Just got APR on the pirelli

[kryten2001]

Hey guys.

I got the pirelli last Friday, and had it booked in this morning for its APR treatment. Over here in WA, I got Quattro's to take care of it, and I couldn't be happier - great service, and a very knowledgeable bloke.

Anyway, the tune, holy snapping duck sh*t does it go like stink. The standard pirelli was already fast, but this is eye popping quick.

I'm not sure of actual figures as apparently the 'new' new pirelli tunes take into account the lack of fuel pressure provided (you need a fuel pump to get full horsepower, it's a seperate tune) - but no matter.

The thing I like best (which really worried me), is the power delivery. I don't like redlining the crap out the car (I paddleshift around 5-6,000 rpm) - but that's where the power appears to be. The increased torque is just incredible, it just belts.

Anybody considering a tune, don't - just do it.

Fingers crossed I don't get any of those nasty engine warning lights.....

Next comes the new fuel pump, full exhaust and 328mm brembos!..

[Pullstarter]

Would the power outputs be the same on a Pirelli and a stock GTI after APR tunage or would the Pirelli be a bit more grunty still?

[decksla]

are they still quoting 230kw?

i pmed Guy and he said that a fuel pump isnt needed till after stage 2.

i was wanting to go down the APR flash + downpipe path which is essentially stage 2.

[decksla]

sorry, also, what it cost you? 2K as on their website?

cheers

[tinto]

Would the power outputs be the same on a Pirelli and a stock GTI after APR tunage or would the Pirelli be a bit more grunty still?
Pirelli has a hardware advantage with the larger turbo, so would be quicker.

[kryten2001]

Would the power outputs be the same on a Pirelli and a stock GTI after APR tunage or would the Pirelli be a bit more grunty still?

No, a tuned GTI is about the same as a Pirelli (out of the box). 180kw.

The tuned pirelli is about 230 ish.

If you get a stage-2 though (k04 turbo, tune) then it's about the same.

[kryten2001]

are they still quoting 230kw?

i pmed Guy and he said that a fuel pump isnt needed till after stage 2.

i was wanting to go down the APR flash + downpipe path which is essentially stage 2.

Apparently yeah. The 'new' tune they're putting out (revised) allows for the fact the pirelli's pump isn't quite up to snuff.

Once you get the exhaust+fuel pump, it's good for about 240-250kw, 430nm.

[kryten2001]

sorry, also, what it cost you? 2K as on their website?

cheers

yeah mate, $1995. Cheapest 50kw you'll ever see.

[zz2]

yeah mate, $1995. Cheapest 50kw you'll ever see.

nah mate... from Dec to January bluefin was offering their Pirelli tune with the hand held computer for around $850 delivered. that was 20% off the normal price.

i dont want to rip your purchase or anything but it makes APR looking like a f*king rip for similar gains. plus the advantage of bluefin is you can load it on and off yourself for dealer visits and the stage 2 map is free!

i have bluefin and its best thing i have ever bought for my car

[kryten2001]

nah mate... from Dec to January bluefin was offering their Pirelli tune with the hand held computer for around $850 delivered. that was 20% off the normal price.

i dont want to rip your purchase or anything but it makes APR looking like a f*king rip for similar gains. plus the advantage of bluefin is you can load it on and off yourself for dealer visits and the stage 2 map is free!

i have bluefin and its best thing i have ever bought for my car

Oh well, I'm happy.

[Maverick]

nah mate... from Dec to January bluefin was offering their Pirelli tune with the hand held computer for around $850 delivered. that was 20% off the normal price.

i dont want to rip your purchase or anything but it makes APR looking like a f*king rip for similar gains. plus the advantage of bluefin is you can load it on and off yourself for dealer visits and the stage 2 map is free!

i have bluefin and its best thing i have ever bought for my car

There's more to a tune then just price.


Do bluefin have a local dealer? Nope.
What sort of support do you get out of superchips given they are based in the UK?
What happens if your handheld device fails when changing maps?
What if it get's disconnected during the flashing?
How much development does superchips put in?
Do they do their own maps or use someone elses?
Do they cater for fuel pump upgrades and so on?

