APR ECU Version 2.0 loaded...!

[RhysQ]

hey all,

i now have the APR Version 2.0 patch installed onto my APR Stage 1 ECU. I must say thanks to Guy for organising this for me and Glen down at Eurotune Miami for loading it on today. it only took him 30 mins to install the patch and he said to me that in all the chipped Polo's he's done and driven (which he said is a bucketload), mine definitely feels the strongest and smoothest....he loved it.

when i first left the workshop it seemed as though my car had lost power and i was a little dissapointed. i then realised that i had to wait a bit for the system to alter itself to the new settings.

it was about a 20min drive back to the office and i really started to notice a difference about 10 mins into the drive. initial thoughts are the torque seems to come on earlier and hold up VERY smoothly through the whole rev range....i was more than impressed.

i put the car in 3rd gear travelling at 60km/h and when i put the foot down the pull came on straight away and felt a lot stronger than previously (i did this a few times on the way to the workshop for my own comparisons).

Overall, it does not feel as though there is more HP but i really like the strong pull through the range and the smoothness of it.

i will just have to give it a good test drive on the weekend to fully run in the new settings and i will update my post on my feelings then.

Cheers
Rhys

[DubSteve]

Excellent to see so this was basically like a smooth out map over the first map?

Can I ask what are the improvements over the first one ir can you do anything over the first tune?

[Whubbsie]

You're running stock except for the BOV right? When can the rest of us get V2?

[GT3]

Good stuff Rhys, keep the reports coming. ...probably need to give your car a decent flogging too so all the setting adjust correctly :biggrin: ..interestingly, all the ppl who've trialled V2 report a better and smoother torque band. haven't heard anyone yet say they didn't like it or would go back to V1 ...wonder how long before the rest of us can load :countsheep:

[RhysQ]

Excellent to see so this was basically like a smooth out map over the first map?

Can I ask what are the improvements over the first one ir can you do anything over the first tune?

yeah it seems as thought it is a smoothed out map with an improved torque curve, i just drove home then and i'm lovin it.

what do you mean improvements over the first one? after Eddy tested it on the recent Brissy dyno day his car showed a better smoother torque curve and the torque looked to come on earlier as well (if i remember correctly). so i sort of knew what to expect from this but didn't know what the difference would be because Eddy has many mods to help push his along.


You're running stock except for the BOV right? When can the rest of us get V2?

yeah i just had the Stage 1 APR ECU and bov (which the bov is not performance enhancing......nor wanker enhancing sam :mad:)

you need to speak to Guy about the V2 and what his plans are for it.


Good stuff Rhys, keep the reports coming. ...probably need to give your car a decent flogging too so all the setting adjust correctly :biggrin: ..interestingly, all the ppl who've trialled V2 report a better and smoother torque band. haven't heard anyone yet say they didn't like it or would go back to V1 ...wonder how long before the rest of us can load :countsheep:

yeah i will give it a decent flogging on the weekend to get it all set it, looking forward to it!!

after driving this i know i wouldn't go back to V1, this is great.

Cheers,
Rhys

[572]

Sounds exciting Rhys; might have to hit Guy up once I've got a few more parts on! You might have to bring it for a flog up this way lol :D

[Guy_H]

Anybody is welcome to update to the flash - no cost for the software - but it would be good to offer your local dealer a little compensation for their time!

I know that in Brissy, its normally a carton of Coopers Pale, Gold Coast, Rum & Coke & Sydney is Guinness!

The file is good, it just runs different boost calibration - no timing pull, plenty of fuel & from the data we have, still runs fine on cars with software only.

Now if only we could get it to peak at another 50hp, it would satisfy everyone (re unitronic thread :biggrin:)

[RhysQ]

Now if only we could get it to peak at another 50hp, it would satisfy everyone (re unitronic thread :biggrin:)

that would be awesome, would send the competition back to the drawing board as well....all good things for us tuners. if or when you guys get that extra 50hp sorted, i'll be there for...version 2.1?? :? :)

i didn't even think of offering a carton....i felt sort of bad getting half an hour of his time for free, thats a rare occurrence from a mechanic :D. i am getting the mount inserts off him in the near future so i will have to grab him something extra then.

[VW GTI]

Anybody is welcome to update to the flash - no cost for the software - but it would be good to offer your local dealer a little compensation for their time!

I know that in Brissy, its normally a carton of Coopers Pale, Gold Coast, Rum & Coke & Sydney is Guinness!

The file is good, it just runs different boost calibration - no timing pull, plenty of fuel & from the data we have, still runs fine on cars with software only.

Now if only we could get it to peak at another 50hp, it would satisfy everyone (re unitronic thread :biggrin:)

I bought you your coffee on the dyno day Guy, does that count :D

[Whubbsie]

Anybody is welcome to update to the flash - no cost for the software - but it would be good to offer your local dealer a little compensation for their time!

I know that in Brissy, its normally a carton of Coopers Pale, Gold Coast, Rum & Coke & Sydney is Guinness!

The file is good, it just runs different boost calibration - no timing pull, plenty of fuel & from the data we have, still runs fine on cars with software only.

Now if only we could get it to peak at another 50hp, it would satisfy everyone (re unitronic thread :biggrin:)

Whats melbourne then? :drinkbeer:

[RhysQ]

Whats melbourne then? :drinkbeer:

Guava Cruisers! j:

[GT3]

;214545']Guava Cruisers! j:

nah ..Dean at Volkspower will only accept a slab of ethanol or race fuel :biggrin:

[Buller_Scott]

Melbourne = a bottle of "Pink".

Or a box of De Bortoli Semillon Trebbiano Chardonnay, for those extra special jobs

[leasaunce]

I want V2 for mine.... need to talk to Derek.

[Bubu]

I want V2 for mine.... need to talk to Derek.


x2. Might go down there today.

[Grant]

Q @ Polo-GTI

so if the map runs different boost and fuel config, have you noticed any change in fuel consumption?

Grant

[RhysQ]

Q @ Polo-GTI

so if the map runs different boost and fuel config, have you noticed any change in fuel consumption?

Grant

haven't really driven it enough to notice....yet. i will drive it a fair bit this weekend and i'll do another write-up sunday arvo or monday.

i only live 5 mins drive from work so i barely drive mon-fri.

the only thing i am wondering is that my fuel consumption test will not be really relevant this weekend because i will be more looking for torque delivery and smoothness (therefore pushing the car hard = more fuel)

[leasaunce]

^We need Guy to give us a full explaination about this V2 ... :)

[VW GTI]

Eddy has had it for a while with normal driving...

[RhysQ]

Eddy has had it for a while with normal driving...

yeah thats true, he's probably the best to speak to about the changes. keep in mind that he has quite a few extra mods which could possible have a diffrent affect over just the chip.

[VW GTI]

Surely he could give us a fuel usage comparison though :)

[Sharkie]

I'm going to give it a go as soon as I have my downpipe fitted. ETA December....... I don't drive my car often enough to be worried about fuel consumption either.

[VW GTI]

I'm going to give it a go as soon as I have my downpipe fitted. ETA December....... I don't drive my car often enough to be worried about fuel consumption either.

Copying me hey? :)

[Guy_H]

Oettinger customers now have access to the same version!

[RhysQ]

Oettinger customers now have access to the same version!

thats great news Guy! i hope other companies will follow suit now. its always good for the consumers when there is good brand competition like this.

[Sharkie]

Copying me hey? :)

No, leap frogging .... FMIC and downpipe will put me at 135kw atw .... :biggrin:

[VW GTI]

No, leap frogging .... FMIC and downpipe will put me at 135kw atw .... :biggrin:

Silver drags you down though :nana:

[RhysQ]

No, leap frogging .... FMIC and downpipe will put me at 135kw atw .... :biggrin:

he's got a point Sam. so....i think its time you order a FMIC and you two girls can bicker over whos is better.

that black paint though....eerggghh. :rolleyes: j:

silver FTW!

[Timbo]

Is there a chance anyone might post a dyno chart sometime? (acknowledging all the prequalification, restrictions, relevance, footnotes etc) I'm just interested in the shape of the curve :)

[VW GTI]

;214759']he's got a point Sam. so....i think its time you order a FMIC and you two girls can bicker over whos is better.

Oh how I wish I could...

PSS9s, FMIC and a silver bonnet.

Without the silver bonnet :)

[VW GTI]

Is there a chance anyone might post a dyno chart sometime? (acknowledging all the prequalification, restrictions, relevance, footnotes etc) I'm just interested in the shape of the curve :)

Look in the dyno day thread.

[Sharkie]

No, leap frogging .... FMIC and downpipe will put me at 135kw atw .... :biggrin:

Sorry correction with the V2 software .... about 137kw atw ..... :biggrin:

Dyno graph for V2 here : http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=19266&page=7

[Sharkie]

Looking at that Dyno graph, you see at 6000rmin V2 is about 10kw atw down on V1 .....

