Reliability

[kil0watt]

Hi,

Looking at buying a golf gti Mk5 for the girlfriend as she loves the look at them however i'm a little concerned about reliability of their turbo motors. To anyone who owns a gti have you been getting a solid run out of them? Also to those who have chipped and have a TBE fitted to thier gti any problems there?

[h100vw]

I don't have one myself but I read plenty of forums and if there were any major problems with them I believe I'd have read about it.

Chipping doesn't appear to affect reliability of any VWs as long as you keep them serviced per the book.

Gavin

[Guest212]

the engine and car themselves are solid things.

its the little bits and pieces attached to them which cause issues.

[livingthedream]

the engine and car themselves are solid things.

its the little bits and pieces attached to them which cause issues.

Yet i would still put them above all there competitors in terms of build quality and reliability.

[Russ59]

Yet i would still put them above all there competitors in terms of build quality and reliability.

x2 on that. :)

[Mr Messy]

Hi,
Looking at buying a golf gti Mk5 for the girlfriend as she loves the look at them however i'm a little concerned about reliability of their turbo motors. To anyone who owns a gti have you been getting a solid run out of them? Also to those who have chipped and have a TBE fitted to thier gti any problems there?

Turbos are pretty reliable these days, I aouldn't worry about buying a second hand GTI. The VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat 2.0T FSI has won the independently awarded ''International Engine of the Year'' for four years straight and has gone into more than a million cars. The GTI motor is in a pretty sedate state of tune that won't really push the motor's limits.

I'd say you're safe (provided the car hasn't been driven by a 17 year old for 200,000km!)

http://www.autounleashed.com/pr-section/audi-20-tfsi-wins-%E2%80%9Cinternational-engine-of-the-year%E2%80%9D-award-for-2008.html

[kil0watt]

Yeah sounds good, sorry for the questions or if it sounded like I was bagging the gti's motor (which I wasn't) just after some opinions that's all. I've only ever brought japanese cars before. Also what's the general price for a service on a gti? Would $350 be around the mark or am I under. Cheers

[Russ59]

Yeah sounds good, sorry for the questions or if it sounded like I was bagging the gti's motor (which I wasn't) just after some opinions that's all. I've only ever brought japanese cars before. Also what's the general price for a service on a gti? Would $350 be around the mark or am I under. Cheers

I've just been quoted $250 on a TDI for an oil change and filter at my local VW dealer, so I would expect a basic oil and filter change on a GTI would be similarly priced depending on where you have it done. Can't comment on the full service pricing as yet (ie - coolant change, brake fluid etc....) but no doubt if all the other fluids are as expensive as the genuine oil (liquid gold) it would be pretty costly. That is of course if you go to a VW dealer for services.

Russ

[LiFers]

I like it how no-one posts that VW routinely fall into the very lowest echelons of the JD Power quality survey year after year after year.

VW's are not reliable or well built cars - they're fun and luxurious. If you want reliability buy a toyota or honda.

Looking at the results from 2006 onwards, VW has been improving faster than the industry average, but when you're close to the bottom of the 'offenders' list, that's not hard to do.

[KWICKS]

Nothing like a bit of empirical data to even out the ledger, especially on a board such as this where you'd expect the noise to be typically in favour of personal purchasing decisions.

[Maverick]

I like it how no-one posts that VW routinely fall into the very lowest echelons of the JD Power quality survey year after year after year.

VW's are not reliable or well built cars - they're fun and luxurious. If you want reliability buy a toyota or honda.

Looking at the results from 2006 onwards, VW has been improving faster than the industry average, but when you're close to the bottom of the 'offenders' list, that's not hard to do.

And how many features do the VW's have compared to the Toyota?

Of course if you have more features you're going to have more "problems"

And let's not forget that a lot of the "problems" with the VW are actually caused by users who don't understand the car, can't work out how to turn settings on or off and can't be bothered reading the manual.

