mk1 1.9TDI in progress

[mollins]

Hello diesel people.

For those that arent frequently browsing the mk1 forums you may not know im trying to build a TDI mk1.

I'll be keeping the tech chat in this new thread in the diesel section to keep the forum more organised.

I'm using a 1.9 1Z which comes in late 90's mk3, passat, T4 etc in the rest of the world.

The engine was imported without an ECU etc. so Ill be ditching the electronically controlled pump and going with the so called "M-tdi" option which uses the older mechnically controlled Bosch VE pump with a TDI camplate and rotor which bring up the pressure to suit the TDI engine.

I bought an M-tdi ready pump straight from a pump-builder in the US which uses an AAZ (1.9td indirect injection) pump body. This should hopefullly get the 1Z running and then I cant play with governers and timing to get the car running how i want it.

this is the 1Z in all its glory this morning.. after a bit of a tidy up and pulling off all that pesky electronic wiring

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1371-1.jpg

then good bye to the evil electronic controlled injector pump

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1375-1.jpg

this is the 1Z electronic pump on the left, and my rebuilt AAZ (indirect injection 1.9) pump on the right. The AAZ pump has TDI camplate and rotor in it, which makes it able to run higher TDI pressures, but without needing an ECU to run the pump, making this a so-called "M-TDI"

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1377-1.jpg

fitting up the new pump

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1378-1.jpg

here is my cheapo chinese turbo. It's a copy of a k04 turbo. I dont think i'll be using it. Ive got some other options as i have a 4 stud manifold from my 1.6 td which means i can use a k14 or T3. The 1Z came out with the both the k03 or k14 originally.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1380-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1379-1.jpg

Currently held up as I need a new injector pump pulley to fit the AAZ pump. Should be able to get one from the states pretty cheap.

[Preen59]

Love it man. Subscribed... :biggrin:

[mollins]

That was fast preen.
BTW. I fixed my alternator mount problem. I'll show you when it arrives. It will be posted up here :D

[GoLfMan]

awesome!!!! i like where this i going....

say NO to cheap chinese crap!!!! ;)

[Preen59]

That was fast preen.
BTW. I fixed my alternator mount problem. I'll show you when it arrives. It will be posted up here :D

I've got my eye on the ball see... j:

Yeah i'll be interested to have a look. What did you end up going with?

[mollins]

What did you end up going with?

its in the post. patience. time will tell.

[cetane]

Looks good!

How does the M-Tdi pump cope with the reduced compression ratio of the 1.9 ECU controlled motor? Without looking it up, I think it's 19 or so :1 The revised cam plate will alter the volume and perhaps the timing/length of injection.

Also, the injectors are different. What mods are necessary?

There's probably plenty of scope to play around with boost pressure and other turbo tweaks. Are you going to intercool it?

Good to see one of the original VWWA members doing something radical. And even better, including we dieselers in the updates!

[Greg Roles]

Nice work, love to have the time to pull the donk out like you did on the MK5 and mess with it.

Hope you have some decent intercooling ideas to back up all the great work thus far, and allow you the ceiling for said boost pressure tweaking!

Look forward to seeing your progress young oiler:biggrin:

[mollins]

How does the M-Tdi pump cope with the reduced compression ratio of the 1.9 ECU controlled motor? Without looking it up, I think it's 19 or so :1
The revised cam plate will alter the volume and perhaps the timing/length of injection.
Also, the injectors are different. What mods are necessary?


correct, comp ratio is lower at 19.5:1
the pump doesnt have any feedback from the engine, just sets a pressure curve for each injector line. I am using TDI injectors and therefore the breaking pressure will be the same as if it was using a 1z pump. The timing will be the hard bit. I think the direct injection will require me to time the pump differently, but i'll deal with that when I come to it :D



There's probably plenty of scope to play around with boost pressure and other turbo tweaks. Are you going to intercool it?

yes will be intercooled. will be running 10-20psi to start with :biggrin:

[Jarred]

yes will be intercooled. will be running 10-20psi to start with :biggrin:

thats a pretty big range "to start with"

bugger it. go straight for 20psi! hahahaha no don't, gah, im sure you'll figure it out :D

[GoLfMan]

goddam it i wanna see 30psi :D

[gldgti]

the differences between the 1z and aaz (in my mk3) aren't so great, especially in the bottom end, with crank, rods, block all identical. the boost pressure that mike will be able to run is safe enough at 20 (its fine on my aaz), even without an intercooler (though not optimal).

i suspect we may be "dynamically" timing the enine once its running in order to get it going well.

theres lots of fun to come.

[Preen59]

theres lots of fun to come.

