Newtons.

EEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!! Wash your mouth out!! It has push rods!!! LOL

[DieselTig]

EEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!! Wash your mouth out!! It has push rods!!! LOL

That's exactly what I mean by by "Vintage", 60 year old american technology.LOL

Checked WIki on the Aisin tiptronic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWTF-80_SC and found it interesting reading.

[smipx013]

Hi,

Thats really useful information - thanks.

It tells us that the gearbox is rated to 440Nm. The upgrade from superchips (Bluefin) ups the newtons to 378Nn. ( http://www.mybluefin.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&task=searchblue&action=AllModels&Itemid=135 )

In my mind this means that the gearbox is well placed for a moderate increase as supplied by a Superships (bluefin) type of remap and the engine is also fine for 175Bhp as VW produce a 170+ Bhp variant of the engine which, as far as I'm aware, is identical to the 140bhp version just with a different map. 4 motion is presumably also good for the extra power.

This is enough to satisfy me.

Paul

[DieselTig]

Hi,

Thats really useful information - thanks.

It tells us that the gearbox is rated to 440Nm. The upgrade from superchips (Bluefin) ups the newtons to 378Nn. ( http://www.mybluefin.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&task=searchblue&action=AllModels&Itemid=135 )

In my mind this means that the gearbox is well placed for a moderate increase as supplied by a Superships (bluefin) type of remap and the engine is also fine for 175Bhp as VW produce a 170+ Bhp variant of the engine which, as far as I'm aware, is identical to the 140bhp version just with a different map. 4 motion is presumably also good for the extra power.

This is enough to satisfy me.

Paul

I found through research that most companies will take the diesel to around 380Nm, I havent seen any higher yet.

[sama13]

But what about ca intakes and exhaust Simon? and then there's fuel pump and turbo upgrades to go. Should be good for close 400hp :bigok:

Clip, our new engine revision doesn't need a fuel pump upgrade ;) I'm waiting on my intake it should be here in a couple of weeks.

[DieselTig]

Clip, our new engine revision doesn't need a fuel pump upgrade ;) I'm waiting on my intake it should be here in a couple of weeks.
sama what sort of air intake are you looking at?

[Pullstarter]

I'm definitely getting the Neuspeed CAI when I've got the $$$. Had lots of Neuspeed stuff on the VR6 and it really is awesome quality.

[Tigga1]

I'm definitely getting the Neuspeed CAI when I've got the $$$. Had lots of Neuspeed stuff on the VR6 and it really is awesome quality.

had a look at their website, which parts do you suggest?

http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_list.asp?app=111|&type=11&ltype=ns_euro

regards
Tigga

[clip]

I'm definitely getting the Neuspeed CAI when I've got the $$$. Had lots of Neuspeed stuff on the VR6 and it really is awesome quality.

I've got to get the exhaust with it too though. I'm probably wrong, but I reckon the chipped Tig needs the exhaust as much or even more than the intake. I reckon it might help in the upper rev range where it falls off noticeably. A freer flowing exhaust tuned to the new map I'm sure would overcome most of this and give an even better power spread (if it was a bike it would anyway :)).

Of course it needs the air too, so both hand in hand should do the job quite nicely.

...but are we allowed to talk about this sort of stuff though? (just jokes everyone, just jokes :))

[Pullstarter]

had a look at their website, which parts do you suggest?

http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_list.asp?app=111|&type=11&ltype=ns_euro

regards
Tigga

I'm getting this one;

http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=111|&type=11&ltype=ns_euro&p_id=2048

Exhaust would be nice John but damn it's big $$$ :(

[clip]

I'm getting this one;

http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=111|&type=11&ltype=ns_euro&p_id=2048

Exhaust would be nice John but damn it's big $$$ :(
maybe Guy might come up with something.

[Sharkie]

I've got to get the exhaust with it too though. I'm probably wrong, but I reckon the chipped Tig needs the exhaust as much or even more than the intake. I reckon it might help in the upper rev range where it falls off noticeably. A freer flowing exhaust tuned to the new map I'm sure would overcome most of this and give an even better power spread (if it was a bike it would anyway :)).

Of course it needs the air too, so both hand in hand should do the job quite nicely.


I suspect a tuned Tig will need both intake mods and exhaust mods to make it all work well together.

APR will have a Carbonio intake shortly for the Tig and the exhaust should follow soon as well. Remember that an APR exhaust gets a retune which liberates another +-11kw.

I played with the intake on Saturday and had it all out and a pod filter in, in a similar setup to the Neuspeed kit. Disappointingly it made no real difference to the intake sound :frown: and probably on its own made no extra power either. I'm a little bit wary of the Neuspeed kit as potentially there are differences with the mountings of the airbox to the other 2.0TSI engine applications. Put it all back to stock afterwards but it was great to "discover" where all the little bits go for future reference.

I took some pictures and will post up as soon as I have a moment to hook up the camera to the PC.

[sama13]

Sorry for the late response guys, I'll be getting a BSH stage II intake as I have sold some for the FSI and it's very good, you can find some info on the intake on the Golf MKV forum from the US, the workmanship is great and fitment is just perfect. I also think the exhaust is a most for the Tiggy but I reckon there aren't many out there (I think in the US just Techtonics Tuning and it uses Borla muffler, so it's a piece of s%/t) I haven't found the downpipe either and that is the next step, hopefully APR launches it soon as Sharky stated.

Here is the link check it out:

http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16966&cat=1103&page=1

[Pullstarter]

So this BSH intake will DEFINITELY fit the Tiguan?

[Guy_H]

APR Carbonio ones will be up on the website early next week - all the fitments have been confirmed for the 4 variations of the AUS versions :)

[Pullstarter]

Any rough estimates on prices yet Guy?

[Sharkie]

So this BSH intake will DEFINITELY fit the Tiguan?

Don't know and I'm not confident it will either. More than the Neuspeed though.

We really need to have a look at the Golf GTI to see the plumbing to the stock airbox as I suspect it is different to the Tiguan. The Tiguan has a really convoluted feed to it whereas the Golf's may be more straightforward. This then places the airbox slightly differently which will make fitting of a CAI different. I doubt it is 1 size fits all in reality.:)

Happy to be wrong though .... :)

[Guy_H]

Any rough estimates on prices yet Guy?

Including the adapter set, retail will be $699.

Existing customers should apply for a discount or free labour for fit up :)

[Pullstarter]

I just had a look at the MK5 ones, I didn't realise they were a flat panel. I assume the Tig intake would be a panel also?

[sama13]

So this BSH intake will DEFINITELY fit the Tiguan?

Pullstarter, they have checked fitment in the US version already, I will be checking fitment and post pics when I get it, it should be the same as their version (petrol of course). I'll keep you guys posted.

[Guy_H]

I just had a look at the MK5 ones, I didn't realise they were a flat panel. I assume the Tig intake would be a panel also?

No - The Tig uses the fully enclosed Pod version - Carbonio TSI

Will post up some pics this week, we are fitting another!

[Pullstarter]

No - The Tig uses the fully enclosed Pod version - Carbonio TSI

Will post up some pics this week, we are fitting another!

Eeeeeeeeeeexcellent :)

[Sharkie]

Here are some pics of a stock TSI airbox and a pod located in its place.

