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WABIT
28-07-2008, 04:37 PM
ok guys, id love some info on comparing performance of the 16v engines, both 1.8 and 2.0 sizes, also just another thing, please no comments on other peoples comments and inputs, this is just a personal experience thread and what YOU have learnt from both engines

ok guys id love to hear your input

cheers

dom

velly_16v_cab
28-07-2008, 04:42 PM
ok, what do you want to know lol.....

there is a great 2.0 16v thread on clubgti.com/forum in the engine section

Preen59
28-07-2008, 04:46 PM
Finally! :biggrin:

Hey Velly, copy any useful info and post it here if you could! (Pretty please?) :)

Edit: Thanks for starting this thread Dom. It'll be a good, informative read for me, and everyone else that's interested.

Although i don't think there is a large amount of people in aus that have experimented with 16v's?

99gti
28-07-2008, 05:10 PM
My experience with Carls 16v is that it is quick!






That is all...

velly_16v_cab
28-07-2008, 05:26 PM
trust me, it is work signing up on the clubgti forum just to get involved with 16v talk.
2.0 16v on k-jet is one of the main set ups.
the thread on there is way way too long to copy and paste.

A few of us have uk contacts, we should be using these to help get more 16vs over here.

Preen59
28-07-2008, 05:39 PM
My experience with Carls 16v is that it is quick!






That is all...

Nothing on mine though..

(I hope! :duh:):biggrin:

WABIT
28-07-2008, 08:00 PM
i actually heard 1.8's are better than 2.0lt from take off

dom

velly_16v_cab
28-07-2008, 10:16 PM
you heard wrong....check out the golf + 16v shoot out which i took part in.

2.0 16v is king :biggrin:

WABIT
29-07-2008, 07:04 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

witch issue?

dom

velly_16v_cab
29-07-2008, 07:37 AM
July 2005

13 car group test.

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v250/199/12/683516924/n683516924_645589_2966.jpg

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v250/199/12/683516924/n683516924_645586_1934.jpg

the day ended badly for me with a blown head gasket :brutal:

evorobin
29-07-2008, 09:39 AM
Gary valver in the house. His 16v build was very sad :brutal:

velly_16v_cab
29-07-2008, 10:02 AM
Gary Bocking's 2.1 16v???
yes that ended pretty sad, I didnt full follow what went wrong...naff oil pump or something wrote off the engine! :frown:

evorobin
29-07-2008, 10:10 AM
I only read some of the 35 pages but yeah it all ended in tears. TBH I thought the video showed it as way too cammy for road use but hey...

Bug_racer
29-07-2008, 10:33 AM
Can someone tell me what all the hype is on this forum in regards to the 16V engine ?

According to these results :
http://www.carspecsdirectory.com/Volkswagen.htm
No 16V car stock managed a sub 16 sec pass

and looking at this comparison :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwh8dP-gD50

the 8 V is only a tad slower than the 16v .

Those who have done a 16V conversion , why did you choose this engine over say a VR6 or a 1.8t or even modifying the 8v ?

Im not interested in what is done O/S to these engines , cause in the UK they are probably a dime a dozen . Im interested in performance figures here in Aus and costs as well . And if they really are that quick , why havent I seen any go to the drags (apart from H8SV8S , but that car was nuts :) ) .

Im happy to use the Seat 8v as a comparison car if anyone is interested :)

velly_16v_cab
29-07-2008, 10:54 AM
in stock form a 1.8 16v is a touch faster than an 1.8 8v

mod it to 2.0 and the 16v is a far better engine. esp for track or 1/4miles.

throw lots of money at a 2.0 8v and you will see mid 150bhp
throw little money at a 2.0 16v and you will see 170+ bhp

so why 16v over VR6 or 20v T.

1, a 16v is a cheap upgrade to a mk1 or mk2
2, replacment engines are cheap
3, upgrades are cheap


of course all this is based from back in the uk, its abit hard sourcing 16v engines here.:frown:

WABIT
29-07-2008, 04:28 PM
in stock form a 1.8 16v is a touch faster than an 1.8 8v

mod it to 2.0 and the 16v is a far better engine. esp for track or 1/4miles.

throw lots of money at a 2.0 8v and you will see mid 150bhp
throw little money at a 2.0 16v and you will see 170+ bhp

so why 16v over VR6 or 20v T.

