a GTI owner review of the new WRX

[WhiteRabbit]

So, after getting called twice a week, every week, since the new more powerful WRX hit the dealers to come to test drive it, I gave up and yesterday afternoon went form my first drive of a WRX model

I had high expectations, this is a 195KW car, with 4wd and has been more refined to beat the GTI. I was excited.

As I got into the dealership, there was a Black, WRX Sedan, with all options installed.

First of all was my dissapointment with the black leather sport seats, no Recaros to be found here, and the leather was very vinyl like with red WRX on it. the seating position as close to the floor as possible. the seating adjustments were all manual with a near copy of the Golf system but with cheaper plastic.

the boot was large enough, the baby seat anchors are in a nice setup behind the rear head rests (I walked away from the hatch WRX test due to the anchors setup on that, seriously), the rear seats are a bit crammed and soft in GTI standard, and very low to floor level leaving you kissing your knees.

There is a cheap plastic feel inside, GPS system inside was impressive though. the aircon controls feel like a plastic toy from the dollar shop, and that goes the same for the steering wheel controls.

I was dissapointed with the boot design of the sedan in pictures, and it doesn't get any better in real life.

So then how does it drive. Well after 8,500 kms with a DSG, I didn't think I'd forgotten driving a manual, but I found the clutch "depressing", very long reach in it, and there is a sudden engagement half way through. Coming of the line was nice with the 4wd, but once you got going I really missed my GTI.

I just don't get the turbo only coming in at 4000rpm, there is this massive lack of torque up to this moment, and once you get a taste of it you are ready for a gear change. there is no throttle response. I have no doubt it was fast, telling by the silly watch face size speedometer. But there was just no feel of accelerating response to the throttle. So we got out of traffic to some hill roads with tight hairpins. Didn't get any better, I tried keeping the rev up on the corner, but the traction control would kick in and cause the torque to vanish into under steer, turn that off, and only gets a bit better. there is just a fine line of useable revs, and a whole lot of nothing up to that, and a gear change after that. and what happened to the boxer engine exhaust note???

in conclusion, I was dissapointed, and even the dealer was understanding, and had no arguments, as she worked for VW and used to sell GTIs.

Getting back in my baby, was heaven all over again, gear to S, foot down, and instant explosion of G's.

[The_Hawk]

Nice write up, although I have one question...

I know it might be an obvious question, but is your GTI modified?

[nismo23]

Good write up first of all...Poor rex
I used to think the model before the this was unattractive because of the Daiwoo grill but since the new model came out I like it now compared to this thing and yeah the sedan looks even worse to me.SIGH...
Worst of all is the loss of the trademark burble the boxer used to have now vanquished due to the variable timing the engine now has.

Anyway, have a look at this link just to get in the mood again....some pretty skillful driving I think.

http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader.swf?vendor_id=204&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0

[WhiteRabbit]

Nice write up, although I have one question...

I know it might be an obvious question, but is your GTI modified?

Hi Aaron, You've seen my GTI on the Kiama cruise, not modified at all. Super Stock.

[WhiteRabbit]

The Dealer called me this afternoon to invite me for an STI drive and apologiesed for the WRX, she reckons the STI will be different all over. and she wants me to try the Liberty GTB STI.

We'll see how that goes, but that's alot more money now.

[WhiteRabbit]

Good write up first of all...Poor rex
I used to think the model before the this was unattractive because of the Daiwoo grill but since the new model came out I like it now compared to this thing and yeah the sedan looks even worse to me.SIGH...
Worst of all is the loss of the trademark burble the boxer used to have now vanquished due to the variable timing the engine now has.

Anyway, have a look at this link just to get in the mood again....some pretty skillful driving I think.

http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader.swf?vendor_id=204&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0

WOW, that's amazing driving, Can't do that with FWD.

and Yah mate, the rear of the new rex is sooo Korean, completely reminds me of Daiwoo.

But WHY, I used to love the MY99 WRX, what a cult car that was.

A mate had a Liberty GT '94, that was nice, Twin inline turbo, smaller turbo would come in @ 2200 rpm, larger @4500rpm. had lot's of problems with auto box though, and second turbo wouldn't always come in. but when it all worked, was great.

[LiFers]

Can't do that with FWD.
You'd be surprised.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kKxCT1UK_sE
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=P8g0fgzsvVE

[Transporter]

So, after getting called twice a week, every week, since the new more powerful WRX hit the dealers to come to test drive it, I gave up and yesterday afternoon went form my first drive of a WRX model

I had high expectations, this is a 195KW car, with 4wd and has been more refined to beat the GTI. I was excited.

As I got into the dealership, there was a Black, WRX Sedan, with all options installed.

First of all was my dissapointment with the black leather sport seats, no Recaros to be found here, and the leather was very vinyl like with red WRX on it. the seating position as close to the floor as possible. the seating adjustments were all manual with a near copy of the Golf system but with cheaper plastic.

the boot was large enough, the baby seat anchors are in a nice setup behind the rear head rests (I walked away from the hatch WRX test due to the anchors setup on that, seriously), the rear seats are a bit crammed and soft in GTI standard, and very low to floor level leaving you kissing your knees.

There is a cheap plastic feel inside, GPS system inside was impressive though. the aircon controls feel like a plastic toy from the dollar shop, and that goes the same for the steering wheel controls.

I was dissapointed with the boot design of the sedan in pictures, and it doesn't get any better in real life.

So then how does it drive. Well after 8,500 kms with a DSG, I didn't think I'd forgotten driving a manual, but I found the clutch "depressing", very long reach in it, and there is a sudden engagement half way through. Coming of the line was nice with the 4wd, but once you got going I really missed my GTI.