Note in particular the curve of the feed to the airbox and the high position for the mount for it when fitted. This is what could potentially be the problem with the CAIs currently out there as I suspect the TSI Golfs are different. We will need to fit 1 to see if it works. Who's game to be the "crash test dummy"?:rolleyes:







http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/TiguanPod01-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/TiguanAirbox02-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/TiguanAirbox01-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/TiguanAirboxRemoved-2.jpg

[clip]

Who's game to be the "crash test dummy"?:rolleyes:
hey? "who's going to be the crash test dummy"??? ...... it's YOU sharkie! :)

[Guy_H]

Haldex Update :cool:

http://www.ozvolks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3268#post3268

[Tigga1]

Haldex Update :cool:

http://www.ozvolks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3268#post3268

Guy, does this mean they are in stock?
thanks
Tigga

[Guy_H]

Placed the order - they are coming from Sweden.

Still waiting on delivery dates :)

[DieselTig]

Placed the order - they are coming from Sweden.

Still waiting on delivery dates :)
Guy, can we get some more information on the functionality than what has been posted on the ozvolks forum?
Also, how would the vehicle perform in wet road conditions?

[Guy_H]

That is all they have told us - there is a technical manual, but it's only to do with installation / identification of the Gen II to Gen IV units, so not what you are after.

From my discussions, it works like all the other Haldex products - there is most improvements in the "sport" mode and like the road going versions - more rear drive earlier = less slip = more traction!

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/haldex-ttc.html

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/haldex-perf-graphs.html

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/haldex-rlt.html

[Guy_H]

APR TSi Carbon Airboxes fit on the Tig perfectly - look awesome :driver:

[Pullstarter]

APR TSi Carbon Airboxes fit on the Tig perfectly - look awesome :driver:

Pics please? How's the induction sound? :cool:

[Guy_H]

Pics here: http://www.ozvolks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3275&postcount=16

Please feel free to repost them here!

About a 10% increase in induction noise (its still a fully sealed all states legal airbox!)

[Pullstarter]

Thanks Guy but I'm not a member there, can't view them. Does this intake use a pod or panel filter?

[Guy_H]

Uses a pod but fully enclosed in a carbon fiber enclosure.

Will get it up on our website in the next couple of days.

[clip]

dyno chart would be great to see if there's any top end improvement.

[Guy_H]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/20tsi_trans_maf_allgif-1.jpg

"Cold air induction is accomplished by completely sealing the intake system from the hot engine bay air and then taking it even further through the choice of Carbon Fiber material and an additional thermal barrier application to the inside of the intake system. Quite often intakes are advertised as cold air induction even though the material choice is a metal or plastic composite which simply does not insulate the incoming air from the hot engine bay air or does not completely seal the intake system in the engine bay allowing hot air to enter the intake stream negating any cold air induction gains."
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/20tsi_carbonio_dynogif-1.jpg

14 ftlb & 16hp - test car had a full exhaust but it is a good test! 93 MON octane = 98 RON octane

[Pullstarter]

Is the filter a re-usable oil jobbie or a dry filter Guy?

[Sharkie]

Is the filter a re-usable oil jobbie or a dry filter Guy?

Looks like a reusable oil 1.

BTW that 16hp is 11kw, but that might be dependant on having an exhaust done already.

So I figure anywhere between 5-11kw on its own .....

So .... APR ECU, Carbonio intake & exhaust = about 210kw on the TSI ...... :cool:

[Pullstarter]

Looks like a reusable oil 1.

BTW that 16hp is 11kw, but that might be dependant on having an exhaust done already.

So I figure anywhere between 5-11kw on its own .....

So .... APR ECU, Carbonio intake & exhaust = about 210kw on the TSI ...... :cool:

APR is going to send me broke!!! Damn their goodness!! :cool:

[Guy_H]

Wash & re-use filter :cool:

[Pullstarter]

Here are some pics of a stock TSI airbox and a pod located in its place.

Note in particular the curve of the feed to the airbox and the high position for the mount for it when fitted. This is what could potentially be the problem with the CAIs currently out there as I suspect the TSI Golfs are different. We will need to fit 1 to see if it works. Who's game to be the "crash test dummy"?:rolleyes:







http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/TiguanPod01-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/TiguanAirbox02-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/TiguanAirbox01-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/08/TiguanAirboxRemoved-1.jpg

[/URL]

Johan, do you have any info on the size of the silicone elbow they used there? I just did some measurements and the stock intake OD is 80mm. I'm looking at using one of these which has a 70mm mounting OD;

[url]http://www.knfilters.com/universal/apollo.htm (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh54/jv3069/TiguanPod01.jpg)

Would need that elbow in the pics I think, looks to be a reducer elbow.

[snooze]

check this video out, DIY chip install for TDI, appears to be a hardware chip that can be easily install or remove at any time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiHRjwZmAO8

[team_v]

Could this fit on the tig?
The intake box and piping is made for the Mk5 but the tig layout is similar is it not?
http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shared/part_detail.cfm?PMaI=3&PMoI=38&PEI=25&PP=mk5gj_20t_drivetrain.cfm&PPT=Drivetrain&IL=20T_CCB

Edit, just realised that the moulding for the box probably fits the Mk5 and so it may not work :(

[NZTiguan]

check this video out, DIY chip install for TDI, appears to be a hardware chip that can be easily install or remove at any time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiHRjwZmAO8

These "tuning chips" have been around for a long time particularly for diesels. My personal take is that most of them just fool the vehicle into burning more fuel in order to produce more horsepower. Would be interesting to see an "actual" test done running a dyno etc to see if they're actually effective or not. I suspect "not" and that as in most things you get what you pay for !!

Cheers

[Sharkie]

These "tuning chips" have been around for a long time particularly for diesels. My personal take is that most of them just fool the vehicle into burning more fuel in order to produce more horsepower. Would be interesting to see an "actual" test done running a dyno etc to see if they're actually effective or not. I suspect "not" and that as in most things you get what you pay for !!

Cheers

Agree completely, these are by no means "chips" or ECU tuning. These in most cases are inefficient and potentially harmful to your engine. Rather go with a real ECU tune than this.....

[qsilverza]

Can somebody take me for a ride in a chipped 125 Tig ? What are the brakes like ? I want to get one as an everyday semi fast car with towing capability and it's the only one that will tow my race car haha :)

Sharkie, Whats the ride like with different suspension and wheels ? Is it top heavy ?

:banana:

[team_v]

Can somebody take me for a ride in a chipped 125 Tig ? What are the brakes like ? I want to get one as an everyday semi fast car with towing capability and it's the only one that will tow my race car haha :)

Sharkie, Whats the ride like with different suspension and wheels ? Is it top heavy ?

:banana:

With the H&R springs it should lower the center of gravity and thus make the car less top heavy.

I am also interested to hear about how the brakes are handling the upgraded engine specs.

[clip]

Can somebody take me for a ride in a chipped 125 Tig ?
If you're up on the Sunshine Coast any time, I'd be happy to give you a run.

[Sharkie]

With the H&R springs it should lower the center of gravity and thus make the car less top heavy.

I am also interested to hear about how the brakes are handling the upgraded engine specs.

Brakes are GTI spec 312mm fronts which will handle the extra power with no issues at all. If you try to take it to a track I'd recommend a brake upgrade, but for daily driving with 190kw there should be no problems. If you really want more, upgrade the brake pads to EBC Reds or Greens. No other brake upgrades should be necessary ......



Sharkie, Whats the ride like with different suspension and wheels ? Is it top heavy ?