[Grant]

so is there any reason at all to keep V1 over V2?
eg. stock-like drive-ability
turbo lifespan
fuel consumption etc.

[VW GTI]

so is there any reason at all to keep V1 over V2?
eg. stock-like drive-ability
turbo lifespan
fuel consumption etc.

Well you can see the dyno.

The power comes on later on V1 and it has more top end according to the dyno. V2 has a higher earlier peak (the dyno was with Eddy's car though). You have to decide that.

Lifespan... no-one's killed a turbo using it yet. It has only been a few weeks though :D

We don't know about fuel consumption yet, Eddy needs to let us know if it's better or worse.

[RhysQ]

i can tell you right now..... if i didn't have full trust in APR's R&D and product quality, i wouldn't be running the V2 at all.

[VW GTI]

The fact that Oettinger are offering it too with the warranty might mean something too.

[GT3]

Dunno, I reckon V2 is part of a conspiracy to slow us down.

[Eddy]

Hoyhoy.
Boys, boys, boys me like this Version2, as far fuel figures go, I think its fairly close to version1, maybe a tad more & only a tad in consumption, so what.
As far as getting 13's, I'll be trying at Willowbank on the 20th of this month, so wait & see. I have reasonable street tyres on & I'm hoping for something good. I still have the standard turbo but hoping to break into the 13's.(with some luck maybe)

[shaneth]

Eddy Eddy he's our man, if he can't do it maybe Jason can...........

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[VW GTI]

if he can't do it maybe Jason can...........

Doubt it :nana:

[shaneth]

Doubt it :nana:

OH SNAP :brutal::nana:

[Eddy]

Eddy Eddy he's our man, if he can't do it maybe Jason can...........

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Hoyhoy.
If Jason runs a 13.99, I want 13.98 & thats how it has to be, or else.
I know I need a lot of :goodluck:

[jasn78]

Eddy didnt take u for the competitive type :) lol my first goal is improve on my current pb then lets c wat happens :)

[Guy_H]

Don't forget to shift 831rpm earlier than last time you were there!

[jasn78]

And guy dont worry i know how important that last 001rpm is :) lol

[Timbo]

Look in the dyno day thread.

Thanks ...I meant just V2 on an otherwise stock Polo

[VW GTI]

Thanks ...I meant just V2 on an otherwise stock Polo

Oh... I don't think there are any. UK Polo's might have this done but AFAIK noone here has.

[RhysQ]

small update: i had a bit of a drive last night and was in the merging lane at the lights. i gave it a good punch (don't worry - 80km/h zone) and was very impressed with how it got the power down, it definitely felt quicker - not much but enough to notice.

to compare it to how it was before, i had a passenger in the car with me last night (which i'm sure you'll all agree has a significant affect on accellaration - especialy from standstill) and it performed as if there was no one else in the car and i had lost 20kgs (i wish :rolleyes:). i now wish i was by myself and results would have been even better :D.

as for fuel consumption, it doesn't seem to have noticeably changed just at the moment, but i haven't really driven it enough to know. the big test will be this weekend when i drive a fair bit.

i doubt the new settings are fully settled in yet so at the moment things are looking good.

Cheers,
Rhys

[RhysQ]

UPDATE: ok, so the weekend has ended :( and i have given the car a good strap with the V2, and i am confident in saying the new settings are fully worked in now. :D<---this says it all

My opinions: fuel consumption does not seem to have noticeably changed. i did use more than usual this weekend but i assume that has got to do with the way i was driving the car........sensibly! :rolleyes:

performance wise i have the same opinions as before, the torque and smoothness IMO is improved significantly.

my next mod (after i put on my stubby antenna and bonnet pinstripes at lunch time today) is the APR engine mount insert so the ride quality (under power) and power delivery will feel like a dream.

Cheers,
Rhys

[DaveMack]

Hmmm ... how much is a slab of Coopers these days? :biggrin:

Dave

[Chipped]

;216042']UPDATE: ok, so the weekend has ended :( and i have given the car a good strap with the V2, and i am confident in saying the new settings are fully worked in now. :D<---this says it all

My opinions: fuel consumption does not seem to have noticeably changed. i did use more than usual this weekend but i assume that has got to do with the way i was driving the car........sensibly! :rolleyes:

performance wise i have the same opinions as before, the torque and smoothness IMO is improved significantly.

my next mod (after i put on my stubby antenna and bonnet pinstripes at lunch time today) is the APR engine mount insert so the ride quality (under power) and power delivery will feel like a dream.

Cheers,
Rhys

Rhys, I have V1 and the first thing I noticed with the engine mount was improved low end torqe and a smoother acceleration curve.
will be curious with the V2 and dogmount results.

[GT3]

Just had V2 loaded. Gave it a decent thrash so the settings would adjust quickly :biggrin:

First impressions - it seems smoother down low, particularly in 1st and 2nd gear, that's usually where you weave in and out of conjested traffic, very handy and more drivable in that sense. What's interesting is when you hit the gas between 2000-3500rpm, it kicks a LOT harder than V1, although it seems to require slightly more acceleration to get it going (compared to V1). This might be due to the lack of timing pull that Guy mentioned. The boost gauge seems to tell the story. It can spike as high 22psi before settling to 15-17psi. ..and once you shift to 3rd, it's still running pretty high boost. However, all this comes at a price :frown: ..it seems to taper off at 5000rpm, ...with V1 there's lots of power coming through until 6000rpm.

..So is it a better tune? Hard to say. Despite losing some high-end power, increased low-down power has its advantages too. The power band is very responsive between 2500-4000rpm, which is what enables you to accelerate out of corners and build speed quickly. In the real world, how often are you utilising the power band between 5500-6500rpm? ...probably not that often.

Also a good idea to upgrade your DV for V2 because it runs higher boost to sustain increased power across the mid-range.

[Sharkie]

Drive it for a few more days Neil and then give us some more feedback. I'm keen to hear your thoughts then.

[GT3]

Took it for another blast early this morning (outside temp 3.5 deg).

[RhysQ]

V2 seems faster too, even though it doesn't have more peak power, the improved mid-range power and torque translates into more speed.

good write up there Neil!

in regards to your comment above, i completely agree with you. i definitely think it feels faster. from a launch start the torque comes on hard and fast and stays solid through the range (until 5k when its a good time to change anyway).

good comment about the rolling accellaration with having to use a bit more. i noticed that as well. but in a sense it is more driveable cos with V1 sometimes the boost kicks in when you don't want it to which makes for a jerky ride (especially when you let off the gas and the whole car pulls back suddenly :(). haven't really noticed this as much with V2.

[Lams]

Took it for another blast early this morning (outside temp 3.5 deg). It really does go hard with V2, the mid-range reminds me of how my car accelerated when it had 145kw atw. V2 seems faster too, even though it doesn't have more peak power, the improved mid-range power and torque translates into more speed. Thumbs up from me on V2:cool46: ...uprated exhaust, FMIC and V2 = awesome performance. On a mission to source a FMIC now :biggrin::duh:

Neil, you're not serious are you? :mowlawn:

[VW GTI]

Neil, can you stop editing all your posts after you've typed them :(

I keep having to go back and read what you've re-wrtitten. Just write what you want the first time :duh:

I want to get mine done soon, but need to sort something with my electrics out first.

[Timbo]

By the reports (and please don't take this as an attempt -- or an excuse -- to start a chip debate) it sounds like it is fairly similar to the way the REVO Stage 1 delivers power. Hence my interest in seeing a dyno sheet from an otherwise stock car, to show the curve.

[Flaps]

By the reports (and please don't take this as an attempt -- or an excuse -- to start a chip debate) it sounds like it is fairly similar to the way the REVO Stage 1 delivers power. Hence my interest in seeing a dyno sheet from an otherwise stock car, to show the curve.

Since you've said it I will say it too. Sounds exactly like the GIAC tune.

[GT3]

Neil, you're not serious are you? :mowlawn:

Hey Alex, ..rest assured, V2 isn't quicker than my 145kw set up, just similar type of mid-range acceleration.

[Grant]

By the reports (and please don't take this as an attempt -- or an excuse -- to start a chip debate) it sounds like it is fairly similar to the way the REVO Stage 1 delivers power. Hence my interest in seeing a dyno sheet from an otherwise stock car, to show the curve.

lol, i was thinking the same thing, just didn't want to start a debate

[MACCAA]

By the reports (and please don't take this as an attempt -- or an excuse -- to start a chip debate) it sounds like it is fairly similar to the way the REVO Stage 1 delivers power. Hence my interest in seeing a dyno sheet from an otherwise stock car, to show the curve.

You had to mention the war,didn't you....

[Timbo]

Speaking of the war...???

[GT3]

By the reports (and please don't take this as an attempt -- or an excuse -- to start a chip debate) it sounds like it is fairly similar to the way the REVO Stage 1 delivers power. Hence my interest in seeing a dyno sheet from an otherwise stock car, to show the curve.

