Best Diesel: Shell? Caltex? BP? Mobil?

[stewarthou]

I just did some researches on different diesels (normal diesel, no bio, no premium), the result is shown below(No Mobil Diesel Data)

PROPERTIES -[Shell]- -[Caltex]- -[BP]-
Sulfur -[8]- -[<=10]- -[<=10]-
Flash Point -[79]- -[>=61]- -[No Data]-
Density -[0.82 – 0.85]- -[0.82-0.86]- -[0.82-0.85]-
Cetane -[49]- -[>=46]- -[51, >=46]-
Lubricity -[400]- -[<=460]- [<=460]-

Which one is best for performance and economy?:nana:

[Transporter]

I use BP and Shell as second choice. The long term fuel economy in my T5 is - 9.5L/100km (very short trips and fully loaded). Done 65k now.

[stewarthou]

New research result:
higher sulfur = more smoke(bad for environment) = higher Lubricity(good for engine)
higher cetane = more power
Thus it seems BP is the best.

[STV4SYT]

Any idea what Mobil is, thats what i generally use as its closest to home.

[Transporter]

Any idea what Mobil is, thats what i generally use as its closest to home.

Last time I asked Mobil (1 year gao) it was CN 46.

[mikinoz]

I use BP, get worse economy out of Caltex.

[vanDub]

Shell is best for economy for me as I get $0.08 per litre off at Coles express so works out best in terms of cents per km. $0.04 shopadocket plus $0.04 voucher that comes with statement when I pay with Coles mastercard.

2 Coles outlets in Townsville go very close to matching the best el cheapo independant price while the other 2 are $0.10 dearer so they miss out on my business.

With Cetain so close to BP I cannot tell the difference so performance is not an issue for me.

[Mischa]

the bp around the corner from me sells bp ultimate diesel and its all i ever use. they're not more expensive than other bp's who sell the regular diesel.

[Diesel_vert]

Which BP servo in Sydney has Ultimate diesel?

[Mischa]

Which BP servo in Sydney has Ultimate diesel?

where in sydney are you? the small one in castle cove on the corner of eastern valley way and castle cove rd has it. i dont know of any others.

[GoLfMan]

i just use either caltex or BP dont really notice a difference really

[Diesel_vert]

I live near Parra, so quite a drive then - but I just checked BP's servo locator and for some reason, Ultimate diesel supposedly isn't available at Castle Cove. Why would they keep it hidden? :confused:

[Mischa]

I live near Parra, so quite a drive then - but I just checked BP's servo locator and for some reason, Ultimate diesel supposedly isn't available at Castle Cove. Why would they keep it hidden? :confused:

maybe they're BS'ing everyone then (castle cove that is). but they have a banner out the front and i've quadruple checked with all the people that work there that it is infact ultimate diesel. i dunno :?

[GoLfMan]

who cares what diesel you use fellas.....

or things can run on chip fat, a coupla cetane aint gunna make or break the bloody thing!

as long as the stuff is within fuel standards I dont really care..... its a diesel!

[mikinoz]

How come every time I read cetene on the internet I think of carrots and carotene.

[Russ59]

I've been running the GT TDI on Mobil diesel since day one. This afternoon I decided to try Shell diesel and I'm sure I'm not imagining it, the car actually appears to be running a lot smoother and is picking up much quicker than it has been. I just ordered some of that Amsoil Cetane boost to try in the next tankfull of jungle juice as well and I'll come back with the results. :)

Russ

[BeigeJet]

Hi All,

I have been running exclusively on Caltex only because my novated lease company provides Caltex and motorpass cards. I use the motorpass 'cause I can also use a shopper docket at Woolworths Caltex making is a lot cheaper(4cents per litre instead of 2.5cents using the Starcard).

Since new the jetta (now 66,500km) has averaged 6.03 L/100km and performance has been great. The last big interstate trip over 4,300km ave was 5.2 with a full load and three adults. I have recorded fuel use since new using odometer reading and actual litres filled.

I'm as happy as pig in it!

Cheers

[jettapilot]

I'm a sucker for the Shell/Coles discount.

My dockets are all from LiquorLand :drinkbeer:

The weekly wine ration and two weeks of fuel!

