Oil Service cost/time

[brad]

From my post at BriSkoda:

Gents

Is there a standard service time for a 15,000km oil service?

I've just had mine done - did all the right things such as getting a quote first, etc and when I go to pay the bill it's 25% more than expected. The dealer says that the standard charge is 2 hours for an Oil Service. Then they "prove" this by showing me the standard charges for a 15,000km service on a 1.8T 5 valve Passat (because they have no Skoda information in their Service System).

So, is their a factory recomended service time for an oil service?

Further detail for us Aussies:
Rang dealer for a quote just to see how close to the origonal $235 I was quoted when buying the car. Service Advisor says "$290 including $130 worth of special Skoda oil." So I ask if I can supply my own VW compliant oil & he says yes. I figure that will bring the price down to ~$160.

When I pick the car up they want $214. I ask how $160 became $214 and they tell me it was 2 hours labour. They have no Skoda info in their system and show me an independant website www.carservice.com.au and use the drilldown to show me that Passats are 2 hours (cambelt inspection, etc which I don't have).

So, does $214 for an oil service without oil sound fair or a bit greedy?

[mikinoz]

I suggest no. Really if you look at it, the going rate for IT is 120-180/hr ex. and I would personally expect to be charged 80-100/hr ex. considering the upkeep of facilities, training and actual labour costs.

I am about to get slugged $600 for a 30K on a TDI Golf, so maybe I am just a sucker.

[gregozedobe]

Ask for a detailed breakdown on what work was done, then decide for yourself. Some dealers do a lot of unneccesary things to increase their revenue. It is irrelevant how long it takes to service a Passatt, what counts is how much time was actually spent working on YOUR car, and what they actually did.

If the detailed breakdown shows a cam belt inspection (on a car with a timing chain) I'd be mumbling about fraud and asking for a refund of that time at least.

[KWICKS]

^^^^good points Brad.

Seems steep given you have supplied the oil, presumably they would have charged you $344 if you didn't? Possibly the service centre is propping up the car sales team at the moment and priced accordingly?

[brad]

^^^^good points Brad.

Seems steep given you have supplied the oil, presumably they would have charged you $344 if you didn't? Possibly the service centre is propping up the car sales team at the moment and priced accordingly?
I think they just haven't a clue - possibly because Skoda aren't providing sufficient technical support.

I rang Skoda Information yesterday to try & get some Standard Times - maybe they do allow 2 hours to do an oil change. The guy tried to help but ultimately had no idea. Even he was surprised that the service book doesn't give an indication of how long the job is charged at.

Makes the services on Lynns (BlackMsport at C&I) Bimmer look cheap in comparison.

[mrx]

I think they just haven't a clue - possibly because Skoda aren't providing sufficient technical support.

I rang Skoda Information yesterday to try & get some Standard Times - maybe they do allow 2 hours to do an oil change. The guy tried to help but ultimately had no idea. Even he was surprised that the service book doesn't give an indication of how long the job is charged at.

Makes the services on Lynns (BlackMsport at C&I) Bimmer look cheap in comparison.

That database you linked to earlier shows the oil change service (15000km) to be 1 hr labour for a Golf GTI, which for all intents and purposes is the same as an Octavia RS. My local dealer charged $280 for the 15000km service inc. oil for my GTI - I thought it was a total rip to change the oil/filter & inspect for brake pad wear (that's all that's in the manual as being necessary). I will be going independant from now on.

[brad]

Just to add to the whole thing:

The lid of the coolant reservoir wasn't put back on properly - no harm done but shoddy work.

Also the Service Due indicator hasn't been reset.

I thought I'd try & build a relationship with the dealer but I'm feeling I'd rather do it myself.

[phaeton]

Ummm isn't badged as a VW :D

Surely they can just carry over sametimes etc

[woofy]

I remember when first looking into Skodas that people where reporting them to be a lot cheaper to service than even the VW equivalent. Doesn't look like this happened here.

That was in Australia too...

[brad]

All sorted.

Short version: They reduced the invoice from $214 down to $151.

Interesting bit: Skoda Australia have confirmed to me that nobody at Skoda knows how long any of the services should take and the the amount of time charged by the dealer is at the dealers discretion. This is also the case for VWs.

