Help Mkv Oiler is sick!

[Mkv TDI]

Hi Guys,
I've been a reader of these forums for some time but this is my first post. I have a Mkv 2ltr TDI Comfortline 2005 which I bought second hand in October last year. The car has been a real pleasure to own and drive up until Thursday afternoon.:frown:
I pulled out of a shopping centre car park onto a priority road (briskly to get into a gap in traffic but not too quickly), when I went for a gearchange into second (manual) there was a metallic pinging noise from the front of the car (still had foot on clutch) and I thought maybe the clutch had blown or I had gearbox problems but second did engage. The problem being that the engine had very little power wouldn't accelerate and huge volumes of white smoke were billowing from the rear:eek:. I pulled over as soon as I could get off the major road (approx. 100 metres) and shut her down, there was a burning smell (like burnt oil). After a couple of minutes I tried starting her again but she ran even worse and still smoked really badly. I checked the oil and it didn't show on the dipstick:eek: (has just ticked over 79k serviced at 77k) so I walked to a petrol station and bought 1 litre of oil, put it in (now appeared on bottom of dipstick) and tried to restart her but she wouldn't turn over (battery is fine).
I got her towed to a mechanic who has started to investigate. He's found more than a litre of oil in the intercooler hoses and now suspects that the cylinders may be full of oil (from the turbo?) causing compression lock and stopping the engine from turning over. He thinks I've got turbo issues and isn't sure about the engine but reckons I should now take it up with Volkswagen as the car is only just out of warranty.

Anyone ever heard of problems like this with a TDI before? Could a turbo seal have blown and filled the engine with oil causing it to compression lock?

[Tim]

hopefully not something like this!

http://golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57784

[Mkv TDI]

hopefully not something like this!

http://golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57784

Thanks for the reply Tim, is does look scaringly familiar! I guess I'll find out next week :frown:

[gldgti]

sounds bad mate.

white smoke - steam? or burning oil as you thought. did it loose coolant?

its possible that the turbo has failed massively and started leaking lots of oil into the intake... could definately be the problem.

i hope it doesnt cost you too much. most importantly, i hope you havnt bent a rod due to compression lock if the cylinders got really full.

luck to you,

aydan

[Mkv TDI]

sounds bad mate.

white smoke - steam? or burning oil as you thought. did it loose coolant?

its possible that the turbo has failed massively and started leaking lots of oil into the intake... could definately be the problem.

i hope it doesnt cost you too much. most importantly, i hope you havnt bent a rod due to compression lock if the cylinders got really full.

luck to you,

aydan

Yeh, Hi Aydan, it hasn't lost coolant, no water in oil or oil in water that I can see and the smell was like burning oil so I think the oil was getting into the intake in large volumes and being burnt off.

[Greg Roles]

Sounds like you've done your turbo, either a bearing ( best case ) or sheared the shaft ( not as pretty ). Depending on the repair bill, your best bet may be a complete new turbo, once you get a prognosis.

Sad to hear, sounds like no fun at all!

[Mischa]

if you need parts call brian at gti imports he's the man 96531114 or 0429208713 tell him michael with the mk1 mk2 and mk5 sent you :P

[Mkv TDI]

:duh: The verdict is in, the local Volkswagen Dealership reckon the turbo has blown and needs replacing along with the intercooler and the front and rear exhaust including the catalytic converter, it and the exhaust are swamped and contaminated with oil. Why would you need to replace your exhaust? The cat maybe but surely you could wash out the exhaust with a solvent (or at least the straight pipes?).

They do not believe the motor is damaged but until they get a new turbo on it they won't know!! So it's a case of suck it and see.

Anyway the price to supply and fit a new turbo, intercooler and exhaust is $8972!!! :eek: Does this amount seem right to you guys?

This dealership (John Hughes Volkswagen) are not interested in helping out in any way as the car is 3 months out of warranty. Too bad that a volkswagen turbo has detonated with only 79,000km on the clock with no explanation, it's out of warranty so I'm on my own. They even went as far as to say the car has had several owners (they later conceded that I was only the second) and that either one of us could have been using Bio Diesel (I only use BP Ultimate diesel). Then they suggested that the car had not been regularly serviced stating that it hadn't been serviced since 54,000k! After arguing with them they conceded that they had in fact performed a major service at 54,000k and that they had a record of when I phoned up about the 70k service when they recommended leaving it until 75,000km!

