No more Skoda dealers in WA

[indulis]

:eek:

Just as Skoda is ramping up its marketing in WA, found out that VW Osborne Park (the only Skoda dealer in WA) is no longer selling Skoda or supplying spare parts (rang up to check a part cost just for interest).

[Rocket]

:eek:

Just as Skoda is ramping up its marketing in WA, found out that VW Osborne Park is no longer dealing in Skoda or supplying spare parts (rang up to check a part cost).

Thats interesting, what happens for your servicing/parts?

I wonder if thats an indication of direction Skoda is heading in Aus? Would have thought it was going well?

[jacob_1987]

wow, that is a real concern. I sometimes think Skoda isn't very sustaininable even though driving an Octavia myself. I don't know any sales professionals here, some input would be good.

[indulis]

If I could still get the Octavia serviced in WA then I'd be happy to source one from another state.

I just noticed a bus shelter at Cottesloe beach on Sunday with a big Skoda ad. Bit of a waste I think.

Or an opportunity to start a dealership ;-)

[mrx]

Interesting. I wonder what we're supposed to do if warranty work is required, unless someone else is taking on the Skoda dealership? It would be really good if you could take it to a registered mechanic of your choice for warranty stuff! All of the parts except for the body/interior are the same as VW's anyway, so parts aren't really a problem. I guess body parts would just have to come from Sydney - which is where OS Park used to get them anyway, since they carry no stock of anything. For servicing mine goes to Golfwagen anyway.

[gregozedobe]

I had a vague idea that manufacturers/importers had a statutory obligation to supply parts for cars they sold for at least 5 years or somesuch. Might be a trifle difficult for WA residents if there aren't any dealers.

Of course OP might be going to be replaced by a new Skoda dealer in Perth (I hope so, for our WA members sakes at least).

[indulis]

Seemed to me that with a part time sales person who lived at the VW dealership down the road, and a dusty selection of vehicles, that the Skodas were sold despite the half-hearted efforts of VW Osborne Park, not because of them.

[faisan]

I reckon the warranty and service will be looked after by VW OP across the road. Seems like the logical solution.

[mrx]

Seemed to me that with a part time sales person who lived at the VW dealership down the road, and a dusty selection of vehicles, that the Skodas were sold despite the half-hearted efforts of VW Osborne Park, not because of them.

When we bought ours there were two sales staff and the aftermarket sales person permanently at the dealership. The only person they had to import was the finance "guru", and they should have left him down the road anyway! That must have been the "glory days".


I reckon the warranty and service will be looked after by VW OP across the road. Seems like the logical solution.

It has been to date, Skoda only had a showroom up the road, not their own service department, but how can they keep servicing the vehicles if they don't have spare parts for them?

[indulis]

The person in parts that I spoke to must have got it wrong. Osborne Park VW owned the Skoda dealership, they closed the Skoda dealership, but Osborne Park VW will still service Skodas bought from them or from any other Skoda dealer. I called them this morning and confirmed this.

So that is good, as I am happy to source a Skoda outside of the state, if I can get service for it in Perth.

[mrx]

Personally I would avoid the dealership for servicing, there are other independents that are cheaper and provide better service, and are actually interested in what they are doing. Warranty work, yeah, you're screwed for that and have to go to a dealer.

[VW Convert]

Of course OP might be going to be replaced by a new Skoda dealer in Perth (I hope so, for our WA members sakes at least).

If Skoda are to retain any credibility appointing a new dealer would have to be a priority. Things are difficult for dealers at the moment and Skoda sales volume would appear to be insufficient to justify a stand alone dealership. I wonder whether VAG would consider its products being sold through a multi franchise dealer? I have my doubts that they would.

Cheers

George

[brad]

I wonder whether VAG would consider its products being sold through a multi franchise dealer? I have my doubts that they would.
AFAIK, they already sell via multi-franchise.

In Sydney:

The guy on parramatta rd sells Mitsubishi.
The Penrith Nepean Group (are they still operating?) sold 8 (?) other marques.
The Campbelltown dealers sells VW, Holden, Mitsubishi, Hyundai


I don't think there are any "stand alone" Skoda dealerships...... or have I misunderstood the concept?

[VW Convert]

AFAIK, they already sell via multi-franchise.