I just don't get the turbo only coming in at 4000rpm, there is this massive lack of torque up to this moment, and once you get a taste of it you are ready for a gear change. there is no throttle response. I have no doubt it was fast, telling by the silly watch face size speedometer. But there was just no feel of accelerating response to the throttle. So we got out of traffic to some hill roads with tight hairpins. Didn't get any better, I tried keeping the rev up on the corner, but the traction control would kick in and cause the torque to vanish into under steer, turn that off, and only gets a bit better. there is just a fine line of useable revs, and a whole lot of nothing up to that, and a gear change after that. and what happened to the boxer engine exhaust note???

in conclusion, I was dissapointed, and even the dealer was understanding, and had no arguments, as she worked for VW and used to sell GTIs.

Getting back in my baby, was heaven all over again, gear to S, foot down, and instant explosion of G's.

That WRX has 0-100km/h in 5.3s
Are you sure you're not a biased?
I know that the interior in Subaru's could be the off puting.
In the performance department you should find it much faster than your GTI.

[WhiteRabbit]

That WRX has 0-100km/h in 5.3s
Are you sure you're not a biased?
I know that the interior in Subaru's could be the off puting.
In the performance department you should find it much faster than your GTI.

I would be biased, "I bought" a GTI :duh:

But Really, I have no doubt that it's quicker (not top speed wise, as the WRX has a 209km/hr top speed)

It was quicker, I looked at the dial and I was clocking 140 in amazing time (the dealer didn't seem to mind) but it just didn't feel it.

The fact is there were to much wait for the power, there is just so much of the rev range that nothing happens.

Mine is not a question of numbers, but a question of feelings. the GTI just feels more exciting to drive. well done on concentrating on punchy small turbo, rather than a laggy big one.

[faisan]

Subaru's are nice but I feel they are really over-rated in terms of quality. Heaps of people say that Subarus are great quality but I find their interiors to feel cheap when compared to VW, BMW, and even Honda.

I have no doubt the WRX is a fast car and its a performance bargin but the GTI has always been the best all rounder. It does everything well.

[Transporter]

They mean the reliability,
since the quality mechanical gear is reliable one too.
Top speed is limited at 209km/h I have no doubts that speed limiter could be removed.

[WhiteRabbit]

They mean the reliability,
since the quality mechanical gear is reliable one too.
Top speed is limited at 209km/h I have no doubts that speed limiter could be removed.

Is the speed electronically limitied, or is it the limitation of the gearing setup with the 5 speed manual?

[Greg Roles]

I would be biased, "I bought" a GTI :duh:

But Really, I have no doubt that it's quicker (not top speed wise, as the WRX has a 209km/hr top speed)

It was quicker, I looked at the dial and I was clocking 140 in amazing time (the dealer didn't seem to mind) but it just didn't feel it.

The fact is there were to much wait for the power, there is just so much of the rev range that nothing happens.

Mine is not a question of numbers, but a question of feelings. the GTI just feels more exciting to drive. well done on concentrating on punchy small turbo, rather than a laggy big one.

It all comes down to the torque. The VW range, the GTI especially has a heap of down low grunt, where you spend 95% of the time on public roads, and that makes for a whole lot of fun. It's why a V8 with the same kw output as a 2.0 turbo is a lot more practical and fun to drive in traffic, the torque of the thing. Seems like the WRX is going for a KW marketing style advantage, and we all know the detriment of a big turbo, nothing down low.

Torque is what makes a car fun to drive, whereas KW wins at the dyno's, 400m and the counter racing at the pub.

VW are on the money!

[Mr Messy]

Yeah, spot on. The 2.0T is a very sweet engine, to me it responds almost as if it's naturally aspirated.

It's funny, when I swap from my '01 GTI 1.8T to the old man's '06 Jetta 2.0T it's as if the Jetta isn't turbocharged at all, the power delivery is so linear and smooth. The Mk4 on the other hand is a more traditional turbo job, it comes on later and harder (but is ultimately much slower lol).

I also agree about the soobie power delivery being a bit off. I haven't driven the '09 WRX but I have had a go in a 2.5L STI and must say they are a bit laggy (but awesome when on the boost).

The whole WRX vs GTI argument is a bit overdone isn't it? We know the WRX is quicker when driven at 10-10ths but an inferior car the rest of the time. Plus the Subaru added extras (cops, insurance, theft etc etc) are something that none of us want.

[Guest212]

Just about every other hot hatch on the road is quicker than the Golf GTI.


But I wouldn't have changed my choice at the end of the day. The Golf is the best all rounder by a long margin.

(except for the buying a 6spd MANUAL and not a DSG:duh: thing)

[Transporter]

I would be biased, "I bought" a GTI :duh:

But Really, I have no doubt that it's quicker (not top speed wise, as the WRX has a 209km/hr top speed)

It was quicker, I looked at the dial and I was clocking 140 in amazing time (the dealer didn't seem to mind) but it just didn't feel it.

The fact is there were to much wait for the power, there is just so much of the rev range that nothing happens.

Mine is not a question of numbers, but a question of feelings. the GTI just feels more exciting to drive. well done on concentrating on punchy small turbo, rather than a laggy big one.


How could there be "to much wait for the power" if the car can accelerate from 0-100km/h in 5.3s? For what power do you wait less in your GTI than in WRX?

"Nothing happen up to 4,000 rpm".

Again something must be happening, if in 5.3 second you going 100km/h.

"Punchy small turbo, rather than laggy big one"?

Bigger one in WRX felt faster you had no doubts about it why would you care then about the size of the turbocharger?

No, really you don't need 6th gear to go faster than 209km/h.