[Transporter]

From my post at BriSkoda:


Further detail for us Aussies:
Rang dealer for a quote just to see how close to the origonal $235 I was quoted when buying the car. Service Advisor says "$290 including $130 worth of special Skoda oil." So I ask if I can supply my own VW compliant oil & he says yes. I figure that will bring the price down to ~$160.

When I pick the car up they want $214. I ask how $160 became $214 and they tell me it was 2 hours labour. They have no Skoda info in their system and show me an independant website www.carservice.com.au and use the drilldown to show me that Passats are 2 hours (cambelt inspection, etc which I don't have).

So, does $214 for an oil service without oil sound fair or a bit greedy?

They don't buy oil for $130.00
They make profit on the oil, so that's why you cannot just deduct $130 from the total service cost.
In the automotive business you have income from the labor charge and profit from the parts you sell, if someone brings his/her own parts which results in reducing total profit to business then it has to be adjusted somehow.
Cost of that special Skoda oil to them is $76.00
Is it just oil change or does the service includes safety check as well?

[brad]

They don't buy oil for $130.00
They make profit on the oil, so that's why you cannot just deduct $130 from the total service cost.
In the automotive business you have income from the labor charge and profit from the parts you sell, if someone brings his/her own parts which results in reducing total profit to business then it has to be adjusted somehow.
Cost of that special Skoda oil to them is $76.00
Is it just oil change or does the service includes safety check as well?

Check Fluid levels, lights, tyres, brake pad thickness (through the wheel spokes) - if you call that a Safety Check then it had one.

Are you saying there should be a line item on the invoice that says "Profit on oil that we didn't sell you - $54" That's certainly a new way of gouging the customer.:frown:

Where I said:
I figure that will bring the price down to ~$160.
I negated to mention that I verbally confirmed a price of $160 with the Service Advisor.

I have no issues with paying a fair price for the actual parts used. I have no issues paying for the time spent working on the vehicle or the standard factory times.
I do have an issue with paying for an excessive amount of time for a simple, straight forward job that I could do in my driveway in an hour (Safety Check included). The only extra they did was hooking it up to the computer.

[gregozedobe]

Sounds like you need to get written quotes in future (or go to a different dealer/independent) ?

[Transporter]

Check Fluid levels, lights, tyres, brake pad thickness (through the wheel spokes) - if you call that a Safety Check then it had one.

Are you saying there should be a line item on the invoice that says "Profit on oil that we didn't sell you - $54" That's certainly a new way of gouging the customer.:frown:

Where I said: I negated to mention that I verbally confirmed a price of $160 with the Service Advisor.

I have no issues with paying a fair price for the actual parts used. I have no issues paying for the time spent working on the vehicle or the standard factory times.
I do have an issue with paying for an excessive amount of time for a simple, straight forward job that I could do in my driveway in an hour (Safety Check included). The only extra they did was hooking it up to the computer.

Sorry mate it wasn't clear from your original post that they agreed on $160.

Now lets talk about your ”a new way of gouging the customer”.

Lets say that you are building the house and in the builders quote there is the cost of installing electrical wiring for lets say $2000.
You’re a qualified electrician, so you tell them that you will do it yourself (supplying your own wires power points and so on).
For sure that they will not take $2000 off from the original quote because the profit from the building of your house is the profit from the parts and labour.
If too many customers would supply their own than the cost of labour to build the house would go up. Just think about it. The business is about making money.

My advice is get everything in writing next time or buy the oil and the tools and do everything yourself and save even more. :)

[jacob_1987]

I've got my Skoda serviced at a bloke I've serviced my car's at... I actually purchased the oil Nulon (10W-40W), and filter (from skoda)

In total cost me

Oil - 45
Filter - 19.95
Labor- 50

It's a bit late but it's $114, and i could of got it cheap if i got a generic filter and maybe a generic brand name filter. The thing about oils these days is that there soo much the same, yet there's always that urge to get that more flashy oil. The most important aspect is the grade is correct, especially for these diesels. Also trying to ensure they match VW501, just incase of any warrantry issues.