1, a 16v is a cheap upgrade to a mk1 or mk2
2, replacment engines are cheap
3, upgrades are cheap


of course all this is based from back in the uk, its abit hard sourcing 16v engines here.:frown:


all of this was exactly why i went 16v

dom

velly_16v_cab
29-07-2008, 04:40 PM
and you gone 2.0 havent you dom??? if so well done.

Preen59
29-07-2008, 05:18 PM
Screw 2.0.

1.9 all the way! :biggrin:

Preen59
29-07-2008, 05:20 PM
Now that we're over that crap..

Exhausts.. Tell me what is the best option. :)

I've heard that the cast mani with good secondaries works well and i've heard extractors are far better. So please, i'd like to hear some advice. :)

ausgolfer
29-07-2008, 05:33 PM
Screw 2.0.

1.9 all the way! :biggrin:

I hear that and I want that ;)


Now that we're over that crap..

Exhausts.. Tell me what is the best option. :)

I've heard that the cast mani with good secondaries works well and i've heard extractors are far better. So please, i'd like to hear some advice. :)

Only experience is that the cast manifold on a KR is pretty decent as far as standard manifolds go. Mustn't have been cheap to produce.

A good set of extractors will gain around 8-10% from just about every golf magazine I've read.

PS was yours a KR to start with Preeny?

velly_16v_cab
29-07-2008, 05:47 PM
Ashley 16-valve 4 branch manifold and a something like a 2" or 2.5" diameter bore system

my 16v runs a 4 branch manifold (make unknow) and a little 1.75" dimeter system (for the OME look)

Preen59
29-07-2008, 07:56 PM
I hear that and I want that ;)



Only experience is that the cast manifold on a KR is pretty decent as far as standard manifolds go. Mustn't have been cheap to produce.

A good set of extractors will gain around 8-10% from just about every golf magazine I've read.

PS was yours a KR to start with Preeny?

10%? That's well worth it!

Yep KR dude.

Preen59
29-07-2008, 07:57 PM
Ashley 16-valve 4 branch manifold and a something like a 2" or 2.5" diameter bore system

my 16v runs a 4 branch manifold (make unknow) and a little 1.75" dimeter system (for the OME look)

What sort of dosh to get one to aus? I was thinking 2.25 or 2.5 inch exhaust.

velly_16v_cab
29-07-2008, 09:18 PM
something i will look into.
got a few plans about importing stuff. (16v stuff):)

Preen59
29-07-2008, 09:26 PM
something i will look into.
got a few plans about importing stuff. (16v stuff):)

Who's the man?

YOU'RE THE MAN, Velly. :)

evorobin
29-07-2008, 09:44 PM
cast manifold on a KR is pretty decent as far as standard manifolds go. Mustn't have been cheap to produce.

A good set of extractors will gain around 8-10% from just about every golf magazine I've read.

PS was yours a KR to start with Preeny?

Strange I've heard headers/extractors do jack. I've got a 2.25 exhaust and would happily fork out $$$ for a performance gain!

Brisben
30-07-2008, 06:56 AM
Strange I've heard headers/extractors do jack. I've got a 2.25 exhaust and would happily fork out $$$ for a performance gain!

You also need to have a good air delivery to support the new exhaust capabilities.

Exatractors do work, you can feel the difference, but it is not as good if you have a poo intake.

velly_16v_cab
30-07-2008, 07:36 AM
Who's the man?

YOU'RE THE MAN, Velly. :)

easy tiger, not got anything over here yet lol....



4 branch Manifolds (Exatractors) make one hell of a difference!
Esp at the top end where a 16v tends to live most of it life.
My mates 2.0 16v GTI Egnineering jetta had a polished and ported standard cast manifold and he was told that will do him. After alot of playing about he later changed it for Ashley manifold and gained 10BHP @ wheels and broke the 190bhp @ flywheel.
He now fits them to all this 16vs builds (he has since built 2 mk1 16v's)

Valver.
30-07-2008, 07:43 PM
You also need to have a good air delivery to support the new exhaust capabilities.