I'm not defending WRX here; just your review doesn't make any sense to me.:duh:

[Tim]

How could there be "to much wait for the power" if the car can accelerate from 0-100km/h in 5.3s? For what power do you wait less in your GTI than in WRX?

"Nothing happen up to 4,000 rpm".

Again something must be happening, if in 5.3 second you going 100km/h.

"Punchy small turbo, rather than laggy big one"?

Bigger one in WRX felt faster you had no doubts about it why would you care then about the size of the turbocharger?

No, really you don't need 6th gear to go faster than 209km/h.

I'm not defending WRX here; just your review doesn't make any sense to me.:duh:



traditionally in a WRX you need to make the gearbox explode to get the quoted 0-100 times. Theyre not that easy to launch but in their rev range theyre very quick. Its pretty simple to digest when you think about it.


GTI is nicer as a daily drive because it will pull relatively nicely from low revs.
If youre driving 10 10ths and keeping the turbo on the boil the WRX would be much quicker no doubt.

[Transporter]

traditionally in a WRX you need to make the gearbox explode to get the quoted 0-100 times. Theyre not that easy to launch but in their rev range theyre very quick. Its pretty simple to digest when you think about it.


GTI is nicer as a daily drive because it will pull relatively nicely from low revs.
If youre driving 10 10ths and keeping the turbo on the boil the WRX would be much quicker no doubt.

In your opinion.

But it would be interested to see the review of the hard-core WRX owner

after the short test drive of the GTI.

[Mr Messy]

In your opinion.


Geez, wake up on the wrong side of the bed or what?

[Tim]

i dont think what ive said above is my opinion. Id consider it fact.
If you think its not correct then feel free to disagree based on whatever experiences you have had.

WRX STI does some things extremely well. And other things poorly. The GTI jack of all trades, master of none. Im not saying one is better than the other. Just two different cars. I can appreciate them both.

Its also interesting to take note of the amount of people that have switched from subarus to VWs after the release of the MKV

[Guest212]

In your opinion.

But it would be interested to see the review of the hard-core WRX owner

after the short test drive of the GTI.

Would go something like this:

"Heavy steering, bland interior, seats my parents would like (MEGA FAIL), great initial punch but no top& end feels slow. Rubbish cornering under power and ridiculous torque steer. No rally heritage I can think of, no sick bonnet scoop or bodykit uleh. Doesn't make my bro's attract the hoe's - how can i possibly build this car TUFF to attract MUFF? Overall epic fail, FWD for teh lose."

[WhiteRabbit]

How could there be "to much wait for the power" if the car can accelerate from 0-100km/h in 5.3s? For what power do you wait less in your GTI than in WRX?

"Nothing happen up to 4,000 rpm".

Again something must be happening, if in 5.3 second you going 100km/h.

"Punchy small turbo, rather than laggy big one"?

Bigger one in WRX felt faster you had no doubts about it why would you care then about the size of the turbocharger?

No, really you don't need 6th gear to go faster than 209km/h.

I'm not defending WRX here; just your review doesn't make any sense to me.:duh:

AM I IN SUBARU DOWNUNDER FORUM BY MISTAKE :brutal:

Can I remind you of this video
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=MzB6C1MquLI

I know The new WRX is 195kw and stiffer than the one in the video which only has 169kw. but this was not a DSG GTI, which is faster.

Look in the end of the day, this is how the car felt for me. I don't like Holdens with V8s cause they are too big, some people like that. Some like R32s for their linear delivery, some like S3s for their turbo kick, some like 4wd some like RWD, etc, etc. For me I like a car to respond with full torque when I put my foot down, not one I'd have to put through a propsal and have to wait until 4000rpm came around

[jb747]

I've driven a number of Subaru products over the years, and come close to buying a couple of times. I'd have to agree that I've always felt that their interiors look and feel cheap...mind you, that's a trait shared by many other car companies too.

I don't like the amount of lag that is evident in the WRX. I know it gets up and goes really hard, but the empty bottom end destroys the whole feel as far as I am concerned. And I suspect that those really fast acceleration times aren't all that realistic. What do you need? 5000 rpm and sidestep the clutch; I guess that would work a couple of times.

But, I'm not a GTI owner either. I do like the GTI a lot, and if I hadn't listened to my wife, then I would own one. But she didn't like the power delivery in the GTI, so we went with an R32.

It's all horses for courses. We buy whatever we like, and it would be a bloody boring world if we all liked the same things.

[Transporter]

i dont think what ive said above is my opinion. Id consider it fact.
If you think its not correct then feel free to disagree based on whatever experiences you have had.

WRX STI does some things extremely well. And other things poorly. The GTI jack of all trades, master of none. Im not saying one is better than the other. Just two different cars. I can appreciate them both.

Its also interesting to take note of the amount of people that have switched from subarus to VWs after the release of the MKV

I'm one of people who switched from subaru to VW and I'm extremely happy with VW. I get impression from this review that somebody is making very cheap shot and mocking up the performance car with very good sporting results. I would definitely show some respect to WRX and write it a bit differently. I'm sorry but I can't applaud to such review.

[Transporter]

Geez, wake up on the wrong side of the bed or what?

Geez, good one.:)
The review just didn't feel right.:driver: :)

[Blitzen]

I sence a Polo GTI thread comming on!!!:nana:

[Sharkie]

I don't own either of the 2 but have also driven both now ........

and the WRX is actually painful to drive ..... its quality of plastics reminds you of a daewoo ..... and the lag is terrible.

For a WRX to get close to the posted performance figures you have to launch it really hard. Too few revs and it bogs down upon takeoff and then even a modded Polo has it for lunch.

Too much revs upon launch and you crack the glass gearbox ..... (well after a few ultra hard launches anyway).

Having just the right amount and getting through the sometimes notchy gearbox smoothly will reward you with an excellent time .... very similar to the posted figures.