[jacob_1987]

Another interesting thing is that Skoda Special Oil ... which as I recall is Mobil ( the fancy green one) if you search well you can pick it up for $50, but also oil spec is 10/30. I'm not sure for a diesel if a warm viscosity of 30 is going to do the trick, probably better to stick with a bit thicker oil, to keep the engine running a tad longer.

[brad]

Lets say that you are building the house and in the builders quote there is the cost of installing electrical wiring for lets say $2000.
You’re a qualified electrician, so you tell them that you will do it yourself (supplying your own wires power points and so on).
For sure that they will not take $2000 off from the original quote because the profit from the building of your house is the profit from the parts and labour.
If too many customers would supply their own than the cost of labour to build the house would go up. Just think about it. The business is about making money.

My advice is get everything in writing next time or buy the oil and the tools and do everything yourself and save even more. :)

I can do it all myself and unlike many on this forum, I can also sign-off the service manual & retain warranty. I'm a qualified mechanic.

The reason i choose not to is that I was hoping to establish a "relationship" with the dealer which may (or may not) smooth any future warranty claims (if they arise). I figure if the service cost is reasonable, then it's a good investment.

WRT your supply of parts / electricians analogy. We never did that at any of the workshops that I worked at / ran /managed. If the customer supplied parts then we lost the cream on the job but generally we charged the same labour rate for everyone and only added a 10%-15% markup on our parts. By offering reasonable prices on our parts, our customers didn't bother sourcing their own bits as they knew they weren't being ripped-off. IMO, any markup beyond 20% is gouging.

I currently manage a $5mill/pa civil/mech/elec contract & our contractors are bound to a 10% markup on supplied parts (and they are audited to keep things transparent).

[brad]

I've got my Skoda serviced at a bloke I've serviced my car's at... I actually purchased the oil Nulon (10W-40W), and filter (from skoda)

In total cost me

Oil - 45
Filter - 19.95
Labor- 50

It's a bit late but it's $114, and i could of got it cheap if i got a generic filter and maybe a generic brand name filter. The thing about oils these days is that there soo much the same, yet there's always that urge to get that more flashy oil. The most important aspect is the grade is correct, especially for these diesels. Also trying to ensure they match VW501, just incase of any warrantry issues.


but also oil spec is 10/30. I'm not sure for a diesel if a warm viscosity of 30 is going to do the trick, probably better to stick with a bit thicker oil, to keep the engine running a tad longer.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about viscosities. The main thing as you said, is to ensure you used the oil that is Approved to the correct VW spec. Nulon do a 5w-40 that is VW505.

As for generic oil filters - for the $5 you save, I wouldn't bother. In some of the other VWs, generic oil filters (Ryco comes to mind), cause big pressure drops in the system. You need to stick with an OEM spec filter (but not necessarily purchased from dealership).

[Transporter]

I can do it all myself and unlike many on this forum, I can also sign-off the service manual & retain warranty. I'm a qualified mechanic.

The reason i choose not to is that I was hoping to establish a "relationship" with the dealer which may (or may not) smooth any future warranty claims (if they arise). I figure if the service cost is reasonable, then it's a good investment.

WRT your supply of parts / electricians analogy. We never did that at any of the workshops that I worked at / ran /managed. If the customer supplied parts then we lost the cream on the job but generally we charged the same labour rate for everyone and only added a 10%-15% markup on our parts. By offering reasonable prices on our parts, our customers didn't bother sourcing their own bits as they knew they weren't being ripped-off. IMO, any markup beyond 20% is gouging.

I currently manage a $5mill/pa civil/mech/elec contract & our contractors are bound to a 10% markup on supplied parts (and they are audited to keep things transparent).



You charge 10%-15% mark up if you charge enough (overcharge) for labour - IMHO.

I'm sure that the dealer quoted you no more than the recommended retail price for that oil.
I know that recommended retail prices are high, but people are happy when they bargain the price down, so isn't it all of us fault that these RRP are high?

