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Tigga1
22-02-2009, 12:03 PM
I would like a towbar for my Tig, but am not prepared to pay $1400 or so coz I will really only be using it for towing a trailer on the property and some rear protection while on the road.

From what others have told me, it looks like a standard Hayman Reese bar, and so I am wondering if you can just get the bar without the expensive wiring loom.

anyone?

mulga1
22-02-2009, 02:03 PM
Hello Tigga1
The wiring hooks up with the car's ESP so the genuine would be very desirable on the road but around the property it wouldn't be a problem I don't think.
Regards
mulga1

NZTiguan
23-02-2009, 06:24 AM
I would like a towbar for my Tig, but am not prepared to pay $1400 or so coz I will really only be using it for towing a trailer on the property and some rear protection while on the road.

From what others have told me, it looks like a standard Hayman Reese bar, and so I am wondering if you can just get the bar without the expensive wiring loom.

anyone?

You certainly can in NZ BUT whatever you do don't try and wire it up through tap-ons to the taillight wiring cos it will throw all sorts of faults and warnings. The ONLY effective way of wiring up is via the correct loom which as mulga says also activates the esp's trailer settings, anti-theft alarm etc. Personally I think that correct unit, correctly wired is the sensible option in the long run even though it appears to be expensive.

Cheers

Umai Naa!!
08-03-2009, 08:42 PM
If you've got a Tiguan that is pre-wired from the factory, it should work out cheaper (Providing the dealer can get it to work. I keep hearing that dealers are having issues with the pre-wired cars).

The reason it's so expensive, is that the wiring needs to be run from the LHR to the LHF, and then to the RHF, as well as into the engine bay. It's quite a mammoth job, but once it's up and running, it's well worth the hassel.

DieselTig
17-11-2009, 11:52 AM
Has anyone in Melbourne have a non VW genuine towbar fitted yet. Does Hayman Reese have one for the Tig yet?
I rang a couple of towbar fitters in Melbourne and didnt even recognise the model of car.

tiggy888
17-11-2009, 10:50 PM
Has anyone in Melbourne have a non VW genuine towbar fitted yet. Does Hayman Reese have one for the Tig yet?
I rang a couple of towbar fitters in Melbourne and didnt even recognise the model of car.
I sole to Hayman Reese today and they tell me that the bar is now complete but are still working on the wiring loom. Hopefully only couple of weeks away

cheers

Tiggy888

DieselTig
18-11-2009, 08:24 AM
I sole to Hayman Reese today and they tell me that the bar is now complete but are still working on the wiring loom. Hopefully only couple of weeks away

cheers

Tiggy888
Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully we only have to pay at least half of what the VW charge.

Maverick
18-11-2009, 10:27 AM
Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully we only have to pay at least half of what the VW charge.

I assume though you won't get any of the benefits of the VW setup which is ESP modifications, reverse sensor disablement, alarm integration and so forth?

The ESP one would be the big one IMO as a trailer would confuse the system to the point where it would be dangerous if you swerved. It would be interesting to see if there are any insurance issues that arise from fitting an aftermarket unit that reduces the safety of the car as the insurance companies work out their pricing on the basis that ESP is fitted and this reduces crashes by x%.

ploz58
18-11-2009, 10:48 AM
hi,
i too baulked at the price of the oem bar, i then did some research,
there were bars available in the USA for $175USD, but then you didnt get the "black box" compatitabibilty. The "black box" in the US was valued at $350USD, at the time the USD was still its normal value.

I then ordered the VW unit and had it dealer fitted, although dealer told me that it was a huge job, but this forum mentioned the cars being prewired, so i
got the bar fitted for $1250. which i was originally quoted.

The VW bar is made in New Zealand according to the decals on the bar

I recently towed a large commercial trailer of nearly 1800kgs, up through the blue mountains and was amazed at the ease the Tig pulled this thing.
Previously it was towed with a Falcon 6, and it had to work hard.