In Sydney:

The guy on parramatta rd sells Mitsubishi.
The Penrith Nepean Group (are they still operating?) sold 8 (?) other marques.
The Campbelltown dealers sells VW, Holden, Mitsubishi, Hyundai


I don't think there are any "stand alone" Skoda dealerships...... or have I misunderstood the concept?

I must admit I wasn't aware of that Brad. If Skoda already deal through multi franchises it would make it less of a task to find a new WA dealer. I wonder if OPVW are planning to integrate Skoda sales into the VW dealership also?

Cheers

George

[mrx]

The Osborne Park dealership consists of a Subaru & VW dealership right next door to each other (sharing the same service/parts department). The Skoda dealership was an annex a few hundred metres up the road, with a showroom only. It is part of the AHG group which sells pretty much everything.

[gregozedobe]

In Canberra Lennocks sell Nissans, VWs, Skodas and Used cars. They have adjacent new car showrooms for Nissan and VW, with one service dept. Skodas were sold out of the Used Cars "Office", but have recently moved to a separate showroom about 300M down the road, which they share with Jaguar/Land Rover.

[mrgolf]

VW Aus wont allow a situation to occur where servicing and parts are not available for a brand they are still trying to grow. The dealership may be closing down, but as others have suggested, another dealership will open up, or VW will look after the WA owners.

[brad]

VW Aus wont allow a situation to occur where servicing and parts are not available for a brand they are still trying to grow. The dealership may be closing down, but as others have suggested, another dealership will open up, or VW will look after the WA owners.

How many years do you think they can afford to sell ~60 cars a month? IIRC Puegeot reckon 200 per month was the rollover point where the cost of business/marketing etc amortised big time & profits started to grow exponentially. Below that & you were treading water.

I noticed the advertising has started to mention "Volkswagen Technology" which they appeared to be avoiding at the start.

[mrgolf]

I agree, but VW didnt launch the car just to pull it because sales were affected by a global downturn. VW are in for the long haul. I would say that the current level of sales will prolly linger for a few more years so they can see how sales will go in a normal market. VW have invested a lot of money to bring the product here. They wont write the money off til they are able to be sure a normal market wont support the product. VW is still a growing brand in Australia at the moment, supporting the theory that Australians are looking for smaller quality euro-ish cars. While there is demand, there is hope. Skoda just needs a small foothold.

Either way, VW brought the brand to Australia unlike Seat in the 90's. When Seat folded, there was no one to back up the brand with parts because it was a private importer. VW are responsible for the car, so ongoing support is in the bag while ever VW is on sale in Australia.

[faisan]

In Canberra Lennocks sell Nissans, VWs, Skodas and Used cars. They have adjacent new car showrooms for Nissan and VW, with one service dept. Skodas were sold out of the Used Cars "Office", but have recently moved to a separate showroom about 300M down the road, which they share with Jaguar/Land Rover.

Funnily enough, Skoda was next door to Nissan here in WA too. It was Skoda, Hyundai, and Nissan sharing a big lot.

[mrx]

Funnily enough, Skoda was next door to Nissan here in WA too. It was Skoda, Hyundai, and Nissan sharing a big lot.

Not part of the same dealership though.

[faisan]

Not part of the same dealership though.

Arent they all AHG?

[mrx]

As far as I understand it the dealerships are still individually owned but come under the AHG umbrella. Much like Auto One stores are individually owned but get together for greater buying power.

Janetto Holdings (I think it's called) owns Subaru, VW & Skoda Osborne Park & I think they might also own the new Gnangara dealership.

[geoff_gti]

I've seen a couple of those new ads in various bus bays as well - http://eatmyhat.com.au/
I'd expect any of the VW dealers could pick up servicing duties, or the specialists as well.

[mrx]

Yeah, I've seen the ads on the bus shelters too. Seems strange they would start advertising just as the brand disappears? I wouldn't be surprised if another dealership pops up in the near future.

I wonder if Skoda Australia know Osb. Park has pulled the pin?! They still list them as a dealer on the website.