No I don't think that constitutes a declaration of war :biggrin: If the tune is similar to REVO, then sure, that's interesting to know. However, according to Sam, editing a previous post for clarity seems to warrant a custodial sentence :frown::biggrin:

[GT3]

Since you've said it I will say it too. Sounds exactly like the GIAC tune.

Now Sean's comment is a bit more controversial. When V2 was loading, I think I saw a screen that said "GIAC killer file, get the f*** out of the way once loaded" :biggrin:ha ha ha

[VW GTI]

No I don't think that constitutes a declaration of war :biggrin: If the tune is similar to REVO, then sure, that's interesting to know. However, according to Sam, editing a previous post for clarity seems to warrant a custodial sentence :frown::biggrin:

lol, nah, just getting lost with all the new posts and revised old ones!

Just post a new one with the clarification, nothing like getting the post count up!

[addictions]

where abouts would i need to go to get my car flashed with a APR program, in sydney? would anyone happen to know? =\

[VW GTI]

http://www.goapr.com.au/dealer/index.html

Look for Sydney ones on that page.

[JCM308]

So would the guys with the V2 software loaded consider V2 more suited to street use and V1 more suited for track use based on the power curves???

[RhysQ]

much of a muchness i reckon. V2 has the stronger lower and mid range torque which is good out of corners and V1 holds the peak power for longer which i'm guessing would be better at high speeds. i suppose it depends on the track.

Indianapolis 500 = V1
local go kart track = V2

i know that for everyday driving i'd rather the V2, so overall i'd say V2 FTW!! :D

[GT3]

;217150']much of a muchness i reckon. V2 has the stronger lower and mid range torque which is good out of corners and V1 holds the peak power for longer which i'm guessing would be better at high speeds. i suppose it depends on the track.

Indianapolis 500 = V1
local go kart track = V2

i know that for everyday driving i'd rather the V2, so overall i'd say V2 FTW!! :D

Totally agree with the above comments. I think V2 is more versatile and probably a better tune overall.

[JCM308]

How noticable is the drop in power after 5000? Does it plummit or just start to die off slowly?

[jasn78]

jcm will let u know after sat how v2 goes on the drags at least :)

[VW GTI]

jcm will let u know after sat how v2 goes on the drags at least :)

Are you going to use it too?

You should stay as is because Eddy has it on his.

[jasn78]

sam already changed :)

[VW GTI]

sam already changed :)

OMG a brand name! :D

[Guy_H]

I think it depends how you drive as to which version of the software you would like the best. Close on 150 Polo's with V 1.0 & no complaints about the code.

If everyone likes the V 2.0 it would be easier to remove the V 1.0 to save confusion :)

[jasn78]

lol well an aftermarket ecu and dyno time would cost way more than a flash so no other option than go a flash lmao

[VW GTI]

I think it depends how you drive as to which version of the software you would like the best. Close on 150 Polo's with V 1.0 & no complaints about the code.

If everyone likes the V 2.0 it would be easier to remove the V 1.0 to save confusion :)

I'd pay to have it on switchable with V1 (and stock). I haven't even driven it yet lol

[JCM308]

Guy, is the APR tune able to be tweaked for better performance depending on mods to car (eg just reflash for standard car but retunable if exhaust changed etc) or is it just a generic reflash?

[Guy_H]

Guy, is the APR tune able to be tweaked for better performance depending on mods to car (eg just reflash for standard car but retunable if exhaust changed etc) or is it just a generic reflash?

Well remembering that its an ME7 ECU, the adaptation is huge - a 4" intake & 4" exhaust wont require a retune.

A bigger turbo (which in turn requires more fuelling) will.

So in depends on your definition of "other mods".

As you can see, the cars that have added intercooler, exhaust, intake have no retune & the sum of the parts equal up to ~ 15wkw.

It may be possible, but without a larger turbo, how much labor would you pay to gain an extra KW or two (because I'm positive you wont see 5kw!) ?

[JCM308]

Well remembering that its an ME7 ECU, the adaptation is huge - a 4" intake & 4" exhaust wont require a retune.

A bigger turbo (which in turn requires more fuelling) will.

So in depends on your definition of "other mods".

As you can see, the cars that have added intercooler, exhaust, intake have no retune & the sum of the parts equal up to ~ 15wkw.

It may be possible, but without a larger turbo, how much labor would you pay to gain an extra KW or two (because I'm positive you wont see 5kw!) ?

Thanks for replying so promptly.

I was just wondering because I know there can be quite a large difference between a reflash and a retune once you start doing a decent number of mods. On one of my previous cars I gained 20kW atw with a retune just to maximise the potential of the mods I had.

As my experience in street cars is limited to Japanese and Aussie I was wondering if I could expect similar sorts of figures once I'd finished the Polo (I suppose I've got to start it first :duh:).

[Guy_H]

From my experience with a Japanese or AUS ecu in a car, you are probably correct.

A Jap car (I'm talking Evo 8 / 9) - its sample rates & control mechanisms are so archaic compared even to a Polo (which is now sort of two generations old).

Bit like Polo = Pentium 2, Jap = 386.

Imagine playing "need for speed" on either of those..... :biggrin:

[VW GTI]

What are the chances of getting it switchable with V1? :)

[GT3]

What are the chances of getting it switchable with V1? :)

IMO, there would be little point switching. Either stick with V1 or make the move to V2 if that file suits you better.

[VW GTI]

IMO, there would be little point switching. Either stick with V1 or make the move to V2 if that file suits you better.

Depends where you're driving.

V2 might be better in traffic and V1 better on the track.

Can't hurt if it's possible. Better than having a 104 tune considering that's like $8 a litre.

[ScottishPoloGTI]

Been readin through your post guys and a dont wanna sound a Newb but is this Stage 2 you are talking about?? Over here its £150 to move onto stage two from stage one, so am not sure if you are talking about a patch on Stage one?

[VW GTI]

Been readin through your post guys and a dont wanna sound a Newb but is this Stage 2 you are talking about?? Over here its £150 to move onto stage two from stage one, so am not sure if you are talking about a patch on Stage one?

Yeah, it is 'Stage 2'. We've (Guy has) renamed it version 2 because it's not really much different and doesn't seem to require other mods for its benefits.

[Guy_H]

Unfortunately the way the switching works & the tables that get transposed, its not practical or economical to try to get V 1.0 & V 2.0 on the same ECU.

[ScottishPoloGTI]

I see, so dont expect too much from the remap then :frown: thats put a downer on ma day lol!

A guy over here got stage two on his car and put it on the rollin road and got 45bhp increase thro the gears and top bhp at 223bhp.

He's runnin Pd160 intake, panel filter, miltek turbo back, forge FMIC, Apr dv, N75J boost valve and forge TIP.

[Guy_H]

I see, so dont expect too much from the remap then :frown: thats put a downer on ma day lol!

A guy over here got stage two on his car and put it on the rollin road and got 45bhp increase thro the gears and top bhp at 223bhp.

He's runnin Pd160 intake, panel filter, miltek turbo back, forge FMIC, Apr dv, N75J boost valve and forge TIP.

I spent 40 minutes on the phone to the UK last night comparing all our data with theirs. I think you will find that his 40hp came from the the other parts listed & about 5 from the software!

[GT3]

Depends where you're driving.

V2 might be better in traffic and V1 better on the track.

Can't hurt if it's possible. Better than having a 104 tune considering that's like $8 a litre.

Guy isn't interested in making it switchable so that rules that out. Only 3 trials in Oz so far, ...although V2 looking good, but still early days. Probably need 2-3 more trials before a proper case is made for V2. If the feeback is consistently good, then Guy will decide whether both tunes can co-exist, ie customers can chose between them, or whether V2 replaces V1 all together.

[Flaps]

I see, so dont expect too much from the remap then :frown: thats put a downer on ma day lol!

A guy over here got stage two on his car and put it on the rollin road and got 45bhp increase thro the gears and top bhp at 223bhp.

He's runnin Pd160 intake, panel filter, miltek turbo back, forge FMIC, Apr dv, N75J boost valve and forge TIP.

If that figure is at the wheels I call BS because 166kw is not possible with just those mods.

Both GT3 and my car had more & similar mods yet made 144 and 145kw atw. (194bhp)

[GT3]

If that figure is at the wheels I call BS because 166kw is not possible with just those mods.

Both GT3 and my car had more & similar mods yet made 144 and 145kw atw. (194bhp)

No it's at the fly Flaps, we both made 173kw at the fly so what he got isn't spectacular, 166kw seems about right based on his mods.

[JIMTRON]

Got V2 loaded first thing this morning. After a couple of hours of driving today, I'd say the midrange power definately is stronger and comes on more smoothly. Pulls much harder up hills than before. It's very impressive until 5000rpm, change gears and you land straight back into the middle of the powerband, Haven't had it long enough for either me or the ecu to fully adjust, but I do think the car is quicker. Looking forward to going up the dandenongs tomorrow.