My Tig is going in next week for its 1000km checkup, so only after that will the work on it start ..... no mods yet .....

the Tig, unlike most other SUVs, do not feel top heavy at all even in std form. It drives pretty much like a car ... :bowdown:

[Pullstarter]

I'd be very surprised if you had any brake issues with the chip. I find the stock brakes quite phenomenol :)

I would never call the Tig top heavy, even with the stock suspension it felt very planted. With the H&Rs even more so.

P.S. Welcome back from the dark side John :D

[clip]

I'd be very surprised if you had any brake issues with the chip. I find the stock brakes quite phenomenol :)

I would never call the Tig top heavy, even with the stock suspension it felt very planted. With the H&Rs even more so.

P.S. Welcome back from the dark side John :D
Thanks mate. Just ordered the springs from Dave, so all's good to go :banana:

[cubes]

I was telling someboy about how I was planning to fit H&R or Eibach lowering springs and they mentioned to watch out for voiding the VW factory warranty. I didn't think it was an issue, is it ??

[clip]

I was telling someboy about how I was planning to fit H&R or Eibach lowering springs and they mentioned to watch out for voiding the VW factory warranty. I didn't think it was an issue, is it ??
If you chopped out your shocks or something that they could claim was a result of the springs, then you'd be up the creek. If you blow a water pump or your electric windows stop working, then you'd be OK.

[Pullstarter]

It will void your warranty on the springs but they won't be there anymore anyway :) According to the dealer the warranty is only voided on the parts you modify, what happens if you try and make a warranty claim may be a totally different story entirely. It does seem to be down to dealer discretion though. The 2 dealers down here are very different, one wholeheartedly endorses APR chipping whilst the other doesn't. Just find a good dealer I guess is the answer.

[Greg Roles]

Guys that stock airbox looks IDENTICAL to my GT TDI Golf, which is the same for most Golf's and Jetta's. Any of the GTI aftermarket intakes would fit my TDI, with the exception of the last bit of pipe to the turbo. Any Pod or Panel aftermarket filter box itself should be entirely adaptable. That picture shows an identical above radiator scoop, curved pipe inlet, box, 90 degree lid outlet. I can't see a difference.

GT TSI Golf
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/tsi24rc-1.jpg

GTI Golf
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/gti-1.jpg

My TDI stock - well at the start of messing with it...
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/2008_0307Image0007-1.jpg

Curved pipe heat wrapped.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/2008_0322Image0024-1.jpg

Box from another angle, plus heat tape.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/2008_0322Image0023-1.jpg

[Pullstarter]

A few peeps in the US have used TSI and TDI intakes and they do fit up hardware wise but some seem to have a gap between the intake and the grill. I think the Tig engine bay is just that little bit bigger.

[Tedhaggie]

any experience out there with this "chipping" for TDi

http://www.mtm-online.de/en/VW/Tiguan/2-0TDI-103-kW-140hp-4-motion?FZID=TIGUANTDI103Q.

They have whats appears to be a conventional chip reprog ang a separate canbus module

THe m-cantfronic looks interesting as doesn't require specialist fitting. Particularly attractive for remote owners

[clip]

any experience out there with this "chipping" for TDi
THe m-cantfronic looks interesting as doesn't require specialist fitting. Particularly attractive for remote owners
I know it looks a good option for someone remote so they can fit it up themselves, but I wouldn't be happy with aftermarket electronics running the system. I suspect the fitting would also be obvious to a dealer (both physically and when hooked up to diagnostics) and I'm sure they'd have a field day denying any warranty stuff with one installed. A trip to the nearest capital city where experts can make sure your car is remapped properly and running spot on would seem a better option to me. I'm sure the TDI guys here will be able to advise you better than me though.

[Tedhaggie]

Made enquiry with Oettinger AUS this was the reply

Thank you for your enquiry.

The Tiguan software requires a new type of programming tool.

The program is available now.

This tool is currently available in WA, SA, and QLD and will be available shortly in SYD and Melb.

http://www.oettinger.de/en/product-88/volkswagen-1/tiguan-54/engine_tuning-1/2_0_tdi_103_kw_140_ps_125_kw_170_ps-468.html


Cost - $2495 fully installed including 12 month engine, drivetrain and breakdown warranty

[clip]

Tedhaggie, I see you're in QLD. Have you contacted Harding's Performance yet? They're in Bris and what these guys don't know about VW's isn't worth knowing. They are also Oettinger and APR dealers.

http://www.hp.net.au/

1300 730 949

[team_v]

I really like the wheels from the concept tiguan but i haven't been able to find them anywhere.

http://photos.webridestv.com/datastore/images/user/2ec98c5e0596ae30135c1d0a07fa37ad/VW_Tiguan_Concept_2008_9860_20071015_l.jpg


For anyone else who is looking these are the closes i can find:

http://a.imagehost.org/0530/Momo_Strike.jpg

http://a.imagehost.org/0102/Tettsut_x.jpg

[Tedhaggie]

Hardings responded to my contact from the Oettinger OZ site- same address to.

THanks

[clip]

Any of you guys that have fitted up H&R springs noticed any drop in height after a few months? I'm guessing that the progressive rate design of these springs will result in some additional settling after a while.

[sama13]

Hi Clip,

I installed the H&R ones and didn't notice a difference after some months after, I never took measures to be honest if there was a chance of some mm's after using them.

[Pullstarter]

I did measures :) was about a further 5mm drop after 3 months. As it stands now its 35mm lower at the front and 39mm at the rear.

[clip]

I did measures :)
Of course you did :biggrin: - thanks, I thought they might.

[Pullstarter]

Have yours arrived yet John?

[clip]

Have yours arrived yet John?
yeh mate, fitted up last week. Very happy :biggrin: Surprised at how well it rides, better than the stocks over the short bumps. Certainly flattened out the cornering and is more flickable to boot.

Now if I could just find someone to make me up a CAI, I'd be a happy boy ;-)

[Pullstarter]

Certainly improves the ride, I noticed the steering was a lot sharper too :) I think a big fat Nuespeed rear swaybar may be in order though :D

[Sharkie]

yeh mate, fitted up last week. Very happy :biggrin: Surprised at how well it rides, better than the stocks over the short bumps. Certainly flattened out the cornering and is more flickable to boot.

Now if I could just find someone to make me up a CAI, I'd be a happy boy ;-)

Where did you get it fitted John?

And on the intake, I'll show you mine (went in this weekend) and costs very little. Sounds good. I'll be testing it to see how it stacks up, as I like the Carbonio and have that in mind as an alternative option .....

BTW .... APR sales usually on in December, so keep an eye out and save a few $$$ on it ....

[Pullstarter]

The Carbonio is a very nice piece of kit but I just can't justify that kind of money.

Have also been thinking about an exhaust but worried about getting a drony, loud POS so I'll have to think about it.

[Sharkie]

The Carbonio is a very nice piece of kit but I just can't justify that kind of money.

Yep, it is a bit pricey, I'm also tossing up between a few other things so it can wait until I know for sure I want it or am happy with what I've got now.


Have also been thinking about an exhaust but worried about getting a drony, loud POS so I'll have to think about it.

Had a good look underneath when mine was @ APR for the gbox insert. Biggest improvement will be had from a down-pipe. Rest of the exhaust actually not too bad. APR waiting to see what the demand is like before committing to any exhaust products.