The big issue is what if you have problems, who do you call to help if you have bluefin? APR are local and will sort out problems quickly.

As I said there is a lot more to a tune then price.

Using your logic you got ripped off by buying bluefin because the ChippedUK ST3 is cheaper and includes TWO maps.

For me paying the extra for the much better service is worth it many times over.

[Pullstarter]

Scheisse!! That's some seriously good numbers! Total awesomeness!!

[Maverick]

Oh well, I'm happy.

And that's what matters. I went down the path of the cheap hand held unit from the UK and it cost me months of stuffing around, hundreds of dollars in tests and more before I had to send it back and even then had to get trading standards in the UK involved.

APR does what it's supposed to, does it well, you know that they have spent a lot time and money using experienced people to create the maps and that you have a great support network that is just a phone call or visit away and that have direct contact with APR in the US who make them maps.

Many of these smaller companies buy maps off other companies, some don't even provide dynographs and you don't know how safe the map is. And you have no support when things go wrong, what happens if you have to get the ECU taken out to try and recover it, with the foreign units you would have to send the ECU to them.

Each to their own but I like what I have, I'm very happy with it and the cheap units are a waste of time from my experience.

[kryten2001]

There's more to a tune then just price.


Whilst I agree with everything posted above, sorry guys I didn't mean this to turn into a chip flame war.. Just wanted to let you know I'm well happy with the package and service I got.

[zz2]

Oh well, I'm happy.

and thats the most important thing!

i strongly recomend making the most of WA law and getting a radar detector with your new weapon.

any plans on taking it to motorplex to see what she will do? :biggrin:

[kryten2001]

APR does what it's supposed to, does it well, you know that they have spent a lot time and money using experienced people to create the maps and that you have a great support network that is just a phone call or visit away and that have direct contact with APR in the US who make them maps.


Without fanning any flames, this was exactly my experience. I knew that some pirelli owners were having problems with their tunes because of the fuel supply issue. I spoke with some dood over in QLD about it, and he spoke with my local rep and made sure I had the right tune.

The local service was absolutely brilliant, and I'm going back there not only for a lot of future mods, but all my servicing too.

Not bagging any other supplier, I have no experience with them at all - but the APR experience was absolutely first rate. Truth be told, I would have paid a lot more for it than $2k considering the experience and confidence I got with dealing with them.

Just my experience, not meant to solicit another flame war.

[kryten2001]

and thats the most important thing!

i strongly recomend making the most of WA law and getting a radar detector with your new weapon.

any plans on taking it to motorplex to see what she will do? :biggrin:

I didn't buy a pirelli for straight line performance (even though it has it)... No, but I do plan on taking it to the AHG track once the brakes are on and this heatwave has dissipated somewhat!...

[zz2]

I didn't buy a pirelli for straight line performance (even though it has it)... No, but I do plan on taking it to the AHG track once the brakes are on and this heatwave has dissipated somewhat!...

interested in organising a tuning arvo there?

[kryten2001]

interested in organising a tuning arvo there?

Absolutely.

Just give me a little while to get the mods completed and for this heat to die down a bit, and I'm all for it.

[zz2]

Absolutely.

Just give me a little while to get the mods completed and for this heat to die down a bit, and I'm all for it.

you dont have to wait.. i have been there atleast 4 times now with stock brakes and they coped fine! :driver:

admittedly its not the longest track and its pretty tight and my car isnt putting out the the same sort of figures as yours

[kryten2001]

you dont have to wait.. i have been there atleast 4 times now with stock brakes and they coped fine! :driver:

admittedly its not the longest track and its pretty tight and my car isnt putting out the the same sort of figures as yours

Yeah I'll hold off, I want to get all the mods sorted and some k's on the clock (it's only got 270kms on it now), before I wring the living sh*t out of it on the track!!

[Greg Roles]

Congrats mate and good on you, you must be happy as with a beastie like that. Can only imagine what it's like, as I'm amazed how quick a diesel is let alone a stock GTI....

