The Demise of my diesel

[Edison]

Hi everyone,
My little white diesel of hope (as opposed to my little red car of death, named by loon) is most likely dead i think..
It had oil in the water forever, suggesting a cracked head or gasket, and it's finally failed, preceeded by a vaying idle speed, and difficulty idling when cool. (it had to be held up with the pedal, and would do the up and down by itself thing) the varying idle speed was at about 1 or 0.5 Hz or so.
Now after a bit of a roll down the long hill to start it, the water is unreasonably pressurised, and can spit some out if opened...
anyhoo, looking at the cost of a gasket/head and all, i think i may be better off heading towards the brighter horizon of an electric (100%) vehicle. I have a 3hp motor ! 8-) 36v maybe i can ssqueeze out more than 3hp peak,... and I think i may be able to get a bigger one from america, I can get a good battery bank, and will need to go onto the electronics forum for help with the controller...
In a Vw? of course, maybe the little white one, ideally, one I don't have which would be is it a t3? a vw bus i saw the other day it was Sooo big inside and hey it was Vw! 8-)
Ed.

[Golf Loon]

sad to hear of the demise Mik. :(
Sharkey has posted on herre a few times, he has an electric powered golf in the US.

[brackie]

Sharkey has posted on here a few times, he has an electric powered golf.......
But it has a lot more that 3hp :rolleyes: My God, in 1927 the Austin 7 had over twice the power! And Mr Sharkey's rig is a hybrid that tows the front half of a diesel Rabbit to charge the batteries up.

Get the tool kit out mate......Fix the head. We don't want another 1.5 diesel motor going to the tip :(

[Golf Loon]

Yeah at least fixing the head is achieveable. Rip it off and I`ll hook you up with a cheap head reco mob and plenty of help available on here :)

[syncro]

Go and see Ron at C & S, Padstow and see if he has any second hand bits laying around.

[smithy010]

If you're going to go down the road of a fully electric golf, check out www.electroauto.com
They have a full kit for conversion of a golf to fully electric (about 70miles range).

And if you're going to sell your diesel parts, make sure you sell them here!

[brackie]

Wow!!!!:o You could buy a lot of diesel for the price of a kit for a Rabbit!

Voltsrabbit Kit (http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/kits.shtml#voltsrabbit)$7,995.00

That's USD so it translates into ~AUD10,000

I reckon a new head and other bits and bobs would be a little bit cheaper :rolleyes:

[syncro]

You don't build electric cars for economic reasons.

[peter_j_g]

It could be just the head gasket, I've had the same happen on two different VW diesels and in each case the head wasn't damaged, only a new gasket was needed.

Certainly worth lifting the head to see what's happened...

[Golf Loon]

Yeah Mik, pull the head off. Its up to you now.

[Edison]

I get depressed sometimes ( a dying GLD will do it to anyone ), and so opening it up takes me ages. Plus where is difficult, as I have no garage, just the roadside, which is ok cause the car is rego'd. I wanted the head off but only got as far as the top timing belt covers, the bottom cog is still covered, looks hard to get at.
the electric motors can be overloaded to about 10x their continuous rating for normal driving it seems and the 3 is 2.25 i had another look, i always forget, so it's like 20hp or so which is a lot of old cars... enough for an experiment anyhow...
the batteries are no problem and taken care of already, except for the specialist computer design for charging individual cells.
The electric conversion is for economy in this case, it saves about $50,000 + over a 10 year lifespan. although yes, electric cars are usually built for enviromental or racing reasons (an electric beats any petrol on quartermile type races, because of the smooth torque curve and megawatt engines)
Still that bottom cover for the timing belt, how do i get that off without feeling around by hand (it is like SOO messy down there, the whole engine needs serious degreasing, hard to do when i can't move it).
Ed.

[Edison]

If you're going to go down the road of a fully electric golf, check out www.electroauto.com
They have a full kit for conversion of a golf to fully electric (about 70miles range).

That's way too expensive an option, I'm more going to be stumbling over the registration and engineering certification i think, i don't know what is involved. The motor, I have a small one 2.25hp cont, so about 20hp peak, and batteries on the way and controller/charger will take some building by me. Mounts i'll make at tafe.
I'll also head for a 400+kms range, or at least 200 to start, that won't be too hard to do.




And if you're going to sell your diesel parts, make sure you sell them here!
If it comes to that I'm sure loon can find good homes for them, if not me.