[ScottishPoloGTI]

What mods u runnin with them results GT3?

Gettin ma Stage two (V2) remap tomorrow, will post my results if ave got any to make lol

[ScottishPoloGTI]

dandenongs tomorrow.

WHat are they lol????

[Whubbsie]

WHat are they lol????

The mountains in Melbourne... basically the easiest set of twisty road to get to.

[GT3]

Update: pros - ferocious mid-range acceleration :), cons - fuel consumption is also ferocious :frown:

[Eddy]

Update: pros - ferocious mid-range acceleration :), cons - fuel consumption is also ferocious :frown:

Hoyhoy.
Neil, I agree with the first part but not so much with the second part & everything comes at a price.

[RhysQ]

yeah i have changed my opinion on fuel consumption also, its certainly using more fuel but definitely worth it. :D

did a good mountain run over mount tamborine and down the otherside to tamborine village.....and then back again (for work). the road is very tight and very twisty.....but god damn a lot of hard work and extremely exciting. :D

was overly impressed with the power delivery as i did not really have to change down to 2nd gear (unless it was a hairpin) to keep the power on, 3rd was more than enough and really pulled me up the inclines.....fast! i had a hyundai excel :rolleyes: trying to keep on my tail from the base of the mountain.....i could no longer see him in my rear view after turn 3.

[shaneth]

i have to ask though is the increase of fuel consumption for you guys because of the right foot getting as much as possible out of the new software.

[Eddy]

i have to ask though is the increase of fuel consumption for you guys because of the right foot getting as much as possible out of the new software.


Hoyhoy.

Me think that may-be the case more than any thing.
Me got really good figures going to the drags & back, 490kms for 37 litres, which is pretty good for me.

[GT3]

For all you high speed bandits

[Chipped]

Sold, sold, sold!!....even tho the upgrade is free...so Guy when u flying a disc out west to quattro Motors...guess its time for a Tuned exhaust also!!

[Guy_H]

Sold, sold, sold!!....even tho the upgrade is free...so Guy when u flying a disc out west to quattro Motors...guess its time for a Tuned exhaust also!!


No need for a disc! - Quattro just load it off the APR server - you just have to call them & book in (and ask what the labor charge is!)

[Bug_racer]

Close on 150 Polo's with V 1.0 & no complaints about the code.


Ummm , sorry but thats a no , Ive had a few people complaining about APR's Polo software . No software is perfect no matter what you believe !

[Flaps]

They complained because they had to buy GIAC to fix the problems.

I had a problem with my APR flash but distributor/manufacturer never fixed it.

[DaveMack]

OK ... let's take the steam outa this before it starts.

One more sledge and I close ... OK? (My judgement call ... not yours.)

Dave

[DaveMack]

They complained because they had to buy GIAC to fix the problems.

I had a problem with my APR flash but distributor/manufacturer never fixed it.

Guy ... would you care to address this?

Dave

[Guy_H]

Flaps - send me an email please & let me know the details & steps taken to rectify it by your APR dealer & I'll look at it - Like I said - 150+ Polo's (all have the same version software) and all is good.

Need details like what your car was doing etc etc & when you had it checked out by your APR dealer.

Saying that, we have seen a couple of VW hardware related issues that can easily be sorted out - but its no use blaming software (any body's) for that.

[Guy_H]

Ummm , sorry but thats a no , Ive had a few people complaining about APR's Polo software . No software is perfect no matter what you believe !


Bug Racer,

Send me their details of "the few" - I will contact them & see what the issues are. - email or PM will be fine thanks :)

[DaveMack]

OK ... if anyone has further (constructive) views to air on the original topic ... APR ECU V2.0 ... let's hear them ... and can I just say ... if new(er) releases of major software players in this field are available or discussions are to be held ... there's nothing to stop you starting your own thread rather than hijacking the APR one to take :rifle: ... OK?

Otherwise ... let's keep it :cool46:

Dave

[Eddy]

Hoyhoy.
Me love the Version2.(APR)

[Golf Houso]

Just a quick question for you guy, what was the purpose of the V.2.0 release, Is it a power update, or something which is meant to be implemented over existing software to address some kind of issue or simply to make a change?

I know its still early days with this, and another thing is it a true 2.0 or is something close to say a 1.4 or 1.5?

I'm just interested really.

[Guy_H]

Its a true Version 2 - it was built to try to make better use of a larger exhaust & intake with some calibration changes. The changes made little if any difference to the power output, but the owners of the cars with the Beta Versions liked the power curve for the street - so now its a production version.

If you were running WOT on a track all the time, maybe V 1.0 would be better (better power spread), but for around the street, the extra low down punch of V 2.0 seems to be popular :)

[MACCAA]

Been running Oettinger V2[didn't they drop these on London during WW2?]for nearly a week now.Mid range is very strong,pickup in 5th at around 3000 is excellent.
2nd gear roundabouts are easy 3rd now.Fuel consumption is no worse,did 6.8l/100 on the way back from Wakefield,cruising at genuine 110kph.Same as V1.
Still good power at 6-6500 at the track,no real drop off after 5000rpm.
I am also running a full exhaust and Seat intake.
All good.
Cheers
Len

[jamesatfish]

Guy,

Are there similar V2 changes for the K04 & Stage III versions of the ECU?

The improved mid-range performance sounds appealing but I'm not keen on losing the top-end - however if I was to combine the V2 change with one of the turbo upgrades then I assume there would be a *big* mid-range gain and the larger turbo would offset the software-based compromise at the top end?

[Guy_H]

Hey James,

You are welcome to give it a try - the dyno shows its shifted the power back a slice compared to V 1.0 - so far nobody seems to have noticed that on the road & certainly Len gave it a good blast at Wakefield & I didn't hear any negatives from the power spread.

The K04 has a completely different tune, so its a bit hard to compare the files - the fuelling in the K04 is way different to the k03 + it can handle & sustain some more boost!

Stage 3 is another animal all together - it has all the tables re written for the 5 bar Bosch motorsport boost sensor :driver:

[Quest]

Its a true Version 2 - it was built to try to make better use of a larger exhaust & intake with some calibration changes. The changes made little if any difference to the power output, but the owners of the cars with the Beta Versions liked the power curve for the street - so now its a production version.

If you were running WOT on a track all the time, maybe V 1.0 would be better (better power spread), but for around the street, the extra low down punch of V 2.0 seems to be popular :)

I'm pretty interested too !
Does one of you encounters wheels spins in 3rd gear for example ?
Does the V2 requires bigger rims as the exhaust & intake upgrade seems to be a minimum ?
What happens to the health of the stock turbo, the stock clutch and the stock gearbox with the V2 ?

Cheers,
Quest

[Guy_H]

:?: Flaps - Bug Racer - still waiting to hear from you both :?:

[Guy_H]

I'm pretty interested too !
Does one of you encounters wheels spins in 3rd gear for example ?
Does the V2 requires bigger rims as the exhaust & intake upgrade seems to be a minimum ?
What happens to the health of the stock turbo, the stock clutch and the stock gearbox with the V2 ?

Cheers,
Quest

Health & longevity will be the same as V 1.0 - exhaust & intake is not necessary, but would be nice, same with wheels / brakes etc....

[Quest]

Health & longevity will be the same as V 1.0 - exhaust & intake is not necessary, but would be nice, same with wheels / brakes etc....

If you say it, i trust you :bowdown:
I'm writing a mail to you and Alex at the moment, as i'm on the way to step on with the ECU upgrade since you released the V2...:)
It's just what i'm looking for !! A tune which is more adapted to the street !

Thks Guy !! You're the best ! :driver:

[GT3]

If you say it, i trust you :bowdown:

cool as ...the APR messiah shall deliver ye stage 3

[shaneth]

get a grip will ya :crazy:

Hey take a look at his location, His english is good but not fantastic. And over there from what i know he doesnt have many options for VW tuning so he relies alot on what he reads here.

edit - oh and he gets excited when he hears good information about his car. :)

[T Go]

So if you wanted the free trial that APR offer, can you now specify Stage 1 or 2? and can you trial them both b4 buyin it???

[shaneth]

oh yes could go for a stage 2 trial.:biggrin:

[Quest]

cool as ...the APR messiah shall deliver ye stage 3


Yep ! I am truly sorry for my English but I do what I can ...
If you prefer I can write in French ... lol !:biggrin:

Je suis vraiment désolé pour mon anglais mais je fais ce que je peux...:wasntme:

Thks for your understanding and having edit back you post ! :mowlawn:

Thks Shane for saving me...:)

[shaneth]

Je suis vraiment désolé pour mon anglais mais je fais ce que je peux...:wasntme:

Translated - I am really sorry for my English but I do what I can


Thks Shane for saving me...:)

:)

[GT3]

Je suis vraiment désolé pour mon anglais mais je fais ce que je peux...:wasntme:

..hey - I read and speak French fluently. He just said that with stage 2, he'll be able to shag birds senseless, apparantly the girls go crazy when the torque hits quickly, no wonder he's excited :biggrin:

[Quest]

Translated - I am really sorry for my English but I do what I can



:)

So you speak french !!??? Arrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhrrrrrr !!
Let's talk in french dude !! lol !

