R32 head design Mk4 - Mk5

[Sharkie]

Does anybody know if the R32s Mk4 & Mk5 share the same exhaust manifold design?

Are the outlet spacings and bolt spacings the same? IE will a turbo manifold for a MK4 fit a MK5?

[Guy_H]

The flange is the same, but the clearance to the firewall is completely different - (A MK5 has heaps more)

[Sharkie]

Thanks Guy

Do you know what the compression ratio is on the MK5 R32, and if there are any gaskets (or decompression plates) out there (for the MK5) that will lower the compression slightly.

[DUB 20V]

well this sounds good so far.:biggrin:

[Guy_H]

Sorry Sharkie - never looked that up - info should be on the web somewhere...

[Sharkie]

Off topic, but just a FYI

2004 R32 Turbo with 22psi boost runs a 11.378qtr .....

http://www.dragtimes.com/2004-Volkswagen-Golf-R32-Videos-15409.html

[Treza360]

Off topic, but just a FYI
2004 R32 Turbo with 22psi boost runs a 11.378qtr .....
http://www.dragtimes.com/2004-Volkswagen-Golf-R32-Videos-15409.html
Would be interesting to find out the full spec for that car, the American delivered R32s had a slightly different spec to our MkIVs.
I believe the MkV R32 gains the extra power gains through a different intake and a different exhaust setup. Not 100% sure though on whether the specifics though. I'd say the MkV also meets later EU emission specs as well. I believe the latest/last version of the 3.2L motor also had FSI technology. Whether those engines made it here I don't know.
Best bet for a American biassed result on this would be to contact HPA over in Canada, with your questions.
Also Miltek don't list an exhaust manifold for the MkV but they do for the MkIV. Whether they're a straight swap, the MkV manifold is better or equal or it doesn't fit at all, I don't know?
More questions than answers now, sorry. :???:
Cheers,
Trent

[Maverick]

I believe the latest/last version of the 3.2L motor also had FSI technology. Whether those engines made it here I don't know.
Best bet for a American biassed result on this would be to contact HPA over in Canada, with your questions.

The R32 engine does not have FSI, no country received a FSI engine in the R32 as it doesn't exist.

The R36 has FSI.

[Treza360]

The R32 engine does not have FSI, no country received a FSI engine in the R32 as it doesn't exist.
Did a little more reading. You are correct that the MkV R32 had no FSI in any country. This is due to longitudinal layout of the 3.2L in the R. Due to the transversal mounting in the current Passat, the 3.2L in it does have FSI. Has the same power as the R but more torque in the model here in Australia (can't be bothered looking to see how different the revs are).
Cheers,
Trent

[Maverick]

Did a little more reading. You are correct that the MkV R32 had no FSI in any country. This is due to longitudinal layout of the 3.2L in the R. Due to the transversal mounting in the current Passat, the 3.2L in it does have FSI. Has the same power as the R but more torque in the model here in Australia (can't be bothered looking to see how different the revs are).
Cheers,
Trent

That's a different engine from Audi not from VW.

[Treza360]

That's a different engine from Audi not from VW.
Most inbred confusing lineup ever. :duh:
Oh and wikipedia can get stuffed too.
Sorry for getting 3.2 times off topic.
Cheers,
Trent

[Maverick]

Most inbred confusing lineup ever. :duh:
Oh and wikipedia can get stuffed too.
Sorry for getting 3.2 times off topic.
Cheers,
Trent

Wikipedia shows this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_engines#3.2_V6_FSI_188-191kW

And it's listed as an Audi engine.

[Treza360]

Wikipedia shows this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_engines#3.2_V6_FSI_188-191kW
And it's listed as an Audi engine.
Yeah I saw that.
Problem is that the VR6 articles says that the latest 3.2 and 3.6 VR6s feature FSI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VR6#History
Passat article also says that it's a VR6 FSI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VW_Passat#Petrol_engines_3
Gogo consistency and accuracy. Let this be a lesson to all you kids out there that wikipedia is far from the be all and end all.
Looking at the article you posted and pretty much everywhere else say that yes the 3.2 FSI is from Audi.
Cheers,
Trent

[Bug_racer]

I had a mk5 2008 R32 in for service the other day and as curious as to the whole FSI thing since I saw a 3.2 Passat had an FSI sticker on it . The MK5 does have FSI ! Next time one comes into the shop I'll take a picture of it and get a picture of a mk4 :)

[Oneofthegreats]

I'm not arguing what you've seen Seb.