[davidh]

I phoned Skoda's Australian headquarters after frustrations with the Osborne Park dealership, and they said they were trying to open up a new dealership in June/July, which will hopefully coincide with the Superb.
Various "Skoda" salesmen at VW Osborne Park over the past month have told me:
1. They will only sell 2008 models, not 2009
2. I am wasting my time looking at Skoda because they have poor resale value
3. Skoda should only ever have imported the Fabia to Australia
4. I should be looking at a Jetta or Passat
5. They hate dealing with Skoda headquarters because they get no support or information

They did not tell me the dealership was being dropped. I found that out separately. And the local newspapers are advertising the new 7speed DSG Octavia (2009) even though they refuse to sell it.

I don't agree with anything the dealer has said, but as someone wanting to buy a Skoda in the next few months, it is making my life difficult and worrying.

[brad]

Various "Skoda" salesmen at VW Osborne Park over the past month have told me:
1. They will only sell 2008 models, not 2009
2. I am wasting my time looking at Skoda because they have poor resale value
3. Skoda should only ever have imported the Fabia to Australia
4. I should be looking at a Jetta or Passat
5. They hate dealing with Skoda headquarters because they get no support or information

.
1) Stock situation seems all over the shop.
2) How would anyone know? The number that have been bought & subsequently sold would be statistically unreliable.
3) Maybe
4) Well, maybe if you want a sedan or a substantially bigger wagon. If you want a Golf with a bigger hatch area & full size spare..... Octavia!
5) That's probably a fair comment. I get the same feedback consistenly & experienced the same thing myself. Head Office are hopeless.

[davidh]

1) Stock situation seems all over the shop.
2) How would anyone know? The number that have been bought & subsequently sold would be statistically unreliable.
3) Maybe
4) Well, maybe if you want a sedan or a substantially bigger wagon. If you want a Golf with a bigger hatch area & full size spare..... Octavia!
5) That's probably a fair comment. I get the same feedback consistenly & experienced the same thing myself. Head Office are hopeless.

I recognise points 1 and 5 are realistic pain points, which is part of my concern. I think point 2 is a ridiculous comment given there are hardly any 2nd hand ones on the market and they are all priced quite close to new ones. The salesman was trying to put me off Skoda, and believed based on the first year of stats that you would have to keep it for 10 years.

On points 3 and 4, I am waiting for the Superb, which is as far from a Fabia as you can get.

[geoff_gti]

I've seen a couple of those new ads in various bus bays as well - http://eatmyhat.com.au/
I'd expect any of the VW dealers could pick up servicing duties, or the specialists as well.

Do those headlights on the new Octavia look frighteningly like a Holden Epica to anyone else? :duh:

[dasauto]

Side note to this thread, I spotted the new Octavia on Perth roads this week. Interesting with no Skoda dealer...

[woofy]

Skoda HQ in Australia are actually VW....so funny they say that. I get bad service from them, but that would also apply to the VW counterparts...they are the same guys..they don't have a separate team.

Skoda in CR are actually quite good they have answered everything i ever ask, and to boot most of it is answered by females I'd like to think are dead sexy....same as the tour guides....lol

[brad]

to boot most of it is answered by females I'd like to think are dead sexy.

Skoda International Customer Service Team:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/05/100_1612JPG-1.jpg

[Rocket]

Skoda International Customer Service Team:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/05/100_1612JPG-1.jpg

:frown: :moonie:

[Buster]

As far as I understand it the dealerships are still individually owned but come under the AHG umbrella. Much like Auto One stores are individually owned but get together for greater buying power.

Janetto Holdings (I think it's called) owns Subaru, VW & Skoda Osborne Park & I think they might also own the new Gnangara dealership.

AHG is an ASX listed, public company that owns many dealerships throughout Australia and New Zealand. There are no individual owners of their dealerships MRX. Wangara Volkswagen is part of the Automotive Holdings Group whose head office is in Perth.

[mrx]

Fair enough, so the way I understood it is wrong. My assumption arose from being told by the people at the Skoda dealership that they were in no way affiliated with the dealership next door, and were part of the same dealership as Subaru/VW down the road. Also, when you purchase a car from them the cheque is written out to Janetto holdings, not AHG. :?