[Edison]

Here is a site, I think the datsun goes from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, i think it might be MPH not kph
plasmaboyracing (http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/)

[smithy010]

You've got little chance in getting 400km range. Say if you've got 2kW of motor, then to run for an hour at 60kph (assuming 2kW is enough to do this,-which it isn't) would take 2kWh, which at 24V is 83Ah- so you need about 50kg of batteries just to do this.

I've done the drag calc, and it appears you need about 7-10hp to keep the car at 60-85kph.

so if we redo the calc for say, 7hp (5.25kW), you need 218AH to run for an hour.

These calcs are only representative, because the current would be way too much for a 24V supply at 7hp- more practical to run at 96-120V.

Also, when you calculate costs over a 10 year period, you would need to factor in a cost for at least i'd say 2 new sets of batteries.

There are big problems with EV's today, and i tend to agree with people's past posts in that you don't make an EV for an economic reason.

[Golf Loon]

stop dreaming and fix the damn diesel. can you get it out here? although i have never pulled the head off a diesel. degreaser is $2 at supercheep, good investment ;)

[syncro]

The electric conversion is for economy in this case, it saves about $50,000 + over a 10 year lifespan. Ed.


How do you work that out:?

[brackie]

stop dreaming and fix the damn diesel. can you get it out here? although i have never pulled the head off a diesel. degreaser is $2 at supercheep, good investment ;)
It's about time you got nice, black diesel engine oil into your pores, Loon :D
There's plenty of advice on this forum so for God's sake help the guy! Check out the number of notches on the head gasket. I have a selection here.

[Golf Loon]

Wont the head be rooted tho?
I`ll help him, but dont want to take tools across half of Sydney and then find that the one I need is at home.
If you bring the car here Edison, I`ll get into it with you and I know a good head reconditioner, who is cheap.
I just dont want another damn car here for ages, although the silver 16v is going today, leaving more room :)
I can bring my car trailer and collect the cursed beast if you like, but you`ll have to pay me petol money.

[Edison]

I just dont want another damn car here for ages, although the silver 16v is going today, leaving more room :)
It's registered, it can sit a few blocks away on the roadside. legally, just not outside someone silly's house. But it can't take long to know if it is screwed totally or not... Just opening it (the marking out of the timing belt is the tricky thing really)

I can bring my car trailer and collect the cursed beast if you like, but you`ll have to pay me petol money. Argh!! http://www.forumsplace.com/forums/images/smiles/zz_yikes.gifno curses on my white car I told you Loon! (recalling "little red car of death")
Easy peasy, and when it comes to petrol money I don't barter, I use proper cash. surprising eh? I'd love that,http://www.forumsplace.com/forums/images/smiles/dancing.gif when there is plenty of time for you, I'll clear my agenda completely, as **ANY** alternate energy car is my TOP priority.

Loon> Wont the head be rooted tho?
I reckon that'll be the thing thats gone... but to not know is worse than to know.


Check out the number of notches on the head gasket. I have a selection here. *Drool* I can't believe it! how much would you want for one? they cost heaps like $100 up here,... I was looking at it thinking I could make one, and I later spoke to someone who has done that many a time but I think $100 is fine, but if a head gasket is all I need, http://www.forumsplace.com/forums/images/smiles/banana1.gif I'll be happy to buy it. the genius told me and it rings true that I can reduce compression by putting in a four notch instead of a three (the vw place loon sent me to says you can get them up to 5 notch) and reduced compression will let me use the multiple strange oils with less risk to the head, at a cost of less power/economy ( a good tradeoff when fuel is free )


$50,000 in ten years ...How do you work that out
$50 a tank twice a week times ten years

Smithy, I was re-reading an old cancelled library book today that I have, about fuel economy it was written in the 70's fuel crisis, and is an american book, anyhow, the cars that were modified for the economy rally competitions you could just push the car with one finger on level ground, it made me think because the cars had to be like 2 tons or something minimum. Anyhow, you reduce all sorts of things like making the brakepads not drag when they aren't applied, using thinner oil in the drivetrain and bearings, different tires overinflated, anyhow, theres a heap of things, I figure I can do some of those. The batteries aren't lead ones, they are ones I'm getting cheap as, also you can get lead ones some places for the scrap value pretty much if you know how to test them out. I hate the lead one in my regular car, they ALWAYS fail on me, but I often get given them for free from people who i help. 7-10hp for cruising speed, I couldn't do that, I'd have to reduce it good and proper, make a skirt, whatever...

