A/C & P/S delete & Serpentine Belt Thread

[Peter Jones]

I thought I'd kick off a new thread to capture this info. There's a few little gems of wisdom dotted around the forums but it's hard to join all the dots at the moment.

Here's my first contribution. What we're going to do here is in preparation to to put a 2.0L (2E motor) bottom end into a MK1.

Most MK3s , the source of this motor, have power steering and air conditioning pumps, neither of which are usually required in a Mk 1. To do this they run a ribbed belt called the serpentine belt and a V belt. Both belts are driven off the Crankshaft. The serpentine belt drives the Alternator and the A/C compressor. The V Belt drives the Water Pump and the power steering pump.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310738-1.jpg

Now, to put a MK3 motor into a MK1 you could just use all the MK1 v belt pulleys and alternator. (The water pump may have to be changed too.). The advantage of keeping a serpentine belt setup are many.

Easy to Change Belt
90 Amp alternator (instead of 35 or 50)
Automatic tensioner
More robust mounting mechanism for alternator
EtcSo let's get started.

Remove these bits.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310742-1.jpg

We're going to need one of these to drive the water pump. It's a water pump pulley off a VR6 Mk 3 Golf. I got this one from GAP http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Golf/Cooling/162/4

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310741-1.jpg

First of all I'm looking for alignment of this pulley to the existing belt. As you can see in the next few shots it works out to bee a little too far inset. I'm going to need to make a spacer.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310743-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310744-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310745-2.jpg

[Peter Jones]

May as well remove the power steering pump and compressor at this point.

Off with the belt

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310747-1.jpg

and off with the a/c and p/s

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310749-1.jpg

Now, back to that spacer, by the looks of things only about 2 - 3mm is required. Rather than get too complicated here I decided the easiest way to make the sapcer was the cut the centre out of the no longer required p/s pulley. This pulley has the same bolt pattern as the water pump and the same sized locating hole in the centre.

(Professionals feel free to be horrified at my choice of tooling here)

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310751-2.jpg

and dressing the edge with a more apropriate tool.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310752-2.jpg

Another test fit. Note here I'm also trying to work out how long the new belt has to be. More on that later.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310755-1.jpg

Offset looking good now. Could be about 1mm further offset to be perfectly central, but now the belt is squarely on the flat of the new pulley.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310756-2.jpg

[Peter Jones]

Time to go belt shopping!

I cut the old belt and marked it at the extremes of the adjuster range to work out the minimum and maximum lengths it could be.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310761-1.jpg

Armed with this I stopped in at Autobarn (It was on my way when running some other errands) and thouroughly confused a 16 year old girl behind the counter. OK perhaps not the best place to ask.

Repco was a few doors down the road and were a lot more switched on.

Here's the missing part of the equation.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310762-2.jpg

Just so there's no doubt.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310763-1.jpg

6PK is the same profile as the original belt. The other part of the code is the length in mm. The original is 6PK1153 and the new one is 6PK1035, 118mm shorter.

Working backwards from this, this belt is to suit the new Mini and the Lexus es300 should anyone need another way to reference the part number.

GAP is showing this part 6K x 1033 http://www.germanautoparts.com/beta/Mini/2003/R50/B2/9310/5785607 which should do the trick, and for only US$14.24 rather than the AU$41 repco charged me.
Their verison is 2mm shorter, which will work fine. It's a contitech part too, which is the same as OEM Golf.

And here it is all fitted up.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310765-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310766-1.jpg

Hope this helps.

Pete

[Mrk_Mickey]

Even for someone like me with little knowledge in this field I understood everything:) Nice write-up Pete!

[jayjay]

wow... that's really clever. :D nice work!

i just used a really crappy old A/C compressor as a tensioner.. so that's where all my power's going..? :rolleyes:

[DVR68U]

nice write up pete, its a shame it cant be worked to have more belt area on the waterpump, if that gets wet i think its gunna slip pretty bad. lets hope not tho.
cheers brenton

[mollins]

nice one pete... just did a serp setup on my mk1 engine too.. did it differently to you, but ill post up here when its finished to add to the knowledge base!

love your work!

mike

[GoLfMan]

you used a drill as a boring bar!!!! :o:o:o horrified doesnt even cover it j:

nice work mate :)

[Peter Jones]

you used a drill as a boring bar!!!! :o:o:o horrified doesnt even cover it j:

nice work mate :)


The drill bit wasn't used for this job, it was there from something I did previously, it was the tool I was reffering to:) That one has a triangular tip which isn't so good for parting off. I changed to a parting off tool after this photo.