My passenger who owns a jeep 4.7lt, as we were passing trucks etc up a steep sections, said, "what size motor is in this thing?'
I commented a 2 litre TDI, he was amazed and is now seriously looking at replacing his jeep!!

a bit of the subject but i had to bow to using the OEM product and im happy

regards
Phil

NZTiguan
18-11-2009, 11:10 AM
I absolutely agree with ploz58. To me, when you've paid relatively big money for a Tiguan in the first place it's counterintuitive to then put a cheap towing system on it, particularly if it doesn't then work in with all the great safety features that the Tiguan has "on board" for towing. I've already read of a GB tiguan where the owner believes his towing "electronics" saved him from disaster when the trailer started to tail wag in the slip-steam off a truck on the motorway. He felt that the esp system simply straightened the problem out in the length of time he took to recognise the "problem" and start to consider his options.

So, personally I've got no problem with lower cost options on the bar itself but feel that "proper" wiring package is well worth its money. I was surprised at the cost too (NZ$1900 at the time I got my Tig over a year ago) BUT I'm pleased I paid it and have the peace of mind it provides.

Cheers

DieselTig
18-11-2009, 05:00 PM
I assume though you won't get any of the benefits of the VW setup which is ESP modifications, reverse sensor disablement, alarm integration and so forth?

The ESP one would be the big one IMO as a trailer would confuse the system to the point where it would be dangerous if you swerved. It would be interesting to see if there are any insurance issues that arise from fitting an aftermarket unit that reduces the safety of the car as the insurance companies work out their pricing on the basis that ESP is fitted and this reduces crashes by x%.
Derek, never thought about ESP, it is a very valid point.
I remember the dealer telling me the reasons why it is expensive and he was talking about electronics of the car.
Well it is worth looking at the genuine then.

Transporter
18-11-2009, 05:39 PM
Now, all needs to be done is someone find that box that connect tow bar with the car, open it and see if there is any electronics inside other than relays and diodes. Because I've got 2 wiring kits from the time I had Vito vans and I opened one and all I can see inside is relays and diodes only.
Tow bar wiring box. (http://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo/lzGLFtUvATS9FOxbfiLriw?feat=directlink)
If the inside electronics were only a few diodes and relays, than it wouldn't have to be that expensive to DIY as it was mentioned on Autospeed website.

Just my 2c.

DieselTig
18-11-2009, 06:55 PM
Now, all needs to be done is someone find that box that connect tow bar with the car, open it and see if there is any electronics inside other than relays and diodes. Because I've got 2 wiring kits from the time I had Vito vans and I opened one and all I can see inside is relays and diodes only.
Tow bar wiring box. (http://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo/lzGLFtUvATS9FOxbfiLriw?feat=directlink)
If the inside electronics were only a few diodes and relays, than it wouldn't have to be that expensive to DIY as it was mentioned on Autospeed website.

Just my 2c.
Well, the diodes are there to avoid reverse polarity and current going the wrong way and the relays are there simply to switch the lights on the trailer without blowing anything with high switching currents. I an not sure if this has anything to do with ESP?

Arctra
19-11-2009, 08:22 AM
Hi guys.

I have been in the dark when it comes to understanding what this special "wiring loom" that you need to integrate with the Tig's ESP, and just what it does when towing a trailer. So I consulted my friend Google and found this very informative explanation of what TSP (Trailer Stability Program) is, what it does, and what the difference between it and a standard "read only" relay box :google:

http://www.towbarexpress.co.uk/esp.html

Choice quotes:

TSP’s are really an extended software application for the existing ESP system. <snip> This feature has be borne out of the truck industry where manufacturers had been trying to combat the ‘Jack knifing’ effect of trailers. With additional yaw sensors and software applications, they were able to create a trailer stability program using the existing ESP.