If I would let the dealer to do the job I pay the bill and I wouldn't make a noise over $50
let alone to go and buy my own oil and let them to put it in my engine - this is not a way to establish a "relationship" with the dealer which may (or may not) smooth any future warranty claims (if they arise). :duh:

But since you said they verbally confirmed $160 then that changes whole situation and it is the receptionist mistake not to note it on the Job sheet but again if you want to establish a "relationship" with the dealer you wouldn’t want to go about it and make everybody there to remember you for that.
There was a better way to save your $50 :)

P.S.
I'd ask you and answer a question related to your last sentance but I would go off topic and the post could be deleted.
You cam PM me.

[jacob_1987]

The interesting this is that after 2 incidences I purchased oil filters from Skoda, both filters seam quite different. THe first I purchased seemed as though it the filter had more lines (the triangle filter lines if u know what I'm saying) whilst the second seamed like it had less. It was weird, but they were both the same part and packaging. Not too sure about how Skoda Australia is stocking their stuff, I'm personally thinking of going down to VW and ordering the Passat/Golf one to see if it's any different.

[gregozedobe]

It is worth noting that it seems the 1.8 TSI engine requires a different filter to the previous VAG 4 cylinder engines (there was a thread on Briskoda about an independent servicer who had problems with a 1.8TSI engine after he did an oil change).

[brad]

It is worth noting that it seems the 1.8 TSI engine requires a different filter to the previous VAG 4 cylinder engines (there was a thread on Briskoda about an independent servicer who had problems with a 1.8TSI engine after he did an oil change).

I think Jacob has a diesel with a cartridge filter rather than a spin-on (like a 1.8TSI)

I think with any of the parts, don't buy without an engine code or VIN match up. I've seen too many cock ups with Euro cars.

[woofy]

Just as I posted in another thread, I've asked Skoda about the interim service 7500km/6mths and been told $325.

My Mazda 6 minor services sit near that, but the interim are around $200. I've now asked what the 15,000km will be as I bet it's the same price.

This dealer is also an Audi dealer/service, funny enough another Mazda dealer I used was the same, and they always charged more due to Audi customers just blindly paying lots...for some reason it seems that selling a more expensive car there means it flows into the "budget" cars as well.

[brad]

Just as I posted in another thread, I've asked Skoda about the interim service 7500km/6mths and been told $325.

My Mazda 6 minor services sit near that, but the interim are around $200. I've now asked what the 15,000km will be as I bet it's the same price.


Maverick reckons he gets his GTI Golf 7500km oil & filter change for ~$200 inc LL 504.00 compliant oil, loan car & BJ from the receptionist. Perhaps you have to be quite specific about wanting just the oil & filter rather than "a minor service".

I used to do the whole interim/short oil changes thing but I think oil technology has progressed enough that the only person to benefit from my extra expenditure will be the next owner. YMMV but I think I'd rather save the servicing money & put it towards better tyres when that is due.

[woofy]

Yeah I did say I just wanted the oil changed. I have a flow on car system, where i keep my new car for 3-4yrs then it goes to my wife and I get something new. So we will have it for at least 6-7 yrs so well worth looking after it. Our current 6 I changed over early but have put fully synthetic in as soon as I could for that reason.

[brad]

Yeah I did say I just wanted the oil changed. I have a flow on car system, where i keep my new car for 3-4yrs then it goes to my wife and I get something new. So we will have it for at least 6-7 yrs so well worth looking after it. Our current 6 I changed over early but have put fully synthetic in as soon as I could for that reason.
How many kms do you do in 8 years? 200,000? If you can't get 200,000 trouble-free kilometres with enough buffer to onsell with a clear conscience then:confused:

Thinking back over all my cars in the past 20 years ( a few before that would have benefitted though), none of the problems would have been avoided or reduced by more frequent oil changes.

Don't forget, the OEM oil in our Skodas is good for up to 30,000km if the vehicle is on variable service regime.

[woofy]

I think the 6 will be still under 100,000km when we go to sell, so maybe I might give this a miss. I still want the squeaking door rubber or whatever it is looked at so maybe just get that dealt with.

I have heard that VW engines had problems with oil sludge though, and my cousin who is an Audi/VW mechanic says they recommend the interim services for everything except rental and govt fleet cars which is what prompted me.

But he also said he never sees any metal or anything in cars that go through to the 15,000kms either.