[MJKooLio]

So now how am I going to buy a new Octavia vRS (2009 model) if there is no dealership? I go to europe for 3 weeks, see Fabias, Octavias fromthe first ones to the recently launched versions, enjoy their beauty + the Supurbs and now hear the only Perth dealer has CLOSED? :brutal:

[brad]

So now how am I going to buy a new Octavia vRS (2009 model) if there is no dealership? I go to europe for 3 weeks, see Fabias, Octavias fromthe first ones to the recently launched versions, enjoy their beauty + the Supurbs and now hear the only Perth dealer has CLOSED? :brutal:
Ring an Eastern States dealer, organise, deal, get it trucked over or get a plane ticket & drive back.

That's what they do in Darwin - bring cars up from Melbourne or Adelaide & it's still cheaper than the local dealer who thinks they have a monopoly on the market.

[MJKooLio]

Ring an Eastern States dealer, organise, deal, get it trucked over or get a plane ticket & drive back.

That's what they do in Darwin - bring cars up from Melbourne or Adelaide & it's still cheaper than the local dealer who thinks they have a monopoly on the market.

Wow - really?!?!

What about the last stock they have/had at the dealership? They sell them as 2nd hand at the VW dealer down the road? :( I'm saddened to hear this, but June/July I just read they will open another dealership?

Perhaps make it with VW/Subaru?

[OvaltoJetta]

Funnily enough, Skoda was next door to Nissan here in WA too. It was Skoda, Hyundai, and Nissan sharing a big lot.


Skoda OP was part of VW / Subaru OP. They are all part of the AHG group who also own VW Wangarra and heaps of other brands as well ... as you may already know.

[mrx]

I walked past the Osb Park VW & ex Skoda dealerships today while waiting for some tyres to be fitted. The old Skoda dealership is in the process of being converted to a Chrysler / Dodge dealership. They have three registered demo diesel Octavias and an unregistered vRS on display at the main VW showroom. It seems they are still selling them. According to the parts dude a new DVG dealership will be opening up soon, and they'll keep selling them at least until then.

[NicZA]

Canning Skoda for Chrysler???
Great more american junk on the roads :bangheadwall:
I bought 2 cars through that skoda dealership, personally think its very short-sighted of them.

[mrx]

I think selling the Skoda's alongside the VW's is actually better, provided the salespeople aren't "anti-Skoda". Most people I speak to have no idea what a Skoda is, and wouldn't bother looking if they haven't already heard about it. If it's right there, then it's easy - but yeah, they didn't really give it much of a go.

[faisan]

Why would they bother with another Dodge/Chrysler dealership? Do they even sell that many?

[davidh]

Chrysler wouldn't even survive without the merge with Fiat, and Fiat ranked last in the UK JD Power survey (Skoda has ranked among the top for a number of years).
If Skoda should be sold by VW dealers, then perhaps Fiat should sell Chrysler/Dodge? Then, as manufacturers continue to merge, we would only have to worry about a couple of dealers in total.
Disappointing outcome, and I hope Skoda still plans a presence in WA.

[gregozedobe]

..... I hope Skoda still plans a presence in WA.

According to my local Skoda salesman today there definitely will continue to be "someone" in WA selling new Skodas.

[indulis]

I think selling the Skoda's alongside the VW's is actually better, provided the salespeople aren't "anti-Skoda". Most people I speak to have no idea what a Skoda is, and wouldn't bother looking if they haven't already heard about it. If it's right there, then it's easy - but yeah, they didn't really give it much of a go.

They (AHG I am guessing) have let the Skoda dealership go- when the cars in stock are gone they wont be selling any more. The in stock cars are getting a bit long in the tooth with new model Octavias available over east, and new VRS manufacturing due to start in June.

I put in an offer on the blue VRS slightly below their "sale price" in the AHG 3 day sale 3 weeks ago, but they weren't willing to take it. They were stuck on "what the car owed them". I showed them low km demos (some really optioned up) on carsales for around $30k, and said it is about the value to me not the cost to them. Old model, been in stock for 6 months, no more dealership.

Oh well, I will patiently wait for the new VRS to be released on Oz and buy it from over east, or may take a 1.8 petrol DSG Octavia earlier, as from all accounts the new 1.8 L 118 KW engine with the new dry 7 speed DSG is pretty nice and gives the 125 KW diesel a run for its money for torque, with similar fuel economy and performance.

[mrx]

The Red Skoda RS wagon they used to have as a demo when we bought ours was passed in at auction for $30k, and then sold the week later privately. Sounds to me like someone picked up the bargain of the century. The trim was a little scuffed inside, but I'm sure it could have been fixed with the $15k saved on the regular drive away price!