Exatractors do work, you can feel the difference, but it is not as good if you have a poo intake.


Doesn't really make much difference. You can't get much more air into a 16v without changing the intake manifold entirely - and even then it's not worth the effort.

They are crap engine design for an NA motor. They just develop good torque and sound great ;)

Preen59
30-07-2008, 08:07 PM
Doesn't really make much difference. You can't get much more air into a 16v without changing the intake manifold entirely - and even then it's not worth the effort.

They are crap engine design for an NA motor. They just develop good torque and sound great ;)

They aren't total crap... Just a long stroke which negates too much peak horsepower. :)

velly_16v_cab
30-07-2008, 08:15 PM
lol, Valver, not everyone can afford turbos!!!!


yes breathing on a valver is important,good flowing inlet manifold and ported inlets on the head.

180-190bhp should be ball park for a sorted 2.0 16v

twin eng, twin turbs
30-07-2008, 08:28 PM
10%? That's well worth it!

Yep KR dude.

I told you ages ago that the cast exhaust manifold is good but a set of 4-1 extractors are going to yield gains over it. Especially considering you want to race yours bro!

Preen59
30-07-2008, 08:30 PM
lol, Valver, not everyone can afford turbos!!!!

And some people don't want one either.. :biggrin:

Turbo, Shmurbo.. :moonie:

aprr32
30-07-2008, 09:19 PM
4 branch Manifolds (Exatractors) make one hell of a difference!
Esp at the top end where a 16v tends to live most of it life.
My mates 2.0 16v GTI Egnineering jetta had a polished and ported standard cast manifold and he was told that will do him. After alot of playing about he later changed it for Ashley manifold and gained 10BHP @ wheels and broke the 190bhp @ flywheel.
He now fits them to all this 16vs builds (he has since built 2 mk1 16v's)[/QUOTE]

You don't get BHP at the wheels,it's at the fly.

velly_16v_cab
30-07-2008, 10:06 PM
160 bhp @wheels

ps, the is currently @ the nurburgring with a broken clutch...has been there since october!!!!

Preen59
30-07-2008, 10:10 PM
160 bhp @wheels

ps, the is currently @ the nurburgring with a broken clutch...has been there since october!!!!

Price of getting to drive it huh!

ausgolfer
31-07-2008, 12:05 AM
They are crap engine design for an NA motor. They just develop good torque and sound great ;)

Sounds like a quote by Drake or Oettinger when they were trying to market their aftermarket heads to the performance VW crowd.

The reality is they're a good compromise and nothing wrong with them in terms of tunability.

Valver.
31-07-2008, 07:03 AM
They aren't total crap... Just a long stroke which negates too much peak horsepower. :)

I love them as much or more than anyone, but they really aren't anything special in the scheme of things :( The head is just a nightmare. I'd love to drive a Drake or Oettinger version, as I'm sure they're an entirely different story :D

Just because you're a fan of something doesn't mean its design is ideal... look at all the clowns obsessing over old Fords and Holdens - heck, even the new ones are junk.

Edit: And re the turbo quip, the only reason I have money (relatively speaking...) is because I probably work 30hrs a week more than anyone else on this forum to do so!!! ;) And, even so, turboing one isn't ideal either; it's just that I love these engines regardless of their design. My point was merely that they are not well designed by modern (and even some 30yr old) standards - and pure and simple, they're not. Cut one of the heads in half and have a look - the exhaust ports are a joke. So many people claim to have big hp na 16vs with stock/near stock heads, and that is bollocks. The head cannot flow more than 180hp (even that is pushing it) without a lot of work. Turboing one only bypasses some of this problem for obvious reasons, but a 16vT with a worked head will still make far more power than one without.