Maybe you should bring me up to speed on the basics one day.

Pete

[Golf Loon]

Nice write up Pete. I have the same setup in the Caddy and your accurate belt measuring could have saved me 3 trips to Bursons!

[Peter Jones]

Nice write up Pete. I have the same setup in the Caddy and your accurate belt measuring could have saved me 3 trips to Bursons!

Exactly why I'd thought I'd addit to the group wisdom. Is your belt the same part number?

Pete

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Nice work Pete! Great to see some mods like this so well documented. I to have done the conversion but took the easy way and bought a set of three alloy pulleys off ebay motors USA for $65 plus shipping. You need a carbide inserted face grooving tool for sure!

[Peter Jones]

Nice work Pete! Great to see some mods like this so well documented. I to have done the conversion but took the easy way and bought a set of three alloy pulleys off ebay motors USA for $65 plus shipping. You need a carbide inserted face grooving tool for sure!

I see what you mean, a quick search came up with these couple of items.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/ada6_1-2.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-Golf-Jetta-1-8T-Pulley-Kit-2-0L-99-5-03-Volkswagen_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38656QQihZ00 9QQitemZ190246291601QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayph otohosting

Addicted2Racing
This auction is for a BRAND NEW LIGHT WEIGHT BILLET ALUMINUM 3 PIECE PULLEY KIT (Exact weight 1.3lbs). Perfect Replacement for Factory Crank, Power Steering, Alternator Pulley. Fits Volkswagen Golf/Jetta 1.8T Turbo DOHC 20V & 2.0L SOHC 8V 99.5-03.


Strong light weight billet T6061 aluminum
Grade A+ quality
Weighs less then 1 lbs per pulley, total exact weight is 1.3 lbs
Revs faster and accelerate your car faster
3x pulleys included
Direct Bolt on, Installation Instructions and Belt Size available (please seek professionals if you need help)
Will need to replace old belt
And this little Gem which would simply replace the a/c compressor in a stock setup.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/48cd_1-2.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-A-C-Bypass-Delete-Pulley-For-VW-Passat-Golf-Jetta_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33543QQihZ024QQit emZ370079199856QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotoho sting

There's a range of underdrive pulleys too, but I'd only run those in constant high RPM applications like a dedicated race car. Would need to put some thought into water pump rpm and cavitation issues.

Pete

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Thats the pulleys Pete! Great buy dont you think, they are very nicely machined and a perfect fit.

[Peter Jones]

Thats the pulleys Pete! Great buy dont you think, they are very nicely machined and a perfect fit.

Yeah, very nice, I might have to grab a set for my next project!

I like that the water pump pulley is ribbed and the lower weight must be a good thing.

Pete

[GoLfMan]

Maybe you should bring me up to speed on the basics one day.

Pete

anytime just give us a hollah :)

[mollins]

i thought id just link to the serp setup that will be going on my mk1.

Uses a 1.9TDI crank pulley with the TDI/VR6 waterpump pulley and an alternator setup from some of the overseas mk3's without aircon

this is way more expensive (and less impressive) than pete's DIY option, but seeing as I had to clear the injector pump on my TDI, it was my only option other than to go back to a v-belt

info and pics here (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?p=210394#post210394)

[INA]

The issue with the ebay pulleys is that alot of teeth are not really "in sync" or filed down after they are machined.Once completed the rough machined parts are put in boxes and shipped to the customers.
Reality is you get what you pay for...

With mine you will see that the pulleys are machined,then smoothed so that the teeth dont bite the belts then anodized....

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/12/DSCN3208new-1.jpg

[ozgti]

Could you not go with the MK3 alternator setup? I'm about to do this on my MK2 1.8 gti but need a crank pulley (and Ideally a ramp!). The aleternator sits on a bracket that comes off the waterpump bracket. There's a link on Ed 38

http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=203338

I just scrounged this off a mk3 Vento and will be replacing the pump as mine's leaking a header tank a day from it! Not good when the weather's bad.

[Peter Jones]

Umm didn't I do that on page 1 of this thread?

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310765-1.jpg
Pete


Could you not go with the MK3 alternator setup? I'm

about to do this on my MK2 1.8 gti but need a crank pulley (and Ideally a ramp!). The aleternator sits on a bracket that comes off the waterpump bracket. There's a link on Ed 38

http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=203338

I just scrounged this off a mk3 Vento and will be replacing the pump as mine's leaking a header tank a day from it! Not good when the weather's bad.

