Extra key (and remote) with the correct immobiliser

[gregozedobe]

Well, I finally have a working extra spare key (with working remote).

It has been quite a saga, so I thought that some of you might wish to benefit from my "experiences". I haven't described the components of keys (and their functions) in great detail, as this has ben covered in other threads in the VWWC forum.

I prefer to have 2 spare keys for any car I have, so after I got my RS I started looking for an extra spare and remote. If you happen to end up with no keys your car will be dead in the water, as no one, not even the dealer, can get you going again until you get some replacement keys from overseas. It is literally a tow-away job, and breaking windows if you absolutely must get something out of the car ! This is good security as long as you are aware of the ramifications.

I had already been through the hoops getting working spare keys for my Transporter, so I knew that the cheaper options (ie buying from anywhere except the dealer) is a bit of a challenge, and so it turned out :(

Firstly I sourced keys and remotes from two different (cheap) suppliers on fleaBay. They were able to give me "Skoda" keys and the correct remotes, but the key halves had the wrong transponders for a 2008 build Octy RS.

I had the blank blades cut at a local locksmith (one with a computer cutting machine). That was fine.

So then I looked around a bit more. As always, getting the correct transponder (immobiliser chip or RFID - small, like a glass grain of rice that lives in the key half, not the remote half) is the difficult problem to solve.

I found some transponders that were the correct model, but it seems that Skoda (like VW) is now "pre-progamming" these transponders so that they will only work for a specific Make AND model, and once they have been adapted to a specific car they cannot be used for any other car.

So far, none of my transponders (fleaBay or aftermarket) would work on my Octy.

Next was a UK supplier who believed he could get a lock set (which included 3 locks and two keys) to suit my Octy for GBP 120.00 (not too expensive, as the $AU was flying high at the time). Alas, the transponders in these didn't work either (I suspect they would be OK on an earlier build Octy II).

By now I was getting fed up with buying stuff from overseas that didn't work, so it was time for the option of last resort - buy one from my local Skoda dealer.

I only purchased the "key" half, as by now I had plenty of extra remote halves (and I had two of them coded to my car and working at this stage). This key took several weeks to arrive, as they have to come from overseas (the blade comes pre-cut to fit your locks) The RRP for this half is around $222.00, and I had to pay another $60 for key coding (VCDS can do this if you have your 4 digit PIN or SKC, otherwise it is a dealer only job).

Remember to have ALL your keys with you for coding, any left behind will no longer work - your car will start OK, then the engine will cut out after 1-2 seconds with the immobiliser symbol flashing.

So, after all this, my advice is:

1 Don't lose your keys, they are precious and difficult to replace.

2 If you want a spare, buy the key half from your local dealer, and buy the remote half from fleaBay (or me, I have 2 "spare" spares).

3 If you think you may end up locking your keys in your car (very easy to do), it is fairly cheap to get a "dead" (ie no transponder) key, and hide it somewhere on your car's exterior (please, be creative about your hiding spot, otherwise you may find your insurer asking awkward questions). This will allow you to get into your car, but it can't be driven away with this dead key.


If anyone has questions or comments, feel free to do so.

Hope you all have a great 2009.

[woofy]

My brain got tired, but in the end did you spend well over $500 getting that spare key?

I find with hatchbacks it very hard to lock keys in the car as usually nothing is locked unless you do it with the key in your hand, compared to sedan boots, although if you just unlock the Skodas boot and then shut it, it locks itself.

I'm amazed how many 2-3yr old cars get sold or traded in, and only have one set of keys. Having said that we sold one car with only one set, as my stupid brother in law left our car with a flat battery on the way somewhere, and then lost the keys were he ended up. No he has never been lent a car since from us.

[gregozedobe]

My brain got tired, but in the end did you spend well over $500 getting that spare key?


Yes, but knowing what I now know I could get one a bit cheaper, as I wouldn't spend any money getting things that didn't work. Also I now have 3 extra spare remote halves to suit my wagon, and a whole lot of key blade half spares, and lots of transponders that are no use to me at all ;)

If I was repeating the exercise now, I would buy the following :

$ 100 (maybe less) new 3 button remote half from fleabay, probably from a UK seller.
Make sure you get the same part number and frequency as the existing ones.

$ 222 Key blade half from a Skoda dealer

$ 60 Key coding by a Skoda dealer (or free if you have VCDS/Vag-Com)

Total $382.00 (less if you can find a s/hand remote cheaper and have VCDS).

I'm not sure how much the dealer would charge you for a complete key, last time I asked about a VW one it was around $500 plus coding.

I work on the theory that if I have a spare I won't need it, and that general philosophy works OK for me.

[woofy]

Hmm I can see how they make money, people used to complain on the Mazda forums about replacement 3/6 flip keys costing $200 all up.

Our old 2002 323 which had separate keys with the immobiliser chip inside the plastic end and a separate keyring remote was $120 for complete replacement, less if only one bit was lost/broken.