You've definately got the godzilla of Golf's!:bowdown:

[gtimk5]

No need to steal someones thunder.
He is another very happy GTI owner, and thats the topic here.
Well done Kryten, pleased to hear that you are enjoying your Pirelli mate!!
Andrew :)

[Sharkie]

FYI .... chipped std GTI is 188kw, stock Pirelli is 169kw, a reasonable difference and the chipped GTI is much faster than a stock Pirelli.

Chipped, the Pirelli is 229kw and awesome. You need to spend at least $10K+ on a std GTI to get near the same level. Cheapest stock K04 motor to buy.

And the Pirelli's are about $48K driveaway now ........

[faisan]

Wow APR already?!! Is your Pirelli even run in yet? :)

[geoff_gti]

Congrats on your purchase again mate, didn't realise you'd have it back so quickly! Won't be at their shop til later in the week and was hoping I'd see it.

I wouldn't personally have chipped it so soon or used the launch control half a dozen times, but that's just me. They're well engineered um, engines so I'm sure it will be fine.


I spoke with some dood over in QLD about it, and he spoke with my local rep and made sure I had the right tune.
The local service was absolutely brilliant, and I'm going back there not only for a lot of future mods, but all my servicing too.

By that I'm guessing you spoke to Guy Harding who then spoke to Brian? Brian and Jake do an excellent job (maybe I'll get a free service eventually for all this goodwill haha)


BTW guys, keep you eyes open in the WA events section!!! We're looking at organising a tuning arvo soon already (Mark, see? That is me telling you about it!) :D

Perhaps you can come and show it off on Sunday (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=25170).

[kryten2001]

Congrats mate and good on you, you must be happy as with a beastie like that. Can only imagine what it's like, as I'm amazed how quick a diesel is let alone a stock GTI....

You've definately got the godzilla of Golf's!:bowdown:

Yeah mate, the power is just sublime. Its like riding a wave or torque.

The little sonic booms when you change up gears makes you laugh every time.

Absolute v8 killer, no doubt about it. Plus it can go around corners fast too.

[kryten2001]

Wow APR already?!! Is your Pirelli even run in yet? :)

Errr nope..... It was chipped at 242 kms.... hehe.

I'm not caining the crap out of it, but I'm not driving like a grandma either... Let it warm up, then give it a reasonable amount of berries.

[kryten2001]

Congrats on your purchase again mate, didn't realise you'd have it back so quickly! Won't be at their shop til later in the week and was hoping I'd see it.

I wouldn't personally have chipped it so soon or used the launch control half a dozen times, but that's just me. They're well engineered um, engines so I'm sure it will be fine.


By that I'm guessing you spoke to Guy Harding who then spoke to Brian? Brian and Jake do an excellent job (maybe I'll get a free service eventually for all this goodwill haha)


BTW guys, keep you eyes open in the WA events section!!! We're looking at organising a tuning arvo soon already (Mark, see? That is me telling you about it!) :D

Perhaps you can come and show it off on Sunday (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=25170).

Ta mate. Yep, I'm up for a tuning day, but I'd like to put at least 1000 kms on it before I thrash the living daylights out of it.

Plus I'll have the brembos on by then too... :biggrin::biggrin:

[bazzle]

Have you thought about keeping it VW and fitting R32 brakes instead of Brembos?

Bazzle

[kryten2001]

Have you thought about keeping it VW and fitting R32 brakes instead of Brembos?

Bazzle

No, not really. I wasn't so concerned about keeping it OEM, and I'm not really budget constrained, so I wanted the best.

Just bummed out the 355mm brakes wont fit, 328's it'll have to be.

[POLARBEAR666]

AS far as hand held tuning from UK vs Aussie tuning.

How does APR cater to switching back to your factory map when you want to go into service? Is it still just using that system of using the indicator stalk.

SEcondly, the bluefin tunes seem to be a modified version of YOUR factory map, which is important if it contains any electronic identifiers.

I am not convinced either way but from what I have seen I prefer to have the control of loading and unloading maps and also upgrades.

I don't want to have to head to some dealer (who may have closed down) just to get the map put back on if the dealership wipes my cars ecu.

[kryten2001]

How does APR cater to switching back to your factory map when you want to go into service? Is it still just using that system of using the indicator stalk.