The Opel C20XE (direct competition to the ABF) makes nearly 100hp/litre with throttle bodies alone. I won't even raise some of the Jap options. I wouldn't like to own any of these engines, but that isn't the point ;)

twin eng, twin turbs
31-07-2008, 07:51 PM
Your right valver, i have ported and polished quite a few different heads and the VW 16v is good but some of the jap gear of the era puts it to shame unfortunately. sr20's, ca18's, b16 etc. A standard 16v does gain considerable power from porting and polishing especially when you get oversize undercut valves and a set of cams to suit your application. I havn't heard of anyone making more than 180bhp with a stock head, claims are one thing a dyno print out is another..... As far as the 1.8 kr being a better choice over the 2.0litre 9a or abf due to the shorter stroke i would chose the 2.0 without hesitation the extra low end torque makes for a far more enjoyable daily driver and when you lighten, balance and knife edge the crank combined with a lightened flywheel they love to rev and will allways make more power than a 1.8! Thats why the vast majority of serious tuners chose the 2.0 litre....

Preen59
31-07-2008, 08:11 PM
All very true comments, and in a straight out and out performance comparison, yes, the old 16v would get flogged.

But the fact is, we aren't racing these engines in a very restricted class and horsepower is only beneficial to a point.

This thread was started so that we could discuss the 16v engine in terms of performance modifications, general servicing etc.

So let's not get into a discussion about how bad the engine's design is or the fact that a 10 year newer engine has a better design. :duh:

:)

WABIT
31-07-2008, 09:04 PM
yep, its a thread about make do with what you got! it is said on many build projects in the uk that a 9a with KR cams is said to put out inbetween 160 and 165HP

dom

16v80
01-08-2008, 02:39 AM
Audi A4 btcc touring cars had 2L 16v engines in them 96 on I think,
depending on the year these were either 295 or 305 BHP,
These engines are N/A,
From what i can find out they are basically 6A engines, solid lifters, big cams, throttle bodies, they produce max power at @8500rpm,
In my opinion these are the ultimate 16v engine, imagine this in a stripped mk1/2 gti:biggrin:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171575705-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171574543-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171575840-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171576126-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171744555-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041166550618-1.jpg

Valver.
01-08-2008, 07:06 AM
This thread was started so that we could discuss the 16v engine in terms of performance modifications, general servicing etc.

So let's not get into a discussion about how bad the engine's design is or the fact that a 10 year newer engine has a better design. :duh:

:)


lol, yes fair point :D

Valver.
01-08-2008, 07:10 AM
yep, its a thread about make do with what you got! it is said on many build projects in the uk that a 9a with KR cams is said to put out inbetween 160 and 165HP

dom

In reality, they'd have about 140/145hp - perhaps less now that they're so old :)

velly_16v_cab
01-08-2008, 07:47 AM
you will get that from a STD 1.8 KR valver,

155-160 for a std 2.0 would be ball park, i think Dom is on the right track :)

aliasmk2
01-08-2008, 10:10 AM
All very true comments, and in a straight out and out performance comparison, yes, the old 16v would get flogged.

But the fact is, we aren't racing these engines in a very restricted class and horsepower is only beneficial to a point.

This thread was started so that we could discuss the 16v engine in terms of performance modifications, general servicing etc.

So let's not get into a discussion about how bad the engine's design is or the fact that a 10 year newer engine has a better design. :duh:

:)
Its all knowledge guys, you have to take the good with the bad

twin eng, twin turbs
01-08-2008, 04:24 PM
Audi A4 btcc touring cars had 2L 16v engines in them 96 on I think,
depending on the year these were either 295 or 305 BHP,
These engines are N/A,
From what i can find out they are basically 6A engines, solid lifters, big cams, throttle bodies, they produce max power at @8500rpm,
In my opinion these are the ultimate 16v engine, imagine this in a stripped mk1/2 gti:biggrin:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171575705-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171574543-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171575840-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171576126-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041171744555-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/07/post24041166550618-1.jpg

That 16v is sex on wheels! omg. looks like slide throttle bodies aswell!

revnit
01-08-2008, 04:50 PM
Being the the Official 16v thread thought id ask a question im running a 2.0l 16V (Audi 9A 2.0l bottom end with VW 16v head) im after a new timing belt does anyone have a part number for a timing belt??? (beats taking it off and sending to my parts guy)

Im running K-Jet, lighten fly, custom extractors, altered cam timing and 50mm intake and all it does is spin wheels i put in a locked diff still spins wheels 3rd gear is where i get traction and changes lanes in the process :biggrin: back yard tuning has worked good so far like to dyno it to see some numbers.