I having driven a few WRX's over the years and never bought one. Why .... too much plastic and too peaky power delivery. A Golf GTI is a much better buy. Just need to be chipped to be competitive.

[nismo23]

Hmmm, maybe I should post the link to this thread in suby forum land...Should be worth a laugh:moonie:

[Tim]

Hmmm, maybe I should post the link to this thread in suby forum land...Should be worth a laugh:moonie:

They have forums for subaru owners?! When did they learn to read?! :D

[BuellFool]

"I having driven a few WRX's over the years and never bought one. Why .... too much plastic and too peaky power delivery. A Golf GTI is a much better buy. Just need to be chipped to be competitive."

Hmmmm. What happens if the WRX is chipped? I have owned a MY04 WRX which was chipped and it would spit my MKIV R32 out it's tailpile like the R32 was in reverse. It's easy to chip a WRX so that the midrange is fat.

Can't argue about the plastic.

What is the cost of a WRX v GTI?

[WhiteRabbit]

What is the cost of a WRX v GTI?

They are the same price for the manual, DSG is more, but worth every dollar.

The GTI comes with better standard bits I think

[WhiteRabbit]

Hmmm, maybe I should post the link to this thread in suby forum land...Should be worth a laugh:moonie:

Who Dares Wins
www.wrx.com.au/forum/

[WhiteRabbit]

Here is a video I found in the WRX forum, it has the MY09 WRX placed well behind the GTI
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9iTxa6F0AXo
This is assumes that Americans appreciate proper sport cars

[Transporter]

Here is a video I found in the WRX forum, it has the MY09 WRX placed well behind the GTI
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9iTxa6F0AXo
This is assumes that Americans appreciate proper sport cars

WhiteRabbit,
Please spare me from youtube videos.
The proper sport car is in WRC - it has the Subaru badge and Skoda is left there to compete against the rest, why the GTI doesn't join the forces? Let me think: To save themselves from embarrassment - sorry if that sounds to harsh I didn't find fast enough better words.

[nismo23]

Who Dares Wins
www.wrx.com.au/forum/

So immature WR..really:wasntme:

[Tim]

hahaha
word gets around!
http://www.wrx.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=54098

was that you wr?

No bites yet though :(

[Blitzen]

Why did you do the comparison on the new WRX? Why not do it on the Hyundai Elantra?? I mean, both the new Elantra and the new WRX look the same, share the same plastics, were made in the same factory, share the same vomit inducing looks, and were both no doubt designed by Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and a group of caged Rhesus Monkeys kept in a dark room.
I saw the new Impreza sedan on Friday, and laughed so hard I had tears running down my face. The Financial Crisis has nothing to do with Subaru's sales losses, its to do with the fact they are so friggen ugly that people are just down right embarrassed to drive them.
Yes, the VW Golf may not be in the WRC, and thank God for that, because the WRX's looks would not only put the VW drivers off the job at hand, and the WRX is such a Black Hole of ugliness, that the Golf GTI would be sucked into it, never to be seen again.
Even if the new WRX handled like a go cart on Speed, and accelerated like a Veyron, I would much rather sit at home and listen to Casey Chambers and pull out my finger nails with my Leatherman than buy one.

[Transporter]

Why did you do the comparison on the new WRX? Why not do it on the Hyundai Elantra?? I mean, both the new Elantra and the new WRX look the same, share the same plastics, were made in the same factory, share the same vomit inducing looks, and were both no doubt designed by Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and a group of caged Rhesus Monkeys kept in a dark room.
I saw the new Impreza sedan on Friday, and laughed so hard I had tears running down my face. The Financial Crisis has nothing to do with Subaru's sales losses, its to do with the fact they are so friggen ugly that people are just down right embarrassed to drive them.
Yes, the VW Golf may not be in the WRC, and thank God for that, because the WRX's looks would not only put the VW drivers off the job at hand, and the WRX is such a Black Hole of ugliness, that the Golf GTI would be sucked into it, never to be seen again.
Even if the new WRX handled like a go cart on Speed, and accelerated like a Veyron, I would much rather sit at home and listen to Casey Chambers and pull out my finger nails with my Leatherman than buy one.

That is far better review than the original one:):):) and I agree with you, I rely mean it. Credit to you that you don't try to make GTI look faster than WRX.
One thing is the look and other is the performance and you cannot judge the performance from the first drive with the sales person on the board with you. After all if you're not able to get the goods out of the engine's performance it is not the cars fault. You are not the racing car driver (just trying to be one).
Subarus never looked good. Technically they are very advanced but there is also a lot of room for improvement. The power at all wheels and low center of gravity, symmetrical drive system. All aluminum engine from 1970's.
Yes they are ugly but not made at the same factory as Hyundai.
I'm a bloke so when buying the car I don't care much about the looks.
People who buy today’s Subaru Impreza and WRX have high level of self confidence and don't care how the look of the car reflect on them.
And I have respect for that.
When I first took a good look at the GolfV my first reaction was oh my God this is the Holden Barina on the steroids. And we bought one but not for the appearance. IMO it wouldn’t win the beauty contest as well.

Cheers, mate

[Blitzen]

I'm a bloke so when buying the car I don't care much about the looks.
People who buy today’s Subaru Impreza and WRX have high level of self confidence and don't care how the look of the car reflect on them.
And I have respect for that.
When I first took a good look at the GolfV my first reaction was oh my God this is the Holden Barina on the steroids. And we bought one but not for the appearance. IMO it wouldn’t win the beauty contest as well.