I sincerely hope that all VW turbo owners don't suffer the same fate as myself where your turbo dies a few months outside of the warranty period because it makes a Golf TDI a very expensive car to own and certainly negates the potential fuel savings that you might make over an extended period.

Personally, even if the motor is ok, how can I have faith in the next turbo or any other part of the car for that matter? This is my third turbo car, I've had a Mazda and still own a Toyota both with far more K's than the golf (the Toyota is a 93 model) and I've had no turbo issues whatsoever before this.
It leaves a very bad taste in your mouth :(

[Tim]

I would contact VW direct. Sometimes they are willing to help out customers who have had their warranty recently expire. Worth a try anyways

[Mischa]

thats a very hard number to stomache i feel for you :( but please whatever you do DONT GET IT FIXED BY A DEALERSHIP. go to an independent vw specialist workshop. and if you like your money i would give brian a call (2 posts up) for the supply of the parts. why not go to an aftermarket exhaust and intercooler while you're at it? intercooler and all piping can be done for around 1k and if you're lucky you could get the exhaust and all parts done for about 1500. then you've got 6.5k left from the dealership quote to have a new turbo installed.

[gldgti]

:duh: The verdict is in, the local Volkswagen Dealership reckon the turbo has blown and needs replacing along with the intercooler and the front and rear exhaust including the catalytic converter, it and the exhaust are swamped and contaminated with oil. Why would you need to replace your exhaust? The cat maybe but surely you could wash out the exhaust with a solvent (or at least the straight pipes?).

They do not believe the motor is damaged but until they get a new turbo on it they won't know!! So it's a case of suck it and see.

Anyway the price to supply and fit a new turbo, intercooler and exhaust is $8972!!! :eek: Does this amount seem right to you guys?

This dealership (John Hughes Volkswagen) are not interested in helping out in any way as the car is 3 months out of warranty. Too bad that a volkswagen turbo has detonated with only 79,000km on the clock with no explanation, it's out of warranty so I'm on my own. They even went as far as to say the car has had several owners (they later conceded that I was only the second) and that either one of us could have been using Bio Diesel (I only use BP Ultimate diesel). Then they suggested that the car had not been regularly serviced stating that it hadn't been serviced since 54,000k! After arguing with them they conceded that they had in fact performed a major service at 54,000k and that they had a record of when I phoned up about the 70k service when they recommended leaving it until 75,000km!

I sincerely hope that all VW turbo owners don't suffer the same fate as myself where your turbo dies a few months outside of the warranty period because it makes a Golf TDI a very expensive car to own and certainly negates the potential fuel savings that you might make over an extended period.

Personally, even if the motor is ok, how can I have faith in the next turbo or any other part of the car for that matter? This is my third turbo car, I've had a Mazda and still own a Toyota both with far more K's than the golf (the Toyota is a 93 model) and I've had no turbo issues whatsoever before this.
It leaves a very bad taste in your mouth :(

and rightly so i imagine.

you are right about the catalytic converter being cactus, and its possible the rear muff would also be ruined. keep in mind however that a brand new factory exhaust is BIG$$$$$ and this will be a significant part of your repair bill. it is certainly worth considering a new exhaust from somewhere else.

the turbo you are probably best sourcing from vw. these new VNT's appear to be prone to problems and it seems that people like you are copping the brunt of it, unfortunately.

as to the intercooler, etc etc etc - its very difficult to get all this stuff fixed anywhere but at VW - all the same, i'm sure you could fix the car for less somey by sourcing parts from aftermarket suppliers and doing work yourself. its easy for me to say...

still thinking on this..

[cetane]

DONT GET IT FIXED BY A DEALERSHIP. go to an independent vw specialist workshop.
I have to agree.

I reckon this unfortunate event has scared we TDI owners badly and has certainly made me consider extended warranty more seriously.

In your position, the advice to go to an independent VW workshop is good as the dealers cover themselves by replacing absolutely everything that could possibly be implicated in the failure. There is no negotiation as they have to cover their asses no matter what. You need is a repairer who loves VWs, cares about people as well as profits and will look at your case with compassion. From what you've told us the dealer has none of these desirable attributes.

[Logzy]

Write a letter to VW Australia explaining the situation.

[anthony]

I have allready deceided that when my new car warranty on the Jetta expires in 14 months time,I will either update,or take out an extended warranty.
Was at South Yarra VW on Monday to get a new key,and was told that a VW 3 year warranty is approximatly 1800 dollars,well worth it in my opinion for that extra peace of mind.