Currently about 20 APR chipped TSIs in Oz and about 10 Oettinger chipped TDIs ....... so the market potential is small ...... :(

I have a nice exhaust on the RAV4 and have to admit that the drone (even though its not too loud) can get to you on long distances .....

For that very reason will I only do a downpipe on the Tig if and when it becomes available.

[clip]

hmmm, I'd really love to do a Stage 3 set up. I'm thinking I'll probably play with this car for a few years so would be worth it. But seems it might not even be available here :frown:

[team_v]

I thought Guy said they were working on a Stage 3 kit for the tig.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?p=353504&highlight=stage#post353504
Page 8


http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?p=325047&highlight=stage#post325047
Page 4

[clip]

Where did you get it fitted John?

And on the intake, I'll show you mine (went in this weekend) and costs very little. Sounds good. I'll be testing it to see how it stacks up, as I like the Carbonio and have that in mind as an alternative option .....

Got them fitted at Maroochy Car Care. A mate of mine reminded me that John, the owner, was one of the best on the coast (don't know why I didn't think of him before - he's a very smart guy and particularly good at diagnostics).

sharkie - be interested in what you think about your intake.

Simon, what do reckon about yours now you've had it in for a while?

[clip]

I thought Guy said they were working on a Stage 3 kit for the tig.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?p=353504&highlight=stage#post353504
Page 8


http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?p=325047&highlight=stage#post325047
Page 4
I can only live in hope team v! But I understand if there's little or no demand, then doesn't make sense.

[team_v]

I can only live in hope team v! But I understand if there's little or no demand, then doesn't make sense.

I guess there wouldn't be that many people wanting to upgrade their tig as it isn't really a performance vehicle, a GTI is more suitable.

The only extra problem would be the expenses to upgrade the rest of the car for the huge power increases.
You would need an intake, fuel pump, brakes, engine mounts, clutch and exhaust etc to be upgraded.

[clip]

I noticed the steering was a lot sharper too :) I think a big fat Nuespeed rear swaybar may be in order though :D
yeh, it is sharper and more flickable, but interestingly mine does now understeer more than before, which I'm not overjoyed about. Not sure why that's the case. Would a stiffer swaybar help? Any suspension gurus out there?

I'm actually thinking the Haldex upgrade might be the next mod to help get some more power to the rear wheels (:blowtorch: front wheel drive:rifle: ).

[Pullstarter]

Big fat rear swaybar will definitely cut down on understeer, in my VR6 it even caused oversteer (which was damn fun!!) :banana:

The intake is great, definitely more responsive and you get some good, yet subtle noises. DV and high rev growl in particular :D

[clip]

... their tig as it isn't really a performance vehicle, a GTI is more suitable.
yeh, I agree with what you're saying on one hand team v, but then that's where I also disagree. There are lots of people that want performance SUV's or 4x4. That was sort of my argument before http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=34658&page=5

The fact that the Tig has such potential with such a good platform to begin with, sort of makes me wonder why VAG don't exploit it more. Maybe that would be crossing over too far into the Audi side where the profit margins are so much better?

[clip]

The intake is great, definitely more responsive and you get some good, yet subtle noises. DV and high rev growl in particular :D
I'm PM'ing you my delivery address now :kiss2:

[team_v]

yeh, I agree with what you're saying on one hand team v, but then that's where I also disagree. There are lots of people that want performance SUV's or 4x4. That was sort of my argument before http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=34658&page=5

The fact that the Tig has such potential with such a good platform to begin with, sort of makes me wonder why VAG don't exploit it more. Maybe that would be crossing over too far into the Audi side where the profit margins are so much better?

I agree that is it a good base with large potential.
I was stating that most people would not have bought their tig for that potential.


The only issue with the performance side of the tig might be the higher centre of gravity but if it is only for a spiritied drive, then it shouldn't be a problem.
The engine is great with a chip, it gets a bigger increase than any other vw engine i have seen.

[Guy_H]

If anyone needs a stage 3 kit for the Tiguan, Thats not a problem!

The kit is the same as the new Golf VI GTI just released, the only difference is the exhaust which we prototype & fabricate in Brisbane anyway!

One thing you should allow for is a new clutch & flywheel combination & the front mount intercooler - the rest of the drivetrain will handle it well.

[team_v]

If anyone needs a stage 3 kit for the Tiguan, Thats not a problem!
The kit is the same as the new Golf VI GTI just released, the only difference is the exhaust which we prototype & fabricate in Brisbane anyway!
One thing you should allow for is a new clutch & flywheel combination & the front mount intercooler - the rest of the drivetrain will handle it well.

Great work Guy!
You have gone above and beyond for the VW scene.

I am sure Clip will be stoked to hear about the Stage 3 availability.
Should turn the Tig into a monster!

[clip]

I am sure Clip will be stoked to hear about the Stage 3 availability. Should turn the Tig into a monster!
might have to wait till the new year now, I've just decided I need a new RSV4.

[team_v]

might have to wait till the new year now, I've just decided I need a new RSV4.

RSV4 or RAV4?


Why are you going with the RAV if that is correct?

[Sharkie]

Its a motorbike .... https://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/hs.xsl/news_aprilia_rsv4.htm

Question, do you REALLY need it :cool: I would have suspected the R1 would stay sufficient for a while ......

[clip]

Question, do you REALLY need it :cool: I would have suspected the R1 would stay sufficient for a while ......
I know Sharkie, I know, but 180+hp is very addictive- especially in a package like this!:

http://members.westnet.com.au/jsturn/RSV4.jpg

[clip]

Why are you going with the RAV if that is correct?
:eek: Team V wash your mouth out :)

[team_v]

:eek: Team V wash your mouth out :)

Sorry, hazzard of having to correct too many typo's for work.
The new bike looks pretty wicked.
180+ Hp would be enjoyable on that frame.

[Pullstarter]

Aprillia=goodness, MV Agusta=perfection, at a price of course :banana:

[Sharkie]

Aprillia=goodness, MV Agusta=perfection, at a price of course :banana:

We've gone totally off-topic, but some bad news ... Buell and MV Agusta to be no more ... Harley is broke so killing or selling off both ..... :(

Back on topic .... 235/50/18s going on the RS4s before the end of this week ...... :biggrin:

[team_v]

We've gone totally off-topic, but some bad news ... Buell and MV Agusta to be no more ... Harley is broke so killing or selling off both ..... :(

Back on topic .... 235/50/18s going on the RS4s before the end of this week ...... :biggrin:

Great news on the RS4's.
Can't wait to see pictures.

[DieselTig]

Guys, you have been discussing the carbonio air intake for the TSi, would there be any value of adding it to the Tdi. My next door neighbour added it to his falcon and says that he has better perfornance.

Any idea if it will make any difference on the TDi?

[Sharkie]

Guys, you have been discussing the carbonio air intake for the TSi, would there be any value of adding it to the Tdi. My next door neighbour added it to his falcon and says that he has better perfornance.

Any idea if it will make any difference on the TDi?

It will offer all of the same benefits for the TDI ... main ones are reduced lag, quicker spool up, improved consumption and and more power.

When I as at APR for the Carbonio we were looking at a TDI and comparing it to the TSI to see if it would fit the TDI.

IMO it will fit with an adaptor to the slightly bigger TDI MAF housing which is not available atm. That could be done by a rubber reducer potentially.

