Cat amoungst the pigeons

[Arctra]

Now, from the outset, I am a VW fan, so please don't flame me (too much) for this post.

The Tiguan TDI is currently my first pic of vehicle, but my girlfriend got me to test drive the Renault Koleos as it seemed to fit our requirements. I was reluctant because it was Renault, but humored her only to be very surprised. Have any of you looked at it?

It seems the standard TDI 4x4 version roughly equates to a Tiguan TDI with comfort pack, media device interface, and offroad pack. It also has the option of a panoramic sunroof, but unfortunately lacks Park Assist. I've been quoted about $37000 for the Koleos, and a similar spec Tig is $41000 (after taking into account reduced dealer delivery charges and fleet discount) from Chatswood classic cars.

Now what I'm struggling with my girlfriend is justifying the price premium of the Tig over the Renault.

My arguments of build quality are somewhat squashed by the fact that the Koleos is effectively an X-Trail with improved shell and interior, and the Japanese technology is very good.

Servicing costs are about the same for both, except the Tig can go a further 5000km/6months between services which is an extra point for it.

The Tig had better handling and performance, but not a whole lot better.

Options like towbar and parking sensors are cheaper on the Renault, but the Tig's park assist option is in a class of its own.

The cloth trim in the Tig were superior to the Renault's IMO, but the Renault's had a lighter spacier feeling interior with nice little things like back window shades, back seat rear-view mirror, back seat trays (which are only available with leather in the Tig).

Luggage capacity wise the back seats folded down flatter in the Renault and gave much better space in the back than the Tig, in spite of having a full sized spare. The Koleos also has a tailgate arrangement which from experience is useful as a table when out and about.

So I guess my question to you VW enthusiasts is, can you help me justify the extra cost? PLEASE!

[High-Fidelity]

Will the fact that it's dog ugly help persuade her?

[Arctra]

Will the fact that it's dog ugly help persuade her?

*LOL* Actually, I kind of disagree with you there. I don't think it looks bad at all. But even if it did, I'm not sure that'd be enough on its own to justify it.

[Golf Houso]

Also keep in mind the resale value of the Renault will be nowhere near that of a Tig, and the fact that the tig is a VW. I think that should be more than enough reason to bridge the 4k gap...

[Transporter]

Availability of the spare parts incl. panels just incase...
Peugeot and Renault are known that you wait up to 3months for some parts to arrive from Europe. VW keeps more stock. You find more mechanics for VW than Renault.
I'm in the same situation like you except I'm making the decision between Tig and Forester. Talking about Japanese reliability: in long term for me I would be happy to go for Forester and I still didn't look at the Koleos. My first car was Renault12, so I like Renaults too. When It come to choosing one it is a hard decision at the moment I'm more keen on TIG awaiting Forester diesel to arrive late this year. I will take for test drive Koleos as well. But it seems to me that TIG Forester and Koleos could be close in many things but when it comes to parts and service availability Forester has the edge. Handling performance could be a bit of let down on Forester since it is tall and light but hey it is a small SUV and not a racing car.
I agree with that the Koleos is ugly but one can get used to it.
Go for TIG it is probably better build out of all 3.
Did you notice that nobody any fault or problem on TIG, yet, which is a good sign.

[varsur]

Also keep in mind the resale value of the Renault will be nowhere near that of a Tig, and the fact that the tig is a VW. I think that should be more than enough reason to bridge the 4k gap...

I cant agree more.

[Arctra]

Availability of the spare parts incl. panels just incase...
Peugeot and Renault are known that you wait up to 3months for some parts to arrive from Europe. VW keeps more stock. You find more mechanics for VW than Renault.
<snip>
Did you notice that nobody any fault or problem on TIG, yet, which is a good sign.

Now that's something I hadn't considered! And although you never plan to have a smash, they happen, so that's a good argument. As for the parts, because the chassis and drive train are essentially X-Trail, I am lead to believe a lot of the parts are interchangeable. That's unsubstantiated, but sounds plausible.