[WEDEL.1]

I've used Liberty, $1.115 when Shell were $1.189. I looked at the Liberty website and they say they buy their fuels from the other companies as they don't own their own refineries etc.

During the Bug-In trip I filled with BP at Tailem Bend, then Shell at Bendigo, notice no difference, with no change of fuel economy. Liberty still cheaper than Shell or Woolies/Caltex, most of the time even when using dockets.

Maris

[gldgti]

i don't know why any of us oilers would bother using "shopper dockets" anyway...

1) you use so little fuel, gosh, you must save atleast $2-3 bucks a week, if you drive a LOT.
2) you willingly support 2 supermarket chains that ruin fair trading in australia, screwing farmers out of any profits every day, who produce fruit, vegetables and dairy products.

given that we all drive diesel, i'd have thought that we'd all be more aware than the general populus, of some of the more important and less talked about issues that are bringing many australians to their knees trying to earn a crust.

sheesh, where'd that come from? please know my little rant isnt directed at any of you personally.... just getting frustrated... sorry :-)

[gavs]

The best diesel I ever used, which resulted in a 40km gain out of the tank of fuel, was from a BP servo which sold the proper BP Ultimate diesel.

The original BP Ultimate diesel was actually a blend, although I could never find out the exact ratios, or the exact ingredients. What I was able to find out though is that it was a blend of regular refinery grade diesel, animal fat-derived bio-diesel and a new thing called GTL diesel. It produced less smoke, better fuel economy and more power, unfortunately it was only on a trial basis here in Australia as we dodn't have the sheer volumes of diesel vehicles to justify the price of the GTL diesel.

GTL is short for Gas To Liquid technology. It is done in few places around the world, generally in the horribly poorer nations in Africa due to the expense involved in it. To put it in laymans terms, it means turning LNG, or Liquid Natural Gas into a very, very pure form of diesel, much better than that which is derived from crude oil. It has a higher cetane rating and combusts much cleaner without all the other nasties generally associated with crude derived diesel.

Unfortunately there are 3 limiting factors to it's introduction:
1) It doesn't have high lubricity properties
2) The plants to manufactue it are VERY expensive to set up
3) The only cost effective places to set up the operations, are generally in poor, civil-war ravaged countries with access to natural gas reserves.

To give you all an idea, Shell ran it in it's Le Mans racing program in the R10 TDi as a blend, i think at 20% ratio.

This stuff can also be produced from Bio-Gas, so diesels really are the most environmentally friendly ignition engines :biggrin::biggrin:

[Transporter]

Just put the SpeedTec Diesel from LiquiMoly in my tank. Should improve acceleration and visible smoke. I can see less smoke in the mirror, will comment on acceleration and fuel economy in 1 week time.

SpeedTec data in PDF.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=27697044ea6264b82fb2ca15d7ea42d9e04e75f6 e8ebb871

[wicko]

hi I just bought a new golf 6 tdi and wanted to know about this BP Ultimate diesel. Is it a higher price than normal diesel and is it worth getting it if I see it around ?

I think I will use BP for all my diesel since it seems to be the most popular one here. I see diesel is a good price at the moment hope it stays low...

:biggrin:

[gldgti]

The best diesel I ever used, which resulted in a 40km gain out of the tank of fuel, was from a BP servo which sold the proper BP Ultimate diesel.

The original BP Ultimate diesel was actually a blend, although I could never find out the exact ratios, or the exact ingredients. What I was able to find out though is that it was a blend of regular refinery grade diesel, animal fat-derived bio-diesel and a new thing called GTL diesel. It produced less smoke, better fuel economy and more power, unfortunately it was only on a trial basis here in Australia as we dodn't have the sheer volumes of diesel vehicles to justify the price of the GTL diesel.

GTL is short for Gas To Liquid technology. It is done in few places around the world, generally in the horribly poorer nations in Africa due to the expense involved in it. To put it in laymans terms, it means turning LNG, or Liquid Natural Gas into a very, very pure form of diesel, much better than that which is derived from crude oil. It has a higher cetane rating and combusts much cleaner without all the other nasties generally associated with crude derived diesel.