I'd probably speak to Guy @ APR about it but see no reason why you could not get 1 and have it adapted slightly to fit.

The stock intake path looks identical on the TDI to the TSI except for the slightly bigger last bit to the MAF.

[DieselTig]

It will offer all of the same benefits for the TDI ... main ones are reduced lag, quicker spool up, improved consumption and and more power.

When I as at APR for the Carbonio we were looking at a TDI and comparing it to the TSI to see if it would fit the TDI.

IMO it will fit with an adaptor to the slightly bigger TDI MAF housing which is not available atm. That could be done by a rubber reducer potentially.

I'd probably speak to Guy @ APR about it but see no reason why you could not get 1 and have it adapted slightly to fit.

The stock intake path looks identical on the TDI to the TSI except for the slightly bigger last bit to the MAF.
Sharkie, thanks for heads up. The benefits you listed there, they are just with intake.
I lag I notice more and and more as I drive the car and that will be a good thing if I can get improvements on that.

Also, if adaptor is ready to go, can this be done by Volkspower here in Melbourne or can I do it myself?

[clip]

I lag I notice more and and more as I drive the car and that will be a good thing if I can get improvements on that.

Maybe consider something like the Oettinger remap for your diesel. That will make a great difference - and not that expensive.

[Sharkie]

Sharkie, thanks for heads up. The benefits you listed there, they are just with intake.
I lag I notice more and and more as I drive the car and that will be a good thing if I can get improvements on that.


All those benefits just with the intake yes ... not a huge amount of a difference but still noticable.

Unfortunately lag is the nature of the TDI beast .... TSIs have none of it ....

As clip said, the Oettinger chip will go further than anything else to reduce that lag and provide increased power, tractability and reduced fuel consumption. If I had a TDI I'd do it for certain.

[DieselTig]

All those benefits just with the intake yes ... not a huge amount of a difference but still noticable.

Unfortunately lag is the nature of the TDI beast .... TSIs have none of it ....

As clip said, the Oettinger chip will go further than anything else to reduce that lag and provide increased power, tractability and reduced fuel consumption. If I had a TDI I'd do it for certain.
Thanks for the advice, I will take it onboard. I will run engine in first after a few k's and then consider these options.

[Sharkie]

Good news .... my H&R suspension is in and it is great. It reminds me of the drive and feel of a stock GTI .... which is good.:cool:

Bad news .... whilst fitting the suspension we had a really good look at the clearances for a 3" downpipe .... and there is not enough space to fit ... :(

The outlet of the stock K03 (and even the K04) turbo is positioned such that you cannot clear the tailshaft without comprising airflow ....

A different turbo may work with the space available so that is always an option for those that want to go extreme .... :eek:

Performance wise my Tig is now complete .... only a few small cosmetic bits to go .... :rolleyes:

[Guy_H]

Bad news .... whilst fitting the suspension we had a really good look at the clearances for a 3" downpipe .... and there is not enough space to fit ... :(



We told you that! - divorced wastegate DP will work, but ups the cost considerably.

Wheres the pics of your lowered car then :)

[Sharkie]

We told you that! - divorced wastegate DP will work, but ups the cost considerably.

Wheres the pics of your lowered car then :)

yeah .. I know .... sigh .... was hoping a custom job would do it where the your jig built (ie mass built) version wouldn't ....

[Arctra]

Wheres the pics of your lowered car then :)

I concur Guy!
:pics:

Hey Guy, have you had many TDI Tigs come through your shop for remaps? Confirm you only have Oettinger that have a remap available at the moment, not APR, so the APR specials don't apply (even though I hear APR own Oettinger now?)? Oettinger really need to update their Aussie site as it doesn't list the Tig :-(

I'm very keen to see how a remapped TDI Tig goes before getting mine done, but 1st hand accounts/feedback have been lacking so far.

[Guy_H]

Only Oettinger does the EDC17 Diesels - it's a whole new set of programming tools.

APR don't own Oettinger, but they ARE technical partners :)

Our Fault on the website, just had to redo the APR & DMS ones, Oettinger is in the works as we speak :cool:

Send us an email & will try to put you in touch with a customer with same car as yours!

[DieselTig]

Only Oettinger does the EDC17 Diesels - it's a whole new set of programming tools.

APR don't own Oettinger, but they ARE technical partners :)

Our Fault on the website, just had to redo the APR & DMS ones, Oettinger is in the works as we speak :cool:

Send us an email & will try to put you in touch with a customer with same car as yours!
Guy, I will drop you an email too, I am very keen to go and Dean at Volkspower, but it is nice to get some testimonials if possible.

[clip]

Good news .... my H&R suspension is in and it is great.
About bloody time too! :)

Still can't help feeling that uprated rear sway bar would now just finish off the handling. Can't remember, but I think GTI Dave had a couple of options?

I'll be in Bris next Thursday, so hopefully be able to pick up the intake then.

[Pullstarter]

I think i'll probably go with a Neuspeed sway John, had one on the VR6 and it was FANTASTIC! Not only that I think the H&Rs are only available in pairs?

[Pullstarter]

We told you that! - divorced wastegate DP will work, but ups the cost considerably.

Wheres the pics of your lowered car then :)

Totally devestated to hear this! :tear: This was going to be my next performance mod, I was really looking forward to trying to get around 230kw out of this thing, heartbroken! :tear:

[clip]

Totally devestated to hear this! :tear: This was going to be my next performance mod, I was really looking forward to trying to get around 230kw out of this thing, heartbroken! :tear:
You could be the first with S3 kit!

[Pullstarter]

Not this century lol.

Just reading some disturbing reports on Vortex that TSI clutches are starting to wear VERY prematurely on APR stage 2, any news on this Guy?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4622172

[clip]

I'm pretty sure the Tig's have a different clutch - heavier, because of the 4WD capability. So hopefully if there is an issue we'll be OK. At the end of the day though, what's a clutch worth in the scheme of things?

[Pullstarter]

I'm pretty sure the Tig's have a different clutch - heavier, because of the 4WD capability. So hopefully if there is an issue we'll be OK. At the end of the day though, what's a clutch worth in the scheme of things?

To get an uprated clutch about 2k+ actually :eek:

[clip]

To get an uprated clutch about 2k+ actually :eek:
It's all priorities I guess mate. Lots of people spend thousands just to get an OEM sat nav/audio/bluetooth. For what that costs you can have Stage 1 + intake + springs + clutch (if we did need it) and you're about even. And then of course, if you went for leather plus the OEM Nav/audio gear, an S3 kit would be looking cheap!

But this is why I love VW so much. I can choose what I want and work it to my advantage and my priorities. To my knowledge I cannot find another vehicle sold today that can give me this level of customisation and control over the car that I end up driving.

[Pullstarter]

It's all priorities I guess mate. Lots of people spend thousands just to get an OEM sat nav/audio/bluetooth. For what that costs you can have Stage 1 + intake + springs + clutch (if we did need it) and you're about even. And then of course, if you went for leather plus the OEM Nav/audio gear, an S3 kit would be looking cheap!

But this is why I love VW so much. I can choose what I want and work it to my advantage and my priorities. To my knowledge I cannot find another vehicle sold today that can give me this level of customisation and control over the car that I end up driving.

All true and I'd love an S3 kit, unfortunately the cash just aint there, maybe one day.................