[gldgti]

Write a letter to VW Australia explaining the situation.

so they can laugh at him while licking their lips at the thought of good clean profits?

[Greg Roles]

As said, that sucks.

You will be able to get it fixed for about half that if you do the legwork. No way I'd put a stock exhaust back on, aftermarket would be far less expensive, especially if you source a secondhand cat for example, and if you want way better.

There has to be a VW turbo around a wrecker, on e-bay UK / germany, and as for an intercooler, I'd be pressure testing / degreasing what you have unless there is a lot of the turbo wheel etc missing meaning it's been sucked into the intercooler.

The best idea apart from talking to VW direct is to get some recommendations of good VW shops in your area from members here, and I'd be getting a quote from a euro aftermarket repairer with a good name, such as what Misch has pointed out.

Genuine parts ALWAYS cost a fortune, and the majority who are unaware pay them.

One thing running an inlet pod on my Golf has taught me is the compressor goes into a surge sound under low rev load circumstances more often that you'd probably like, and I do my best to avoid it actually!

Still very sad to hear a stock turbo on the 103kw motor going caput.

[VW Convert]

so they can laugh at him while licking their lips at the thought of good clean profits?

I'm not sure that is how they would see it. In my experience with major automotive companies, where a reasonable request is made in such circumstances the company often views these claims favourably. That the car was purchased second hand is not in your favour but that it is only 3 months out of warranty is, other factors such as service history would be taken into consideration. What is disappointing is that the dealer is not prepared to make representations on your behalf despite being the servicing dealer. Was the car purchased from that dealer?

I would write immediately a concise and courteous but to the point letter to VW and I would mention that you are aware (via internet forums) that there have been other such cases with TDI engines (whether in or out of warranty). I would be making it clear that this type of failure at such low kilometres is not what would be viewed in the automotive industry as a reasonable situation. You may be surprised with the result, I'm sure that VWA are aware that a happy customer may tell one person but an unhappy customer will tell 1,000 and the bad publicity that could potentially be generated by a $9,000 repair bill on a low mileage car could outweigh the cost to cover the warranty.

BTW my current position requires me to present such cases from time to time to one of the major automotive manufacturers so I am saying this from experience.

Cheers

George

[mr_walker]

I would write immediately a concise and courteous but to the point letter to VW...

I'm with George on this one. You can only try.

Years ago my Magna had an ECU failure 2-3 months out of warranty, and I was staring at a hefty repair bill. Mitsubishi decided to contribute the parts, and I only had to pay labour. You just never know.

BTW - out of all the letters people talk about writing to VW, has anybody here done so and had a response?

Now being the proud owner of 2 x TDI's, this sort of thing makes me very nervous :frown: Good luck mate, and I hope it works out for you.

Cheers,

Walker

[VW Convert]

I'm with George on this one. You can only try.

Years ago my Magna had an ECU failure 2-3 months out of warranty, and I was staring at a hefty repair bill. Mitsubishi decided to contribute the parts, and I only had to pay labour. You just never know.

BTW - out of all the letters people talk about writing to VW, has anybody here done so and had a response?

Now being the proud owner of 2 x TDI's, this sort of thing makes me very nervous :frown: Good luck mate, and I hope it works out for you.

Cheers,

Walker

And in this era of massively improved communication, i.e. Internet forums etc. VWA would be very aware that issues like this get into the public domain very easily. This is the consumers greatest weapon.

Cheers

George

[Mkv TDI]

Thank you all for your inspiring responses, it's great to be a part of such a helpful forum community and it reminds me of why I enjoy car forums such as this one so much.

I'll keep you posted as to how things develop.

[Mister_duck]

Thats not very good news about your car,
Wonder how other many Tdi's have had problems with turbo's and engine problems.

I had the turbo, engine, full exhaust on my 07 tdi replaced under warranty, and also the thermostat and watercooler also replaced the following week .

Not sure exactly what the total repair bill would have been for my car including the parts, labour, 4 trips on the back of the towtruck.

No problems as yet with car, everything seems to be running fine, and i seem to be getting a bit better fuel consumption even though the engine is still quite new

[gldgti]

i suppose its worth a try... well it certainly is - and i wish you the best of luck.

[GoLfMan]

best of luck with it all mate, as a fellow TDI owner this scares me somewhat.
keep us posted

[jets]

Heres another story of a turbo failure.[1.9TDI]
http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=128&mforum=dutchaussie