The cars are reliable and well built, they can have some niggly little problems but they are unlikely to leave you stranded. The problem with the JD power surveys is that they don't differentiate between minor cosmetic issues and major issues like broken down at the side of the road.

The expectations of someone buying a VW are going to be way above those of someone buying a Hyundai so of course they are going to take the car back for a rattle whereas the Hyundai driver won't care.

[zz2]

unless you buy my old mk5 lemon GTI then you shouldnt have too many troubles

[Golf Houso]

I like it how no-one posts that VW routinely fall into the very lowest echelons of the JD Power quality survey year after year after year.

VW's are not reliable or well built cars - they're fun and luxurious. If you want reliability buy a toyota or honda.

Looking at the results from 2006 onwards, VW has been improving faster than the industry average, but when you're close to the bottom of the 'offenders' list, that's not hard to do.

That survey, like all reliability surveys are based upon consumer perceptions of the product, not an actual measure of reliability. For example is a Toyota or Hyundai any more reliably than a VW, not likely, is it cheaper to repair, most definately. You will often see premium brands such as Mercedes near the bottom of these lists as often customers are deterred by the higher than average repair costs and the often disgruntled customers who pay 80+k for a car and maintain the unrealistic expectation that nothing will ever go wrong during their period of ownership.

"Reliability" is just an intangible opinion of quality...

[Transporter]

I like it how no-one posts that VW routinely fall into the very lowest echelons of the JD Power quality survey year after year after year.

VW's are not reliable or well built cars - they're fun and luxurious. If you want reliability buy a toyota or honda.

Looking at the results from 2006 onwards, VW has been improving faster than the industry average, but when you're close to the bottom of the 'offenders' list, that's not hard to do.

I don't agree with you.
These surveys don't prove to me that car at the top is more reliable than car at the lowest position. If you include bicycle in that, it would be the most reliable and at the top position.
I rather have a small faults than my engine fallen out of the car or something like that.
You can also check how many recalls have Japanese cars compared to VW.
I think that some Japanese car have more recalls than VW.
Like Maverick said when the car has more features and when it is more sophisticated you can expect to have some minor issues and unfortunately they go onto “the reliability” contest.
Also when people buy cheaper car like Hyundai they don’t go to the dealer to fix every rattle or squeak from the dashboard (it is made with the squeaks and rattles and therefore nothing to complain about) but when they buy the car, that cost 2x or 3x more they want to have everything repaired.

[Russ59]

Isn't that particular survey sponsored by Toyota :nana: :wasntme:

[Guest212]

While i wouldn't consider VW one of the more reliable brands around at this point in time I reckon they will get there with it and be near the top in the near future.

They've set themselves the goal of being the european Toyota and so far, everything they've done in the past 8 years has been furthering their development towards this goal. They're now making relatively cheap cars which appeal to everyone and are a whole level up in terms of refinement and build, not to mention the VW badge has a history and story behind it which gives the car a certain character - even if its a boring turd.

I don't think they will quite be able to do it though. Not in Australia at least.

[Maverick]

While i wouldn't consider VW one of the more reliable brands around at this point in time I reckon they will get there with it and be near the top in the near future.

They already are there if you take into account the extra features that they have and exclude these from the survey. And remove the people who can't figure out how to drive and operate them and whom would be better suited to driving an appliance that just has an on and off button.


They've set themselves the goal of being the european Toyota and so far, everything they've done in the past 8 years has been furthering their development towards this goal.

VW have never said that they want to be that, they plan to be the worlds number 1 car manufacturer and they are well on the way.


They're now making relatively cheap cars which appeal to everyone and are a whole level up in terms of refinement and build,

They're making cars that cover all requirements and cover them well, the Tiguan has knocked the Rav4 off the podium as the top selling SUV in the EU.


not to mention the VW badge has a history and story behind it which gives the car a certain character - even if its a boring turd.