[shaneth]

..hey - I read and speak French fluently. He just said that with stage 2, he'll be able to shag birds senseless, apparantly the girls go crazy when the torque hits quickly, no wonder he's excited :biggrin:

pmsl :biggrin:


So you speak french !!??? Arrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhrrrrrr !!
Let's talk in french dude !! lol !

No mate like you Google is your friend. :)

[GT3]

Let's talk in french dude !! lol !

laisser les filles seules, vous êtes un vilain garçon

[Quest]

..hey - I read and speak French fluently. He just said that with stage 2, he'll be able to shag birds senseless, apparantly the girls go crazy when the torque hits quickly, no wonder he's excited :biggrin:

:biggrin: C'est exactement ça !!! lol !

[Quest]

laisser les filles seules, vous êtes un vilain garçon

Elles me courent après je n'y peut rien...:biggrin:

So, let's go back to the topic and respectively to the other members in english please ! :)

I really think the V2 is good for me in New Caledonia coz we haven't yet any track road...

[Flaps]

:?: Flaps - Bug Racer - still waiting to hear from you both :?:

As you can see my reply post was deleted. You're a little late on the help since I sold the car a year ago. 4 months went by with no fix from APR so I sold it.

[Guy_H]

As you can see my reply post was deleted. You're a little late on the help since I sold the car a year ago. 4 months went by with no fix from APR so I sold it.


Flaps - I didn't see your reply - thats why I asked you for a PM or an email please - so send it to me & I'll look into it. - This thread is about V 2.0

[GT3]

Actually got .2kw more peak power with V2

[VW GTI]

My dyno runs for V1 and V2 below. Actually got .2kw more peak power with V2, and it held peak well compared to V1. But that's irrelevant - from as low 2500rpm V2 surges with power and hits (wait for it) just over 360nm of torque and sustains it !!! There's a 42nm gain with V2. With a FMIC, the high-end power issues with V2 would be sorted. IMO, APR HQ should highlight V1 on their servers and simply hit the 'delete' button :biggrin:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/2885694287_dbfc3c2011-1.jpg

I'm worried about your maths... 360-328 = 32.

But regardless of your grade 4 results (:nana:), you got a dyno sheet of the torque?

[Flaps]

you got a dyno sheet of the torque?

it's there

[RhysQ]

looks good Neil. its good to get a dyno print out of the V1 and V2 on an otherwise stock car.

Timbo, Flaps and Grant were saying that this seems similar to what the GIAC and REVO tunes were doing. anyone got any dyno sheets with the GIAC and/or REVO tunes on an otherwise stock car??

it would be good to compare torque curves...but i am only asking for this if it will not start a war, so please co-operate people! just post up the graphs and we'll discuss the curve differences.

[VW GTI]

it's there

Ahh, didn't think about it not being in Nms. The torque curve does look a lot better.

Rhys, get the one of the REVO/GIAC sites if you want that.

[RhysQ]

Ahh, didn't think about it not being in Nms. The torque curve does look a lot better.

Rhys, get the one of the REVO/GIAC sites if you want that.

aahh good idea. might have a looksee there!

Sam?? no more tosspot?

[VW GTI]

;220334']Sam?? no more tosspot?

Long story, but yes.

[Timbo]

Here's (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showpost.php?p=47556&postcount=10) my original REVO dyno chart, FWIW

[RhysQ]

here they are side by side. it is probably not the best comparison as the APR V2 test is done in 4th gear and the REVO done in 3rd. meh, it was worth a try.

good to see that both max powers are very much the same. i got a 123.8kW on V1 as well so power wise i say they are pretty even.

EDIT: how is Timbo's max torque 598.5Nm?..... thats nuts :eek:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/2885694287_dbfc3c2011-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/dyno2-1.jpg

[VW GTI]

;220351']here they are side by side. it is probably not the best comparison as the APR V2 test is done in 4th gear and the REVO done in 3rd. meh, it was worth a try.

good to see that both max powers are very much the same. i got a 123.8kW on V1 as well so power wise i say they are pretty even.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/2885694287_dbfc3c2011-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/dyno2-1.jpg

The speeds are all wrong for the gears listed anyway :?

The car does 160 in 3rd and fast than that in 4th. How come the 3rd run goes to 120 and the 4th run goes to 160?

Also... Timbo's is using a 100tune with 100 fuel (not sold in Aus anymore). Neil's I assume is a 98 tune with 98.

[Timbo]

Timbo's is using a 100tune with 100 fuel (not sold in Aus anymore)
There was bugger all in that Shell V-Power Racing, anyway. It was just a 98 + ethanol blend, not a real 100 or 104 racing fuel, yet Shell gouged another 10-12 cpl for it :mowlawn: I think I posted a dyno with the 98 tune, using that fuel, and it was pretty much the same.

:horsepoop: ;) Anyway, it's good to see the APR tune has finally caught up with REVO an GIAC :shakebutt: ;)
:grouphug::grouphug:

[DubSteve]

:horsepoop: ;) Anyway, it's good to see the APR tune has finally caught up with REVO an GIAC :shakebutt: ;)
:grouphug::grouphug:

Haha Tims stiring it up good :eek::driver:

[MACCAA]

Don't think you have to worry about increased fuel consumption with V2.
My Oettinger version was showing 5.9l/100 on the run back from Oran Park to home......[31k mainly freeway/backroads @80-100kph,6k normal suburban]
Normal suburban running appears unchanged.It's all in how you use your right foot...
Cheers
Len

[GT3]

;220351'] EDIT: how is Timbo's max torque 598.5Nm?..... thats nuts :eek:

Fair call - bit hard to compete with 600nm. ..and Sam, my V1 run hit 320nm, my V2 run hit 362nm = 42nm :biggrin:

[Timbo]

;220351']how is Timbo's max torque 598.5Nm?..... thats nuts

The central function of a gearbox is to multiply torque so -- as the run was in 3rd gear -- you have to calculate back to a direct figure...which I think was about 320Nm on that run

[RhysQ]

The central function of a gearbox is to multiply torque so -- as the run was in 3rd gear -- you have to calculate back to a direct figure...which I think was about 320Nm on that run

oh....so 32Nm behind APR V2. well that's a shame, a bit of catching up to do there... *stir stir stir* :wasntme: j:

i think we really do need to see the programs run on at least the same brand of dyno, and in the same gear. fairly inconclusive comparison otherwise.

[Timbo]

;220563']i think we really do need to see the programs run on at least the same brand of dyno, and in the same gear

I agree, but actually the chances of getting the cars in the same place at the same time is always going to be remote. However, I would point out that the curves are now quite similar.

Quite apart from that, I think it's great we have so much choice in terms of 'off-the-shelf' tunes for the Polo: it doesn't always happen with other marques. And while we might (seriously or in jest) defend the choice we've made, the reality is that this competition benefits us all.

[GT3]

;220563']oh....so 32Nm behind APR V2. well that's a shame, a bit of catching up to do there... *stir stir stir* :wasntme: j:

Actually, my V1 run did hit 340Nm, but only for a moment.

[Guy_H]

Actually only Eddy's car run on same dyno / same day / same car / shows the difference between the curves.

When we are doing all our power runs now, if the base line dyno is more than a week or two old, we can not use it - we have to redo a baseline & then the mod dyno straight after it again (costs us more, but we get consistent figures).

Therefore if your base dyno to mod one is any time apart, it could be out 15% or more (as we have proven) - its a pain in the bum, but the only way.

[GT3]

Therefore if your base dyno to mod one is any time apart, it could be out 15% or more (as we have proven) - its a pain in the bum, but the only way.

Fair enough. I have controlled all variables, with the exception of 'same day'. Another difference between my run and Eddy's is that V2 had one week to adjust and bed in my case. Is there any disadvantage or possible inaccuracies in loading a tune and then immediately running a dyno if it hasn't had time to adjust?

[Guy_H]

We did a fair bit of testing to try to get a handle on "adaption time" and its tricky, but we could see from Eddy's boost & timing logs that it adapted straight away (he had good fuel) - we let it idle for 15 minutes so I would say it was 100% OK.

Its more the dyno correction factor I would worry about.

Same you couldn't get up to the Brissy Polo Dyno day, we had the operator run through how all those variables & how they work, and how even a week apart, they can be 5 - 10 - 15 - 20% out!

Adaption after a week (adaptaption is constantly happening) would more account for fuel / temperature / altitude (air density) etc... But your dyno results are some of the best controlled ones out there :)

[GT3]

But your dyno results are some of the best controlled ones out there :)

I reckon my results are fairly modest :frown: ..123kw aint earth shattering.