From what I've seen & the training manual's/data, the Mk5 R32 engine does not have the FSI setup. This is basically the same setup as a Bora 4 Motion.

The R36 does have FSI though.

The FSI setup on the 3.2 V6's was first introduced in the 3C (current version) Passat 4 motion about a year after it was released. Long before the R36!

Don't believe everything you read on Wiki(lie)pedia.

[thekraut]

And another reference to stir the pot...

From http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/vw-golf-r32.htm

Power Packed VW Golf R32 Arrives Down Under From $55k

By Motoring Channel Staff - 26/July/2006

Melbourne, Australia - Launched last week in Australia, the new Golf R32 wedges a powerful direct-injection (FSI) 3.2-litre V6 engine into the small engine bay of the Volkswagen Golf to provide a vehicle that is sure to whet the appetites of enthusiasts.

[JVLR32]

And another reference to stir the pot...

From http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/vw-golf-r32.htm

Power Packed VW Golf R32 Arrives Down Under From $55k

By Motoring Channel Staff - 26/July/2006

Melbourne, Australia - Launched last week in Australia, the new Golf R32 wedges a powerful direct-injection (FSI) 3.2-litre V6 engine into the small engine bay of the Volkswagen Golf to provide a vehicle that is sure to whet the appetites of enthusiasts.

interesting article....i still say if they took out a bit more weight these cars would be quicker again:driver:.....thn a subie and a Evo

[Maverick]

I had a mk5 2008 R32 in for service the other day and as curious as to the whole FSI thing since I saw a 3.2 Passat had an FSI sticker on it . The MK5 does have FSI ! Next time one comes into the shop I'll take a picture of it and get a picture of a mk4 :)

The 3.2 litre FSI in the Passat is a different engine to the 3.2 litre in the R32.

The 3.2 FSI has 184kw and 330nm of torque from 3168cc. Bore and Stroke are 86.0/90.9. Compression ratio is 12.0:1. Controlled by Bosch Motronic MED 9.1 (same as the 3.6).

The 3.2 has 184kw and 320nm of torque from 3189cc. Bore and Stroke are 84.0/95.9. Compression ratio is 10.85:1. Controlled by Bosch ME7.1.1.

Completely different engines, the 3.2 FSI is from Audi.

The VW 3.2 is not suitable having FSI added and no R32 comes with FSI technology.

[thekraut]

i still say if they took out a bit more weight these cars would be quicker again:driver:.....thn a subie and a Evo

Agreed. However, I tend to like how solid the cars are. The added weight is partly due to the 4motion system, however there's also the rigidity, build quality etc. which is leagues ahead of the subie/evo which is what makes them such a great daily proposition.

[Oneofthegreats]

haha.

More misinformation.

I'll clear it up now with VW info....



The R32 has...

Motronic ME7.1.1 Electronic multi-point injection system


The Passat R36 has...

Motronic MED 9.1 FSI Direct Injection system


Sorry Maverick. I'm alittle slow at the moment! haha

[Maverick]

The FSI setup on the 3.2 V6's was first introduced in the 3C (current version) Passat 4 motion about a year after it was released. Long before the R36!

I thought that the V6 FSI was launched at the same time as the new series 6 Passat? They delayed it for about a year after the launch of the Mark 5 Golf as the CEO at the time wanted to separate the launch of new models of it's two biggest selling cars (can't remember why).

[Maverick]

The Passat R36 has...

Motronic MED 9.1 FSI Direct Injection system

So does the Passat V6 FSI!

[Oneofthegreats]

When the first of the current 3C Passat's were released, I don't remember the 3.2 V6 4 motion being released at the same time.

This was also the first V6 with FSI.

& your right, the 3.2 Passat has the same Engine Management, along with nearly all the FSI's. Motronic MED's

[Maverick]

When the first of the current 3C Passat's were released, I don't remember the 3.2 V6 4 motion being released at the same time.