WABIT
01-08-2008, 06:44 PM
may we see some pictures!!!!!!

DOM

16v80
01-08-2008, 09:10 PM
Being the the Official 16v thread thought id ask a question im running a 2.0l 16V (Audi 9A 2.0l bottom end with VW 16v head) im after a new timing belt does anyone have a part number for a timing belt??? (beats taking it off and sending to my parts guy)

Im running K-Jet, lighten fly, custom extractors, altered cam timing and 50mm intake and all it does is spin wheels i put in a locked diff still spins wheels 3rd gear is where i get traction and changes lanes in the process :biggrin: back yard tuning has worked good so far like to dyno it to see some numbers.

Thats the same as what I run, (fly, exhaust, timing) except mine has twin 45 Dellorto's, and I use the early ecu, supposed to have a more aggresive timing curve.

not that it matters much but the Audi is 6A not 9A,(9A is passat/corrado)

The part number for the belt is 027 109 119 C (25mm x 1176mm)
I would replace the tensioner aswell, Part number 051 109 243

Hope that helps
Ian

evorobin
01-08-2008, 09:52 PM
4 branch Manifolds (Exatractors) make one hell of a difference!
Esp at the top end where a 16v tends to live most of it life.
My mates 2.0 16v GTI Egnineering jetta had a polished and ported standard cast manifold and he was told that will do him. After alot of playing about he later changed it for Ashley manifold and gained 10BHP @ wheels and broke the 190bhp @ flywheel.
He now fits them to all this 16vs builds (he has since built 2 mk1 16v's)

http://www.ashleyexhausts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=5205_1163_1240_1274&products_id=1411382

http://affilate.potn.com/images/ashley/imashleymanifold03.jpg

Anyone else fancy 16v header group purchase? :biggrin:

WABIT
01-08-2008, 10:02 PM
im definetly in for that 100%

get in contact evorobin!!!!

dom

Preen59
01-08-2008, 10:09 PM
No radial firing order???

ausgolfer
01-08-2008, 11:28 PM
No radial firing order???

Do you mean tuned lenghts.
Never heard it put that way. But I imagine they're not just bunged together any lengths.

And YES WHEN AND HOW MUCH??:biggrin:

roccodingo
01-08-2008, 11:43 PM
Thats the same as what I run, (fly, exhaust, timing) except mine has twin 45 Dellorto's, and I use the early ecu, supposed to have a more aggresive timing curve.


Ian

You need to bring that out of the woodwork Ian, where you hiding in perth man :biggrin:

Preen59
01-08-2008, 11:58 PM
Do you mean tuned lenghts.
Never heard it put that way. But I imagine they're not just bunged together any lengths.

And YES WHEN AND HOW MUCH??:biggrin:

No, i mean radial collector. In the order of 1,3,4,2. One after the other.. :)

http://www.techtonicstuning.com/images/interface/13.jpg


Oh, and i need a short block 16v one to suit a Mk1.. :D

Valver.
02-08-2008, 07:31 AM
you will get that from a STD 1.8 KR valver,

155-160 for a std 2.0 would be ball park, i think Dom is on the right track :)


You'd be surprised if you put an old, unrebuilt 9a with KR or ABF cams on an engine dyno. Not only are the cams alone not worth a 20bhp+ increase (you don't get that in peak figures moving from PL/9a cams to Schrick 260s), an engine with a quarter of a million kms already won't make its standard output.

Fair enough a lot of the UK cars "have" blaring hp figures, but no one has used a proper engine dyno, and I'm sure if someone was to put a genuine, fresh 160/170/180hp engine in their car, they'd be very surprised.