Example of caravan jack-knifing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4MQEYe4_0Y


To enable the system to function or activate, the car MUST know when it is towing. This information is through the towing socket. Therefore, the use of by-pass electrical installations will NOT under any circumstances, allow this system to operate. The use of *vehicle specific CANbus wiring kits will allow this feature to be active provided the towing module is a module which the car can communicate with and recognises. There are a number of CANbus towing modules which are termed ‘read’ only and in this case, they are not visible to the car.

How do these work?
When the vehicle is determined to be towing, then the yaw sensors that would normally operate with the ESP system, allow for an additional movement which is detected when ‘fishtailing’ occurs. <snip> In the case of the VW systems, when the T-Esp system activates, it is applied for maximum 30 seconds or until the vehicle/caravan combination is back under control. If it still remains out of control, then the system re-energises for another 30 seconds.

Video of Land Rovers Trailer Stability Assist (which is different to VW's as Land Rover's does not seem to need to know when a trailer is attached or not): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gyc4Dmgbew

Video of Volvo XC60 Trailer stability assist (demonstrates how it works): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIMxVzUnBSA

So that's answered a few questions for me. In my case, I actually don't want the tow hitch for towing a trailer, I want it for a dirt bike carrier (http://www.ezimotow.com.au/gallery.htm), so by the sounds of things I don't need the VW wiring loom... a "dumb" relay just so the lights work would be fine. However, if the cost difference between a Hayman Reece with dumb relay box and a VW OEM hitch isn't that much, I would opt for the OEM. If you are towing a trailer, it seems pretty clear to me that getting the VW wiring loom is the only smart thing to do.

I hope this helps you guys as much as it helped me.

Sharkie
19-11-2009, 09:03 AM
I guess it comes down to what you want to use the towbar for.....

If you regularly tow a big boat or a caravan, I'd probably go for the factory fitted (or dealer fitted) system that fully integrates with the ESP for peace of mind.

If you are going to be towing a small trailer or use it for a bike rack or added rear protection I see no benefit in going for the factory fitted kit.

I regularly tow all kinds of stuff behind a RAV4 and a DualCab ute (both without ESP) and have never needed anything other than a bit of common sense and some road sense. (These are both obviously lacking in those that will vocalise disdain for anything not factory/dealer fitted :rolleyes:)

Arctra
19-11-2009, 09:27 AM
I guess it comes down to what you want to use the towbar for.....
Exactly, horses for courses.


I regularly tow all kinds of stuff behind a RAV4 and a DualCab ute (both without ESP) and have never needed anything other than a bit of common sense and some road sense. (These are both obviously lacking in those that will vocalise disdain for anything not factory/dealer fitted :rolleyes:)

:rofl2:
Careful there mate, you're opening yourself up for the "well I used to drive a car without ESP and never had an accident, but that doesn't mean the ESP isn't safer" argument :rolleyes:. Same thing with this I guess... if you are an experienced trailer user you probably don't need the Trailer Assist, but you would benefit from it. And for those who are not experienced at towing a trailer, Trailer Assist is probably a must.

I guess my post was more just to let people know what it was all about and the pro's and con's of going for the OEM wiring loom vs a dumb one.

NZTiguan
19-11-2009, 09:49 AM
The other point to recognise is that people aren't going to own the car for its "lifetime" and what's OK for you might not be OK for the next owner/s. I'd like to think that people who are effectively bypassing some of the safety features of the vehicle at least leave some note of this in the vehicle so the next owner/s can put the "correct" system in should they so desire.

As I've said before I find it counterintuitive that when you own an expensive, superbly designed vehicle, such as the Tig, you'd scrimp over an issue like this, but maybe spend thousands upgrading the sound system ??

Maverick
19-11-2009, 10:05 AM
I regularly tow all kinds of stuff behind a RAV4 and a DualCab ute (both without ESP) and have never needed anything other than a bit of common sense and some road sense. (These are both obviously lacking in those that will vocalise disdain for anything not factory/dealer fitted :rolleyes:)


Careful there mate, you're opening yourself up for the "well I used to drive a car without ESP and never had an accident, but that doesn't mean the ESP isn't safer" argument :rolleyes:. Same thing with this I guess... if you are an experienced trailer user you probably don't need the Trailer Assist, but you would benefit from it. And for those who are not experienced at towing a trailer, Trailer Assist is probably a must.