Oh and I resurrected a chucked out whipper snipper(petrol) today. I like resurrecting things, i did it at pastors house and now he has a new toy. I just get bored and depressed by myself is all...

[Golf Loon]

OK. How about this for a mission
I`ll bring everything I need and we`ll rip the head off at your place Edison, or wherever the car is.
Then it can sit there while we get the head etc sorted out and we can bring it back here with all the bits at a later date fror reassembly.

What I need from you diesel freaks is a list of all the tools I need to pull a head off. I`m assuming everything I need for a petrol golf + ????

Also Edison you need to work out the timing for the diesel pump and other such things. I`m a Petrol head, I dont know about Diesels.

I do know Golfs though.

How about Thursday or Friday? You might have to get up early in the arvo tho Mik :)

[syncro]

$50 a tank twice a week times ten years


What do you do, 1,000kms per week?

Matt let me know when your going there. If you forget something I am only 5 minutes away. I think you need a special tool to hold the cam or something from memory.

[Golf Loon]

Thats good Phil.
Are you at work in the arvos?
I`m thinking Thursday or Friday.
Depends whether the Mrs is having a baby or not tho.
If so, it`ll have to be next week.

[syncro]

Mostly arvos. Just call me when you know so that I will expect you.

Do you have a manual?

[smithy010]

Smithy, I was re-reading an old cancelled library book today that I have, about fuel economy it was written in the 70's fuel crisis, and is an american book, anyhow, the cars that were modified for the economy rally competitions you could just push the car with one finger on level ground, it made me think because the cars had to be like 2 tons or something minimum. Anyhow, you reduce all sorts of things like making the brakepads not drag when they aren't applied, using thinner oil in the drivetrain and bearings, different tires overinflated, anyhow, theres a heap of things, I figure I can do some of those. The batteries aren't lead ones, they are ones I'm getting cheap as, also you can get lead ones some places for the scrap value pretty much if you know how to test them out. I hate the lead one in my regular car, they ALWAYS fail on me, but I often get given them for free from people who i help. 7-10hp for cruising speed, I couldn't do that, I'd have to reduce it good and proper, make a skirt, whatever...



At 60kph, the aerodynamic drag alone for a VW golf is just under 3kW (4hp), and it increases with the square of the velocity. Add to this, rolling resistance (even if you can halve the rolling resistance), and you still have 7 or 8kW. Simply not possible to run the golf on a 2hp motor at any speed greater than two thirds of bugger all.
If you have a source of cheap nimh batteries, i'd like to know where you're finding so many at so cheap! A standard size battery pack for an EV in Ni-mh is about $15000. Lead acid is the only way to go in these times and economies.

:)

Smithy

[Edison]

OK. How about this for a mission
Sounds fantastic, I think it may be possible to put it back together again in the same spot, I'd put in 120% effort to do that, cause I'd be rather excited to have it going together, and keeping the dust out, maybe it can be towed with the new head in place but not timed? I dunno...

so Edison you need to work out the timing for the diesel pump and other such things. I`m a Petrol head, I dont know about Diesels.
I'm a male model, so i know even less, but I expect paint, scratches and drawings of the positions of the three big cogs should be enough. Maybe it should be rotated into TDC first also? don't know..

How about Thursday or Friday? You might have to get up early in the arvo tho Mik :)
Perfect, as I said, whenever is ok for you is 100% for me I've moved everything I was even thinking of doing.
...when you say early in the arvo do you mean BEFORE 8pm?

[Edison]

What do you do, 1,000kms per week? I think you need a special tool to hold the cam or something from memory.
I don't have any special tools at all, but I have helped a friend change the waterpump on another kind of car, which required timing belt removal and replacement, it went fine,.
I'd love to do at least 1,000kms a week, it's 800 round trip from the country to sydney and if fuel is free I'll do more when there's not much to do. Smoking and midnight zoo are not as attractive to me as hobbies as is looking for stuff in council cleanups.

At 60kph, the aerodynamic drag alone for a VW golf is just under 3kW (4hp), ....Add to this, rolling resistance... and you still have 7 or 8kW. Simply not possible to run the golf on a 2hp motor at any speed greater than two thirds of bugger all.
I suspect you may be correct, although the dc motors are usually driven into overload on startup, about 10x power is the usual, I think i'll just go for double the rated voltage which should provide 4x the power, or maybe triple volts, and 9x the power.
However, yes, it will be modest. But the car would allow some suburban driving which is usually tame and full of red lights. A car that would allow me to get to the train station (same as shops) and back, or to pastors house and back would be of great benefit, saving in fuel and maintainance on the normal cars. after that, another motor would be in my sights.
It would be monumentally useful for all the short trips, and let me know just what the measured rolling resistance is, in kW's! and the power consumption, and I can make better estimates...