BTW has anyone else noticed the bright orange dipstick leaves orange on their hands and/or fades?

[brad]

I have heard that VW engines had problems with oil sludge though, and my cousin who is an Audi/VW mechanic says they recommend the interim services for everything except rental and govt fleet cars which is what prompted me.
I think that was the old 1.8T engines. Also a lot to do with running & environmental conditions such as low temperatures, stop/start traffic, short runs etc. I also think a lot of users took their cars to "quick-change" oil places that haven't a clue & use one type of oil for all vehicles.

The first commercial garage i worked in specialised in cheap oil changes - 1982 & $10 for oil & filter change. The oil we used was bought in 1000L lots and was recycled. They paid us 10c a litre to buy our old oil and we paid them 29c a litre to buy it back. We used to run it in our own cars & changed it every 1000km (unless it all burnt off in the interim). In 4 years I think we only had one problem and that was because the owner didn't check the oil level & let it run dry. So I figure if crap oil like that is "OK", then good oil is like a miracle product.:)

I think a lot of the oil change thing depends on usage - if my wife was using the car for her normal collection of short trips throughout the day & the engine never getting properly hot then I'd probably go to short changes but for me, I drive 3-5 km in a 70 zone then 40km in a 100-110 zone, repeat in the evening so everything gets nice & hot.



BTW has anyone else noticed the bright orange dipstick leaves orange on their hands and/or fades?

Nope

[woofy]

I work in an office, but also do lots of trips around town. The trips are fine, but the run into the office is sluggish, the car does get warmed up though on the way. Petrol usage on that run is horrible in the Skoda, I see it drop in normal driving around home.

Other times I do freeway travel..and around home its all clear 70-80-100 roads, and easy sailing. My fuel usage drops over weekends due to the nicer/faster roads.

Got a good price from Volkspower..so might use them if I decide to get it done. Still want Skoda to check over a few little issues.

[indulis]

Had it for 5l for around $30. This is VW 50400 50700 compliant.

[brad]

Had it for 5l for around $30. This is VW 50400 50700 compliant.
Can you link to the Tech Data sheet to show that.

I use Edge 5w30 and AFAIK it is only VW502/505. /checks..... Here (http://www.castroledge.com.au/downloads/variant_factory_EDGE_5w30.pdf)

The 0w40 is the same (VW502/505).

Both of these are fine for use on a 15,000km/12month service regime but are definately not the same as 504.00/507.00 (which is really only needed for the variable LL service regime).

[gregozedobe]

Can you link to the Tech Data sheet to show that.

I use Edge 5w30 and AFAIK it is only VW502/505.

IIRC the Edge Castrol sells in Australia is NOT 504/507 compliant, but the Edge Castrol sells in the UK IS, so as Brad implies, be very careful where you are getting your information from.

[jacob_1987]

Yeah you should watch... right now the top 2 I'd say is *drum roll*

Castrol SLX (there is a vw50x.x) compliant (they have these in 5L apparently somewhere)

Penrite Enviroplus 5w40

These are approved ie. they are approved by VW rather than made to specification like the Nulon, here's an exert from the website about the Nulon :
Meets or exceeds the specifications of the following vehicle manufacturers:
Ford : M2C-153E
Holden : HN 2314
Mercedes Benz : MB 229.1
Volkswagen : VW 500.00, 505.00

It meets or exceeds however isn't approved this oil is only approved for :
Approvals and Specifications
American Petroleum Institute : API SL/CF
European : ACEA A2/B2-02, A3/B3-98, ILSACGF3
Society of Automotive Engineers : SAE 10W-30

Sooo yeah, something I learnt on the forum

[Transporter]

Yeah you should watch... right now the top 2 I'd say is *drum roll*

Castrol SLX (there is a vw50x.x) compliant (they have these in 5L apparently somewhere)

Penrite Enviroplus 5w40

These are approved ie. they are approved by VW rather than made to specification like the Nulon, here's an exert from the website about the Nulon :
Meets or exceeds the specifications of the following vehicle manufacturers:
Ford : M2C-153E
Holden : HN 2314
Mercedes Benz : MB 229.1
Volkswagen : VW 500.00, 505.00

It meets or exceeds however isn't approved this oil is only approved for :
Approvals and Specifications
American Petroleum Institute : API SL/CF
European : ACEA A2/B2-02, A3/B3-98, ILSACGF3
Society of Automotive Engineers : SAE 10W-30

Sooo yeah, something I learnt on the forum

Only EnviroPlus 5W30 is approved by VW for 504.00 and for 507.00 the other Penrite products are not approved they are only made to VW standards, which means not approved.