This was also the first V6 with FSI.

& your right, the 3.2 Passat has the same Engine Management, along with nearly all the FSI's. Motronic MED's

The 3.2 FSI FWD for Audi was released late 2004/early 2005. The quattro version was shipping in August 2005.

I found this on VW's website

https://www.volkswagen-media-services.com/medias_publish/ms/content/en/pressemitteilungen/2005/08/18/volkswagen_at_the.standard.gid-oeffentlichkeit.html (see the link at the base as this site is down at the moment)

Press conference with Dr Bernhard: 12.09.05 at 11.00, Hall 3.0

"Passat / Passat Variant 3.2 FSI V6 4MOTION: The Passat and the Passat Variant are available with a newly developed 3169 cm3 size V6 engine with petrol direct injection (FSI). It delivers 184 kW /250 PS and develops a maximum torque of 330 newton metres. Equipped as standard with dual clutch gearbox DSG and four-wheel drive (4MOTION) the top of range models come out in the fourth quarter 2005."

AND the R32

"Golf R32: The second generation of the most powerful Golf of all time is here: the new Golf R32. Again with permanent four-wheel drive but now with more performance: 184 kW / 250 PS. As in its predecessor the new Golf leader also presents its own distinct look and design. The Golf R32 has a maximum speed of 250 km/h and, as an alternative to a six speed manual gearbox, it is also available with a dual clutch gearbox (DSG). The “R32” then accelerates even faster: 6.2 seconds instead of 6.5. Today is the start of advance sales in Germany, the launch starts at the end of September."

http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache:5ANTgzuSB6sJ:www.volkswagen.com/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en2/experience/messe0/messe_rueckblick/iaa_frankfurt_2005.html+passat+iaa&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=au

[bazzle]

Hmmm... a long way from 3.2 exhaust ports :duh:

[Sharkie]

Hmmm... a long way from 3.2 exhaust ports :duh:


yeah ... lol .... interesting though, one thing that was confirmed (and I found elsewhere as well) was that the R32's compression ratio is 10.85:1 which will need to be dropped to under 9.5:1 (preferrably around 9:1) for me to proceed with my project.

Search for decompression plates currently under way ...... :)

So far I've got a Garret T3 tubo, R32 cast turbo manifold & FMIC all ready to go .... now if only I could find a suitable R32 ..... lol

[JVLR32]

Agreed. However, I tend to like how solid the cars are. The added weight is partly due to the 4motion system, however there's also the rigidity, build quality etc. which is leagues ahead of the subie/evo which is what makes them such a great daily proposition.

Thats for sure...R32 s if we remember were racing in production cars Aust. and they were winning ,knockin of the subies and Evos etc:driver:

Sorry change of subject:biggrin:

[Oneofthegreats]

The 3.2 FSI FWD for Audi was released late 2004/early 2005. The quattro version was shipping in August 2005.

Sorry Maverick.

I was only referring to when the VW model's had FSI first introduced in the V6's.

[Oneofthegreats]

So far I've got a Garret T3 tubo, R32 cast turbo manifold & FMIC all ready to go .... now if only I could find a suitable R32 ..... lol

Sound's like you've got a good plan going.

I'm sorry to say it, but a T3 will choke the hell out of a 24V VR6!

I'd be going for a GT35/40 as a minimum.

[Maverick]

Sorry Maverick.

I was only referring to when the VW model's had FSI first introduced in the V6's.

From what I posted the Series 6 Passat had the Audi V6 FSI available from launch.

[Treza360]

yeah ... lol .... interesting though, one thing that was confirmed (and I found elsewhere as well) was that the R32's compression ratio is 10.85:1 which will need to be dropped to under 9.5:1 (preferrably around 9:1) for me to proceed with my project.
Search for decompression plates currently under way ...... :)
So far I've got a Garret T3 tubo, R32 cast turbo manifold & FMIC all ready to go .... now if only I could find a suitable R32 ..... lol
Some of this I can help you with. Please find below engine information. Aussie MkIV engine is BML, MkV is BUB.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/01/MkIV-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2009/01/MkV-2.jpg