I know what you are saying here, and I really respect it. I tend to go for the looks and driving fun(the whole package). I had a 2004 Barina SRi before my Polo GTI. I loved the Barina, and I miss it as it was a very fun car to drive, and really stuck it to other cars in the windy stuff(I know I am going to cop alot of stick for this, like I did in the 4 years I owned it!!), yes it was a Hair Dressers car, but my God it was fun to drive.
Before I bought the Polo, I serioustly looked at a MY06 WRX, but the pricing and insurance kept me away(I think Subaru hit the nail on the head with this design before decending into Meth inspired car design). I looked at several cars, and settled on the Polo, and I will never regret this.
I really think that Subaru have lost alot of loyal buyers and followers that they will never get back. Technology has gone forward on the new car, but it has followed the AU Falcon down the road od buyer disillusionment.
PS...I know about the factories, but I was on a roll!!

[WhiteRabbit]

hahaha
word gets around!
http://www.wrx.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=54098

was that you wr?

No bites yet though :(

I Swear it was not me who posted it on the WRX forum. (Nothing wrong in bringing it to their attention)

Seriously, my review meant no disrespect to the car, but it was an honest (naturally biased, as I've already spent my 42K worth).

I really wanted to like the WRX, I loved the MY99 early model, and I had high expectation of this one, I was prepared to get over the interior design, which I expected to be compensated by the perfromance. But it just didn't push my buttons (personaly) while I expect it to do so for others.

Full respect to the heritage of this car in the WRC, the cult it's created, and the upgrade potential it has.

I think it's great to see some Humour being used in this forum, in the end of the day this is a VW Enthusiasts forum, and it's good to have differing points of view around the subject.

[GTI_racer]

The proper sport car is in WRC - it has the Subaru badge and Skoda is left there to compete against the rest

Oops...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/feedarticle/8163572

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hSzZ2CXFoE24Z0A_mQnnZzHLgqEQ

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/world_rally/7785299.stm

Looks like there's no more Subaru in WRC

[Transporter]

Oops...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/feedarticle/8163572

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hSzZ2CXFoE24Z0A_mQnnZzHLgqEQ

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/world_rally/7785299.stm

Looks like there's no more Subaru in WRC


But they had their good time in WRC and some successful years too, didn't they.:)

[Transporter]

I know what you are saying here, and I really respect it. I tend to go for the looks and driving fun(the whole package). I had a 2004 Barina SRi before my Polo GTI. I loved the Barina, and I miss it as it was a very fun car to drive, and really stuck it to other cars in the windy stuff(I know I am going to cop alot of stick for this, like I did in the 4 years I owned it!!), yes it was a Hair Dressers car, but my God it was fun to drive.
Before I bought the Polo, I serioustly looked at a MY06 WRX, but the pricing and insurance kept me away(I think Subaru hit the nail on the head with this design before decending into Meth inspired car design). I looked at several cars, and settled on the Polo, and I will never regret this.
I really think that Subaru have lost alot of loyal buyers and followers that they will never get back. Technology has gone forward on the new car, but it has followed the AU Falcon down the road od buyer disillusionment.
PS...I know about the factories, but I was on a roll!!

No hard feelings from my side mate I agree with you Subaru lost it's sparks and completely lost it in the body design area. They lost many customers that’s including me. I agree with you that VW is much more civilized and better overall car. I wouldn't otherwise buy 3 of them.
To your previous car Barina I have only one thing to say; in the hands of capable driver even less capable car can perform well, if the driver is not good it doesn't matter what car he drives. :)

[Mr Messy]

Good stuff.
As for the Barina SRi - didn't that one win Wheels COTY and Motor BFYB?

[Greg Roles]

Perhaps the old 80's Buck Rogers show has recently hit Japan?

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/12/twiki_wallpaper1024-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/12/wrxrear-1.jpg

[WhiteRabbit]

Here is an update from the WRX Forum:

Some were understanding / Supporting:
"I didnt think it was particularly biased. Yes he compared it to the GTI, but I got the impression he wanted to like the WRX and was looking forward to driving it. Thought his post was relatively articulate compared to some of the drivel that people write in car forums. And I thought a lot of the points he made were pretty valid."

"Having owned both a WRX and GTI - both have their good points. GTIs do handle well when on the move and nothing beats the sheer blast you get from the AWD launch of a Rex, especially on a wet day. Standard equipment (stereo and asthetics of interior on the VW) and layout and looks **** on Subaru (my MY05 for example sat about 3 inches too high stock). "

"I'd sum it up by saying the VW is very capable but the WRX is 'edgier' (well the MY05 was). "

"I'd agree with pretty much everything the guy writes. but for me it all comes down to numbers: $$, 0-100 and servicing. Sure the GTI is a good all rounder, perhaps too good at everything except excitment and DSG???? give me a manual shifter anyday. Nice ladies car" !!!(Ladies Car)

"Ive said it once I'll say it again. Subaru have never made a car that appeals to the general public in the past, and now that they have made a attempt to do so, there going to loose all the people that have had them in the past.

"I don't think till now there has been people who have bought a WRX on looks alone."

"I tend to agree, to me that seemed like a pretty fair appraisal. Pity some of our Rex guys can't take even an ounce of criticism, even when it appears to be fair. "



Some Were less impressed:

"I have looked at that forum before. I love VW's, but some posters there remind me of the poor guys that used to sit up the front of class whilst the rest of us fired spitballs/peashoots into the back of their heads."

"Those guys are utter feucktards! "

"Motor's test of the GTI vs. MY08 revealed even ol' Betty was a better driver's car."

"back when I bought my WRX I looked at the GTI, I think it is a really nice car. I didnt find the seats comfortable and the ride was a bit ."

"Kinda funny really ... I didn't buy the MY05 for its looks, I bought it for the bang-for-your-buck hoonage.