[gregozedobe]

..... from all accounts the new 1.8 L 118 KW engine with the new dry 7 speed DSG is pretty nice and gives the 125 KW diesel a run for its money for torque, with similar fuel economy and performance.

IIRC the 1.8 TSI engine has its maximum torque at only 1,500rpm, which is significantly earlier than the TDI engines. Mind you, the CR version has less turbo lag than the previous PD 125Kw TDI (they were a bit "nothing, nothing, something, whack ! "

[davidh]

Now the Skoda website has dropped the Osborne Park dealership and the closest dealer by post code is South Australia - 2/3 the way across the country- 2700km away.

It would be nice to get someone who knows what is going on. I phoned Skoda, speaking to someone at the information centre, and they said "they would like to have a new dealer, but times are tough and not many want to invest right now."

That doesn't bode well for a car manufacturer that has pulled the pin on Australia before, and only returned at the height of the economic boom.

I have been waiting for the Superb. So now, to spend $50k on a car, I have to additionally travel interstate to test drive the car, then again to pick it up, pay freight, and have a very complicated warranty repair process.

[MJKooLio]

Spoke to Osbourne Prk VW earlier today this is what he wrote:




* Golf GTi should be here at the end of the year (we are hoping for November)

* The new Polo is expected to reach Australia’s shores around the same time – there was a big write up in Saturdays & Sundays newspapers – that’s where we get our info from; no details have been released as of yet.

* SKODA is going to be handled by the DVG Group.

[indulis]

I have been waiting for the Superb. So now, to spend $50k on a car, I have to additionally travel interstate to test drive the car, then again to pick it up, pay freight, and have a very complicated warranty repair process.

The warranty process should be straight forward- I asked VW Osborne Park when I was test driving one of their last Skodas and they confirmed what it says on the Oz Skoda web site FAQ page
http://www.skoda.com.au/faq.aspx

Can any Volkswagen dealer carry out servicing of Škoda vehicle?

As Volkswagen and Škoda are part of the same family – Volkswagen Group – and are sharing many technologies, any Volkswagen franchised dealer is qualified to service Škoda vehicles. Should you be unable to visit an official Škoda service centre, we do recommend a Volkswagen service centre as your next choice before taking your Škoda to any other service provider.

Just rang Skoda and any warranty repairs for Skoda are done by a VW dealer exactly as if the car was a VW, no additional processes required.

Skoda confirmed that there is a dealership prob opening in Perth late June or early July.

[davidh]

I contacted DVG Online, and their Online Coordinator gave me the most honest answer yet, compared with AHG and Skoda. He said there is basic approval for DVG to pick up the Skoda dealership, but they are yet to make a final decision. And he said if it does go through, it would be 2-3 months before they could supply a vehicle.
I will be keeping my eye on the DVG and Skoda websites for an announcement.
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a clearer plan, made public, rather than clandestine, effort-driven research by potential buyers?

[mrx]

Since DVG don't have any VW group dealerships hopefully they will be making a decent effort to sell some Skoda's & look after them properly?!

[gh172]

Update, new Skoda dealer in Melville opens next month!

[Jake02]

Yep, it opens on July 1st. Great news for the Skoda owners in WA, as well as Skoda Aus - means that they are possibly making money!

I was discussing sales a few months back with my dealer; apparently WA is number one in terms of sales! Despite Sydney having the most dealers...

[woofy]

Hmm I had a feeling the Bayford guys in Preston in Melb were, they were one of the first, and when I rang Skoda/VW HQ, he said they were the number one dealer still in Feb. I didn't get mine from there as a new one opened right near my work.

[gh172]

Yep, it opens on July 1st. Great news for the Skoda owners in WA, as well as Skoda Aus - means that they are possibly making money!

I was discussing sales a few months back with my dealer; apparently WA is number one in terms of sales! Despite Sydney having the most dealers...

Salesman at Volkswagen in Osborne Park told me they were struggling to move their stock. Probably might have something to do with the fact that they have not been advertising their cars here. Ironically I've seen more skoda press since Volkswagen closed Skoda than in the whole time they owned the dealership.

[indulis]

Salesman at Volkswagen in Osborne Park told me they were struggling to move their stock. Probably might have something to do with the fact that they have not been advertising their cars here.