As opposed to what a Corolla or Getz? If you find the Golf a boring turd I'd hate to think what you consider the Corolla or Getz as :duh:


I don't think they will quite be able to do it though. Not in Australia at least.

Why would they want to be known as a company that builds ultra reliable boring cars with not many features :duh:

[gregozedobe]

And yet Skoda (with the same mechanicals as VWs) usually finish much higher up the list in the J D Power surveys than VW and Audi, weird ?

[Transporter]

And yet Skoda (with the same mechanicals as VWs) usually finish much higher up the list in the J D Power surveys than VW and Audi, weird ?

Not to me.
Quality control depends on people who work in the factory and their motivation to make sure that car which leaves the factory is as faultless as possible.
Now where is Skoda made? (it should be Czech republic at least for now)
Where are VW cars made? I mean the majority of them since they would be mainly cars responsible for VW bad ranking in that JD Power survey.
People in South Africa wouldn’t have the same skills as people in Czech republic (trust me on that one), and German made Golf R32 or any model which is still made in Germany would be build by mostly what ever migrants are working in the factory. That explains VW worst ranking than Skoda in that survey.

[anarchycamp]

I've had my MkV GTI since the day they were released in 2005....it has APR tune and has done 102,000 kms in that time. This car has proven so far to be way more reliable than other cars I have had.

[LiFers]

And how many features do the VW's have compared to the Toyota?

How many features do VW have compared to Lexus and Porsche? They routinely top the quality surveys and Lexus has many more toys than VW.

As for "problems" from users expecting a car to function other than it does, ie BMW i-Drive or M-drive, that's part of the flaw in a car. Why does VW build a car that requires someone reads a 500 page manual to operate it and consumers think it doesn't work properly, when Lexus can build an LS luxury sedan, with as many features as a Merc E/S class, and people don't need to read the manual?

As for "VW only has little niggles", are we forgetting the number of posts of "My car went into limp home mode?" I've read plenty of posts here about the DSG causing upteen problems, Turbos failing, Superchargers failing.....

What is most interesting is that rather than accept fact, compared to industry average VW is unreliable, they feel so passionate about their cars they fly in the face of real world proof.

DESPITE VW's reliability record, I will be buying a VW, cause I'm looking for an exciting hot hatch, but I buy it with the correct knowledge, not some stupid fantasy "fans" cultivate that everything is perfect.

[Maverick]

How many features do VW have compared to Lexus and Porsche? They routinely top the quality surveys and Lexus has many more toys than VW.

Porsche don't have a lot of the features that VW have and Lexus spend a lot of time with the customer when they purchase. Lexus make a fortune on each car and offer a lot of backup support for the users.


As for "problems" from users expecting a car to function other than it does, ie BMW i-Drive or M-drive, that's part of the flaw in a car.

Not really it's part of the flaw in the people that buy them.


As for "VW only has little niggles", are we forgetting the number of posts of "My car went into limp home mode?" I've read plenty of posts here about the DSG causing upteen problems, Turbos failing, Superchargers failing.....

There's not that many that it occurs to, sure they have problems but most of them are very minor.


What is most interesting is that rather than accept fact, compared to industry average VW is unreliable, they feel so passionate about their cars they fly in the face of real world proof.

The real world proof is that I've had less problems with VW in my first 8 months of ownership then I've had with Subaru and Ford. And the real world "proof" is that minor niggles count against VW, the surveys are pointless because they are often because of owners who can't read and would be better off with a corolla.


DESPITE VW's reliability record, I will be buying a VW, cause I'm looking for an exciting hot hatch, but I buy it with the correct knowledge, not some stupid fantasy "fans" cultivate that everything is perfect.

I don't see any fanbois here waving the flag denying problems but realistically the VW is very reliable, the reasons have been given for the poor survey results and I don't see any problem with regarding VW as one of the better built, better performing and better reliability cars.