Unfortunately there are 3 limiting factors to it's introduction:
1) It doesn't have high lubricity properties
2) The plants to manufactue it are VERY expensive to set up
3) The only cost effective places to set up the operations, are generally in poor, civil-war ravaged countries with access to natural gas reserves.

To give you all an idea, Shell ran it in it's Le Mans racing program in the R10 TDi as a blend, i think at 20% ratio.

This stuff can also be produced from Bio-Gas, so diesels really are the most environmentally friendly ignition engines :biggrin::biggrin:

Interesting info....

one thing that is particularly interesting - the fact that the GTL diesel is made from LNG, but is expensive in capital costs and manufacture - here's a solution - run you're diesel engine on LNG - can and IS done, and produces very good results. you can run a diesel engine on up to 90% LNG, and get good improvements in power and longevity.

(plase everyone note that we are talking about LNG, liquefied natural gas, and NOT LPG - liquefied petroleum gas)

[gavs]

(plase everyone note that we are talking about LNG, liquefied natural gas, and NOT LPG - liquefied petroleum gas)
06-05-2009 01:03 PM

Yes, we don't want people trying to fill their tanks with bbq gas:biggrin::biggrin:

[The One-Armed Man]

Edit: Wrong thread, dammit.

[dazag]

This is the specs on the BP Ultimate diesel
BP Ultimate Diesel is a refined premium diesel fuel with higher cetane and lower sulphur than specified in the Australian Standard. It is formulated to burn better than ordinary diesel fuel and remove deposits from vital engine components such as injectors, enabling engines to run more smoothly and efficiently. BP Ultimate Diesel is formulated to help protect the engine against the harmful effects of corrosion and wear. BP Ultimate Diesel’s foaming characteristics have been modified to reduce the likelihood of spills and splash back. Compared with ordinary diesel, using BP Ultimate Diesel will provide;
• • •
Protection against rust and wear Reduced foaming, leading to quicker, cleaner and safer refuelling Minimal rough idiling
BP Ultimate Diesel is designed for use in normally aspirated and turbocharged high speed diesel engines.
PROPERTIES
BP Ultimate Diesel exceeds the requirements of AS 3570, the Australian Standard for Automotive Diesel Fuel, and the requirements of the National Fuel Quality Standards 2000 diesel determination of 2001. BP Ultimate Diesel is comparable to EURO 5 diesel fuel.

Cetane rating 50 min typically 55 to 60
Sulphur 10 mg/kg max

[Diesel_vert]

Release date: 02 December 2009

BP Australia advised its customers today that ongoing issues at its supply terminals have delayed the company’s ability to restock a number of its service stations in the Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane areas with BP Ultimate diesel.

Supplies of regular diesel are not affected.

BP is putting a number of measures in place to ease the supply situation. One immediate action is to replace BP Ultimate diesel with regular diesel at all affected sites.

Accompanying this change will be point of sale information to ensure customers are made aware that only regular diesel is being supplied.

BP regrets any inconvenience caused and will update customers as and when BP Ultimate diesel sales recommence.

Doesn't affect Sydney - only because it's not available here :(

[Diesel_vert]

Perhaps this might have something to do with it - BP Says Australian Oil Refinery Unaffected as Workers Strike (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=aDBkzZ7xcRJY)

[Cam]

For the last 10,000kms I've been using BP in every tank usually from the Albion Park BP.

I did find though that the car ran a bit better when I filled up at Picton BP of all places. Didn't froth as much and didn't smell as much either. I've never put a tank of Premium Diesel in, wouldn't hesitate if it was available close by though.

[Hoppo]

G'day all

Have a mate in Melbourne with a Citroen Dispatch Diesel van (12 months old) - he had to truck it to the dealer the other week because it had started to blow smoke like mad. :(

Dealer found problem to be the fuel - completely drained his tank - he only uses BP diesel (as have I in most of my fills). Interestingly I tried to fill up at 5 BP stations a few days later and none of them had diesel - well, the pumps all had the "sorry - not available" skirt on them. Also, observed a tank apparently being emptied at another BP which also had no diesel. So I gave up and filled up with Shell.