You're both missing the point, the car has ESP standard and it's irrelevant that you know what to do if the trailer or car gets out of control.

If something occurs and it calls for the ESP to kick in (and it doesn't take a lot for it to do so) the trailer/trail bike/whatever is being towed will confuse the ESP system and it will react in a different way potentially putting you in a worse position than if you didn't have ESP.

Unlike you the ESP doesn't have eyes and relies on a few sensors to know what is occurring and how to react.

Sharkie I'm all for the Volkswagen module as it integrates into the car correctly and whilst it may not be intended that the towbar would be used to tow anything at some point in the future it probably will maybe not by you but by a future owner. Personally I wouldn't want to sell a car knowing this it has a key safety system made unsafe under some circumstances especially when towing is probably when ESP is most likely to be called into action. :banana:

Arctra
19-11-2009, 10:33 AM
You're both missing the point, the car has ESP standard and it's irrelevant that you know what to do if the trailer or car gets out of control.

If something occurs and it calls for the ESP to kick in (and it doesn't take a lot for it to do so) the trailer/trail bike/whatever is being towed will confuse the ESP system and it will react in a different way potentially putting you in a worse position than if you didn't have ESP.

Unlike you the ESP doesn't have eyes and relies on a few sensors to know what is occurring and how to react.

Hey Mav, I'm glad you've chimed in here as I know you're pretty knowledgeable about this sort of stuff. A couple of responses to what you're said above which I wouldn't mind your responses to (I'm not being argumentative, I'm trying to find stuff out):

1) To say it's irrelevant whether you know how to react to a trailer losing control when you have ESP doesn't sit well with me. ESP is a driver aid, and I would be more willing to give VW the benefit of the doubt that they would not put something on the car that makes it MORE dangerous than a car without it operated by a savvy driver.

The ESP would react quicker that you for sure, but would it really override your input to the point of being less stable? From what I understand, trailer assist will allow for more yaw when towing, so that would imply it would simply kick in earlier if you are towing without the proper wiring loom. Implications? Well, a lof of ABS noise, quicker wearing brakes, and an unpleasant driving experience if your trailer is heavy and swaying a lot, but I can't see what more would be caused.

I hear you on the somewhat "scare mongering" call of "potentially putting you in a worse position than if you didn't have ESP", but I counter it with the argument that you could get fatally injured crossing the road jay-walking. Yes, it could happen, but if your reasonably smart about things it's unlikely.

2) In my example of a bike carrier (as opposed to a proper trailer), the forces exerted on the rear of the vehicle are going to be different to those of a proper trailer. How would the extra weight of a 130km bike (plus whatever extra force is exerted on the rear of the car through the lever-effect of having the bike sticking out the back) be any different to having a heavy load (for arguments sake 200kg's) in the boot? Surely the Tiguans ESP is designed to handle a range of loads in the rear (with a typically German large-ish margin for safety)? I would actually be a little concerned that the Tiguan's ESP with the proper Trailer Assist loom would assume there is a trailer on when it's just the carrier, increase it's tolerances, and in so doing allow the rear to step out further than it ordinarily would be allowed to before ESP/Trailer Assist kicks in to save he day. Do you have any idea which is the greater threat to safety?

NZTiguan
19-11-2009, 10:55 AM
Actra makes an interesting point when the coupling "isn't" being used for a trailer but one thing I can assure you of is that standard ESP does NOT work well with a trailer on. I know of a Kia owner who ended up jackknifed BECAUSE of the ESP (ie: dumb standard esp which didn't factor the trailer in). He was later advised by Kia to run with his ESP "OFF" when towing !!!. I personally doubt that the ESP would be slower to react with the trailer stabilisation switched "on" than normal but I'm no expert. I also suspect you'd be less likely to be sliding around on the road "needing" the ESP when you've got bikes hanging on your bumper !!