[GTom]

What is most interesting is that rather than accept fact, compared to industry average VW is unreliable, they feel so passionate about their cars they fly in the face of real world proof.


Unfortunately statistics can be spun every which way a company wants.

Comparing Toyota to VW is kind of like comparing apples and oranges, both have varying business models in Australia... Toyota, take the corolla, it's made with the basic bare minimums, basically what a persons basic needs, Whereas VW puts your basic needs in + more.

Besides driving a corolla is so damn bland, the engine is like its having an asthma attack from the get go, the gearing is ridiculous! and the interior is worst then a taxis!

[Golf Houso]

Besides driving a corolla is so damn bland, the engine is like its having an asthma attack from the get go, the gearing is ridiculous! and the interior is worst then a taxis!

Quite right, I almost cried when I was in my mate's 2005 corolla which rather than having proper headliner had a single formed piece of cardboard which wasn't even smooth but was textured and you could even see the fibers throughout it :duh::duh::duh:

[Transporter]

How many features do VW have compared to Lexus and Porsche? They routinely top the quality surveys and Lexus has many more toys than VW.

As for "problems" from users expecting a car to function other than it does, ie BMW i-Drive or M-drive, that's part of the flaw in a car. Why does VW build a car that requires someone reads a 500 page manual to operate it and consumers think it doesn't work properly, when Lexus can build an LS luxury sedan, with as many features as a Merc E/S class, and people don't need to read the manual?

As for "VW only has little niggles", are we forgetting the number of posts of "My car went into limp home mode?" I've read plenty of posts here about the DSG causing upteen problems, Turbos failing, Superchargers failing.....

What is most interesting is that rather than accept fact, compared to industry average VW is unreliable, they feel so passionate about their cars they fly in the face of real world proof.

DESPITE VW's reliability record, I will be buying a VW, cause I'm looking for an exciting hot hatch, but I buy it with the correct knowledge, not some stupid fantasy "fans" cultivate that everything is perfect.

It is very interesting.
Did you experienced all the above faults or you just heard about them? :duh:
I wouldn't post something like that it would be spreading the hearsay. :)

[Greg Roles]

And yet Skoda (with the same mechanicals as VWs) usually finish much higher up the list in the J D Power surveys than VW and Audi, weird ?

Much smaller data set to be honest Greggo. I see very few on the roads, yet VW's of all manner are everywhere these days. Much more likely a VW will be brought in for a problem. Or does the survey take into account overall numbers vs returns?

I've no doubt a current VW, like any other machine can break down, but as someone who is currently pulling his new car apart and drilling holes in it, I'd have to say it's a lot better built mechanically than anything "Australian" or Jap I've similarily tinkered with. Personally I'm impressed with the engineering, and won't be going "back" anytime soon!

[gregozedobe]

Much smaller data set to be honest Greggo. I see very few on the roads, yet VW's of all manner are everywhere these days.

I was referring to the European J D Power surveys, where there are a LOT of Skodas on the road (I agree too few in Oz so far for anything meaningful).

[Russ59]

I've just been quoted $250 on a TDI for an oil change and filter at my local VW dealer


Oil and filter changed and only charged $179, thought it sounded a little expensive at $250 :eek:

Russ

[Greg Roles]

...especially since you can buy oil AND filter direct from VW at about $90, and even then the oil is a bit pricey...

[Maverick]

Oil and filter changed and only charged $179, thought it sounded a little expensive at $250 :eek:

Russ

I paid Highway Auto around $150 for oil (vw 504.00/507.00 castrol), filter, disposal etc which was a price I was happy with considering the oil is ~$80.

[Russ59]

...especially since you can buy oil AND filter direct from VW at about $90, and even then the oil is a bit pricey...

I just bought oil and a filter for the son's '07 Comfortline TDI that we've just purchased and it cost me $136 inc GST. from the only VW dealer in the area, and they're located in Wollongong, 80 k's away from me .