A 172hp Clio has miles more grunt than some of the VW 16vs I've driven claiming similar outputs - same, too, with the 168hp B16A Honda, which has far less torque. I'd be more inclined to believe a 15 millio dollar factory dyno than "Vince @ Stealth" with regard to how much power my engine had j:

Not intended to be a blunt post, but if people are to learn from this thread, let's a least be a bit realistic about how much power is reasonably achievable on all but a massive budget :)

And even so, 16vs are nice to drive for their torque figures, which can be boosted up nicely in the mid-range with tuning... far more important in a road car with sensible gearing and speed limits.

GoLfMan
02-08-2008, 08:13 AM
so basically are you saying a hot 8v can achieve nearly the same amount of HP for less dollars?

Valver.
02-08-2008, 08:31 AM
so basically are you saying a hot 8v can achieve nearly the same amount of HP for less dollars?


A hot, well setup 1.8/2.0 8v could definitely challenge a higher mileage, standard 9a 16v IMO, yes :) It's all a bit subjective still, though!!

EDIT: But tuning the 8v to do so would cost more than a reasonable 16v swap...

h100vw
02-08-2008, 08:45 AM
http://www.ashleyexhausts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=5205_1163_1240_1274&products_id=1411382

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

Anyone else fancy 16v header group purchase? :biggrin:

This isn't actually a manifold for any VW that I know of.

I have built a MK1 16V using one of their manifold, that was in 1996 and I don't think the price has gone up since then!!

They don't look like a Supersprint but do the job for less money.

Gavin

Preen59
02-08-2008, 10:08 AM
Not intended to be a blunt post, but if people are to learn from this thread, let's a least be a bit realistic about how much power is reasonably achievable on all but a massive budget :)

And even so, 16vs are nice to drive for their torque figures, which can be boosted up nicely in the mid-range with tuning... far more important in a road car with sensible gearing and speed limits.

Thanks for keeping it real, Stu. :)

By the way, what HP and torque @ what RPMS did your tall block in that seat have, if i wouldn't by prying to ask?

evorobin
02-08-2008, 12:57 PM
This isn't actually a manifold for any VW that I know of.

I have built a MK1 16V using one of their manifold, that was in 1996 and I don't think the price has gone up since then!!

They don't look like a Supersprint but do the job for less money.

Gavin

Agree that pic is pants probably for a cortina lol

I am getting some prices together.

Preen59
02-08-2008, 02:14 PM
Agree that pic is pants probably for a cortina lol

I am getting some prices together.

Awesome. I'm in.

Aslong as you can find an actual pic of the right set. I'm thinking the set shown is for a Honda maybe?

Preen59
02-08-2008, 02:35 PM
By the way Stu, here's my head, Ports mostly finished. Awaiting the seats getting cut and the throat opened up for the bigger valves.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

What do you think?

GoLfMan
02-08-2008, 06:45 PM
A hot, well setup 1.8/2.0 8v could definitely challenge a higher mileage, standard 9a 16v IMO, yes :) It's all a bit subjective still, though!!

EDIT: But tuning the 8v to do so would cost more than a reasonable 16v swap...

awesome!!!

it wouldnt cost more if you did all the work yourself ;)

Preen59
02-08-2008, 06:47 PM
awesome!!!

it wouldnt cost more if you did all the work yourself ;)

He's saying a tired, standard 16v engine might be worse than a fresh, worked 8v... Why not just bash a set of rings and maybe pistons depending on wear in a 16v?

Valver.
02-08-2008, 08:09 PM
He's saying a tired, standard 16v engine might be worse than a fresh, worked 8v...

Yep, that's exactly what I meant :)

Preen59
02-08-2008, 08:49 PM
Yep, that's exactly what I meant :)

Hehe, great minds think alike. :)

Valver.
02-08-2008, 09:11 PM
By the way Stu, here's my head, Ports mostly finished. Awaiting the seats getting cut and the throat opened up for the bigger valves.

What do you think?