[DieselTig]

I concur Guy!
:pics:

Hey Guy, have you had many TDI Tigs come through your shop for remaps? Confirm you only have Oettinger that have a remap available at the moment, not APR, so the APR specials don't apply (even though I hear APR own Oettinger now?)? Oettinger really need to update their Aussie site as it doesn't list the Tig :-(

I'm very keen to see how a remapped TDI Tig goes before getting mine done, but 1st hand accounts/feedback have been lacking so far.
Arctra,

I sent an email to APR regarding speaking to people that did remaps on the tdi and suggested to communicate with you once you have established contact.
Have you had any feedback yet?

[jimbomort]

I'm pretty sure the Tig's have a different clutch - heavier, because of the 4WD capability. So hopefully if there is an issue we'll be OK.

We all love our tigs, so yes hopefully it will be. However even if heavier, also under more load as 4wd system means less give as all power and torque is converted into traction, especially comparing from take off :P.

Anyway wont stop me from getting the APR stage 1 upgrade, which is probably where I'll stop anyhow. I noticed on that vortex thread ref to some being able to claim under warranty, but cant see how, clutches aren't covered under warranty anyway.

[Guy_H]

Not this century lol.

Just reading some disturbing reports on Vortex that TSI clutches are starting to wear VERY prematurely on APR stage 2, any news on this Guy?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4622172

No reports that I have heard of here, but anything is possible.

Our TSi GTI just did 30 launches to get performance box 0-100 times & the clutch was not very happy at all (in 35 degree heat too)

P.S>, we have lots of options for beefing up the clutch if & when we get to that stage.

[Sharkie]

Hey Guy, how different is the Tig gearbox to the S3's?

Longer gear ratio's in the manual Tigs would be awesome ... but expensive I suppose ....

[Guy_H]

Hey Guy, how different is the Tig gearbox to the S3's?

Longer gear ratio's in the manual Tigs would be awesome ... but expensive I suppose ....

No idea - the outside looks similar, but some bits of the inside we have seen bear no resemblance to the S3 box.......

Might be cheaper to buy an S3 & put a 4 inch lift kit on it :)

[Sharkie]

Might be cheaper to buy an S3 & put a 4 inch lift kit on it :)

Funny, you should say that, I've been looking at S3's recently ..... 2008 (MY09)'s are less than $55K atm .... so that Golf R better be competitive price wise or I'd get a S3 .... :cool: ... lift kit not needed ....

[jimbomort]

Our 125 TSI joined the 190 ranks today
The guys at APR were great.

Shes set back to stock now:eek:, but the wraps come off on xmas day - Dads xmas present and then she's all 190 from then on

On another measure of 'performance' (or at least efficiency) the Tig averaged an incredible 5.8 l/100km on the way up to Brissy today, mostly hwy, but some suburbia. Amazing fuel economy for a petrol - perhaps an MFD glitch, we'll see if repeats. There was a southerly blowing so a tail wind on way up though it wasn't exactly a gale. This was stock.

Trip back (remapped) not as good though still only 6.5 l per 100 and that with a head wind and probably more aircon. I've done 6.5 a few times, will see if those high 5 figs repeat. Regularly in the low 6's per 100km when cruising and the capacity for low 6's 0-100!! is an awesome combo.

[08elf]

Funny, you should say that, I've been looking at S3's recently ..... 2008 (MY09)'s are less than $55K atm .... so that Golf R better be competitive price wise or I'd get a S3 .... :cool: ... lift kit not needed ....

The January edition of wheels magaznine has a quick update on the Golf R. It's listed on page 22 with a quick summary of 199kw all wheel drive...then further in on page 114 talks about it being around $55k.

[08elf]

Oh yes and forgot to mention i've had the APR stage I software put on my 125TSI Tiguan and the performance is outstanding.

Currently 190kw and wanting more.......

[Sharkie]

Good to see 2 more 190TSI Tiguans joining the fold ..... ENJOY!!!


.... Currently 190kw and wanting more.......

Thats seems to be a common problem these days .... don't worry I'm on the job to research additional power options ....:google:

[Guy_H]

Been looking into further development on exhaust & turbo upgrades.

No use using a K04 turbo on this motor - it requires a lot of modification to fit, and the APR stage 3 kit is Superior in every way, including spool up & torque across the range.

No plans from the US on a downpipe / exhaust, the clearance issue of the AWD drive train means a divorced wastegate downpipe is required to give the flow and volume (and body / tailshaft clearance) - so this means a setup similar to our Audi S3 / TTS / R20 GTI setup.

Any feedback on is it worth taking on the project for the Tiguan? Pricing will be similar to the S3 systems price (and we can build the cat-back system as well) ?

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/apr_exhaust_a3s3quattrofull.html

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/apr_exhaust_a3s3quattro-downpipe.html

[Sharkie]

Been looking into further development on exhaust & turbo upgrades.

No use using a K04 turbo on this motor - it requires a lot of modification to fit, and the APR stage 3 kit is Superior in every way, including spool up & torque across the range.

No plans from the US on a downpipe / exhaust, the clearance issue of the AWD drive train means a divorced wastegate downpipe is required to give the flow and volume (and body / tailshaft clearance) - so this means a setup similar to our Audi S3 / TTS / R20 GTI setup.

Any feedback on is it worth taking on the project for the Tiguan? Pricing will be similar to the S3 systems price (and we can build the cat-back system as well) ?

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/apr_exhaust_a3s3quattrofull.html

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/apr_exhaust_a3s3quattro-downpipe.html

I've been speaking to Guy about this yesterday and the S3 downpipe looks awesome and will deal with the clearance issues once adapted/copied with modifications. APR would need a few comitted buyers to be able to proceed (aprox 8-10 to recover the development costs).

So if you want (need) 1 might be a good idea to indicate your interest.

It will be fairly pricey (about $2500; hopefully less:rolleyes:) but will provide an extra 10-12kw atw (15-20 on the engine). So 220kw Tiguan is a possibility .... :bowdown:

[Tigga1]

Guy
any feedback on the Haldex unit, have you installed a few and how are the reports?

Also, any news on your fishing trip up north...;-]

kind regards
Tigga

[08elf]

So........

Stage 1 is the ECU upgrade
Stage 2 would be the Carbon Intake, Intercooler
Stage 3 is the APR stage 3 kit with an upgraded turbo rated at 370hp (275kw)?

Do you need the exhaust for the stage 3 kit? or is the OEM one going to do the job?
Wouldn't the stage 3 kit get 220kw for the Tiguan easily?

[Pullstarter]

Stage 1 with fuel pump upgrade and intake (which I think is pretty much stage 2?) should be enough for 220kw @ the crank.

Pretty sure stage 3 comes with the exhaust and should be good for close to 300kw I imagine.

[Sharkie]

So........

Stage 1 is the ECU upgrade
Stage 2 would be the Carbon Intake, Intercooler
Stage 3 is the APR stage 3 kit with an upgraded turbo rated at 370hp (275kw)?

Do you need the exhaust for the stage 3 kit? or is the OEM one going to do the job?
Wouldn't the stage 3 kit get 220kw for the Tiguan easily?

Stg1 = ECU = 190kw
Stg1.5 = Stg1 + either Intake or Downpipe/exhaust = 200kw
Stg2 = Stg1 + Intake + Downpipe/exhaust = 210kw
Stg2.5 = Stg2 + Intercooler upgrade = still 210kw but stays there in hot wheather.
Stg 3= Stg2.5 + Turbo upgrade = 250kw+

You will need to do an exhaust for Stg3 OEM, will not do. Exhaust not included with Stg 3 unfortunately. Its a seperate item.....