Cheers

jimbomort
19-11-2009, 11:15 AM
Fellas, differing opinions on the effects aside, isn't the simple solution for those who are confident/accustomed to towing a trailer/van, to simply turn the ESP off, or am I missing something here?

I am not convinced that the ESP being on will be a problem, but I dont have any experience to speak from on that front. But it doesn't really matter, turn it off. Some of us will do that anyway when enjoying a bit of spirited driving :banana: For example the Golfs ESP is no fun on dirt roads, much more fun without it.

Now I know this is not simply whether ESP is a good thing or not, which I think it is, that it can be turned off, is great. I'm up for any driver aid that still gives the driver a choice, especially as I am not the only one who drives the car, ESP is bound to assist the Mrs in a pinch and me too, if I got caught out tired or just not paying enough attention at the wrong moment. ESP just doesn't like sliding, whereas from time to time some of us do :P

Also if it is a problem for towing, what is it? I dont think that has been adequately addressed by those suggesting it is, and what is the difference b/w a bike rack and a heavy load in the back as Arctra has queried?.

For eg from my very limited experience with towing, acceleration can be the answer to sorting out a snaking trailer, so are we suggesting the ESP will stop you from accelerating in cirumstances where you have a snaking trailer? (load distribution being the real problem aside)







Hey Mav, I'm glad you've chimed in here as I know you're pretty knowledgeable about this sort of stuff. A couple of responses to what you're said above which I wouldn't mind your responses to (I'm not being argumentative, I'm trying to find stuff out):

1) To say it's irrelevant whether you know how to react to a trailer losing control when you have ESP doesn't sit well with me. ESP is a driver aid, and I would be more willing to give VW the benefit of the doubt that they would not put something on the car that makes it MORE dangerous than a car without it operated by a savvy driver.

The ESP would react quicker that you for sure, but would it really override your input to the point of being less stable? From what I understand, trailer assist will allow for more yaw when towing, so that would imply it would simply kick in earlier if you are towing without the proper wiring loom. Implications? Well, a lof of ABS noise, quicker wearing brakes, and an unpleasant driving experience if your trailer is heavy and swaying a lot, but I can't see what more would be caused.

I hear you on the somewhat "scare mongering" call of "potentially putting you in a worse position than if you didn't have ESP", but I counter it with the argument that you could get fatally injured crossing the road jay-walking. Yes, it could happen, but if your reasonably smart about things it's unlikely.

2) In my example of a bike carrier (as opposed to a proper trailer), the forces exerted on the rear of the vehicle are going to be different to those of a proper trailer. How would the extra weight of a 130km bike (plus whatever extra force is exerted on the rear of the car through the lever-effect of having the bike sticking out the back) be any different to having a heavy load (for arguments sake 200kg's) in the boot? Surely the Tiguans ESP is designed to handle a range of loads in the rear (with a typically German large-ish margin for safety)? I would actually be a little concerned that the Tiguan's ESP with the proper Trailer Assist loom would assume there is a trailer on when it's just the carrier, increase it's tolerances, and in so doing allow the rear to step out further than it ordinarily would be allowed to before ESP/Trailer Assist kicks in to save he day. Do you have any idea which is the greater threat to safety?

NZTiguan
19-11-2009, 11:38 AM
I think it would be a brave man indeed who would suggest he can "outthink" and "outperform" a specially designed system in the ESP to remove trailer tail shake etc. I repeat, just fit the correct system and you are then running the most up to date trailer safety system yet devised.

Maverick
19-11-2009, 12:06 PM
1) To say it's irrelevant whether you know how to react to a trailer losing control when you have ESP doesn't sit well with me. ESP is a driver aid, and I would be more willing to give VW the benefit of the doubt that they would not put something on the car that makes it MORE dangerous than a car without it operated by a savvy driver.

