is green coolant bad? why?

[hienous]

Hi all,
Don't know why but I seem to be very paranoid these days- I get the feeling people I deal with to fix things for me are not honest/competent enough for my liking. Sorry for the long post- esp for my first post but I have to get this off my chest. any comments would be appreciated. Moderators if you feel the need- move this to the appropriate section if it is in the incorrect place.

I recently bought a second-hand 2005 golf comfortline 2.0FSI with leather in Feb from a lady who apparently didnt drive it very much and so only had 30k on the clock. I got it for 20k with a suprisingly easy haggle down from 22k. I had a feeling in the back of my mind that she is relieved to have offloaded it to me- she is probably laughing at me now.

I expected that I'd have to spend a bit of money on it to bring it up to speed so- new front tyres, new battery (after a scare where it almost left me stranded), and also to do the service that was overdue (service indicator flashing).

So, went down to Mc Grath's Liverpool got the new oil filter, rear brake pads (not discs), some brake fluid, and some g12++ (I was using up coolant so much that every few days I needed to top up). Booked my local mechanic. I knew I had a coolant leak somewhere -but couldn't see it, I thought since it's going in for service anyway I'll get the mechanic to check it out. BTW I got shell ultra extra oil at repco (504.00 spec)- and provided it to the mechanic.

so, today I got the car back finally- and I'm not very pleased. $920 bill incl GST.

break down:

oil/ oil filter: nil (supplied)
oil change labour incl flush: $89
rear brake replacement labour: $160
rear rotors: $158- apparrently needed new rotors (?)
pads: nil (supplied)
housing for thermostat (leaking): $164
labour: $240
coolant: $34
gst: $$

My niggles:

1. he didn't reset the service indicator and reckons I have to see an autoelectrician or the dealer with the computer to do it- I finally looked up the manual and did it myself in less than 3 steps using the instructions- makes me wonder if they just bull****ted me.
2. being charged so much for labour - does it take that much time to do all those things? is this reasonable?
3. I now notice that my coolant is GREEN in colour. This really made my blood boil, why couldn't they look up a book and get the recommended coolant for the car? my ultimate question is should I go back and demand a flush and replacement for the correct coolant- or should I just suck it in and get some g12+ and do it myself?

I know that owning a VW is not going to be cheap- and from what I have read I'm not looking forward to other things breaking down/failing during the time that I will own this car. So far- I know the air-con compressor has been replaced- under warranty a year into the ownership by the last owner. Still the aircon suck ass compared to my 9-year old maxima. This car is now out of warranty so every thing will have to be from my pocket if things go wrong. sigh..somebody cheer me up...

[hienous]

also if anyone in western sydney knows of a good vw specialist who won't rape my wallet I'd appreciate it because I don't think I'll be going back to that guy again. (I should've known better...)

[brad]

There are several decent independants in the west - look in the recommended repairers thread. Camden GTI & Sebastian at Girraween (?) spring to mind.

Labour is probably about right considering he was probably learning as he did the job:duh: What can you do after the event?

Coolant? AFAIK, the only proper coolant is VW genuine. look up the castrol/nulon/mobil/valvoline websites & your answer will be there.

[hienous]

If I do decide to do the coolant change myself (the mechanic would problably fob me off and refuse to change it- or prob charge me to do it)- are there any things I should be wary of, like little tricky things. I'm reasonably competent with doing simple things like oil changes and coolant changes- I'v done it im my other cars previously. I just don't know if there is any special procedures I should be wary of like filling/flushing procedure to eliminate airlocks etc... Or if someone can link me to a diy page that shows you how to do it that would be even better.

[NickZ]

As mentioned before, not sure whether your mechanic specialises, but there are quite a few people on here who are VW/Audi specialists, know your car back to front and are fair in price. Look up Golf Loon (Matt, based in Camden) or Bug Racer (Seb, based in Girraween).

[RedMk2Gti]

According to what you described, that guy definitely doesn't know VW cars, and he put green coolant in even though you supplied the G12++ :duh:
Depend on your location there are several VW specialist in this forum that you can talk to.

[The_Hawk]

AFAIK if you replace red with green without flushing properly you end up with a brown gunk that isn't a good thing. (ie don't top up red with green).

Again, I'm led to believe that you can swap to green if you flush it properly without issue, although I can't confirm this. Either way the genuine red stuff is the recommended option, while it's more expensive it's not like you change it often now is it.

[Jmac]

Ok "Redstuff" is G12 plus which can be mixed with the Green stuff G11 ok. It does go a brown shade though. Now you can also buy Nulon Red but you CANNOT mix this, its cancerous if you do, however with a complete flush you can in fact use Nulon Red. Although a good flush before u switch to G12 plus is a good idea so Hawk is right. This will be a good time to pressure test everything including the cap, rad and pipes.
Cheers
Jmac

[hienous]

well my mechanic obviously is not a vw specialist. All I needed doing was simple oil change service, rear brakes, and check where the car was leaking coolant- and fix that up. It's not like he was rebuilding the gearbox or touching the engine. I didn't think I needed to worry too much and besides he's very close to me so I don't have to take public transport after i drop my car off, I can just walk home. I actually didn't give him the g12 plus, nor did I clearly specify that I wanted the genuine coolant, I should've.
I went back in to question him (politely) why he didn't use the genuine stuff since he had to order the parts from the dealer anyway (the housing)- his reply was the cost (he assumed it was more expensive than what he already had in stock)- and that in his opinion with a full flush it was ok to put the green stuff in because it was "compatible with all cars". Now his argument goes along the lines: "if this coolant is good for all these other cars- and cooling systems of most cars are very similar- then there is no reason to not use it in my VW".