[Guy_H]

I reckon my results are fairly modest :frown: ..123kw aint earth shattering. But the shot-gun blast torque (and plenty of it) definately means one thing, ...the dude who wrote the V2 file qualifies for a bonus :biggrin: ..or at the very least a few cases of Coopers :)

I just spoke to him, he said to give the coopers to me for safe keeping :biggrin:

[Chipped]

Any version2 drivers out there considering goin back to Ver1??? he,he,he

[Jin]

Any version2 drivers out there considering goin back to Ver1??? he,he,he

Had the V2 flashed last week and highly doubt that I will go back to V1. Just love the extra low-mid range power/torque and I dont notice the power dropping off too much above 5000rpm....might have to with the mods that I have though.

[VW GTI]

I just spoke to him, he said to give the coopers to me for safe keeping :biggrin:

Wow, he made great software and let you have the beer. He must be a really top bloke :)

[Kai]

In all seriousness.

If you want to go faster in a straight line and not in a mountain. Is V1 the go?

Obviously for mountains V2 would be better.

[RhysQ]

In all seriousness.

If you want to go faster in a straight line and not in a mountain. Is V1 the go?

Obviously for mountains V2 would be better.

i would have to say in a straight line, as said before by myself and Neil, V2 feels faster! it may not necessarily be faster but the stronger torque pull definitely makes it feel it. also, i seem to be getting up to speed quicker than previous.

[Kai]

I know the GIAC tune is slower then the APR V1 because ive tested it with a mate.

But his car felt faster because of the early torque.

[Whubbsie]

I think we need two people to go to the drags one V1 one V2 to find out for certian. :biggrin:

[GT3]

" Peak power sells cars. High average power wins races. "

This article is a good read (and funny, ie ricer vs redneck :biggrin:):

http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/horsepower

[Chipped]

Considering I very rarely get above 5000rpm on public roads I reckon V2 sounds the go for me even without FMIC and downpipe (yet) suppose they can come later.

[DubSteve]

I know the GIAC tune is slower then the APR V1 because ive tested it with a mate.


Now wheres the popcorn lol :duh:

[RhysQ]

I think we need two people to go to the drags one V1 one V2 to find out for certian. :biggrin:

but then again we have the different driving styles, tyres, fuel etc.

it needs to be the one car.... go to the drags on V1, get V2 installed during the week, and go again the next week with V2. its the only way.

[Flaps]

;223373']it needs to be the one car.... go to the drags on V1, get V2 installed during the week, and go again the next week with V2. its the only way.

For what? .2 or .4 of a second?

So people can say? "My car is faster by .2 of a second over 400m's. I am the best."

[RhysQ]

For what? .2 or .4 of a second?

So people can say? "My car is faster by .2 of a second over 400m's. I am the best."

i ran out of time but i was gonna add.... if it is only a small margin, given the discrepancies of different conditions on different days, it can be called even. it would only be a real claim if the diffrence in V1/V2 times was somewhat significant. even .5sec+ on the drag strip is significant.

anyone know any 150m strips we could use, that would be the real test!

[GT3]

No two cars are identical, ..notice how many base dynos with the same tune vary by 5-8kw. So a V2/GIAC comparison would be inaccurate and frankly, spliting hairs :)

[Kai]

Now wheres the popcorn lol :duh:

I forgot your not allowed to compare tunes on a forum. lawl.

[VW GTI]

No two cars are identical, ..notice how many base dynos with the same tune vary by 5-8kw. So a V2/GIAC comparison would be inaccurate and frankly, spliting hairs :)

I'd say thats more the dyno/dyno operator rather than the cars being that different.

[Bug_racer]

And the APR cost is a lot more than the Giac , is the extra 2-3 kw worth the $300 or so ?


I know the GIAC tune is slower then the APR V1 because ive tested it with a mate.

But his car felt faster because of the early torque.

[VW GTI]

And the APR cost is a lot more than the Giac , is the extra 2-3 kw worth the $300 or so ?

3kw for $300 is a fair bit considering you'd pay up to and beyond $2000 for a full exhaust system that may only gain 5-10kw.

[RhysQ]

And the APR cost is a lot more than the Giac , is the extra 2-3 kw worth the $300 or so ?


3kw for $300 is a fair bit considering you'd pay up to and beyond $2000 for a full exhaust system that may only gain 5-10kw.

what Sam said. if you had that attitude towards every mod, what would happen after about 4-5 major performance mods... you'd be about 10kW behind. why not pay that bit extra for the full performance??

[Bug_racer]

Why bother trying to push every last limit of the KO3s then , why dont you just get a gt28 ? Its cheaper doing it that way !

[VW GTI]

Why bother trying to push every last limit of the KO3s then , why dont you just get a gt28 ? Its cheaper doing it that way !

This is a very good point. Although I wouldn't go to a gt28 unless you could find a way to fit more than 205s (or 215s at a stretch) under the front.

[DubSteve]

This is a very good point. Although I wouldn't go to a gt28 unless you could find a way to fit more than 205s (or 215s at a stretch) under the front.

A LSD and how hard can it be to fit 215s under the front, A friend of mine is mine is running 225s all round on his mk3.

[Guy_H]

MK3 has about 20mm more wheel arch width than a Polo.

205's no rubbing

215's + rubbing

[VW GTI]

A LSD and how hard can it be to fit 215s under the front, A friend of mine is mine is running 225s all round on his mk3.

When my car was delivered it had 225s on it. I couldn't go round a normal 90 degree corner at traffic speed without rubbing. Let alone when I pushed it hard like you would with a gt28.

LSD would help, but I don't think you understand how bad the lack of traction can be even with only 130kw atw.

[DubSteve]

LSD would help, but I don't think you understand how bad the lack of traction can be even with only 130kw atw.

Lack of traction is evident even in the VR already even without the SC kit :duh:

[WHTPOLOGTI]

hi guys. just had my polo gti flashed with APR V2 today. it is awesome. so much power down low. should of done this ages ago. FYI the prices have now gone up due to the weak AUS dollar. i was a few days too late.

[Blitzen]

FYI the prices have now gone up due to the weak AUS dollar. i was a few days too late.

Maybe Guy can help me out with this, but I fail to see how the programs costs have gone up due to the weak Aussie dollar when the program is loaded into the installers computer, and plugged into the car.
If the APR dealers had V2 a few weeks ago, when the dollar was higher still loaded into the same computers, how is the price higher now??
I understand that development comes into the costing(just like anything), and licensing too, but if the product has been developed, tested, then sent out to the prospective franchise owners though out the world, why is the price up now compared to a few weeks ago.

Like I said, this is just a query, but I just don't get it, so please, be gentle.:biggrin:

[Guy_H]

There is no charge for the updates (apart from Labor) - but if you have not noticed, we have dropped over 25% on the US dollar in 8 weeks - That means it is costing us over 25% more to import the products now (and don't forget duties & taxes snowball onto those amounts as well.)

The Polo software was reduced in price in June, unfortunately it has to go back up to its pre June price again :frown:

Hardware (imported) is worse.

[Blitzen]

I can understand why hardware that you import must go up, but I really don't understand why computer software that is already over here must go up in price.

[VW GTI]

Blitzen, the 'owner' of the software is still overseas, meaning whenever a sale is made here, the money would go to APR US - the developers of the software. The difference between software and hardware is Guy would need to pay for the hardware to get it here and then sell it. With software it means they pay for the license when they sell it which means the exchange rate at each sale is always current. Therefore, the price here has to go up because the amount of cash going overseas is larger and they still need their margins.

Guy is APR Australia, which is really just a reseller for APR US.

[Blitzen]

Blitzen, the 'owner' of the software is still overseas, meaning whenever a sale is made here, the money would go to APR US - the developers of the software. The difference between software and hardware is Guy would need to pay for the hardware to get it here and then sell it. With software it means they pay for the license when they sell it which means the exchange rate at each sale is always current. Therefore, the price here has to go up because the amount of cash going overseas is larger and they still need their margins.

Guy is APR Australia, which is really just a reseller for APR US.

Mmmmmm...I'm suppose...I'm still not convinced, but thats not to say that it isn't the truth...I do agree that for the price, the APR tune(and any other tuners for that matter)is awesome bang for its buck...May I'm just being overly tight!!!

[Flaps]

How come the prices of other tuning companies don't go up?

[Golf Houso]

Well, if the $ goes down by 30% and your markup is say 50%, then theoretically the price of complete software software should only go up 15% to keep the same level of profit, hence around a $250 (given software is $1600) rise in cost to maintain the same profit margin.

so are we expecting $1800-$1900 software programs from now on?
What do GIAC and the others charge, don't they start at $1200?

[VW GTI]

Mmmmmm...I'm suppose...I'm still not convinced, but thats not to say that it isn't the truth...I do agree that for the price, the APR tune(and any other tuners for that matter)is awesome bang for its buck...May I'm just being overly tight!!!