Stage 1 with fuel pump upgrade and intake (which I think is pretty much stage 2?) should be enough for 220kw @ the crank.

Pretty sure stage 3 comes with the exhaust and should be good for close to 300kw I imagine.

The TSI engines (MK6 GTI and Tiguans) have the upgraded fuelpump already so no need for that.

[Pullstarter]

The TSI engines (MK6 GTI and Tiguans) have the upgraded fuelpump already so no need for that.

Hmm, someone should probably tell my APR dealer this then as he's under the impression the APR modded pump will get me an extra 20kw.

[Sharkie]

Hmm, someone should probably tell my APR dealer this then as he's under the impression the APR modded pump will get me an extra 20kw.

Trying to sell you something you don't need? ... or genuinely don't know? On the old GTI (Mk5) engine yes, but not the new TSIs I'm afraid.

Give Guy a call direct and have a chat to him about it.

PS ... tell him you want a downpipe as well while you're at it ... :)

[jimbomort]

Oh yes and forgot to mention i've had the APR stage I software put on my 125TSI Tiguan and the performance is outstanding.

Currently 190kw and wanting more.......

Having now tested out the get up and go on our APR stage 1 Tig, oh yeah totally agree, there is some serious get up and go there now :driver: and yes, should have done the torque arm insert same time, anyway will get that done in due course.

Of course the problem with power, well if you can call it a problem, is the more you have the more you want :biggrin: Still the APR stage 1 upgrade is such an improvement, at such a reasonable cost, are not further upgrades going to look expensive and poor value by comparison? Anyway that would be my dilemma, be nice to have more, but improvements from here on in are going to be significantly less dramatic and significantly more expensive to boot, and realistically, requiring a range of other mods to tyres and suspension to handle it. All good of course, and I'll keep posted with this thread, but probably count me out on making up the numbers for any further mods.

[jimbomort]

Demonstrated some of the get up and go of the Tig with APR stage 1 to my father and brother in Sydney recently - they were very impressed :bowdown: and that was with coming in with high expectations :cool:(as I had talked a lot about prior).

Agree too with a much earlier post I believe by CLIP on the Torque, from 2000 rpm on, the Torque is phenomenal - coming back from Sydney too far northern NSW there was not one hill on the pacific hwy that was remotely a struggle for the Tig at 100 in 6th (2000rpm), indeed you could feel the cruise backing off everytime on the hills, there was plenty to spare. Not only that but very few times where overtaking in anything but 6th was necessary - which made for a very relaxing trip. Of course I will be looking for excuses to use 4th for overtaking, lots of fun to be had there.

What I like most though is the oomph from launch - 1st gear is gone before you know it and 2nd winds out very quickly also. Be good to get a video of the speedo and tacko winding out from 0-100 (at Lakeside or the like). Nothing like a visual to give people the idea :banana:.

Shame though, that 1st wont get you too 60 or 2nd to 100, reckon it would be even quicker if didn't need to grab 3rd. Not that I have a lot too compare it with, but 6 seconds neat for 0-100 feels quite believable.

[Sharkie]

Over the Christmas period I have acquired the latest GTech-Pro SS and will be using it to do some performance tests ......

The Gtech-Pro SS is promised to be accurate to within 0.1s 0-100km/h and 400m.

Will be taking it with on my "test" drives of other cars as well and will be starting a log of what performs how ..... happy to post results from time to time in the future ......


Shame though, that 1st wont get you too 60 or 2nd to 100, reckon it would be even quicker if didn't need to grab 3rd. Not that I have a lot too compare it with, but 6 seconds neat for 0-100 feels quite believable.

I'm investigating changing the ratios in the manual gbox slightly. Will likely only implement once its out of warranty, but still be good to know its possible.:cool:

[clip]

Love your work sharkie, love your work! :bowdown:

eidt: just talking about the gearing today with some other guys. It would be so good to have taller gearing in 1st and 2nd - would just finish the car off as a total (and quite possibly, unbeatable) performance SUV package - at least in our opinion.

[juv3]

is this apr upgrade only available for 103TDI and 125TSI?
or also available for 147TSI

thanks

[team_v]

APR chip is for 125TSI and 147TSI

Oettinger do a chip for the 103TDI to bump it up to 125kw.

[Arctra]

is this apr upgrade only available for 103TDI and 125TSI?
or also available for 147TSI

thanks

It's not available on the 103TDI - the oil burners need an Oettinger remap.

The 125TSI and 147TSI are pretty much identical units and the remap is available for both of them I believe. You just won't notice as much of a difference as you would coming from a 125TSI, but you will beel the difference.

[clip]

Once again, the 125 and 147 are identical engines - just that the 147 has a different map. Both put out same torque of 280Nm. As they are the same, they both remap to the same power figures of 190kW and 400Nm. Some others here (Sharkie and Pullstarter that I know of) have added a cold air intake which takes them to around the 200kW mark.

The remap is a no-brainer if you have a 125 or 147, and I'd make that the APR version, not the Oettinger (I've had both, and the APR is a much better map).

I have no experience with the TDI's, but believe the Oettinger is the way to go for them.

edit: as Acrtra said, beat me to it :)

[Arctra]

edit: as Arctra said, beat me to it :)

I WIN!!! :clap:

I just did a quick look on the 103TDI and it seems to have the identicle engine to the Golf MkVI 103TDI. But what I find strange on the Oettinger.com website (because the .com.au one isn't up yet) is that although the map graphs are identicle, the Tiguan remap costs 200 Euro more. How the hell does that work? Same engine, but because the it's in a Tig it's more expensive. :confused:

I didn't get to check out a remapped TDI when I was up in QLD... I had the contact but just didn't find the time. Am still really keen to see what the performance difference is like. If anyone in Sydney's had their TDI chipped, please let me know.

[team_v]

I WIN!!! :clap:

I just did a quick look on the 103TDI and it seems to have the identicle engine to the Golf MkVI 103TDI. But what I find strange on the Oettinger.com website (because the .com.au one isn't up yet) is that although the map graphs are identicle, the Tiguan remap costs 200 Euro more. How the hell does that work? Same engine, but because the it's in a Tig it's more expensive. :confused:

I didn't get to check out a remapped TDI when I was up in QLD... I had the contact but just didn't find the time. Am still really keen to see what the performance difference is like. If anyone in Sydney's had their TDI chipped, please let me know.

Could be due to the extra research having to go into the 4Motion system in the Tig that isn't in the Golf.

Could also be due to adjustments in engine components due to sizing constraints such as downpipes and the like.

[Pullstarter]

Has anyone got a rough idea of the power output at the wheels with the APR remap? Thinking of getting a dyno run done and want to know what sort of front wheel kws I should be getting :D

[Sharkie]

Has anyone got a rough idea of the power output at the wheels with the APR remap? Thinking of getting a dyno run done and want to know what sort of front wheel kws I should be getting :D

Around 155kw at the front wheels with your setup.:cool:

[Pullstarter]

Thanks Johan, will report back when I get her done :) Apparently there's a plug I need to pull out on the rear diff so it's only fwd? Will ask Guy just to make sure, don't want it to launch off the dyno! :emo_baghead:

[clip]

Simon, as we know, dyno's inheritanlty give quite large variations in readings depending on a whole range of influences and circumstances at the time. So be great if you could set it back to stock map, do a run, then straight away switch up to performance map and compare the differences. That will give really good indication of what's happening.