Yeah you just turn the car on with the cruise control turned on, and hold down the set button until you get program 1 (tuned) or program 2 (stock). Then release the set button, and you're away.



I am not convinced either way but from what I have seen I prefer to have the control of loading and unloading maps and also upgrades.


Yeah the APR stuff allows you to load up all sorts of maps/tunes, and they offer free upgrades as you modify your hardware too. I need to get a new tune when the exhaust/fuel pump goes in, and that's all included.. Apparently.



I don't want to have to head to some dealer (who may have closed down) just to get the map put back on if the dealership wipes my cars ecu.

I'm not really sure how that part works. I don't think the dealership can see the program unless they go looking for it, and apparently the new APR stuff has some sort of 'secret' keycode or procedure before the regular stalk-program can be used. I didn't opt for it, as I'm not really all that fussed. The local APR rep here only does the APR as an aside, they're a qualified Audi workshop so I'm sure they'll be around for a while.

It's a fair point though, who does a reprogram if the local rep goes belly up.

All in all though, I couldn't be happier. The performance upgrade is significant, the car really is quite brutal. I just hope the DSG is up to the task of handling all that torque.

[Maverick]

AS far as hand held tuning from UK vs Aussie tuning.

How does APR cater to switching back to your factory map when you want to go into service? Is it still just using that system of using the indicator stalk.

You switch to the programs via the indicator stalk. The dealer doesn't know that it's there if you enable the security lockout that requires a pin.


SEcondly, the bluefin tunes seem to be a modified version of YOUR factory map, which is important if it contains any electronic identifiers.

As is the APR. There are no specific maps for each car. They create the occasional upgrade to a map but there are not that many variations. The dealer can't tell the difference with either system.


I am not convinced either way but from what I have seen I prefer to have the control of loading and unloading maps and also upgrades.

Why? You can swap via the cruise control stalk with APR in around 15 seconds and can even do it whilst driving (although it recommends against this). Upgrades if there are any are performed free by the APR dealer.

The handheld unit takes around 12 minutes to change the mappings on the car.


I don't want to have to head to some dealer (who may have closed down) just to get the map put back on if the dealership wipes my cars ecu.

The chances of the dealership applying an update to your car is very remote, there was one update that I know off for the TSI and that was the early ones. The GTI hasn't had an update for years.

Don't forget that if the handheld unit needs an upgrade (although hopefully they sorted out all the problems) it has to be sent back to the UK so while it's away you can't change maps.

They both have pros and cons and the bluefin is a good device but local support is not there and if something goes wrong you're on your own. After the problems with ChippedUK and it's ST3 rubbish I'm steering clear of the handheld devices and going with local support. I really like(d) the concept but there are too many variables and from what I can see insufficient testing before they're released.

Having the flash done directly by people that can recover the ECU if something goes wrong and that have local support is the way to go, be it APR, GIAC or REVO research the product, research the backup and make up your own mind. Buying on price alone is foolhardy in my opinion because like with many things you get what you pay for.

[gtimk5]

I dont think we need to go down the same old VERY boring subject of chips.
This always offends some very sensitive people here and turns into a bunfight.
Anymore chat about different companies will be deleted asap.
This is not the topic here..... :duh:

[GeorgeS3]

Kryten2001,

After 4 days of chipped performance in the Pirelli, how have you found the traction, especially when cornering.

[kryten2001]

Kryten2001,

After 4 days of chipped performance in the Pirelli, how have you found the traction, especially when cornering.

No problem. I've had it on 3/4 power going around both tight and sweeping bends, and I've had no problems. I wasn't game to put the foot down any further, it was already accelerating like a banshee.

The TC light did come on once on doing a kickdown from 3rd to 2nd at 80km/h, though (in a straight line).... powwaaaaa !....

A LSD might be nice for lower speed acceleration..

I tell ya if it was a RWD it would be automotive nirvana. Mind you, with all that power I've not encountered any problems with torque steer, so it's very good.

Absolutely 100% sold on DSG. I was a real manual purist until I drove a DSG car, now I'm a convert.