Anyway, I think that the current Golf looks pretty ordinary as well."

I Think my Explosion of G's broke the back of my Review (Passion of the moment I guess, I don't generaly get anymore than 1 G in accelration):

"His summation was probably fine until the "G" comment"

"The GTi is a great car, but there is no way I would pay any attention to someone that talks of "explosion of G's" after driving one..."

""Instant explosion of G's"?? What with? Your 140-odd kW of FWD fury? "

All an All, I was quite impressed with how those took my comments about their beloved WRX, and I think there is a good bunch of people in that forum, Maybe we should Orgnise a VWwatercooled + WRX.com.au Cruise

[RhysQ]

wow there are some real tools on that site, but it's interesting to read to 'real' comments made by the ones who actually know what they are talking about.

i find it funny how the one that calls us feucktards has an avatar of himself driving recklessly in a suburban street.... thumbs up to him :duh:

overall i reckon they took the review pretty well, it was definitely worth being leaked to their site to hear the other side of it.

[Sharkie]

Bottom line is ....

WRX makes you feel special 20% of the time .....

GTI makes you feel special 80% of the time .....

Which would you rather have ?

[KWICKS]

Most of them have pre MY08 WRX's, much better cars than the MY08 WRX. A real competitor to the GTI in performance and space. The MY09 addresses some of the performance issues, but its still smaller and very poorly finished inside.

I own a Subaru (Liberty Spec B) and a VW (GTI). One look at the new WRX was enough to turn us away. And there has been precious little said about the stigma associated with the WRX - my Mrs wouldn't be seen dead in one.

We ordered a GT Sport but VW couldn't deliver so we ended up with a GTI. I think the two cars that we came closest to buying when changing from the GT Sport were the Audi A3 2.0T and the R32, while the Ford Focus XR5 was a solid car as well. The current WRX just didn't enter the equation.

It's proof that constant improvement (kaizen) is required to stay in the game, unfortunately Subaru did not improve the WRX when it moved to MY08.

[Blitzen]

Good stuff.
As for the Barina SRi - didn't that one win Wheels COTY and Motor BFYB?

Yeah, COTY 3 years running(02, 03, 04), and BFYB 2 years running(03, 04) in its class and out right too I believe (I have to look it up, but I have the magazines).

[Greg Roles]

Well I could have gotten a new WRX at next to cost thanks to a good mate being a Subie dealer principal....and there was still no way I would drive one.

[WhiteRabbit]

Ok, So here is the latest jokes of my G comment on the WRX forum, I have to say; I found it very funny :toast:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/trev2/EXPLOSION.jpg

[Greg Roles]

I think you should trademark it, you're starting a trend!

[bazzle]

Bottom line is ....

WRX makes you feel special 20% of the time .....

GTI makes you feel special 80% of the time .....

Which would you rather have ?


My MkV R32 :nana:

Bazzle

[nismo23]

hahaha
word gets around!
http://www.wrx.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=54098

was that you wr?

No bites yet though :(

HEHE, this freeballer23 is a bit of a stir:moonie:

[nismo23]

Looks like the thread has a bit of momentum in suby land...:nana:

[GTI POLO]

Im reading this and thinking... hmm a bit biased..

WRX would really leave a VW Golf GTi Flapping in the wind..

I used to have a 05 Audi A3 147kw 2.0T with DSG, same drivetrain as GTI.. It had plenty of punch but if the WRX toom aim at you, it would destroy you..

I much rather like the big boomy top end rush of a turbo, not the baby turbos running out of puff as revs rise.. Thats what happens with the GTI, lets be real.. (im talking stock for stock). People used to ask me if the audi was even turbo or not.

On the street, the low down torque is nice, but when you plant the foot, the VW doesnt deliver much more as it gives you 75% performance with just a whiff of throttle whereas the WRX gives you a slap in the chops for tickling the go fast pedal.

I also had an XR6T, they have big turbos, again nothing down low before the boost arrives, but when it did arrive, whoa you would know about it.

[3Putt]

Just overlay the torque curves of each car on each other, and all will be revealed.... they would be very different indeed.

Horses for courses, as they say.

"Useable torque" says the Golf man, as the Rex man responds "look at the scoreboard pal!"

As for the Mathletes out there, do i hear anyone citing "area under the curve"? That may determine the real winner here.. maybe..

[VW Convert]

Im reading this and thinking... hmm a bit biased..

WRX would really leave a VW Golf GTi Flapping in the wind..



Don't think there is much doubt about that.

I wouldn't knock the WRX but really comparing a GTI to a WRX is comparing chalk and cheese. I get great enjoyment from every day driving in the Jetta (I know, I know it's not a GTI) but I would not enjoy driving a WRX every day, characteristics are totally different. Of course if the opportunity arose to take a WRX for a fang.........that's a different story! :biggrin:

As they say, it's horses for courses.

Cheers

George

[ericablack36]

Hello
My first post.

I have been in the market for a hot small car for some time. Upgrading a base model Subaru Impressa, that my wife uses as a daily runner. I wanted a new car that was a suitable day runner for her plus had some poke when I got behind the wheel for spirited driving or the odd track day.

I looked carefully at the WRX, the Golf GTi and the Renault Clio. The Clio is a mightly little car with Brembo brakes, a great suspenson set up and a punchy and high reving naturally aspirated 2.0l engine with a close range 6 speed box. It is great fun to hoon around town and would be a lot of fun on the track. In the end, I decided against it.