[Peter Jones]

Ahh, OK, I see what's going on.:duh:

Some of the local MK 3 1800 CLs came without a/c and got that bracket but there's not many of those about. The a/c version above is far more common.


Pete

[ozgti]

Kinda, I think.

The setup i've got has the alternator with a spring under it to tension the belt. How come yours has a seperate tensioner?

From memory (it is almost 2am here) the alternator sits closer to the water pump than your setup ie lower.

[ozgti]

Ahhh..

oops, beat me to it!

lol

[Peter Jones]

See above:)

Almost every MK3 model here came with airconditioning, so those brackets are like hen's teeth in these parts. I didn't realise you were posting from the UK.

Pete

[ozgti]

If you want, I can find out how much to ship a few of these to Oz? there's qite a few in the local scrappy.

[Peter Jones]

Thanks, I'm sure a few would take you up on the offer but we'd need the alternator too and shipping rates on that sort of weight from the UK to Australia are notoriously expensive, hence the local innovations:)

Be sure to pop up a few pics when you're done so we can see how your solution all fits together.

Pete

[Water Boy]

Mine has no AC :biggrin:

[ozgti]

To remove the crank pulley, is it just the 4 allen head bolts or is it the HUUUGE bolt as well?

Went to get a pulley from a scrapper and the pulley wouldn't come off!

[Peter Jones]

I'm pretty sure it's just the 4 bolts. I'll take a look tonight.

Pete

[ozgti]

Cheers.

Did you put your bolts back in?

[Peter Jones]

Yep, but I had to use shorter ones because I removed the V belt pulley.

Pete

[Peter Jones]

Here's how it all prettied up, just before installation.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/10/P1310889-1.jpg

[ozgti]

Nice.

I'll be doing mine in situ, so fun fun fun!!!

I'f I'm using the MK3 waterpump/pulley (mine's shagged) would i need to make the spacer? logic says no, but reality says yes!

Are you leaving the cam cover off?

[Peter Jones]

Hopefully it will all line up for you. I think the MK 3 1800 waterpump pulley has a different offset to the VR6 one I used. The MK 4 pulleys are different again.

I left the belt cover off, I couldn't be bothered trying to make the MK 3 one fit around the MK1 engine mount.

Pete

[Peter Jones]

Just bumping this thread back up again, I've had a few questions of late about this stuff.

OZGTI I've soft deleted your reply as the picture links were broken. Let me know if you want to upload the pics again.

Pete

[ozgti]

Time to go belt shopping!

I cut the old belt and marked it at the extremes of the adjuster range to work out the minimum and maximum lengths it could be.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310761-1.jpg

Armed with this I stopped in at Autobarn (It was on my way when running some other errands) and thouroughly confused a 16 year old girl behind the counter. OK perhaps not the best place to ask.

Repco was a few doors down the road and were a lot more switched on.

Here's the missing part of the equation.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310762-1.jpg

Just so there's no doubt.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310763-1.jpg

6PK is the same profile as the original belt. The other part of the code is the length in mm. The original is 6PK1153 and the new one is 6PK1035, 118mm shorter.

Working backwards from this, this belt is to suit the new Mini and the Lexus es300 should anyone need another way to reference the part number.

GAP is showing this part 6K x 1033 http://www.germanautoparts.com/beta/Mini/2003/R50/B2/9310/5785607 which should do the trick, and for only US$14.24 rather than the AU$41 repco charged me.
Their verison is 2mm shorter, which will work fine. It's a contitech part too, which is the same as OEM Golf.

And here it is all fitted up.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310765-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/P1310766-1.jpg

Hope this helps.

Pete


Hey Pete,

I was thinking about the belt routing. Is the belt supposed to run on the ribs when it's on the water pump pulley? i thought smooth pulleys run the smooth side? I changed it on mine and I now get MORE heat through the heater core! So do i leave it your way with the ribs on the smooth pulley or run it the other way, smooth smooth?

Just a thought.

[Peter Jones]

Yep, ribs are in contact with the pulley. VW themselves did it this way on the non A/C models.

I've done at least a dozen race sessions with this configuration and it's worked perfectly. Still using the same belt too :-)

If you run it on the smooth side your water pump will be turning backwards.

[ozgti]

Crap. Better put it back the other way then!

[Peter Jones]

Five years on from the first post, just thought I'd say that the setup has run fine in all conditions on that belt.

It's done 1000's of km on the race track in all sorts of weather and been completely maintenance free.

[Doesy]

Just read this and it's a cool little conversion. What's involved in grafting a Mk3 motor like this one into a Mk1? Is there a thread with an install documented in it that comes to mind?