Does anyone know anything about this? (I didn't have time to ask at the servo's)

[Spoddy]

I have started using Caltex premium diesel (Vortex). Similarly to BP's premium but not available around these parts. A noticeable drop in the amount of smoke and also a far quieter engine, though still enough to know you drive a tractor :).

So my questions are- how many VW TDIs are using this new fuel (new in my location)? And how has it changed the performance/economy and noise?

I also have noticed that after 3 tanks ,and my son is back from Melbourne, that the economy is also lower by about 0.3l/100km.

The thing I am not sure about now is whether I should keep using Morey's diesel smoke killer which I have been using for about 7 tanks. Could the improvement be from an accumulation of Morey's or the new Caltex?

[dazag]

Yeah I'm about to start running the Caltex Vortex diesel and se how my Skoda RS TDI (125kw) runs with it, since we dont have the BP Ultimate diesel in NSW as yet. Will let you know how it goes.............

[6thgear]

i tend to go to caltex for petrol and diesel, partly because they are more abundant in my area and better priced...

have had no issues with them, engine smooth and all. never really sat down and compared with others on efficiency or anything though...

no complaints from anyone else i know, caltex seems to be ok...

[Arctra]

Hi guys.

Over the Christmas/New Years break I managed to cover some 3700km's in my Tiguan TDI and kept track of some of my consumption stats. When I filled with standard diesel I put a squirt of "Moreys Diesel Engine Smoke Killer".

Standard Diesel:

BP Std D in Grafton - 380km's @ 7.17l/100km's (Grafton -> Gold Coast)
Caltex Std D in Armidale - 130km's @ 9.58l/100km (Waterfalls around Armidale)
Caltex Std D in Dubbo - 683km's @ 8.12l/100km (Dubbo -> Parkes -> Sydney via Richmond and 1 week Sydney driving)


Premium Diesel:

Caltex Prem D in Five Dock - 728km's @ 7.42l/100km's (Sydney -> Grafton)
Caltex Prem D in Gold Coast - 255km's @ 9.33l/100km's (Spirited driving around GC & Brisbane mountains)
Caltex Prem D in Gold Coast- 773km's @ 7.23l/100km (Gold Coast -> Armidale via Casino hills)
Caltex Prem D in Armidale - 763km's @ 6.73l/100km (Armidale -> Dubbo)


Now obviously some standard got mixed with premium which skews the figures a bit, and the driving conditions weren't the same for all tanks of fuel, but here are the average consumptions:

Standard Diesel - 1193km's @ 7.97l/100km
Premium Diesel - 2520km's @ 7.35l/100km


So it seems on the premium diesel you can get about 1.1km extra per litre of fuel (0.63l/100km) than standard diesel with the Cetane booster (Moreys Diesel Engine Smoke Killer) when doing relatively open road driving. I would assume the difference is even bigger when you don't put the Cetane booster in standard diesel, but that's an experiment for another time. Comparing consumptions for city driving is another experiment I would like to do if I have the time and/or inclination.

I hope that helps answer some peoples questions as it sure has for me.

[yowie]

Were told by the dealer to only use BP diesel, so mostly BP Ultimate, tho I've not paid close attention, and to not put additives. That was May 09.
So far so good. Av 5.5 on trips, and 7.1 around town where there is usually some freeway. 17,000ks of that, no complaints except when you cant find a car nozzle and have to spend forever trickling in from the truck pump:frown:

[yowie]

Well, we got 778ks from the last tank mostly city this time, and couldnt find anything else at night with the dial reading 60 km to empty, (took 52 litres exact, so probably not quite right), I blinked and put it's first load of Shell in.
Sounds the same. Will see if there's any other difference.

[kahle81]

Forgive me if this sounds rude - I know car enthusiasts will always be car enthusiasts but thinking that one petrol or diesel product is better at one servo than the other is simply crazy. I am a chemical engineer and I have worked in refinery laboratories and trust me, just go to the servo where it happens to be cheap on that day and fill up. You can go home happy that you have some of the best quality normal automotive fuel in the world.

