Slow leak in tyre, what should be my next step?

[turboveedubb]

g'day dubbers, I need some advice from you about what my next step should be?

I few months back, the tyre pressure warning came up on the dash, pulled into a servo and sure enough one of the tyres was down to 20PSI. Pumped it back up, took it to my local K-Mart tyre and auto to have it looked it. Got it back a few hours later and was told 'couldn't find a problem, no charge'.

Since then every few weeks I'd have to pump the same tyre up every so often as it's the only one which slowly deflates.

Just got my Jetta service yesterday (15k). I mentioned that one of the tyres had been slowly deflating and every month or so I'd need to put in a about 10PSI.

They pulled it off the rim and had a look. There were 2 conclusions from the service department:

1. That someone had previously taken it apart, put a patch on the inside of the tyre to fix a small puncture. The patch didn't completely fix the leak, as evident by having to pump it up every few weeks.

2. Whoever took it apart last time wasn't very careful and had damaged the 'bead' of the tyre, but had realised they had done it and put some 'bead seal' on it.

They recommended to have the tyre replaced as soon as possible.
Quote for one Bridgestone RE050A (225/40/R18 ) was $495.

They also recommended me to go back to the K-Mart place and talk to the guys to find out exactly what happened and if it was the case that they had damaged the tyre bead, then I'd be entitled to have the tyre replaced by them.

As far as I'm aware, the only people to have access to the tyre were:
1. The dealer when I bought car. (Wheels and tyres were dealer fitted)
2. My local K-Mart tyre and auto.
3. Volkswagen dealer service.

The cost is a factor but if it came down to it, I'll pay $500 for the tyre.
And I threw away the paperwork the K-Mart gave me as they said there was no problem so I didn't see a point in keeping it.

What do you think I should do?

Thanks!

[gareth_oau]

if you have no luck in finding a guilty supplier, then maybe consider claiming it on yr insurance, depending on yr excess NCB etc of course.

[Maverick]

g'day dubbers, I need some advice from you about what my next step should be?

I few months back, the tyre pressure warning came up on the dash, pulled into a servo and sure enough one of the tyres was down to 20PSI. Pumped it back up, took it to my local K-Mart tyre and auto to have it looked it. Got it back a few hours later and was told 'couldn't find a problem, no charge'.
...

They pulled it off the rim and had a look. There were 2 conclusions from the service department:

1. That someone had previously taken it apart, put a patch on the inside of the tyre to fix a small puncture. The patch didn't completely fix the leak, as evident by having to pump it up every few weeks.

2. Whoever took it apart last time wasn't very careful and had damaged the 'bead' of the tyre, but had realised they had done it and put some 'bead seal' on it.
...........

What do you think I should do?

Never take your car to K-Mart auto, I mean why on earth would you take your car there? They're a franchise that hire the cheapest staff possible and don't specialise in anything other the poor service.

Take your car to a proper tyre shop where they do this sort of thing day in and day out and have all the tools needed and the experience. The repair they did was way below standard and was dangerous, the fact that they would A) stuff up a simple repair and B) damage the bead and then goo it back together and then hand the car back shows that they don't give a stuff.

Either the manager was not aware of what was going on which is just as bad as if he knew what was going on. Either way I would consider taking this to small claims court, if the tyre has not been off the car before this you should win the case.

Make a complaint to K-Mart head office after taking to the local outlet and see what they have to say. If they won't do anything then take it to small claims court.

And NEVER EVER take you car to K-Mart Tyre and Auto, you may as well take it to Ultratune for servicing if you're going to do that :brutal:

[jb747]

Unless your tyre is very low mileage, you really need to replace two tyres, not just one....

[CatonaPC©]

How does the tyre pressure sensor work?

[gregozedobe]

Life is too short to get all worked up over a tyre that has done 15,000Km. It would be extremely difficult to prove who did what (eg it is possible the dealer or their agent did it before you collected the car), let alone actually get any money from anyone.

Maybe you could employ Maverick to argue for you on a commission basis ? Offer him 50% of the dollars you save, but only if he is successful (tongue firmly placed in left cheek, along with a big grin)

And even if you get somewhere, they will only be talking about the remaining legal %ge of the tread life of the worn tyre, and basing it on the (very high) RRP. So you might end up getting 4/5ths of stuff all.

As JB747says, unless you have a brand new, identical tyre on your spare wheel you should buy 2 new tyres (so they are the same on an axle).

Shop around, you might find better prices.

I only buy from (and have any kind of work done by) a reputable tyre specialist, and even then I prefer to go to a place that lets me watch the work being done on my wheels (I'm sure they are a bit more careful when they know the owner is watching closely).