I thought that was bad enough, I don't understand why the oil and filter is so much cheaper in Qld though ?? Are you sure they're not substituting coconut oil in it to reduce costs ?? :nana: :biggrin:

[Greg Roles]

Perhaps Russ it's because I bought up last Feb, so mabey it's gone up. I paid $73.86 for each 5L 507 Castrol Edge oil and $17.04 for the genuine filters. Plus GST is bang on $100 a change.

$36 extra is a bit steep. I'm getting my 30k service next week, so I'll price them again. Perhaps you just look "rich"? What's a 30k service worth and what do they do??

[Golf Houso]

... and $17.04 for the genuine filters...

Thats very close to the cost for an oil filter for a MK3 2.0L which recently was $15.82 at McGrath Liverpool. To make you feel better an oil filter for a MK3 VR6 is $58 throughout any VW parts center :duh:

[Russ59]

Perhaps Russ it's because I bought up last Feb, so mabey it's gone up. I paid $73.86 for each 5L 507 Castrol Edge oil and $17.04 for the genuine filters. Plus GST is bang on $100 a change.

$36 extra is a bit steep. I'm getting my 30k service next week, so I'll price them again. Perhaps you just look "rich"? What's a 30k service worth and what do they do??

Yeah Greg, they probably have gone up in price, what hasn't :frown: I don't think I would come off as looking rich, I only ever rock up in casual gear and runners, no suit and tie, and I only wear el cheapo sunnies as well not the yuppy style. Not sure exactly what a 30000 k service is worth but I think I read somewhere that it's about $350 (not 100 % sure though) but if that's the case they can't be doing a great deal extra, maybe brake fluid and coolant as well as oil and the filter ??

Russ

[Russ59]

To make you feel better an oil filter for a MK3 VR6 is $58 throughout any VW parts center :duh:

They must be 18 ct gold plated at that price :eek:

That was the one good part about servicing the Falcons, you could buy your filters, oil and just about anything you needed for servicing from the likes of Super Cheap, Auto Barn etc.... and you didn't have to leave an arm or a leg as a deposit :duh: :biggrin:

Russ

[PassatB6]

Here is a link to a site which is not about people's unreliable reports about their cars (such as in JD Power) but actual failure statistics. Toyota and VW are about the same.

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=3128339010848601&country=usa&searchtype=relindex#

[anthony]

My first VW,A 1988 JETTA in South Africa,served me first,and then my Father,and did over 300000 trouble free kilometers,us both saying it was the best car we have ever owned.
I then had a Jetta 3 for under 2 years in the USA,and did 61000 kilometers-no problems at all.
I then had a Jetta 3 in South Africa,did 107000 kilometers in it,and NO PROBLEMS at all,once again.
I have owned a Ford and Holden product in between,but now own a 2007 MY Jetta,done 37000 kilometers,and besides a few rattles and squeeks,no mechanical faults.
I beleive VW quality,and reliability to be way above average.
In the family have also had Mercedes,BMW,Toyota Mazda,and Honda products.
The Corollas have also been superb.

[gregozedobe]

Here is a link to a site which is not about people's unreliable reports about their cars (such as in JD Power) but actual failure statistics. Toyota and VW are about the same.

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=3128339010848601&country=usa&searchtype=relindex#

Thanks for that link. Interesting the difference between the US and UK figures for VW and Toyota (different basis and different rankings). Note that VW didn't sell many TDIs in the US in recent years (for various reasons). Skoda did well in the UK (but not as well as Suzuki, Honda and Mazda).