[jacob_1987]

You are right I had a look today for my Oil, and it was 5w30, it says on the bottom Made for Volkswagens...
I'm using it atm and so far so good, it's driven 6000 km's already and not a drop less has been burnt. It's very hard to be honest finding a vw approved oil, and so it's best to stick the same oil once you find your ideal oil.

[indulis]

IIRC the Edge Castrol sells in Australia is NOT 504/507 compliant, but the Edge Castrol sells in the UK IS, so as Brad implies, be very careful where you are getting your information from.

:duh:
Of course the same product would be different in different countries, why didn't I guess that! Yes I used a European list which I found here http://www.my-gti.com/7/volkswagen-oils-50400-and-50700

Link to Castrol oil tech specs site http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/default.aspx
Castrol SLX_Professional_LLIII_Powerflow which is 504.00 and 507.00 compliant (http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf%5C8458_SLX_Professional_LLIII_Powerflow_119390 _2007_03.pdf)

[Swallowtail]

:duh:
Of course the same product would be different in different countries, why didn't I guess that! Yes I used a European list which I found here http://www.my-gti.com/7/volkswagen-oils-50400-and-50700


Maverick from this forum runs that site - may be worth letting him know that so he can put a note to that effect on that page.

[woofy]

I see another Mazda person here hey Swallowtail?

[indulis]

Maverick from this forum runs that site - may be worth letting him know that so he can put a note to that effect on that page.

Put a comment in on the site so he should see it.

[mrx]

Who cares if castrol 5W-30 meets 502 or 504 spec? As long as it meets one of them you're okay to use it, as we only have fixed interval servicing in Australia anyway. Don't assume the dealers follow the VW spec either. One particular VW dealer here in WA used Supersyn 10-40 in my GTI which doesn't meet the spec, it is in fact the oil for diesels. They claim they have approval from VW Aus to use it. I stay away from that place, and feel far more comfortable using Castrol Edge 5W-30.

[gregozedobe]

Who cares if castrol 5W-30 meets 502 or 504 spec? As long as it meets one of them you're okay to use it, as we only have fixed interval servicing in Australia anyway.

I do :). AFAIK 504.00/507.00 is a significantly better oil than 502.xx, so I put the better oil in mine (mind you, I do tend to keep my vehicles for much longer than average).

[Transporter]

Maybe it would be worthwhile to mention that VW504.00 and 507.00 once approved by VW are fully synthetic oils resistant to oxidations and offer better protection for the engine since they don't degrade as fast as the lower specs oils.
Also when the oil is not approved by VW and only meets specs, it could mean that it is only semi synthetic oil or even just mineral oil.
Example is PENRITE HPR Diesel 5 (synthetic performance) that is 5W40 where Penrite says Meets VW 506.01, which would be suitable for R5 engine (used in VW T5 and Touareg R5) up to year 2005 however VW oil approved for 506.01 applications is 0W30 always.

So, when you use the lower specs oil you could be using mineral or not fully synthetic oil.

[brad]

Who cares if castrol 5W-30 meets 502 or 504 spec? As long as it meets one of them you're okay to use it, as we only have fixed interval servicing in Australia anyway. Don't assume the dealers follow the VW spec either. One particular VW dealer here in WA used Supersyn 10-40 in my GTI which doesn't meet the spec, it is in fact the oil for diesels. They claim they have approval from VW Aus to use it. I stay away from that place, and feel far more comfortable using Castrol Edge 5W-30.

I can see your point MRX and I use Edge Sport 5w-30 myself. It's just that some people are really particular about these things and there are still people out there (wrongly) saying that 504/507 is the only spec oil that should be used in our generation of engines.