ESP operates within set parameters and makes assumptions about loads. It makes these decisions based on steering wheel angle, direction of travel, g-force meters, wheels speed and so forth. If a trailer becomes unstable (and allowing for the pendulum affect I mentioned below) the car is going to apply the brakes to either the wrong wheels and/or possibly too hard or too lightly.


The ESP would react quicker that you for sure, but would it really override your input to the point of being less stable? From what I understand, trailer assist will allow for more yaw when towing, so that would imply it would simply kick in earlier if you are towing without the proper wiring loom. Implications? Well, a lof of ABS noise, quicker wearing brakes, and an unpleasant driving experience if your trailer is heavy and swaying a lot, but I can't see what more would be caused.

From what I've read on the trailer assist part of the ESP it requires the driver to do nothing if the trailer starts swaying and if the driver starts to turn the wheel it reduces the effectiveness.

If you don't have the trailer assist on the car will not react the same way especially if the trailer is moving from side to side as the car will make incorrect adjustments by braking the wrong wheels.


I hear you on the somewhat "scare mongering" call of "potentially putting you in a worse position than if you didn't have ESP", but I counter it with the argument that you could get fatally injured crossing the road jay-walking. Yes, it could happen, but if your reasonably smart about things it's unlikely.

Point taken but I'm coming from the view that you have a safety feature in your car and you're at best reducing it's effectiveness by not fitting a suitable interface. The manual I assume will mention the trailer esp and future buyers or users of the car would assume that it's there and the reaction required to a trailer swaying is very different if the esp knows there is a trailer or not.


2) In my example of a bike carrier (as opposed to a proper trailer), the forces exerted on the rear of the vehicle are going to be different to those of a proper trailer. How would the extra weight of a 130km bike (plus whatever extra force is exerted on the rear of the car through the lever-effect of having the bike sticking out the back) be any different to having a heavy load (for arguments sake 200kg's) in the boot? Surely the Tiguans ESP is designed to handle a range of loads in the rear (with a typically German large-ish margin for safety)? I would actually be a little concerned that the Tiguan's ESP with the proper Trailer Assist loom would assume there is a trailer on when it's just the carrier, increase it's tolerances, and in so doing allow the rear to step out further than it ordinarily would be allowed to before ESP/Trailer Assist kicks in to save he day. Do you have any idea which is the greater threat to safety?

With the bike sticking so far out the back I would see something like a pendulum affect occurring. Having 200kg in and around the rear axle is different to having 130kg attached to the car 1m behind the rear axle (isn't the tow ball limit around 75kg?).

If a trailer was connected at the rear the trailer weight might be 400kg with a tow ball weight of 50kg. Would this have more of an affect on the ESP or would the tow ball weight of 130kg?


Fellas, differing opinions on the effects aside, isn't the simple solution for those who are confident/accustomed to towing a trailer/van, to simply turn the ESP off, or am I missing something here?

How? You can't turn off the ESP entirely on any VAG car?

Transporter
19-11-2009, 12:40 PM
Quick way to find out how sophisticated that wiring kit is; someone who has VW tow bar wiring opening the box to see what is inside, chances are, there would be just relays with the diodes.
Unfortunately my T5 doesn't have ESP (4motion didn't have that option in 2005).

Maverick
19-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Quick way to find out how sophisticated that wiring kit is; someone who has VW tow bar wiring opening the box to see what is inside, chances are, there would be just relays with the diodes.
Unfortunately my T5 doesn't have ESP (4motion didn't have that option in 2005).

Doesn't it have a connection to the CAN bus network? If so there will be a fair bit more than relays etc.

NZTiguan
19-11-2009, 12:57 PM
Quick way to find out how sophisticated that wiring kit is; someone who has VW tow bar wiring opening the box to see what is inside, chances are, there would be just relays with the diodes.
Unfortunately my T5 doesn't have ESP (4motion didn't have that option in 2005).