There is no way that the Skoda/VW keys have anything more expensive or tricky in them, and previously cars used to have instructions in the manuals describing how to program the remotes by pressing certain buttons inside in the car in a certain order without the need to get your dealer to do it. Our old 95 Falcon Futura even did. Hmm very good way or VAG to make things more expensive/tricky for no real reason except to make more $$

[Transporter]

I agree these keys can cost fortune and are hard to get.
My next VW will be ordered with 3 keys.
Our Treg came with one key remote not working from day one, it had water damage and it took more than 2 weeks for replacement to come from OS. However we got plastic key with it, which can be used to open the car when swimming at the beach.

[KWICKS]

If anyone has questions or comments, feel free to do so.OR NOT, AS THE MODS SEE FIT!:wasntme:

[blutopless2]

the only time i have had to replace a remote was for our nbc. after years of use the hoop at the bottom that you use to attach to a keyring broke off. went to vw dealer that i bought the car from and took our second remote with me. got a new remote (no you cant just fix the damn hoop thing can you) and had it and secondary one programmed for total of $100... told them i was not going to pay for programming as it was a 1 minute job.

[mikinoz]

OR NOT, AS THE MODS SEE FIT!:wasntme:

I think that your point regarding saving money was fine, however no need to make any personally degrading comments, however innocent or humorous you think they are.

[KWICKS]

I think that your point regarding saving money was fine, however no need to make any personally degrading comments, however honest or truthful you think they are.Fixed for you.

[mikinoz]

Fixed for you.

I think we leave it alone from here on in. Thanks.

[gregozedobe]

There is no way that the Skoda/VW keys have anything more expensive or tricky in them, and previously cars used to have instructions in the manuals describing how to program the remotes by pressing certain buttons inside in the car in a certain order without the need to get your dealer to do it. Our old 95 Falcon Futura even did. Hmm very good way or VAG to make things more expensive/tricky for no real reason except to make more $$

We can program our cars ourselves to accept new remotes without any special tools (it is described in the owner's manual).

New remotes and key blades are readily available from non-VAG sources for sort-of-reasonable prices (I got a complete, working spare key for my VW for under $100, which is why I tried to do the same for my Octy).

The real tricky thing is getting the correct transponder (immobiliser chip or RFID) for the latest model cars. Skoda (and I would guess all the VAG brands) are continually improving the security on these, and the fact that it locks you into them as the sole supplier (at whatever cost they want to charge) would be seen by Skoda as just a pleasant side-effect. I have bought ID48 transponders for only $6.00 each, but cannot program them correctly.

I guess it is a pain when you are trying to buy a new key, but the rest of the time it makes your car very hard to steal. I believe they are near impossible to drive away without the right key, and that is generally a good thing. :)

[brad]

OR NOT, AS THE MODS SEE FIT!:wasntme:


Fixed for you.

Wrong forum / wrong mods / wrong car brand Mister. Bored?:moonie:


Back on topic.

A replacement "key" for swmbos Outlander is ~$1000 according to her fleet manager (somebody else in her company lost one). That's the full keyless entry & start unit (great stuff it is too - not a gimick)

I'm at a bit of a loss how you lock the keys in the car though.:frown:

[gregozedobe]

I'm at a bit of a loss how you lock the keys in the car though.:frown:

Yeah, in theory you could only lock your keys in the boot if you had the car locked, unlocked the boot, put the keys down in the boot while you got something out of the boot, then shut the boot lid. The car will then lock the boot voila, keys locked in car !

In practice there must be another way of doing it, as an awful lot of people seem to manage it somehow (not via the boot). I gather Skodas aren't that hard to get into, or maybe in these circumstances they are only locked rather than deadlocked, as the motoring assist people in the UK seem to be able to help out.

I have programmed myself and my Missus to physically check we have possession of the remote before we shut the last door or hatch. With our previous cars all we had to do was make sure we locked the car with a key or remote, but these "self-locking" ones are slightly more demanding.

I also have a back-up plan, but cannot reveal that on a public forum (think plain "dead" key).

[wombatoutofhell]

I read a long term test online where the tester unlocked the car and opened the passengers door to put something in and threw the keys onto the drivers seat. The car locked-I think it's because it does that if the drivers door hasn't been opened withing 30 seconds or something?

[ron3kl]

I'm not sure how much the dealer would charge you for a complete key, last time I asked about a VW one it was around $500 plus coding.


As gregozedobe already knows, I bought my RS from the same salesman as him and when taking delivery of the car it went like this:

"Ron, do you want a second key for your car?" 8)


"Um, yes...." :confused:

"Well that'll be an extra $500!" :evil:


stunned silence :eek:

"No, No, just kidding Ron! You get two keys!" :grin:


"And how much is a spare key actually then?" :?:

"They really are $500, so look after them Ron. You don't want to lose one." :(


Funny guy, but I think that even the Skoda sales staff were aghast at the cost.

[gregozedobe]

"They really are $500, so look after them Ron. You don't want to lose one."

At least you do know they are very expensive and difficult to replace quickly, and so can make sure you look after them carefully.

I feel for any poor sod who loses or damages the only one they have because they thought they were only $50 or $100 to replace and you could get one without any drama at any locksmith or dealer. Imagine their shock when they find out the truth (and then get told they can't drive their car until the new key arrives from overseas ! ).

[Zombie]

I just phoned the local dealer who advised it was $440 for key and remote for my T5.

..around $200 for key alone without programming.

It's totally out of control... :bowdown:

[wfdTamar]

Well, I've just bought a brand new complete uncut Skoda key off ebay UK for $95 so it'll be interesting to see if it works after I get it cut and code it with the VCDS. At worst it'll allow me to get into the car if I lock the one key I have inside.

[redline3345]

So, after all this, my advice is:

1 Don't lose your keys, they are precious and difficult to replace.

2 If you want a spare, buy the key half from your local dealer, and buy the remote half from fleaBay (or me, I have 2 "spare" spares).

3 If you think you may end up locking your keys in your car (very easy to do), it is fairly cheap to get a "dead" (ie no transponder) key, and hide it somewhere on your car's exterior (please, be creative about your hiding spot, otherwise you may find your insurer asking awkward questions). This will allow you to get into your car, but it can't be driven away with this dead key.

.

Can you explain what you mean by the "key half" and the "remote half"?
My keys only have the battery compartment lid come off, and don't appear to disassemble any further than that.

[gregozedobe]

Can you explain what you mean by the "key half" and the "remote half"?
My keys only have the battery compartment lid come off, and don't appear to disassemble any further than that.

Hmmm, sounds like Skoda has followed VW's recent lead and changed the Key fob so it is a one-piece unit. So now you can't buy a separate remote half for these newer ones.

The older versions of fobs were a two piece unit. with one half being the remote (locking and unlocking doors only), with the key (blade) and rfid (immobiliser) chip for the ignition switch being the other half (they literally separated into two pieces, each about the same size as each other).

This will probably mean Skoda is the only practical supplier for key fobs (as the correct rfid chips seem to be very difficult/near impossible to source - I never did find any that would work for my Octy, and they seemed to tighhten these security thing up as newer models come out).

So my previous advice is more relevant then ever - look after your Skoda keys, they are expensive and difficult to replace.

[wfdTamar]

Bargain - the complete new key I got off ebay worked.

$95 key
$40 cutting blade
$50-60 coding at Skoda (not sure exactly because it was done with some other things).

$185-195 Total

ebay seller was tmc_car_keys

Item title
NEW SKODA REMOTE KEY 1K0959753G OCTAVIA, ROOMSTER (that part number matched my existing key)

My car is a 2008 Octavia Elegance 4x4. This has the version 4 immobiliser which needs to be done by Skoda (can't be done with VCDS as you can't get the codes you need )

Also getting a non electronic key for $40 from the locksmith.

[gregozedobe]

^ Good result indeed :)



This has the version 4 immobiliser which needs to be done by Skoda (can't be done with VCDS as you can't get the codes you need )

I had an idea that VCDS could code keys IF you had the code from the plastic tag that comes with the keys on a new car (or you can also get the code/s using some of the more specialised/powerful diagnostic software that can interrogate the ECU eg VAG Commander or somesuch ?)

[wfdTamar]

I didn't have the tag from the keys (but I think you need more than just that).

VCDS needs a PIN which (I gather) comes live from Skoda to the VAGCOM once the dealer put in your car details. You also need the workshop and dealer codes (which they ain't giving to us) and the date the PIN was received.


From Ross-Tech support email:

'..provided you can get the PIN code for the Immobilizer, VCDS should be able to do key adaptation:

Immobilizer IV Key Matching - Ross-Tech Wiki (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_IV_Key_Matching)

VCDS does not retrieve PIN information and can not do key adaptation without the PIN.'


Explained better here:
Immobilizer - Ross-Tech Wiki (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer#Immobilizer_Generation_4)

[tones]

Sorry guys, I know this is an old thread, but I thought it was appropriate to continue this discussion rather than starting a new thread.

I have a 2010 Octavia RS, and have had difficulty trying to source a replacement spare key (other than going to the dealer). I got quoted $425 for a key by a dealer ($260 for the key, $77 to cut the key, and $88 to code it).

Haven't been able to find a suitable part on eBay, but I did find an online seller based in China who does sell my key. The seller is called Apollo Auto (link here (https://www.apollo-auto.com/products-categorized-by-make/skoda/skoda-fabia-comfort-3-button-remote-key-3t0-837-202-8c-chip)). The key would cost ~$95 shipped, and I could just get it cut locally, and then pay the dealer to code it. All up I would be saving at least $200.

Has anyone dealt with Apollo Auto before? Should I be wary of buying from them?