The 09 WRX is a big improvement on the 08 WRX (which was deemed the greatest dissappointment of 2008 by MOTOR magazine). The 09 WRX is quick and quite a thrill when you hit hard the loud stick. The brakes and the handling are not quite up to scratch - but then again, Subaru reserves for the STi good handling and braking capability (and improved performance). I might be completely wrong here, but in my view, Subaru needs to improve the handling and brakes of base WRX so that it is more competitive against the Golf GTi. An improved base version of the WRX would bring it much closer to the level STi. Subaru could either upgrade the STi or discontinue it (as it has discontinued involvement in WRC.) A discontined STi would surely disappoint some people, but many WRX owners like to modify their cars and decisions about performance enchancement could be left up to them. The 09 WRX is a much more useable car around town than the Ralliart which is becalmed till it pushes past 2,000rpm and then it takes off. It really is a stop, start affair about the town - and the sales staff I dealt with readily acknowledged as much.

In the end, I chose a GTi despite its lack of horsepower compared to the WRX. It is tractable at low revs, nippy and handles like a dream. A good car need to performance on three fronts: go fast, brake and corner well. The WRX wins the straight line race, but the GTi handles and brakes better.

If the Pirelli version was available in a manual gearbox, then, for my purposes, it would be the ideal car for an acceptable daily runner and suitable occassional track car.

The 09 WRX is still a serious competitor to the GTi and I would not be surprised if WRX sales really take off.

Unfortunatly, the new WRX design has almost universally upset traditional Rex enthusiasts. I would have to agree with them. There are major advantages to defining a style and then reinventing, revising and modernising it over time - as is the case with the Golf, Porsche 911, Rolls Royce, BMW, Mercedes, the Mini and so on. By doing so, car manufacturers can invest in making incremental improvements because the benefits of such innovation can be realised over the longer term.

The alternative approach is to adopt a totally new design every decade or so. This has been successful for some manufacturers (Holden, Ford, Toyota etc). I personally prefer the former approach because by retaining a particular styling, customers are not only buying a car and a manufacturers reputation, but they are also buying heritage.

Heriage certainly matters to VW as it is possible to seeing the family resemblence between the current Golf model and first 1970's Golf model. The Golf is not a beauty but it has become iconic; and iconic is something the Rex can now never be.

My new GTi arrives 30th December and I look forward to joining Golf track and social events.

I was nearly an WRX owner, but every person I asked for advice about which car to buy said: get the Golf. And so I have.

I look forward to enjoying the Dub culture

[WhiteRabbit]

Hello
My first post.
............................
I look forward to enjoying the Dub culture


First of all Congrats on the GTI
Welcome a board the VWW ship, from my experience this will be an enjoyable ride.

Good cars, and good club culture, get yourself to the next Cruise and find out.

Nice review, well done. I have to say, I missed on trying the Megan Sport, the looks are contrversial, but I think it grows on you.

Now a bit of advice, GTI not GTi, the latter is a Proton, and members here are not to fond of that. :)

[gregozedobe]

As for the Mathletes out there, do i hear anyone citing "area under the curve"? That may determine the real winner here.. maybe..

CAUTION - This is a long post with lots of technical theories and data. If you have a short attention span you may wish to skip to the next post (I won't mind) ;)

A lot depends on what is important to you and therefore what you want to measure.

In absolute terms, acceleration is largely dependent on 5 factors :

1 Power to weight ratio - with power defined as the area under the POWER curve (not the torque curve - admittedly this is dependent on the torque curve, but engine rpm also comes into play).

2 Traction (especially off the line).

3 Gearing (gearbox and final drive) and time taken to resume power at each gearchange.

4 Driver skill and technique (and mechanical sympathy).

5 Wind drag (mostly only important at higher speeds).

Because the Subie WRX has AWD (see factor 2 above) it can produce much better 0-50kmh times than a FWD car with the same power to weight ratio, and particularly if the driver is prepared to rev it hard and drop the clutch (see factor 4). If nothing breaks they really scoot off the line, whereas a powerful FWD has to be driven with some skill to get away without excessive wheelspin.

To eliminate the variability affect of factors 2 and 4 above, Car and Driver magazine (US) also measure what is sometimes called a "street start" where the car is rolling at 5mph in 1st gear, then they simply flatten the accelerator pedal without touching the clutch and time how long it takes to reach 60mph. This removes the launch advantage that AWD cars have, and takes driver skill and technique from the picture, but it can penalize turbo cars that take more revs to get on boost.

I always prefer empirical evidence over theoretical discussions any day, and back to back comparisons are best of all, as they eliminate a lot of variables that can otherwise distort results. With that in mind, I think the following is very relevant.

In the Jan 09 edition of Car and Driver they did a comparison test of a Honda Civic Si (197bhp), Mazda 3 MPS (263bhp), Lancer Ralliart (237bhp), Subaru WRX MY2009 (265bhp) and Golf GTI (200bhp) plus a couple of other "cheap" performance cars that I've left out (due to irrelevance, and my lack of interest plus inherent laziness).

The following are some of the acceleration figures (all in seconds and mph) they got from their testing:

Car : .......... 0-30 ... 0-60 ... 5-60 ... Weight(lbs) ... 1/4 mile (et and trap speed)

Civic Si : ..... 2.5 .... 6.7 ...... 7.7 ..... 2947 ............ 15.1@94

Mazda 3 : .... 2.3 .... 5.5 ...... 6.2 ..... 3170 ............ 14.0@103

Lancer : ...... 1.9 .... 5.4 ...... 6.3 ..... 3500 ............ 14.2@95

Subaru WRX : 1.5 .... 4.7 ...... 6.3 ..... 3204 ............ 13.5@102

Golf GTI : ..... 2.3 .... 6.1 ...... 6.7 ..... 3168 ............ 14.7@96

As expected, both AWD cars top scored for the 0-30 times, with the FWD cars trailing significantly behind. However, note the large difference between the 0-60 and 5-60 times for the WRX compared with the much smaller difference in the GTI times, and the "good" 5-60 performance for the Mazda (obviously difficulties getting traction from a standing start handicapped it quite a lot).