[Jmac]

To add to that you can have a great batch from your " favorite" servo and your pride and joy will be a cut snake and fill up again at the same bowser and be down on power. hit or miss if you ask me but still wouldnt fill up at a dungeon of a servo even though i would rather give the money to the privateer.
Surely we have some of the best sweet crude in the world but we export it, am i right or wrong???? would love to hear more, ive invested lots of my spare time gong to BP seminars held by the IAME but still feel lost with it all. Iwill still attend these seminars to learn more after all the internal combustion engine is like us crap in crap out.
Jmac

[neil]

Forgive me if this sounds rude - I know car enthusiasts will always be car enthusiasts but thinking that one petrol or diesel product is better at one servo than the other is simply crazy. I am a chemical engineer and I have worked in refinery laboratories and trust me, just go to the servo where it happens to be cheap on that day and fill up. You can go home happy that you have some of the best quality normal automotive fuel in the world.

I do recall one of our members near the blue mountains having issues with
black smoke, it even went as far as VWA, adviced the dealer to advice
the owner to use BP and the black smoke issue was resolved.

[yowie]

Forgive me if this sounds rude - I know car enthusiasts will always be car enthusiasts but thinking that one petrol or diesel product is better at one servo than the other is simply crazy. I am a chemical engineer and I have worked in refinery laboratories and trust me, just go to the servo where it happens to be cheap on that day and fill up. You can go home happy that you have some of the best quality normal automotive fuel in the world.

So why would the dealer urge us strongly and directly to use just BP?
And we have, until last week, when a late-night vat of Shell found its way in.
INterested in all this,kahle81, and what you bring, so not rude at all.

[kahle81]

I just think that you have to take into account an unimaginable amount of factors to be able to predict how the complex mixture of compounds in your fuel tank is going to act in your engine.

Firstly there is the crude composition which varies worldwide - the crudes in and around australia/south asia are of very good quality and that's why the oil prices run off the Singapor tapis crude prices and not the american (even though they still report the american in the news). But these crudes vary in their composition so what is being bought by the refineries is always changing.

There are so many factors in a refinery which affect the product. There are obviously standards and targets but most products that come out of the refinery are blends and can vary day to day. So your lubricity, sulphur, driveability, cetane, flashpoint, plugging point, volatility and chemical content are always changing.

I think the most important thing for fuel quality is the tank that it is stored in at the servo. Different servo's have different tank cleaning schedules (to remove moisture, gums and contaminants). I would buy my fuel from the newest servo with the newest tanks if I had access to that information.

That being said, there are always going to be bad batches of fuel, which is not always the refinery/servos fault. We would commonly test samples from tanks in which you could see flakes of rust and bits of rubber from the fuel tank. There are always incidents of water contamination in servo tanks as well.

Quite frankly the dealer would know SFA about fuel but VWA would. Perhaps they have test data or a relationship with BP or perhaps they run it in their company cars but I guess you can't go wrong recommending BP.

[Redman]

I do recall one of our members near the blue mountains having issues with
black smoke, it even went as far as VWA, adviced the dealer to advice
the owner to use BP and the black smoke issue was resolved.

Interesting. BP (as with Mobil) don't have a refinery in NSW and are supplied by either Shell or Caltex.
QLD - Shell & Mobil are supplied by Caltex or BP
VIC - Caltex & BP are supplied by Mobil or Shell
All import their own into Adelaide
WA - Mobil & Caltex supplied by BP or Shell
TAS - Most import their own, or supply by Caltex or Shell

I don't know if they then add additional additives to the product once they pick it up in each state, but I can't see in a state where one is supplied by another how any difference occurs.

[timo72]

When you think about the supermarkets have most aussies buying there fuel for the sake of usally no more than $2 a tank, which last most of us 1 or 2 weeks ( a saving of $104 dollars a yr) its ludicrious that we are ruining the compertition for other quality independant resellers of fuel . dont get me wrong I was the same untill I did the sums recently and I am saying quality resellers not two bit guys that put all sorts of **** in there fuel, not all coles and wollies outlets have quality fuel either . It seems funny people out there who have spent reasonably big to get one of the best TDI's out there and then there are worried about $104 extra a yr on diesel when buying from independants.

[silvershadow]

Interesting. BP (as with Mobil) don't have a refinery in NSW and are supplied by either Shell or Caltex.
QLD - Shell & Mobil are supplied by Caltex or BP
VIC - Caltex & BP are supplied by Mobil or Shell
All import their own into Adelaide
WA - Mobil & Caltex supplied by BP or Shell
TAS - Most import their own, or supply by Caltex or Shell

I don't know if they then add additional additives to the product once they pick it up in each state, but I can't see in a state where one is supplied by another how any difference occurs.