This is a valid point and hence my question: is the green stuff actually bad? Does anyone have any experience of the green stuff doing nasty things to their VW? Does anyone know of any literature that clearly states that the green stuff should not be put into the VW? As I trawl through the forums, I get anecdotal comments that the green stuff is bad but as yet I have not come across an explanation as to why it is bad. Hence my original post.

Now my argument to my mechanic was that VW cooling system was actually different to most other makes of cars- and he kinda agreed with me. He even told me that they design their hoses to attach with o-rings and clips etc.. instead of gaskets and stronger fittings like most other cars and so he gave this as the explanation why cooling leaks are common and that I may get leaks again in the near future (warning me that I may have to pull my wallet out again for him to rape). So I said that because of this fundamental difference I was concerned that using anything other than genuine coolant designed for the car may be a compromise to the cooling system. He even agreed that if the car was still under warranty (which it is not) that he would insist on using only genuine parts incl coolant. So, he said that if I provided the coolant that he would flush it and replace it for me no charge. So going back there tomorrow. I really hope he flushes it properly. This time I have to get 3x1.5 L G12++ and some distilled water for him to use (if he uses tap water instead I will slap him one).

[Jmac]

What the problem with mixing the coolant with water?????? Clearly it tells you to use water, yes plain ole water, have done for that last 17yrs. Now if you were topping up your battery with just water then i would have something to say, it really does have to be demineralised, obviously as there is metals in the water. So i wouldnt bag your man if that is what he uses.
Jmac

[Golf Loon]

Where are you based mate?

We are at Campbelltown and give honest advice and pride ourselves on old fashioned service.

Plus we carry OEM parts in stock for your car.

Including 4L bottles of G12+. Bit cheaper than 3 1.5L bottles mate ;)

[brad]

What the problem with mixing the coolant with water?????? Clearly it tells you to use water, yes plain ole water, have done for that last 17yrs. Now if you were topping up your battery with just water then i would have something to say, it really does have to be demineralised, obviously as there is metals in the water. So i wouldnt bag your man if that is what he uses.
Jmac
I think it depends what part of Australia you are in. Some of the water has a very high mineral content which can cause a build-up (calcium?). Possibly can also have an effect if there is a stray current problem.

I always used demineralised water in the Subaru

[brad]

Where are you based mate?

We are at Campbelltown and give honest advice and pride ourselves on old fashioned service.

Plus we carry OEM parts in stock for your car.

Including 4L bottles of G12+. Bit cheaper than 3 1.5L bottles mate ;)

I got the impression he doesn't want to drive all the way from Liverpool(?) to Camden. Sheesh, I go from Hurstville to Campbelltown 5 days a week.

[hienous]

Where are you based mate?

We are at Campbelltown and give honest advice and pride ourselves on old fashioned service.

Plus we carry OEM parts in stock for your car.

Including 4L bottles of G12+. Bit cheaper than 3 1.5L bottles mate ;)

Thanks, I'll keep you in mind next time. I'm at East Hills, nearish to Liverpool. It would just have to require more planning to take my car into service now- with me and my missus working, and 2 kids sometimes its not easy.

With regards to the demineralised water, sounds like overkill I know, but at $5 for 4L, I'm not exactly robbing a bank to finance that part of my car's service. The important thing from my point of view now is that the mechanic did a proper flush and that I haven't got left-over green stuff to react to my precious pink/purple stuff.

I picked up the car today and now it has purple stuff in it. A little overfilled, but he says that it'll settle down once air is pushed out of the cooling system. Strange that he only needed 2x 1.5L bottles... This sounds like I may have to do another flush sometime down the line- probably DIY this time :duh:

Still, I'm questioning myself whether all this angst of green vs red was all worth the trouble or I'm just being pedantic.

[brad]

Still, I'm questioning myself whether all this angst of green vs red was all worth the trouble or I'm just being pedantic.

Any adverse effects of the green stuff wouldn't show up for a while - then try & get your mechanic to wear the costs. You did the right thing.

[dainese]

Ok.

Here it is:

This guys seems to be charging dealership labour rates.

no one flushes out engine oil. it is drained and replaced.

Euro cars tend to have soft discs and harder pads. not sure why. but discs wear quicker than pads almost always.

i think labour for rear disc replacement is too much.

the housing for thermostat, if genuine is ok price i think. but not sure on the design. gaskets tend to fail. not the whole housing.
Maybe you can't replace JUST the gasket, or he didn't bother to try because;

it was really hard to get to.

I am not sure where it is located. but 3 hours labour is a lot of money.

and last but not least, the coolant change is a BIG NO NO.

mixing coolant is BAD. over long term, it can corrode, leak, cause dramas.
Maybe VW is more resistant to this, but TOYOTA (MR REliable) suffers in the long term when coolant is mixed.

Get it flushed ASAP.

Any other questions let me know

[Yevvy]

AFAIK if you replace red with green without flushing properly you end up with a brown gunk that isn't a good thing. (ie don't top up red with green).

Again, I'm led to believe that you can swap to green if you flush it properly without issue, although I can't confirm this. Either way the genuine red stuff is the recommended option, while it's more expensive it's not like you change it often now is it.

Whoops :duh:

[silvershadow]

The article on the following link contains some useful information about OAT, HOAT and IAT coolants, their use in pre-2005 vehicles and an example of the problems that may arise from using the wrong coolant.

http://rrtechnical.info/miscellaneous/coolantoatwarning.pdf

The following link to a Valvoline product suitability guide for the major vehicle manufacturers might also be useful:

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/Zerex_CoolantChart.pdf