It's buried behind the side panels in the boot but believe me it does NOT just have a bunch of relays and diodes. It's an acknowledged safety factor in the Tiguan and VW would be in HUGE trouble if it did NOTHING more than allow the trailer wiring to not throw up faults which is what you're suggesting. Have a look on vortex and there are lots of descriptions of the required fitting and connections through the CANBUS etc. I'm quite sure on the other hand that any other "system" that costs less WILL be just be a bunch of relays and diodes to stop the faults being found by the Tig's brain !!

Frankly I'm absolutely staggered that Transporter would even suggest this !!!!

Transporter
19-11-2009, 02:49 PM
It's buried behind the side panels in the boot but believe me it does NOT just have a bunch of relays and diodes. It's an acknowledged safety factor in the Tiguan and VW would be in HUGE trouble if it did NOTHING more than allow the trailer wiring to not throw up faults which is what you're suggesting. Have a look on vortex and there are lots of descriptions of the required fitting and connections through the CANBUS etc. I'm quite sure on the other hand that any other "system" that costs less WILL be just be a bunch of relays and diodes to stop the faults being found by the Tig's brain !!

Frankly I'm absolutely staggered that Transporter would even suggest this !!!!

Why? It is not that hard to imagine simple component in that box telling to Tig's brain "I'm towing now" and appropriate ESP setting for towing is selected.
Since it doesn't know what you're towing.
But I might be wrong.

Anyway I'll remove my tow bar box and compare the part no. to the newer T5with ESP.

jimbomort
19-11-2009, 08:30 PM
How? You can't turn off the ESP entirely on any VAG car?

The manual is not entirely clear, but am I missing something by pressing the ESP button marked ESP OFF and noting that the sliding car symbol then stays on in the dash? Tried this on dirt in Golf 6 recently and seemed to me the ESP was OFF.

TRAILER ASSIST - hOW DOES IT KNOW YOU HAVE A TRAILER?
According to the manual, when the trailer electrical connection is used.

Mind you it is not apparent from the manual that there is any real way of telling whether the trailer program component of the ESP is in effect, but unless all factory fitted it appears unlikely.

Having now read about the trailer stabilisation program in the manual - yeh I should have read more of the thread before chipping in with "isn't the simple solution to turn the ESP off" :emo_baghead: Mind you still an option for those who dont think it will help.

Maverick
19-11-2009, 08:31 PM
Why? It is not that hard to imagine simple component in that box telling to Tig's brain "I'm towing now" and appropriate ESP setting for towing is selected.
Since it doesn't know what you're towing.
But I might be wrong.

Anyway I'll remove my tow bar box and compare the part no. to the newer T5with ESP.

Trailer detector control box for Tiguan
16 pin connector -T16i-
12 pin connector -T12h-

Has CAN bus Hi and Lo, power etc connection from the car and has the trailer connector run from it so as far as I can see it's a smart box that controls the trailers lights independently of the car (by that I mean it turns on the brake lights, indicators etc by picking up the commands from the CAN bus network).

Volkswagen has these comments for dealers regarding the retrofitting.

"Factory fitted towing attachment
If the vehicle was supplied with a factory fitted towing attachment, everything with regards to the technical and legal requirements has already been taken care of.
It should be noted that from the start of 1988 a “13-pin” trailer socket is installed in place of the conventional “7-pin” socket. This new socket allows connection at a later stage of additional electrical consumers on the trailer, for which no provision was made in the old socket, e.g. for a reversing light.
If the trailer to be towed has a “7-pin” connector, an adapter cable available from Volkswagen dealerships can be used. "

"Retrofitted towing attachment
If the vehicle is to be equipped with a retrofit towing attachment, the following should be observed:
The towing attachment is a safety element. Therefore, only a type approved device designed specifically for the vehicle should be used. It is recommended that a towing attachment from the Volkswagen accessory programme is used as it is the same as the factory fitted devices. For these towing attachments, the installation instructions supplied also have our approval."