[turboveedubb]

Thanks for your input guys.

I definitely have learnt my lesson and won't be using K-Mart tyre and auto again.

And yes, I definitely agree that life is too short to worry about a tyre, it's just that I hate the feeling of being misled (as cheesy as that sounds).

I'm going to have a cool and calm conversation to the manager of K-Mart t&a to see if they have any recollection of what happened.

Any recommendations on good tyre retailers in eastern suburbs of Melbourne?

b.t.w. who's this maverick person that people are talking about? (not gonna use the service or anything, just curious)

[Tim]

just keep on topping up the tyre but drive harder and do burnouts at every opportunity. At least that way you will get your moneys worth and get to replace it cos its worn out! :D

[gtimk5]

How does the tyre pressure sensor work?

Through the ABS sensors but thats not the topic here thanks.
Andrew :)

[Maverick]

How does the tyre pressure sensor work?

The Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) fitted to most Volkswagen vehicles with the exception of those in the US relies on input from the ABS wheel speed sensors to detect pressure loss.

For the system to operate you must “set” the system after you have pumped up the tyres to the correct values, press the TPMS button (has an exclamation mark on it) until a beep is heard. At this point the system is in learn mode and depending on how straight the road is will learn the tyre parameters over the next few hours (generally 5-15 minutes).

The system utilises the wheel speed sensors of the ABS system. It takes information from the ABS wheel speed sensors and looks for small changes in wheel speed that occurs when a tyre loses pressure. Lower pressure results in a smaller tyre
radius, which increases the speed of that wheel relative to the other
wheels. The system operates by comparing the relative speed of one tyre to the other tyres, it has to allow for turning of corners, driving over rought roads, over uneven surfaces, with wet tyres on one side and dry on the other and this is why it won’t detect pressure loss until around 30% has been lost and is also why it takes time for the system to learn.

Whilst that all sounds good there are disadvantages to this system

* no way of telling which tyre is under inflated as there is only a single warning light
* some combinations may not be detected, ie two tyres on the same side or
the same axle under some specific circumstances won’t trigger the
warning
* no checking of the spare tyre
* the calibration time after pressing the TPMS button can be hours
* the detection of pressure loss can take anywhere from a few minutes to twenty minutes
* they cannot detect a small pressure loss, generally around 30 percent is required to trigger the warning
* no monitoring of tyre temperature
* relys on users to set the system, if they can’t be bothered to check tyres are they going to bother to set the system?

The system used in the US doesn’t have these disadvantages. The US brought in laws requiring tyre monitoring to reduce accidents and decrease fuel usage, they tested a number of systems however the ABS sensor based system could not reliably detect a loss of under 25% hence the choosing of the in wheel based sensor. Estimates have shown there to be a USD 3-500 million dollar saving by going to the in wheel based system over having no system at all.

The only disadvantage to the US system is the 10+ year life of the sensors and having to have additional sensors for winter tyres. The cost of the sensors is around USD $50 from Volkswagen. The cost of adding ABS based TPMS is in the dollars whereas the in wheel sensor based system is ~$50-100 (prices at manufacturer level). VW fit antenna’s in the wheel arches which serves two purposes, the transmitters can have lower power output which means longer battery life/lighter weight and moving wheels around doesn’t require reconfiguration of the sytem.

Aftermarket system have a central antenna and you have to update the system if you move the wheels around, often they have a colour or number on the valve stem to identify them. Benefits of the aftermarket system is that they can often monitor 7-8 tyres so you can add your spare wheel and trailer. Disadvantages are no integration into the car, battery life can be lower and/or the sensors bigger to accomodate larger batteries.

http://www.my-gti.com/321/volkswagen-tyre-pressure-monitoring-system-tpms

[Maverick]

Life is too short to get all worked up over a tyre that has done 15,000Km. It would be extremely difficult to prove who did what (eg it is possible the dealer or their agent did it before you collected the car), let alone actually get any money from anyone.

Maybe you could employ Maverick to argue for you on a commission basis ? Offer him 50% of the dollars you save, but only if he is successful (tongue firmly placed in left cheek, along with a big grin)

And even if you get somewhere, they will only be talking about the remaining legal %ge of the tread life of the worn tyre, and basing it on the (very high) RRP. So you might end up getting 4/5ths of stuff all.

If you went down the path of small claims court you could claim for two new tyres on the basis that you needed two new matched tyres. K-Mart is likely to pay up once they receive the small claims "invitation" if not before as they don't want bad publicity (as they have enough).