I have seen another more "real world" measurement that seems to have fallen from favour so it isn't seen much anymore : the "Time Exposed to Danger" (TED) which was supposed to show how long it would take to overtake a truck on a single lane highway. Typically this was 80-120 or 80-130kmh, using whichever gears gave best acceleration. I think this was a good indication of how well a car could accelerate without requiring specialist techniques (or a complete lack of mechanical sympathy).

Oh, and I wish you all a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and safe travelling (there are lots of loonies out there) :)

[WhiteRabbit]

CAUTION - This is a long post with lots of technical theories and data. If you have a short attention span you may wish to skip to the next post (I won't mind) ;)

Oh, and I wish you all a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and safe travelling (there are lots of loonies out there) :)

Very good post mate, thank you for that. I wonder were I can get a copy of this review. Wouldn't mind a deeper read. I think it relates to a video I posted before.

Merry Christmas to you to, wish us luck on 3000kms drive starting tomorrow

[gareth_oau]

When i was in the market for a car earlier this year, I initially narrowed it down to the WRX a Golf Mk 4 GTI and an Audi A3T.

The WRX was by far the best performer of the 3, but I didnt go that direction, mainly because there are so many on the road, and they were typecast young guys cars which required a milo tin to be affixed to the rear.

I kinda liked the GTI, but found mylself wanting a bit more of everything. The A3 was a bit more sophisticated than a GTI, but didnt appeal to my primal urges so much.

Eventyually I blew my budget and got myself an Audi S3 which is far more comparable to WRX, but at the same time a quantum leap more sophisticated and classy.

Fortuntely, the one I got had a few tricks up its sleeve (thanks to APR) and is delivering a very healthy output and a very large smile everytime I take it out for a spin!

[DaveMack]

Eventyually I blew my budget and got myself an Audi S3 which is far more comparable to WRX, but at the same time a quantum leap more sophisticated and classy.

Fortuntely, the one I got had a few tricks up its sleeve (thanks to APR) and is delivering a very healthy output and a very large smile everytime I take it out for a spin!

Looks like I'll have to make room on my 2009 calendar to get over to the West Coast at the beginning of Nov 2009 to see the final round of the air racing and go fo a spin in your S3, Gareth. :biggrin:

Dave

[gregozedobe]

Very good post mate, thank you for that. I wonder were I can get a copy of this review. Wouldn't mind a deeper read. I think it relates to a video I posted before.

Merry Christmas to you to, wish us luck on 3000kms drive starting tomorrow

I subscribe to C & D, so I get it early, it will probably hit the shops in January. I hope you have a safe drive - I cheated and did our 3,000Km "Rellie Rallye" the week before Christmas, thus avoiding overcrowding at the Olds, Out-Laws and on the roads (still saw a few loonies with death wishes though :eek: )

[WhiteRabbit]

I subscribe to C & D, so I get it early, it will probably hit the shops in January. I hope you have a safe drive - I cheated and did our 3,000Km "Rellie Rallye" the week before Christmas, thus avoiding overcrowding at the Olds, Out-Laws and on the roads (still saw a few loonies with death wishes though :eek: )

I'll be stuck driving behind our hired Caravan, I think I'll blow a couple of fuses by the end of this slow trip.

I might have to shoot ahead a couple of times.

Thanks for the heads up on the mag, I'll get my hand on it when I get it.

If I'm correct, the GTI came second to the MPS in the review, even though it was like the 2nd slowest. if it was related to the video I saw.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9iTxa6F0AXo

[gregozedobe]

I'll be stuck driving behind our hired Caravan, I think I'll blow a couple of fuses by the end of this slow trip.

Just relax and drive in cruise mode, and think of the great fuel economy you'll be getting :biggrin: See how much better you can do than the 7.2l/100km I got from my Octy (100Kmh, undulating road, aircon on, heavy load).


If I'm correct, the GTI came second to the MPS in the review, even though it was like the 2nd slowest. if it was related to the video I saw.


That sounds about right, their final ranking was:

MPS, GTI, Cobalt SS, WRX, Civic, Mini JCW, Lancer Ralliart.

[gareth_oau]

Looks like I'll have to make room on my 2009 calendar to get over to the West Coast at the beginning of Nov 2009 to see the final round of the air racing and go fo a spin in your S3, Gareth. :biggrin:

Dave

keep in touch Dave, i'll help you sort out a good holiday (and I might let you borrow the S3 if you promise to behave in it!!)

[DaveMack]

Welcome to the forum, Eric. I'm sure you'll enjoy your GTI and there are numerous opportunities to join in the dub fun with get-togethers, cruises and encyclopaedic information available to you (just ask). :biggrin:

Cheers,
Dave

[DaveMack]

... might let you borrow the S3 if you promise to behave in it!!

Of course I will. :driver::rolllaugh:;):rolleyes::evil:

Dave

[gareth_oau]

LOL Dave, I didnt say you could have the keys as wellj:

[WhiteRabbit]

Just relax and drive in cruise mode, and think of the great fuel economy you'll be getting :biggrin: See how much better you can do than the 7.2l/100km I got from my Octy (100Kmh, undulating road, aircon on, heavy load).


Here is the result of the Drive.

Very impressed, car is very comfortable over the 2,500kms drive. I got down to 6.6 l/100km on the drive from Melbourne to Albury, and 6.7 from Goulburn to Penrith. the best I got out of a full tank was 720kms. (both those trips was aiming for a 110-115km/hr on the GPS)

That's with a full boot and back seat, and the recommended 260FW/300RW tyre pressure.

The camper van was not bad