Yeah, that or the fact that they tried to sell me the vRS on what "it owed them" rather than the reality of selling 6 month old stock, last year's model. They wanted to stick to $40K for the vRS wagon (diesel) that they had in stock ($27K changeover cost).

I've ended up with a demo 2008 2.0L diesel turbo (103 kw) sedan with DSG, xenons and sunroof, 5000 Km Sydney dealer demo for $27K delivered to WA ($14K-$15K changeover cost, half that of the local vRS changeover cost). It'll keep me going for a year or two and then I'll order my "ideal car" which is probably not a vRS, but a 1.8L turbo petrol DSG wagon with xenons and sunroof. The extra $ for diesel is marginal with the 1.8 being such a good engine when coupled with the new DSG, and as for the extra $ for the vRS 2009... well we'll just have to wait and see the price to see if it is worth it. With a local WA dealer at least there will be somewhere to trade in Skodas ;-)

I'll probably do a "cheap chip" for my new car to boost it up a bit in power and economy as discussed on the TDI forums
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=12165&page=23

[indulis]

It looks likely that DVG in Melville is about to open their Skoda franchise (between Ford and Toyota?).

Had to drop my father off to repair his car, and spotted some Skodas in "lockup" on an empty lot in the backstreets.

Some Octavias, and also some very nice Superbs. The Superbs really look impressive, apart from the back, with the letters S...U...P...E...R...B spread out over the boot. Really tacky, looks more like a Hyundai back end with that cheap lettering.

My car is about 1 week away, on a train now. Can't wait! Well, I expect I'll have to!!!

[davidh]

It looks likely that DVG in Melville is about to open their Skoda franchise (between Ford and Toyota?).

Had to drop my father off to repair his car, and spotted some Skodas in "lockup" on an empty lot in the backstreets.


I had a test drive of a Superb today, and was very happy. I placed an order. Apparently it was the first Superb that DVG have sold, but they have only had them for a couple of days.

For those who tried to deal with the old AHG dealership, the DVG guys are more pleasant and have a vision of where Skoda is heading.

The DVG dealership is operating out of the Peugot show room for a few weeks, while they prepare to move the neighbouring Hyundai dealership. Then Skoda will be located next door to Peugot.

[mrx]

Well, now it's official. My wife received a letter from Skoda yesterday informing her that the new dealership was now open and would be more than happy to meet her warranty, servicing & sales requirements.

The SUPERB badging can easily be fixed with a piece of fishing line, much like I did to the novelty oversized OCTAVIA badging on ours, the day after picking it up.

[indulis]

Yes I'd heard of the fishing line trick, but it was just a bit sad to see an otherwise lovely looking car spoiled with tacky badging. Personally I hate pretty much all badging, and like the teutonic approach to have cars without badges. A collection of different fonts in different sizes spoils the back of a car just like it does with documents.

I always imagine the car body designer crying when he/she sees what has been done to their nice clean lines.

[selurs]

I was there on Wednesday night, testing the Octavia RS (I knew it wasn't the facelifted version...they didn't - I'll forgive them given they only went "live" a week ago).

Only one Skoda salesman at this point. Joe somethingorother. Nice enough guy, but knows next to nothing about the models at the moment - I knew more about working the stereo and DSG from watching youtube videos than he did. Guess he's been a Peugeot salesman for too long. :biggrin:

Anyway, as davidh pointed out, they're operating out of a Peugeot dealership for now, and judging by the state of where the Hyundai dealership is supposed to end up (I drive by it every week...the old Melville Toyota dealership right on the corner of Leach Hwy and Nth Lake Rd), I don't think they'll be moving all that soon. It might be a while before they're in full swing, however, they're prompt at answering phone calls, and have a full range of cars available for test drive if you call ahead and arrange a time. Just don't expect them to know too much about what they're selling at the moment :duh:

[VWCC]

If anyone is interested in a Skoda wagon, there are a couple of them out in Kewdale.

Good luck.

[MJKooLio]

Barbagallo now sell Skoda's. They have them in stock at Fiat/Alfa.

At the Perth Motor Show from Friday (tomorrow) they will have a Blue vRS, other Skoda's as well as a Yeti on display! :D

No Fabia's until next month they say.