[Maverick]

I tell ya if it was a RWD it would be automotive nirvana. Mind you, with all that power I've not encountered any problems with torque steer, so it's very good.

The reason for the lack of torque steer is that the electromagnetic steering system counteracts the torque automatically.

[kryten2001]

The reason for the lack of torque steer is that the electromagnetic steering system counteracts the torque automatically.

Those germans think of everything.

[Edra]

How come the 355 mm brembos dont fit dammit, is it just the 18s are too small? I had my heart set on the white 355mm brembo cal

Its quite remarkable to think that with just a flash and APR fuel pump,
its producing 230kw and 430 nm
with full exhaust 240kw ( 322 hp)
and with 104 octane race fuel 260 kw (350 hp)
the 5 door Pirelli weighs in at a shade over 1380kg, DSG included.

so on paper its a quick car.

[kryten2001]

How come the 355 mm brembos dont fit dammit, is it just the 18s are too small? I had my heart set on the white 355mm brembo cal

Apparently there's not enough clearance.

No matter, 328's will be more than sufficient.

The AUD is killing us.. everything is currently being requoted....

[bazzle]

I know you prob wont need this info but R32 rotors are 334mm.

or these http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3419408

Bazzle

[Zebby]

[QUOTE=kryten2001;275593]Yeah you just turn the car on with the cruise control turned on, and hold down the set button until you get program 1 (tuned) or program 2 (stock). Then release the set button, and you're away.


Hi,

are you sure this is the procedure. I have APR Stage 1 program, car bought with it already, and was told it was the other way around. Hold cruise control set button until EPC blinks once per second, stock, and then after five seconds it starts blinking twice per second which is the APR Stage 1 program turned on. Yours seems to be the other way around :?:?:

[Maverick]

Hi,

are you sure this is the procedure. I have APR Stage 1 program, car bought with it already, and was told it was the other way around. Hold cruise control set button until EPC blinks once per second, stock, and then after five seconds it starts blinking twice per second which is the APR Stage 1 program turned on. Yours seems to be the other way around :?:?:

The first program is also the one that the car defaults to if the battery is disconnected and should be stock although you can put the maps on there in any order if you want.

[kryten2001]

[QUOTE=kryten2001;275593]Yeah you just turn the car on with the cruise control turned on, and hold down the set button until you get program 1 (tuned) or program 2 (stock). Then release the set button, and you're away.


Hi,

are you sure this is the procedure. I have APR Stage 1 program, car bought with it already, and was told it was the other way around. Hold cruise control set button until EPC blinks once per second, stock, and then after five seconds it starts blinking twice per second which is the APR Stage 1 program turned on. Yours seems to be the other way around :?:?:

Nar, not on mine... Dunno?...

The 'default' map as the other posted said, is the one it defaults to.. Mine's been set to default to APR.

No matter, I've not even tried it... Seems rather pointless to change maps.. Kinda like not using the Turbo button on an IBM XT....

Now I'm showing my age...

[geoff_gti]

Kinda like not using the Turbo button on an IBM XT....


HAHAHA that's funny!! Gosh, that is a while ago...I think my first computer in highschool had one of those :frown:

[gareth_oau]

Kryten, sounds like a beast, and I look forward to seeing it sometime.

With Regard to the brembos, two things: gotta get red calipers, or maybe yellow?

also, have you thought about buying themoverseas, then getting them fitted locally. you will still take a hit on the exchange rate, but at least your not paying local dealer margins (at least the AUD has been steadily gaining over the last week)

[kryten2001]

Kryten, sounds like a beast, and I look forward to seeing it sometime.

With Regard to the brembos, two things: gotta get red calipers, or maybe yellow?

also, have you thought about buying themoverseas, then getting them fitted locally. you will still take a hit on the exchange rate, but at least your not paying local dealer margins (at least the AUD has been steadily gaining over the last week)

Yeah mate I'm going for red calipers, and slotted 328mm discs. No need for that ricerboy drilled look, slots are tops...