The effort to put in a claim is a few hours work to document everything and file the paperwork, for $1000 worth of tyres I'd consider it.

I received over $1100 compensation from a MainRoads contractor for a small chip on an alloy wheel and removing some tar by documenting what occurred and going through the motion, this wasn't just about the money however it was also about the sheer incompetence of the particular contractor and of MainRoads.

[Spyda]

just keep on topping up the tyre but drive harder and do burnouts at every opportunity. At least that way you will get your moneys worth and get to replace it cos its worn out! :D

+1 to that. Burnouts FTW.

Isnt $500 a bit to much for 1 tyre?

Can you just re-patch it?

[CatonaPC©]

The Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) fitted . . . . lower and/or the sensors bigger to accomodate larger batteries.

Only one bit I didn't get . . the bit after, "Now listen carefully, Rick . . ." :biggrin:

Thanks Maverick. Very interesting. My Golf doesn't have TPMS, though.

[Maverick]

Only one bit I didn't get . . the bit after, "Now listen carefully, Rick . . ." :biggrin:

Thanks Maverick. Very interesting. My Golf doesn't have TPMS, though.

If you have stability control you can add this to your golf for about USD$60.

[CatonaPC©]

If you have stability control you can add this to your golf for about USD$60.

You mean ESP? Yes, my car does have that. ESP intergrates ASR and ABS, so why TPMS wasn't thown in, I don't know.

For $60 it would be worth it. What needs to be done to the car to get it installed?

[Maverick]

You mean ESP? Yes, my car does have that. ESP intergrates ASR and ABS, so why TPMS wasn't thown in, I don't know.

For $60 it would be worth it. What needs to be done to the car to get it installed?

Marketing is why! Why would you get TPMS when only the GTI and R32 have it :nana:

There are cheaper places but harness from here http://www.tmtuning.com/HOME/catalog/product_detail.php?default_product=2089 is $39.00 and the switch from here http://www.tmtuning.com/HOME/catalog/product_detail.php?default_product=2000 is $21.90.

[turboveedubb]

+1 to that. Burnouts FTW.

Isnt $500 a bit to much for 1 tyre?

Can you just re-patch it?

$500 for a tyre is a little too much but the RE050As I've been told are OEM tyres which no one walks off the street and picks from a tyre retailer, so rule of supply and demands I guess means it's gonna be expensive.

The dealer (or should I say the tyre dealer next to the dealer) pulled off the old patch as it wasn't working anyway and put on a new larger patch but they said it hasn't fixed the problem.

They recon there must be something else going on inside the tyre for there still to be a leak of the same puncture not to be fixed with a larger patch.

Also the bead of the tyre, the bit which presses up against the rim to hold it in place has been damaged during the tyre removal process at some stage which is another reason for the tyre to be replaced.

[gerhard]

You could always Slime it. This will fix tread holes and bead weeping.

I carry a bottle in the GTI along with a compressor. No way would I like to drive any distance on the poxy spare.

I have used Slime successfully in 2 tyres on my Jackaroo, just remember to be kind to the tyre fitter who has to remove it by telling him it's in there. They don't like it, and the bloke who put my new 4by tyres on spat the dummy a bit, till I asked him if he's rather not have known.....and got covered.

[nismo23]

Gee i thought i was the only one. Mine was losing 10-20 in the first month on the back right.
Pump it up once a fortnight, reset the warning thingy and start again.
The only people ever to touch it was VW that i know of.
Totally over VW and their lack of service..really really over it...
I thought i had picked up a puncture or it was a faulty valve, if it were a puncture my problem but definitely wasnt going to bother with VW dealerships about it.
Let us know how you go with all of it.:drinkbeer:

[85turbo]

There are cheaper places but harness from here http://www.tmtuning.com/HOME/catalog/product_detail.php?default_product=2089 is $39.00 and the switch from here http://www.tmtuning.com/HOME/catalog/product_detail.php?default_product=2000 is $21.90.


hey Maverick, a little off topic, (and an older thread) but can i add this to my car ?
it's an 05 TDI comfortline, and has ASR (not ESP) on the button at far left.
the remaining three are blank.

Jason.

[Maverick]

hey Maverick, a little off topic, (and an older thread) but can i add this to my car ?
it's an 05 TDI comfortline, and has ASR (not ESP) on the button at far left.
the remaining three are blank.

Maybe a little too old as the ABS needs to be a recent revision but I'll post here late next week when I get my new TPMS system which allows you to monitor the 4 wheels live from one display and you have a choice of viewing temperature or pressure. System should be around AUD$230 delivered + fitting of the sensors to the wheels @ ~$80.