"Engine cooling
Since higher demands are placed on the engine cooling system when a trailer is being towed, the cooling system is uprated in conjunction with factory fitted towing attachments if this is a technical necessity. This entails the installation of a heavy duty radiator fan or second radiator fan and/or a larger radiator, for example. Vehicles with air conditioning and those prepared for topical climates with air conditioning already have an uprated engine cooling system. On the Passat, a heavy duty radiator fan (PR no. 0Y2) can also be installed in the factory on its own. This makes it easier to retrofit a trailer towing system.
The cooling system should also be uprated if a towing attachment is retrofitted and provision for this has not been made in the factory. If this is not done, overheating of the cooling system cannot be ruled out if the engine is placed under high load (gradients, high ambient temperatures, heavy trailer). During conversion, the parts listed in ETKA (electronic parts catalogue) must be used for engine cooling in combination with trailer towing. In addition, the work instructions from the relevant workshop manuals must be followed.
Uprating of the cooling system can only be dispensed with if there is assurance that the engine is not going to be placed under excessive load, e.g.:
stay well below the gross combination weight
high ambient temperatures are unlikely
the vehicle is not driven up long, steep gradients
no very long journeys are undertaken
In any case, the coolant temperature gauge must be monitored carefully. If the needle of the display moves too far into the hot zone, the speed of the vehicle should be reduced immediately. In an emergency, it may even be necessary to stop and allow the engine to cool down. In this instance, the engine should be allowed to idle for about 2 minutes to avoid any build up of heat.
Notet On vehicles with air conditioning, cooling of the engine can be assisted by switching off the air conditioning system. In this way, there will be an improvement in pulling away and overtaking.
t If an except is made in uprating the cooling system (i.e. uprating has been dispensed with), the new owner must be informed of this fact when the vehicle is sold. "

"Retrofitting trailer detector control unit -J345-
Retrofitting a trailer detector control unit -J345- is possible in essence but not easy because it has to be connected to the CAN data bus of the vehicle. Then the control unit must be coded "

"It is recommended that alternative control units available on the open market and not approved by Volkswagen are avoided without exception. If equipment of this type is installed, the guarantee will become void. Generally, these are connected to the reversing lights and not integrated in the electrical system of the vehicle, which makes far more sense. The consequence is that faulty diagnoses in the bulb failure warning system or malfunctions can occur, among other things. Furthermore, dimmed bulbs (combined brake and tail light) cannot be actuated."

Maverick
19-11-2009, 08:36 PM
The manual is not entirely clear, but am I missing something by pressing the ESP button marked ESP OFF and noting that the sliding car symbol then stays on in the dash? Tried this on dirt in Golf 6 recently and seemed to me the ESP was OFF.

The ESP off turns off only a few of the (over 10) features that are in the braking system and ESP as we know it stays on but in a more limited capacity. You haven't been able to fully turn it off since the MY07 model on the golfs IIRC.


TRAILER ASSIST - hOW DOES IT KNOW YOU HAVE A TRAILER?
According to the manual, when the trailer electrical connection is used.

Mind you it is not apparent from the manual that there is any real way of telling whether the trailer program component of the ESP is in effect, but unless all factory fitted it appears unlikely.

As long as it's the VW control box fitted and CAN bus is connected along with the controller being programmed in to the gateway the system will work as per the factory one (read my post below for the exceptions).

Transporter
20-11-2009, 07:08 AM
Thanks Maverick for detailed description of the complexity of connecting the tow bar and its wiring to the car's electrics and electronic components.

It should be more than enough warning to everyone thinking of retrofitting trailer controller with something else.

DON’T DO IT and use correct part from VW or the warranty is void, if you muck something up in the electrics on the car, it could cost much more later.

Edit: Please, don't post a new question about tow bar without reading this thread, because you will find the answer you looking for faster by reading it and using the search function of the forum.