I'm on the edge of my seat.. :D

[Volvo Driver]

stick a big intercooler on it and a bigger turbo then that, they are fairly restricted stock.

Your living my dream of a TDi in a Mk1, but I would prefer the electronic pump myself, way easier to work on in general IMO. (based on the bigger stuff I work on)

[mollins]

stick a big intercooler on it and a bigger turbo then that, they are fairly restricted stock.

i have front mount cooler, much better than the stoopid mk3 side setup ... and the turbo will be a K04 which is a fair whack bigger than the standard k03 or k14.



Your living my dream of a TDi in a Mk1, but I would prefer the electronic pump myself, way easier to work on in general IMO. (based on the bigger stuff I work on)

you can have your electronic pump. makes sense with a stock setup car. i had no loom and no ecu. so mechanical it is. plus i like things i can see and adjust and tamper with, none of this chip flashing or laptop-in-car-crap. The Bosch VE pump is an absolutely amazing piece of engineering. The more i play with them the more it blows my mind.

this way, i can remap my fuel and advance curve any day for free!!

[Preen59]

i like things i can see and adjust and tamper with, none of this chip flashing or laptop-in-car-crap.

this way, i can remap my fuel and advance curve any day for free!!

Ahh good to see there are people that think like I do. :biggrin:

[Volvo Driver]

Soon enough though, aftermarket ecu's like Megasquirt will be able to control the electronic pump and then it will be very easy to tune and more accurate too.

I've fiddled with VE pumps at trade school as well as work, not much fun the mechanical ones, not much to adjust either.

[mollins]

not much fun the mechanical ones, not much to adjust either.

apart from almost every part being interchangeable across the VE pump range, and the different governer modifications, and the boost pin angle, and the max fuel screw, and the advance mechanism spring rates, and the stroke of the control lever, and the diffent cam plates. not much really. :biggrin:

btw, i can see the value in the electronic pumps, i'm sure you could get your own perfect map a get power/efficiency increases, but i just dont have the money/experience/bother, to play with all that. My engine will have about 5 wires running to it. And thats it :D. Just the way i like it. Best thing is, if i ever get a computer and want to put the electronic pump back on, i could do it in an hour or two.

[99gti]

I'm curious to know what K03 or K04 they use. The K03 would never be able to sustain that kind of boost and depending on what K04 you use, you would be pushing it at 25psi.

What K04 are you looking to run on it? Any more specs of the turbo? (hmmm, hybrid me thinks :D)

[mollins]

I'm curious to know what K03 or K04 they use. The K03 would never be able to sustain that kind of boost and depending on what K04 you use, you would be pushing it at 25psi.

What K04 are you looking to run on it? Any more specs of the turbo? (hmmm, hybrid me thinks :D)

1Z or AHU (96-99 golf/jetta/passat) uses K03 or T15 i think. The K03 is the 12 blade compressor similar to the standard early 1.8T turbo.

the k04 i have is a cheapo chinese copy with a 2inch turbine dunno what model its copied from. I have also in the post a genuine KKK K04-003 from an izuzu 2.5 of which i hope to use the core only, along with the compressor/turbine housing from the chinese one. This will hopefully make me a frankenturbo which will bolt straight on but have genuine kkk components and not cost a million dollars.

neil, have you found any info on the -003?

i guess i'll see what happens when it arrives.

[mollins]

depending on what K04 you use, you would be pushing it at 25psi.


ps. remember my redline is at 4500rpm .. :bangheadwall:

therefore i need less air to keep the boost up.

[Greg Roles]

1Z or AHU (96-99 golf/jetta/passat) uses K03 or T15 i think. The K03 is the 12 blade compressor similar to the standard early 1.8T turbo.

the k04 i have is a cheapo chinese copy with a 2inch turbine dunno what model its copied from. I have also in the post a genuine KKK K04-003 from an izuzu 2.5 of which i hope to use the core only, along with the compressor/turbine housing from the chinese one. This will hopefully make me a frankenturbo which will bolt straight on but have genuine kkk components and not cost a million dollars.

neil, have you found any info on the -003?

i guess i'll see what happens when it arrives.

I'm loving the tinkering going on here.
You'd make Tim Allen proud.
"Frankenturbo" - love it.

[Volvo Driver]

ps. remember my redline is at 4500rpm .. :bangheadwall:

therefore i need less air to keep the boost up.
Our one revs out to 5, needs more power though, gotta convince dad to fit a decent bar and plate to it :p

Well cam plates and governor mods and spring are a bit more advanced mods then the max fuel screw and boost pin angle. Can't exactly change them without the pump off the vehicle. But yeah it does make it simpler.