It's just what I've found from my work. I do a bit of work for a company in NZ. A few months back when our dollar was killing it the NZ $ was worth nothing. I had to stop quoting in NZD to cover myself, now I always quote in AUD and they either get a good deal or a crap deal depending on the exchange rate at the time. So, their charge out rate for my work needs to accommodate the fluctuation or they'd be changing their rate every day.

[Chipped]

hi guys. just had my polo gti flashed with APR V2 today. it is awesome. so much power down low. should of done this ages ago. FYI the prices have now gone up due to the weak AUS dollar. i was a few days too late.



Hey WhtGTI, do you have any other mods ie: FMIC or exhaust, like to know how it runs on such a car...ie: mine just have V1 loaded no FMIC or exhaust....yet.

[Chipped]

Sorry, didn't explain that well, how does ver2 go on a otherwise un-modded car?

Cheers

[Flaps]

How come the prices of other tuning companies don't go up?

I like it how no one bothered to respond to this.

[VW GTI]

I like it how no one bothered to respond to this.

How come they didn't go down when the dollar went really well for a bit?

Goes both ways.

[Flaps]

Because they were still cheaper?

To me it sounds like APR want to recoup costs lost on all the free V2 upgrades.

[gtimk5]

APR dropped its prices 10% when the dollar was doing well.

[VW GTI]

Because they were still cheaper?

To me it sounds like APR want to recoup costs lost on all the free V2 upgrades.

Well, they wouldn't raise their prices if they didn't lower them.

V2 is only a Polo tune, what about all the others that were lowered and raised? Recouping for what?

[Timbo]

It's a bit harsh to judge based on what suppliers do in response to exchange rate changes. I guess all the Australian suppliers, who are mostly agents of o/s tuners, have to remit a royalty or licence fee with every flash they deliver, and my bet is that fee is denominated in the tuner's home currency, hence exposing the agent when the $A falls relative to the contract denominated currency.

That said, there may be rise and fall provisions in the distribution contract to protect the agent's position, especially in a very competitive market, or if the tuner is trying to establish market share.

The one that irks me most of all are the oil companies -- so fast to increase prices in response to a crude oil price hike; so slow to drop them. And even Kevin '07, with the mighty FuelWatch, can't seem to bring them into line :frown:

[JCM308]

I can understand importers prices slightly following the AUD. I work for an importer but we were smart enough to get forward cover before the plummit. Will have to look at pricing at the end of Dec.:wasntme:

[gerhard]

I guess it's up to the overseas parent whether they are prepared to get less money but keep sales ticking over, or whether they won't budge on pricing and as a result see overseas demand falling.

When it's a software product, you would expect some preparedness to take a little less to keep sales churning over, since the cost of each incremental sale is virtually nil.

When you are selling manufactured goods, the cost of each incremental sale is the same, so there's no point in selling stuff at a loss.

Confusing the issue even more is the fact that many overseas products were costed for sale in AU when the exchange rate was .55c a few years ago. Many of these products did not reduce in price when the rate went to .80, let alone to .97. Now some of those same products are being marked up due to the decline, even though they were never marked down in the good times.

[philthy]

I like it how no one bothered to respond to this.

Thats cos pretty much everyone commenting in this thread has an APR tune...

I'm completely impartial as my polo is stock (for now:biggrin:)

[Blitzen]

I bought up the question in the first place as I couldn't see(and still fail to see) how APR(AS A WHOLE) can justify raising the price of a COMPUTER TUNE that is already in their computers over here in Oz. It isn't like they are are importing an Exhaust System to sell on over here, or a Turbo Upgrade. The Produce is already here.
I'm not talking about Guys workshop, I am Talking about how APR as a whole can decide to up the price on software, when the product has been here for a few weeks before the Aust $ began to fall in a bad way.
Don't get my wrong on this, I do like APR and their advice that has been give to me in the past, but I am just not convinced on the reason behind the price hike.

[VW GTI]

I bought up the question in the first place as I couldn't see(and still fail to see) how APR(AS A WHOLE) can justify raising the price of a COMPUTER TUNE that is already in their computers over here in Oz. It isn't like they are are importing an Exhaust System to sell on over here, or a Turbo Upgrade. The Produce is already here.
I'm not talking about Guys workshop, I am Talking about how APR as a whole can decide to up the price on software, when the product has been here for a few weeks before the Aust $ began to fall in a bad way.
Don't get my wrong on this, I do like APR and their advice that has been give to me in the past, but I am just not convinced on the reason behind the price hike.

That's funny.

Adobe software released today is downloaded off the internet. The price in US$ is the same every day, the Australian price for a particular product has gone from $2600 to $2890 and back down to around $2600... IN 3 DAYS.

Your comments sound to me like you've never studied any sort of economics or business subjects.

[Guy_H]

Hey Blitzen,

I think you have the wrong idea about the software,

The software is loaded into your Polo from a server in the USA, it records your VIN number that allows you free reburns & upgrades.

Then we get the bill for your car in US dollars from the US - its pretty simple, no software is here, its not stored here, nor is there a "local copy" of it.

In essence its just like importing anything - we pay in USD.

As GTImkv pointed out above, the price of software was reduced back in June when the dollar hit 90 cents US - it was a 10% reduction.

As an example, this week - Motul oil & brake fluid went up in price from the importer. BMC Airboxes went up in price. KW suspension went up in price. H&R suspension went up in price. Nismo tuning products went up in price. Snap on tools had a price rise. Trade tools has an across the board price rise.

They are just the Automotive people that emailed / contacted us & told us of their price rises, and that was just this week.

Our rep from Burson Autoparts said that there will be an increase in price of between 10 - 25% across their entire imported range, oils, fluids, tools, spare parts.

If the dollar stays like this (hope it doesn't) - expect to see more of it.

[Blitzen]

Your comments sound to me like you've never studied any sort of economics or business subjects.

Nah, not really...Building and blowing stuff up had always kept my mind interested more than numbers. I would rather work with my hands and ride drive and command Armoured Vehicles than drive a desk and stare at a screen 30cm in front of my face, but thats just me.


Cheers for that Guy...You have cleared that right up for me.

Much appreciated.

[Guy_H]

No probs Blitzen, you are getting closer to us, so I'm sure we will catch up soon.

Have been to townsville a couple of times for tuning trips!

[Blitzen]

No probs Blitzen, you are getting closer to us, so I'm sure we will catch up soon.

Have been to townsville a couple of times for tuning trips!

I will get there one day!! Hahahaha...Apparently, work is flat out at the moment...Or, thats what they keep telling me!!

[VW GTI]

Nah, not really...Building and blowing stuff up had always kept my mind interested more than numbers. I would rather work with my hands and ride drive and command Armoured Vehicles than drive a desk and stare at a screen 30cm in front of my face, but thats just me.

Seems like you took my comment negatively... I was just saying, you were accusing them of doing something dodgy on a public forum but you don't have any knowledge on the details or the theory behind it. Fair enough ask a question, but don't accuse just because it doesn't sound right.

I hate accounting/economics too, they're boring.

[Blitzen]

Seems like you took my comment negatively... I was just saying, you were accusing them of doing something dodgy on a public forum but you don't have any knowledge on the details or the theory behind it. Fair enough ask a question, but don't accuse just because it doesn't sound right.

I hate accounting/economics too, they're boring.

I didn't mean for me to make them sound like they were doing something dodgy, I never thought that, but it appears that I was ill informed on how the programming was transferred, but Its all explained now, so I'm all sorted.

[h100vw]

I like it how no one bothered to respond to this.

I'll reply to you.

Custom-Code deals it's software on a credit basis. The agent, wherever in the world, buys credits from the UK in Sterling.

Each flash has a price built in, eg a MK5 GTI would be 450 credits, MK4 is 350, a stage 3 is 650.

When you flash an ECU, the program deducts credit from the cable. I have credit on my cable that was bought in May, as I don't flash loads of cars. When that runs out, I'll have to re-assess my prices.

The goods news is that C-C are running a 20% discount worldwide, I pass the majority of this onto the customer.

Gavin

[Chipped]

Just had my V2 APR ECU upgrade courtesy of Quattro Motors here in the wild, wild, west.
Initially VERY happy, the power/acceleration band has definately moved lower...but you've heard it all before...I love it, will give it a good go on the way home, but so far with street driving I don't need take off after 5000rpm.
Surely 0-100k would be faster with V2 as others have said..it feels like it.
I have heard also the the APR R1 diverter valve would work well with this upgrade...can someone advise on this??

Thanks

[Blue9N3]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but how do I tell which version of the tune I have? I've bought a 2006 gti which had the tune done in late 2013. Tried pm'ing guy but his inbox is full.


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[Guy_H]

If done in late 2013 - its the current version :) - old versions are long gone from the server.

If you want to confirm & don't have your owners manual, you can pay your APR dealer to reprogram or check - will take 30 - 60 minutes to do.