It is my understanding the other companies add their proprietary "11 herbs and spices" to the tankers before or after pick-up from the terminal of whatever refiner is supplying the fuel.

Perhaps someone in the industry can confirm if this is just another urban myth or what does occur.

[OilBurna]

urban myth with exception of BP Ultimate and Ultimate Diesel where additives are added at the terminal. NSW BP and Shell share Parramatta terminal all produce except Ultimate comes from Shell Refinery for both.

[The_Hawk]

From my other thread over here: http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f136/dpf-care-46705.html

I'm copying this information about diesel:

Details on EN 590 can be found here:
EN 590 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_590)

BP's website has this information:
Products and services - On the road - Fuels - Diesel - BP Diesel 10ppm (http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9014507&contentId=7027516)


constantly monitored by laboratory tests to ensure that each batch of BP Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (10ppm) meets Euro standards specification.

Of course it doesn't say what standard... should we assume it's EN 590? From what I read 10ppm is the mark needed, so it looks like we are all good. A quick poke around and Shells website says similar things (http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/aus/products_services/on_the_road/fuels/low_sulphur_diesel/). So it looks like all diesel in Australia has had to meet this requirement since 01/01/2009 (according to the BP website).

So am I right in saying all diesel is now low sulphur??

[Diesel_vert]

Yep, all diesel sold in Oz is legally bound to have less than 10 ppm of sulphur, as outlined here (http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/standards/diesel/index.html).

That said, it still doesn't prevent you from picking up a bad batch of diesel from contaminated or leaky storage tanks, poorly maintained fuel dispensers, etc, etc.

Rather than concentrating on what brand to fill up with, find a service station where the fuel has a high turn over or go to where all the trucks fill up.

Pro tip - always ask for a receipt.
If fuel bought from BP (http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/retail/retail_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads_pdfs/a/Aust_retail_ATS_New_fuel_guarantee.pdf) and Shell (http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/aus/products_services/on_the_road/fuels/fuels_quality/) is found to have caused equipment damage they will cover the cost of repairs as long as you have proof of purchase.

[Cousin]

Just filled up with Caltex Vortex diesel, first time and I'll see how it goes over a few tanks.

Puzzled me a bit, the price was the same as 'normal' diesel, at 129.9 a litre.

If that's the norm, why not fill up with premium diesel.

Do others find the price of premium and standard diesel the same, or it differs?


M

[Chook47]

Just filled up with Caltex Vortex diesel, first time and I'll see how it goes over a few tanks.

Puzzled me a bit, the price was the same as 'normal' diesel, at 129.9 a litre.

If that's the norm, why not fill up with premium diesel.

Do others find the price of premium and standard diesel the same, or it differs?


M

How has the Vortex gone? It has just arrived in Townsville. Price was 132.9 cents/L. I have only filled up twice with diesel since i got my new car, which has been at the BP in Cluden which is also one of the major truck stops in town. I filled up with regular diesel for 128.9 cents/L.

[Cousin]

How has the Vortex gone? It has just arrived in Townsville. Price was 132.9 cents/L. I have only filled up twice with diesel since i got my new car, which has been at the BP in Cluden which is also one of the major truck stops in town. I filled up with regular diesel for 128.9 cents/L.



Would be on about my sixth or seventh tank since that post last month, Chook.
It's certainly not the same difference you would expect from premium petrol.
Consumption has stayed the same at around 8.5 litres per hundred ks.
I didn't notice any difference in performance.
The one difference I have found is soot out the exhaust.
On standard diesel I'd leave a big black cloud out back on a heavy kick back, on Vortex diesel, not much at all.
If the price was 12 or 13 cents a litre more, like 98 octane, I'd have to weigh it all up.
But generally I find the price is the same. So I'm happy.
Some Caltex servos only stock Vortex diesel, giving the standard one the flick. That's gotta be a good thing.
Would be good if BP bought theirs into Vic, but that seems in the too hard basket.

M