[mollins]

Our one revs out to 5, needs more power though, gotta convince dad to fit a decent bar and plate to it :p

nice to know it will go to 5K.
yeah the stock coolers are tiny. would make a reasonable difference i reckon. Its a shame theres not much space in the front of a mk3!


Can't exactly change them without the pump off the vehicle.
that wont stop me! :D

[mollins]

ok.. so the story is.. i have a chinese turbo. its a K04 copy made by the reputable manufacturer "YEQI". Definitely my favourite brand!

anyways, its crap. So.. Aydan found a real K04 on the net for 300 bucks. so i bought it. Its a genuine 3K K04-003 from a chrysler 2.5.

here are the two turbos side by side
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1381-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1382-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1383-1.jpg

the problem is, that the turbine inlet on the new turbo doesnt match my exhaust manifold. so... we pulled off the turbine housings to see what we could see

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1390-1.jpg
here they are again side by side
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1391-1.jpg

They looked pretty similar, so all we had to do was swap the turbine housings!!

almost..

the problem was that the turbine blades were just a smidgen taller at the outer diameter on the 3K turbo, which meant the blades contacted the casing from the YEQI. so... we used the backing plate from the YEQI.. with a bit of modification:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1397-1.jpg

we got this!

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1398-1.jpg

which when placed under the turbine housing, gave the perfect clearance for the turbine wheel!

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1399-1.jpg


a quick test fit:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1401-1.jpg

then to mount the wastegate actuator. had to tap some holes on the 3K turbo. then:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1404-1.jpg

[mollins]

its alive!!!!

FRANKEN TURBO:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/DSCF1406-1.jpg

[Jarred]

Nice one. Hope it all holds together! Wouldn't want to see half a turbo flying through the bonnet...:frown:

well, a small part of me would, but that's for another day :D

[smithy010]

That would be well wicked!

Note to self: Carry video camera wherever you go..

I have total faith in Mike and Aydan's Franken turbo expertise.

[GoLfMan]

nice one mate, as Jarred said i hope that housing is good quality :o
you guys are the ultimate DIY's!! :D

[gldgti]

I have total faith in Mike and Aydan's Franken turbo expertise.

admittedly, there is no exper(ience)tise to be had here... but both of us are mechanical engineers, and both of us agreed that there should be no reason for anything bad to happen.

FAMOUS LAST WORDS :-D

[Jarred]

and quoted...:D:D

[mollins]

have posted this in the performance/tuning section (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=18077) but it will go here also for completeness.

WHen I recieved the engine it had no alternator, but it had all the other serpentine pulleys. So it seemed like a waste to go back to a V belt.

I had a problem finding an alternator setup that would clear the injector pump. I believe this is also an issue for some 16v people who want to run carbs or ITBs.

so...

i bought a bracket from the US ABF with no aircon.

this is a tidy little unit which allows the alternator to sit beautifully under the pump. no tensioner to hit on the mk1 chassis either!

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/DSCF1385-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/DSCF1384-1.jpg

with my sexy new alternator!

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/DSCF1387-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/DSCF1388-1.jpg

lines up nicely

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/09/DSCF1389-1.jpg

now i need to chase down a short enough 6PK belt (around 915mm long)

I bought these from INA engineering in the states.

found his info here (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3494636&postid=43335383)

more info on brackets for 16v's

[Preen59]

Thats the bracket i'm after! Info please! (PM me. :) )

When you guys are done i'm going to HOUND you for info when i build a S/CDI. ;)

Love your work. :biggrin:

[mollins]

Thats the bracket i'm after! Info please!


so the info is available publically:

basically, I just emailed the guy from INA engineering.
Just ask for a quote for the parts you want. He can supply the bracket and a brand new 90amp alternator, bolts, belts, standard pulleys and lightened pulleys.

all the info is on this vortex page:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3494636&postid=43335383

Flick him an email, hes very easy to deal with and replies promptly, regardless of the time difference. I paid him via paypal.

Postage is the biggest killer. But its such a nice setup i reckon its worth it. Sadly the AUD isnt going as well as it was when I bought mine.

If anymore info is need just ask.

Hope this helps you preen!

cheers

mike

[mollins]

okey dokey

so i finally tracked down my tricky-to-find parts.

this was a pulley for my injector pump and some new head bolts.

Parts should be here within a week!

FYI Ive pulled the head so I could clean the inlet ports of all the crappy oil sludge. New gasket and bolts will be nice too!

Then Its ready to be assembled!! :)

in other news.. I have purchased a certain something which will greatly shorten the length of this project. more details soon. :biggrin:

[smithy010]

Hmmm... you bought a slave, didn't you!

Hope he's a good one.