[someday]

So you are trying to go after KMART when infact what happened was that the leakage occurred before going to them?

[Maverick]

So you are trying to go after KMART when infact what happened was that the leakage occurred before going to them?

READ what he wrote. The tyre was fine and then a leak developed. He took it to KMART who returned the wheel and tyre after a few hours saying no problem found. The tyre still kept going down after this. The dealer took a look at it months later and found that the bead was damaged by incorrect removal and that someone had attempted to repair a puncture.

The car would not have been delivered in that manner and it's pretty clear cut that KMART damaged the bead, stuff up the repair and they returned it as a no problem found rather then own up and replace the $500 tyre.

Dealers don't remove the tyres when they're delivered and if they had repaired it before delivery it would have been going down before he took it to KMART.

[ChrisR32]

Also shop around for the new tyre. $500 is a little rich.

[pinzvidz]

Hmmm... Kmart, pffttt! I can't believe how many incompetent operators are out there, Kmart or whoever.

A proper tyre shop would've dumped the whole rim with tyre still attached into a water test tank. 99.9% of the time that will show up the leak with a tiny stream of bubbles.

And another thing too. On very rare occasions, a rim may be porous and allow an air leak to occur.

So please OP, visit a decent tyre shop.

[brad]

Kmart or whoever.

A proper tyre shop

Interestly enough, the Australian Manager of KTAS cut his teeth as the Manager of a proper tyre shop. He gave me my first job after I finished my apprenticeship. Top bloke he was too.

I worked for KTAS in the mid-'80s and lasted about 4 weeks before I put in my notice. I actually got in trouble for doing McPherson Struts (and other things) too fast. As an indication, they were paying $280 a week & my next mechanic job paid $400/week plus bonus (usually ~$100/week). Pay peanuts, etc.

[Maverick]

Also shop around for the new tyre. $500 is a little rich.

Depends if you want a decent tyre or not doesn't it.

[TDIESEL]

LMAO...

The OP had this tyre problem last year and he's still getting slammed for using Kmart.

As for paying $310 to monitor tyre pressures and temperatures "live"!!! I've heard it all now :)

[Maverick]

As for paying $310 to monitor tyre pressures and temperatures "live"!!! I've heard it all now :)

Knowing the exact tyre pressure and temperature of the tyre is very handy, you'll know of a puncture before you damage the tyre and well before you would notice otherwise in most cases.

You can see if a tyre is overheating or has a slow leak, the former you can't tell normally and the slow leak could take a long time before you pick it up.

This type of monitoring has been compulsory for all vehicles in the US since September 1 2007 and China is looking to make it mandatory as well as there are enormous safety and environment benefits.

[turboveedubb]

LMAO...

The OP had this tyre problem last year and he's still getting slammed for using Kmart.



Haha yeah I know! I've learnt my lesson and won't be going to KTA or any such places again.

The second patch job at a different tyre place seems to have done the job and the pressure's been quite steady since, just a minor top up here and there along with the other 3 tyres.

The set that came with the car has now done 20k kms, rotated once and probably need to be changed when it hits 30k kms.

[TDIESEL]

Knowing the exact tyre pressure and temperature of the tyre is very handy, you'll know of a puncture before you damage the tyre and well before you would notice otherwise in most cases.

You can see if a tyre is overheating or has a slow leak, the former you can't tell normally and the slow leak could take a long time before you pick it up.

This type of monitoring has been compulsory for all vehicles in the US since September 1 2007 and China is looking to make it mandatory as well as there are enormous safety and environment benefits.

Call me old fashioned but i'll stick to a $10 tyre guage and check my pressures every now and again. :)

Isn't it amazing how lazy technology has made us.......

[Maverick]

Call me old fashioned but i'll stick to a $10 tyre guage and check my pressures every now and again. :)

Every 30 seconds when the car is in motion? :biggrin:


Isn't it amazing how lazy technology has made us.......

Or safe.. actually both.

[Transporter]

Call me old fashioned but i'll stick to a $10 tyre guage and check my pressures every now and again. :)

Isn't it amazing how lazy technology has made us.......

It actually improves the safety especially at high speed on hwy where small puncture or leak can have serious consequences for higher speed turning or braking (under inflated tyre can come of the rim or the air can escape suddenly from the tyre.)
I installed the aftermarket wireless monitoring kit in our Golf and my T5. It alerts the driver if there is sudden air pressure loss. It displays tyre temperature and pressure including spare tyre. Great safety enhancement. :)