As for faults, it's something there is very little info available on the Koleos for, so it is a concern.



I'm in the same situation like you except I'm making the decision between Tig and Forester.
<snip>
I will take for test drive Koleos as well. But it seems to me that TIG Forester and Koleos could be close in many things but when it comes to parts and service availability Forester has the edge. Handling performance could be a bit of let down on Forester since it is tall and light but hey it is a small SUV and not a racing car.


Although I liked the get-up-and-go of the Subaru, and the Jap aspect of it, we were put off by the ride quality and cabin noise. Have fun test driving it though.


I cant agree more.

I have been using that argument too, and it's a solid argument. I'm not sure if the argument is diluted at all by the fact that I intend keeping it 7 odd years, so the values of both will have fallen significantly, but my gut feel is the Tig will still hold its value better.

[Spook]

Does it matter that the Koleos is made in Korea and the Tiguan is from Germany?

[Arctra]

Does it matter that the Koleos is made in Korea and the Tiguan is from Germany?

Yes, it does. Thanks, another point to the Tig. Keep it coming! :biggrin:

[Transporter]

As for the parts, because the chassis and drive train are essentially X-Trail, I am lead to believe a lot of the parts are interchangeable. That's unsubstantiated, but sounds plausible.

As for faults, it's something there is very little info available on the Koleos for, so it is a concern.

Not the body parts.

Probably any good VW mechanic will have VCDS (Vag-com). Renault diagnostic software?... most likely dealers only.

Did you go on Renault forum to check what people who bought the Koleos had to say about it? You can check also Australian XTrail forum.

[Transporter]

Does it matter that the Koleos is made in Korea and the Tiguan is from Germany?

To me - it does matter.

[STV4SYT]

Resale, Resale, Resale.....

[VW Convert]

Servicing costs are about the same for both, except the Tig can go a further 5000km/6months between services which is an extra point for it.


I have been using that argument too, and it's a solid argument. I'm not sure if the argument is diluted at all by the fact that I intend keeping it 7 odd years, so the values of both will have fallen significantly, but my gut feel is the Tig will still hold its value better.

Over 7 years, with there being three services on the Koleos for every two on the Tig, depending on Kms travelled, you would recover a fair chunk of the price difference between the two just on servicing costs. Does that help? :biggrin:

Cheers

George

[Sanman]

Park assist for $1400 is available for the Tiguan (self steering parallel parking).
When I went though the Kaleos standard model option list, I found that it forced me to up-spec to the 4WD super duper version, which made it too expensive. check out what is standard and what is left out on the cheaper model.

[Spook]

To me - it does matter.

x2 that.
.

[Philbie]

I don't think there is much to compare. galvanized body, glazerate (spelling??) Paint, German build, No nonsense warranty, resale, and the list goes on.......VW just make it better!

if you don't want the VW, save the money and buy a TI X-trail!

[clip]

Koleos = Nissan

Koleos uses same underpinnings as the Nissan Dualis.

I'll pass thanks. If I want a Nissan, I'll buy a Nissan.

[Transporter]

Tiguan's timing belt on diesel engine never needs replacing.
http://www.atzonline.com/index.php;do=show/site=a4e/sid=18363641734a07fc8ad9252938507026/alloc=1/id=9123

and a bit of reading about Koleos too :eek: sorry I couldn't resist :)
Koleos
http://www.atzonline.com/index.php;do=show/site=a4e/sid=18363641734a07fc8ad9252938507026/alloc=1/id=7421

[Arctra]

OK, so I've been trawling the web and forums trying to get more info on the Renault and the Tig, and now have quotes in as well.

Seems if I go for the Tig, for 3k more we get sunroof and park assist, but lose off-road pack equivalent on the Renault, but gain a lot of peace of mind with the mechanical side of the VW.

Although the offroad pack is only $300 it brings a lot to the table that is desirable, but unfortunately the lack of availablity of TDI's with the offroad pack int he country means I'd have to wait 4-5 months to get a vehicle. I don't think it's worth it.

You think I'm on the right track?