Grego: Nobody has ever been able to anser this for me, maybe you can?
Technically or chemically, what makes the 504 spec superior to 502 (I'll leave the diesel/dpf side of it out for simplicity). I appreciate that it is the latest spec and that 504 has a longer service life under ideal conditions but what technically/chemically makes it a superior spec to use under normal 15,000km/12 months service cycles?

[gregozedobe]

Technically or chemically, what makes the 504 spec superior to 502 (I'll leave the diesel/dpf side of it out for simplicity). I appreciate that it is the latest spec and that 504 has a longer service life under ideal conditions but what technically/chemically makes it a superior spec to use under normal 15,000km/12 months service cycles?

I don't have a specific answer to that question, nor do I recall reading one. It may be on the US based TDI club forum, as there is a huge amount of info on lubrication there. Also you may be able to get that info if you approach the tech support areas of the oil manufacturers themselves.

What I believe is:

VW themselves appear to think that 506.01 is better (more wear resistance) than 502.xx, as they are very careful to tell owners of the early R5 (5 cyl TDI fitted to T5 Transporters and Touaregs) that 506.01 is the ONLY oil that can be used for these motors (regardless of short or long servicing schedules). If 502.xx passed the same tests (as 506.01) I'm sure VW would allow it as option for 12 month servicing like they do for other VW TDI engines.

From what I've read these particular R5 motors had fairly "weak" hardening of the cams and followers, and thus were rather prone to wearing out cams and followers. This indicates better wear resistance is a significant difference between 506.01 and 502.xx. Of course that doesn't tell me whether the owners who had cam trouble were changing their oil every 12 months/15,000km, or whether they even used 506.01 like they were supposed to.

Reports on the Brickyard forum indicate that 504.00/507.00 has even better wear resistance than 506.01 (one of the members there chased up the tech specs for these two oils). Many owners of early R5 engines are now using 504.00/507.00 rather than 506.01.

506.01 seems to be more prone to being burnt/consumed in normal highway running by the R5 motors than 504.00/507.00 in the same conditions.

506.01 is getting more difficult to obtain, while 504.00/507.00 is reasonably easy to find.


What oil to use in your engine is something every owner of a vehicle should decide on (and enforce). I am obsessive about using a very good oil in all my engines. It is also peace of mind for me. If I know I have used a really good oil and changed it (and oil filters) regularly then I can relax and not worry. Even if something does go wrong I can console myself by telling myself I did my best and it wasn't my fault ( I hate it when I know I could have done something better).

[brad]

Grego: All that information is great if you are running a diesel but I was specifically asking about the 502.00 & 504.00 petrol spec oils.

If I can see a good technical/chemical reason to use 504.00 then I'll do it but
more expensive != better
latest spec != better

I've seen a few references to 504.00 that mention "environmental reasons" and the cynic in me equates that to taking out some of the additives which might be environmentally harsh but are good for our engines.

[mrx]

It's just that some people are really particular about these things and there are still people out there (wrongly) saying that 504/507 is the only spec oil that should be used in our generation of engines.


Yes, I have learnt all about being particular after joining VW forums. I used to think I was pretty careful about getting things right, but the bar has been raised.

Personally I'm happy using anything off either list, and in all honesty I would expect any fully synthetic oil of the correct weight from any reputable oil company to be fine, provided it is changed regularly.

Each to their own, Greg wants piece of mind at any cost, I want a good piece of mind/cost ratio.

[gregozedobe]

Grego: All that information is great if you are running a diesel but I was specifically asking about the 502.00 & 504.00 petrol spec oils.

Oops, sorry for the confusion - AFAIK all 504.00 oils are also 507.00. which is where I went off on my "diesel" tangent :duh:

For petrol applications I guess you'll have to do your own research - the only snippet of petrol specific oil info I can remember is that some years ago there was a lot of trouble with sludge in VW petrol motors in the US, and that was related to oil specs somehow.

Please let us know what you find out, it adds to the corporate knowledge.

[woofy]

Lol.....I think I resurrected this thread talking about whether I need an interim service because I had heard about the oil sludge as well.....and now it gets back to it...lol