Looks good - anything's an improvement :)

Here is a 9a head we cut in half. Look at the angle of the exhaust valve in relation to the port, and also the ridge protruding into the intake port (one of the first ports of call with head work... no pun intended!)

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/16vHeadCut1-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/16vHeadCut-1.jpg

My Dbilas head using an early ADL (European 1.8 16v Ibiza with Digifant) casting with narrow ridged intake port:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/head4-1.jpg

Chambers polished up to prevent carbon build up:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/16vheadworkgood-1.jpg

Intake ports left coarse for good mix-up

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/08/Ported1816v-1.jpg

Valver.
02-08-2008, 09:17 PM
You can see that the exhaust side is basically exiting at a 90deg angle, but then if you open it up too much, you lose a lot of bottom end... stuck either way really. The sharp-cornered lip just off the valve seat can be smoothed right over within reason, but it's quite hard when the head isn't in two pieces like the one above!! I can't speak from experience - never done one myself, just had the process explained to me to justify a big expense (!) - but they say it's a very hard head to work on, which is easy to see with the cross section pics.

Other problem is that the exhaust valve is too big in relation to the intake valve (according to theory anyway), which is why you go up 2mm to 34mm on the intake, but only up .5mm to 28.5mm on the exhaust when going to bigger valves :)

Preen59
02-08-2008, 09:32 PM
You can see that the exhaust side is basically exiting at a 90deg angle, but then if you open it up too much, you lose a lot of bottom end... stuck either way really. The sharp-cornered lip just off the valve seat can be smoothed right over within reason, but it's quite hard when the head isn't in two pieces like the one above!! I can't speak from experience - never done one myself, just had the process explained to me to just a big expense (!) - but they say it's a very hard head to work on, which is easy to see with the cross section pics.

Other problem is that the exhaust valve is too big in relation to the intake valve (according to theory anyway), which is why you go up 2mm to 34mm on the intake, but only up .5mm to 28.5mm on the exhaust when going to bigger valves :)

Yeah bonk made that comment about the exhaust, but from what i understand he's done what he can to improve that within reason. He's removed all the lips etc and once the seats are cut he'll finish it off properly.

What comp ratio did you run with your ibiza?

I'm thinking 11:1 for mine, but i'd like to get some input from people who have used the same engine.

Water Boy
02-08-2008, 09:35 PM
I think if its all out 16v action: ITB's :biggrin: or some forced indcution.

But the roar on N/A power is the ducks nuts if u got the coin :driver:

Preen59
02-08-2008, 09:42 PM
I think if its all out 16v action: ITB's :biggrin: or some forced indcution.

But the roar on N/A power is the ducks nuts if u got the coin :driver:

Stuff ITB's. Who wants to plug a laptop in to change the Mixture? NOT ME!!

I've got 45DCOEs. All i need is a screw driver, a jet box, and my arse!

Water Boy
03-08-2008, 07:43 PM
Nah gota love the plug n play :biggrin:

Preen59
03-08-2008, 07:58 PM
Nah gota love the plug n play :biggrin:

How about we just agree to disagree then.. ;)

Valver.
03-08-2008, 08:19 PM
Nah gota love the plug n play :biggrin:

There ain't nothin' plug and play with standalone on a European car, let me tell you!!

Tim
03-08-2008, 08:21 PM
I think with euro cars its called plug an pay $$$$$$

Valver.
03-08-2008, 08:29 PM
I think with euro cars its called plug an pay $$$$$$


LOL!! j: :D

Jarred
03-08-2008, 09:18 PM
wasn't it plug and pray??

Water Boy
03-08-2008, 10:12 PM
Pull all that junk off and fix it with some true Aussie stuff MoTeC

WABIT
03-08-2008, 10:16 PM
too expencive for the street, autronic's is the *****!!!! very tuneable

dom

Valver.
04-08-2008, 06:56 AM
Pull all that junk off and fix it with some true Aussie stuff MoTeC


There's no point fitting a MoTec to anything but a race car. The only real advantage (over an SM4) is the huge datalogging potential (and the Motec dash), which no one needs in a road car!