[STI65]

I had the trial tune loaded over 2 years ago but never went ahead with it because my circumstance at the time. Since then the car has been chewing fuel...and I do not drive it like I stole it. I am now considering a tune again.

[h100vw]

I had the trial tune loaded over 2 years ago but never went ahead with it because my circumstance at the time. Since then the car has been chewing fuel...and I do not drive it like I stole it. I am now considering a tune again.

I doubt that's down to the trial software. Have you had the car looked at for faults? There's a few that won't put a CEL on.

Gavin

[STI65]

It has had a some lately. I had to replace an oxygen sensor. That is now fixed but the light came back on for another fault. My mechanic is not sure what it is but says it isn't too worrying. Hopefully that gets sorted soon. This has happened in the last 2 months. The fuel usage has been bad for over 2 years.

[h100vw]

Is he a VW/Euro guy?

[STI65]

He works on everything.

[Blue9N3]

Guy, Current version as in V2? Or are we at V a million now? ;)


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[DeanB]

I probably should get mine upgraded to V1 ... I'm 99% sure that's what I've got on there.

[Guy_H]

Guy, Current version as in V2? Or are we at V a million now? ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depends on ECU part number but I'm pretty sure v2.0 is current :)

[Blue9N3]

I seem to be losing power over time, resetting the tune (going to standard and then back to the 98 tune) seems to fix the problem. Am I imagining the loss of power or is it really happening?? No missing/ CEL / anything.

Checked the receipts and I have v2


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[h100vw]

[QUOTE=Blue9N3;1125505]I seem to be losing power over time, resetting the tune (going to standard and then back to the 98 tune) seems to fix the problem. Am I imagining the loss of power or is it really happening?? No missing/ CEL / anything.

Checked the receipts and I have v2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUO

Have it scanned for faults and check the fuel trims.

Gavin

[kaanage]

I seem to be losing power over time, resetting the tune (going to standard and then back to the 98 tune) seems to fix the problem. Am I imagining the loss of power or is it really happening?? No missing/ CEL / anything.

Ben (noone) had the same impression

[noone]

As did Bfeboi (years ago). At the 1 dyno day we went to, he pulled a lot more torque than I did. He reset his before the dyno, I hadn't.

The solution; Custom Code. It sucks to pay for something twice, but its cheap for what you get and is a noticeable upgrade from APR with the mods I had.

FYI, V2 is not stage 2, from memory there was a second version of the stage 1, their other option was to bypass the 02 sensor for an upgraded exhaust, but not a re-tune to suit.

APR make good tunes, but the tune for the Polo was conservative (IMO) for how strong the 1.8T and K03 can be. with a dump pipe, upgraded intake section and FMIC, CC is your best bet.

Also, Gav is very good to deal with, so support is just easy.

If I was in QLD, he would have tuned my S3.

[Blue9N3]

Gav,

No codes, fuel trim at -2.3% (same since reset), timing goes to +35 and the drops back to ~5 at full boost?

Noone, you're probably right but I am curious to see what is causing the loss of power, is it an apr thing or Is something wrong with my car? Ie misfire, bad fuel pump .. Or am I just imagining it all!

Hoping that GuyH could shed some light here.


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[h100vw]

You should take a set of logs before and after a reset. You'll have something to compare then. Timing is always retarded during boost so the numbers don't mean much in isolation.

Gavin

[Guy_H]

Gav,

No codes, fuel trim at -2.3% (same since reset), timing goes to +35 and the drops back to ~5 at full boost?

Noone, you're probably right but I am curious to see what is causing the loss of power, is it an apr thing or Is something wrong with my car? Ie misfire, bad fuel pump .. Or am I just imagining it all!

Hoping that GuyH could shed some light here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothing sounds amiss & as mentioned by several other you need good data logs. Ambient & intake temperatures are two factors which always have to be taken into consideration when looking at the data. You can also look at your air mass - but the fuel trims will be a give away (as mentioned) of something out of whack.

Depending on your service history, when we are doing a 10 year old Polo (or any other 10 year old car), we recommend the following items be checked & replaced as a maintenance thing to ensure your software will work as intended.

Compression test
Boost hose condition test (look for oil softening) including all vacuum lines.
Air Mass Meter
Coolant Temperature sensor
Plugs (with correct gaps)


So often these days we find these items have deteriorated to a point where the car is far from optimal - tuned or not!

[Blue9N3]

Thanks Guy. So in other words, the apr tune doesn't normally "lose'power" unless something is amiss. Will do a bit of googling to work out how to check the afm and coolant temp
Sensor


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[h100vw]

You could measure the temp sensor with a multimeter but TBH VCDS is the way to go and it can see the MAF output too.

I have had a few MAFs that work one day and not the next. That's not a green light to replace it though before testing.

Gavin

[seangti]

Is your diverter valve all good? Not running the factory one still are you? The N75 died quite recently on my silver polo, though it's a huge difference in power, from having some to none, initially it was intermittent.

Gav/Guy, would it also be worth to log the requested and actual boost values??

[h100vw]

I'd do fuelling, boost and timing.

002, 031, 099
003, 020, 022
003, 115, 118.

This captures everything you need to see what's going on.

032, 111 for fuel trims.

Gavin

[Blue9N3]

Gav, might need to use something better than dashcommand for the logging ....

Sean, consistently Getting 1.2 bar so the n75 must be ok, but not always the power. Hard to explain, seems flat sometimes. Seems to point to either timing or leaking dv perhaps? Have a forge diverter lying around which I'll give a go.


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[h100vw]

If the DV is leaking boost will change.

Do you have an intercooler? My guess is heat soak. I don't know anything about dash command, I only use VCDS. There'll be someone nearby with a lead.

If the intake temps go out, it'll pull timing and go "flat". Most turbo cars are like it if you get stuck in traffic and then out into the open road. First couple of KM gets the heat out of the IC.

Gavin

[Blue9N3]

Good point about dv. No intercooler upgrade, only mods are intake pipe and apr.

Incidentally, are misfires always violent or can would they just feel like a slight loss of power? (Flat)


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[h100vw]

Good point about dv. No intercooler upgrade, only mods are intake pipe and apr.

Incidentally, are misfires always violent or can would they just feel like a slight loss of power? (Flat)


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A misfire could be subtle.

Also, do you have multiple programs, 98 and 95 octane?

Certainly the intercooler could become soaked pretty quick and if intake temps jumped way up the ECU would pull timing like crazy.

VCDS when it's good and bad is the best way to see what's what.

Gavin

[Guy_H]

Is your diverter valve all good? Not running the factory one still are you? The N75 died quite recently on my silver polo, though it's a huge difference in power, from having some to none, initially it was intermittent.

Gav/Guy, would it also be worth to log the requested and actual boost values??

Any good data will help you.


A misfire could be subtle.

Also, do you have multiple programs, 98 and 95 octane?

Certainly the intercooler could become soaked pretty quick and if intake temps jumped way up the ECU would pull timing like crazy.

VCDS when it's good and bad is the best way to see what's what.

Gavin

As Gav says., heatsoak is the #1 enemy and you can go screaming past 90C intake temps really quickly with the poor little Polo's side mount. It would have to have the worse intercooler fitted to a turbo VW in the last 15 years!

[HAR80N]

Hello i was wondering if the APR K04 map could be ran on a stage 2 polo full exhaust intake fmic

[h100vw]

I doubt it, the airflow from a K04 is substantially different to a K03s.

[HAR80N]

Hello is it possible to replace my apr stage 1 ecu with a stock ecu so i can sell it and get a custom code stage 2 tune will the apr stage 1 ecu work in other polos thxz

[h100vw]

I can flash over the APR, you can get a spare ECU but the immobilisers need fixing. I can do that but at least one car will need to be off the road while I do it.

Your ECU will work in another car if you sort the immobiliser.

Gavin

[Blue9N3]

This is going back a few posts, but what happens if the coolant temp sensor plays up? (Assuming the thermostat is ok)


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[h100vw]

Incorrect information into the ECU will prevent it from running the engine correctly.

ie low temp input might prevent it from ever leaving the cold start cycle, there by using more fuel. Engine temp can be seen in measuring blocks with VCDS.

Gavin

[Wiffle]

Incorrect information into the ECU will prevent it from running the engine correctly.

ie low temp input might prevent it from ever leaving the cold start cycle, there by using more fuel. Engine temp can be seen in measuring blocks with VCDS.

Gavin

This is a bit interesting; some days my PoG takes 10-15mins for the temp gauge to reach full running temp (90deg), whilst others it takes literally 4 mins. I mentioned it to my mechanic and he seemed to think it was all fine, but doesn't quite seem right to me. Any thoughts?

[h100vw]

Could be a intermittently sticky thermostat or just different driving conditions. Mine is pretty quick normally. Especially if on a clear road at 80kmh. Rolling to school with the kids is different.