I'd considered it, I did the maths and it'll save me about a grand. I don't mind putting a bit of green in the hands of the local dealers though, it's worth it for the backup support and long term relationship. Plus if they supply, they're the ones holding the risk of the parts being incorrect/lost in shipment etc etc.

I should find out this week sometime how much it's all going to cost. Because the total of all the upgrades is pushing north of $13,000 I'm hoping to get a bit of a package deal sorted out with the guys - plus try and organise so it's all done on a single day.

The original original idea was to get a cheap second car as a runabout... Maybe a second hand corolla or something... Sh*t now it's 58k for the pirelli and another 13k for mods...... Kinda blew the budget there.

Oh well, it's a better stimulus package compared to anything kevin07 is handing out eh.

[kryten2001]

HAHAHA that's funny!! Gosh, that is a while ago...I think my first computer in highschool had one of those :frown:

Not mine.. We had 2 computers in highschool, a BBC acorn and a System 2000... Go on, wiki it....

The BBC was more popular, coz it had 'lemonade stand' on it.

Kids these days never had it so easy. The only technology we were allowed in the classroom was the old FX-82.....

But I digress....

[Guy_H]

hey Kryten - Glad that Pirelli's going well!

The brake clearance misses out by about 1.9mm - you could clear it with a 5mm spacer, but the legalities involved with that probably are not worth the hassle.

The clearance is not a circumference issue, it's the inside curvature of the spokes to the outer edge of the caliper that is the issue!

Zebby, The programs can be loaded onto the ECU in any order, so you need to know that before switching programs!

[kryten2001]

hey Kryten - Glad that Pirelli's going well!

The brake clearance misses out by about 1.9mm - you could clear it with a 5mm spacer, but the legalities involved with that probably are not worth the hassle.

The clearance is not a circumference issue, it's the inside curvature of the spokes to the outer edge of the caliper that is the issue!

Zebby, The programs can be loaded onto the ECU in any order, so you need to know that before switching programs!

That's fine, I'm sure the 328's will be more than sufficient for my occasional track days, plus they're a little bit cheaper too.

This ECU thing has really peaked my interest. How is it possible to reprogram a ECU with additional functions/program slots? Did the original manufacturers of the ECU leave so much additional space for additional programs, plus the ability to program it in such a way? Seems they're just begging to be modded!....

Or perhaps it's just a feature of the ECU that allows for testing/reprogramming in the factory and during production - and they decided to leave it there.

Seems amazing the car has the ability to be programmed in such a way. A simple remap is one thing, but to be able to store multiple programs plus provide the ability to swap?

Or is the ECU just a big programmable box with loads of spare space that these guys have figured out how to utilise....

[VW Convert]

Not mine.. We had 2 computers in highschool, a BBC acorn and a System 2000... Go on, wiki it....

The BBC was more popular, coz it had 'lemonade stand' on it.

Kids these days never had it so easy. The only technology we were allowed in the classroom was the old FX-82.....

But I digress....

This car sounds like a rocket ship, congrats on the purchase and the single handed revival of the Australian economy with the planned mods! :biggrin:

As for the FX-82, in my day, the tools we had were pens, logarithm tables and our brains, not even a basic calculator! And you reckon you are showing your age!

Cheers

George

[Guy_H]

It's pretty cool technology (APR EMCS) - they do utilise spare memory around the ECU (not all in one place).

Thankfully they patented it - no one else can offer it all built into the car!

http://www.goapr.com/VW/products/directport.html

[kryten2001]

It's pretty cool technology (APR EMCS) - they do utilise spare memory around the ECU (not all in one place).

Thankfully they patented it - no one else can offer it all built into the car!

http://www.goapr.com/VW/products/directport.html

C'mon Guy, where's my price for the brakes, exhaust and fuel pump!!

I'm itching!!

[Guy_H]

Patience grasshopper :) (still waiting for the new freight prices to try to squeeze a better deal for you).

[kryten2001]

Patience grasshopper :) (still waiting for the new freight prices to try to squeeze a better deal for you).

Some people call it impatience, I prefer to call it being goal orientated :)

[gareth_oau]

The Oz $ has been steadily gaining against most foreign currencies over the last week.

Patience might even save you a few more $$$