[varsur]

OK, so I've been trawling the web and forums trying to get more info on the Renault and the Tig, and now have quotes in as well.

Seems if I go for the Tig, for 3k more we get sunroof and park assist, but lose off-road pack equivalent on the Renault, but gain a lot of peace of mind with the mechanical side of the VW.

Although the offroad pack is only $300 it brings a lot to the table that is desirable, but unfortunately the lack of availablity of TDI's with the offroad pack int he country means I'd have to wait 4-5 months to get a vehicle. I don't think it's worth it.

You think I'm on the right track?

I think its worth a wait. I am waiting for my TDI which I ordered in February and will be delivered in June.

[Golf Houso]

Tiguan's timing belt on diesel engine never needs replacing.
http://www.atzonline.com/index.php;do=show/site=a4e/sid=18363641734a07fc8ad9252938507026/alloc=1/id=9123



Haha I've heard that one from VW before! They also said that fuel filters on the MK3 golfs were a "lifetime" item, all I know is that when I replaced the one in my VR6 the fuel would only trickle out of it one way :eek:

[Transporter]

OK, so I've been trawling the web and forums trying to get more info on the Renault and the Tig, and now have quotes in as well.

Seems if I go for the Tig, for 3k more we get sunroof and park assist, but lose off-road pack equivalent on the Renault, but gain a lot of peace of mind with the mechanical side of the VW.

Although the offroad pack is only $300 it brings a lot to the table that is desirable, but unfortunately the lack of availablity of TDI's with the offroad pack int he country means I'd have to wait 4-5 months to get a vehicle. I don't think it's worth it.

You think I'm on the right track?


You may regret it later. It is worth it mate, you buy a car for a long time and the time flies. I wouldn’t buy sunroof, but it’s me. :)

[Transporter]

Haha I've heard that one from VW before! They also said that fuel filters on the MK3 golfs were a "lifetime" item, all I know is that when I replaced the one in my VR6 the fuel would only trickle out of it one way :eek:

Time has changed, today’s materials are better than these 15 or more years ago, plus our quality fuels can't compete with EU fuels. :biggrin: Cars in EU don't last as long as in OZ. :)

[clip]

plus our quality fuels can't compete with EU fuels. :biggrin: Cars in EU don't last as long as in OZ. :)
Transporter, I've heard this before, can you explain about the fuel differences?

[Pullstarter]

Is there really any comparison between these two vehicles? Surely not? One is french after all :wasntme:

[Golf Houso]

Time has changed, today’s materials are better than these 15 or more years ago, plus our quality fuels can't compete with EU fuels. :biggrin: Cars in EU don't last as long as in OZ. :)

Well considering that my fuel filter is the same one used in a 2004 B5.5 passat, I'd love to think that was the case, but I don't think it is :frown: Just more spin from VW in an attempt to justify their massive margins on consumables...

[Transporter]

Transporter, I've heard this before, can you explain about the fuel differences?

Petrol has higher content of the sulfur and less octane in OZ than in EU.
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/standards/petrol/index.html

Diesel has lower cetane no. in OZ than in EU and in the past had always much higher sulfur content.

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/fuels.html

[Spook]

By the way, came across this article from goauto. Interesting reading:
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/74358BC51DCAC91DCA2575B3001F3550

Forester chops down rivals in compact SUV class

By IAN PORTER 11 May 2009


A LOOK at the sales charts for small SUVs in Australia makes fascinating reading, with Subaru now the sole brand – with the one-year-old Forester – to consistently lead this segment.

Only a few years ago, it was a battleground between Subaru, Toyota (RAV4), Nissan (X-Trail) and Honda (CR-V).

These stalwarts of the segment are still prominent, but they appear to be gradually converging at what can be seen as a respectful distance behind the segment leader.

The Forester has been the best-selling compact SUV every month bar one in the past 12 months – basically since the new model was launched in February 2008.

The Subaru SUV stands alone as the only model to pass the 1000-sales mark every month. It has been beaten only once, by the RAV4 in December.