The carbs will be awesome :)

Preen59
04-08-2008, 04:37 PM
The carbs will be awesome :)

Damn straight. ^^ See, there's an unbiased opinion you tech fan boys. :nana:

You guys are just scared of carbies cause you have to go by feel with little to no electronic gear to tell you what to do.. :duh:

:)

Water Boy
04-08-2008, 08:57 PM
There's no point fitting a MoTec to anything but a race car. The only real advantage (over an SM4) is the huge datalogging potential (and the Motec dash), which no one needs in a road car!

The carbs will be awesome :)

100% if its all out... MoTeC would be an over kill for the street but many do it. The dashes are excellent and the new sports dash has a back light so thats on my shopping list.

jayjay
24-11-2008, 04:19 PM
re-opening.

hey preen, what's your overbore on the kr block?

also, where did you get your pistons from?

ps, megasquirt ftw! j:

Preen59
24-11-2008, 09:07 PM
re-opening.

hey preen, what's your overbore on the kr block?

also, where did you get your pistons from?

ps, megasquirt ftw! j:

82.5mm pistons. Got em from Techtonics Tuning. They ripped me off though! Still looking to sell them if you're interested! :)

F*ck mega squirt. :nana:

Valver.
25-11-2008, 05:41 AM
F*ck mega squirt. :nana:

X 2 - real ECU or Webers. MS is a half-arsed POS :D

GoLfMan
25-11-2008, 06:03 AM
Webers ftw!!! :D

velly_16v_cab
25-11-2008, 06:56 AM
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v273/199/12/683516924/n683516924_712485_9388.jpg


i do miss my carbs :duh:

Preen59
25-11-2008, 08:33 PM
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/


i do miss my carbs :duh:

Nice tidy setup, Velly. 40s? Have decent bottom-mid with those short ram tubes?

16v80
26-11-2008, 01:17 AM
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/11/S4010036-2.jpg

Pic of my 2L 16v on 45 Dellorto's

velly_16v_cab
26-11-2008, 06:40 AM
yes it was a 1.8kr with twin 40's.....170 bhp / 140lb torque
i blow the bottom end (lack of oil! :duh: ) on a rolling road.
found out later i had a wiring problem, re wired the ecu and got more power! gutted we never found that when it ran the carbs :frown:

still, one of the best sounds in the world is a 16v on carbs at 7000rpm!

and massive flames out of the exhaust hehehe

GoLfMan
26-11-2008, 10:09 AM
its one of the sexiest and cleanest looking set ups the 16v on carbs.... and the sound, drool worthy! :D

16v_kid
29-12-2008, 05:31 PM
i love 16v:bowdown:

Volksee77
05-02-2010, 12:35 AM
I Have put Bildon ITB's on my KR 16V but have left the motor @ 1.8L to remain eligable under cams tarmac classifications and am currently sourcing a Techtonics race header. My car is built at 11.5:1 comp and runs a haltech E6x computer and coil packs so i can use the 9" booster and 24mm master cylinder with 288mm vr6 brakes. only started it briefly due to no exhaust but looking forward to a bench dyno session to get a basic tune before pulling the ol stroked 1.8 (worked) 8V i have rallied with

Volksee77
05-02-2010, 12:36 AM
anyone here know what throttle bodies that sic Audi touring car had, i would pay mega bucks for that awesome setup

jayjay
05-02-2010, 01:40 AM
how i wish i had a crossflow motor. :rolleyes:

velly_16v_cab
05-02-2010, 12:00 PM
anyone here know what throttle bodies that sic Audi touring car had, i would pay mega bucks for that awesome setup

look on the clubgti forum and there is a massive thread about the 300bhp 2.0L 16v BTCC set up

Volksee77
05-02-2010, 06:56 PM
awesome i'm there!

mikinoz
20-03-2010, 08:24 PM
So I have a KR digifant conversion 16V and the blue temp sensor is not removable due to the intake being in the way. There is an adaptor available from BBM to space it out, has anyone used another solution? I don't want to pony US$50 for the spacer if I don't have to.

Preen59
27-12-2010, 10:15 PM
Bump for a good thread.. :)