Pity we can't get unbiased figures on how different brands fare in Oz (and we all know why that is, don't we ;) )

[Guest212]

They already are there if you take into account the extra features that they have and exclude these from the survey. And remove the people who can't figure out how to drive and operate them and whom would be better suited to driving an appliance that just has an on and off button.
Which people? You mean the majority of this country? Who's brains don't work in a way which allows them to work effectively with certain computer interfaces which require a good short term memory due to the complexity/depth of the menu designs? Arugement fail. Just because you find something easy to understand and use doesn't mean the rest of the world is stupider because they can't. Note: i find the VW's MFD menu system in the golf, and even on the radio pretty easy to follow but thats because I can get my head around that stuff but I work with enough normal every day to people to make a judgement that the majority of the people in australia financially capable of purchasing a vehicle are rarely computer savvy enough to go further than Start>Programs>Microsoft Word - so what chance do they have of operating a non-GUI interface? Even smart businessmen with enough money to buy 911 GT2s as daily drivers can struggle with a computer interface which doesn't have big pretty friendly buttons next to the various options.


VW have never said that they want to be that, they plan to be the worlds number 1 car manufacturer and they are well on the way.
So, they want to be number one. Which means they want to be the Toyota of europe. Seeing as they can't be the Toyota of Japan I figure they can't be the Toyota of Australia or america or brazil or poland.


They're making cars that cover all requirements and cover them well, the Tiguan has knocked the Rav4 off the podium as the top selling SUV in the EU.ok



As opposed to what a Corolla or Getz? If you find the Golf a boring turd I'd hate to think what you consider the Corolla or Getz as :duh:
You musn't have spoken english as your first language because you have trouble understanding my poorley structured sentences which noone else I've ever spoken to has had trouble understanding. VW has "badge history" read: there is history behind the badge. This enables them to put their badge on just about anything and it will sell because of it. Toyota have a similar story, except their badge history is one of reliability, build quality and high resale value. We all know that its not really the case anymore but you can't tell a 'yota owner this :)


Why would they want to be known as a company that builds ultra reliable boring cars with not many features :duh: where'd I say this was the case?

Maverick = brand fanboy.

Well, either that or MASSIVE denial that he LOATHES his vehicle.

Alternatively the VW is actually is dad's car (edit: ok ok now i'm stirring :D :p)

[Maverick]

Maverick = brand fanboy.

Well, either that or MASSIVE denial that he LOATHES his vehicle.

I'm not a brand fanboy, the golf is an awesome car for the money and the build quality is second to none. It's the first car that I've owned that I'm almost 100% happy with thanks to the features, quality of build and so forth.


You mean the majority of this country? Who's brains don't work in a way which allows them to work effectively with certain computer interfaces which require a good short term memory due to the complexity/depth of the menu designs? Arugement fail.

There's nothing complex about the menu designs, if they can't figure out how to navigate the MFD then they have no right to be driving on the road. There's a manual in the glovebox to assist them and they can drop back to their dealer if required.


So, they want to be number one. Which means they want to be the Toyota of europe. Seeing as they can't be the Toyota of Japan I figure they can't be the Toyota of Australia or america or brazil or poland.

Why do they want to be the Toyota of Europe? This makes no sense at all, they have ambitions to be the number 1 car company by volume.


You musn't have spoken english as your first language because you have trouble understanding my poorley structured sentences which noone else I've ever spoken to has had trouble understanding. VW has "badge history" read: there is history behind the badge. This enables them to put their badge on just about anything and it will sell because of it.

Perhaps they've been too nice to tell you that you make no sense when you talk. People don't buy a VW because of the badge, they might buy a BMW or Mercedes for that reason. I purchased a VW because the car suited my requires.


Toyota have a similar story, except their badge history is one of reliability, build quality and high resale value. We all know that its not really the case anymore but you can't tell a 'yota owner this

The Corolla leads it's class in reliability and resale. People buy Toyota for this reason and they will continue to do so.


where'd I say this was the case?

The part where you said "VW want to become the Toyota of ... "

[Transporter]

Come on people Golf and even Touareg is easy to drive you don't need 500 pages manual, my 20 and 22 years old daughters have no problem to drive them and so far they didn't have to use the owner's manual.
The MFD is intuitive to use and I think it is easier to use than microwave.