[Pullstarter]

Simon, as we know, dyno's inheritanlty give quite large variations in readings depending on a whole range of influences and circumstances at the time. So be great if you could set it back to stock map, do a run, then straight away switch up to performance map and compare the differences. That will give really good indication of what's happening.

Good point John, I'll see if I can do exactly that if I can remember how to switch it :banana:

[Guy_H]

I WIN!!! :clap:

I just did a quick look on the 103TDI and it seems to have the identicle engine to the Golf MkVI 103TDI. But what I find strange on the Oettinger.com website (because the .com.au one isn't up yet) is that although the map graphs are identicle, the Tiguan remap costs 200 Euro more. How the hell does that work? Same engine, but because the it's in a Tig it's more expensive. :confused:

I didn't get to check out a remapped TDI when I was up in QLD... I had the contact but just didn't find the time. Am still really keen to see what the performance difference is like. If anyone in Sydney's had their TDI chipped, please let me know.

Different engine Management EDC 16 vs EDC 17 - a whole different set of tools required.

[jimbomort]

Longer gear ratio's in the manual Tigs would be awesome ... but expensive I suppose ....

Probably a good reason not too?, but wouldn't it be cheaper just to change the final drive ratio. Not sure if a 10% increase would get both 60 in first and 100 in second, but would go close and only push 6th out to 55klm/hr/1000rpm, no more than the Diesel Tig, upgraded torque would easily handle that.

Gathered you've considered? Anyway if 1st and 2nd got longer legs, longer legs right thru the gears could make good sense, so a change in diff ratio would seem to have some merit and I presume much cheaper? main question perhaps is just how much increase is needed, too much and diff is probably out, if that is, not for other ......:brutal:

[clip]

...longer legs right thru the gears could make good sense,
not for me jim, sixth is already too tall for our low speed limits IMO. TBH, I rarley run in 6th unless it's on the flat in 110k zone (like Suny Coast to Bris). I got better economy driving down the New England Hwy from Toowoomba to Sydney using 5th most of the time travelling at the speed limit, than I did using 6th on the same trip 2 months later (I wanted to test the point myself).

3rd, 4th and 5th gears are awesome, perfect ratios IMO. But I'd love a taller 1st with a well matched 2nd to follow up.

Not sure how you could change final drive ratio, wouldn't that involve changing both front and rear diffs?

[jimbomort]

not for me jim, sixth is already too tall for our low speed limits IMO. TBH, I rarley run in 6th unless it's on the flat in 110k zone (like Suny Coast to Bris). I got better economy driving down the New England Hwy from Toowoomba to Sydney using 5th.......
Not sure how you could change final drive ratio, wouldn't that involve changing both front and rear diffs?

Clip yes I was thinking about it after I posted yesterday and as a 4wd probably means changing both front and rear diffs, so may not be that much of a saving in the end.

Anyway we all agree a taller 1st and 2nd would be good, variations in opinion on the other gears.

Interesting re fuel economy in 5th versus 6th. Cant say I've ever tested that, but from what I have seen on the MFD occassionally, sixth seems more economical at hwy speeds and should be. Your diff in fuel economy on the new england could be due to a range of factors - headwinds, direction (more uphill one way than the other), use of air con etc.

I'm in sixth regularly from 80-90, though it pulls cleanly from 75. Even at a 100, its virtually unstoppable in 6th (re hills), and plenty of go for most overtaking situations.

[jimbomort]

has anyone seen any specs for tiguan speed in gears or klm/1000 rpm for the Manual TSIs?

Having taken her for a blast last night:P, I am wondering now whether the gearing is even lower than I thought, especially in first and 2nd:frown:. I've searched the web a bit and called APR and cant find any such data. Best were some US specs for ratios, but without calculating tyre circumference etc still doesn't give you the figs and US spec may be slightly different anyway.

Secondly anyone tested/have any views on whether its worth taking the engine beyond 6000rpm, have wound it out a number of times, but not quite convinced the last 500 or so rpm are worth it (ie that upchanging at 6000rpm may give a better result than taking all the way to the redline).

SHARKIE - you do any acceleration fig testing yet?

[Pullstarter]

has anyone seen any specs for tiguan speed in gears or klm/1000 rpm for the Manual TSIs?

Having taken her for a blast last night:P, I am wondering now whether the gearing is even lower than I thought, especially in first and 2nd:frown:. I've searched the web a bit and called APR and cant find any such data. Best were some US specs for ratios, but without calculating tyre circumference etc still doesn't give you the figs and US spec may be slightly different anyway.

Secondly anyone tested/have any views on whether its worth taking the engine beyond 6000rpm, have wound it out a number of times, but not quite convinced the last 500 or so rpm are worth it (ie that upchanging at 6000rpm may give a better result than taking all the way to the redline).

SHARKIE - you do any acceleration fig testing yet?

I tend to agree Jimbo, not a lot above 6000rpm, even when going hard I tend to change around 5000rpm, seems to stay in the power band better that way.

[Guy_H]

Can someone send me a gearbox code for the 125kw (3 letters) - I will look up the differential ratio for you

[clip]

I tend to agree Jimbo, not a lot above 6000rpm, even when going hard I tend to change around 5000rpm, seems to stay in the power band better that way.
just a bunch of bloody rev heads you lot! :3gears:

It was interesting having tried the Oettinger map first. It was quite different to the APR - very good for high speed cruising in Germany I suspect, but next to usless out here. Off the mark, the APR would have it for breakfast, but up top, I'm not so sure.

[Pullstarter]

just a bunch of bloody rev heads you lot! :3gears:



That's a bad thing? :banana:

[Pullstarter]

Seems someone in the US has taken on building a DP for the Tig! Have a look at this;

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeropost?cmd=tshow&id=4729307

[team_v]

Seems someone in the US has taken on building a DP for the Tig! Have a look at this;

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeropost?cmd=tshow&id=4729307

Just saw that.
Finally a downpipe solution.

Sharkie and Clip are going to be stoked.
Can't wait to see how many kw it unlocks.

[Pullstarter]

Just saw that.
Finally a downpipe solution.

Sharkie and Clip are going to be stoked.
Can't wait to see how many kw it unlocks.

Me stoked also, LARGE PORTION!

[team_v]

Me stoked also, LARGE PORTION!

It does look very restrictive from the shots taken of the OEM kit.
The 125/147 could be getting close to 250 with APR 1, downpipe and intake.

[Pullstarter]

It does look very restrictive from the shots taken of the OEM kit.
The 125/147 could be getting close to 250 with APR 1, downpipe and intake.

I doubt you'd get that much, maybe 210-215 with the above mentioned mods. Just as well I'm getting dynoed next week, will have a benchmark :)

[Sharkie]

ECU, DP & Intake will only get you to around 210kw .... 215kw if you add some magic to the fuel :cool:

Not convinced to that DP as posted, as that was a hatchet job on the OEM DP. I would like to keep the OEM DP to be able to return it to stock at some point, so would need a new DP.

He also only removes the top small CAT so not so sure of the benefits (and legality) of it all.

I'm still waiting on someone to do a proper DP (split) ..... come on Guy .... :cool: