Remapping - MK4 R32

[thekraut]

I've done it :)

Gotta say this: While it won't make the car 1 second faster 0-100kmh, and won't give an extra 50kw, it DOES bring the power of the MK4 R32 close enough to the MK5 R32. Drove a MK5 R32 yesterday prior to the remap and today, once done, mine feels just like it. Highly recommended!

Speak to Gavin (forum member) - h100vw - and he'll be able to arrange to get your MK4 R32 to where it should be as a starting point in power/torque terms!

For technical info visit http://www.custom-code.co.uk.

[Treza360]

Good to hear one's been done now. I asked Gavin about it a while back out of interest and I'm still weighing up the options available to me.
Have you got a figure for the power increase for the Aussie ones now and also do you have any dyno charts?
I know the APR gives an extra 12kW so I'm interested to know how the custom code compares?
I would've thought that the upgrade would've made it more powerful than the MkV as there's only 7kW between them anyway.

[thekraut]

Nah no solid figures as yet - only had it done today so no time to DYNO. But, can definitely feel the difference.

[Treza360]

Nah no solid figures as yet - only had it done today so no time to DYNO. But, can definitely feel the difference.
Good stuff. Are you planning on getting it dyno'd? I'd imagine Gavin would be keen for you to have it done as well so he can use it for sales material.

[thekraut]

Yeah hopefully if its not too hot on Friday I'll see about getting it in somewhere.

[JVLR32]

Yeah this sounds goodly!...I have the APR as well...Does anybody know wat time period do you need to re-tune these chips?:driver:

[thekraut]

I got my ECU flashed rather than chipping so no need for retuning.

[fuzion]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/12/IMG_2616-1.jpg

giac chip/cam/head/exhaust ... this thing screams!

can be heard from this vid infront of flaps in his k04 polo
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=3oMBoLMrfoQ

gotta love the growl!

[dubbed]

That R is absolutely beautiful.

[h100vw]

That's a pretty tidy R32. Sounds good too. :)

Have you seen this one that JBS built? http://www.vimeo.com/1913349 This goes hard.

Gavin

[Treza360]

That's a pretty tidy R32. Sounds good too. :)
Have you seen this one that JBS built? http://www.vimeo.com/1913349 This goes hard.
Gavin
Hey Gavin,
Do you know if the OP has had his car dynoed yet and what type of results it came back with? If so are you able to post the run?
Cheers,
Trent

[h100vw]

I don't Trent. I spoke to him the other night but he never mentioned it. I might recommend he waits until the weather cools down, probably won't pull the skin off a rice pudding at 44 Degrees, if my Ibiza is anything to go by. ;)

I'll ask him now.

Gavin

[thekraut]

Hey guys, haven't had the chance to get it into the rollers yet, and won't be doing it for some time - ie. until the weather cools down! When we get down to around 25-30 during the day, I'll see what I can do ;)

[Treza360]

Thanks guys. Let me/us know how it goes. Hopefully I will be going down one of the chip paths before the end of the financial year. :)
Cheers,
Trent

[JVLR32]

:driver:i want more out of my chip....is there a different process or just a mapping tune

Thanks JVL

[h100vw]

:driver:i want more out of my chip....is there a different process or just a mapping tune

Thanks JVL

Ben had a Phase 1 Custom-Code map loaded to his ECU.

http://custom-code.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=314&Itemid=80

If that doesn't answer your question, please ask again.

Gavin

[Treza360]

Ben had a Phase 1 Custom-Code map loaded to his ECU.
http://custom-code.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=314&Itemid=80
If that doesn't answer your question, please ask again.
Gavin
Still interested to know how they can get nearly an extra 32kW in the Phase 2 package as that's an incredible gain in power for an NA engine. Does it require race fuel or something?
Also how much tuning is able to be done to get the most benefit out of things such as CAIs, cams, exhausts and exhaust headers?
Cheers,
Trent

[h100vw]

Still interested to know how they can get nearly an extra 32kW in the Phase 2 package as that's an incredible gain in power for an NA engine. Does it require race fuel or something?
Also how much tuning is able to be done to get the most benefit out of things such as CAIs, cams, exhausts and exhaust headers?
Cheers,
Trent

I'll be honest Trent, I don't know what mods that gain is based on. I would imagine that you have to have all the hardware you have mentioned and it would be running on 98 RON.

In theory a well tuned up modern engine, shouldn't have that much difficulty making 100hp a litre. E36 M3s are nearly there standard, I know they rev a bit harder but I don't think it's inconceivable.

Gavin

Have mailed C-C about this.

[Bug_racer]

I don't Trent. I spoke to him the other night but he never mentioned it. I might recommend he waits until the weather cools down, probably won't pull the skin off a rice pudding at 44 Degrees, if my Ibiza is anything to go by. ;)

I'll ask him now.

Gavin

After all the figures and formulae I posted up it dissapoints me that you as a tuner still dont understand about correction factors and dynos . A car should be able to be dynoed at any time , any temperature at any altitude and still have readings within 1% of each other . That is what correction factors are for .



:driver:i want more out of my chip....is there a different process or just a mapping tune

Thanks JVL

You'll need race fuel and a re-tune


I'll be honest Trent, I don't know what mods that gain is based on. I would imagine that you have to have all the hardware you have mentioned and it would be running on 98 RON.

In theory a well tuned up modern engine, shouldn't have that much difficulty making 100hp a litre. E36 M3s are nearly there standard, I know they rev a bit harder but I don't think it's inconceivable.

Gavin

Have mailed C-C about this.

You cant compare an M3 engine to the VR6 engine

R32 head does not flow

The piston speed on the R32 is greater than the M3

Bore × stroke

M3 91.0mm (3.58 in) 87.0mm (3.43 in)

R32 85.5 mm × 92.8 mm

Not to mention the head probably flows a lot more , M3 has better exhaust manifold and you paid some $50k more for the m3 !

[JVLR32]

very interesting thanks Gavin:driver:

[JVLR32]

After all the figures and formulae I posted up it dissapoints me that you as a tuner still dont understand about correction factors and dynos . A car should be able to be dynoed at any time , any temperature at any altitude and still have readings within 1% of each other . That is what correction factors are for .




You'll need race fuel and a re-tune



You cant compare an M3 engine to the VR6 engine

R32 head does not flow

The piston speed on the R32 is greater than the M3

Bore × stroke

M3 91.0mm (3.58 in) 87.0mm (3.43 in)

R32 85.5 mm × 92.8 mm

Not to mention the head probably flows a lot more , M3 has better exhaust manifold and you paid some $50k more for the m3 !thanks seb...Iam on 98 anyways...will just a retune make that much difference?:driver:

[Oneofthegreats]

You cant compare an M3 engine to the VR6 engine

R32 head does not flow

The piston speed on the R32 is greater than the M3

Bore × stroke

M3 91.0mm (3.58 in) 87.0mm (3.43 in)

R32 85.5 mm × 92.8 mm

Not to mention the head probably flows a lot more , M3 has better exhaust manifold and you paid some $50k more for the m3 !

Exactly!

The VW VR6 cyl. head is one is the worse design's in history along with the 16V head.

If 100hp per litre is easy, every engine out there would have it.

The internal's in a M3 engine (even the E36!) is beyond what you would call normal. The E36 had a 2 section cyl. head design & was the first engine developed with infinately variable cam timing in the intake only for the 3L & then intake & exhaust on the 3.2L

The E46 cyl. head is fully CNC ported with razor sharp port divider's & very high flow properties, ultra light weight bottom end rotating & cam gear like rocker's etc. to allow it to rev.

That & along with 6 individual throttle body's perfectly sized & matched to the power requirement's, then add in infinately variable cam timing & state of he art engine management system's & it doesn't sound so easy anymore.

I know the old Lotus cortina's & such made the same 100hp per litre, but how reliable were these car's & how many have you all seen still going extremely strong after 250+K?

[JVLR32]

Exactly!

The VW VR6 cyl. head is one is the worse design's in history along with the 16V head.

If 100hp per litre is easy, every engine out there would have it.

The internal's in a M3 engine (even the E36!) is beyond what you would call normal. The E36 had a 2 stage cyl. hea design & was the first engine developed with infinately variable cam timing in the intake only for the 3L & then intake & exhaust on the 3.2L

The E46 cyl. head is fully CNC ported with razor sharp port divider's & very high flow properties, ultra light weight bottom end rotating & cam gear like rocker's etc. to allow it to rev.

That & along with 6 individual throttle body's perfectly sized & matched to the power requirement's, then add in infinately variable cam timing, it doesn't sound so easy anymore.

I know the old Lotus cortina's & such made the same 100hp per litre, but how reliable were these car's & how many have you all seen still going extremely strong after 250+K?

interesting you blokes say the r32 head doesnt flow..iam not saying it does, lots of blokes said to me a Rs Liberty head was also a **** head that doesnt flow iva.A Bloke name Roy Goodman Engines got a rs liberty head to flow 350hps and all the lib blokes said bull****....(This was my engine)

I no its not a R32 head but are we looking in the right spots to be able to flow these heads proper? ......The right cams etc got to make a difference

[Oneofthegreats]

interesting you blokes say the r32 head doesnt flow..iam not saying it does, lots of blokes said to me a Rs Liberty head was also a **** head that doesnt flow iva.A Bloke name Roy Goodman Engines got a rs liberty head to flow 350hps and all the lib blokes said bull****....(This was my engine)

I no its not a R32 head but are we looking in the right spots to be able to flow these heads proper? ......The right cams etc got to make a difference

It will flow, but not in the right area's.

Well if with technology you should see progress but as an eg.

With the right guy on the job you can get a ton more out of a dirty old early cast iron holden 2V 6cyl head with less port sizing & less overall valve sizing of a VR6 24V!

Both the VR6 12V & 24V is more ideal for forced induction than NA hand's down. some Cyl. head design's & firing order's cater for it alot better.

Eg. A VR6 is just like a early Holden V8. They both like FI but they both perform a ton better with turbo's than superchargers

Just out of interest. What is the valve sizing of both the 12V & 24V VR6?

[Guy_H]

Yeah this sounds goodly!...I have the APR as well...Does anybody know wat time period do you need to re-tune these chips?:driver:


If you already have APR - the 104 race gas program is probably already installed - and it will take ~ 15 seconds to switch from Stock or 98 ron programs to the race gas program.

Difference? yes - quite big - one of our hard track junkie customers here in QLD is more than 1.5 seconds a lap quicker at QR on race gas. You just have to justify the cost of the fuel!

If you have your original APR handbook, the program order & how to switch is listed inside - if you don't have this, you need to visit your APR dealer.

[JVLR32]

If you already have APR - the 104 race gas program is probably already installed - and it will take ~ 15 seconds to switch from Stock or 98 ron programs to the race gas program.

Difference? yes - quite big - one of our hard track junkie customers here in QLD is more than 1.5 seconds a lap quicker at QR on race gas. You just have to justify the cost of the fuel!

If you have your original APR handbook, the program order & how to switch is listed inside - if you don't have this, you need to visit your APR dealer.ohw ok yes i have the handbook...thanks guy h:driver:

[Guy_H]

ohw ok yes i have the handbook...thanks guy h:driver:

Cool - don't forget to use Elf WRF or Martini 102 fuel - I think you will like the difference :)

[JVLR32]

Cool - don't forget to use Elf WRF or Martini 102 fuel - I think you will like the difference :)is there anymore that i can do the chip for tuning away from the fuel sticking with 98 octane?:driver:

[Guy_H]

No, she's pretty much maxed out safely there - add a couple of turbo's - that would help!

[Treza360]

No, she's pretty much maxed out safely there - add a couple of turbo's - that would help!
Or supercharger (I know a lot of people don't like it but...) :)
Guy, with the APR chip are you able to retune it for cams and forced induction setups etc?
Or is basically having to go some kind of Motec, Haltech piggy back or other replacement ecu the best option here?
Thought I'd ask these kind of questions now whilst the topic comes up.
Cheers,
Trent

[JVLR32]

Or supercharger (I know a lot of people don't like it but...) :)
Guy, with the APR chip are you able to retune it for cams and forced induction setups etc?
Or is basically having to go some kind of Motec, Haltech piggy back or other replacement ecu the best option here?
Thought I'd ask these kind of questions now whilst the topic comes up.
Cheers,
Trentgood questions mmmm yeh would we get more out of a piggy back setup?:driver:

[Treza360]

good questions mmmm yeh would we get more out of a piggy back setup?:driver:
Stock for stock maybe a little but nothing to justify the extra cost of purchasing the ECU, getting it fitted and tuned etc. But with the type of mods I listed?
Cheers,
Trent

[JVLR32]

Is there a advanced throttle body kit for a R:driver:

[Guy_H]

It could be retuned, but we would need a good case of how many & the same mods.

A piggy back would probably be going backwards, I have seen many "piggy back" systems fail to make the same horsepower on ME7 cars, and struggle to run nicely at all (only the couple I have seen). Full stand alone would probably be the go if you went for radical mods!

[JVLR32]

Question...throttle body,manifold worth it all not?:driver:

[Treza360]

It could be retuned, but we would need a good case of how many & the same mods.
A piggy back would probably be going backwards, I have seen many "piggy back" systems fail to make the same horsepower on ME7 cars, and struggle to run nicely at all (only the couple I have seen). Full stand alone would probably be the go if you went for radical mods!
So basically as a one off thing, no unless one was willing to shell out the big bucks for the time and effort?

[Guy_H]

So basically as a one off thing, no unless one was willing to shell out the big bucks for the time and effort?

Correct - Time tuning costs dollars, so one off mods = uneconomical.

If we have a case for it here in Australia - Like Left foot braking modification - APR did that specifically for the Australian clients that take their MKIV R32's on the track - with the 80 + R32's we have done, we convinced them it was a worthwhile exercise :)

[Bug_racer]

So basically as a one off thing, no unless one was willing to shell out the big bucks for the time and effort?

Your not going to get much more power unless you do hardware changes then change software to suit . You need to get more air into the combustion chamber to gain more power , its as easy as that , fueling can be changed a lot more simply by raising fuel pressure or putting in bigger injectors (once you get close to 100% duty cylce)

I'll disagree with Guy on the stand alone statement . The factory ECU is more powerful than the stand alone units available at the moment , in the mk4 r32 anyway . I would only go stand alone over factory ecu for a purpose built race car , even if its registered and driven on the street .

[JVLR32]

Interesting.....$s for bigger injectors?
$ for throttle boddies?

[Treza360]

Your not going to get much more power unless you do hardware changes then change software to suit . You need to get more air into the combustion chamber to gain more power , its as easy as that , fueling can be changed a lot more simply by raising fuel pressure or putting in bigger injectors (once you get close to 100% duty cylce)
I'll disagree with Guy on the stand alone statement . The factory ECU is more powerful than the stand alone units available at the moment , in the mk4 r32 anyway . I would only go stand alone over factory ecu for a purpose built race car , even if its registered and driven on the street .
Yeah my thoughts for the distant future include things such as VF Stage II supercharger and cams. Haven't fully investigated it yet as that's something for later but if will of course be looking to see if things such as bigger injectors a DSG MAF etc would add to this as well.
I figure now is as good time as ever to start asking questions as of course the software is going to be needed. :)
Time and dollars... That's all I need... :biggrin:
Cheers,
Trent

[JVLR32]

Treza...iam right behind you on that quote....But i will stay with N/a for a while which i believe theres more in these motors to experiment with.

Race fuel
throttle body
?? Ecu
Breathing
Injectors

:driver:

[thekraut]

Just an FYI with this one that I cant see has been mentioned. Remap got rid of the flat spot around 3000rpm and also ups the rev limit :)

[Mr. JLT]

I have the Giac X program in my R along with a Cai and custom 3" exhaust and light weight pullies and i have been pretty happy with the set up so far. But i am looking forward to the new software soon.(unitronic)
http://www.unitronic.ca/videos.php?id=3N7EH7QFlNU

[h100vw]

How are you getting the Unitronic installed Mr.JLT? Have they agents over here or will you ship the ECU to them?

Cheers

Gavin

[Mr. JLT]

How are you getting the Unitronic installed Mr.JLT? Have they agents over here or will you ship the ECU to them?

Cheers

Gavin
I got another Ecu for my R32 loaded with Uni software for when i start the turbo build. It was in the states already just had to get it shipped here with some other turbo bits

[h100vw]

Nice one, hope you've considered the immobiliser too.

Gavin

[JVLR32]

All sounds good.....is anyone using ECUs like EMS etc?:driver:

[Mr. JLT]

Nice one, hope you've considered the immobiliser too.

Gavin
Yea it was removed along with cats and 2nd o2 sensor and Sai.:)