When the smaller Outback – also in this segment – is taken into account, Subaru has so far sold slightly more compact SUVs than it did in the first four months of 2008.

That’s impressive, given that overall segment sales are down 15.8 per cent YTD, athough it should be noted that this segment is doing better than the whole market, which is down 20.3 per cent YTD.

Behind the Forester, the spread among the remaining 20-plus model field is evening out.

The RAV4 has been the best of the rest for some time, but it is now under heavy pressure from Hyundai and its Tucson, a not-unfamiliar situation in other parts of the market. The Tucson has a little more artillery in terms of specification variety than the RAV4, thanks to the availability of a 2WD-only spec.

Although it had a big wobble in the third quarter of 2008 and dropped several places, the small South Korean SUV has since recovered to overtake the CR-V and take third place behind the RAV4.

Despite the dogfight happening behind the Forester, one thing is for certain: everyone is watching the latest entrant to this pound, the Volkswagen Tiguan.

The Tiguan is VW’s first attempt in this segment and, while early acceptance was limited by a lack of supply, 11 months after launch it is now jostling with the Nissan, the Mitsubishi and the Honda for fourth place in the segment.

Another new entrant which arrived with great expectations was the Renault Koleos, although it has only managed to achieve about half the French manufacturer’s forecast 150 sales a month, which was considered conservative at September’s launch.

The compact SUVs have been the beneficiaries of the swing away from large sixes as user-choosers look for something that’s useful in leisure time as well.

This has played into Subaru’s hands, according to spokesman David Rowley.

“Although it is larger, the new Forester is not considered too big, according to our research, and we are attracting more female buyers,” he said.

“We also win fleet sales with our five-star crash rating, which is important to the occupational health and safety department.

“But for business buyers, our strong retained value is a big attraction, producing good whole-of-life costs.” Models that did not quite get onto the chart above are the Grand Vitara, which is still punching out more than 300 units a month and Mazda’s CX-7, which is averaging 290.

Perhaps the big surprise is that Kia’s Sportage, one of the few compact SUVs to offer a diesel, can barely make the top 10.

[NZTiguan]

Perhaps the big surprise is that Kia’s Sportage, one of the few compact SUVs to offer a diesel, can barely make the top 10.

What's the surprise ??? It's a POS and everybody knows it. Weird really when the Sorento is pretty darn good value in the diesel stakes that the Sportage is so rubbish !!

As far as Tiguan vs Forester goes the Forester will always have more sales cos it's cheaper and roomier therefore better bang for your buck for families.

[gerhard]

To find an example of the brilliance of Renault engineering, Google "change headlight bulb renault megane"

Besides, wasn't it the French who insisted on blowing nuclear bombs in our backyard, in spite of our requests for them to stop.

Don't buy a French bomb and put profits in their pockets, I say.

[Pullstarter]

To find an example of the brilliance of Renault engineering, Google "change headlight bulb renault megane"

Besides, wasn't it the French who insisted on blowing nuclear bombs in our backyard, in spite of our requests for them to stop.

Don't buy a French bomb and put profits in their pockets, I say.

Don't forget the bombing of the Greenpeace ship "Rainbow Warrior" in Auckland Harbour I think it was which killed two people also, although they still deny it of course.

[Transporter]

Oops... Oh... my...good ... we ...are ...driving the German cars. :biggrin::biggrin:

[clip]

Oops... Oh... my...good ... we ...are ...driving the German cars. :biggrin::biggrin:
shhhh, "don't mention the Germans..." :rolllaugh:

[gerhard]

Haha, I can say that, 'cause I'm German :biggrin:

[Pullstarter]

Yeah but that was umm.............like a really long time ago :biggrin:

[clip]

I got it wrong anyway. It think Basil actually said: "don't mention the war..." :)

[WEDEL.1]

Lets get back on track please.

Maris

[docjames]

Fankly, if all else is equal, it comes down to one thing: resale.

The resale on renaults is lousy. Ask youself who's likely to want it in 3/5/10 years?

Thus, easily justifying the higher purchase price of the Tig.