[mollins]

hey this is aydan (gld gti) not mollins - i have a broken internet atm.. hehe

ed, you need to give fred a ring at VSI Imports in SA. google in VSI Imports and you should find em. give em a ring, a head gasket in any size is less than $70 im sure, atm.

if your little golf of hope was running semi ok before, i can give you some hints as to what you'll find:

- badly blown head gasket (you already know)
- worn valve guides and seats
- maybe worn rings

what sort of km on the engine? if its less than 200k, dont worry too much. replace the head gasket. check for bad wear in the valvetrain, if you can afford some new head components do that.

on putting it back together, use a careful head bolt tightening sequence. dont be afraid to vary from the manual in putting in a few more steps - takes longer but is worth it

btw, you need 11hp to cruise at 100km in a mk1

[Edison]

I do think it will be very worn, and I'd be happy to spend the extra on fixing it up so long as I can save the money first of course, and so long as it looks like a goer. it's 265k now, but I *never* take that to mean dead as some people do, it's never the best indicator of wear and tear. Not nearly as good an indicator as actual wear and tear itself. I'll spend as much time and extra steps as I can, thats no problem at all, results today are more important than the few extra minutes you put in a year ago.
It's on the street and so for degreasing it I found a manual pressure sprayer I can use with the degreaser to wash it down 1st. not done yet...

Of the 11hp, how much is wind resistance and how much is drive train, tyres, etc ?

Also I almost never cruise at 110, not on the country roads. Though when I do an electric car, I probably will. Because if I am designing a computer or more for the car, I can include a simple driving aid for potholes and the like.

I think if the odometer was linked to a computer you could enter all the nasty little things you find like potholes into it so it can make a file of your common journeys and warn you when you are approaching a nasty item so you don't go over it and ruin your wheels. it would know speed of course from the odo link, it could also keep track of cameras and speed limits, possibly even take over the whole cruise control thing... but so easy cause it just needs one sensor and your occasional input.

[Golf Loon]

Right Edison, call me as your phone is not working mate.

I have a few ideas for your car, not all bad.

Talk to me man

[posscakes]

edison www.busdepot.com is a cheap place to order head gaskets. allow a week or 2 to get it cause they come from US. find out how many notches you require i have a 4notch u can have

[william]

i smell an engine transplant coming on

[Edison]

If you have a source of cheap nimh batteries, i'd like to know where you're finding so many at so cheap! A standard size battery pack for an EV in Ni-mh is about $15000. Lead acid is the only way to go in these times and economies.

Hi smithy,
I'm into faith, I believe anything is possible, and then just think up a way. I was reading on www.megawattmotorworks.com about a electric car that can be recharged in 5 mins!! and it says it takes 3 mins to fill a petrol one. Got me thinking I'd like some Li-ion, but who can afford them eh? but faith gave me the insane idea that finding and approaching the service departments of the right electronics firms, under the cover of a garbage company (you can get a IBN number easy as falling off a log) and then get someone else to collect the garbage, you just act as middleman. you might target the ones recalling the Li-ion cells for all the laptops, when 2 in a milion fail in a blaze, the rest are ok, and if you take extra precautions, well, you see my point... anything is possible for those who believe.
The idea IS a longshot, and I won't be doing it (don't want Li-ion anymore) but it was just that in a flash I saw the way, after a bit of brainstorming you can think of lots of things, if you believe it is possible first.
I also found this cute image on a mk1 forum today :
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2006/10/mk1gifthinggif-1.jpg

Lead acid is the only way to go in these times and economies.
But you can't stop progress.!

[Edison]

I'm waiting for my friend to call me back and let me know about my money situation (and if I can get a loan) because I might be able to get some diesel parts, as in engines! (in pieces) I hope this works out.
(off to pray to the god of VW)http://www.forumsplace.com/forums/images/smiles/notworthy.gif http://www.forums.newbeetle.org/images/avatars/vwlogo.jpgor make a deal with the http://www.forumsplace.com/forums/images/smiles/devil.gif

[Golf Loon]

Make sure you get a good price for your soul. :D